Guild Wars 2

You have no idea how excited seeing this thread has made me!

I love the changes to marksmanship, like the change to Signet of Renewal, and am eager to try the new muddy terrain. I actually quite liked the old Most Dangerous Game though, but this new replacement could be fine.

Professor Sprout.1560:

So the Scourge design that we have seen is to spike large barriers onto allies in order to pre-empt specific threats, but the rune spits out self-only barrier and you have no control over when it pops? Leaving aside the fact that these runes are pretty meh in absolute terms, those runes don’t look like they will help the scourge do any of the things a scourge might want to focus on.

Couldn’t we have the rune 6 do something like “grant barrier to nearby allies when you inflict fear”?

I agree that an active rather than passive proc would be more satisfying, not sure what active proc would work best though. My favourite runes are the ones that help me scratch my multiclakitten so ideally for me it’d be something that would be usable by other professions, which at least this is…

Ouch, 75s cooldown.

I’m excited because my ranger is a Norn and I feel like this should be something within her skill set.

Also the possibility of them taking this opportunity to update core pets amd let me get some good use out of for example my boar.

It’s been a while since I’ve slotted it but I think the main thing I wished was different was for more retaliation.

So, anyone know if this “if you would be downed” bit means that you’d also be affected by the condi reset you’d get if you’d been downed?

Just idle curiosity, I’ve never played with berserker or anything, but if it functions as a condi clear/condi reset too…

This is still amazing news even if I have reforged some armour pieces I otherwise wouldn’t have.

As someone who loves playing around with different options and who can have insane amounts of decision paralysis I will be all over these armour upgrades!

This idea is amazing and I will always want this.

Jethro.9376:

what about a more SAB themed spider?

Wouldn’t you get dizzy from all the spinning? And impatient with all the posing? =D

Durzlla.6295:

Khisanth.2948:

<Troll Dev> Hey I heard you like climbing on walls. Here is a gecko mount.

Give us a gecko mount, and then a mount skin that makes it a spider, win win

I would actually love a wall-climbing lizard mount!

Spider mount would be cool but I agree with the person who said about going the web spinner rather than wall climber route with them.

“I like the look of it” is a perfectly good reason to use it tbh.
With those weapons you can basically do anything that isn’t condition damage. So like boon support, ventari healing, glass cannon or tanky power approach, are all valid options for events/wvw.

Ascended would only ever really be important if you planned on mainly looking for 1v1s or 1vXs. For everything else the main thing you need is a bit of mobility and map awareness. So cheap exotics are absolutely fine.

I love the sound of these changes, really good job and I agree it’s perfect timing to get this out of the way well before the expansion pack lands. It was very much needed and hopefully will mean class balance will be easier across game modes.

I’m a little confused why some people are saying vipers worth is being lowered, did I miss something in the OP about stat totals for HoT gear or is this just referencing a general “condi is dead now” thing?

Though in fairness, after reading this whole thread the only question I really care about getting an answer to is, what wiggling is associated with seaweed salad?

Mackanstein.2503:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Nowhere does Ranger have anything that resembles technology use. It is all nature magic. Affinity was the incorrect word. Using nature magic does rule out the use of technology, it just doesn’t fit and it is unecessary since you can do whatever you want with magic.

Also, it IS explicitly stated.

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

OnRPG: I knew there would be bows and things, but as you say the technology has advanced, so will they be more than pointy sticks on a string?

Anet: [Jon]The Ranger, one of the things we did with it in Guild Wars 2 is kind of go with a much more bestial and naturey feel and so because of that he kind of focuses on a lot weapons that are very natural. If he’s in melee combat he uses great swords and swords, and at range he throws axes, uses bows and short bows, long bows, and a lot of his spells, I got to mention the trap that [has] poison snakes, or he summons a nature spirit, and so we kind of embraced that naturey feel with him, kind of took him in that direction because we feel like that’s an archetype that people who play a Ranger really like and it gives us kind of an opportunity, you know in other places, to use the more advanced rifles and pistols with our [more earthly? doesn’t sound right..garbled..Sounded like it was a glitch or edited out intentionally..] professions.

[Eric]Yeah, I think we’d like to look at as the Ranger profession has evolved the same way that the world has evolved, and the Rangers have sort of gone anti-technology, they’ve gone into the wild, they’ve gone and embraced sort of spirit, and things like that. There are other professions in our, you know, five unye, as yet revealed, we mentioned Warriors for example have no problem using rifles. There are plenty of other professions remaining we’re going to use both rifles and pistols, and so for the Ranger it just didn’t feel right for them to be using firearms.

As the world evolved, the Rangers went further into the wild… away from technology, and more towards being bestial and “naturey.”

http://www.onrpg.com/news/guild-wars-2-exclusive-ranger-interview-transcription/

Yeah, Engineer got a Hammer, a rocket powered hammer that you can ionize, magnetise and reflect projectiles with because it makes you spin around so fast. More tech than blunt instrument.

And warrior got daggers and a different martial style, seems like a logical progression for a class that is already the most proficient at martial weapons.

Ranger got more nature magic.

Well, we do have a harpoon gun. Those can get a bit techy. Obviously for some reason the devs thought it served the ranger well enough conceptually. In doing this they also made the harpoon gun feel very nature themed with all the piranha and coral shots.

Aside from that, that article was 7 years ago, back when the core concept was made, and I think what draxynnic mentioned rings true:

draxynnic.3719:

Now, it’s still possible that not using guns is a choice that current rangers make, and some future elite specialisation may still go in that direction. But I think there are justifications for the line to be drawn where it is, at least for now.

It’s not so much that the core ranger concept needs changing – I think it’s great and I’m sure we all love the wilderness and nature aspects of the class – but given that elite specialisations are meant as new avenues of both gameplay and concept I think it’s worth being a bit more open to what a ranger could be.

Also, you keep mentioning nature magic and I get what you mean but, it’s only really a part of the kit. Rangers are also trappers, survivalists and animal tamers. The latter I think is actually more important to the concept than the druidic side of things. Now, all of these nature-themed of course, but they’re not all necessarily magic, nor does it have to mean that ventures outside of that box should be anathema, especially not in cases like elite specs where the devs should feel free to come up with new and exciting ideas (not necessarily guns). Especially since with more numerous elite specs we’re not all meant to go for the same ones, and some specs will appeal thematically to some but not others. I’m sure not all warriors imagined themselves as Spellbreakers at the outset.

On a side note, to make things less OT: I think it was a missed opportunity to not make Soulbeast more desert themed, maybe have some sandy visuals or a crystalline effect reflect the beast aspect into our soul or something. Bit more exciting than the green thorns aura we have currently, which I see some people being disappointed about. Druids were very fitting in Maguuma Jungle after all, and I think that as rangers we really should theme our new elite specs after the environment of the new areas we go to. Deserts are part of nature too right?

If we were ever to get rifle on a ranger I’d hope it would be a set up that really emphasised the pet aspect of our class to separate it from other rifle users. I can’t help imagining little technopacks on our pets that supercharge their bodies when they go in for a charge attack, or with little suits of body armour made from scrap, or any of that kind of thing. (Basically I’d want engineer gadgets but for our pets because I think it’d be adorable, and i don’t care who would think it’d be deplorable cos they don’t get to judge the bond between me and Scrappy =P )

aaralyn.6493:

Please advise regarding Soulbeast

I plan to return to the game after recent PoF reveal. I left the game like 1 year ago, and now Im wondering if I should invest gold in changing my ascended stats to viper (wanted to give condi a try) or perhaps wait until PoF hits and some vialble builds show up?
I read Soulbeast has the best potential of being condi dmg dealer but power builds should be possible too (though a bit lackluster?). Not even sure if I should get my hands on ascended daggers (have enough magnetide shards) or wait because daggers seem rather weak from looking at streams/youtube videos..
Ah and I plan on doing mostly solo content like world explore, maybe fractals and dungs at some point, if it matters :V I just wonder how bad will power build be in comparison to condi (and how is it now?)

I know not much is known at this point, but maybe you could advise me what to do. I suppose I dont mind sitting on my butt for another month..

(currently, I have gear with Soldier stats because when raids first hit in no one in my guild was willing to tank or heal, so I did both at the same time. And I did really good, but right now, after returning, I dont think I will ever use this build so.. :v)

The thing about trying condi is that the difference between exotic and ascended gear is less pronounced than for power damage, so I’d say just get some cheap exotics (or maybe take the opportunity to unlock some exotic skins you never bothered with before) and give it a whirl, you’ll be in a better position to try it from the get go when the expansion pack lands that way.

Never change, guardian subforum. Never change…

Levetty.1279:

Rashagar.8349:

I love this part of the release phase where theorycrafting and suppositions are running wild, and balance is sort of hand waved aside since nothing is set in stone but everyone is still thinking up combos to try out for fun (as opposed to when it’s already “solved”)
On that note has anyone seen what it looks like when eg. the ranger is the one using a bird’s swoop or a wyvern’s wing buffet? Not really in a position right now to trawl through videos for things like that.

https://youtu.be/lhFrgfUw2c4?t=20

Thanks for that. Not what I was expecting but good to know.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Am I the only one that is stoked that TOMES ARE BACK?

Definitely not alone there =D

I love this part of the release phase where theorycrafting and suppositions are running wild, and balance is sort of hand waved aside since nothing is set in stone but everyone is still thinking up combos to try out for fun (as opposed to when it’s already “solved”)
On that note has anyone seen what it looks like when eg. the ranger is the one using a bird’s swoop or a wyvern’s wing buffet? Not really in a position right now to trawl through videos for things like that.

I love pets but I’m still really looking forward to this elite spec. It seems great for complementing Norn-ness.

Obtena.7952:

At least this isn’t a complaint thread about the name of the spec … still, I would caution restraint for … you know, playing it before making a hasty judgment.

Haha! I’m sure that those threads are just on the horizon.

I for one am incredibly happy to see the return of tomes anyway.

That’s amazing!

Malerian.8435:

I mean I have nothing against minis. But using them in WvW is not the smartest thing. Especially if your group is small and is trying to sneak across the map to take towers. camps, etc, etc…

The smart option isn’t always the fun option though.

I’d love a mini floating Stonemist Castle, just the castle on a little floating cloud of mist.

I really don’t see this as an issue.

Thornwolf.9721:

Riannoc: After having played the sylvary campaign recently, All this talk of Riannoc makes me feel as though he is a strong candidate. With the ability to reforge Caladbolg, This makes all the more reason for this to be a thing. He could bring the great-sword too the Revenant, as he himself wielded a great-sword. We see Caladbolg through out the campaign having differing abilities based on who wields it, perhaps we could have it be a solid Addition to the Power spec? Make it work really well with shiro and or Jalis depending on what It’s main concept is.

Asgeir Dragonrender: Being the norn who PUNCHED an elder dragon in the mouth, as well carrying its freaking tooth to their now settlement I feel as though he kinda deserves to be a spec for Rev. The only way this would work however is if they brought spear on land due to his primary weapon being a spear Assuredly as a two hander. It would be cool to get more info on this guy, as in the living story we do help braham get the scroll this guy actually used to enchant his spear in order to hurt jormag.

Any of the spirits of the wild: Bear, raven, wolf, snow leopard whatever it is or potentially all of them it would be really cool. Make it very similar to the ursan form in Guild wars 1 where you get to be their aspect, while they empower you.

The Envoy’s: We kinda get this with shiro, but the Envoy’s in factions were interesting as hell and we did not get entirely all the information we would of liked. Bringing them back as a legendary stance would be sick.

Dadnir.5038:

I feel like Dhuum, kanaxai and urgoz are also some pretty good contenders.

starlinvf.1358:

Or Yakkington?

My favourite of the suggestions so far.

Especially the spirits of the wild thought.
If Owl could be channeled as my revenant I would probably cry.

Keep fighting the good fight babazhook, I’d have given up a long time ago.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Helly.2597:

Justine.6351:

Lazeris.1725:

I mean despite the OP…..Condi Reaper is really crazy op right now. Not sure how anyone can actually defend that class right now.

Because they play reapers most likely. Helly is a prolific viper reaper player and he made vids about how obnoxious reaper is atm and people still tell him hes wrong/ reapers deserve this meta blahblahblah. Not even someone who is an expert on reaper can tell the masses that reaper is ridiculous in wvw.

What makes reaper so strong right now is the impact you can have while being a complete and total braindead player. Regardless of if this/the other thread conveyed this, a totally new player can have the largest impact in small scale and zerging fights by making a reaper getting reaper runes and full dire and just spamming abilities. It snowballs fights well, requires minimal thought behind skill usage, and doesn’t have diminishing returns based on how many reapers are around you.

The heart of the problem is the lack of diminishing returns for deathly chill. It doesn’t matter if its 1 necro or 20, they all are applying the 3 bleeds per chill application. This promotes the meta we’re seeing now with reapers being one of the most popular professions especially in zergs. This meta simply isn’t healthy for wvw imo whatever aspect of the gamemode you play.

These forums aren’t exactly full of logic and reason. As someone who has been using them regularly for years, I highly suggest the both of you don’t take anything people say here seriously. 90% of them have next to no clue what they actually want, what skill is or isn’t or even what balance is.

I agree with the both of you, Reaper is overtuned. But don’t expect to get many others to agree because most who play it think it’s weak when they realize they can’t run away with it.

Yeah it can be really interesting reading the forums sometimes, you become very aware of how easy it is to identify other people’s biases (for want of a better word) and how difficult it can be to identify your own. =)

Chrury.4627:

I agree with Kain. Most spirit are in a good spot.

The outlier for me is Storm Spirit. Vuln is plentiful and the traited swiftness isn’t too useful for fights that stay in spirit range.
The stun is nice but you have to lure your target to the spirit and sacrifice it. Not tactfully sound.

Now I don’t know how you might fix it… Maybe traited pulse 1 sec quickness instead?

EDIT: Oh and Water Spirit is just…it’s just bad.

Yeah I’m sorry to say that I too like static spirits, but I do often find myself wishing for changes to them. Particularly their actives. Also yeah, at the very least water spirit should interact with healing power more.

XenesisII.1540:

Which means if you try to exploit the system by tanking, they will yank the system out, so don’t be idiots.

Good luck on that front.

Sarika.3756:

How is getting a reward while playing a game mode you love grindy?

You don’t have to farm the same content over and over, waiting for RNG to bless you. You just… Play.

It depends how long it is between chests tbh. If I’ve managed to find 6 hours in total during the week to put into wvw, but it’s already Wed, I can definitely see it feeling grindy if you felt like you needed to put another x hours into it before Fri or else the first 6 hours will count for nought.
*edit, I haven’t managed to find any hours to put in it since it started yet so numbers are theoretical

TheGrimm.5624:

When you double click on a finisher in your inventory it pops up finisher inventory and allows any expendable ones to be added to your stockpile

What?? Oh my god you just freed up so much bag space for me!

Rayya.2591:

Rashagar.8349:

Rayya.2591:

mazut.4296:

The difference by just following the commander and be in a squad is pretty big. You don’t get buffs/heals. When you die you don’t get rezzed. You are still helping, because you are eating the damage and with your sacrifice you help the zerg to survive longer and eventually be victorious. But you can’t get loot and you need to run every few mins to rejoin the zerg.
In the end only the most stubborn keep running with the jerks that hate you!

HF playing that way, if you are masochist…

So you say thieves and rangers mitigate damage ?
Good job man
So you say if you are on tag with an thief /ranger with every stack of condi on you and enemy necro use epi on you, you are actualy beeing helpfull ?

How do you think a thief with every stack of condi on them would survive long enough to be epi’d? I think you’ve lost track of whatever argument you were trying to make in an effort to “be right” here.

he don’t need to survive long enough ( 2 seconds-3 with 20 stacks of burn in a purge bomb ) or 20 stacks of bleeding is enough to punish an entire melee train.
However you start a discution with a flawless argument, are you newcommer from pve? or you some skill clicker necro that don;t know when or what to epi on ?

Oh, a response I missed. Pity it had such little substance to it. Random meaningless numbers pulled out of the air in a continued effort to try justify your biases mixed with questioning the skill/experience level of anyone who recognises your post as substanceless drivvel.

Disappointing.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Rashagar.8349:

Jaina Ashlynn.1043:

The game has basically always been “meta or gtfo” and it ain’t going to change. If you don’t like it, change to a meta class. If you don’t want to change then the problem is on you. Why should those that play the wanted meta classes be punished in other game modes because you want to play your way and that happens to be on an unwanted class?

Besides, anyone playing on a ranger, especially pre-druid, should be use to getting treated like they have the plague anyway.

See, for a lot of us that’s just not true. “Meta or gtfo” as you call it is a relatively recent influx, especially to WvW. If you don’t like a perceived change (influx of preachy meta zealots, for PvE we used to call them zerkle jerkers) then why would you abandon your preferred play style to be like them?

Meta or gtfo has been there from the beginning. Sure, it took a few months to figure things out, but we did in short order. I’d say, even more so the further back you go, as the game used to be much more competitive and consisted of more guild groups that concerned itself more with comp and was more strict with comp than today.

There’s a distinction between “meta or gtfo is a mind set that has always existed” and “the game has always been meta or gtfo”.
The latter doesn’t take into account the differences between server mind sets, for example. A lot of the low-mid tier servers never cared about meta in wvw. All they cared about was that you were present, and trying.

I mean arguably the game has never been “meta or gtfo”, it’s always just been a small subset of players with that mind set.

Jaina Ashlynn.1043:

Rashagar.8349:

Jaina Ashlynn.1043:

The game has basically always been “meta or gtfo” and it ain’t going to change. If you don’t like it, change to a meta class. If you don’t want to change then the problem is on you. Why should those that play the wanted meta classes be punished in other game modes because you want to play your way and that happens to be on an unwanted class?

Besides, anyone playing on a ranger, especially pre-druid, should be use to getting treated like they have the plague anyway.

See, for a lot of us that’s just not true. “Meta or gtfo” as you call it is a relatively recent influx, especially to WvW. If you don’t like a perceived change (influx of preachy meta zealots, for PvE we used to call them zerkle jerkers) then why would you abandon your preferred play style to be like them?

The OP has options…play his way & not get invited in which case he can either tag up or shut up & deal with no squad invite. The other option is to change the play style & run something he might not like. Did you not read the part in the original post about wanting all the typical zerg classes getting punished because he can’t play the way he wants to in WvW? If the OP can’t bother to adapt, why should the rest of the player base suffer for it? I wanted to play my way in dungeons years ago (so much for relatively recent) and guess what..class not wanted & instant kick. Instead of wanting everyone punished for not playing my way, I learned a different class & dealt with it. If the OP wants to take his ball and go home, more power to him….just don’t take my bat when you leave.

And yes I read the OP but since your comment didn’t quote any other comments to put it in context I just took your’s at face value.

Jaina Ashlynn.1043:

The game has basically always been “meta or gtfo” and it ain’t going to change. If you don’t like it, change to a meta class. If you don’t want to change then the problem is on you. Why should those that play the wanted meta classes be punished in other game modes because you want to play your way and that happens to be on an unwanted class?

Besides, anyone playing on a ranger, especially pre-druid, should be use to getting treated like they have the plague anyway.

See, for a lot of us that’s just not true. “Meta or gtfo” as you call it is a relatively recent influx, especially to WvW. If you don’t like a perceived change (influx of preachy meta zealots, for PvE we used to call them zerkle jerkers) then why would you abandon your preferred play style to be like them?

xikira.3264:

Most people will go to spawn to bleed them out. Only a few are curtious to bleed them out in obsidian sanctum

You can earn pips in obsidian sanctum? I mean, if that’s the case and it’s really bothering you them being there then letting them know that (preferably in a courteous and non-judgmental way) could be a thing you could try.

Personally I keep forgetting that place exists, never mind what can and can’t be earned there compared with normal WvW or EotM.

Rayya.2591:

mazut.4296:

The difference by just following the commander and be in a squad is pretty big. You don’t get buffs/heals. When you die you don’t get rezzed. You are still helping, because you are eating the damage and with your sacrifice you help the zerg to survive longer and eventually be victorious. But you can’t get loot and you need to run every few mins to rejoin the zerg.
In the end only the most stubborn keep running with the jerks that hate you!

HF playing that way, if you are masochist…

So you say thieves and rangers mitigate damage ?
Good job man
So you say if you are on tag with an thief /ranger with every stack of condi on you and enemy necro use epi on you, you are actualy beeing helpfull ?

How do you think a thief with every stack of condi on them would survive long enough to be epi’d? I think you’ve lost track of whatever argument you were trying to make in an effort to “be right” here.

SWI.4127:

With that said, I have found the majority of WvW players to be pretty welcoming (more than I expected). I know prestige items are cool, just try to keep some perspective here. Some people are a bit overly defensive about the mode to the detriment of the game.

I’m glad that’s what you’ve found, reading some of the comments in this forum you can start to think that the inclusive game mode I fell in love with is dying and being replaced by, heh, “overly defensive” people.

draxynnic.3719:

What could make for a good compromise is if, instead of tying all the tickets for a tier to the big box at the end, it was spread out more. So the wooden tier could have two tickets per sub-box and then four in the final box, and the bronze tier could have three per sub-box and six in the final, and so on. That way, somebody who, for whatever reason, only has a limited time to spend in a given week can at least make some progress, even if it is going to take a long time to get anywhere at 2-6 tickets a week.

This idea I fully support.

Puck.9612:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

So sad that none of the “cmdr has his rts” supporters can see fit in your hearts to soften arbitrary, exclusionary restrictions on game play in a casual game intended to be FUN! Believe me, it wasn’t fun that day at all.

Tag up yourself and be and inclusive as you want. Stop trying to force your rules on everyone else. You remind me of the little kids that would take their ball and go home when things didn’t go their way.

Funnily enough that description works exceptionally well for some commanders =P

xikira.3264:

I think it depends on your server I run on gates of madness. I have never had an issue with my server anyone is welcome into the group. Our commanders are pretty versatile they understand sure some classes are better for large fights. But they also know all classes can be useful and can do great things of they know what they are doing. The only time people get kicked is if they move borderlands but won’t leave said and won’t come back when asked. Or if they log off and don’t come back on after five or so min. I have had issues with other servers though. There was this tag from our first server link he got extremely upset when someone invited me a ranger into the squad and kicked me. I still ran with the zerg even though I wasn’t in it. I only wiped about twice and it was in our huge fights. Both times the tag would say in say chat do not res me. If anyone divided to res me they would be kicked. Both times I had the entire zerg walk over my body and ignore me. I stuck with my server commanders after that.

That is disgusting behaviour for a commander.

Reverence.6915:

holodoc.5748:

Reverence.6915:

Well, to be honest, if you’re following the tag, the correct thing to do is to join their teamspeak server if they’re advertising one. Otherwise, get off that particular tag and follow someone else, or put up a tag yourself.

There is no “correct” thing to do. If you are following an open tag (usually blue) then you are not obliged to do anything. TS is a courtesy on both sides, the one providing it and the one choosing to use it or not. However it’s by no means a required tool to play WvW efficiently or successfully.

I don’t frequent these forms too often anymore, but here’s a late reply

Yes, that is the correct thing to do. That person is leading their squad. They set it up how they want. If they don’t want to have someone not in teamspeak in their squad, that’s their right. If they don’t want non-TS users on their tag, that’s their right as well, especially since ANet refuses hidden/guild commander tags. You can go follow another tag, put up your own tag, or roam if you’re not happy with their rules.

Some good points being raised in this thread though

1. Disabilities

Yes. This is a huge problem. Those with disabilities should never be forced into teamspeak. I know I had a couple of people with hearing disabilities explain that to me so I knew to keep them in squad and not force them to join teamspeak. They even joined along later in advertising teamspeak. Also had a person that required hearing aids to hear, but still enjoyed being in teamspeak. Each person is different. Find a commander that is still happy to have you along.

2. Elitists in TS

Yeah… This is an issue. It’s extremely irritating to listen to. Having commanders call out random kitten and blaming random people that aren’t in their guild just feels bad to listen to. I’d leave the channel if that were the case

3. Noisy chatter

Okay, so it’s not for everyone, but TS3, for a lot of people, is a place to socialise with other people on your server. These are the people you have to play with day in and day out (server transfers aside). You’ll find a lot of times, that it will be the same people following specific commanders with a specific group every time. People will find their niche in their server and just hang around them. Each server is a huge community after all.

If you still prefer your music though, what I tend to do is to mute everyone but the commander, and have my music playing through my speakers, while TS3 audio goes through my headphones. Works a treat

---

Honestly, it’s generally better, if you’re following the tag, to join their teamspeak. If you can’t or won’t, just don’t join that tag. Such a simple solution.

So, I just wanted to say, while yes they can set up their squad however they want, they can’t tell you that you have to follow a different tag. They don’t have that right.

(While you didn’t state otherwise, I just wanted to clarify that point in case anyone reading your post got the wrong impression.)

Sarika.3756:

There are two issues here.

One is whether or not a deaf person should be required to be in TS. Which is pretty silly, and isn’t really what anyone is saying.

The other is whether or not a commander has the right to choose the rules for their own squad.

Hehe I’m not convinced that no one is saying the 1st one to be honest. Some people seem to be under the impression that teamspeak means teamspeak regardless of extenuating circumstances.

The way I see it regarding the 2nd issue is that:
Some people mistakenly believe (and understandably so I think) that if they get kicked from a squad it’s because they’re not welcome in the vicinity of the squad. Understandably because the actions of some squads reinforce this belief, and because the functionality of a squad (organisation as opposed to “this is our party and you’re not welcome”) isn’t immediately apparent to for example newer players.
On the other side, some other people mistakenly believe (less understandably to me) that the “rules” of a squad extend beyond the squad, to everyone on the map or even everyone on the server sometimes. And that not following these rules is “hurting your side” or “being selfish” or whatever. This is also reinforced by the actions of some squads, and more usually by the statements of some of the members of some squads.

My general belief is that a commander can choose to command in any method he pleases. (In this case, voice vs type)
But he can’t demand that people follow in the way he wants them to. So he can’t demand that players listen to him.
He is of course free to prioritise commanding the people who want to follow him the way he wants them to.
But, importantly, the people who don’t want to follow in the way he wants them to, are not in the wrong for having their own preferences.

Crinn.7864:

Rashagar.8349:

Then add in the sociopolitically distasteful “pulling your own weight” diatribe

Since when did pulling your own weight become a bad thing? Are you seriously telling me that good work ethics are no longer desirable?

No, that’s not what I’m saying. Sorry, I had meant to specify “sociopolitically distasteful diatribe” used by some proponents of it. Not to imply that if you are a proponent of it it follows that you must be spewing sociopolitically distasteful diatribe.

*edit, let me know if I need to explain it further, I had just assumed that people would know the sort of thing I was talking about.

Puck.9612:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Sarika.3756:

A commander is choosing to tag up. In their squad, it’s their rules. If the commander wants their squad in voice, that’s perfectly fine. You have a choice to join or not.

Not all voice comms are the same. Some are toxic, some aren’t. Please stop painting everyone with the same brush.

Play the way you want. Don’t join voice. But don’t be upset if that choice has consequences.

If you think voice doesn’t matter, then tag up and textmand. Set your own squad rules. That’s your choice, too.

If the commander wants their squad in TS, I have no choice. See the flaw in your logic? I have no choice. I cannot join, and that’s what I want, and their is no reason why I shouldn’t be allowed in to a non-full squad. I can’t play the I want. I am upset. Their rude choices made bad consequences for me and everyone else in TC that day. I can’t tag up – I don’t have 300 gold lying around. It’s not my choice. I don’t have it. I don’t want to lead a squad anyway. So now what? I go off to the corner to play some other mode or by myself? Well, how great for me and everyone else similarly situated.

So you should be allowed to play the way you want but the commander shouldn’t be allowed to play the way he wants? That sounds pretty kittening selfish.

That’s always seemed like a particularly stupid argument when I hear it trotted out.
“I want everyone around me to play my way” and “I want to play my own way” are not the same degree of “want”.

Bearer of Burden.4621:

It happened to me once (and only once).

Around early. feb. I was kicked from the squad because I was playing ranger.
I complained in map/team chat but no one objected, and many agreed that rangers/(and thiefs) had no place in the squad or even in wvw at al.

I then decided to not join a squad nor join TS for 6months.

I still still play daily, i still follow commanders, And i still play necro/ranger/mesmer/warrior (depending on how i feel) I just refuse to join squads/ts

This is the thing that annoys me most tbh.
People who claim to love the game mode, complain about how the game mode is dying or whatever, and then work to make sure that comes to pass by actively sacrificing inclusiveness and friendliness on the altar of “meta”.

Sorry, tangential rant diverted.

Prysin.8542:

henchmen.1856:

Fluffball.8307:

I have a 1 year old that I prefer sleeps rather than is up at like 3 am. If the PUGmander can’t handle that, kitten em.

headphones exist for a reason. no one is saying you have to talk.

holodoc.5748:

TS is not a requirement for effectively contributing to WvW. As a matter of fact a lot of people, myself included, do not join TS because of all the side effects that come with joining a public place like that. Screaming, producing all kinds of bodily noises, publicly sharing personal sexual fantasies, picking fights with other people on TS… No thank you.

what kind of weird as server are you on….

My thoughts exactly XD

On a sidenote. TS is free, it allows for easy, effortless real time communication. If you do not want to listen to the chatter, reduce volume of TS overall, then bump the volume of the commanders only. That way, you only hear what you need to hear.

The point of TS, is also not JUST for you to hear others, its for others to relay info TO YOU. A commander/zerg isnt always able to relay info in text or through links. Having to tie up a scout or another roamer to relay said info to you, because you refuse to use a simple free program to stay in the loop, wastes not just the commanders time, but OUR time.

We are all in this together. Using TS, lowering the volume so you arent bothered by it. Its easy, its FREE and i dare say it’s simply “good manners”

I personally believe it’s good manners to assume that if someone isn’t on teamspeak, it’s because they have perfectly valid reasons.

You aren’t letting the side down by not using it or something. If anything I dare say the side is letting you down by trying to force the issue.

=P

Zephyra.4709:

Great communication is key, whether it is text on screen or via voice chat programs like TS or discord.

Many good commanders will ask their zerg to be on TS and this can stem out to scouts and/or roamers on other BLs.

Like real life and social groups – each server’s community differs in maturity and it isn’t uncommon to have the odd group or individuals whom talk or treat others disrespectfully in TS. Never had to block anyone in TS, there’s a few clowns for sure but they move on or you/your friends do to another channel.

I will state it’s fair if you join a squad or intend to follow a commander that in being kicked for not being in TS as per his/her orders is deserving. Their house, their rules.

It’s nice to know what’s going on in TS instead of relying on team chat for details which may be too late.

All too common I see a zerg having missed potential because a third of the squad is not in TS not having listened to the adverts for TS and therefore, has no idea what movement/callouts will be. These people disappoint me and let their teammates down.

I think where it becomes objectionable is when a commander labours under the false impression that the entire map/server is “their house” and hence should play by “their rules”, rather than just the squad. Which you do see sometimes.

Feanor.2358:

Panda.1967:

Rashagar.8349:

Henry.5713:

There is a very simple reason why people hate meters. It hurts to have a bad feeling about your own underperformance being proven to you by accurate numbers and statistics.
It hurts even more to have your mind blown if you didn’t even realize you were underperforming or to know that other player will see all of that information as well.

You know when you’re playing a cooperative board game and there’s that one player who’s telling everyone what they “should” be doing with their turns instead of letting them actually play the game themselves?

In my experience, that’s why people “hate” meters/meta/whatever.

Then add in the sociopolitically distasteful “pulling your own weight” diatribe that gets flung about by these backseat gamers, and you can begin to understand one of the many alternate points of view on this topic, and why allowing meters might be viewed as legitimising what some see as an unhealthy environment.

This… a million times this… I play this game for enjoyment… I’m not here to be told “you have to do things this way or GTFO”. I get enough of that at work, I’m not here for work, I’m here for fun and relaxation. There are enough headaches in the game from unnecessary and quite frankly stupid restrictions, adding on being required to play your meta builds and meet your ever growing DPS minimums is one headache I and many others would rather not deal with. Unfortunately, nearly any time we decide to go do some group content, we get that kitten forced on us by everyone who’s running around with a meter.

Funny. I’m running a meter myself since they became legal. I only remember a player (and it was not me) remarking on another player’s DPS once. A lot more often I see “wtf, why are you using weapon X”, or “why do you have only Y AP”. A LOT more often.

You want to have fun? Sure, go ahead. Nobody’s stopping you. And neither are the dps meters. No matter how terrible your dps is, there are a lot of groups who wouldn’t care. And no matter if we have dps meters or not, there are a lot of groups who would care, blame and flame you. You can’t avoid that, except to leave such group when you find one. DPS meters aren’t the issue, players are.

Funny thing about it being a people problem is, if we carry on the board game analogy, a lot of the more recent board games have been taking deliberate steps towards obfuscating the information that is available to all players about other players’ current capabilities in an attempt to prevent this backseat playing phenomenon. Just something I find kind of funny, that board games are attempting to become more opaque to try prevent/manage the people problem, while computer games, which have such a head start on being opaque over board games, are becoming more transparent to feed into it.

(I’m not against meters by the way, but I am against how some people who defend meters choose to portray/charicaturise the points of view on the topic that don’t completely align with their own).

McWolfy.5924:

Well. If you destroy the fun of 60 others… Its not just about you :P

That’s a very tenuous definition of fun those 60 others have if it can be destroyed so easily =P

I am going to miss my “well screw you I’m a cloud” retort.

But I haven’t tried the new replacement skill so can’t comment on it’s efficacy.

Bond.4602:

First and foremost enjoy yourself.

Yeah this would be the extent of my list too haha!

Possibly with some kind of follow up along the lines of “everybody dies and that’s ok, don’t let it stress you”.