Guild Wars 2

Rather than a single thread? It’s not feasible to dump the ‘feedback’ from everyone in a thousand-post thread.

kirito.4138:

Actually, anet wanted to remove rank completely…. but our awesome community revolted against it, and not we are stuck with the current ranks of little meaning.

they didn’t want unfounded elitism… so they thought no recognition was a better option…. in an MMO PvP game XD

Django.5923:

if you need a carrot. Everquest next will do it better

Everquest next is still too far off though

Darnis.4056:

Isn’t this like a mediation guard’s wetdream ? :/
…..wait where does he get hp from though? 9k hp pool ? k lol

A: It’s 10k :p

B: actually meditation gaurd doesn’t scale much with HP. Altruistic symbols on the other hand.. the trolling would be real….

Edit: C: Despite everything I still can’t spell guard.

Class balance is fine. The builds the game is balanced around aren’t.

Think about it.

oO

A power meta shouldn’t rely on an OP sigil to bring classes into line 1v1. Balance the game around castable skills, because air sigils, and to a lesser extend fire, just flatten the combat experience. It’s just so subtle visibly that only a build which can actively abuse the IC mechanic so heavily (s/d) gets put into the spotlight.

Given the average IQ of this sub-forum, I think you can forgive me for not appreciating the underlying sarcasm behind the OPs bad suggestions XD

shimmerless.4560:

Phaeton.9582:

You’re really suggesting more tooltip changes?

Oh, not at all muffin, I’m suggesting that they follow the lead taken with Illusionary Leap and change the skill to match the tooltip. I know, I know — sounds like a lot of work compared to just rewriting tooltips, but that’s why we’re here to help support our devs in getting their ‘vision’ of the game on track.

If they did that it would change gameplay completely though… Many skills (such as the eles dragon tooth) get just as much use with no target as with one selected. I don’t see how it would benefit the game to make these skills specifically require a target in order to activate…

Also I like muffins.

You’re really suggesting more tooltip changes?

Sword MH on med guard isn’t at all meta though, might want to switch that one up.

Static.9841:

KarsaiB.9475:

Static.9841:

Fraelin.7409:

My main problem with this S/D build is the damage it can put out when it has 0 points in critical strikes.

OK, I’m going to stop you right there.

How about how warriors and guardians can both set up a tank spec in traits, then use fire + air/intelligence sigils, strength runes and zerker ammy and still live through tons of damage (unlike the thief) and still put out good damage?

Because you spec for actual trait effects, and not for the +100-300 stats u get from investing into certain trait lines… Feline Grace, Sleight of Hand, those are kittened and need toning down, as well as air-fire combo, as pointed above.
Also, s/d thief DOES live through tons of damage, despite its role…

um… what? SO, are you telling me that warriors don’t specifically trait things like cleansing ire for the effects?

Slight of Hand is ‘kittened’ how exactly? You can’t handle a daze on a steal when a warrior can stun lock some classes to death? Hell a warrior can stun/daze longer than the venom elite!

S/D does not “live through tons of damage” it doesn’t live through damage at all, it lives by avoiding it. It’s well known meta S/D is a dodge tank, this alone seems to make people think it’s a win button or takes no skill. As was pointed out, the fire and air combo are not a thief-based problem.

An interesting question would be if the devs listen to these players when balancing. It doesn’t even need to be said that he’s wrong in terms of tpvp, but is Anets approach to cater to them by taking advice on balancing, or just to balance easy builds for high level play; narrowing the skill gap between these players and the hardcore…

uberkingkong.8041:

My votes,

EU Denshee, Helseth, ROM, Sizer, Tage

NA Davinci got banned, Stunningstyles, Hman, Zoose, Shananigans.

Also that NA is the victor.

I would love to hear the NA chat for that match..

“We got this bro.. Do you even li….oh jezus I’m dead.”

But just voting for TM is lame. Mix it up.

Lol at the ppl telling Misha to time his burst better.

This post is aimed at the devs anyway; s/d isn’t fun to play or play against. It needs more (mechanical!) counter play.

And it’s not an even match up vs sceptre/f GS guard FYI, which is broken because if anything we should have the advantage vs thieves. That’s pretty much why I play guard, after all.

Some of the candidate choices are interesting… still good to see some very familiar faces from both sides of the pond

How often does Phantaram play NA? Or is it a travel issue?

Edit: Also vote Karsaib and Maylo, its about time we saw them on that kind of stage.

PSILO.4068:

I like the Skyhammer because: Your team is essentially fighting over four areas as opposed to three for the entire match. It forces one to use some environmental awareness. The map mechanics often forces one to alter or completely change builds. It also neutralizes many “cheese” builds/play styles. So, in theory, this should make one a better overall player.

Oh, and the insta-rage it creates is hilarious.

Nope… no… no thanks… not here…. cya!

Run an s/d thief on your team. He can strip the stab and cc him while you both clean up. It’s easy to do on thief.

There you go!

I play 30/30/0/0/10 s/d ele a lot in solo q, because it makes you sick at other more viable zerker classes.

But I have to meditate (literally) between pops. Especially between skyhammer matches.

To be fair to the devs..

They probably don’t comment because anything other than

“We’re releasing HA/GvG and it’s coming out on X”

Is going to upset all the GW1 vets in one way or another

Sure we could discuss it’s development, but if they did it would pretty much have to be developed from that point onwards. MOBAs are still a wildcard; nobody knows if they would/could release them. The devs are also most likely far less experienced with MOBAs than some of the players here, unlike more traditional game types were they already have QA resources in place.

/fanboyout

Spiritwatch is so much better than skyhammer.

Keksmuffin.1450:

Darnis.4056:

Thief is for sure the hardest fight and while the situation is ridiculous this game isn’t balanced for 1v1.

In fact it’s balanced so that thief ALWAYS has a good chance to win any 1v1s because of his class role.

Keksmuffin you’re clownshoes.

k

Sarcasm? You do realize that glass v glass is often a quick duel if one-sided; something zipping around rinsing glass classes is very limiting to diversity.

Tbh though i don’t care what they do to thieves as a whole, just nerf Sizer plz thx

Thief basically needs to be less lethal to other zerker professions. Perhaps if they could bypass additional armor somewhat and have their base dps toned down.. So they maintained dps vs high toughness classes whilst not being able to rince all other zerker professions.

Or just tone down the damage coefficient of on proc sigils for thief…

The shave has brought them into line. Classes that benefit actively from might stacking beyond battle sigils will still find these very powerful.

PS: the continued facade of languished tooltip changes gives much more cause for outcry IMO, but I won’t fight it.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Phaeton.9582:

Going off ‘optimal’ builds…

Warrior>Engineer, Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, Ele
Necro> Engineer, Ranger, Mesmer
Engineer>Ranger, Guard, Ele
Guard>Mesmer, non acro thief, Ele, Warrior, Necro
Thief (acro trickery)> All (but some engineers?)
Ele> Necro, Ranger
Mesmer> Engineer, Ele
Ranger>Guard, Mesmer

Thoughts? Not seen something like this before, I’m sure other ppl have different ideas. I main GC guard (though multi-class) so my perspective of its 1v1 capabilities may be warped a bit XD

Also to guards struggling with the new thief build (and we should be able to beat thieves). Sword MH will beat them. Sadly it lacks the cleave/team fight pressure to be viable elsewhere.

A good Mesmer should generally beat a Warrior. They have to be careful around Longbows but proper placement should still overcome it. If they are control focused it should be non contest because Mes has so many escapes and pseudo-escapes.

As for Engi V War it kinda depends, but I still think the Engi has the edge. If they use Hammer/Mace and you have Protection Injection (and many builds do) you can eat a whole combo and they just pop your Healing Turret and it’s like nothing even happened. There’s also Acidic Coating that can really screw up Burst skills. If running Experimental Turrets with Thumper AND Prot Inj your Protection up time is so high that you can force them to use all of their Stability/Zerker Stance then just control chain them. I fought a Axe/Sword + LB War in PvP last night (and he was pretty high on the leaderboard) and there just wasn’t much he could do. Of course, then a Staff Ele comes along and Meteor Shower kills all of the Turrets and the Engi is left with no friends.

That same War build however destroys S/D Thieves. Just wait for the pause after their combo and use Evis and boom, dead or sent running. Not to mention they will have to spend a lot of time fighting on Combustive Shot and getting hit my Impale when the War is stacking Might really punishes them.

That being said it doesn’t make sense to make class vs class but it should instead be build vs build. There used to be a chart floating around here where you have all the Meta builds matched up and people discussed what beat what generally. It might be time for another one of those.

Yeah my perspective on warrior may be a bit outdated, as I stopped playing it last year. When I did it beat all the top mesmers, but zerker warrior was very different to the current build. Ditto on engi once they buffed zerker stance. Have to say still not sure how an s/d thief can lose to a warrior; I know sizer is very tough to ROM, and we’re talking skill cap dueling here…

I know what you mean about build by build, but kinda assumed the perspective meta build on each class unless specified. The only exception is guard, where the meta is still to run high condi cleanse (which is UP as hell IMO but that’s a different topic).

Amstel Steel.2058:

@Helseth

What are your thoughts on the pros and cons on racial divisions? Would the increased queue times outweigh the ability to partake in matches/tournaments exclusive to a certain race or races of similar scaling?

?

jportell.2197:

Phaeton.9582:

Warriors arnt OP in spvp, if that’s what you mean.

S/d thieves can interrupt everything a warrior does, stripping their stab and turning them into a cc’d punch bag. Oh yeah and they will 1v1 them easily.

Oh wait s/d can 1v1 anything on similar skill levels. Mmmmm

Ya warrior OP right…. dat eviscerate.. no counter

An eviscerate warrior can easily eat a thief up. People just gotta learn to dodge larcenous strike not flanking strike… Also thief s/d flanking strike has an after cast leaving them vulnerable to eviscerate. And lets not forget double endure pain plus berserker stance… And also arcing arrow still regularly hits for 6k on thieves when running an eviscerate build…

I don’t get hit by eviscerate on other classes, so not sure how a skilled s/d thief could be…

S/d steals stab. Without stability warriors are easy targets IMO, I’m not sure how they’re still in this meta…

Bart Weird.9671:

Will he play a naked norn thief like in soloq?

That’s such a good idea.

Why did I read this as Alpha.

I can dream…

Going off ‘optimal’ builds…

Warrior>Engineer, Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, Ele
Necro> Engineer, Ranger, Mesmer
Engineer>Ranger, Guard, Ele
Guard>Mesmer, non acro thief, Ele, Warrior, Necro
Thief (acro trickery)> All (but some engineers?)
Ele> Necro, Ranger
Mesmer> Engineer, Ele
Ranger>Guard, Mesmer

Thoughts? Not seen something like this before, I’m sure other ppl have different ideas. I main GC guard (though multi-class) so my perspective of its 1v1 capabilities may be warped a bit XD

Also to guards struggling with the new thief build (and we should be able to beat thieves). Sword MH will beat them. Sadly it lacks the cleave/team fight pressure to be viable elsewhere.

Phadde.7362:

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

I am really loving the discussion going on in this thread. This is a testament to how awesome our community is! Alright so now that we have flushed out some ideas let me give you some guide lines and let me know if we can design around it.

1. Must be able to be hot join-able
* Not easily griefed and allow players to be able to jump in and out
2. Must fit the 5 on 5 standard
3. Can fit our standard PvP match time (15 mins)
4. (Would Be Nice) Shout castable

Alright let me know how your ideas fit or change with these standards.

No! Why do you have to limit yourselves to a 5v5 standard? That’s an awful idea!

What I would enjoy the most is a 2v2 or 3v3 arena game mode and a more relaxed, large scale game mode with around 30 players. Not only do I think that these kind of game modes would be very enjoyable, but the difference in team sizes between game modes would make it feel as we would get an even greater diversity of game modes in PvP, on top of the diversity that comes with a larger quantity of game modes (Just having 1 is beyond ridiculous; it is tragic.)

Although, that’s just my opinion, but the general idea to just stick with a team size of 5 through all game modes is probably objectively a very bad one?

+1 to this in general, if you went the the trouble of making a MOBA, a 3v3 option would make sense to me too.

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey all,

I’ve seen some concerns in this thread regarding allocating developer resources for tournaments and events, and I just wanted to let you know there’s no reason to be alarmed! While I’m sure our programmers and designers would make for awesome Event Managers, they’ve got a game to work on! Projects like Tournament of Legends, our tournament at gamescom, and anything similar that we do in the future is largely owned by myself and our community/marketing teams.

I had a lot of fun working on the community team earlier this year as the PvP Community Coordinator, and I’m really excited to be back on the team in this new role (Events Manager). For anyone who has been around since the start, you know I’m very passionate about the competitive side of Guild Wars 2. I didn’t want to jump in and ring a bunch of bells announcing my new role when I moved into the position – I’d rather just make things happen.

Hope that all makes sense.

Grouch

Good luck dude.

Head of esports. :p

- We need better representation on twitch. The mobile version is especially bad right now; I’ve taken to playing a game called ‘guess the 90s console game above guild war 2’.

- Players who host community events in their custom arenas could be awarded time tokens. This could be an alternative way to fund them.

- s/d thieves need a look at before these tourneys. They need to be more manageable by zerker builds. It reminds me of a devs comment on warriors last year “we like that warriors can have damage, survivability, and CC. But not all of these things at once”. At the moment the meta is ‘stuff that won’t get insta-gibbed by an s/d thief.’

Liewec.2896:

i stand by what i said, any noob can play warrior and beat good players, but warriors don’t have the mastery levels that ele/engi/thief have.
warrior is the easiest class and with that comes immense power in the lower/medium pvp brackets, but pro egi/theif/eles will have no trouble with warriors.

+dps guard

And average warrior can literally get 100-0

Tell em sister

Aza.2105:

Phaeton.9582:

Bezagron.7352:

In truth I feel it’s that we need more counters to pets builds not remove them.

kittenty, un-fun mechanics don’t need counter builds. They need to be unviable in any meta.

7 of 8 classes have those mechanics. Its part of the game so you have to deal with it. Its bad design to have skills that no one uses because of how it functions.

Anyhow, I think it would make more sense if bow of truth was a slotted heal than a utility.

So perhaps we should be bringing it down to 5.. Not going for 8/8.

This game has some genuinely intriguing builds that are fun to play and watch. But they get countered by the easiest builds; those 7/8 described…

Also when s/d gets toned down meditation guard will be very viable. We also have lots of outlying builds for people looking for variety, as there’s so many interesting ways to self sustain.

Josh Davis.6015:

I’m hype.

Will s/d be fixed by then? Sorry to bring up balance, but it’s as inhibiting as spirits/hambow was last year.

Will you been taking feedback from competitive players on balance leading up to the tournament?

Bezagron.7352:

In truth I feel it’s that we need more counters to pets builds not remove them.

kittenty, un-fun mechanics don’t need counter builds. They need to be unviable in any meta.

Warriors arnt OP in spvp, if that’s what you mean.

S/d thieves can interrupt everything a warrior does, stripping their stab and turning them into a cc’d punch bag. Oh yeah and they will 1v1 them easily.

Oh wait s/d can 1v1 anything on similar skill levels. Mmmmm

Ya warrior OP right…. dat eviscerate.. no counter

Spirit weps are weak in pvp, and that’s a good thing.

/thread

+1

Reckon this guy could rock a mean engi in this meta..

Saladin.6183:

Vieteriukko.6075:

With all respect to your offer I prefer the broken system fixed. I do support Anet by buying gems once in a while but this is something that I rather change a game than pay the fix from my pocket.

I don’t like to be pushed into bad gaming experience and then fixing that by cash even if administration wanted that.

I agree. And lets not forget that this was a service that ANet provided and then took away. As far as I’m concerned, this is very bad business practice. They notice that one of their services are very popular, so they remove it and make it a cash only service. Bad on you ANet.

…but you pay with gold now, so between 20 people you could keep it running for almost nothing.

Note that I am a tpvper, and have been from launch. I’m just saying that with a bit of support there’s a solution to this.

More importantly it’s worth noting that, regardless of how much money they throw into pvp development, sooner or later it will take members of the community to show some initiative to set things up. That’s why the ‘administration’ changed the time tokens to cost gold.

ESL has already shown 4-5 people are capable of setting up 95% of the EU scene.

Imagine if we could push that to 40-50 people, and encompass all styles of play, including the ultra-casuals.

If you guys can pay for the time I will pay for the starter kits. We can all decide on rotations, special rules TDM etc.

Or is this just empty forum QQ?

If I set up an open 8v8 custom arena on EU, who here would help me pay for time?

Helly.2597:

Daishi.6027:

The only thing I have an ACTUAL problem with and am truly salty about is the uninteruptable heal

I agree with this. I can take s/d thieves as a mesmer and acknowledge that even if I outplay them they have a good chance to win. But allowing for a heal to be truly uninterruptable is frustrating at times. Withdraw is probably the thing that messes me up the most when fighting thieves, since I’ll time my burst for after they’ve blown their normal dodges and boom they are healing.

Overall though it’s not really unique to the thief class for a heal that is uninterruptable. Elementalists with their signet (although I don’t know if you interrupt their cast if the heal still goes off), warriors with their signet, and mesmer with its signet all have heals that really can’t be interrupted and whos only counterplay is poison.

The point is certain classes are going to have more trouble against other certain classes. I can’t expect to come into every fight thinking at the base level its a 50-50 win rate, that’t not how balance or mmos work especially one that is based around a 5 man team.

Also engi heal can be interrupted but at 0.5s cast time its a matter of prediction and knowing when they’ll be wanted to cast it.

Correct me if I’m wrong (obviously not a thief main), but if you’re dueling an s/d thief he’s probably saving his heal for your sword 2 into burst, as (at least to me) it’s the easiest way to cleanse the immobilise.

If an s/d thief couldn’t do that you would just one shot him:p

That’s not a problem; that’s counterplay. To me the biggest issue is in. A might stacking meta, this 20066 build is the perfect counter, all the while taking full advantage of the strength runes.

There’re bigger problems thn that

Like why I can get chainsword, I played Halloween and got nothing.

Devs pls.

Edt:nice pics

Vieteriukko.6075:

Fully agree this. 8v8 was significantly less sensitive for bad matchups than 5v5.

That’s because there was no match; it was just a brainless slogg fest.

The root of this issue isn’t in the absence of 8v8; the issue is in the 5v5 experience, and how easy it is to abuse the system and make the matches completely one sided.

SUGGESTION: make it so that if the teams are equal you may only join the losing side

Fixed!

Try swapping the minor III symbol size trait in honour for retal on aegis removal; it’s a really underrated trait.

Chaith.8256:

You can’t prove that it isn’t the community’s favourite Solo Queue map of all time!

Checkmate, GW2 players!

-Anet

Their argument is about as strong as why we shouldn’t cure cancer.

Gonna put down some ideas if anyone wants to contribute. Basically was thinking about how GW2 would fit into a MOBA like game-mode; and the mechanics behind progression could be the glue which holds it together.

To me, there are two things that progression needs to address (that would otherwise cause issues in a gw2 MOBA game type).

• Absence of specific roles in builds (at least from a MOBA perspective)

• Specific classes/builds being OP (thieves could be insane)

Here’s some casual suggestions
- choose a stat path at the start of the game, where stats are gained on level up. Deliberately make the celestial path grant an even higher stat coefficient on level than it would now (making specific ‘balanced’ builds; ele turret engi etc OP in the later game, and weaker at the start due to their reliance on stats for sustain/damage output).

- Give a key role to thieves/Mesmer/dps guard to manage certain mobs (akin to a jungler). A zerker stat allocation should make them good at this role, but worse at the carry due to lack celestial builds suitable for this role.

- Make the ‘strategy’ of progression mid match be trait (or even weapon) specific, rather than stat specific. i.e rather than running more armor to counter a high level direct dmg player, you might have to forgo some condi removal in your trait selection (for stability, dd mitigation, more dps etc), or swap to a weapon setup which is best suited for dealing with them.

Just some ideas anyway, worth discussing thisss

edt: ppl need to start with 6 trait points IMO however; most builds need this much to be ‘playable’.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Hey I appreciate all the feedback and suggestions we have gotten on this topic! I have seen people refer back to the original CDI thread we did awhile back and I appreciate that as well.

My goal here was to spark intelligent conversation between the community and myself with perhaps a newer audience then when the original CDI went out awhile back. I also will say that I am glad to see that people participated in this thread and are still here from when the original CDI happened. Thanks everyone for keeping this constructive!

Let me set up a quick recap of the thread so far:

• You guys/gals seem to really like the idea of a MOBA style game mode
  * Unlocking Skills, Traits, consumable, bundles, and ect.
• An idea about cap points that can be captured but then reset to address the problem with bunkers and stagnate point defense
• GW1 Jade quarry and Fort aspenwood
• Arenas 2v2 3v3 5v5
• Attack/Defend map with rounds
• 500 points doesn’t feel like a fun or rewards goal to hit in PvP
• Free for all Arena
• Trait/skill restriction game mode

Hate to sound like a broken record Hue, but this gamemode has a much of what you just listed :p

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/New-sPvP-Game-Mode-Idea/first#post4016977

Shemsu.8721:

Phaeton.9582:

Currently 1v1 an acro trickery thief played at Sizer’s level will beat my GS sceptre guard.

No other weapon sets gives guard viable cleave and the ability to 1v1 warriors and Eles, even when assuming godlike team fight positioning when running sword mh. So this thief build effectively ‘breaks’ the meta for guards.

As for people trying to play any other zerker classes, I feel for you. You don’t have a hope.

Basically I have to reroll this thief build until they tone it down.

So much QQ.. I feel baddd but….

Ohh my goodness, one thing in the entire game a guardian cant faceroll, we better all reroll now! Thanks for the laugh

Yup back to 100% now, phew!

Currently 1v1 an acro trickery thief played at Sizer’s level will beat my GS sceptre guard.

No other weapon sets gives guard viable cleave and the ability to 1v1 warriors and Eles, even when assuming godlike team fight positioning when running sword mh. So this thief build effectively ‘breaks’ the meta for guards.

As for people trying to play any other zerker classes, I feel for you. You don’t have a hope.

Basically I have to reroll this thief build until they tone it down.

So much QQ.. I feel baddd but….