Guild Wars 2

Braxyl
add L&R bumpers?

While I’d love to see this, I feel like it may extend queue times. Due to people getting distracted, forgetting their queued, etc. more easily. Then cancelling.

For example player queues for PvP, starts participating in guild event, world boss, or dungeon.
Then the PvP “ready” status shows up. They can:

A. Drop out of guild event, lose loot, maybe upset people.
Drop out of world event, lose loot.
Drop out of dungeon, lose loot, definitely upset people.

B. Drop out of PvP, definitely upset people.

WvW, gathering, map completion, crafting, mystic toilet, would all be “in the clear” in most cases.

I think beat case would be prevent entering dungeon/fractals while queued.

Toxophile.6215:

I honestly don’t remember exactly where in the Story I was when I stepped away, but it was a while before Lion’s Arch was destroyed even. Ugh. I will go look through the wiki and try to figure it out. I wonder if there is Season 1 stuff I missed too. Thanks for the heads up!

I’m pretty sure you can buy season 2 as a full pack to save some $/gems.

Windsagio.1340:

Quiznos.4296:

This isn’t only a concern for staff/ventari revs, but something I’ve been facing for years as a primarily heals/support guardian.

Support/heals build aren’t rewarding in terms of loot.
most of the time they aren’t even appreciated in party situations; so the old pooling of party loot (as managed by the players) is out.

The exception being PvP thanks to reward tracks.

Unfortunately the “down with the trinity” attitude present in gw2 means dps is king. I hope a net compensates healers/support builds fairly and don’t understand why they’d introduce a profession that’s so support heavy without it…

Who knows what HoT will bring?

If you’re playing support guardian, you should be plunking symbols right in the middle of everything anyways. You should never have any problems with getting tags.

~~~

IN GENERAL

Short version: You’re carrying 2 different legends, switch them the way you’d switch a weapon. That’s how the system is set up.

Sorry, I didn’t mean tags was the issue, range is (soon to be fixed by LB?) But more so when it comes to event “participation ratings,” which from my understanding is damage based.

I’ve definitely noticed time of play having a HUGE influence on whether it will be a blowout or not.

I see no correlation between personal points and team success. In the past I focused on points denial, not scoring myself. Had ~60% wins. A defensive, but sound strategy.

Or at least it used to be. Specializations patch messed up my bunk guardian really badly though… Now… Now I am trash with wins ~30%

I think if you give it time, let people like me drop down in match ratings, or “get good again” it’ll balance out a bit more.

In another week I think matches will be better matched, but only as good as they were pre specializations patch.

I don’t expect very many games to have a <150 point differential ever. If they do, it’ll be a rarity.

It’s original design allowed those who logged during when living world was first introduced received access for free, you missed it, so instead of it being completely SOL you’re allowed to purchase it for a nominal cost.

It isn’t necessary by any means unless you want the achievement rewards, nomads ascended mostly.

This isn’t only a concern for staff/ventari revs, but something I’ve been facing for years as a primarily heals/support guardian.

Support/heals build aren’t rewarding in terms of loot.
most of the time they aren’t even appreciated in party situations; so the old pooling of party loot (as managed by the players) is out.

The exception being PvP thanks to reward tracks.

Unfortunately the “down with the trinity” attitude present in gw2 means dps is king. I hope a net compensates healers/support builds fairly and don’t understand why they’d introduce a profession that’s so support heavy without it…

Who knows what HoT will bring?

Love staff 3&5 I like 1, but needs a bit more speed.
dwarf stance is solid, no work needed.
ventari tablet is good, but needs larger surround/bubble range.
I love that it doesn’t move! Leaving it on a cap point or near supply, then popping it for my allies there while I’m moving to or at a different point (or after res) is awesome.
being able to pull with 6 all the way across the map, for fire specifically, and healing on the way is nice too.
armor is awesome!

More legends
Not
More utilities

More weapons
Not
weapon swap
I suspect additions will come but a net is avoiding spoilers.

Kind of silly to do beta testing of an incomplete product…
I can’t confidently provide feedback when in the back of my head I’m thinking we might get 3-4 more weapons… 3-4 more legends, which will add weapon/legend specific traits, which means removal of some of the current traits.

Mobile about to die… More to come*

My initial thoughts I only played PvP because pve seemed silly at already 80, and I’m not a wvw kinda guy.
I agree that staff 1 needs more speed.
I love staff 5!!!
Tablet took some getting used to, but works well enough.
taunt seems good as is but shouldn’t exceed 3s at any point.
I’m ok with current legend load out, don’t need the extra utilities but I’ll take em if offered

old tome was a bit OP, but with the new builds showing up (thief engi ranger especially) it would’ve been about even.
as a result now it feels like its been double nerfed.

Also, can’t see full chain anymore? (in the hero panel)

I want to be able to look at my skills for what they are pre-traited easily, but the minors keep adding stuff!

I find this frustrating. Is there a way in game to essentially set everything as “off” or have no specializations selected?

If not, can there be, please?

Maximum Potato.5923:

I’ve been considering branching in to PvP, but it should be noted that this build would be primarily used in PvE. I have a thing for protecting allies and removing conditions (hence the hammer).

I primarily PvE, just not lately; trying to get all the TA skins for Faolain’s Blossom.
Here’s hoping you find a solid PvEbuild! If you do, pm me, your anti-zerk philosophy aligns well with my own.

Rune of monk.
Water and renewal sigils

My old build (current for now, needs tweaking post patch)
hammer & m/f healing breeze “hold the line” “save yourselves” contemplation of purity tome of courage

Lots of heal, protection, condi removal, retaliation.

It worked for my playstyle, others? Idk.

Traits used to mesh very well with this; going to take me a lot of ‘re-education on the new ones to say the least. Primary use of late was PvP bunker style / rescue missions. PvE, I haven’t had any issues with just about any build, just long fights because of a lack of dps. WvW I don’t play

1. Up to 500hp now. No addl damage.
if you’re playing a healthy guard sounds like a better deal to me…

2. I like the way orb works. Given it’s slow movement it allows me that, albeit limited, way to react to new developments during flight.

Naga.1805:

I was using this signet last night in WvW and either it is bugged, or it is even worse than imagined.

When I moused over the skill on my bar, it said the passive heal for me was 1074. So, I figured that meant when it ticks, each ally (up to 5) would get healed the full 1074 hp.

However, when I looked at my outgoing combat log, it showed that I healed just two allies (probably only ones in range) just 537 hps! It seems like it might be dividing the passive heal by the number of allies.

Anyone else experience this or can further test? I didn’t have a lot of time to dive into the log (I was driving), but after I saw that (and a few horrible attempts at using the active), I took it off and put RF back on…

I’ll test tonight for you, if no one else does.

In terms of range I wish there was a way to see your passive range, like tornado. I’m really bad at gauging what 300/600 really means
Does the blue foot circle match the passive range?

I think if they cut it down to 3.25s it would do the trick.

Or instant activation… I’d be totally fine with that too

Aeolus.3615:

Quiznos.4296:

Activation time is way too long.
Almost impossible to pull off in PvP unless you start from over half health…
before:
1 sec cast time = stability
2 sec cast time = 3 sec daze (pacifism)
4.25 cast time = full heal
Addl healing after the full heal. (Unnecessary ish)

Now
no stab
no daze
Same activation time? How am I supposed to survive 4 sec without getting interrupted?
I mean, by the time I have to start the heal I don’t even need it.

i could say use stability but, a 4 second cast time might mean your party is already dead, and stability is overwhelmed easilly.

It is a weak skill overall.

Stab is one thing, I can swing that. No problems there.
It’s just that that combined with 3 seconds of daze made this more like a viable 7.25s (that you could actually pull off from 1/4 health) full heal.
Now it’s shorter activation but people can continue blasting you for the full 4.25 instead of the old 1.25s (4.25-3 daze), either killing you or interrupting.

Activation time is way too long.
Almost impossible to pull off in PvP unless you start from over half health…
before:
1 sec cast time = stability
2 sec cast time = 3 sec daze (pacifism)
4.25 cast time = full heal
Addl healing after the full heal. (Unnecessary ish)

Now
no stab
no daze
Same activation time? How am I supposed to survive 4 sec without getting interrupted?
I mean, by the time I have to start the heal I don’t even need it.

Kill.3458:

Congrats thread for getting this far, was nice to read and argue with you people

This is what makes us one of the best communities in the MMOverse. The fact that we rant and rave is OK from time to time because 1. We do it because we’re passionate about and love the game. 2. In the end we can all be happy and get along!

????

THANK YOU FOR THE RESPONSE!!!
1 Character slot isn’t what I wanted… But I find it acceptable. Thank you for listening. Ultimate will be purchased shortly.

Can a red shirt please post a link to it here for easy findings, just in case other people look here and not on the main site?

“In the future, if we release further Guild Wars 2 expansions, we plan to offer all of the prior expansions, the core game, and the latest expansion for one single purchase price.”

I would like to see this part ammended, "… For one single purchase price for newcomers. As well as some sort of additional perk/bonus for existing players. "

EDIT: speeling… I was too excited!

xbutcherx.3861:

Quiznos.4296:

xbutcherx.3861:

Quiznos.4296:

Greymelken.1892:

I stopped reading when you said Anet pricing.

NCsoft pricing would be more accurate.

Think about that, kittens. Think about that while you whine and cry to Anet about how bad they are treating you.

They just make the game, they dont sell it to you.

Nothing about HoT mentioned on NCSOFT’s site.
Arenanet announced the packages, not NCSOFT.
NC and their shareholders certainly influenced/set pricing, but it’s definitely A net who is responsible for marketing/securing the sales.

T

Here you go!
Ncsoft first QT 2015

I’m not sure why you’re giving me this?

Read educate yourself, marketing maybe from Anet but budge wise is from Ncsoft, Ncsoft owns Anet and this game and they are the ones calling the shots.

So you quoted my post, but didn’t read the whole thing… I’m aware, and in fact pointed out that NCSoft would be the one’s setting the price and “calling the shots.”

Please re-read my post

xbutcherx.3861:

Quiznos.4296:

Greymelken.1892:

I stopped reading when you said Anet pricing.

NCsoft pricing would be more accurate.

Think about that, kittens. Think about that while you whine and cry to Anet about how bad they are treating you.

They just make the game, they dont sell it to you.

Nothing about HoT mentioned on NCSOFT’s site.
Arenanet announced the packages, not NCSOFT.
NC and their shareholders certainly influenced/set pricing, but it’s definitely A net who is responsible for marketing/securing the sales.

T

Here you go!
Ncsoft first QT 2015

I’m not sure why you’re giving me this?

mrstealth.6701:

DeadReaper.6527:

mrstealth.6701:

MiniEquine.6014:

At no point did they say not to complain about it, just that, in their opinion, the complaints are somewhat out of hand. Speak out if you feel like it, but it really has gotten to some ridiculous levels (like trying to file a class-action lawsuit? really?). Anet owes us more communication, clarification, and possibly apologies too, but this forum has been almost literally nothing but repeat threads about the expansion price.

For customers that purchased GW2 in the recent months when Anet had been marketing (deceptively) the base game as being required before buying HoT, there is valid reasoning for legal action. That deceptive marketing very likely false under the definitions of US false advertising laws.

You can just ask for a refund / discount in the support area of gw2, they may accord you a way to be discounted for the price of HOT if you pay for the core game now that they give it for free (if you got it in less than a month ago I think)

The only refund offer I’m aware of deletes the existing account, and does not refund any gems/gemstore purchases. So they have to start over, and lose any money spent on gems. That’s a pretty terrible “offer”.

If they were to give these players a voucher/discount code of some sort, I think that would be pretty good.

It’s been confirmed that refunds are being processed for within 30 days purchases, if made on buy.guildwars2.com
At least one as far back as April.
At least two lost no current progress, gems, etc.

Between the many many threads about this, I can’t remember specifically which thread(s) / posts I’ve seen these things stated, but they did have copies of official support responses.

I trust that people who purchased within 30 days have a viable option to get necessary refunds/service; if they contact support.

Doesn’t alleviate my main concern (why is my $50 worth less than a new players?) BUT at least Anet is correcting those who have been hands down deceived by the FAQ. This restores some faith I lost in this debacle.

Talon Silverhawk.3574:

khani.4786:

Talon Silverhawk.3574:

As someone who’s not a great fan of crafting a feel a little ticked off being excluded from a whole tier of weapons and armour unless I grind my least favourite activity for it, please allow ascended to be aquired through other forms of gameplay, doesnt have to be any easier just possible.

You can get ascended boxes from champ bags, lost bandit chests in the silverwastes, fractals, Tequatal, Triple trouble, sPvP reward chests, WvW rank up chests.

I’m sure there are others too.

I have done lots of the above and have never seen an ascended drop, RNGesus should not be the only other way.

You can get ascended gear from achievements too!

ColinJohanson.2394:

This is for weapon and armor currently – weapons use the same recipe as armor to stat change except they use inscriptions to allow you to change instead of insignias.

Alas yes it does destroy the runes and sigils in the item, the mystic forge doesn’t currently have a way to allow us to do this kind of stat changing without it working that way.

Also: Shout out to Matt P and Linsey who did all the hard work to make this possible

I assume trinket’s will remain stat-unchangeable, I’m ok with that (if not prefer it) BUT just wanted to double check / confirm

Greymelken.1892:

I stopped reading when you said Anet pricing.

NCsoft pricing would be more accurate.

Think about that, kittens. Think about that while you whine and cry to Anet about how bad they are treating you.

They just make the game, they dont sell it to you.

Nothing about HoT mentioned on NCSOFT’s site.
Arenanet announced the packages, not NCSOFT.
NC and their shareholders certainly influenced/set pricing, but it’s definitely A net who is responsible for marketing/securing the sales.

The company I work for is owned by another company.
But when a customer comes to the door, or calls in, you bet your kitten I fix their problem(s) because it’s my kitten job!
Yes, there are strict margins to meet, and guidelines to follow.
but you know who gets fired? The guy who loses customers, whether he followed the guidelines or not.
you know who get a raise and the corner office? The guy who pointed out the problem with the guidelines that were preventing growth; and then signed a large account or valuable retainer(s) as a result.
In the end it is Arenanet’s problem, NOT NCSoft’s, to generate product, profit, hype, and to solve problems. NCSoft provides nothing but capitol, budgets, and goals in order to maintain overall success across all entities they own. As a result they likely have a set of strict rules and guidelines, BUT it is Arenanet’s responsibility to act a liaison between their source of revenue and their source of capitol. This may mean some disgruntled customers, OR a disgruntled parent company.
I just hope they think we as customers are worth it. And go to battle under our banner. I also hope, and truly feel, that we as a strong community of players will make that potential fight have an outcome in Arenanet’s favor.
Heck, if it came out that people at arenanet went out on a limb for us, the customers, and as a result got dropped by NCSoft and went out on an independent venture a mass of people would gladly flock to their new game on principle alone. Voting with their wallets, just as we are now.

Vax Tezhme.7128:

Edit: cut out top piece

People forget that they aren’t buying a product – they are buying a service and an experience. When I spent $60 three years ago, I also bought 3 years of unlimited server time.

If you were to value that server time at the cost of a typical MMO’s monthly subscription, I’ve gotten $540 dollars worth of access to the game, opportunity to play with other people in the game, and all of the content updates that happened in that time. And I will continue to compile that value in the basic game from now until they stop offering the service.

That’s $540 worth of value that someone buying the game with HoT will never get. They can’t play the Lost Shores event. They can’t attack the Marionette. They can’t raid the Tower of Nightmares. They can’t vote for Ellen Kiel. They can’t fight for Lion’s Arch. They can’t help take down Scarlett. They can’t play Super Adventure Box.

Sure, a lot of that content might come back. Or it might not. And even if it does come back, it will something different. And they wont’ have my experiences.

I know I’m buying service and experience.
my experience of late has been… Underwhelming… Due to poor service. I and many others have lodged complaints, no response in 5 days. This is BAD service.

Don’t compare the value of this game to others as a means of justification. I don’t think other games (subs) are fair to consumers, so I don’t buy their products.

Just because other people feel it’s fair for other companies to take advantage of them doesn’t mean it’s fair for this company to take advantage of this community.

The amazing service and experience I’ve received from arenanet in the past has caused me to hold them to higher expectations. They are no longer living up to these expectations, they are lowering my expectations regularly of late. What others do I will not compare them to as they do not provide a similar enough product or payment structure at this time. I am very loyal to this brand, and would appreciate if this brand was loyal to me.

Roxer.4609:

There is a lot of harsh words towards Anet pricing as well as veteran players bringing up this issue, while $50 is hardly surprising for the expansion price tag.

The thing is, I was not that sure myself if there is that much of a disbalance between HoT value for a new player and an existing one, so here’s the math; correct me if I’m wrong:

• Roughly estimating content amount by the number of pve+pvp+wvw+instance maps, HoT expansion accounts for about 15% of it.
• Value of the entire game content (HoT+core) varies from person to person, but let’s say it equals the price tag: $50; you can recalculate it if you wish, saying that the content is only a fraction of the price, but that kinda makes things worse.
• What new players receive (but existing accounts don’t) is 5 character slots, bank slot, and material storage. Existing accounts can buy it in the gem store for 5400 gems, which is valued at about $65 on BLTC.

So by this math, paying $50 for Standard Edition GW2 HoT, the value received

• by a new player is a full game plus digital goodies = $115
• by a current player it is just HoT content = $8

It’s probably something like this math that makes vet players go bonkers, especially combined with the thought that it’s the same players who covered all the expenses of the game so far.

Well, I plan to get the expansion anyway, since it looks like HoT is pretty much mandatory if you want to keep enjoying gw2, which obviously makes it of greater value, but I do understand now why so many people voice their discontent.

If you’re interested in hearing the many opinions from people who both think this is "really that bad, or not. Please, for the love of God don’t be lazy and create another thread.
Just read this one https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-Price-Feedback-Base-game-included-merged/page/94#post5185060
It has almost 100 pages worth of information likely to answer your question, OR act as a place to ask further questions if needed.

Kumion.7580:

IchbinVol.5407:

Kumion.7580:

If they had simply given veterans the “free” core game with the expansion, veterans would’ve handed out the core games to their friends like candy. “Try this game! It’s really fun and I just got an extra copy you can have!”

Instead, they are NOT giving the “free” core game to veterans the same way they’re giving it to new players. Big mistake, in so many ways.

I think the reason behind that, is that they don’t want vets selling their keys, and making money.

That is likely part of Anet’s reasoning but if the core game really is “free”, it shouldn’t matter.

Haha, also a fair point!

CORE for Everybody!!!
[Insert Oprah meme here]

IchbinVol.5407:

Kumion.7580:

If they had simply given veterans the “free” core game with the expansion, veterans would’ve handed out the core games to their friends like candy. “Try this game! It’s really fun and I just got an extra copy you can have!”

Instead, they are NOT giving the “free” core game to veterans the same way they’re giving it to new players. Big mistake, in so many ways.

I think the reason behind that, is that they don’t want vets selling their keys, and making money.

This is a fair point. But even with that in mind. A referral program would’ve been a great idea…. oh well, maybe on the next xpac…

sniperman.1738:

Well imo as a veteran player I personally don’t care that new players are getting the core game for free. Because my mentality is good for them, thats more people to play with and maybe more new people for my servers WvW. To many Veterans are outcrying that its not fair like a child, however what they don’t realize is that this deal could gain them new players in there guild, new players for there wvw environment and so on and so forth. Plus lets be realistic most expansions are 50 bucks or more. Now on that note I don’t know i’m a veteran myself and just disappointed at the other veterans who would be so hard headed and selfish as to hinder the chance for our community to grow.

My guild is full, I don’t play WvW, most if not all servers/worlds are “full” or “high” population I believe, and the mega server system in place combats low populations.
I’m ok with the game growing. But for me? No, I don’t need it to.
I’d certainly like it to, don’t get me wrong, but I’d rather get a core key to give to someone I know I want to be a part of the community I play with. Not some random bloke who may leave a month in.

Straylight.7529:

Gehenna.3625:

Straylight.7529:

Ragnadriel.2879:

Almost completely stopped playing due to lack of content, and now you have ensured that I will definitely not be coming back. Bye bye!

By giving you more content? The very lack thereof that made you almost stop playing?

Jeez, the logic of some people..

Except they’re not giving it. They charge the price of a full game for it. It probably has less content than a full game and they ticked existing players off by throwing the core game with it for free for new players but not giving them a discount.

Did you expect it to be free? Of course you have to pay for it.

“It probably has less content”. Yeah, you don’t know how much content it has, no one knows.

They didn’t tick me off for giving new players the core game for free. I’m actually happy for the new players. It helps the game to grow.

If the goal was to grow the game they could’ve done a simple $1 off expansion for each core sale referral. And left core cost at $5. They would’ve not only gotten people to strongly promote the game (in an attempt to get HoT for free) for them, but they would’ve made significantly more money. Instead of $0 for core, even a single referral would bring in $4. And HoT could’ve stayed at $50.

Gern.2978:

I don’t know how many times, or how many ways I can say this: Tequatl, 3 headed jungle worm, the marionette, these Are not Raids. They are open world content. I don’t see how you could believe they are raids. They aren’t instanced, so any one can come or go from the event as they please and it own’t really effect the outcome. They are not very challenging and require little or no group cohesion, communication, or organisation, because they have to be like that since they are open world content. If open world content was as challenging as a raid, it would never be completed; you can’t organize an entire server of random people who aren’t in a group and don’t know who you are, nor is it fun to try.

Raids are basically dungeons, they are instanced content, but require a larger group to accomplish than 5 people, usually between 10 and 25, and are thus much more challenging than dungeons and a greater social experience. They allow a guild as a whole to feel more accomplished, rather than just 5 people in the guild at a time.

If I’m not mistaken the first defeat of teq took quite a bit of time.
Then it ran into the same problem as the dungeons have, and “raids” will.
people found/find ways to complete it so easily, so efficiently, that it becomes faceroll, to the point of 1-2 players actually “working” and the rest auto attack afking.

Tarnicus.2865:

gryph.8734:

warbignime.4610:

You could get refunded if you bought the game within one month. Dev will upgrade your account to HoT version without losing progression.

Not what I heard. My understanding is that you lose everything in the process of that refund, including accrued gems and character slots. Then you have to start from scratch with a fresh account and five blank toon slots.

Not according to the reply I received from support when inquiring about this matter:

“Additionally if you wish to repurchase the game or the expansion at a later time, you will be able to add the code to your account and pick up where you last left off so that you may not loose(sic) your progress.”

This is good to hear!

Tirien.1326:

gryph.8734:

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Why would you even pay 60$ for the base game? You can get the base game for 20$

You won’t have that option when HoT goes live. Early adopters will end up paying about $100 for the same content that the new players get for $50.

If i buy WoW today i won’t have to pay what someone that bought every expansion on release would have to pay. If i bought a brand new computer today, mark my words within 3 months the price will have gone down, that does NOT mean i will get my money that i supposedly “lost” back.

I do think however within 30 days it’s reasonable to get your money back, so you can buy hot, but you will lose your account. Resonable and fair.

But to believe that you will get back money from 3 years ago, you are living in a dreamworld and have little to no experience. And to believe that somehow just because you bought the game 3 years ago, you wil get the expansion for free.

I mean what’s going on here? WoW has sub fee’s and still people buy their expansion and there’s not any bs over there, yet in Gw2 a game you can play how much you want for a reasonable price it get’s torn to pieces?

Something is wrong here.

GW2’s original model attracted us cheap curmudgeonly kittens.
it’s not our fault we’re kittens and penny pinchers; it’s theirs for being so out of touch with their community.

Razor.9872:

RabbitUp.8294:

Razor.9872:

Yes, yes they are just giving you the option to buy the set of tires. You are just confused because the tires are the same price as what you previously paid for your car. You are not forced to buy anything. Hell, by all means, if it makes you feel better in the slightest, then just wait a while for them to release more information first.

Another anolgoy? Alrighty, here goes… :P

The thing about this magic ketchup is it doesn’t show up unless you have never eaten a sandwich before (feaking creepy ketchup).

It’s always saddening to hear good players such as yourself leaving, but I can’t — and won’t -- hold you back. If anything, I hope you find what you are looking for :\

Besides the fact you ignore the shady FAQ business, you completely fail at basic economics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_ain't_no_such_thing_as_a_free_lunch

Nobody gives you free cars. There’s a production cost for these cars, as well as an opportunity cost, as the company could sell them for a profit instead of gifting them to you.

You cover these costs.

And while Anet doesn’t sell a physical product, they would still be losing money if they gave GW2 away for free instead of selling it. Instead, the $50 price tag covers both games, with veteran players paying more so that newcomers can get the bundle cheaper.

This whole bet of their relied on marketing smoke-and-mirrors to work. Thankfully, a good portion of the playerbase have above average understanding of economic principles and marketing tricks.

I’m not ignoring he shady FaQ issue, it just didn’t come up. While I agree the issue was wrong, I think we each see it in a different light. I believe A-net was trying to do good by correcting their wording. However, they did do in a silent and communication-lacking manner that was a poor decision in hindsight.

Lets be clear with one thing. I am not failing at all in economics. If anything it is you who has failed to comprehend something. While this rule you mentioned may hold true for many things, it did not for HoT. You see, the price for the expansion was already set in stone before A-net decided to include the vanilla game. If you look back through this thread, you will find the quote I’m paraphrasing (on mobile so I will try to get it later). I have also heard rumor that this deal is only temporary. We are not paying for this deal because A-net made the economical decision that they would make far more base sales, and thus far more future micro transactions, if they structured this deal so. In other words: as long as the free lunch makes people buy more sandwitches later, the future profits will be higher and pay over the cost loss that occured from the original gambit.

True, the overall strategy is a “trick” to get people to pay more in the long run; but I do believe A-net’s true intentions were to make it easier for new players to join the game.

This just made me realize that Anet/NCSoft/Nexon is using the same sales tactics as crack dealers.
Existing users, addicted, will buy anyway, even if being ripped off. They’ll make whatever excuses necessary to support their decision to keep buying.
New users get the first one free, then they’ll buy/get ripped off with the next transaction.

Granted while this is a successful sales tactic and occasionally used in other subscription based zones (cable, internet, first time home buyers $0 down, Wildstar’s new F2P model). It really shouldn’t apply to B2P.
If the content is worth it, people will pay for it. Don’t give “extras” to a base package, as that makes me question, is it really that bad that people need extra incentive to buy even the cheapest model?
This like Daewoo’s buy one get one free deal. Trying to think of the last time I saw one of those on the road…

gryph.8734:

Quiznos.4296:

Well, you both have a point. It is corporate mumbo jumbo, and that’s how the real-world works.

If you feel you need to further discuss HoT + Core inclusion, please stop by https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-Price-Feedback-Base-game-included-merged/page/92#post5182121

And/or contact support, try for a refund. And then by HoT

I’m not going to ask for a refund for over two-and-a-half years worth of time and money I put into this game. If I ever feel like my concerns with HoT are sufficiently addressed, I would not rule out buying it. I have no intentions of permanently leaving GW2 altogether. That said, I don’t think Anet could have handled this controversy any worse. The silence is deafening.

I’m on your side!
But the question of this thread has been answered.
If you want to discuss the pricing structure I’m only reccomending you do it in the right place. (Or risk this getting merged in, creating further incoherencey)

Well, you both have a point. It is corporate mumbo jumbo, and that’s how the real-world works.

If you feel you need to further discuss HoT + Core inclusion, please stop by https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-Price-Feedback-Base-game-included-merged/page/92#post5182121

And/or contact support, try for a refund. And then by HoT

Simple “server maintenance” cost research.
Aion, Wildstar (soon), Lineage, Guild Wars.
None of these have sub fees. None of these are selling very many copies. It is not costly to “maintain servers”

Null Shock.3745:

I get the whole bit about wanting a free character slot with the basic package, but people complaining about paying $50 for an expansion of a MMORPG with no monthly fee. I am willing to throw down cash that 90% of the people complaining buy gems with in game gold, or at least haven’t spent over $20 Real world money in the gem store. . .You sound like entitled brats. The $50 dollar price is fair. Think of it as paying the monthly fee for the last however many years you have been playing. Even then you would have payed a lot more in subscription fees in a lot of cases(Like people who have been playing since GW2’s launch).

I also have read things about the Final Fantasy expansion being $40. . .They also have to pay a subscription fee. WoW expansions were about $40 at time of each release, plus the subscription fee. Do any of you know how much goes into development? Server maintenance? $50 is a small price compare to other MM The only thing I agree on is that all versions of the EXP should come with at least one free character slot(Maybe 1 for the basic, 2 for Deluxe and ultimate. . .Or just one across the board.)

No you are not paying for GW2 twice, you are buying the kitten ed expansion, noobs get the core for free, which is good. We have an awesome community, the best in any MMO I have played as of late. I am proud of our community(Not when this topic comes up though.). If this monumental fail of a topic was not an issue, you all are likely great people to game with. . .Hell I may have played or talked in map chat with a few of you in the Silverwastes,Lion’s Arch, WvW, or World Boss Runs. So Decide, buy it, or don’t. . .Just stop ruining the forums, and map chat. If you have issues take them up with support.

This is all I want to say regarding this topic. I will not argue with anyone about this, so if that is your intent, do not expect me to reply. Though I hope to see you in game.

The “server maintenance” argument is flawed. Countless studies have proven this, yes, I’m too lazy to post a link (much in the same way you were too lazy to do the research)
Cost of on release core + HoT vs WoW w/draenor and sub about the same. As sub isn’t even necessary with WoW anymore and you can buy game time with gold. Even with sub its 11¢ more per month for WoW than GW.
A good portion of people don’t feel price is the issue.
I’m also glad new players have additional incentive to buy HoT.
It would just so happen I think my Ulysses is worth just as much as a new players. It seems to be EVERYWHERE else in the world.
Exceptions being when it comes to subscription services. But this is rather vehemently not a subscription, and thus shouldn’t share similarities.

Gallahad.9834:

So with this new expansion it includes the core game as well as the expansion? So in other words i just paid $60 for GW2 when i could have gotten it AND the expansion for $50 if i had just waited? or is the expansion JUST the expansion and not include the core game?

Per Regina The expansion costs $50. The core game is included as a free gift to new players.

“Just paid $60” how recent is “just paid”
…I’m pretty sure core hasn’t cost $60 within the last year, could be wrong though…
Either way, looks like if you contact support they will refund you up to 30 days(and completely close your account, including the gw1 link of applied); at which point you can pre-purchase HoT, which includes core.

Per arenanet/staff/knights, you would not be buying core at this point, but getting it included with your HoT purchase. It is very important to remember this fact, that core will be given to you, free of charge, valued at $0. Otherwise, you may get upset.

Treetoptrickster.4205:

Guys, the community is more toxic than it’s ever been. The cause is the price tag for HoT being more expensive than we would have originally thought and more expensive than some can afford. But please, can’t we stop with all of this threatening and hate? If you can’t afford the expansion pack, I’m sorry. I don’t mean to be mean or unsympathetic but things cost money. Gw2 has no subscription fee and this expansion pack has no doubt been a huge drain of resources for Anet. They have to get their worth out of it. Just wait until it goes on sale or save up if you really need to get it. If you don’t think 50$ is worth whatever the expansion pack contains then just wait until it goes on sale or don’t buy it. Anet has been busting their kitten to offer all of this new content to us. Can’t we all please return some respect for their providing us with years of free and enjoyable content and what will no doubt be an extremely awesome expansion pack?

I’ve not seen a single threat outside of people talking about taking legal action, which I think is more of a "_technically_ we could… " / idle threat conversation than a “I’m suing anet!!!” threat.

A lot of “hatred” also seems missing aside from people who hate the elitist/entitled vet crowd.

Take a step back and think about it. If we didn’t like the devs, didn’t like the first almost 3 years we’ve gotten, would we be here, 4 days later still posting?
I’m pretty sure most if not all of the people who don’t like GW or Anet aren’t posting anymore.

The cost: Yes there are some people who can’t afford it; this is true. It is most definitely not the majority of those complaining. It is rude to both parties to “lump them together.”
I agree that arenanet has undoubtedly put a ton of resources(cash) into the development of HoT.
I know that I personally never asked them to, nor did I ever want them to, I wish they put resources/revenue back into the core game as they originally promised when I originally pre-purchased CE of GW2. I was willing to look past this, and she’ll out some dough on HoT anyway.
Until I saw that my $50 was worth less to Arenanet than a new players.
I, like many others, simply want to be treated fairly.

You do raise a good point of respect being a two way street. The thing is those of us speaking out didn’t decide to do it at random. And at least half of us don’t care about the cost one bit.
If HoT was $10. And new players got HoT+core for their $10; while my $10 got me HoT only, I’d still speak out. As I am being disrespected; if responses to arenanet’s actions are offensive, then please, feel free to report posts, the forum moderators (arenanet) will take it from there. There is no need to create a thread about it.
all you are accomplishing is stirring the pot.

Unfortunately, people keep creating new threads instead of discussing the topic here.
If people want to make a lot of noise post hundreds of multiple threads.
If people want to be heard post here where it’s been indicated the “team” is supposedly following along.

Hopefully they are following this thread, weeding out the greiffer comments, and preparing to make some kind of appropriate communication, and take appropriate action.

Here’s to hoping it’s resolved Monday in some form or fashion.
Tomorrow? Go buy your dad a tie, or a. nice pair of socks. Cliche, but seriously, find me a dad who doesn’t like a tie and/or socks!

And then after enjoying that which is the world of ties, socks, grilling, and a game of catch… Announce the following:

“In hindsight, we will provide existing players with an additional core key that they may gift, or use themselves”
OR
“We will now be including an additional 2400 gems for all existing players that purchase(d)”

Out of curiosity, how would people feel if at release the base package sold included 5 character slots for free? As an incentive to increase the population in HoT content and a gift to people new to HoT.

CrimsonDX.4821:

The funny thing about all of this is that you people are complaining about Anet betraying you when it is most likely NCsoft, not Anet, are the ones who determine pricing and things like this. NCsoft is a Korean company, and respecting customers is not something they do in Korea.

The company I work for is owned by another company.
But when a customer comes to the door, or calls in, you bet your kitten I fix their problem(s) because it’s my kitten job!

Yes, there are strict margins to meet, and guidelines to follow.

but you know who gets fired? The guy who loses customers, whether he followed the guidelines or not.

you know who get a raise and the corner office? The guy who pointed out the problem with the guidelines that were preventing growth; and then signed a large account or valuable retainer(s) as a result.

In the end it is Arenanet’s problem, NOT NCSoft’s, to generate product, profit, hype, and to solve problems. NCSoft provides nothing but capitol, budgets, and goals in order to maintain overall success across all entities they own. As a result they likely have a set of strict rules and guidelines, BUT it is Arenanet’s responsibility to act a liaison between their source of revenue and their source of capitol. This may mean some disgruntled customers, OR a disgruntled parent company.

I just hope they think we as customers are worth it. And go to battle under our banner. I also hope, and truly feel, that we as a strong community of players will make that potential fight have an outcome in Arenanet’s favor.

Heck, if it came out that people at arenanet went out on a limb for us, the customers, and as a result got dropped by NCSoft and went out on an independent venture a mass of people would gladly flock to their new game on principle alone. Voting with their wallets, just as we are now.

Oh man am I getting rambly… You’re making me feel all the feels arenanet! Stahp!

Otokomae.9356:

Quiznos.4296:

Even still. What like 8 million core copies already purchased?
if they truly planned for 2 million HoT copies… That’s only a 25 customer retention rate. Even less since they’re targeting new customers as well…
A company doesn’t even need good customer service to hit 25 retention… Oh, wait…

Once again, Daewoo Securities has the answer for you: http://www.kdbdw.com/bbs/download/193934.pdf?attachmentId=193934

GW2 has so far sold 4.6 million copies worldwide. The number they gave NCSoft earlier this year (2 million in sales for HoT) was based on previous sales of GW1 expansions in comparison to GW1 core game sales; basically, in GW1, about 50% of core game accounts bought each of the expansions at the time of release. So Daewoo Securities just said, " Well, based on GW1 sales figures, we expect that your 4 million GW2 core accounts should translate to 2 million in sales for the expansion by the end of the year."

So yeah, 50%.

Wow. Thanks again for the info! I wish there was more transparency with information like this.

Based on this theory, a reverse Moore’s law of sorts, and assuming a paid release per dragon and that more dragons aren’t added beyond 6:
GW2 CORE 4 million accounts
HoT 2 million
xpac2 – 1 million
Xpac3 – 500,000
Xpac4 – 250,000
Xpac5 – 125,000
@$50/ea Total $393.75 million spent by players over the course of roughly 12-13 years. +gems +"non-release purchases"

Man… 125,000 people spread across… Idk, like 64ish maps… ~2000 per… Thank god for that mega server system!

I’d be pleased as peaches if this game made it 13 years!!! And I’d love to be a part of the driving force that which is a highly dedicated player base. I just wish Anet would recognize and appreciate that without us, they won’t make it to yr 13.

I’ve given it some thought, if I get a hand written “thank you for playing” note mailed (irl) to me. I will buy ultimate twice, immediately upon receipt, as well as send back a “thank you for giving me something to play” note.

I really do appreciate and love this game, even with its many issues, but I can’t stand that “they” (whoever made the bundle decision) didn’t realize that this, like any business, is a two way street. I feel like “they’re” trying to take advantage of me, and have gotten away with it with others.

It’s kind of like when you tell someone they can borrow your car whenever they need it; and they just grab the keys one day without even asking.

Honestly, if they posted a “Hey guys, what do you think of we have away core to newbies with HoT?” thread prior to just springing on us, I think there would’ve been a primarily positive and supportive response. A few tweaks made to compensate pre-pre-release newcomers (within 30 days) with some gems or fancy ring or somethin.

But they missed that chance… So…

I think the current best solutions are (highest value to lowest):
1. provide everything a core account would get to existing players’ accounts (bank slot, 5 character slots, 250 collectables add-on) or gem equivalent
2. separate out the core key
3. 3 character slots or gem equivalent
4. 1 character slot or gem equivalent
5. Hand written thank you letters from staff (or new players?!!) To existing players.

What course of action do I expect arenanet to take (unfortunately)?
1. Silence, unexpected present to pre orders on release day/last beta. Perhaps specific to existing customers
2. Silence, an actually useful/good birthday present.
3. Silence, no additional measures taken; on release price drop to $40 , deluxe $65, no ultimate package.
4. Silence, hope it just goes away.