Well, if that wasn’t in place, premades will just get scape goats to lose a pip in their stead.
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Okay before you guys start saying that ascended armor takes just the right amount of time Please dont get angry at the people who dont agree with you.
Heres my problem yes ascended armor should take time and defication but should it be so long that it takes some people over a month to achieve. And alot of the time getting it is just saving up the gold and laurels to get the recipes. Now the argument ive been hearing is that ascended armor should take time because it keeps noobs from raiding therefore making a better experience. My counterargument is that logging once a day to get dailies is not a increase or decrease in skill and in fact will let those noobs get to raiding easier. To get to my point is i want ascended armor to not require laurels, but instead some kindve fun challenge to complete with a party of five that rewards the recipes, and then requiring youto still make your own ascended gear. Now i know that laurels are the most valuable currency in the game and all, but i dont believe that logging in once a day to get my ascended armor is fun it feels stupid and grindy two things arena net tries their best to remove from the game.
Now i dont know if my idea is any better but i drastically want this system to change for the better as many cannot experience some of the game without ascended.
You said defication. teeheehee
Last season I got massive loss streaks while in amber, then it went to something stable.
I started in emerald this season and I’m at a 8 loss streak. Then got 2 wins and 2 losses. Hmm.
I’ve never once said that we should remove the score. I agree it is necessary for determining a victor. I said to hide the score, and for it to be revealed at the end such that it doesn’t affect morale. You also said WvW is a game, and there are games that use this scoring mentality.
Of course there are, and there are players who play many of those games who keep score themselves as well. Many players want to see the score and it affects their style of game play. Those who do not can cover it as I suggested. You are proposing taking something from them, they are not proposing taking anything from you, therefor instead of trying to impose your will upon them, simply cover it up, and you both have your way eh?
I actually don’t care either way, I made this topic because a dev suggested people lose morale. Which is true. This is much like how ‘games lost’ has been removed from the statistics in many games, such as starcraft 2, because something so simple, which COULD have been covered, affected morale and lowered participation .‘. removed. It has nothing to do with whether players want to keep it or not, if it affects the game for the better, and I’m only debating that it can, (while not saying it can’t be wrong too) then the devs will implement it.
Now, please, get it through your head, it is nothing to do with me imposing my will or such. Either debate properly about its pros and cons instead of applying inane insinuations on what I have no intention of doing. See how the topic is structured as a question? I did not write ‘cover up the score because I don’t want to see it’.
Cons:
- Removing it removes the competitive and strategic nature of WvW and those players who wish to compete on that level will lose interest in the game mode. Many players do view it as a sport, like all of the other sports they play and treat it accordingly. Simply because you do not, does not mean others do not, so yes it is imposing on them to suggest removing it.
- Some players ( like myself) prefer to play only when the game seems hopeless and want to be outnumbered and the underdog in the fight and do not enjoy playing unless they know they are losing so they have a challenge to change that. Some players like charging in when the rest are fleeing, and fighting under the worst circumstances is what they enjoy in the game and are bored otherwise.
- WvW guilds schedule when they will raid and what they will do on those raids often to how the server is doing that week. If they know they are maintaining the lead, they can relax a bit and have some fun fights and raids and not have to worry as much about watching all the maps and working as hard as they would if they were behind. Some guilds have rules that " check WvW, if it is doing okay, we can go do this instead of worry about PPT."
- Hiding the score just further care bears up the game mode to give some a false sense of “YAY! We’re winning!” even when they not at the same time the winning servers that are going hard will just further run up the score on them due to not knowing when they can let up go have fun goofing off and let the other guys catch up a bit.
1: I don’t think this point is valid, there is still a score, and the competitiveness is still valid. Not to mention, PPT is still visable because of the map. And as to what some players do, well thats what some players do. Especially since thats some and not all. Some people most definitely will do the opposite. Strategy in WvW comes more often from the PPT ticker timer than the actual score itself. The actual score has no bearing on any strategy in the game because the goal always is to capture as much as you can, before the ticker. The overall score only affects morale.
2. Moot point. You won’t know if you are losing or not, and there could be a billion reasons that motivate people to play, yours has but only an equal weighting. Besides, you actually get a buff for being outnumbered. That has nothing to do with the score.
3. Again, this is a point about motivation and incentives. I could say that there are WvW guilds that won’t play because the score is too much of a blowout. Which is exactly the case that a dev raised. How they schedule is up to them, and there could be a billion other reasons for them to participate/not participate.
4. The only thing that would be remotely ‘care-bear’ is if everyone received equal rewards for different amounts of participation. A participation reward if you will. Since WvW rewards are pretty much based on effort and not the final score (which outside of the seasonal competitions means absolutely nothing) this is a moot point.
You keep making WvW sound like an obligation, the motivations for what makes people play are far and beyond what either of us can comprehend with a blanket statement, however, it has been known to be true, as a dev stated, that blowout scores lowers participation. And yes, you can very well argue that close scores may increase participation, I think the former is seen as much greater an issue than the latter currently.
I’ve never once said that we should remove the score. I agree it is necessary for determining a victor. I said to hide the score, and for it to be revealed at the end such that it doesn’t affect morale. You also said WvW is a game, and there are games that use this scoring mentality.
Of course there are, and there are players who play many of those games who keep score themselves as well. Many players want to see the score and it affects their style of game play. Those who do not can cover it as I suggested. You are proposing taking something from them, they are not proposing taking anything from you, therefor instead of trying to impose your will upon them, simply cover it up, and you both have your way eh?
I actually don’t care either way, I made this topic because a dev suggested people lose morale. Which is true. This is much like how ‘games lost’ has been removed from the statistics in many games, such as starcraft 2, because something so simple, which COULD have been covered, affected morale and lowered participation .‘. removed. It has nothing to do with whether players want to keep it or not, if it affects the game for the better, and I’m only debating that it can, (while not saying it can’t be wrong too) then the devs will implement it.
Now, please, get it through your head, it is nothing to do with me imposing my will or such. Either debate properly about its pros and cons instead of applying inane insinuations on what I have no intention of doing. See how the topic is structured as a question? I did not write ‘cover up the score because I don’t want to see it’.
I’ve never once said that we should remove the score. I agree it is necessary for determining a victor. I said to hide the score, and for it to be revealed at the end such that it doesn’t affect morale. You also said WvW is a game, and there are games that use this scoring mentality.
The point is they are different and that they aren’t comparable. Where our big soccerball? Wheres our paddles? Why does soccer only have 11 people a team where as basketball has 5? As someone said earlier, board games are games, and many boardgames only tally the score at the very end.
Oh and this whole lets not compare war thing, get it out the door, theres a billion games out there that emulate war so no high horses please.
The whole ‘soccer doesn’t do that’ argument is stupid. Soccer doesn’t do a whole lot of other kitten too.
Oh hey look at this: one of the oldest games in existence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_
Unless you’re actually good enough to know you’ve been outplayed guess when the score is shown? TA DA. THE END. LETS COMPARE THIS.
WvW is no different than many PvP games where you capture points, flags, or structures, but make no mistake it IS a game, and there IS a score.
The way many play WvW is they look at all maps as being their objectives and hop from each one strategically controlling the playing field by forcing their opponents to choose between which targets they will defend and which they will allow to let go. They frequently make the decisions of which objectives to hit and which to defend or let go based on the structures value to the team and it’s contribution to the score.
The games where people do not actually die are no where near comparable to actual war. In War, when people die, they do not respawn and get back into the fight, they die and enemy forces are dwindled down and you dominate them. You crush them until there is no more opposition. Due to respawning in this game, and war being about crushing opposition and forcing the remaining survivors you did not kill to comply or assimilate it would not be even remotely comparable.
The only games that actually emulate war are games where people actually die.
Games where you can get right back into the game are nothing like war.
You’re proving my point. WvW is WvW, its not soccer, its not war. Just because soccer shows the score doesn’t mean WvW needs to. You’ve made one valid argument for showing the score in this reply and I applaud you for making sense. I was highlighting the point that comparing WvW to a sport is inane, just as you think comparing it to war is, too.
please no. they are lazy enough as is.
Things have changed in a very permanent way through the living story.
The thing you have to realize is that not just you play this game. They can’t have things that are completely permanent in the open world that only you experience. This is why you have events that run on a cycle. The kind of permanency that you seem to be looking for only occurs in single player games.
That could be said about pretty much any game. GW2 is not unique at all in this matter and this whole changing the world thing is just a marketing spiel.
I bought a car in gran turismo, I’ve permanently changed my experience in game by purchasing a car, I now have said car
The point is they are different and that they aren’t comparable. Where our big soccerball? Wheres our paddles? Why does soccer only have 11 people a team where as basketball has 5? As someone said earlier, board games are games, and many boardgames only tally the score at the very end.
Oh and this whole lets not compare war thing, get it out the door, theres a billion games out there that emulate war so no high horses please.
The whole ‘soccer doesn’t do that’ argument is stupid. Soccer doesn’t do a whole lot of other kitten too.
Oh hey look at this: one of the oldest games in existence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_
Unless you’re actually good enough to know you’ve been outplayed guess when the score is shown? TA DA. THE END. LETS COMPARE THIS.
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Sure! Let’s also hide the scores in basketball, hockey, football, and much much more!…
Oh you mean like real war? Since we are comparing and all. Comparing completely two completely different things.
I’m not saying the score is useless, but showing the score only serves as a detriment to the mentality of players because people do give up when the score is too far out stretched.
@FogLeg, gawsh you must be the greatest innovator of this generation, if simply telling people not to do something somehow alleviates the problem the whole world would be problem free now. There’s this stupid mentality that every suggestion thrown on this forum is to stick it to someone else or something.
The idea is that you only see the score at the very end, and with enough incentive and rewards to actually win the match up, people will try indefinitely harder to win.
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Soccer is something that has a much simpler score calculation.
I just gave you a reason to hide it. The devs say people get disillusioned about the prospects of winning (even though they do have a chance to win) based on seeing the score itself.
The comparison of WvW and other sports is illogical. Perhaps we should compare this to a real battlefield, where there are no score indicators either. But I won’t, because that is a different comparison to make. If the devs themselves acknowledge the ‘loss of will to fight’ is an issue attributed to the score, then this is one such solution to combat it.
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Isn’t the argument that people give up earlier when they see the score has advanced too much?
Agree to disagree. If you know what you are doing you definitely don’t need to rely on outside heals. Especially for bosses like VG. The only time you’re really fail is enraged gors.
Yeah, but zealot’s+marauder isn’t zerker. That gives both vitality and healing power, both of which are important for tanking on ele. No one said you needed to go full nomad’s or something and do no damage. You just need to have some defensive stats. And some defensive traits (or a lot of party support).
Ok. I’ve done it with berserker before too. So has many others. Toughness signet tanking is a thing. Just like how berserker main healer tempest is a thing.
A good tank actually does a lot of dps. I tank VG in zealot/marauder, not because I want/need to, but because I can. Ele is great for self heals.
And you only find out at the very end.
if they applied conditions then they’d pretty much be arcane skills
you can still tank as a zerk ele with the toughness signet
More topix like this please.
So you are saying its a good thing that one person can carry an entire group of bads?
Absolutely! Isn’t that the whole point of even bothering to playing a fantasy game to start with, to be the hero?
What other reason would someone have to continually improve their abilities and skills if they can’t directly augment the entire groups chance of success?
Think about it, If the entire groups chance of victory is contingent upon the ability of their worst player, not the best, there is no driving force to improve unless you are the worst player.
Uh, no. If one player can carry the rest then there would be no driving force to improve for the majority of the players since someone else can do everything anyways.
I mean to be fair you’ve made several sweeping statements about the raiding community and raids with very little experience.
How many times would you need to chew on razor blades, before you discovered you didn’t like it?
Hey guys, I decided to try fractals today, so I went into this fractal called Molten Furence. Me and my group couldn’t finish it because we couldn’t avoid dying in the trap room in the end, but I think this fractal is very easy and the Drill mechanic is too boring.
Thetefore I conclude that all fractals are so easy and boring, and I won’t be trying them again.
Also I think that the Ascended rewards should be removed from such easy content, they should only be given for actual hard content, like Tequatl.Btw, organizing a Tequatl squad, req: 10+ Spoons and Sunless title.
So is accessibility and varying degrees of difficulty a crime now in games?
Should you get more than the other players? Yes.
Should you get unique rewards in any game mode? No.Even when I see how this is all sarcasm, I would dare you to replace one of your party with someone who knows how to do this fractal. If you do not manage it then, you should probably ask for a disability discount at your local store. An experienced fractal player can carry a group of toons that are piloted by a chimpansee, a raven, a dolphin and a jojo tied around the mouse through a lvl 1 fractal.
I am pretty sure a single experienced raider can´t pull 9 people with him through raids with a reasonable chance of success.When I started to do Tequatl, I did not even know which successes were there to get and most of them I got by accident. If I had kept them all together, I would own a shop named “Spoonatorium” right now. That title basically kept on hounding me.^^
See the difference? You can come and go as you please from fractals and Tequatl without sinking the ship that is the content. So of course people will be mad when they have to prepare for hours and some people don´t cut the standard in raids.
I think nobody really disputes that raids are harder and less accessible than fractals.
And yes, there are more than enough fractal snobs too.This is a good point, and something I felt was also a faulting on the raids system, individual skill did not make an impact, and what I mean by that, is in a fractal, a single highly skilled player can in fact make a massive improvement in the success rate of most instance based content. In Dungeons and Fractals, A single skilled player, if they have the skills, they could be the moving force behind the victory.
In a raid, that simply does not exist, you could be the best raid tank in the game, and it would not in fact improve the groups overall chance to beat the encounter anymore then if they had a ‘passably decent’ raid tank.
Maybe that is what people enjoy, good for them. Not sure how that equates to the ego that many people have, when in the end, they don’t individually matter that much.
Absolutely disagree. For instance:
A good raid tank will make phase 3 and 5 VG feel effortless because the green circles will always spawn in nicer locations.
Drastic difference between a good druid and a bad druid. Keeping up GotL and actually keeping up with heals makes a big difference in terms of how much leeway you get with bad seeker spawns.
A good healing tempest can DPS and heal.
What I’m trying to say is, many roles in a raid actually have very succinct, individual, goals. And if you are very good at your individual goal, while its not ‘increasing chances’ it definitely is giving ‘more room for error’. Which is essentially the same thing.
Necro is highly desirable in all of salvation pass
Condi Nec is.
Topic is about Power Nec.
person i responded to said necro only
are you using it on fully dead people or downed people?
I have full valks as well, I run rune of the wurm. Its cheaper than scholar and you can hardly tell a difference
- 33k dps that isnt affected by alacrity to me isnt as terrible. Especially as the starting phases are easy – what matters is to quickly kill it at end when its chaotic. But same argument can be made for thief&ele and chaotic means more interrupts on gravediggers :
- A necro in “executioner mode” is dealing less dps than a thief autoatacking. Or ele 3 button overloading.
Yes they are squishier, but our GS and dagger autos have fallen a bit behind, since Anet buffed thief to deal with brokenant.Thoughts?
Edit: its rare for me but this a PVE post.I think power nerco is fine pve wise, its a great solo class and its perfectly fine to bring in a raid. There is usually 1-2 slots in a raid group that are often filled by thief, rev, d/wh ele, etc for just extra dps and are not core pillars of the group. This is where power necro fits in, it’s a very competitive and low in demand spot.
Lol necro is lame in PVP now, and mediocre at best in PVE also. Love it.
Necro is highly desirable in all of salvation pass, and at least second best in slot for condi in spirit vale
Poorly aimed shot.
I’m interested. I usually play late at night after 11 PM PST on weekdays. Can make time on weekends. I’ve beat VG once and have came close quite a few times with pugs. I’m looking to try the other bosses. I’ve watched videos and will do research.
Best to worse classes:
1. full ascended PS Berserker,
2. full ascended Tempest (staff or dagger/warhorn)Dropoff with familiarity after first 2 classes
3. Full ascended Viper/sinister Engi(I know the rotations, but far from perfect executing)
4. Can get full ascended Dragonhunter with mace/shield/ hammmerPrefer to use the first 2.
Your first two classes are perfect for beginner raiders.
Why on earth is the idea that you grab 9 other new players and try and learn the raid together such a mind blowing concept? Absolutely no-one is stopping you from doing this. Why are you expecting 9 seasoned players to give you a free ride just because they are experienced? They had to work hard to do it to begin with.
The ONLY limitation of a raid is that you need the expansion, absolutely nothing else is stopping you.
inb4 I dont do training runs. I hold training runs once a week.
Who is to say the ‘easy mode – same rewards’ system is easy enough for you. What then, you call it too hard and they need to make ANOTHER easier mode with the same rewards? Get real.
yawn. -whatever you say- is nonsense. See, I can do it too.
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Say it took 500 insights to make envoy armor, well you are capped at 1 insight per week in training mode.
That would take nine years to get enough to make the armor. That is a bit too long to be considered anything other than trolling those players.
It is for training after all, and after enough training you should be migrating to normal mode.
No. This sort of thinking REALLY needs to stop.
If you come into this discussion with the idea that whatever alterations result are merely to be used as a stepping stone to the “more important” existing raids, then stop.
Go home.
You have no constructive role to play here because you’re talking something else entirely.
What we need is a fully realized ALTERNATIVE to the existing raids. Not a hack-job joke, not a stepping stone, but a mode that players can be expected to genuinely enjoy as the only version of the content they will EVER experience. Obviously many of you like the existing raids for various reasons, and that’s great, so long as you accept as fact that there are players who will NEVER enjoy the existing raids in the way that you do.
A more accessible mode is not for you guys, you already have your version. This is for the players who are alienated by your version, the polar opposite of the players who played Arah and said “this is too easy, give me something with more challenge!” This version is not intended to “convert” player to your way of thinking, it is to satisfy those players by providing the experience they are looking for, start to finish.
Now, it can provide a training role, if players are looking for that, and should be designed in a way that provides that role, but first and foremost the goal must be to provide an entertaining and rewarding gameplay experience in and of itself, and any training benefits it may provide come secondary to that goal.
Can we please stop with the “we can have an easier mode, so long as it’s a complete cruel joke on those who enjoy it, and they quickly move on to our ‘better’ raids.” Accept that easy mode raids are to be a co-equal version of the content, just as valid a player choice as the existing ones are, or move on to a different discussion, because for all the whinging about how rewards are “off topic,” trying to discuss something that is not a “more accessible raid.” is certainly far more off topic.
No, you are mixing SEVERAL things now. One this topic was about accessibility. I have no need to pander to your delusions of ‘give me give me give me’. Two, enjoying the raid does not equate to getting the same rewards. People can find the boss fights enjoyable, YOU in particular are only looking at the rewards. Three, YOU are the one who needs to go home. YOU are the one who is twisting this topic into something rewards related.
The fact that you keep saying the rewards are part of the enjoyment is an axe to your own argument itself. If players playing the harder mode is supposed to find it enjoyable simply because its harder, why shouldn’t they get better rewards? According to you rewards are part of the enjoyment. If you have such a big following on your train of thought, that you are the ‘majority’, I’d have expected to see ample support in this topic. But I see no-one.
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They should list the defiance damage on skills so new players will know how to deal defiance damage.
They could make a training mode with legendary rewards. Capped rewards. Say it took 500 insights to make envoy armor, well you are capped at 1 insight per week in training mode. This insight would be a shaky box reward, so experienced raiders have an incentive to train others, and inexperienced raiders will take an unfeasible amount of time to farm envoy armor strictly from training mode. 10 years in fact. It is for training after all, and after enough training you should be migrating to normal mode.
Terrible suggestion. No one would bother dodging for Gors.
can we please get rid of the guild emblem on the magic carpet <_<
forge upgrading is a gamblers method. sometimes you get lucky and you’re much better off than buying.
I’d love it if there was a mounting animation
Now that the brooms are automatic I might actually buy a shared inventory slot for it! Great change! Whats more amazing is that it feels like Arenanet is finally listening to the community. I saw some post earlier last month about how these travel/cosmetic items need to be automatic in order for people to actually use it, and voila!
take warrior with 24 sec resistance and 880 health gain per second and than we talk…
Actually, we’ll talk when you bother to read the first post.
Not really sure what your reply has to do with my post. I’m simply saying Mesmers have a lot of well thought out GM traits that provide depth and playstyles.
Not here to call OP or anything, but having looked at the mesmer traits recently (just started learning to play the class) I can’t help but feel the grandmaster traits are just much better thought out than other classes.
I’d say about 2/3rds of the GM traits are genuinely creative and provide a way to alter the playstyle of the class rather than just be a passive % increase or automated effect. These traits are boring!
I main necro, and I’d say the only specialization that has GM traits with the same level of depth as the mesmer ones would be death magic. Maybe. The reaper GM traits are all terrible and passive. Even before the nerf to deathly chill the trait itself, while good ‘flavor’ wise, was a very passive and boring trait. I think most classes should have their GM traits looked at so that:
GM traits – playstyle altering effects
Master traits – cooldown reductions
Adept traits – small bonuses.
the jump pads on skyhammer still suck. they should be a fixed jump no matter whichever direction you enter the pad on or press when in mid air. like the bouncing mushrooms, only faster.
Hey Anet, if you’re seriously asking what the difference between ranked and unranked is then I have to kittening wonder if any of you actually play this game. I’m pretty sure we can have ranked without a season. It’s happened before.
This. Please play something like Dota 2. People play unranked to test builds, and they get serious when its ranked matchmaking. Theres not even really any difference in rewards or what not; the moment you assign a visible value to someones win loss, its serious business.
I also don’t get this insistence from Arenanet to reinvent the wheel. Leaderboards, matchmaking, pips, all that stuff, there are heaps of tried and workable system out there, yet we end up with all these convoluted systems that get people raging all the time.
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Can we get a tooltip for the specialization trees that is something along the lines of this:
“Zeal is a core specialization for the guardian that focuses on improving symbols and spirit weapons.”
Really would help people fresh to new classes learning the traits and all.
Pleaseeeeeeee can we have one?
I have to say, the spring update definitely made the UI feel completed and not like a disgusting mess (i’m looking at you old LFG).
At this point my biggest wish is for a build UI saver like the GW1 one. Even better would be if it could save equipment loadouts too, but at the very least a trait template saver would be great!
The changes made duplicate tags completely worthless and duplicate legendaries rather pointless in most cases. Neither one got any easier to obtain from the outset. Tags are 3x the price they were before the change.
Look at Nuggi’s post above yours. We are talking about a loss of gold much bigger than with commander tags, and in some cases more than legendaries.
I can understand people objecting to compensation (sort of, I actually have no idea why people are so invested in not letting other players get something), but I do think the amount of gold that has been taken off scribing has heavily been played down.
But the items scribes have made haven’t been made obsolete. In the case of commander tags and legendary weapons they have been. You can still use the same items you’ve scribed previously.
What about Ranked do you enjoy more than Unranked during off-season?
Is it that you prefer climbing a ladder all the time? Or are there other particular reasons.
People generally just give more of a kitten when rank is involved. I just finished a match where we were 200 ahead, and people started DnT (no, not death and taxes, i mean dueling and trashtalking). We ended up narrowing winning by 4 points.