“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
I think it would be far better if they gave a hero point for each WvW level … Or did something like the skill scrolls, where you get a hero point potion for each WvW level, so you can’t double up on alts. (using skill scrolls wouldn’t work because they’ve been handing those out like candy.)
I wouldn’t be so quick to talk yourself out of it. A hero point per 1 (or 2, or 5, pick a number for balance) WvW levels that is account wide would be a fantastic way to reward WvW players and bring reluctant PvE alt-makers into the WvW experience.
And while I agree, it also means I will have to take a break from WvW with my engie just to run her all over Tyria to try to get ahead of this horse. AND i’ll have to do the same on all of my other level 80s that have not map opened if I want to continue to play them as is. I think this is the problem I have with this at the moment. That those of us will HAVE to change what we play for the time being just so we aren’t in a bind once the change hits. Furthermore, only those of us actually paying attention right now will do this, but there are FAR more players out there that aren’t and they will get blindsided by this. THOSE are the players Anet needs to be wary of more than anything else.
The rage will be real. As will the fall out.
This is also true. I feel bad for the WvW players that are going to have to revise their play to get all their options. A lot of my alts got big boosts off the previous daily system, so their actual exploration is kind of missing. It’s going to be some work for me to get it done.
My hope is that ANet can find a way to incentivize players to get a jump on it, like a small bonus after finishing a skill point challenge and announce it on the quest list the way they do WvW and PvP tournaments. In the least, make it worth a WvW player’s time to dip into PvE for those extra skill/hero points. WXP vials, temporary magic find buffs, badges of honor.. something.
PvE/alt lovers have a way to handle it. PvP gets to ignore it completely. WvW is due to get crippled, and it needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.
The discussion point was that the new trait system is not alt friendly. If the answer is “don’t do it on all your alts” then that pretty much proves the point, does it not?
I seem to be taking the opposite route to managing all my 90s and upcoming alts:
Get it done now so it’s not a qq later.
We’ve been told what’s coming and how they intend to handle it. It’s still months of development time away. We can not say we’re caught with our pants down on this one.
I’m (cautiously) excited about the upcoming specialization changes, and while there are a number of issues that will be hotly debated, there’s one thing I saw from the AMA notes that worries me.
Reviving traits are still a thing under the proposed plan.
I don’t consider it a good thing to plan for failure, and revival traits are ignored because they’re too conditional and just not that useful:
If these revive skills are going to be used out of the significantly more buffed options that are coming to other traits, some or all of the below are going to need to happen.
If players take one of these traits, they expect to use them for some actual benefit. It was easy to ignore them before, since there were so many other options. If revive-speed traits remain in the trait plan, they really need improvement, or they will continue to be ignored. Then will have to be benefit-rich, powerful abilities that justify the risk of helping a downed/defeated ally and serve as a suitable comeback mechanism.
So far, the only one I can’t replicate is my mesmer’s death-clone build, which actually punishes bosses/players for hacking at clones. I didn’t see any on-death effects in the proposed mesmer trait lines. Not a huge loss, so it’s only a minor gripe.
Elementalist Arcana is taking a hit, which is sad, but I mostly use it for staff anyway, and Blasting Staff is getting rolled in. This actually frees me up for Earth/Fire/Water, which has some potential.
My current warrior’s getting a buff, so I’m definitely not complaining.
Better options – maybe, we’ve yet to see.
Less options – 100% fact.I’m a quantitive guy:>
Well, yes, we are, statistically, getting fewer permutations. (I refuse to call them “options” based on how they’re used now.) :P And 390k combinations per class is still plenty to explore.
It does kinda suck that we’re losing lower trait selections in higher slots, but before panic, let’s see what they do with the trait combinations.
You might be right, but you’re missing the point. If I wanted to make my character a mess of bad choices, I should have the option. I shouldn’t have to follow the legion of sheep that say, “Such and such build is the best,” and be all but forced to play it.
Easier to balance doesn’t make it right. It just makes it lazy. And it also caters to those players who can’t think for themselves and need someone else, developers included, to tell them how to build a class and play the game.
Hasn’t the new leveling system taught ANet that hand-holding is a bad decision already?
But, again, we’ll see.
From a design retro-perspective, a good design shouldn’t have let you make “bad” choices in the first place. But that’s philosophy.
Finding the right balance between complexity and depth is… hard. I won’t begrudge anyone that. Excess complexity without depth is pointless. But to compare to WoW for a moment, the shift away from the “tree” model was a good one. It allowed for continued vertical growth (for as much as it’s going to get in its twilight years. >_>) and it gave players meaningful choices. Where I’m beginning to feel the “meeeh” is how they keep removing skills until everyone’s rotations are 3 button presses (outside of PvP). So, to agree, at least in part, continued oversimplification can be just as dangerous as overcomplication. We’ll all be do new research on builds and such, but I suspect it should still feel better than WoW, at least.
I’m going to remain cautiously optimistic and hit up those skill point challenges so I can hit the ground running on HoT release, while I wait for more details.
Math says hi.
Math is quantitative, not qualitative. So much QQ over details not yet reveals. It’s kinda sad.
I, for one, welcome our new Specialization overlords.
Ok, I’m a very concerned about this new traits/specialization rework that’s coming soon. I personally don’t always use an adept, master, and grand master trait in each of my trees. Will I still be able to use 1 adept and 2 masters if I want, or 2 adepts and a grandmaster?
On the other side, I’m really excited about the ability to modify my class by unlocking new roles for a class and a new weapon like Druid for a ranger. I think that is going to be really enjoyable, once I get that done.
But even as excited as I am about that, I have a feeling that you’re about to break a lot of my characters. I currently have EVERY skill and trait/perk thing unlocked on my Ranger and my Thief. I just have this gut feeling that it’s all going to be erased and I’m going to have to do all of that work over again, with whatever new setup you’re going to have and all of the time and effort I put into working on that is going to be for nothing.
That’s based on what I’ve gleaned so far, and it’s obviously up for change. Best thing to do right now is keep calm and explore.
I doubt a dev will ever confirm anything since they don’t usually reveal behind the scenes mechanics.
The only thing the devs have said is that corpses (eventually) won’t scale the event. Any details on range, time, etc have not been discussed as far as I have seen.
This reeks of what Blizzard did to their old trait trees.
Old school WoW trees were a mess of bloat and micromanaging with numerous traps and the same “choose this or go home” selections that the GW2 trait trees already have. Not to mention, the old WoW system doomed itself in vertical progression, because more talent points meant more chances to dip into other trees in an unintended way and more micromanaging. It’s not difficult, it’s just tedious.
And, there were some talent points that always, always went to the same place like crit bonuses. So those were moved out of talent progressions and just given to the class/spec during leveling.
If the illusion of choice has six options, but only two are superior, there’s not much of an actual choice; only two choices and four “why would anyone ever pick those” traps. The choices a player does make in a messy, bloated system like that are less meaningful. Not to mention, the options that weren’t used often end up ignored by developers because no one used them anyway. They were too busy balancing against meta builds to deal with obviously inferior choices.
And yes, it is easier to balance 3 traits in a tier instead of 6. So doing that for development reasons isn’t wrong.
Like the idea, Hamfast. Maybe even tie those to content.
Though, the first step is reverting those town clothes tonics into outfits!
And now that you mention it, MoMo, I have a bile-raising temptation to actually do that. :\ But no, I’ll just farm up some more gold for it. :P
They’re removing Skill Points. What about all those MF recipes that need mats you can only get with skillpoints?
You can never get those mats again, ever. They’re removing everything from the game that involved that resource. That includes legendaries, despite making a new system that technically will make it easier, or at least more reliable to get a legendary.
Or, more likely, they will change the process by which those mats are acquired.
Kal, be nice. :P
One of the blogs mentioned that skill points (or whatever they’re converting to) will be awarded in level-80 play.
It was elegant and, for the most part, actually quite successful.
If anything, I feel it’s failed.
Try map completion on a new toon. You will be forced to go to a few scouts just to reveal several hearts that were previously always visible like the rest.
Ask players about the GLORIOUS level-up tutorial on Combo-fields.
Go ahead, ask 10 players what a Dark field and a Whirl finisher will do.
I’ll be surprised if some don’t say “Whats a Dark field?”
In order to “learn how to dodge” a player has to go around a specific section of the map, which can be completely missed.They aren’t real tutorials. It’s clunky to both new and old players.
It doesn’t streamline how to play the game any smoother or better. I’ve bought the game for a few of my friends and watched the NPE fail and create lazy and terrible players from its design.
Traits weren’t as ridiculous as 100% Map completion of FGS for an ADEPT trait either.
It was “successful” in the way that people had no choice but to deal with it regardless of how terrible it is. Why do you think the NPE is the running joke?
Yeah… Pretty much agree with all identified mis-steps ANet’s taken over the past few years. NPE is a clunky mess, traits 2.0 obviously needed to be pitched at conception. And so on. Because none of it was really all that elegant in design. Too convoluted for even their own devs to follow and implement cleanly.
I can see they’re trying. They’re closing in on more elegant design decisions. Dailies are getting close.
But, they’re missing the mark on details. And the details, much like their failure with Traits 2.0, are what keep me from being 100% excited for the change.
which basically means the realistic options/variations is small. as the thread says, it is fairly likely people will be clones.
They’re already clones. TurtleofPower’s testimony.
I don’t feel like I have a choice in the current system. I’m rolling a generic highly rated PVP meta build right now and dominating. Such a choice!
And there will always be common-play builds. Adding new skills won’t change that, it just shifts attention to the new skills while others become “worthless.” Skills and traits would become a bloated, mostly-ignored mess, like GW1.
Streamlining options to make them more equivalent and play defining is the better design route. It’s about creating ‘incomparables’ that give actual choice instead of a dozen mediocre choices that don’t define play nearly as well.
I can say what you said much more forum friendly: “games are getting more stupid so lazy new players don’t have to learn them so we can sell more boxes; p.s. who cares about veterans, they’ve already paid”
see? I said the same without wall of text
And I can make your post even more forum friendly:
“There’s no such thing as lazy players”.See? I said the same as you with even less words.
More words coming, but also more precise:
Some people will complain about a game’s design without studying game design.
You hit the nail on the head, Diogo. Where other players kewkew about “dumbing down” and “removing options,” actual game designers are aiming for more elegant designs that give actual, useful choice instead of the illusion of choice.
What seems most ironic is that the people who want a thousand skills and traits, the illusion of choice, are the same ones who will follow metabuild guides limited to 3 or 4 optimizations, and then feel clever for doing so. Those same people will look at half of the traits and skills available and say “I never use those, ever. They suck. GAME NEEDS TO GIVE ME MORE SKILLS I WILL NEVER USE.”
Instead, the devs are looking at making each choice actually matter, much like Blizzard did with WoW. While it’s unfortunate that some of the non-6/6/2-6/4/4 builds aren’t going to be possible, it’s likely that the new traits will compress functionality into few, more potent options that might actually be desirable.
And people are mathing this out now. 196 thousand build combinations, before accounting for special class specs. Over 390 thousand including that. That is sufficient wiggle room, considering there will be maybe 50 meta builds that emerge.
They did boldly accentuate that nothing announced was yet set-in-stone. =)
Several times, in fact. They wanted to make it abundantly clear that their design choices haven’t finished yet.
So, now is the time to marshal the right support, gather your WvW-centric allies, and make constructive statements to the devs about your concerns. Here’s to hoping your WvW rewards are more suitable in the future.
You won’t find the typical raid grind, if that’s what you’re hoping for. (My friends expected as such, and they didn’t even make it to 80. :P)
Endgame is much more about identifying your own goals via achievements and long-term collections. I find I have plenty to do, if I want to aim for it.
There’s a few dungeons and fractals for more dungeon content. WvW/PvP is there if you’re into that.
There’s a few world bosses you can chip in on, no guild required (though it helps!)
It’s a bit unfortunate that some of the game’s high-level play evaporated when their previous Living Story segments ended, but Season 2 content is available with a little gold-to-gem conversion.
Forgive my rambling, though. There’s stuff to do, it’s just not up on a raid pedestal. :P
And welcome to the game! If you have any questions, you’ll find the community one of the better ones for helping out.
It would be greatly detrimental to Anet if they take toons that are currently fully traited and fully skilled and roll back any of that.
They would literally kill their game because many people will walk. i just can’t see them being that daft.
I’m not going to be that naive. I’m hopeful, but I can already envision how the code is likely to work. On first log-in:
Reset all trait/skill selections, lock stuff as necessary.
Convert skill points into Mystic Forge materials (or whatever purpose they will serve). This purges skill points from cheating the progression.
Grant Hero Points based on level. This will be a baseline number for the level 80s.
Scan the old skill point challenges for completion and grant Hero Points.
Done.
Players will spend accumulated Hero Points to re-craft their builds.
So, for as bitter as the OP has been about it (“hate” in the title? Really?), the devs do need to focus on getting more Hero Points out to the WvW crowd. It might even be a secondary reason for the new maps. Tucking Hero Point challenges at/near strategic goals would reward roamers and siegers for participating in WvW.
As for me, I’m already focusing on more world completion for my 80s. >.>
…
- When in the leveling process can we start accessing traits?
…This was actually answered— and the answer is good! Jon Peters said, “We will have more choices available to players at earlier phases in the game. We’re aiming to unlock specializations around level 20.”
Conveniently adjacent to the level 20 scrolls we’re holding onto for alts~
What anet is doing is confining us to 3 lines, and those lines automatically are maxed or near maxed depending on whether you want 5/6/5 or 6/6/4 and options in each line is extremely limited, there won’t be any originality in builds nor diversity.
Considering you get 6/6/6?
Probably not taking advice from ya. Just sayin’.
Racial skills would be fun if they were actually useful. Most aren’t compared to the class skills. They could always redesign them as class skills in some manner if they really don’t want racial advantages.
I wish they would work with actual traits. I’m fond of most of the Charr racials, and I’ve used Shrapnel Mine a ton while I was leveling. But, since they have no synergy, they fall out of use by endgame.
Short Answer: It won’t.
Long Answer: It won’t change the meta.
Longer Answer: It won’t change the meta, which will only be truly relevant in dungeon speedruns.
Guys, while those pix are cute, this is a charr thread. You can’t roleplay with kitty cats.
Says you. My friend RP’d a psychic kitty cat that took over people’s brains.
That Glitterboy never knew what hit him.
Sounds like Meowstic, the worlds mightiest pokemon. A Charr with that power would be too much for this world.
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Meowstic_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29
Oh, that reference is much older than teh Pokemons.
I’m talking Rifts. (No, not Rift, the muddy-graphics MMO with an overcomplicated skill tree and terrible writing.) And, no, Glitteryboy isn’t a slur on someone’s orientation. =P
Guys, while those pix are cute, this is a charr thread. You can’t roleplay with kitty cats.
Says you. My friend RP’d a psychic kitty cat that took over people’s brains.
That Glitterboy never knew what hit him.
What is Kralkatorrik’s favorite snack mascot?
Snaff, crackled and popped.
With a side of Zojja, apparently.
(Stole the first part from a prior thread. I still giggle at it.)
Thanks. That’s pretty darned solid.
To your second paragraph, that’s true, except when the distance to the nearest uncontested WP is long.
It’s a judgment call. Unless it takes you much longer to walk back than to get revived, it’s more considerate to walk back.
Like with Golem Mk II, just walk.
Tequatl, just walk.
Vinewrath? Not quite as sure. Might depend on which skritt tunnels are active.
But yeah, most of the time, do yourself and those around you a favor and waypoint. Your corpse may not scale the event, but getting 1-4 people to stop DPS to rez you isn’t a good thing.
So that also means they’ve changed direction on the whole “new ways to gain skill points after level 80” thing. OK, fair enough.
Would still like Anet to chime in on gold spent by players on this current system and if we are seeing this new one roled to core before or with HoT.
I wouldn’t count on any way of getting money and skill points back. There likely isn’t a reliable way to track expenditures per character (even if there was a metric to determine purchases) versus ones that were owned from pre-April-2014 or earned during BadTraits2.0.
Probably a good idea to save your pennies and points now and hope that we get the new system released well in advance of HoT.
I like the changes a lot. Seperating stats from traits is the best move they have done.
Did they really say the only way to get stats is from armor/weapons?
I suspect a fraction of stats will be a bonus to choosing a trait line, similar to how attunement reduction is slotted for Arcane specialization. I wouldn’t entirely rule out stat bonuses, just not the +300 Power for the strength trait line we had before.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/specializations-part-one-a-primer/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/specializations-part-two-reward-tracks-and-elite-specializations/
DISCUSS.
I saw this Charr user in CoF once…
Charr is Hard
say it in one go. srs. it’s pure genius.
Oh please, Charr aren’t that difficult. Except for jumping puzzles.
…ohwait. I see what you did there. XD
With all the nice staff posting pictures, I feel kind of bad wanting to make this into a trait agenda post. But I’ll behave instead.
Every new character i’ve rolled i’ve had a moment of decision. To level up in pve, or just use tomes?
Before trait change and npe, i always leveled in pve. Now i blast through tomes because holy kitten kitten that noise. The first 30 levels might as well not even exist with such a stripped down character.
Inversely, I find the 20-30 stretch somewhat tolerable, since there’s still skill points and such to invest in. (Birthday scroll 20s for the win, though, because agreed, kitten that noise.)
But after 30, after getting that first trait point, I realize how utterly braindead the trait hunt design was. Case in point, I was going to prod a guildie into some combo trait-hunt/RP time, for giggles. I looked at the list and had the following thoughts:
“100% Blazeridge? F that.”
“Are half of these in WvW? We’re not even on the same server.”
“That trait almost looks reasonable. I wonder if he needs it. Oh wait, it’s in a zone 10 levels too high for him.”
“Maybe I’ll just buy a few.”
“…10 silver a piece and skill points to tacitly support this [expletive]? No thanks.”
“Now I regret bringing it up. Time to apologize and log out.”
After nearly 100 pages of We Hate This text, ANet, can we at least get a hint of the huge apology you’re coding for us? Please?
I know it’s a sarcasm but in case a dev comes here (I know they won’t) disabling a game mechanic is the worst possible solution. They did it with marlona and reflects. Good job. Like skills or traits don’t matter, just smash it with dps and dodge attacks. This would be even worse than it is.
Yeah, it was sarcasm. =P
And I was pretty mad when I heard about the non-reflectable attacks. It’s not appropriate to break a game mechanic so blatantly.
Conversely, I’m of the opinion that everything in the game should take critical damage, or damage on coded objects should take normalized damage:
Condition damage normally ignored should be rolled into damage against objects.
Base damage should increase according to Precision/Ferocity on objects.
Eh, just code all the bosses as objects, like Tequatl. Crits won’t happen, so 2/3 of zerk is pointless.
Then everyone will use Soldier gear, which has no easy way to earn (better do those Guild Missions, boyos!), or maybe 1 of 5 dungeon runners will have a condi build.
That’ll fix everything.
Hey buddy, you can get soldier gear from AC dungeons
it’s Sentinel taht’s locked behind guild missions… and no one would use that.
I stand corrected!
I was being sarcastic anyway, so nyeh. :P
It’s pretty sad that people seem so intent on fussing about years-old content that’s been farmed to death, because some people know the fights from hundreds of runs.
As much as the elitism runs rampant, I can agree on something very simple:
It really isn’t that hard. :\
Eh, just code all the bosses as objects, like Tequatl. Crits won’t happen, so 2/3 of zerk is pointless.
Then everyone will use Soldier gear, which has no easy way to earn (better do those Guild Missions, boyos!), or maybe 1 of 5 dungeon runners will have a condi build.
That’ll fix everything.
A trait system that doesn’t suck for a year under languishing silence from the developers.
Oh, and OP’s #3 is cool too. Scaling dungeon content, yes.
We have enough fancy outfits now.
I want a hobo outfit, or a beach outfit. Gimme gimme gimme.
Beach outfit, yes.
Also, heavy armor that isn’t fraufrau or Why Am I On Fire would be great.
Ehrm.. no? It’s still for sale for 1000gems. Just checked to make sure. It’s been there for a few months at least.
Ayup. Still there. The price of my sweet, sweet gold mine (literally?) has held mostly steady though continues to drop over time.
I am woe. ;_\\
I’d pay gems to buy the Azurite sigil. =P (Because cash-money, yo)
Or maybe a Sickle sigil that can farm Mystic Clovers.
I can see potential in this idea.
Expand it to all Soulbound minis? Because seriously Jennah, I want to quit you, but I can’t.
Right now, this is what it feels like.
At this point, it’s a little silly to have the assets in game and not capitalize on them.
The town clothes had dye channels before, and models are obviously still available, since the tonics use them.
As Outfits exist, there’s no more reason to assume that armor weight recognition means anything.
There weren’t that many tonics anyway, if I recall: Town clothes, khaki set, leather hoodie. I’m sure there were a few others that were sold (and subsequently refunded during the wardrobe change). Reintroducing those items as sets with dye channels is a short, easy way to farm up some gem revenue and foster a smidgen of good will to the players.
It’s a win-win, ANet. So, c’mon. C’moooon~
Welcome, welcome!
If you ever feel too noob-nervous to ask questions, be sure to check out the /wiki command. It’s a convenient way to get from in game to the official wiki.
There’s also the Players Helping Players section of the forums.
So welcome again, to the friendly and most helpful MMO community I know of.
As I understand it, the forums are at a standstill because Arenanet doesn’t have the manpower/knowledge on how to deal with them. They made the mistake of being convinced that a custom solution would provide all their needs, instead of using one of any number of proven stable solutions that already exist and are used by their competitors.
+1 for your signature XD
As much as I’d love to see a feature like the OP wants, the rumor is the company they contracted to create the forums is no longer under contract, and they can’t make adjustments to it at this time.
This is literally about just adding the classic town clothes as a free out fit….that’s it.
A dev decided to merge a completely different outfit suggestion thread into this one.
Admittedly, the one it merged to came first. =P
But yes, I support the Town Clothes as Outfit stance. (Obviously.) If they wanted to put in loads of extra work to make town clothes mix-and-match, that’d be awesome, but I really doubt they will. Outfit with refurbished dye channels isn’t hard to ask for.
And not just town clothes, but all the outfit pieces they sold as town clothes that are now tonics. I have a few I’d love to have dye channels on and use, so re-adding them as outfits (and actually selling them again) would be fantastic.
Mix and match for town clothes wouldn’t have been the best option. Odds are, it follows the cloth framework, which doesn’t match up with medium/heavy frames. Outfits allow the entire frame to be used, so any character can use them, regardless of class/armor weight.
I just.. wow.
Grats, even though I metaphorically hate you right now.
Might be time to buy a lotto ticket, Charrbeque.
An axiom of advice on character development:
Trauma breeds drama.
Throw your character into something of conflict, and see how he emerges from it. How much you can do that will depend on how much you can interact with your surroundings and extend your imagination.
Though, doing it by yourself might not yield much. Having another player along for the ride can add a fresh element to otherwise unchanging or repetitive scripted events.
Greeeat. Even more useless frogs to murder. …goody.
I hated the hylek anyway, and having two new versions that are unsubtlely polar opposites is fairly high-school level writing that carries a somewhat obvious “good” and “evil” faction theme.
I was actively ticked off by that announcement being considered more important than even a glimpse of the “upcoming” trait fix.
New Trait System = MAXIMUM HYPE GENERATION
But they won’t do it, so instead, everyone who could have been converted into buying the expansion is fed up and leaving. For the steaming pile of ESO, no less. :\
Not affiliated with ArenaNet or NCSOFT. No support is provided.
All assets, page layout, visual style belong to ArenaNet and are used solely to replicate the original design and preserve the original look and feel.
Contact /u/e-scrape-artist on reddit if you encounter a bug.