Guild Wars 2

So you were told your playstyle was too OP so you picked the next OP spec?

I didn’t mean to sound rude, just seems…ironic. I hope you find the best in this update, or any other class if you can’t. I truly do, I know it’s costly switching mains.

Still, the general attitude towards Ele’s has shifted tremendously even in these couple of hours. Note how people who don’t play D/D Ele are now seeing it as being brought down to their playing field. That’s what I meant.

@maddoctor
I’d argue Guardian dominates PvE as its the only class you essentially need for hard PvE Content like high level fractals, but I digress. They balance around pvp yes, and I can see why, its more competitive. Meaning it requires stricter and more prompt balancing. Or at least, that’s probably how they feel.

I’m sure the PvE and PvP splits which they’ve stated they want more and more of now as it’s the only way to balance it seems, will help obscene amounts. It did in GW1. Sad thing is, who knows when they will implement?

CuRtoKy.8576:

@PistolWhip

I disagree with mobility. The thing is Eles are really great at healing (water, EA, two heal abilities on D/D or S/D on top of their healing ability). They are great at condition removals and LoS + PbAoE. These factors are to counter their low base armor and hp values (worst out of every profession in the game) and lack of on demand protection (aegis, blocks, etc) outside of Armor of Earth which has a long CD. In most areas they are average compared to other professions. Out of combat mobility I would say an Elementalist’s mobility is slightly less than a warrior, much less than a thief and could be comparable to a few other professions in closing the gap like Mesmers with staff 2 + blink + sword MH. The strong mobility aspect of an Ele just comes from the fact that RTL isn’t affected by chill or cripple which ArenaNet could fix versus just straight up nerfing RTL distance (bug fix) along with doubling the CD in one patch. I don’t mind balance but it would be better if they see how the new distance affect mobility before a 100% CD increase on RTL. Mobility, LoS + PbAoE, along with heals and condition removals, and cantrips are the way that Eles survive defensively in the light of having the worst base armor and hp stat in the game. Now with some of these things being nerfed and nothing else given to Eles people would have to spec even more in certain ways (more bunker? Excala’s new 20 earth build?) or stop playing in certain ways (1vX, roamer are some examples where the Ele will possibly take a hit in WvW). Focus is still not improved, traits aren’t improved to open other options, conjures aren’t good, and other things. So this nerf doesn’t open up Ele builds or make something else great. A possible outcome is that this makes the current build bad and makes other subpar build better because the best build atm isn’t great post patch.

All in all I find that the jack of trades should be that a profession can be good or even great at certain things to counter a significant weakness they might have. In this case, it is low base hp and armor and this can be lessen with the use of like say some heal (but overheal is bad and a waste), some mobility (since they don’t have stealth, juke mechanics [stealth/mesmer portal]), some condition removals due to low hp pool to counter conditions that don’t take toughness/armor into account, PbAoE/LoS to increase the Ele’s defenses by using the environment to its fullest. At the same time, they are average in other areas like damage, range, mobility (both in combat, under conditions [chill/cripple], and out of combat).

The problem is that if you are melee you need mobility to actually do something and at the same time some defenses (jukes, stealth, mobility, heals, blocks, boons, vigor for more dodges). This is like warriors having high damage but lacking ways to even do a small percentage of their damage. Other than that you have to do dps at range where you will take less damage or you will need less mobility because you can use your range to dps someone. Eles need something because their range options aren’t great (not as bad as guardians) outside of group v group or zerg v zerg.

Honestly, I understand that may be your experience on Ele but it is completely different for me. To play at Excala’s level (popular d/d guide author) or even higher it requires a lot of skill. I find thief and guardian to be much easier in WvW PvP than Ele at accomplishing something. A profession that feels slightly harder than an Ele would be a Mesmer to play at Osicat’s level or higher.

To be fair, though it makes sense in theory. Higher Health+Higher armor doesn’t seem like an equal trade off for all those assets. Ask warriors. They have both, and they are the lowest tier in spvp, have a hard time solo roaming in WvW, and only excel in pve due to people standing in their DPS. If AI moved, and dodged their easily telegraphed attacks they’d be pretty useless their too I’d imagine.

Though I guess we disagree what skill cap an Ele has, and thief does etc. You are in fact right they may revert if they feel the changes are too severe. The thing is they did the same thing on thief. They fixed culling and nerfed Thief survivability by 25%. They now have seen Culling was enough to stop all the ridiculousness of WvW thief, and so they are retracting it to 3 seconds revealed again.

Our definitions of Jack of all trades varies significantly. As I view a jack of all trades as someone OK at everything, not amazing at anything, rather than amazing at some things, not too bad at others.

If this becomes an issues making Ele a kitten class like say (Warrior in Spvp currently) I’m sure they will revert some of the changes back. Time and patience will tell I guess.

@Nikkinella

Thieves have had more nerfs than any other classes combined… Someone’s recorded it all.

Thief and Warrior are bottom tier in Spvp right now as rated by the pvp community, check out the easy to find Tier List in the Spvp section as I’am too lazy to link.

@To All

All this now means is, if a D/D ele beats a player in a duel, they will think “Hm, what a skillful player.” Rather than, “LOL, figures he needs that OP spec.”

@Azunai

I’m fairly sure they only reduced passive Signet of Resto in Spvp, where it needed one.

They didn’t nerf Ele heal skills, you just can’t use it now while invulnerable to damage, conditions and cc.

RtL I wager, as hinted in the skill description is only to be used to get to a foe to begin with. Not for extra mobility or escape means.

“To a foe” Maybe Anet didn’t expect this kind of usage and felt strongly against it?

To be fair, you have to trait 30 into discipline, and hardly any warrior does that.

No I know that’s not what he’s asking for I meant in general some form of offensive sustain would be interesting perhaps.

In general, Daecollo makes worthwhile suggestions imo.

Also, your opinion doesn’t mean the end of the world to me, cheers.

I take him seriously. That’s at least one.

Also, I think regen or protection or a burst heal with burst skills would be nice. Would allow Warriors to take a new direction.

Offensive sustain.

Well then I wish you the best in whatever game you decide to play or not

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Lol-ele-forums

Best class in-game? you mean Ele for pvp/wvw? Save for PvE of course, but that’s a flaw with pve mechanics.

To be fair, every other class has to go through the same thing. When they get nerfed they also have to pay for new gear.

Its just an unfortunate thing that happens sometimes, for all.

I’m gonna have to 1+ Blaze for his attitude. Positivity is surely the only way to overcome something.

@Kaleban

I appreciate your experience but I’ve had the exact opposite. The easiest I’ve ever had to play was Ele. I found thief to be the hardest and also quit my thief long ago so I’m not on some alternate agenda here. After a while switching attunes+rotations just becomes second nature and as easy as anything else in the game imo.

PvE is a poor representation of classes, as its to do with pve mechanic and not class balance. As in, why are warriors and guardians so meta in pve? PvE is about dealing the most damage (high hp bosses) while taking the least damage (high damage bosses). There seems to be no platform for any other kind of mechanic of other classes to excel at. So we can agree there but, I take a different view on whats to blame.

As for D/D ele’s I won’t speak on their damage as I’ve had many debates with the people on these forums as to my opinions on them. Simply put, Ele could rival the best on mobility, rival the best in sustain/survive. Still deal very noticeable damage, whether some would call it burst or not. The fundamental problem with that from an objective view was, they were meant to be the jack of all trades, not rivaling the best in 2 areas.

In turn, bringing down the sustain (Water Trait Nerf, though could of been a more substantial nerf imo, but maybe they know something I don’t.)

and mobility (RTL nerf)

Solidifies their ideas on Ele. To be a jack of all trades. To be MODERATELY good at everything, but not very good at anything.

May I ask what the issue will be with RtL? The only thing I can think of it impacting is my overall mobility, as in getting from point A to point B, but that’s hardly something to quit a character over.

RtL won’t go into 40s cool down unless you don’t target someone basically. As it doesn’t need to physically hit, so even if they dodge or block its fine. Its just going to make escapes less assured. Though to be honest, most people give up chase after one RTL anyway. The 2nd one is always overkill, so I don’t think it will effect my play style much.

What do you guys think?

@Thrashbarg
Mist form should allow a heal skill and attacks when when you can CC/interrupt an ele during it, can place conditions on them, and has a 90 second cool down.

Kaleban.9834:

Its sad. For a while out of the gate, Eles were meh. Then D/D becomes popular, lots of people put the time in to get good at it, and the whinefest commences from players too lazy to bring the obvious counters.

I’ve seen people complain MIGHTILY that Eles are OP when these same players refuse or are too inept to interrupt a 3.5 second Churning Earth.

The nerfbat hitting Eles is the result of a lazy playerbase putting all their energy into trying to make a fun class a free kill again. The idea that Eles should be a jack of all trades, good at a lot but not the best is great, IF they’re actually good at everything. But these constant nerfs are relegating the Ele to a bottom tier character.

To be good as an Ele already requires a higher skill ceiling than most, requiring the player to master skill rotations, timing, spatial awareness, etc., etc. An Ele can’t sit still for a moment or be killed. The players that say Eles are OP are apparently just really terrible. And now ANet destroys Eles’ abilities in regards to mobility, healing and protection skills, and soon boon dropping via other class abilities.

So what exactly does ANet envision for the Ele? Are they supposed to be semi-mobile arrow carts in WvWvW, with an extra ridiculous helping of a 5 target AoE limit? The way things seem to be going, Eles will soon have no ability to even duel 1v1, much less the spectacular fights you see on YouTube from guys like daphoenix.

I’ve mained an Ele since I bought the game. Its, up to this point, been the only profession i can really get into, and especially the kinetic and frenetic combat style of D/D was a huge part of that. I am (was) moderately effective with it. But over the last few months, the constant whining from bads about how OP the Ele is (hint: it never was, an Ele had to use every tool available to approach auto-attack effectiveness of other professions), the constant nerfs handed down by ANet, and worst of all the nerfs from ANet apparently being motivated by a whiny and lazy playerbase has left me deeply questioning whether or not I will continue to play.

There ARE many games out there ANet. Consider that before you alienate a portion of your playerbase.

Then what do you propose people who main or play Ele for a substantial amount of time who think they should be nerfed, well the D/D spec in particular are? Just amazingly good players?

They were still one of the best no matter your opinion Sepsis, that’s what I meant.

Something to point out is, Ele’s were never meant to be the masters or one of the best at mobility, survivable etc. They are meant to be kinda good at it all, which they can still be. it just means they can’t be really good at particular things as per Anet’s design philosophy.

@Sunflowers

Its not that weird, they’ve stated before they want Thief to be the most slippery class and thus be able to do such things.

Afya.5842:

PistolWhip.2697:

Last Person standing on my Zerker Warrior=Be impressed.

Last person standing on my Guardian = LOL Yeah, that’s a given.

Seriously though, have you ever tried doing all the dungeons with +4 Guardians. All a balanced mid-support/mid-dps setup? I have….Its ridiculously easy and broken.

We can face-tank most bosses, including Malrona the spider in TA, Frost in CM was particularly easy, and even Arah, Giganticus wasn’t facetankable but, we felt way more in control than before. Like, we weren’t really focusing or caring because we had so many backup blocks and heals to pop.

That’s the state of pve right now, Go heavy or go home. Unless you’re a mesmer in a lot of situations that is.

Zerker war also means you get 30times less aggro than a person with 3k armor. Not that impressive if nothing’s hitting you :P It just depends.

I would assume that’s the case but, you’d be surprised how often Boss’ target me with 2.5k armor, meaning I can only lose their focus by running away.

I believe thieves are moderate combat wise in spvp. The problem for them in spvp really that makes them a terrible class for it is their reliance on stealth to survive, which is no use while trying to cap a point. Dare I say if they released a new form of pvp, besides conquest, there would be different balancing.

Dasorine.1964:

Arganthium.5638:

Lol. There were a lot of hits and misses here. I thought that you used your Shadow Returns very well, and your diversion was excellent. That being said, there were a lot of chances for you to stunbreak via Shadow Return that you missed out on. :P also, can’t believe the warrior decided to try and revive the mes during the battle, lol.

It seems to be something about warriors, almost every thief gib vid I’ve seen where the thief downs someone in the middle of a group fight against them the warrior ALWAYS stops everything to start rezzing…

It seems to be like a big shiny blue light to them…

Warriors can’t help it. They are far too nice, while their brother the Guardian gets all the credit for being nice.

I have to disagree Milo. Thieves are far too easy to kill right now. I literally just ignore thieves if I’m running to a cap point, and then dominate them to the point in a 1v1 that they either leave or get killed.

Only 1 thief has ever beaten me 1v1, and he knows his stuff in a 15 minute duel.

I argue that the fact that thieves have had more nerfs then any other class combined (There was a post somewhere counting all of them) is a big sign that Anet indeed does take what’s being said on the forums too seriously.

As always I agree with a lot of what you’re saying Daecollo :P but for a second there I thought this was about a new armor set idea for Precision, Healing Power and Critical Damage, I’d love to see how that would come into use xD

This idea I like, it would solve the problem of the Omnomberry food nerf to warriors.

D/D is the default choice for many because its a very easy to play spec with high rewards.

S/D is a much harder thing to master with a very high skill cap, along with the fact you actually have to target people and somewhere on the ground pre-preemptively rather than just spam AoE near your target.

That being said, It has been proven to me time and time again that a good S/D can always beat a good D/D.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-Class-Tier-List/first

This seems to be what a lot of people agree with. If you’ll notice, thief is second from last and being considered as a candidate for last. Take it as you will

I’ve never run into a zerker problem. In fact, we exclusively don’t allow zerker’s to be on our teams in my guild when we run, or are reluctant to it (obviously we don’t bar guildies out of content) because they cause so many problems. They die all the time. Speaking from a zerker warrior perspective, I can only efficiently run Zerker warrior in a boss no matter how much I dodge and position, when there are others on the team running support+ durable builds. This is because if a boss focuses you, usually you don’t have enough dodges or time to run compared to how much health they can take. The only time I can survive on a zerker is if I have teammates able to tank the bosses for an amount of time where I can run away and recover and come back to unload more burst on the boss.

Dare I say, the support problem is worse. My friends and I conducted a test you all should try too if you’re curious. We put at least 4 (sometimes 5) guardians with a substantial amount of support in their build, coupled with damaged (whether its boons, healing power, condi removal etc) and did a few dungeons. Normally bosses and mobs that were meant to be tactically thwarted through use of pulling aggros and tactical dodging we facetanked. Lord it was too funny and fun too see that we could facetank almost anything in the game and wail on the boss till they died. Which is usually much faster than all zerker setup cuz we didn’t need to dodge any of his attacks.

Zerker’s aren’t really a problem, CoF is a problem in itself because the path is so kitten easy. But that’s not Zerker’s. A full term of zerker players will go down fast….very fast. Most dungeons would eat you alive, warrior or not, at least that’s all I’ve seen in my experience.

Last Person standing on my Zerker Warrior=Be impressed.

Last person standing on my Guardian = LOL Yeah, that’s a given.

Seriously though, have you ever tried doing all the dungeons with +4 Guardians. All a balanced mid-support/mid-dps setup? I have….Its ridiculously easy and broken.

We can face-tank most bosses, including Malrona the spider in TA, Frost in CM was particularly easy, and even Arah, Giganticus wasn’t facetankable but, we felt way more in control than before. Like, we weren’t really focusing or caring because we had so many backup blocks and heals to pop.

That’s the state of pve right now, Go heavy or go home. Unless you’re a mesmer in a lot of situations that is.

That’s what I said Scoobaniec xD, I think I misundesrtood you?

Oh, well then I’ll get back to you guys very soon, I’d pick Guardian or Warrior probably

In case someone evades it or you miss it, you can’t keep spamming the burst skill till it hits. Because you don’t lose adrenaline unless it hits.

Oh! I misunderstood, I didn’t know it was NA. But I’m not really interested in playing Ele, could you specify which classes are available to play as in NA?

Sorry I’m just a bit confused :X

@Lothefallen

I was speaking in terms of PvE. RA was indeed do-able without a dedicated healer. Monk is just the first thing that comes into my mind, I’d love to see you complete hardmode content in GW1 without a dedicated healer in your party. Whether its Monk, Ritualist, or the cookie-cutter Discordway support. I meant a dedicated healer being needed for content. All those classes you listed could be a dedicated support, Ele’s with their infuse health abuse, Necro’s with their monk skill utilities and ritualist support skills in general. I didn’t like the dedicated healer or tank system end of, which barred me from completing content unless a pug or a friend who was a healer was on before heroes were introduced. Henchman were average at best and often wiped on hardmode content.

I didn’t enjoy playing monk not because it was amazingly hard or I was particularly bad at it, but because I don’t enjoy sitting down looking at red bars throughout a whole fight, only to move or use Bonetti’s Defense when some melee guy focuses me. GW1’s combat as much as I loved that game bottled down to “Kill their monk!”, and it worked 90% of the time.

I’ve seen you before in map chat, and after most people disagreed with you there, you’ve come here. I know you’re a monk and I know you’re bitter they are taken out. This game requires a different sort of depth, like I keep saying its reactionary. You kept saying how you were planning to leave and quit the game, then by all means do so. The last thing I want to play with is someone who doesn’t even enjoy the game.

I hope you enjoy Wildstar I think it was you said you were going to switch to.

I’ll be here with my guild which is awesome. Laughing on our huge family-like voice chat environment at stupid things while running dungeons and appreciating the depth of this game’s reactionary combat whether others can see it or not. Weirdly enough, most of my guildies used to play monks in GW 1, and they can appreciate and enjoy GW2’s combat and aren’t bitter about the lack of monks in this game.

I love the fact I can go to WvW with my friends as a group and encounter another similar sized group and duke it out in a versatile manner, actively deciding which target to focus based on situation and circumstance, rather than the dedicated support all their time as otherwise they wont die. It makes the combat more engaging and active.

And I’d love to run a dungeon with you sometime in a ‘full zerker party’. We could run Arah and see how far we’d get, as I suspect not very far. Its a strategy only adopted in farming CoF, and that’s an issue with the dungeon not the combat.

Who knows, you might even prove me wrong?

You’d be surprised Grounder xD. There’s some nutcase out there that think’s a class is OP for every class. I’ve seen someone say in map chat warrior was OP for spvp 3 days ago

I wish I was in the Eu servers for this but sadly I can’t I’ll be looking forward to watching though! Good luck!

Could you post the link here after?

Engineers are the new FoTM spvp it appears… Turret Engineers anyway, its normal. Once the changes to Engi are common place and people are used to it, less people will play it.

Everything being said in these forums, they are the only class for me where I have 2 of them. (warriors I mean). Try them out again I’d advise. They have a certain charm to them I can’t seem to let go of despite their shortcomings in some areas.

Well, warrior right now is in a bad place in spvp, and that being said I’d go for it. Warriors can be heaps of fun and when played excellently can excel against the odds. Whenever I see a good warrior I’m highly impressed, because it takes a certain skilled player to make that which is nonviable in competitive pvp right now, viable.

You could try a condition build if you’re going sword. I’m not sure as to how effective it is in the long run but I’ve heard from people it can be really fun with a dual sword warrior.

Rangers are becoming very popular in fact. I see a lot of trap rangers/beastmasters excelling in point holding.

TheGuy.3568:

Let sum it up with a quote*.

“Its when a bunker can have the ridiculous mobility, and burst damage 8k (on Fire Grab easy, when you can combo with burning speed) without even having to target an enemy, all on 1 spec which makes them OP.”

Further Q_Q

Typo!

haviz.1340:

My friend has seen 14k backstab with a survivable thief. Too stronk.

Indeed! lol

Yeah, I think they analysed culling as being the issue in the end.

I have stated how the thread didn’t have you as a main focus, no matter how self- conceited you are, I just used our situation as a theme without mentioning your name. Which I didn’t post despite what Lightning Blaze said.

Threatened? Well if you’re really going to press this, I’ll put down everything said, and we can decide who had the hostile tone. All I asked for was a duel.

Me – “Hey there! I’d love for you to show me this amazing setup on a warrior which can kill a D/D ele. Our posts were disagreeable at best so some cold hard testing would sort this out, I’ll be available around the day so, if you can’t catch me today I’ll message you tomorrow etc”

As you can see a firm tone but also very courteous and polite.

You – “test what and where for what reason dude if your going to troll do it elsewhere”

Calling me a troll off the bat even though all I did was ask for a duel, you didn’t outright decline, all you said was basically Kitten off.

Me – “? troll? Your claim on the forums were that you roll D/D eles on many classes. I’d love to see this aspect on a warrior, why are you suddenly so unsure?”

As you can see here your reply has made me somewhat testy but I try to maintain some civility.

You – “unsure of what you talke about wvw how the kitten do you plan to deul going to switch servers?”

Throwing in cusses for no reason, and no from my understanding just plainly taking an angry tone with me for challenging your opinions, not even showing me the courtesy of proper grammar.

Me – “come to spvp, it shouldnt matter, save for warrior damage, but every class loses damage, including my ele. unless you’re FA or KN. And that’s only if you spec full berserkers usually anyway in wvw as a warrior”

At this point I’ve given up carrying about my punctuation as you don’t seem to care for the more cordial side of the discussion either, and by FA or KN I should of clarified I mean’t unless you’re from those servers we can’t duel in WvW.

You – “and really what 2would it prove to me another Dd ele who I lost to or won against isnt going to mean a dman thing”

I don’t even know what you’re saying anymore as it just lacks coherence.

This goes on for a while, what happens is I tell you, you must of lied about warriors beating D/D ele’s all the time and that all I did was ask for a duel and you called me a troll. You reply telling me you can’t replicate the stats in spvp which I confirm is correct but that applies to most if not all builds, as I’d have more healing power+health in wvw, and depending on my set up more damage. You question me about how a bunker ele has all those stats for damage too.

I try to clarify I mean’t two different setups which I take in wvw, you claim I proved you rightand that I inflated numbers, I don’t see what you’re talking about and point out I’ve posted a video for evidence with such numbers.

You end the discussion with and I quote “kitten your duel you impeached your credibility” and block me.

I promptly come to this thread to post that I would like to duel/test with someone the capabilities and limits of D/D ele because I’am tired of rumours and this sort of thing happening on the forums, and place the story, not your name as an example in a small 2 line paragraph.

As you can see, you’ve been substantially ruder to me, and I have the proof to back it up. Bunker ele’s do ridiculous amounts of damage for a bunker, my friend confirmed it, a 8k Fire grab crit is possible, I’ll get his exact stats from him tonight if you wish, but I have long accepted my experiences and yours in game differ.

I’ve given up trying to debate with you, all you do is flame and insult and call others names. Not once in this discussion have I insulted you personally or called you childish as you have me at least 3-4 times. But now that you’re asking for it, you are in fact the one who is being childish.

You keep insulting me and using forms of ad hominem arguments, attacking my character constantly to prove a point and base the content of your argument around. I’m done being civil, you’re a child, probably 16 years old at best, or a very childish and incoherent man. I was trying to hint I wouldn’t like to waste anymore time around this discussion but all you do is demand more. To put it bluntly now, I dont have time for you or your strawman arguments, or your childish attitude, or your lack of proof. I don’t have problems fighting a D/D ele, I just feel too powerful when I play one, and that is the basis of which I try to make each evaluation of balancing. So thank you for the guide link but unless you’re going to prove it to me in-game I’m uninterested.

From now on any post you make will be ignored, so I wouldn’t bother, unless you’re that concerned about what other forum posters think, then by all means spew more venom, but I’m here by done with you and you’re childish attitude. Not even an apology from you at this point is wanted, just stay away from me.

Stability+25% attack boost is really not that much of a boon. It’s definitely useful but, there are far more useful things to take then a 60 second CD IAS skill. For one, condition removal. I hold by the fact that if Frenzy forfeited the stun breaker asset, and lessened the CD but also lessened the damage, it would be an active IAS increase with a low cool down, used to get off various attacks which are right now very easily evaded. 100b is the obvious example of this yes but, auto-attacks which do some degree of damage for warriors can also be evaded by many players, so making them faster with the price of less damage would allow more hits to land on the opponent, meaning it would be a worthwhile or waste of a trade off depending your build, your play style and your opponent.

Endure Pain is like Mist Form, its generally used as an ‘Oh crap’ button to fall back on in case something goes wrong for a few seconds. Even if Mist form allowed the use of offensive skills, I doubt people would use it for offense, as it provides too good of a defense against those few seconds you need to recover and you’re at your most vulnerable. A warrior using Frenzy and Endure pain is very easy to take down I’d assume, that’s 2 utilities wasted if I dodge their easily predictable and telegraphed attacks for a few seconds, all while being able to apply conditions. I mean the only thing that could plant in place would be Hammer CC or Bull’s rush, and hammer has short reach apart from the stun breakable burst skill and the cripple which many classes have active and passive Condition removal for, and if the warrior is also running bulls rush, unless his offset is War Horn, one application of chill takes a good deal of his hp and makes them unable to reach you for many ranged classes and weapon sets.

Like I said I haven’t put much thought into the stance juggling. But most Warrior utilities are indeed useless in the Meta-game, as charmingly as they can be applied to some situations. It isn’t about ruining the warrior, it’s about improving it, if you disagree with my brief thoughts then that’s fair, but how do you propose they fix the sustainability for this class? The OP already highlights in a very well written fashion why the warrior utilities are an issue, and it just seemed to me that if they added these stances as an in built mechanic rather than something you have to maybe trait for (in case you take sure-footed) or not but have to have on your bar, warriors would have more options to use as utilities in new creative ways.

Anything like that, and I’d miss Eviscerate though, that skill is God kitten beautiful

Look, I’m really trying to drop the issue. No matter how rude you have been to me and continue to be. I asked you for a duel you kept insulting me that’s all. My genuine interest in your methods of how you ‘kill D/D ele’s on a warrior all the time’ is what I have explained to be the reason for my interest as in all my months of playing this game I’ve only seen it done once. I removed the initial post ages ago (sadly that doesn’t remove the thread) , so you probably didn’t have the chance to read it, but the majority of the post was me explaining how I wanted to test out the D/D Ele’s limits with willing parties to cut passed all the rumours on these threads, you weren’t even plainly mentioned, I just used our encounter as an example of as to why I wanted to test it out. It’s been dropped, why do you keep replying to an event the other party has moved on from and bumping the thread back up so people keep reading it? Isn’t it in your own words “an insult towards you?”

We had a disagreement, it happens. There’s no need to waste each other’s time, let’s just move on. I have better things to do in life, as I’am sure you do too.

A very well thought out post IMO OP. I think you make a lot of good points. I haven’t seen frenzy on many bars since the nerf, its just not worth it.

And to the above poster, having to take a 90 second cool down skill, which doesn’t even stop conditions being inflicted btw, just for a flat out 25% attack speed increase is not worth it. It wastes 2 utilities of which the warrior already lacks stated in many topics.

I still advocate they get rid of most of these stances and add them to f1-f4, and instead of a burst skill they make the warrior mechanic active stance juggling. I haven’t really worked out the kinks or thought of it in depth but yeah, something like that seems to work.

Also, i’d trade of frenzy for versions of IAS in Guild Wars 1, such as flurry. Where frenzy could be you attack 25% faster but do 25% less damage, or something.

Please just let it go. I’ve moved passed this, I suggest you do too. We just aren’t going to agree on balance. There’s no need to be uncivil.

I only wished to duel because in all my time playing I’ve only ever seen 1 warrior kill a D/D ele. You calling me a troll straight away after asking for a duel was rude. I was perfectly polite and courteous.

I haven’t posted anything about our mishap in 3 days on this thread and I’d like to keep it that way. I wish you well but we just disagree about balance end of.

Nope, honestly. Its the only class I have multiples of now.

Ok I thought you knew what disengage meant. My bad. I can actively attack a zerg and 99% of the time disengage and not be caught by anything save for other D/D ele’s and depending on terrain occasionally thieves.

But you know, maybe you guys are right… Up until now I’ve thought D/D ele was a crutch spec, rewarding simplistic gameplay and all the benefits with no sacrifice. But you guys may be right, maybe I’m just that good of a player, I assume all D/D Ele’s can pull off what I do… My apologies. Thank you for allowing me to see this.

I dunno man, thieves are pretty easy. They are usually so squishy they are one of the easier classes to fight. Even on my full zerker warrior I whirlwind attack once, and they go down mid skill. That is a beautiful skill though.

I honestly think its a L2 kitten ue Moira, but food for thought, if you have so much trouble on your necro among other classes with thieves, maybe its not the thief but the Necro which isn’t suited to counter the thief? (though to be honest, I can’t see why it wouldn’t be with Death Shroud, all that HP which is a direct counter to burst, and all that CC. Thieves only have 1 access to stability, their Elite Dagger Storm.) Baring these in mind, it should be easy to just see a thief coming and plant a well with Chill or, mark etc.

but anyway, the only class I have trouble with is those kitten mesmers >:(

Of course, Its not unbeatable, I just think its Op from an objective view point, as imo it has too many benefits but no sacrifices. It seems to be the benefits allocated from trait trees then anything?

^ I disengage zergs all the time on my D/D ele? What?

I still find warrior charming though its just got so much charisma for a class

@lothefallen

I have to disagree with you on some points there. For one, I’m glad the trinity system is gone, I remember in GW1 I had to wait hours for monks to show up just to do a mission. No thank you, I’d rather not wait for some self absorbed person to enter the mission area so people can bawl at their feet to complete a mission.

Though I much enjoyed the build craft in GW1, and sat there for hours building new specs on my assassin main, I can’t help but say you’re missing or refuse to acknowledge the depth in GW2. Now I’m the first to criticize a lot of things in this game but, combat itself isn’t one. See it has its own type of depth, that isn’t pre-emptive like most games (Guild Wars 1 for example) where its about strategy and planning, putting together a team comprised of pre-made ideas. The depth in GW2’s combat is all reactionary, meaning the depth is all about positioning, movement, timing, momentum etc. Its a more fluid and action oriented depth, based around reacting to your opponent. Some appreciate that depth more, some appreciate the other. I personally can appreciate both, but hate personally the trinity for the reason stated above. The last thing I wan’t in the game is a dedicated healer, because I find playing healer boring and hate it, and I don’t want to wait hours to do a mission just because its mandatory to have one. The closest thing to that in this game is the Guardian requirement in very high end fractals, which I don’t mind.

Yeah, kitten customers for demanding better service! We should just take what company’s give us and keep our mouths shut!