Guild Wars 2

Leaderboard should go down irrespective of if someones leaves.

MMR change should be zero wieghted on both sides (before 400 points) however. Its this fluctuation that leads to worse matchmaking, which causes the 4v5s in the first place.

Kitt.2567:

pu mes

Also on a deeper level it makes classes that don’t swap to thier weapons as they go off cooldown (due to one being ranged, one melee) much, much more viable in a might stacking meta.

So I think the consensus is that sigil of nullification could be reworked to prioritise full stacks of might (an order would be nice) although stability/protection could be low priority.

This would help zerker classes without boon hate vs might stacking bunkers which have, lets face it, been meta since launch.

you’ve made a good suggestion………

wtf

Don’t feed it

Yeah last night I had no competitive games when 5 man q and the usual cat-hearding newbie games when solo ranked…

Kdubbs.7129:

A reputable source has hailed this as the greatest boon to the community since the Ostrich v. Java debates of 2013.

https://twitter.com/GW2Drama

Those debates were epic.. chaired by kaypuds smirking child-face…

Obsidia.5127:

Lordrosicky.5813:

The leaderboards SHOULD be a grind. It SHOULD be a mix of skill and playing alot. Otherwise you get a stagnant community where people only play with their “full” teams and stomp people. And afkers will win the leaderboards. This game will be so healthy if the leaderboards are a bit of a grind. They have tournaments for full teams to lame it up and win something. Leaderboards should primarily be designed to encourage participation.

So I hope these leaderboards are a sign of things to come.

100% Agreed.

100% agreed.

This is by far the newest thing to grace these forums today.

Evan the spread of player skill is just too wide at the moment. I can 1v2 their team and their team can 1v2 mine. That says it all really….

Defensive.3561:

hahaha you really thought im serious? anyway i don’t fancy it and i know plenty of other people here in eu who don’t also. i hope it will happen, it was so nice to que from anywhere<3

Go away.

The pops are so frequent currently for me it wouldn’t be possible to play while waiting.

Also with a 20 sec alert loading screens would be an issue. I’d rather just be matched quickly.

2 2 1 or 3 2 teams are more than able to match 5 teams, allowing for a little grace to penalties etc.

There will always be a chance factor in matchmaking, and smaller teams may need that penalty help as compensation over time..

Good players don’t need TS anyway, most rotations are pretty obvious, as is when to disengage. The main thing is being matched with other experienced players.

What would NOT be good is one experienced player and 4 new solo q players vs a team of 5 new players. Whether they win or lose this is NOT fun for the player that isn’t new….

I cannot stress enough how not fun this situation is… :p

Justin ODell.9517:

Zuik.7158:

Justin ODell.9517:

Zuik.7158:

Aside from class/role composition and team size what are you currently using for matchmaking then?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm#Matchmaking

Okay, ty. Tbh I just wanted to know if our MMR is currently fixed or not.

Ranked arena is using whatever MMR you had before in team arena.

But it will change subject to our match outcomes, right?

Obsidia.5127:

I just had 5 Thieves (including me) vs. Balanced setup.

We still won…somehow.

Ra B Bit was one of my smurfs collero.. gg :p

Harbinger.8637:

Exile.8160:

well that’s not good. Hopefully the’ll see this post and it’ll help them ;D.

I’d doubt it, the majority of people think Guard is “fine”. However, the longer you play the class, the more you see its shortcomings and limitations. When most people think of Guard, first thing that comes to mind is support bunker.

Sure, bunker Guard is fine, however it’s not needed anymore and can easily be replaced by other classes such as an ele. This is because these classes can fulfill the Guard’s role and even surpass them in many other ways, such as damage.

When it comes to med Guard it’s even worse. There is absolutely no reason to even bring a med Guard over another zerker class. Very limited mobility (FB, JI, and LoF) not even going to mention MI because it’s still garbage. Extremely predictable and easy to read burst (wish more classes where like that, but that’s a different story). Also it’s a profession that primarily focuses on melee combat, yet it lacks the soft CCs, and you have to use sigils and runes to try and make up for it. There hasn’t been one major champion winner that had a dps Guard on the team, and that alone speaks volume about its state.

So yes technically Guard is “fine”, however it’s pretty outclassed in the current meta. Sorry for the rant, it’s just frustrating to see.

No Med guard is v strong vs a lot of matchups. Its just Ele rly, too much spam, hits too hard, perma protection. No real cooldowns to avoid minus a knockdown which is easy and isn’t a game changer.

Want to see more devs on EU come patch day!

No problems with 4v5s from quitters at a reasonable level on EU, except for skyhammer, but thats a different issue

Ppl will just run around at spawn swearing at their team XD

PvP doesn’t give you rewards really…

Also ppl need to understand that unless you decap its v risky 1v2ing in yoloq, as if your team are bad they risk either losing a 3v3 or pushing for a 4v3 and getting decape then stalled.. followed by the inevitable collapse when the 1v2er dies…

This thread is like watching a guy teach a pack of antelopes to play scrabble….

Goliath.7546:

Dishonour should be removed. If there’s someone playing necro/engineer I deserve to rob him of the kill and F12 out. It’s not dishonour if the opposition is using dishonourable techniques.

XD

HamHat.5201:

As far as classes go i’m pretty flexible, I really wanted to know what kind of team counters a condi heavy team. In team fights condi heavy teams always seem to have the advantage. So far it sounds like a full dps team counters a heavy condi team.

Rabid engi is countered by necro. Cele engi can deal with Rabid Engi, a good medi guard (although double Ele can counter mGuard unless played with a Necro) etc

In teams fights warriors can be useful versus these comps just for the blunt impact of them, as they can provide counter pressure despite the considerable pressure of a condi team (which their team relies on) – but it needs to be hambow and needs to focus on supporting team fights.

I’m afraid if your complaint about condi is Ele related then its not a straightforward answer. Cele Ele is meta for a reason.

Staff Ele obviously has very high AoE cleansing and will make them take longer to burn through your cleanses, however from my experience simply running really high condi removal comps (as in a support team) isn’t always the best option (they will have enough pressure to still burn though your cooldowns).

IMO best bet are builds with high counter pressure and CC, like Hambow, D/D (or D/F!) ele, Thief (again this will affect the comp however is especially useful if their comp has a necro) and a Condi Necro can work but you need to rotate around it…

And a staff ele bunking side nodes would give them a headache too.

Oh and if you run a bunker guard they will just focus down the guard if they really are a pure condi team.

chungiee.8764:

I think the best solution is to recalculate prediction rules.

For example, I go into a TeamQ game with premade team and have a 81% odds of victory.

One of my teammates then proceed to DC with scores being 300-100 to my team.

After a grace period (maybe 1 minute) to allow for dc-er to rejoin, kick the dc-er from the game and recalculate odds of victory based on the player ranks and the current score for the team with 4 people. The team with 5 people should keep original odds of victory. In this example, the odds of victory for the 4v5 team now reduces to 30%.

The dc-er suffers full penalty (-3) from loss as calculated at the start of the game and gains dishonour to prevent an alt being used to boost teammate ratings through losses.

Assuming the other team wins, they receive full ladder points (+3)

The 4 players on the losing team receives a softened blow from the loss depending on how valiantly they fought in the 4v5 at at 30% win prediction.

good suggestion

Also why not vote people in positive/negative way at the end of a match if they’re not in your party? Other games have a rating system, and its no bad thing to encourage cooperation.

I still don’t understand why you don’t just bar entry into the match on different classes. This whole DH system seems to be over the top just to prevent people swapping classes mid game.

The channel time required is slightly longer than the time reflected by the bar on your screen.

You’re probably moving from channeling it too soon, even though visually it might be complete.

Oh and Type-pain-I-am (get it?)

Yeah lets hope so. Never underestimate the princess, cholera , and their army of darkness and despair however. It’s gonna make that afk sting hurt even more.

I think if the punishment system doesn’t address this then DH, at least at higher levels, is just going to be a burden. We don’t need it for anything else….

If you want to prevent character swapping, why not bar entry into the lobby on alt proffessions? Wouldn’t that be the most elegant solution?

Overall looks great, hyped for duo q, but in true forum style I just want to focus on one negative quickly…

There is no issue in solo q with people flat out leaving a match. DCs happen from time to time, but they are certainly not a top frustration.

The key issue is simple this: experienced players are gauging how a matchup is by the first 2 mins, and if it doesn’t look good they choose not to participate in a way that won’t have them punished. I play every game through to the end, buy I’d say about 30% of regular (highly active) solo q players do this.

This is where the frustrations are, not in people quitting or getting DCs.

Josh Davis.6015:

The Glorious Hero’s Armor is a skill-based reward. I’d wager that the players who top the ladders are all skilled players in some regard.

If you don’t think they are, you have until Dec 2 to knock them out of the top 20.

With the decay system in place, and the fact that the current top 20 players will be very careful, can that be done?

I see sizer at r95, maybe he’ll manage it (although I guess its not such a big deal in his case)

Well played grouchnet, well played.

The next level would be to have guild-wide rewards for ‘guild teams’ winning tournaments at various levels too.

And Korean groupies. Such esports.

DanSH.6143:

Phaeton.9582:

What are your guys opinions on dagger/focus ele?

Depends on the enemy comp, if they have atleast 2 projectile based specs then focus could be worth it.

That would be powernecro/warrior/engi/ranger/mediguard, 2 of which are most often the case.

But even then there are pro/cons. I can aprreciate that d/f would have a higher skillcap. my question would be when this skillcap is realised (or come close to), do the pros outweigh the cons?

What are your guys opinions on dagger/focus ele?

We all know who the hardcore players are on both sides of the pond. These titles were given as a reward to active players over a very short window, and stand more as a quirky relic than some high status.

We shouldn’t be trying to remove spvp rewards though. As it stands there really is nothing, which was Arenanets attempt at making the game more casual friendly. There really is nothing else right now, and that’s the issue, not this.

Chaith.8256:

Phaeton.9582:

Well the battering ram suggestion is just enabling engis to do something they shouldn’t be able to do.

Phaeton.9582:

Engi already has some of the best res and stomp denial tools in the game.

These two statements are contradicting. Also, take into account how bad your build needs to be to be 6 into tools and slot Personal Battering Ram. It needs to be dang sexy.

Interrupting through stability is res and stomp denial. Overcharged Shot and Big ol Bomb is res denial, Elixer S is stomp denial, as is (sort of) Elixer R. None of those things interrupt through stability, get me? I agree, although I’m somewhat aware that with 6 in tools you can field a mean power engi, and the battering ram would synergise with Synaptic Overload.

Engi is my least played class these days, so please excuse any lack of conviction. As a multiclasser though, it seems important to me some classes can’t interrupt through stab (can you imagine what it would do to warriors! Ele however would have to be much more careful and maybe have to retrait their Earth adept if the engi build was viable, which would add an interesting counterplay. The Engi build would be lethal in lockdown burst comps.

Chaith.8256:

Phaeton.9582:

As for the utility goggles, I’m all for Engineers to have more resistance to condi burst, however we all know how warriors were with 8 seconds of immunity when that was implemented. How about if for 3 seconds all incoming conditions were converted to boons? That would immediately stop Necros from brainlessly landing their dark path wombo combo ftw, without going overboard on mitigation up time.

No arguments here. 5 seconds or 3 seconds works.

Note I suggested 3 seconds conversion thats OP enough :p
Actually would steal that for guard – maybe rework ‘Battle Presence’ in honor on activation of virtue of resolve… I can dream XD

Chaith.8256:

Gadgets grant additional powerful effects.

• Personal Battering Ram – Hit up to 5 enemies, removing stability from those affected.
• Utility Goggles – Prevents conditions from being applied for 5 seconds. (No longer grants immunity to blind for 10 seconds)

Well the battering ram suggestion is just enabling engis to do something they shouldn’t be able to do. Engi already has some of the best res and stomp denial tools in the game.

As for the utility goggles, I’m all for Engineers to have more resistance to condi burst, however we all know how warriors were with 8 seconds of immunity when that was implemented. How about if for 3 seconds all incoming conditions were converted to boons? That would immediately stop Necros from brainlessly landing their dark path wombo combo ftw, without going overboard on mitigation up time.

Spent yesterday trying to prevent my teams getting trolled by Hiba in soloq. Esportz.

At this end of the day its all down to matchups. What can’t be denied is celestial engi is a very versatile class with and against the majority of comps.

Flumek.9043:

Its bad , boring and unfun for both playing with this catpoop.

This is why it should be removed.

Sadly some people think that auto attacking a rocket turret should be found in a strategic action game to be ‘counterplay’.

vincecontix.1264:

Flumek.9043:

I think condi ele deserves its own topic.

Oh lol the meta is not ready for condi ele.

But then all their 1 skills wouldn’t do damage

scerevisiae.1972:

Fistandanthilus.6824:

That’s a total of 600€/600$ for each player of TCG and Abjured at the end of this month.

600 a month is peanuts. Less than peanuts.

Man you must buy a lot of peanuts

Aeroxe.8140:

He’ll be back. This is all just part of Ender’s Game.

Last chance to make that pun

Nailed it.

Chicago Jack.5647:

I firmly believe that the direction Anet went, in terms of developing the mechanics of gw2, was fundamentally driven by their experiences with the first game.

Landing a kill in the first game was a huge deal. So much so that it was virtually mandatory to bring some type of resurrection skill in order to not lose any ground. This significantly restricted certain skillbars. So in response, it seems like they just implemented it as sort of like a “phase” that you have to work around when someone dies, but everyone has the potential to res a person naturally.

Another problem was the “build wars” mentality that the first game developed, and even further strengthened, in its later years. One of the most effective ways to deal with one-trick-pony builds was to effectively split push. I think they realized this and tried to run with it. I think it lead to them enforcing smaller-sized teams (5 man teams instead of 8 man teams) and a focus on capture points.

Another problem was how long the games were. Victory or Death, if I remember correctly, wasn’t in the original incarnation of the game. Victory or Death is a situation when, at a certain time in a GvG, all the npc’s that are in each teams base would make a dash for the center of the map. Then the guild lord would follow suit, slowly marching to the middle of the map. The first team who got overwhelmed, and had their guild lord killed, lost. It was brought about because people could be in a match for literally 45 mins to an hour not making any headway at all. There were legit complaints about aegis stacking by monks (an enchantment spell that granted everyone on the team about 10 seconds of 50% chance to block, each monk would take aegis and just alternate it between the two). It lead to things like burning arrow ranger becoming popular because the ranger was known to split push the enemy base to quickly burn down npcs. This would prepare for Victory or Death (less NPC’s on the other team means advantage). In any case, since the matches lasted so long, I’m sure this persuaded them to try a “point-ticker” type system, and now we have games which rarely last 15 mins.

So, ironically enough (whether they were successful with it or not), they probably developed and tried to improve upon the last game due to what they
knew where the problems/complaints.

Have to say, did not expect to read an interesting and well thought out post today

Thank you.

you need to post this in the pve section

Frenk.5917:

Firebird.8324:

To YOU rough boys, it was plainly obvious that you were the cause of the DDOS, you lost my respect and the respect of many other players, YOU effectively destroyed the tournament for many of the people watching and disgraced Arenanet in the area of potential E-Sports.

Don’t you think these are very serious innuendos? You can’t truly think that Rough Boys were the cause of all of this.

That’s not an innuendo.

Hope you all appreciate my contribution on the matter.

I think I could rant at every reply here.

QA balance in a nutshell?

> make something that was fine at high levels easier to use
>higher level players complain class is OP
>balanced by nerfing something most rewarding at skillcap (finicky but powerful)

net result; class remains balanced but easier to play…

Simon.3794:

Phaeton.9582:

Kitt.2567:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Warrior is too simple a class to be viable in high tier play.

this is obviously how it should be and should stay.

lol then anet need to make f2,f3,f4 burst skills more to make play harder

I’ve been saying this for years.

But for those ‘top’ players still treading water in warrior land, I’ll just quote chap.

“bad for the player good for the game”

however

warrior needs to be able to spec to manage active defensive and more subtle mechanics (that are both mechanically and situationaly demanding) ie not just stuff that does damage/facilitates you doing damage.

Sadly there isn’t enough combined brainpower from the player base to properly ask for this. It won’t happen.

to those who think such a wide spread cap can’t be achieved however ….. look at the difference in skill cap between s/f an d/d ele….

it’s been two years or almost, since when warrior was free kill tier, me and a lot of other warriors have been asking for gameplay improvement/buffs, you know where the idea of Cleansing ire came from? it was from the kitten community, we also provided tons of other gameplay skill improvement.

but no, you know what we ended up getting? Healing signet!
and then they just nerfed building momentum one of the higher skill cap traits that provide higher skill based gameplay, and gave hambow sigil of intelligence and freaking runes of strength

FFS! REALLY!

QA feedback from pvp was VERY different from pve warriors however. I provided tons of feedback at the time, being one of the few highly active warriors in pvp from launch.

We were shouted down however on changes to passive sustain/‘defensive’ traits; dismissed as players just salty their stuff was meta.

Glad I rerolled then and there

Kitt.2567:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Warrior is too simple a class to be viable in high tier play.

this is obviously how it should be and should stay.

lol then anet need to make f2,f3,f4 burst skills more to make play harder

I’ve been saying this for years.

But for those ‘top’ players still treading water in warrior land, I’ll just quote chap.

“bad for the player good for the game”

however

warrior needs to be able to spec to manage active defensive and more subtle mechanics (that are both mechanically and situationaly demanding) ie not just stuff that does damage/facilitates you doing damage.

Sadly there isn’t enough combined brainpower from the player base to properly ask for this. It won’t happen.

to those who think such a wide spread cap can’t be achieved however ….. look at the difference in skill cap between s/f an d/d ele….

If i fire a projectile then swap weapons whilst dodging the dodge will be canceled on weapon swap, canceling the reckless dodge damage too.

I remember doing these combos last year so something must have broken it…..

Anyone else find this bug irritating?