Guild Wars 2

In my opinion guys you are too negative. In pve people don’t want engi becouse they don’t know it. If you can play it right engi is quite strong in any context , even high level fractal. In fact people does not want engi usually for cof p1 but in fractal 50 you have not many problem to find a party.
In wvw engineer has never shine for zerging but for small scale fight is quite strong, as condi as celestial . Try wolfineer builds for example
In pvp it is viable too. The last wts was won by abjured and they have 1 engi (really strong ok , but if engi would be too week probably he also would have change ) . Don’t take it as a tragedy

ANyone tried celestial with explosive, firearms and inventions for example ? ( for mecha leg) ? i did not try but i will

MrForz.1953:

In WvW, Celestial Engineer lost its punch, everyone else hits harder and tends to shrug off your pressure. With this in mind, you tend to be better off going Dire/Rabid or Berserker. In sPvP it’s another story but the same thing remains, more or less. Nobody prevents you from persevering with Celestial though. I mourn my wupwup gear, but I still use it from time to time.

Nobody is saing that moving incendiary powder was not a nerf. It was but we are saying that saying that it is not completely viable is a lie. In any case with celestial you have more condi damage and more healing power. I find that the miss of healing power on soldier, for me at list is something huge.

it is strange. The game client gives me different cd time for elixir S …. 48 and 32 for toss elixir S) secs instead of 54 and 35 from the site gw2skills.net .Try the build yourself in game and you can see it

you have cd reduction from hgh and from tool line . The only wrong number is elixir S. You have one every 48 secs from skill and 1 every 60 sec from trait .. and the stack of stability are 3 and not 5 … i reserve toss elixir X (moa) for rampager or lich form .
Look yourself . I was at work when i wrote that post so it was not accurated, sorry for that .
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqalcTh6rY7Ww6KQ+FLsF1YOOGfB4HWiBgYHNFPBA-TJhIABQs/AAnAAiKDw7DAAA

FT in wvw is strong if you go in a zerg … if you roam alone in my opinion it is weaker becouse there is not “on point” fight. In wvw it is much easier to use space and envirorment and to stay away from ft skills … in spvp if you want to decap you have to go on the point and ft can works better

sharphanel is quite strong in my opinion. Siege Rounds is a very telegraphed skill and quite easy to avoid even if the double blast, expecially in water is really strong . I played this build before meta appeared. Yes the traits are the same becouse with rifle and nades i think it is quite a must. Acid bomb is strong but it has a 15 second cd … all the other skills are condi damage based .In any case playing quite always in solo i prefer elixir S becouse so many time with pugs there is really nobody who can stomp … ( not for the eg itself ) . I am not saying it is better or not, i am saying that in casual pvp or in wvw also ( for small roaming) it is quite viable . Now i am taking more often elixir X as elite becouse toss elixir X is really usefull for warrior rampage or necro’s lych form . Usually in pvp , lately , i use elixir X and i tend to use mortar for wvw .

In my opinion elixirs build work much better with rabid. The reason is simple : if you take 2 elixir and elixir gun / mortar or elixir X you have a strong condi build ( i usually play elixir B ,S) and elixir gun is much stronger as “condition weapon” rather then as direct damage weapon .

for example i had a lot of fun with this :
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUlUUhSsYJXw+KQ7FLvFV4IGRpm4F1EJx3QFhBAA-TJRHwAFeAAs2fAwFA4YZAA
I am not saying it is better than meta or so, i am saying that i play every night in pvp and i could do quite well. Probably it is not strong as soldier, i am not discussing that, but it is not true that it is not viable for a common player. How many players play top level pvp ? Try it and see. for me it is quite confortable

I read in many threads that celestial engi is dead or complaing on engi status .
Now celestial engi is not strong as before, ok , but it is not unviable as people is saying. Perhaps is not the best setup if you play high end tournaments … but for a casual player is still viable and strong . Soldier probably is stronger but it has no healing power and 0 condi damage . If you take explosive, alchemy and invention with celestial ( nades, toolkit and elixir S or ss or eg) you can have quite fun. Rabid engineers are still playable in many levels and with many different builds . Maradeur and soldier are quite good … so why people complain so much ? How many top teams are in this game ? 100 ?
if there are 100 top teams this means that only 500 or a little more players have the problem that celestial is not viable …. for quite all the other people it remains a viable path . In my opinion eng is much better now than before. Before patch we had only celestial op builds … all other builds were (even rabid) far less effective. Now we can choose between many builds and the gap , for casuals players ( which are the great part of players ) is not so huge. Be happy and enjoy this build variety

I don’t think cele eng is no viable. With alchemy , invention and explosive you can take good celestials builds. Probably it is not as strong as before , but i can ensure you it is quite viable. The problem of soldier is that you lost all you condi damage and nades makes a lot of condition pressure if you take explosive so it is a matter of choice. And as second think , soldier has vitality but it has 0 healing power … it is quite disturbing for HT . I am not saying that celestial is better than soldier , i am only saying that it is really viable if you don’t play top tier pvp probably. And now for example , full rabid elixir builds with hgh are really really strong … there are many alternatives in my opinion for engi … at least 5 or 6 ( maradeurs builds , rabid builds (hgh elixirs, nades+toolkit, ft+jauggernaut .. soldier, celestials )… so we have really a good choices …

condi eng is strong but it is far less strong than before june patch. The fact that now you can not take explosive and incendiary powder was a good nerf ( right in my opinion ).
In this moment, for me , elixir condi engi can be stronger . Try it with rabid, eg, elixir S elixir B … it is quite op. Take the build in draft of metabattle and modify it with balthazar sigils and elixir X as elite ( for pvp at least ) . With 6 sec stealth every 17 sec, 6 sec 5 stab every 17 sec and elixir S every 24 secs or so ( from trait of alchemy and for elixir) it is really op. And toolkit elixir X helps you a lot against necroes …

i have much more fun playing eng… ele rotations are quite boring but … eng has nothing more than ele in my opinion … ( even ele can have cc for example with staff and hammer and signet of earth even if i would not use it in pvp ) .. . cc in ele is not effective but you can have it too

In 1 vs 1 it is hard to go against a mesmer. With condi i usually target it and then i try to condispam with eg and after this i switch to nades. it is an hard matchup. I use box of nails for crippling and nades to aoe clones but it is quite difficult to win. It is easier if i attack the mesmer…. if i get attacked … it is a lot harder . With maradeur i play hgh with toolkit elixir S elixir U,H ( strange i knwo) . I pop my elixir, go in stealth pop elixir U , rifle 2 toolkit 3 smesh smesh smesh … then rifle 3 5,4 and throw wrench … it works quite well …but it is hard and it works only if I attack the mesmer. If the mesmer attack me quite often i get rekt

i don’t remember, i arrived there throught a post here in any case it was a build based on explosive, alchemy and inventions , with rifle nades, toolkit , eg and mortar. It is quite strong . I tried also maradeur which can be really strong but it depends on what you do. If you go 1 vs 1 maradeur is really strong … for staying in teamfight , in my opinion celestial is better. Celestial is viable in 1 vs 1 too so it is a better compromise

Novuake.2691:

PierPiero.9142:

celestial works really well with rifle in power based builds .

You are living in the past man.

Look at the last tournament in EU for example , TGC for example used a very strong build with celestial rifle. Try it and tell me. ( the credit is of their engi , not mine )

Celestial is quite strong for eng even now. I suggest to look at last tgc match streamed by jebro. You find a really good celestial build for spvp.

Phineas Poe.3018:

PierPiero.9142:

Probably it is a problem of mine but i find flame thrower terrible , the worst engi kit. I really really love tk and eg… and i like also nades…. bombs now have the problem of the radius but for me ft is quite difficult to use. I can not explain you why but it seems to me to be weaker and to have less mobility … no idea why i have this feeling . Eg helps you quite a lot for managing condition. You use EG5 and then autoattack. Autoattack of eg is really really strong. I use to stack weakness with autoattack and then i pass to nades and i can ensure that they hurt a lot in a condi build used togegher . Probably it is a problem of mine using ft … but with it i feel really weak .

The Flamethrower should be used just like the Tool Kit: you use a couple skills, maybe Flame Jet to get quick Incendiary Ammo stacks, and then swap out of it. I only really use Flame Blast if there’s a combo field on the ground that’s worth blasting, and save Napalm, Air Blast, and Smoke Vent for situational circumstances.

I spend the majority of my time wielding my pistols, leaning up a bit into the team fight to drop a Pry Bar or Blowtorch.

I use toolkit a lot. I don’t camp in toolkit but for example box of nails is really strong and every 10 seconds, when i fight against a melee profession (guardian ,warr, thief) i usually switch to toolkit and drop it around myself . I have problem in fight with ft becouse with autoattack i have to stay close, i have problems in blasting skill 2 into skill 4 and the knock back is not that good for me. If i play with rifle and i use skill 4 and you have stability , in any case i make to you a huge damage, with ft i do quite nothing. I go quite often 1vs 1 roaming between points and i tried with ft but i failed bad. Probably it is a personal probem of skill .I would not trade eg , toolkit or nades for ft but perhaps it is becouse i use them since near 3 years

celestial works really well with rifle in power based builds .

Probably it is a problem of mine but i find flame thrower terrible , the worst engi kit. I really really love tk and eg… and i like also nades…. bombs now have the problem of the radius but for me ft is quite difficult to use. I can not explain you why but it seems to me to be weaker and to have less mobility … no idea why i have this feeling . Eg helps you quite a lot for managing condition. You use EG5 and then autoattack. Autoattack of eg is really really strong. I use to stack weakness with autoattack and then i pass to nades and i can ensure that they hurt a lot in a condi build used togegher . Probably it is a problem of mine using ft … but with it i feel really weak .

this is what i am playing now . I don’t tell you it will be the new meta. I only tell you that playing pvp every evening with pugs ( i usually play alone ) it seems to me that it works quite well. I think now power rifle based build are better but i prefer to play with pistol pistol and i find this a viable solution . I tried the power based celestial build copied by TGC engineer and it is really strong ( inventions explosive, alchemy ) but for playing with pistol pistol in a normal ranked match i find this build that i paste quite strong .
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-ZRR;2cPVg0l6gTFx0;9;4jkm;0038157247;9;15NV05NV02o
As sigil i use geomancy and doom usually or torment and doom ( i forgot to select them )

rabid had never had vitality but the classic build 6xx4x. took stats from trait setup and now you have no more this . I agree with you about hgh builds . I usually don’t take explosive but i prefer firearms for IP . Explosive for me is better with power based build .
If you don’t take explosive but playing with nades, in my opinion ( only in that case ) elixir gun helps you a lot. If you play with tool, explosive and alchemy then i prefer to take celestial and rifle for a power build, it works great. With pistol pistol i prefer rabid and in that case i prefer to take fire arms. In this case, for me, eg works better than elixir S ( i use supply crate too as elite with rabid )

I think inventions ( for me at least ) is better than alchemy ( i don’t use hgh) for a simple reason : rabid has no vitality now and no healing power. Inventions gives medkit with bunker down and it permits you to have 250 of healing power . I tried with alchemy but i last more fighting with inventions cause of the healing power. Now backpack regenerator is less strong than before so i prefer inventions for the minor traits that give me more hp. sorry for the bad english but it is not my native language .

In my opinion playing condi with nades and toolkit as before works quite well , probably it is not the best setup for high lvl pvp but for casual gaming i find it quite viable.
The only different from prepatch is that if you chose inventions for IP you have to take Elixir Gun instead of elixir S … the vuln stacking of eg help you a lot to increment your damage. In your build , i tried something similar , losing toolkit now is really (for me ) a huge problem . Box of nail , for the fact that is unblockable is really important when you 1vs 1 with guardians and warriors … it let you put distance within them and you

I prefer power celestial … but between the 2 i would choose condi

mecha leg and bunker down are really strong and they synergies really well with their minor traits

Are you sure the range of the boms area smaller now is a bug ? I would not bet. it is a melee weapon so it has a meaning that it works at melee distance. I did not use it becouse for pvp i found toolkit much better and having toolkit and bombs in the same builds let me out of range weapon .

with conditions now bombs better than nades ? for taking bomb should i take explosive and lose IP and firearm ?

I am not able , after trying it for a lot, to decide which of this 2 builds are better for pvp. Any idea ?
With alchemy
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-ZRR;2cPVg0l6cQ-x0;9;4jml;0038237146;43t0;35NV05NV02S

With inventions
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-ZRR;2cPVg0l6cQ-x0;9;4jmk;0038237157;43t0;35NV05NV02R
The one with alchemy takes benefit of hgh and elixir cd reduction , it is even stronger if you get EG instead of elixir S ( i use it in wvw not in pvp ) but the one with inventions is really good too . Any suggestion or better build without ft ( I hate ft ) is welcome

ellesee.8297:

Obviously if you run a condi build without the explosives tree it will be better! That’s the whole point of the thread! The explosives trait line is just too power oriented that if you take it in a condi build, it will actually hurt your build! But the issue is that the explosive kits are the best offensive kits the Engi has and so you are forced to run explosive kits without the accompanying trait line! That’s just the way the class is designed! Imagine a meditations Guardian without the valor line! It’s terrible!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

I don’t feel nades weak without explosive trait line. It seems to me quite good … so i don’t feel this like a great issue

I don’t feel eng so weak …

In my opinion now hgh works well if you don’t play a build based on it. For example if you play a pistol pistol build classic, with rabid , elixir S and alchemy trait, then hgh is good , expecially if you use mortar. You have elixir S (one in build and one from trait ) and 2 elixir from mortar. You will not stack tons of might but it is a good add on

the only real buff that elixirs need for me is to reduce the cast time

Haralin.1473:

Pure Elixir Build would be elixir h,b,u,s,x

Yes but mortar has 2 elixir too and has no cd … being with only pistol pistol is really hard for me

ellesee.8297:

Hello frands! I feel like we deviated from the original topic a little bit! If you made a condi build that works for you in solo queues, that’s great! I’m all for playing fun builds in solo queues and I’ve made and shared dozens of them pre patch! Against tournament players or against known names and long time good GW2 PvPers, a random HgH FT build or some EG Mortar build just won’t cut it! You’re going to have to run a good build to be competitive against these good players!

Now the point of this thread is that the Engineer absolutely relies on its explosive kits to have any kind of offensive pressure because that’s the way the utilities were made! However the explosives trait line is extremely power oriented! As I mentioned many times before, condi builds not taking Grenade Kit have no option in tier 1, and condi builds that don’t run Bomb Kit have no option in tier 2! This basically kills condi builds for the Engi as they are forced to run explosive kits without the accompanying trait line! Imagine running a signet Necro without the spite tree or a meditation Guardian without the valor tree! While I’m happy that power Engis finally have their chance to shine, I’m disappointed that it came at the condi Engi’s expense!

I also suggested an alternative to stop the explosives pigeonholing! Since the firearms tree is the Engineer’s condi tree, I suggested that we take the two firearm kits, the Flamethrower and Elixir Gun, and convert them into the Engineer’s condition weapons! Basically power Engis will run explosive kits as their main weapons while condition Engis run the FT and EG similar to how power Necros run dagger while condi Necros run scepter! However this route would need to overhaul the kits and their respective traits! Bomb Kit would need adjustments as it’s currently absolutely worthless in any power build and the FT would need to be more condition oriented as it’s currently a power kit (and a bad one at that)! The EG would also need to deal more condition pressure as spamming Tranquilizer Dart is just… lackluster without anything to back it up!

Hope that cleared some things up! Wahoo! Bye frands!

If you take nades without explosive trait, for me at least they work well. I usually play with nades and firearms only ( on condi buidl) and i don’t feel so weak . In my opinion now granadeer is not a “must” for playing with nades so the old nades, toolkit + elixir S or EG or SS is quite viable with rabid .
this is what i am playing :
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-ZRR;2cPVg0l6cQ-x0;9;4jkm;0038157248;9;1cV19cV192T
Kinematic is quite situational so if you want you can take perma vigor from tools and trade adventurer rune for something else … for example balthazar

I usually play with toolkit and nades. I know that they are strong. I wanted only to try something different . I have seen that a full elixir build works better with rifle and celestial. It is different if i swap an elixir with EG. If i play rabid with eg, elixir H B and S with classic hgh ( firearm, alchemy, tool) it is quite strong. The only real real problem are mesmers becouse it is hard to kill clone like you can do with nades or with rifle 5 . The idea to make a pure elixir Build is only becose i am boared to play with nades and toolkit. Bombs in my opinion has now a too low range and i really really hate ft … so it was quite fun to try some very old builds (hgh )

i don’t agree, classic balthazar rabid build with nades, pp , toolkit and elixir S is viable for me . Are power builds better ? in my opinion it depends on who are you fighting against. There are some cases where p/p rabid is really strong ( like against ranger) … other where it is really hard ( necro and condi mesmer for example ) … it depends. Celestial rifle is a more general build … you have not something you can not win like with condi against a necro .. but p/p rabid for me remain strong.

for pve you can play as you want …. even only with toolkit smashing mobs ( i do it for fun quite often with elixir U ) …. for pvp there are quite many viable builds now. As a casual player there are many builds viable ( sd, hgh condi or cele, power (maradeur,cele),ft ) but at an higher level, as for any other profession the top builds that fit a specific rule are not too many. But for a casual pvp player there are really many builds to play now with engi and for me it is a great plus .

Phineas Poe.3018:

PierPiero.9142:

true, infact i don’t take granadeer but i take fire arms. I don’t think now explosive so important. I prefer to play with firearms invention and (alchemy or tool) … but it is a matter of taste. With maradeur you are way too squishy ….

I’m running a variant of Chaith’s build (or at least one he posted last week) that uses Mortar Kit over Elixir X: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-Z70;2cPVg0l6cQ-x0;9;4ilm;0036146236;9;1CoF2CoF2a0e

Marauder is squishy, but the trade off is that your Pry Bars crit for like 5K and two double Orbital Strikes can measure up to 9-10K unblockable 360 radius damage coinciding with a ton of healing. If you need to escape, save Kinetic Battery for Toss Elixir S instead. If you double-up the stealth, 12 seconds with Kit Refinement’s Super Speed off Tool Kit is a perfect disengage.

It is another subject, i konw , but for me Kinetic Battery is too situational . I don’t know when it triggers and i have only 8 seconds to use it … in my opinion perma vigor is better in that line . Even if i can imagine that 12 seconds of stealth is really great
Would not it better to take firearms rather then explosive ? Perhaps no becouse you have no condi damage… so IP is not that strong

true, infact i don’t take granadeer but i take fire arms. I don’t think now explosive so important. I prefer to play with firearms invention and (alchemy or tool) … but it is a matter of taste. With maradeur you are way too squishy ….

i am not so sure that maradeur is the way . In my opinion celestial remain better for 2 reason : more toughness and more healing power

Phineas Poe.3018:

Ezeriel.9574:

Engis now just cycle through all their highest dps skills, and start over. Rotations, rotations, rotations, with no identity.

This is how engineer has always been played. It has always been about rotating between your hardest hitting skills, which is why elixir and gadget builds have always underperformed compared to kit-centric builds.

I will say though that HGH and Static Discharge are a lot stronger than they were pre-patch, even if they don’t compare to bombs and grenades in sustained damage pressure. SD has always been about burst, and Kinetic Battery empowers that even further.

And there has never, ever been a time where sitting in the Flamethrower or Elixir Gun was an optimal play style in competitive modes. Even when it originally had stability the first go-around at the game’s launch, the movement speed reduction made it a situational swap-to kit for stomps or whatever.

In my opinion a full elixir Build with rifle and mortar ( celestial) now can be really really strong. Elixir S, 6 second stealth every 32 seconds , stab every 3 second ,elixir U for quickness and projectile detroyer work great. You need nades at least or bomb instead when you play with pistol pistol … but with rifle you can go full elixir now , with mortar and have a lot of success

Ricky Rouse.1583:

PierPiero.9142:

I tried to play pistol pistol with firearm , inventions and tool ( for power wrench , lock on and perma vigor) with nades toolkit and elixir S , mortar , rabid amulet and balth runes and it seems to me quite viable . Instead i try hgh with pistol pistol and rabid having no control , with full elixirs and mortar, it seems to me really weak .

4 elixirs and pistol is the opposite issue of 4 kits. You need to find the proper balance, don’t go all in one way or the other and be surprised when you get destroyed by the exact thing you didn’t prepare for.

I tried it becouse i wanted to play something different from the classic pistol pistol nade, toolikit + elixir S or eg… i know that builds with 2 kit remain strong

I tried to play pistol pistol with firearm , inventions and tool ( for power wrench , lock on and perma vigor) with nades toolkit and elixir S , mortar , rabid amulet and balth runes and it seems to me quite viable . Instead i try hgh with pistol pistol and rabid having no control , with full elixirs and mortar, it seems to me really weak .

I tried hgh pure elixir build condition with pistol pistol ,rabid , elixir b,u,s and mortar . It is viable but it is a little hard to play only with that. Do you think a celestial full elixir build with rifle could be better ?

in my opinion 40 cd on A.E.D + 90 of AMR make AED unusable. AED is an high risk high reward skill … if you use it and you don’t go down 40 secs are too much . it means that you have an heal every 30 sec (avarage value) … but it is a really an high risk skills. In my opinion they should change the AED CD otherwise they should raise up the lowest value of aed at least for pvp

Phineas Poe.3018:

PierPiero.9142:

AED+AMR was the only thing that let engineer strong in this patch.

There are plenty of good builds floating around right now that don’t use Inventions at all.

I belive you, but it was at the end a new kind of gameplay with engi . Only that , I belive also that invention is still a good trait line : mecha legs and bunker down are in any case really viable … i prefer it to alchemy .

AED+AMR was the only thing that let engineer strong in this patch and it was the only “new viable thing” with mortar .40 sec aed + 90 amr means that every 120 seconds you have 4 aed … in my opinion they should lower the aed cd even becouse aed is an high risk high reward skill …. but now elixir H for hgh builds ( 20 sec) or Hturrets are much better .

this trait now is completely useless …and now aed is useless too ….

Wondrouswall.7169:

Only thing I have to say about Grenadier is that I wish they made the radius increase baseline and the trait increase velocity and reduce cooldowns of grenade skills by 20%. Really miss that cooldown reduction like in the old Short Fuse.

Sorry , i was speaking only from a spvp point of view . In my opinion for spvp firearms is better than explosive