Guild Wars 2

Played around with builds a bit more, and have come to the conclusion that S/P IS indeed the superior option.

This is the build that I am using as of now. 30s turnover time, with 5 gambits.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsaVlcmyOHcy4E95Ey2jeqC5J/DklODa6lA-j0yAYLBRiCAZBiKAm8IiWTfg1zioxqrxUuCRa3UbzLiWNA-w

The character you enjoy and play more.

No point having Sunrise on a character that you don’t play. Especially if all you want to do is show it off.

striyder.8351:

At first I’ve used Reikou’s method, but i got lazy to lay down ambush trap and smoke screen. I ended up using Signet of Agility, Assassin’s Signet, and Scorpion Wire don’t really have to use Thieve’s Guild and I’ve tried out 5 gambits all the same 4 but I added in Crowd favorite. First thing you do is scorpion wire deadeye drop your blinding powder, steal, and try not to move much so the Quaggan wont run towards you. You should be able to dps him down the same way and if the Quaggan run towards you make sure you have a blinding powder on both of them or you will probably die.

Yeah I’ve also moved to a similar strat. Still using Ambush Trap, but it works in a similar way.

For those looking for a more visual explanation, please look at this.

http://www.twitch.tv/ailesdelumiere/b/444673370

Xenon.4537:

Stacking in the corner to kill spider queen, subject alpha, etc. doesn’t show any skill at all. Yes it’s faster, efficient, better, etc. but that’s exactly why it doesn’t show skill… it requires no skill. Being able to dodge the attacks normally and fight the boss normally is a sign of skill. Being clever enough to stack is simply a sign of efficiency.

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html

“The scrub has still more crutches. He talks a great deal about “skill” and how he has skill whereas other players—very much including the ones who beat him flat out—do not have skill. The confusion here is what “skill” actually is. In Street Fighter, scrubs often cling to combos as a measure of skill. A combo is a sequence of moves that is unblockable if the first move hits. Combos can be very elaborate and very difficult to pull off. But single moves can also take “skill,” according to the scrub. The “dragon punch” or “uppercut” in Street Fighter is performed by holding the joystick toward the opponent, then down, then diagonally down and toward as the player presses a punch button. This movement must be completed within a fraction of a second, and though there is leeway, it must be executed fairly accurately. Ask any scrub and they will tell you that a dragon punch is a “skill move.”

I once played a scrub who was actually quite good. That is, he knew the rules of the game well, he knew the character matchups well, and he knew what to do in most situations. But his web of mental rules kept him from truly playing to win. He cried cheap as I beat him with “no skill moves” while he performed many difficult dragon punches. He cried cheap when I threw him five times in a row asking, “Is that all you know how to do? Throw?” I gave him the best advice he could ever hear. I told him, “Play to win, not to do ‘difficult moves.’” This was a big moment in that scrub’s life. He could either ignore his losses and continue living in his mental prison or analyze why he lost, shed his rules, and reach the next level of play.

I’ve never been to a tournament where there was a prize for the winner and another prize for the player who did many difficult moves. I’ve also never seen a prize for a player who played “in an innovative way.” (Though chess tournaments do sometimes have prizes for “brilliancies,” moves that are strokes of genius.) Many scrubs have strong ties to “innovation.” They say, “That guy didn’t do anything new, so he is no good.” Or “person X invented that technique and person Y just stole it.” Well, person Y might be one hundred times better than person X, but that doesn’t seem to matter to the scrub. When person Y wins the tournament and person X is a forgotten footnote, what will the scrub say? That person Y has “no skill” of course."

Referring to fighting games, but it is analogous to what is being discussed here.

Travlane.5948:

Reikou.7068:

Travlane.5948:

well since its already out the bag. there is an easier way to do it….more gambits is more profit per run. saves in the end especially when u are farmin for a while

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBkhDuYe99U

enjoy

More profit/risk per run but a lower turnover rate.

how each fight was shorter than the s/p one. i use improvisation so i get back my skills 50% of the time.

You seem to have to wait for Haste to come back up, which is on a 60s CD with a 20% chance to recharge on Steal due to Improvisation.

Sig of Malice/Scorpion Wire/Ambush Trap/Assassin’s Sig can rinse/repeat the whole rotation from talking to the NPC’s, fighting and killing Deadeye, and back to talking to NPCs all in about 35s down to the last second.

While each individual fight with your setup may be shorter, the turnover is longer because you need to wait for skill recharges.

Please tell me if I am wrong though.

That said, I have also tried doing it with 5 gambits and it definitely works just as well.

YuiRS.8129:

Pokemon isn’t so bad. It’s a surprisingly deep mechanics for a kiddie game, that’s why many sad, sad adults keep playing it. Me included.

I’m definitely not saying it is.

I’m really looking forward for X&Y coming out in October!

Dat deep yet balanced and EVOLVING metagame.

Dat complex play and counterplay.

Dat high level of yomi.

Dat superior shoutcasting, and easy to understand spectator mode.

Dat SUSPENSE.

Dat eSports.

I think the most populous servers for Asia/Oceanic timezone would be either Jade Quarry or Sea of Sorrows.

Honestly though, as of now, you’re going to feel like an “outcast,” whichever server you go to because open world PvE simply isn’t populated anymore.

Kavia.8249:

In my hypothetical scenario, you would have two players fighting over a point and trying to take it either though forcing the opponent off of the point or killing them. Simply holding a neut but not being able to kill or take the node in <60 seconds is still stalemate. If the player could walk up on a node capped for the opponent, knock them off and keep them off enough to cap it in <60 seconds, that would probably be advantage to the assaulting profession. I believe that scenario is extremely rare at the moment. Most of the debunkering scenarios of a bomb/flamethrower engi best suited for that task are stalemate because while he may get a neut, he’s probalby not gunna cap the node or kill the opposing bunker in <60 seconds.

Bunker guard is extremely durable in a 1v1 scenario when they have their cooldowns available, so all their matchups end up stalemate except for classes with extremely high damage pressure and boon removal.

Evade thief’s pressure is probably not sufficient to efficiently debunk a guard. I’ve watched some duels from Jumper v Acandis even when Larcenous Strike was more powerful – it still took Jumper quite a long time to kill him, probably >60 seconds.

Similar scenario for guard v engi and guard v spirit ranger.

Engi may be able to force a neut on the guard but is not going to kill him in <60 seconds unless the guard screws up. Maybe in a different meta where the engi is HgH he would be able to kill the guard, but if the guard brings sanctuary, wall of reflection, OR shield of the avenger as he might if HgH was popular, the fight is stalemate again.

Guard vs ranger I don’t believe the ranger has enough diversity of condi to prevent easy cleanses from the guard, and has no means of boon removal. I don’t think you can call that match anything but a stalemate (gunna be a long fight!).

I see.

If the criteria to determine a stalemate is 60 seconds then I agree with most of your ratings.

Chipster.6713:

What you call skill is what I call clever abuse of in-game mechanics..
All people ever do is rush dungeons, finding bug spots, where they can rush to in order to skip mobs, then do the bosses ( that they also know a certain abusive way to defeat).

People who do it the old fashioned way are, by your standards, called “unskilled?”

Quite frankly? Yes.

The game doesn’t care how you do it, only that you do it.

Anelyn.4593:

Do what I do, go stealth, pop 2 phantasms, make a portal to troll him so he can’t hit you, and when you pop 3rd phantasm is already GG xD

so all a decent thief will do is CnD chain the phantasms until dead.

Peetee.9406:

Because you’re deriving happiness from the misfortune of other players.

Whether or not someone receives a mini or an achievement does not affect you. To deny them happiness just for the sake of your bragging rights is not good behavior.

The title of this thread should not be “entitled players vs skilled players”, it should be “regular players vs jerks”.

Unfortunately, in a world with unlimited wants and very limited resources, this is the only way to derive happiness.

To take away what could potentially make someone else happy.

Travlane.5948:

well since its already out the bag. there is an easier way to do it….more gambits is more profit per run. saves in the end especially when u are farmin for a while

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBkhDuYe99U

enjoy

More profit/risk per run but a lower turnover rate.

Turn around and walk away. You won’t kill him, but he can’t touch you either.

Its a stale mate fight.

Mermers are very susceptible to condi in general, and its not just thief condi.

Auesis.7301:

I noticed you never try to land a HS for a backstab. Any reason for that? I would have done that once or twice, I think. If it’s a problem with initiative, I’d probably do it through Smoke Screen instead of Black Powder.

I can’t play until later this week, so I’ll try it for myself then.

Mostly because it takes too much effort to walk to the back of the target and really doesn’t add much damage. Keep in mind you are constantly walking around at crippled speed, and while you’re trying to reposition for a backstab, you can be autoattacking instead.

That said, I have modified the build to allow for slightly faster kill-times.
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlcmyOnby4E95Ey2jeqC5J/DklODaqlA-j0yAYLBRiCAZBiKAm8IiWTfg1zioxqrxUuCRa3UbzLiWNA-w

Just get him to about 30%’ish health using the same strategy, and spam heartseeker until dead.

If you find an empty room and keep going back-to-back, you can easily get 60+ runs per hour, and about 20g/hr.

Peetee.9406:

What players want is content that is just difficult enough that they can complete but others cant, so they can wear it as a trophy around their neck and brag about it. That kind of behavior should not be encouraged, at least not here.

Why not?

Honestly, these are the only “achievements,” or “titles,” worth anything in a game.

That said, LFM Arah P1. Liadri Mini players only.

S/D Evasion thief, ala Jumper style for GvG would be good I think for training down squishy targets.

Other than that, I don’t suggest you play one.

I think its a bit of both.

Anet was hoping for players to play the game and do things in game simply because they are “fun,” regardless of rewards. This mentality can be seen in all aspects of the game, PvE, WvW and sPvP. Unfortunately (perhaps other than sPvP,) we have seen that this is a very flawed concept, and it has turned out that players enjoy getting rewards as well. This, coupled with the absolute failure of the game when it comes to general PvE mechanics makes the game neither “fun,” nor “rewarding,” at all.

All in all, I do believe that the game requires a complete balance overhaul. Not so much class balance, but more regarding infrastructure and mechanics. Rewards and balance for dynamic events need to be re-calculated and redone. Some “core” PvE game mechanics and designs need to be thrown out the window (Defiant) etc. And get rid of shared loot/rewards. Honestly this is the single biggest reason why the game’s PvE is stale. This in and of itself is the reason why zerging even occurs, and zerging simply trivializes anything and everything that can be done in PvE. Remove it.

I do think that with some of the newer PvE things, specifically Liadri, that Anet is finally getting the picture. IMO, all bosses in this game should be similar to Liadri in terms of “difficulty.” From the Shatterer, to the wurm in Twilight Arbor.

Just for the record, I stand with Jasher on this discussion. Warriors have advantage over Spirit Rangers, namely due to lack of stunbreak on Spirit Rangers, and Warrior’s access to Berserker Stance.

Hey Kavia, great post. About time we had a decent matchup thread to see where classes actually stand tier-wise.

I would just like to ask though, what sort of situation are we looking at? In an open field/free to kite or run around wherever and discussing just combat? Or attempting to capture a node, and where node capture means advantage?

If it is not free roaming/combat-focused tier list, but instead a hold-a-node style tier-list, I personally think that the Bunker Guardian holds a disadvantage vs Evade Thief, Spirit Ranger, and Kit Engineer.

Honestly, you don’t. Maybe try to permablind them with black powder, but if they have berserker stance, gg.

Stun Warriors are easily one of the most powerful builds in the game at the moment, and unfortunately thief builds aren’t exactly in the top-tier what so ever.

The S/D thief only works if it has other allies to peel for it when it is being focused.

Just a quick little guide on how to quickly farm the Queen’s Gauntlet boss “Deadeye Dunwell,” for gold.

http://www.twitch.tv/ailesdelumiere/c/2727963

Build used is the following.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlcmyOnbS9E95Ey2jeqC5J/DklODaqlA-j0yAYLBRiCAZBiKAm8IiWTfg1zioxqrxUuCRa3UbzLiWNA-w

A similar strategy can be done with all 5 gambits as well.

EDIT 14/8/2013 UPDATE:
Modified build to the following:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsaVlcmyOHcy4E95Ey2jeqC5J/DklODa6lA-j0yAYLBRiCAZBiKAm8IiWTfg1zioxqrxUuCRa3UbzLiWNA-w

I think they should add PvP-unique skins that can only be acquired through s/tPvP.

They should also do something similar with WvW. WvW-unique skins that can only be acquired through WvW.

I do kinda wish they added more Sylvari-themed gem-store gear.

We already have Asura/Human (Aetherblade/Magitech), Norn (Brahm) and Human (Phoenix) gear.

want some plant-themed gear.

I did it my first time with shortbow…

I don’t see why this is challenging at all. Just kite, keep shooting the owner, and infiltrator to the meat when he throws it.

hooma.9642:

the story behind that it was mentioned already.. saying things 1000 times doesnt change anything..

i dont say that isnt a problem.. but hearing that from a guy who abuse them and was 6 months silenced and only is mad, cause anet has banned him, doesnt help the problem.. it makes it to a joke

So you are attacking Helseth and not the argument presented.

Alright, well, good luck with that.

hooma.9642:

so why mention then things already mentioned if he uses the advantage of the problems? if all ppl jump off a bridge he needs too, to be competive? i dont think soo.

he just a kid who looses his toy..

Just because he “abuses” this issue does not mean that it is not a problem that needs to be addressed.

He is just using the best available work around at the moment.

Could be interesting, but at the very end of the day it would have to come down to competition.

Perhaps you could have dungeon speed run races, and award it to the fastest group, or something similar to that.

Truth and Justice.

I personally think its great.

Some of the weaponsets need better balance tweaking, and as brought up earlier, more utility skills need to be usable.

However, in general water combat in this game is pretty well done.

Many of the terrestrial combat strategies also work underwater, which I think is a nice touch.

Dagraan.2854:

if you are a mesmer and ele under water you rule the oceans like aquaman wishes he could.
if you’re a thief underwater then whats wrong with you?

This is one of the most powerful classes underwater.

worst Engi NA.

Build does nothing.

Danikat.8537:

Even if it was entirely skill based it wouldn’t have the effect the OP seems to be looking for.

The nearest comparison to that, off the top of my head, is Arah gear. You can only get it with tokens and you can only get tokens from completing the dungeon, which is in theory the hardest (definitely the longest) in the game.

But how do you react if you see someone else in a full set a Arah gear? Are you impressed? Do you see it as a sign that they’re obviously a skilled player? (Or at least good at that one dungeon?) Do you even notice?

At the end of the day it’s a persons actions that are going to set them apart, not their gear, no matter how they got it.

If you want a way to build up a reputation as an exceptional player then start leading groups in WvW, organise events for your guild and try to get other people/guilds involved. Organise events for your whole server. Help people with dungeon runs.

Do something to earn that reputation instead of looking for a token that will grant it by default.

Dunno. If I see someone with an “X of the Arena” title, I’m pretty impressed, and know for a fact that these guys are skilled players.

Its never worked.

Kanji works simply because Chinese characters work.

Just type romaji like the rest of us.

They need to make acquisition of legendaries completely skill based and not grind based.

The only thing in this game that is worth anything are the old Qualifier Point titles from sPvP, because they were somewhat skill-based.

As of now, the only thing skill-based in this game is still PvP. However, it cannot be tied to sPvP rank, because that is still a grind-based achievement.

Perhaps something like participating and winning 50-100 “high-ranked,” PvP matches.

or Completing all dungeon paths faster than 99% of the Population.

etc.

I maintain that the absolute biggest failure of Guild Wars 2 is that anything and everything achievable in this game can just be grinded. This is obviously to please the “Everyones a winner!” crowd, but honestly, it cheapens the value of everything in the game.

Include #TeamBAM.

ensoriki.5789:

Draedark.8193:

Interesting idea but then the door would be open for the opposite progression:
PvP progression from PvE/WvW. Also the reward system would need an overhaul else fresh 80s would emerge from the mists poor and in level 1 gear…

Progress how? Rank? Glory? Only mix I would do is the pvp minigames in pve would give glory, maybe a fraction amount for wvw. Though since glory is near useless it wouldnt matter.

option to turn PvE gear into PvP gear.

Well with the new Account Wallet thing being added in Aug. 6, perhaps we can start seeing a Glory → PvE Reward exchange?

AikijinX.6258:

I sense people getting frustrated, and antsy.

Alright so I guess now is the right time to release this build (which is unfinished). You guys were smart with how you thought of the x6 Runes of Altruism and food item. But I already went down that path. Myself and partner already ran multiple tests, and no overlapping boon affects could be made. So with that being said. Here it is.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYUQNAsYVlYmaPHdS+E/5ExWhe69gsj1sdPuKXzKA-jUDBoNCiUDQ0EA0ygZRFRjtIcaslSBRVTQWvAT9KpmcI2couEYyAUNGA-w

As I said before this is for support, and and self production of permanent real overlapping boons. (Vigor, Swiftness, Fury, Might). My team and I are working on trying to incorporate more damage, but still being able to sustain, while maintaining the same structure.

The downside to this build is that you have little condition cleanser, which could easily be substituted out for 0/0/10/30/30. But to incorporate the permanent fury aspect of the build I had to gain the furious retaliation trait. So necro’s would eat you up. But if you are careful like I am and know how to play S/D well it should not be an issue 8/10 times you fight one.

My partner will be making a condition build that works around this same boonmaniac structure. So please stay alert for that.

What a terrible build.

0 combat potential at all.

Not to mention straight up lying to the community to try to hide some “secret,” when the (obvious) answer was given 2 posts in. (30 Trickery + Boon duration.)

Did I mention, what a terrible build?

Maintain Perma Might/Fury/Swiftness/Vigor.

Barebones:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQBSyZK4UiYTBAEa/BuC-jUABFhFRjFA-w

May be supplemented with 30 trickery in order to help with the Might/Fury/Swiftness/Vigor sustain

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQBSyZK4ciYTBAEq3DyOWz2fgrA-jUABFhFRjFA-w

Or complimented with other more combat-useful traits at the cost of some swiftness downtime.

Do you really expect Anet to balance for the absolute lowest common denominator?

Thief is “easy,” because it is relatively easy to gank with and get kills on.

To be honest, the difference between a good thief and a bad thief is not so much getting kills and ganks. That is a given. Its everything else.

Chullster.3608:

I’m not frustrated with TP flippers, I just think the game would be better itself if people were encouraged to make in gold by playing the game itself.

I’m sorry if I came across as someone disgruntled with the lack of money making options, which I’m not.

Heres a little tip.

Stop trying to “work for money,” and instead perhaps try to have “money work for you.”

Both in game and IRL.

Buff? Aside from obvious things like “Providing combo fields,”

For boons; 10 in Trickery for “Thrill of the Crime,” 20 in Trickery for “Bountiful Theft,” and 30 in Trickery for “Sleight of Hand.”
All this in total provides (at least) 50% up-time on Fury/Swiftness, and a good chance at a 75% up time on Vigor for allies.

Signet of Agility’s active clears 1 Condi and recovers all endurance for allies in Range.

30 in Shadow Arts allows a Thief to get Venomous Aura, which allows the Thief to share Venoms, a combination of Spider, Skale, Devourer, and Basilisk being rather potent at the moment. This combined with the 20 in Shadow Arts for Leaching Venoms allows for some mediocre AoE healing.

Shortbow #2 is by far the best blast finisher in the game.

Do people want thieves in Dungeons? Honestly, no. Thieves provide (almost) nothing that other classes in the game cannot do better.

Other things that thieves can do which are helpful. Provide stealth for Allies, although this isn’t an exclusively thief thing.

Yes, the game should be dumbed down even more for incompetents.

Slightly updated the look of my Sylvari Thief and Mesmer. Also adding pics of Town Clothes!

Travlane.5948:

i actually agree with the comment. or atleast put in longer videos…not 20 sec clips of spectacular moments…. we all have those and the more time it takes you to make a video the more moments you have. i PERSONALLY find it more enjoyable to see howt he build / thief works in reality. not just .01% of the time. this comment isnt a dig…i just prefer longer clips so its hows the real thief/build not just a few sparkling moments.

Then you are welcome to come watch my stream.

http://www.twitch.tv/ailesdelumiere

TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586:

Raven.9603:

All that footage of last matchup and you left out the parts where Torrid beat you?

What’s the purpose of recording loses?…

I’m not too sure myself. I would have liked to fight him 1v1, but it was kind of difficult given that the Torrid person was never really by himself.

Hype.8032:

You should have let that warrior go around 8 min… I felt really bad for him haha! I thought you played really well. If I can offer some constructive criticism I think you were too quick to move into heartseakers. A few more autoattacks when they’re ~40% health may have served you better.

That being said, I play 10/30/0/0/30 in spvp and I love it. I haven’t found that it scales to wvw as well so I’ll give you props for making it work for you! Have you tried 0/30/20/20/0 or 0/30/30/10/0?

Thanks for the feedback. I personally do not very much enjoy 30 shadowarts builds in WvW as I find that they’re incredibly boring to both play with and play against. Its a great attrition build, but I really don’t think attrition builds have a place in WvW. Not to mention it would be incredibly boring to watch as well.

15 in Acrobatics, Vigorous Recovery, Withdraw and Signet of Agility.

If you cycle the dodges (swiftness on dodges) and withdraw/signet of Agility properly, you can get perma swiftness.

Just wanted to post this here and get feedback, especially on gameplay.

The build I am using is glass 10/30/0/0/30 D/P and Shortbow.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYUQNAoaVlUmaPHdS5E/5Ey2jdqC5JvHk1YZWaFoJA-j0yAYLioRiSwILJiKAm8IiWTfg1zioxqrxUuCRa3UbzLiWNA-w

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=Ve;4Rw-_06-V-Fd0;9;49T;0T2;025A;446BINV4-BW4F18ZF18Zm-FS-A-6-N_scOVTWYXc214o_-oVJs1q;5k22Bk-Ewy

Lol “dispute.”

There is no dispute about anything. DH players being sub-par is a given, and I for one don’t really care to waste time trying to re-prove facts when I have other things to do with my time.