Guild Wars 2

Phaeton.9582:

John Corpening.9847:

A few of you guys have mentioned better incorporating guilds into the ladders. I’m curious what your thoughts are on how to achieve this? Would you let any member of your guild affect guild standing? If so how would you track ladder standing for the guild? Would you create one or more guild teams? If you could create teams within your guild what sort of functionality would you want or need to manage those teams? How many members would need to be present to represent? Would you allow alternates?

Do you envision any sort of guild wide reward for fielding a winning team or should only the team be rewarded? For example, if your guild has a PvP team and they come out on top of the ladder maybe they get some special reward for being the top team but the whole guild gets something for having the number one team. What could a reward like that be?

This thread is really long so I might just answer the red posts directly, sorry if some of the stuff has been raised already.

People want a leaderboard that reflects the standing of teams, not individuals. This is the target IMO. Incorporating this into the guild system would be cool, all you would need is a rank permission to allow guild leaderboard representation in tpvp (needs to be 5 man).

This is the simplest solution. The biggest problem of course will be players in multiple guilds being over represented on the leaderboards, as well as ‘smurf’ guilds.

This could be avoided by having a ‘Tpvp Represent’ button available to permitted members, with more stringent restrictions in guild swapping.

The matchmaking could be done still on individual MMR (are there ways this could be abused?) but winning teams will be rewarded with standing on team leaderboards.

People will still want to duo and trio q casually however. It’s a really underrated way of playing although it’s had a reemergence recently.

Your last point was really good, I’m glad pvp devs have picked up on the potential for guild support from the wider game. Every team needs fans. and what better way to get them when winning affects their game too.

These tertiary rewards could be aesthetic, affecting WvW and spvp players in the wider guild.

This would require the ‘tpvp representing’ guild to be able to play under a different name however. The leaderboards could show ‘team name’ and ‘guild name’.

More rank permission would be required to make this work however. The ability to create (name) teams as well as assigning eligible players. Multiple teams per guild would probably be required, but maybe limited to three. No player can be in two teams from the same guild. The karma rewards could be ramped up substantially for guild wins.

Hope this helps, more to come!

Edit : As someone said above, an ‘enter guild team’ permission allowing players to queue guilds in the pvp tab would also be a way of addressing guild teams, similar to gw1.

I still think team name should be separate from guild name though, for reasons given in the post above.

Josh Davis.6015:

Josh Davis.6015:

We’ve mentioned a few times prior that we’re looking at rebalancing the top-end of ranks to make them more attainable. We came to this decision after player feedback persuaded us to leave ranks into the game, rather than cut them.

The amount of rank points needed to hit 80 is too darn high.

That’s cool, all for it.

Give us 100 ranks though when people start hitting 80^^

John Corpening.9847:

A few of you guys have mentioned better incorporating guilds into the ladders. I’m curious what your thoughts are on how to achieve this? Would you let any member of your guild affect guild standing? If so how would you track ladder standing for the guild? Would you create one or more guild teams? If you could create teams within your guild what sort of functionality would you want or need to manage those teams? How many members would need to be present to represent? Would you allow alternates?

Do you envision any sort of guild wide reward for fielding a winning team or should only the team be rewarded? For example, if your guild has a PvP team and they come out on top of the ladder maybe they get some special reward for being the top team but the whole guild gets something for having the number one team. What could a reward like that be?

This thread is really long so I might just answer the red posts directly, sorry if some of the stuff has been raised already.

People want a leaderboard that reflects the standing of teams, not individuals. This is the target IMO. Incorporating this into the guild system would be cool, all you would need is a rank permission to allow guild leaderboard representation in tpvp (needs to be 5 man).

This is the simplest solution. The biggest problem of course will be players in multiple guilds being over represented on the leaderboards, as well as ‘smurf’ guilds.

This could be avoided by having a ‘Tpvp Represent’ button available to permitted members, with more stringent restrictions in guild swapping.

The matchmaking could be done still on individual MMR (are there ways this could be abused?) but winning teams will be rewarded with standing on team leaderboards.

People will still want to duo and trio q casually however. It’s a really underrated way of playing although it’s had a reemergence recently.

Your last point was really good, I’m glad pvp devs have picked up on the potential for guild support from the wider game. Every team needs fans. and what better way to get them when winning affects their game too.

These tertiary rewards could be aesthetic, affecting WvW and spvp players in the wider guild.

This would require the ‘tpvp representing’ guild to be able to play under a different name however. The leaderboards could show ‘team name’ and ‘guild name’.

More rank permission would be required to make this work however. The ability to create (name) teams as well as assigning eligible players. Multiple teams per guild would probably be required, but maybe limited to three. No player can be in two teams from the same guild. The karma rewards could be ramped up substantially for guild wins.

Hope this helps, more to come!

Nah I want to rank up faster

2 rank 60+ accounts within reach…. Heaaavvvyy

SonOfKrypton.4357:

All I want is my Champion title and I’ll be goneski from PvP. It’s disappointing that my success in achieving this goal is dependent on players who have no idea what they’re doing.

/rant

What kind of feedback is this? I’m sorry spvp affects your pve game…

I would hazard a guess the opposite affects us far more.

Swagg.9236:

Phaeton.9582:

Or just don’t play skill-less spam builds. They just need to balance some stuff really, so nobody is forced to. The problem is there are already non brain dead builds outside the meta which are hugely OP when played well, they could well dominate completely after the nerfs.

Decap engi isn’t OP though, the average players brain is UP at the moment.

That’s why I’ve taken steps to re-balance the professions in order to bring timing, positioning and aim back to the forefront of combat instead of relying on passives, instant damage and enormous AoEs.

This thread isn’t just because of decap Engineer; you couldn’t be further from the truth on that one.

The only problem here is I feel obliged to reply to this stuff.. guess it’s my problem XD

Ok so quickly

A: I agree with what the devs have said on this matter from launch; increasing the points gained for a kill just pushes the meta further towards bunker comps as team wipes are much more infrequent as well as disengaging being easier.

B: Anyone who has played legacy of the foefire can appreciate how difficult it is to debunk and full-cap the mid point (which just leads to snowball matches)

C: Your comment on decap engis was confusing, sorry if I misread the posts here. If you meant however I was wrong about decap engi not being OP, I’d suggest looking up this thing called stability :p

kenny.3627:

+1 for #cashmoney!

This

After the Gold Rush [NA] is a newly formed guild thingy (bit PvE I know), but it’s for tpvp guys and gals that have swapped regions.

Anyone who’s jumped across the pond is welcome, having already shown a certain dedication to pursuing esports. You can also invite one or two of your NA mates to stay in touch, provided they regularly troll guild chat.

Look me up IG @ Perdix.8641

Oh we got three custom arenas for us to use exclusively too

#cashmoney

Or just don’t play skill-less spam builds. They just need to balance some stuff really, so nobody is forced to. The problem is there are already non brain dead builds outside the meta which are hugely OP when played well, they could well dominate completely after the nerfs.

Decap engi isn’t OP though, the average players brain is UP at the moment.

plus one to this

There was about 40ppl giving it a go anyway….who knows oO

Noc.2459:

Please dont change your account name or use second accounts to text here.

It confuses me.

That better mein freund?

sorry couldn’t resist

It’s strange because IG every thief I’ve spoken too says it’s OP for the rewards it grants, also describing the build as ‘dumb’ or ‘virgin’.

I think the point is it’s a bit more powerful than other builds, it face rolls instantly anything without damage mitigation (which sucks for ele), and it’s stupendously easy to play, which irritates committed players.

(For those missing the in jokes) Stunningstyles is a clicker, sataarcony went to Disneyland.. Maybe…

That said I’ll donate a custom arena if this takes off

^this.

I used to play on 70mb, had no problem NA for the first year.

Now I go back there on ~9mb, and there is a slight bit of latency. It’s manageable though, and your connection is probably much faster. NA players I know that have swapped recently haven’t noticed any difference.

If you’re making the swap to EU though, PM Perdix.8641 your details.

A guild is being started specifically for competitive NA players jumping ship.

Fresh air ele needs a way to counter thief, that’s pretty much it. Warrior and necro are fairly broken vs burst builds in general at the moment.

This game needs more skill cap builds, not less. D/D can provide higher sustain damage if that’s your bag, and it’s something that will be improved substantially in the next patch..

This is getting ridiculous

Come back EU

EU solo q is in a MUCH better position to NA solo q.

EU solo q you just have to outplay your opponents (with a better build too) to climb the leaderboard.

NA solo q is just a test of how hard you can carry your team every match. For some reason there are ~r20s on both sides in top 100 queues, so basically this involves rolling a far point troll build or thief and playing a weird sort of mini-game with them..

Evan Lesh.3295:

@Nettle,Silver: You’ve explained well the importance of attracting new players.

Specifically for the high-level players it sounds like balance is by far the most important feature to keep you going, which is no surprise. I can’t speak much to that as I program sPvP features and don’t deal with balance first-hand However, the balance patch is coming, so that will definitely be affecting top-tier players. Apart from that, giving feedback on the Ladder CDI would be most beneficial.

I understand the balance team is in an unusual place with the sigil/rune overhaul. However what I was writing about (and showing it to anyone in balance would be awesome), is a change in approach to balance going forward.

Simply put, large drawn out balance patches don’t work in a competitive environment. It’s been the biggest weakness of spvp since launch, misconstrued as players simply clamouring for new content (which is certainly the case in other areas).

The phrase “The game isn’t fun in this meta” was actually something polyphi said to me, shortly before 55 hpm got fully underway. For some reason it stuck, probably because it best highlights how competitive players have felt this last year.

Ty Evan anyway; I’ll check out the CDI tomorrow..

^ Have to say, think that’s my best post to date XD

Evan Lesh.3295:

Apart from competition and prestige, what kind of things are most attractive to the high-level players?

A few things stand out to me. Again I’ll try to cut out the subtext where possible.

Not too fussed about aesthetic rewards tbh. I see them actually more for player acquisition than retention of dedicated pvpers.

We want rewarding gameplay, and lots of people to play against at our level.

This both leads to and stems from player retention, which in turn involves tackling a couple of negative statements that prey on us.

Problem statements:

“The game isn’t fun in this meta”

“The meta has been the same for months”

The first statement is probably the biggest one. The player asks himself if this is the perfect time to play. The answer is often no, and so begins the battle between brain and raw addiction (hence the “I quite” posts where players don’t actually quit). Eventually the brain wins..

Action: Watch top player streams; there are moments where builds shut them down without room for counter play. These specific matchups need to be addressed as a priority; they make people quit.

Action: Players want to think a game is constantly being balanced. Conversely many of us sit around thinking of ways to unbalance your game, hence the constant need for adjustment. We enjoy doing this.

Again I know a key objective for the balance team currently is to remove the disparity build-wise between spvp and other aspects of the game. This is a non issue for us. In fact the idea of PvE having an impact on balance is a frustrating one, as we see this as a different game entirely.

Much of this can be solved by regular tweaks to the % damage/healing on skills in spvp. We’re talking in the order of 4-12%. Many of us see such changes as sPvP maintenance.

What falls out of this is the message that the game is actively being balanced, and also shows the game is changing. Players want to know that when Joe Blogs beat them with his cheesy hambow last week, this week his sustain has taken a hit and the matchup will be different. It’s an example of a small % tweak which is much more exciting for a competitive player than say, a buff to shouts.

Of course we want other stuff. Game-modes are a big one, as you guys are well aware. But I think one of the biggest changes that needs to happen first and foremost is a change in the way pvp balance is perceived. It’s not development.. or a feature. It’s maintenance. And just about every player in the mists is looking for new ways to vandalise it.

I don’t think any warrior main enjoys playing hambow to be honest.

So yeah bit put out about another month without any pvp maintenance, like many long standing and supportive players.

Rather than write a long boring post about one guy on the internets spvp opinion, I’ll just deliver the facts.

Better integrating spvp into WvW and PvE (a goal which is completely justifiable for many more general reasons) will not engage your dedicated spvp players.

We don’t want to play an RPG game
We don’t want to play a siege warfare game.

Leaderboard improvements are welcomed, although as with much of the MMR system matchup quality is largely dependant on player base.

So the real question is, what’s being done to attract and maintain interest for high level players over the coming months?

Also: as a bit of constructive feedback, players would like to see healing signet shaved by the maintenance build scheduled on the 18th. This alone would cheer a lot of fans up. Could it be be made possible?

Arcturus.8109:

style.6173:

Actually this is quite true. I’ve seen eles at upper levels who are insanely good.

How am I bored of this kitten. People are saying this after they get killed by perfecly landed fresh air combo after failing to kill ele for few seconds (mostly because of arcane shield). Well, I wont deny that it looks skilled (quite fast in execution compared to other classes), it may even take some skill (or time) to imprint that combo so you can do it fast and good, but what does it have aside from it? Nothing at all. It is just a one-trick nuclear pony that even works only because on untelegraphed nature of air and arcana.
Remember my words – if ele get more passive defence and thus more space for mistake (and, maybe, shorter cd’s) fresh air will be even dumber than current hambow.
This abomination have nothing to do with real ele issues, balancing class around it is like balancing engi around decap spec.

Ele just wants counter play vs thieves. And no it won’t, as apart from the vastly greater level of skill required rotationally compared to hambow, and the fact it has 0 sustain, s/x is a build that requires positional awareness.

That’s one thing this game has lost, with dopy warriors constantly pushing without punishment from ranged classes that would just get 2 shotted by a thief.

@at phanta, sorrow and just about anybody else that has played ele and knows ‘the problem’ of thieves shutting them down.. Why don’t you contribute to my posts about it?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/PvP-Ele-Balance-Revealing-Flames/first#post3684870

Got eaten alive by those WvW players when I tried to make a thread about counter play..

(PS I disagree with the statement that guard is a broken matchup on ele. I find a top 50 ele a tougher matchup to a top 50 Mesmer/thief on my dps guard, which admittedly has only just started running a retal heavy 15+ virtues build)

I still beat them, but evisc warrior is an easier matchup by far (as phanta is well aware :p).

Interestingly s/x glass ele has been countered by evisc warrior since launch. It’s a tough matchup for ele which is pretty much a natural counter if we’re talking combat zones and how the professions deal with them.

scerevisiae.1972:

The problem with Ele is that it’s balanced around peak performance, not average performance, and the difference between how the class performs at low vs high skill levels is really large.

IMO the base performance of the class as a whole needs to be raised and the ceiling brought down if needed.

Put another way, the gradient of the performance to skill curve needs to be flattened towards the skill axis slightly.

No they just need to make D/D support viable again (a fairly easy, faceroll build), and leave fresh air at the skill level it is now, but prevent them getting insta gibbed by thieves some how…

Every post disputing a certain players views have been deleted. Even if karsaib casually mentions the unreadability of steal it gets deleted if he quotes him.

Is Arenet paying people to post ludicrous comments to fallaciously impose on us a ‘balanced’ discussion?

Probably not. It’s probably another reason I won’t mention incase I incur the wrath of moderation.

felivear.1536:

That is the first time I’ve ever seen you type something remotely negative about Anet. You must be at a breaking point, my friend.

Anet, what HAVE YOU DONE???

I KNOW RIGHT

Put up with having the reward chest bug for region transfer.
Put up with warriors having zero sustain for 10 months then being turned into a noob class going forward.
Put up with constant unreasonable moderation in the forums, despite being a clear gw2 fanboy.
Put up with the support team being unable to refund me 600k glory for about five seconds of miss clicking at 3am (despite being able to refund joe blogs for buying the wrong ascended trinket).
Put up with balance decisions showing blatant disregard for committed tpvp players

But this takes the biscuit. Arenanet please be straight with us about your content updates (and spare the maintenance/feature patch lingo).

Rubik.7192:

Can confirm, this guy is the real deal. #MLG #420 #swag

“climbs the ladder so he can jump off and noscope….”

woops wrong account…. and fyi

Leeto.1570:

The funny thing will happen when 18th hits and theres no balance update. (ofcourse i dont know this cause after million times asking we just know that instead of mysterious feature build its gonna be the mysterious maintance build w/e that means)
Ok active forums readers know this cause its getting spammed all day long but casual gw2 pvper who just follows what devs say is completely sure that there will be balance improvements XD

AM sticky:

“Yes, players will eventually be able to take their looks across game modes; however, this will not be happening as a part of the maintenance build on March 18th”

Liewec.2896:

axe war is my fave zerker, i would say that it eats thieves for breakfast,
but thieves are just the appetizer!

oh you went in to stealth? excuse me while i do a 12k cyclone with 2×3k dodge rolls

1v1 on the same skill level teef will win.

GC guard on the other hand burns though thieves. But sadly 95% of them get facerolled by terror necros pressing any button. Which an axe warrior conversely can faceroll.

That’s partly why I’m having fun playing both atm…

bobomb.5209:

How do you not stub your toe? It keeps happening to me!

Special shoes

It’s much more of a problem on NA than EU.

Can’t imagine anyone who’s played both recently not agreeing with this..

Josh Davis.6015:

The maintenance build is not the same thing as the feature build.

Hope that clears things up.

What’s the difference in spvp between a maintenance build and a feature build?

Sometimes when I’m alone I turn off all the lights and dance

OP has never played EU Tpvp…

A: wtf is this ‘stealth spam’
B: s/x is stronger and easier to play competitively
C: why are people discussing PP…

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Hard counter to stealth, not a hard counter to the class, in the same way that diamond skin/that engi trait is a hard counter to conditions and not to necros/engis in general. This speccing to defeat a single type of build (and lose to everything else) should not exist in a game that claims to have skill as a major factor.

Good thieves can play without constantly being in stealth and still have a number of flat-out advantages over elementalists (not from experience with mine, I’m a terrible thief even though I avoid stealth like the plague, or possibly because I avoid stealth like the plague. I have played against good thieves, they are not the stealth/spam noobs that the more common ones are, and I don’t accidentally kill them with meteor shower).

Ok.. Again sorry for not being clearer about the diamond skin comment earlier. The key difference is if you go 30 or 25 in fire you can still produce a very strong (and IMO the best) s/f ele build available. I know karsaib and phanta run 30 arcana, but honestly when you’re that glassy it’s basically kill or be killed. And fire traits can do a ton of things to help you kill. From watching phanta play I can see how effective he can make it for other things like might stacking, but personally I prefer the deeps up front.

This is crucially different from diamond skin, as 30 earth won’t make you capable of anything much (no sustain, no dps).

Furthermore I would say you might be confusing ‘hard counters’ with counter play. We’re not talking about giving eles heat signature recognition here.

Eviscera.9703:

Ostricheggs.3742:

The spot eles took previously was the spot that warriors currently take up.

I would rather fight an ele than hambow warrior.. JUST SAYING.

Hambow is easier to outplay IMO and also to counterbuild

Mind you I was playing warrior back then. Lel.

OP updated.

and @P Fun Daddy I wouldn’t call them stronger without any invis, then describe it as a hard counter in the same post, its a bit confusing. The ony thing it hardcounters is the Mesmer downstate IMO, having played around a bit with sic em on ranger. The rest is all quite manageable.

Will the new spvp reward scheme be addressing this bug?

Appreciate a dev response if any of you are available to comment, would be nice to know who I can and can’t play with next month..

Meglobob.8620:

Is ele really that terrible…?

For 90% of players who are not skilful piano players or have not spent $$$ on a fancy keyboard…yes

For the 10% who bought a fancy keyboard or are excellent piano players…no, they are completely OP

Well I’m a semi pro musician and have used a g13 gamepad since launch…

Still get no love on ele compared with other profs

Yamsandjams.3267:

Well, if you did want to add it to a trait, it could go to the 15 point fire magic trait. This already has an “on attunement” affect to it already, so it would just be a direct buff. I’m not sure if people really try to use the damage on attunement swap that much anyways… I guess maybe in a s/x spike build it could work well, but I’m not an ele expert by any means.

That would be so OP though ><

Yamsandjams.3267:

Or perhaps it could be added to persisting flames so that the blast finishers also reveal enemies in addition to the other stuff.

I don’t think it’s worth dedicating a whole trait to this sort of revealing mechanism. Instead, I think it would be better to give it to something that could benefit from it.

Otherwise just add it to a weapon or utility, like cleansing fire or flamewall.

Adding revealed to persisting flames is a cool idea I hadn’t thought of. The only problem is raising the skill cap on s/x glass, but frankly if all classes were ‘buffed’ in this manner ppl would be a lot more content by it.

Revealed on flamewall is also a good suggestion, as focus fire attune is in severe need of a buff. If any weapon should be designed to deal with thieves it should be this one too.

Pyroatheist.9031:

It would end up being a bad thing in a build overall I feel, making your performance worse. If you had this trait, now you’d be wary of switching to fire attunement before your opponent stealthed, otherwise you’d waste your reveal. This would hurt your dps significantly, as well as really cramp some of your rotations. Additionally, they could counterplay it with things like going stealth just to bait you into fire out of water or something, and then burst you down with burst they prepared with that in mind.

Overall just a poor idea.

How would you suggest giving eles a reveal skill then?

Also important to point out that revealed on a visible thief can be just as clutch.

mobility is probs the best part of meditation guard

The problem is that builds that don’t rely on many CDs for sustain will always dominate. I can outplay ppl till the cows come home, but in that big spammy, messy team fight sustain tends to win :’(

Plus warrior is god mode when played at the same level..

be very interested to see if they implement this..

BlackBeard.2873:

While I understand the intent, and think stealth could use some more counter-play, this trait doesn’t really do anything against the d/p build that destroys eles. They still would get their backstab off, as 80% of the time they backstab/steal (or shadowstep) to you mid-strike anyway (during the 1/4s cast-time of backstab). Giving them reveal when the ported would be too late as the skill is already executing. You are still stuck random-dodging or blowing defensive CDs.

Yeah its true it would be far from an auto win, but it adds a significant amount of counterplay (especially when a thief has already received substantial pressure).

In the builds we’re describing you’re really looking at either 10% more damage (25/30/10/0/5) or this trait with final shielding too (30/30/0/0/10)…. it would make you much more effective vs thieves imo..

Did a fair amount of testing with sic em on a glass ranger a couple of weeks back, and there’s a ton of stuff you can do with it.

Kyon.9735:

Phaeton.9582:

Razor.6392:

ArthurDent.9538:

Honestly this could be a somewhat decent trait, since one of the big reasons why eles don’t like going full glass is to avoid being insta gibbed by a stealth user. They will still die to a breeze and fire will still be lacking in survivability, but at least have a way to counter the back stab other than pray you hit with aoe.

No. It’s a horribly designed trait. Words cannot express how bad it is.

A grandmaster trait must impact a class’ gameplay. They must be significant, feel rewarding and be effective in multiple scenarios.

This trait is not only situational, but it also does it’s job extremely poorly. So what if you cancelled their stealth when attuning to fire? You can’t do it again for 9 seconds minimum, and they can still damage you (especially mesmers). Not to mention how they can re-stealth much faster than you can de-stealth them.

I already said this but against the other 6 classes, even against eles this trait would be complete trash. Even more situational for revealing enemies that are ocasionally stealthed by mesmers or thieves.

You gotta understand that eles are known to work the way they do because of their reliance on water and on second place arcana. It’s as if some traits were already engraved into eles gameplay. If you plan on giving those traits up, then the reward / tradeoff should at the very least come on par. You lose a LOT of defense and survivability (even damage), then you should get a lot of power in return, or at least something other than a pathetic and situational reveal.

Sorry but I don’t think any decent elementalist could rate this trait idea as ‘mediocre’, not even that adjective would cut it.

blah blah blah water blah blah arcana

Situational is how skill cap builds work. It doesn’t make it weak.

He gave valid points on how this trait will not work. You give him “blah blah blah”. Yep, this discussion is going somewhere.

sorry should of been more patient with him.

Any suggestion that a comment is ‘ill-conceived’ gets my posts deleted..

must be nice to the pve players ><