>_>
kittenmit pvpers…https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/eu/pvp
is not online
is not working
but they have the data althought internalyppl can loose all they want in purpose for the rewards
When the leaderboards is online then their Rank/Win%/Placement on the Leaderboards will be ……… ??? (pop quiz)
>_>
well those leaderboards weren’t even reset. So lol.
First, I think this is an old system with a new UI.
Second, I truly believe if you win you should get a pip, but it shouldn’t the be only factor. Moving up ranks because your team wins, especially if you’re a soloq player, is just luck of who you’re placed with it doesn’t mean you’re any more or less skilled than another player. I wanted something that rewards skill on individual level more than a team level.
the way I see it, it currently is pretty much just a reskin of the old and hated grind leaderboards, all with the same issues and loopholes.
Bumping because i saw this coming a mile away.
It sucks that he’s being handicapped so heavily in some games. However, if gaining pips is his main concern and he knows 4-man premades are incredibly advantageous for doing so, why doesn’t he himself queue in a group of 4?
Because that was totally the point of the video, about how to farm pips, and not about how the infrastructure remains terrible in GW2’s PvPz
still boggles my mind why they didn’t just axe MMR completely when introducing leagues, and let the divisions speak for themselves.
Right now the league system is just a prettier reskinned version of the old grind leaderboards that everyone hated.
While I understand where Caed is coming from, in my opinion, you simply cannot look at the class in an MMO in a vacuum when talking about balance as its all about relativity.
Its like trying to judge the value of the number “1” and saying “1” is fine.
Yes “1” might be fine in and of itself, but compared to the numbers “2” or “3” it is a small number. Compared to the number “0” it is big, and overall in the sequence of “0, 1, 2, and 3” “1” is a relatively small number.
Yes thief is “fine,” and the other classes need to be toned down. Alternatively Thief is underpowered relative to the other classes.
That said I also do agree with caed’s stance on power creep in the overall game, and would prefer the game not to have so much of it.
So long as key identifiers such as MMR/Elo/whatever you want to call it remain hidden, this will continue to perpetuate.
The primary problem is that GW2 is just not a good spectator sport, for a lot of reasons. There’s one really huge thing though:
No Buildup
In mobas and SC2 (which covers about 95% of esports) the matches have a very clear progression from start to finish. You start with building strength, manouvering, developing strategies. Then you progress into execution, realization of the initial strategies, more manouvering for endgame, and then finally the climax of huge fights and game-winning or game-losing decisions.
GW2 pvp starts out as a muddle of teamfights and rotations, continues as a muddle of teamfights and rotations, and ends as a muddle of teamfights and rotations. Very rarely do big plays happen, very rarely is there one spectacular moment, never is there a broad strategy developed over 15 minutes and finally executed flawlessly.
There’s nothing to keep you watching, nothing to really keep you engaged and locked into a match, and that means people will tune in, watch a teamfight or two, and then tune out without any sense of wanting to stick around for more.
I honestly don’t know how this could be fixed, because it’s a really fundamental problem with how the PvP in this game was built, but it’s an explanation as to why.
I personally think this is a big part of it. There isn’t any sort of match progression. No “Early game/Mid game/Late game” thing. Except for maybe Foefire, which has the lord thing at 350. Even Temple’s buffs are just a huge scramble that happens over and over. Perhaps having the buffs scale and becoming more powerful as you go? 1130 Stillness, 830 Tranq, 530 Supertranq (All buffs + Tranq AND stillness,) then maybe 230 you just outright win the game.
I have no idea why people say warrior is easy to play. Each class has to worry about certain skills and certain motions from classes to evade. Warriors have never had blinks and the ability to straight up escape. When people lose to a warrior they just get mad and throw salt.
I recently had a dh say after i beat him, nice rampage. The next time we fought i was sitting on point and he came straight for me. I won that fight and I wrote “GF” and he replied F**** You and went on to say in map chat that warrior dps is broken.
No matter what class it is, he takes a certain amount of skill to play it at a effective level. Are some classes easier then others, yes but it doesnt change that fact that certain players dominate others because of the skill.
You come out and say it yourself. Warrior is easier to play than others, and thus in comparison to the other classes, “Warrior is easy to play.”
RiotLyte’s response is interesting indeed, but as they’ve stated they have backup plans behind backup plans, and are much more open and willing to communicate this with their players than anet is. A quick response to negative feedback within a day or two.
The current mixed queue system has been a huge point of contention for over a year now, and I find it quite disconcerting that the devs at anet have not even begun to touch the subject with a 20 foot spork.
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Reikou mentioned separate leaderboard and MMR.
I think the elephant in the room still is the population in GW2.
I want to believe that a combined board will work out, there are concerns though for sure.
I’m not sure why population would be an issue for MMR and leaderboards themselves?
If anything population would be an issue for matchmaking and queues.
Hence my proposal, combined matchmaking/queue, but separated MMR and leaderboards.
If you queue by yourself, you are put into the combined queue, but it will use your solo MMR for matchmaking and the results of the match will affect your solo leaderboard ranking.
If you duo+ queue, it will use your team queue MMR for matchmaking, and the results of the match will affect your team queue leaderboard ranking.
Hopefully this will make more sense.
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I could see that. Being able to filter the leaderboard by different categories, like those who only solo/duo or something.
You still have a situation of potential bad queue experiences though.
Not so much filter the leaderboard by different categories, but having completely separate leaderboards altogether.
I would much prefer having a separate Solo Queue and Team queue with separate leaderboards and MMR. However, I could see a situation where there is a combined queue and matchmaking system, but a separate leaderboard and MMR for when an individual queues solo, and when an individual queues with friends (duo or more.)
I think a situation/compromise like that would be a viable solution for a game like GW2, as it allows for both faster queue times and all the benefits that come with a combined queue, while still allowing solo queuing to be a viable “competitive” solution. for those who chooses to partake in it.
The only thing that would suffer is match quality, where as you say, the higher MMR solo queuers would start getting put against full teams and farmed, which is absolutely no fun. The only respite being that anyone else that high on the solo queue leaderboard/MMR would be facing the same situations as well, and when you solo queue you’re only really competing against other people who are solo queuing as well.
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bumping this up as well.
This may also be related, but in order to make Marauder (Power/Precision/Ferocity/Vit) insignias, you need Ebony Orbs which are Power/Toughness/Ferocity/Healing, which kind of makes no sense. Either the item Agate Orb has the wrong stats, or Ebony Orb has the wrong stats.
The achievement “Avoid Traps” for the Heart of Thorns mission “Strange Observations” is bugged and does not register.
or
http://www.twitch.tv/ailesdelumiere/v/22239256
For those who want to spoil themselves.
Also I guess a discussion thread about the end of Heart of Thorns.
Just going to put it out there for those who are going to try this fight soon. Its quite buggy, so you might need to reset a few times like I did.
While I do think some of the Thief traits need to be made baseline, I don’t think it should be the daredevil dodges..
Personally I’d prefer to see both Mug and Bountiful Theft made baseline, if anything to go with the whole “stealing” theme.
Only 200 point margins?
Given i didnt have 9 losses in a row, but my two last night were complete roflecurbstomps. My teams got eaten alive -_-u
Previos 3 matches, two of those matches my team did the same thing to the enemy.
I’d say the final score of the game doesn’t really reflect any sort of difference in skill, but more of the strategy the opponents took.
If every member of team A is 99% as skilled as every member of team B, but team B employs a 3 point strat and wins every fight due to that 1% skill difference, the score will still be closer to 500-0, and not 500-495.
I too would like to inquire about Solo Queue Grouch.
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My biggest issue with thief at the moment is that the class is completely dependent on the competence of the other 4 players on your team.
If you have 4 other players who can already win their fights and rotate well, the thief will just help you win by a larger and safer margin.
If you have 4 players that cannot win their fights, the thief is just a liability.
For example, if your team has a 5v5 teamfight in mid and the other 4 wipe, there is literally nothing you can do as a thief to help your team win until all at least one other player on your team respawns. You can’t challenge an opponent to hold a cap or neut at home. Can’t really decap and hold a neut at far. If you try to help an ally push a side point to 2v1 someone, your team will probably wipe 3v4. If you push a 5v5 again your team will probably lose. If you try to keep one opponent occupied by threatening decaps your team will probably lose the 4v4. Etc. The best thing you can do is probably relog as an ele or something.
Other classes can at least maintain a neutral point for a while. Some can even force the opposing team to bring back two of theirs to fight you, thus swinging the favor more towards your team. The thief however, cannot of any of these.
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Somebody who tanks the rest of the match because they see the match is lost is ruining any enjoyment 9 other people have. That person is a selfish jerk, a kitten kitten.
I am honestly not sure why the “enjoyment 9 other people have” should even factor into the decision making process as to whether to AFK or not.
First of all, they’re (probably) anonymous people on the internet who aren’t even going to mourn your death.
Secondly, its about how YOU want to spend YOUR time. Not about how others want you to spend your time. Unless of course, you’re getting paid, then I retract this statement.
Or maybe you’re one of those people who also considers yourself a selfish jerk who ruins the lives of countless future generations when you use electricity?
Yeah, I like queueing for ranked pvp, but I prefer to /dance during matches instead of fighting. Sometimes my teammates get mad when I do this but it’s just how I want to spend my time.
As is your right, and that is what you should do.
Somebody who tanks the rest of the match because they see the match is lost is ruining any enjoyment 9 other people have. That person is a selfish jerk, a kitten kitten.
I am honestly not sure why the “enjoyment 9 other people have” should even factor into the decision making process as to whether to AFK or not.
First of all, they’re (probably) anonymous people on the internet who aren’t even going to mourn your death.
Secondly, its about how YOU want to spend YOUR time. Not about how others want you to spend your time. Unless of course, you’re getting paid, then I retract this statement.
Or maybe you’re one of those people who also considers yourself a selfish jerk who ruins the lives of countless future generations when you use electricity?
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I think this actually exists. One of the dev’s linked to the website when a player made a post lamenting a loss streak of 10-15+ games.
While it is nice to be able to see this on a third party site, the onus is on the devs to have this IN GAME like the leaderboards also should be.
Thief tennis lol.
Think of something more interesting!
Like Feedback over a Dagger Storm or something.
Getting matched against premades over and over starts to get frustrating. I don’t blame anyone who leaves a terrible matchup.
Sure hope anet fixes this kitten with leagues. But i’m not going to keep my hopes up at all.
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To be honest, Heartseeker should probably get evade frames.
And no, makes stealth access far too easy.
actually you’re right. That particular interaction slipped my mind for some reason.
Sword #3 is the only high-damaging skill of any sword weapon set, aka the only skill that will potentially kill you. If it was possible to avoid/mitigate the whole UA, Revs would simply not kill anything… You cant mitigate all dmg from an enemy. The only rational change (proposed on BWE2) would be to decrease the dmg of the first hits and increase the last one, so using one dodge at the end would mitigate way more than now
Right now its one of the worst examples of a “fire and forget” type skill in this game.
To be honest, Heartseeker should probably get evade frames.
Can’t be helped. Game is #BalancedByAnet.
And if we had character based MMR, how would they stop people from switching class mid-game? About 9ish months ago, people automatically lost if they switched classes and everyone moaned about not being able to switch if they had an unbalanced team comp.
You shouldnt be able to. In a game with depth there should be a night and day difference between your main class and classes that u rarely play.
Especially if you consider that team and soloq are merged. Its clear that arenanet doesnt care one bit about soloq ers and all their QoL issues like mid game class switching.
Did you read the second half of my post? They used to give you automatic loss if you switched character mid-game but changed it because everyone moaned about it. The reason why nothing gets done is because people moan about every single change.
Not hard to deal with. Be able to switch during the 1.5 min “prep time,” and you get automatic loss when you logout/change characters when the match proper starts.
There will always be A META. But the meta does take time to develop, tested and accecpted.
Now… While I doubt anet accomplish this at all, devs can delay the solidification of a specific meta indefinitely by the continuous modification and updating of existing content.
Skill balances and changes and mob balances and positioning changes all happening every day for example would be a huge damper in solidifying a meta.
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b-b-b-but think about the people whose wives go into labor when they queue for PvP!!!!!!!
The amount of people on these forums who don’t even have proper command of basic English is quite abhorrent.
" racist to high MMR people" lol.
I think the solution here is to get another wife.
Personally, I’d much rather see one of the following.
1. Mug and Improvisation made baseline.
2. Sleight of Hand and Boutiful Theft made baseline.
3. No Quarter and perhaps Hidden Killer? made baseline.
4. Shadows Rejuvination and Shadow’s Embrace made baseline.
Either one of the above options could make thief somewhat ok again.
Kind of sad thief is still kitten tier in terms of combat.
Ancient Seeds – Striking a stunned, dazed, knocked down, or launched foes summon roots to entangle them for 5s (immobilize + bleed).
Good luck dodging out of the pewpew now.
kitten infrastructure.
This has to do with the appearance of skills, not the actual durations of evasions and such. It simply makes sure that animations end on the screen when the effect actually ends, and by consequence, that the animations are lined up with the portion of the skill being represented.
I am not sure where in the dev’s post you got the impression it would only affect animations.
These are all valid criticisms for the most part about what is wrong with stealth.
2 mesmers being able to keep 10 players in a tower for a fairly long amount of time due to stealth BS is NOT skill, it is taking advantage of broken mechanics.
My question here is, why don’t you stop zerging the 2 mesmers with 10, leave 2 of your own players to fight the 2 mesmers and have the other 8 players go do something else?
The actual algorithm would take a proper academic whitepaper to explain in detail, so the following is a highly simplified look into how it works. In a nutshell, the compensator in GW2 tries to guess how long it took a player’s input to reach the server. Based on this information, it plays some tricks with time to make it look like the action happened immediately instead of many milliseconds ago, when the input was first sent. Imagine an action that takes 1 second, or 1000 milliseconds. If the compensator on the server guesses that you actually started that action 100 milliseconds ago, it fast-forwards the action and says “start the action at 100ms in and play for 900ms” instead of the usual “start at 0ms and play for 1000ms.”
Not to complain at your experiments, but wouldn’t this be a significant disadvantage for players at higher pings play PvP? For example a player uses dodge. Instead of a 1000ms dodge, he only gets a 800ms dodge. Or if Someone uses Mesmer distortion, they only get a 800 ms distortion instead of a 1000ms distortion…
I guess it could be advantageous on the offensive side of this however, with cast times of skills being cut, and in effect allowing players to attack slightly faster.
This was posted on reddit a few hours ago. I would assume many people in this forum would enjoy this sort of statistic tracker specifically for PvP. Its far better than what we have now anyway.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3lb8dp/api_tool_gw2pvp_tracker_your_gamestatistics_and/
I was rereading the Introducing PvP Leagues article that was posted on the 10’th of August, and came off with the distinct impression that PvP leagues are not actually going to be very different from the grind leaderboards that we all know and hate.
Specifically, this quote gave me that negative impression.
Divisions are broken up into a variable number of tiers, and each tier has several pips. To rise a tier, you must earn pips. Winning a match guarantees you a pip, and in some cases you won’t need to win—you’ll simply need to beat a required score threshold if you’re matched against a team outside your skill bracket.
Sound familiar? Yup. It sounds just like the old point system for the grind leaderboards You don’t even need to win a match to move forward. Just keep grinding, and eventually you’ll move ahead.
It will basically come down to how matchmaking will work in the new system. Will the new matchmaking system only match you against opponents in a very similar league position (tier/division) as yourself? In which case the new matchmaking and league system will actually have some merit.
Or, will the new matchmaking system match you up against a wide range of opponents as implied by “if you’re matched against a team outside your skill bracket,” assuming “skill brackets” are determined by league position in which case, its probably just going to be a crapshoot.
Or perhaps the worst situation would be if the matchmaking system doesn’t even take League position into account and simply matches you based on another system (such as our current MMR-system.) in which case there will be a disjoint between player skill and their position in the Leagues, and the League system will once again be a completely meaningless grind like our last “points-based leaderboard,” and the lower MMR you are , the faster you rise in the leagues.
Either way, I’m curious what the rest of the community thinks about this, and perhaps if someone with better insight could shed some light and clear some of my doubts it would be great.
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This is definitely a good change. It would probably benefit hugely from a temporary reduction of transfer costs to high/medium servers too.
Said this many times before.
Transferring to a server with a population lower than your own should be free.
Transferring to a server with a population higher than your own should be prohibitively expensive.
The goal is server balance. Who cares about “implosions” or whatever. Those will only be temporary.
Evan – this is a problem with a pretty well understood solution under Glicko – you rank players by their point estimate MMR, minus a multiple of their rating deviation (2 or 3 typically).
We actually do this during matchmaking to err on the side of inactivity dropping skill level. If we had a strict Glicko leaderboard now, I think this is an approach we would take.
One problem we really want to solve for a new ladder system is how easy players can understand their rating. With Glicko, we don’t really get that. This is one benefit of the point system we’ve been testing (Though it needs some in-game info).
I can link relevant papers if you are interested.
Sure, link all the papers.
Ease of understanding the leaderboard shouldn’t take priority over having a respectable leaderboard.
That said if you want to maintain a respectable leaderboard with the points system, you should drop any and all glicko-based matchmaking what so ever and make it a truely random arena. Only then would a points-based system somewhat hold weight.
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No Decay: We can’t decay MMR directly, which causes the problem of people sitting inactive at the top of the leaderboard.
Why not? Lack of tech or something?
I still don’t think using MMR directly is a good idea for a leaderboard, but I fully understand why people would want it: It is perceived as a better indicator of skill most of the time.
Here is why it doesn’t work well:
Random jumps: Glicko is used to make the best match possible. It does this by adjusting quickly which can result in very large jumps up and down before settling.
No Decay: We can’t decay MMR directly, which causes the problem of people sitting inactive at the top of the leaderboard.Our best bet is to create a system that lives side-by-side with the Glicko MMR. The original system does its thing and makes good matches while the new one can be a new algorithm, or a filtered glicko algorithm to give us more friendly numbers without negatively affecting matchmaking.
Thoughts?
Also in general.
Why not have two MMR-based systems then. A less volatile MMR/ELO/whatever system that doesn’t fluctuate as rapidly, and is visible to everyone and published on the leaderboard. Then along side that one, the GLICKO MMR (and the one used for matchmaking), which should also be published on the side, that shows perceived/potential MMR. Eventually if both systems are working properly, they should both come very close to each other in showing how each player performs in relation to other players.
Frankly though, any MMR system is better than what is in place now.
They are “aware” of issues.
Don’t expect anything to be done about those issues for at least a whole year though.
D/P, or more specifically 26006 or 60206 traits, are more fun to play as. 20066 is still really powerful. Just much more defensive/passive.
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Here I am still waiting on WTS Japan as well…
I’m more interested in WHEN these changes are coming.
I also find it hilarious that some people are also talking about buffing spirit weapons…
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