Cleric or Nomads for the lols
how much hp will gyros will have overall because unless bulwark gyro has over 40k hp i think it should have 30%-50% aoe damage maybe 30% condi damage reduction (talking from a WvW perspective) only on the damage that would directly affect it and not the actual players around it
this is the main component gyro the others have roles but this one’s the most vital so it cannot suck
other than that i truly loved the hammer skills and if the cooldowns are indeed under 30s like shown on stream im sure players wouldnt mind sacrificing damage for defensive skills and mobility
(edited by Rezzet.3614)
make them like turrets mk1 , make them uncritable and take 0-50-40% condi damage
10/10
the hammer 1 damage being low is acceptable as long the hammer skills keep short cooldowns like shown on the stream, it gives it aggressive playstyle by being able to defend while attacking
the only useful gyros are the elite and condi cleanse gyros probably bulwark, except they are all useless because they have a lifespan of 10-12 seconds and cooldowns of 30+ seconds and that is if you arent under AoE/Cleave attacks in wich case gyros will last 1-2 seconds
unlike other minions this pieces of junk dont even have traits giving them extra hp and toughness nor damage and im sure as hell they dont scale with engineer stats either.
drones wont be permanent because we will basically get a shadow refuge while moving drone and that alone could break any balancing if it was permanent
gyros fuel is just another way of saying they are timed skills like turrets, however this specialization opens up so many build options .
Definetly overpowered and a worthy replacement of Elixir Infused Bombs
this is why berserker has become a plague , if armor is useless then why should players simply not max out dps?
personally i like AI tactic play however as it stands i think Ais will be a bad idea simply because All of the elite specs so far where developped with high damage+ aoe potential as dps focus wich means flat out drones wont ever be alive in pvp/wvw combats and even if they did drones probably wont offer what hammer engi will need for survivability or offessive play such as Protection or vigor or cleanse upkeep or immobilize or stun or daze or cripple constantly , from what i hear they will basically replace turrets skill kit wise
an exclusive outfit definetly isnt gonna make up enough to make it worth buying the game twice i ve already dumped about 130$ in this game as it was
OP must be a bored troll no way you’re gonna make such a rant after getting a 60$ game for 10$ (40$ now from what i hear)
the skill is meant for short range like engineer’s pistol poison darts plus it also Pierces and berserk mode will garantee you ll have another flurry coming up almost as soon you finish casting it
just make it spew dark globs of death just like fire elemental used to spit like 40 fireballs+ lava fonts all over the area at a time at launch
the outfit is account bound and works on all characters of all races and genders , considering people used to dump 1k gems on soul bound items in the past this is a huge improvement and actually worth its price
well the only mistake would be the lowest survivavility thing, lowest base defense probable but lowest survivavility isnt even close on a thief that uses shadowsteps evades+ evade skills and blinds.
but yes you summarized thief properly
CURRENTLY engineer does not need weaponswap However when FOrge or whatever spec comes out engineer Will need weapon swap because from what i see forge= hammer+6 new floating bots ( of wich you ll be able to equip 3 at a time, 4 if there s a healing one and 6 if somehow theres an elite one) engineer will need weapon swap to have a ranged alternative .
So if you purposefully limit yourself to only new skills by filling up all your utility slots you deserve a weapon swap? That makes no sense. It’s essentially the same as saying Warrior should be able to swap between 3 weapons because if they take GS+Hammer they have no ranged option. Even if all the bots are useful, I seriously doubt it’ll be worth taking one for each Utility/Heal/Elite slot over even just 1 kit.
Taking Forge doesn’t force you to take the floating bots. If Forge got weapon swap, there’d be almost no reason to take the bots anyway because you could make a beastly build using Rifle+Pistol/Shield and the normal 2-3 kits.
not saying purposely limit ourselves but why give us new skills at all if we wont be able to use them successfully to begin with ?
Ranger is successful with greatsword because they already have pets for ccing and a 3000 effective range longbow on their same kit , their invulnerability also allows them to use skills while active unlike engi’s or elesso forge will just offer Hammer on a ranged class and useless Bots that will mostt likely be destroyable like turrets
so please Elaborate how exactly would engineer be game breaking by being able to have weapon swap
right now even without the new spec if we had weapon swap one of our weapons would be useless damagewise pistol= condi damage rifle= power so at most on a power build you’d use pistol and shield for its shields and on a condi build rifle for the blunderbuss bleeds the immobilize and the overcharge cc break
Because as I said, giving weapon swap would allow builds that have no real intention of running the bots to add yet another weapon to their kitten nal. You’d basically just be trading a trait line for the ability to use Hammer in addition to Rifle plus 2-4 kits. If we look at their reasoning for giving Revenant weapon swap, it is because it was literally impossible for Rev to get both ranged and melee into one build. For engineer and Forge, it won’t be impossible because you can always slot in a kit to fulfill whatever type of combat you’re lacking.
i dont see much of a diference then because engineers have kits but revenants have Legend stances wich effectively equals to 5 utilities per stance , needless to say stance skills are vastly superior than engineer kits as well
CURRENTLY engineer does not need weaponswap However when FOrge or whatever spec comes out engineer Will need weapon swap because from what i see forge= hammer+6 new floating bots ( of wich you ll be able to equip 3 at a time, 4 if there s a healing one and 6 if somehow theres an elite one) engineer will need weapon swap to have a ranged alternative .
So if you purposefully limit yourself to only new skills by filling up all your utility slots you deserve a weapon swap? That makes no sense. It’s essentially the same as saying Warrior should be able to swap between 3 weapons because if they take GS+Hammer they have no ranged option. Even if all the bots are useful, I seriously doubt it’ll be worth taking one for each Utility/Heal/Elite slot over even just 1 kit.
Taking Forge doesn’t force you to take the floating bots. If Forge got weapon swap, there’d be almost no reason to take the bots anyway because you could make a beastly build using Rifle+Pistol/Shield and the normal 2-3 kits.
not saying purposely limit ourselves but why give us new skills at all if we wont be able to use them successfully to begin with ?
Ranger is successful with greatsword because they already have pets for ccing and a 3000 effective range longbow on their same kit , their invulnerability also allows them to use skills while active unlike engi’s or eles
so forge will just offer Hammer on a ranged class and useless Bots that will mostt likely be destroyable like turrets
so please Elaborate how exactly would engineer be game breaking by being able to have weapon swap
right now even without the new spec if we had weapon swap one of our weapons would be useless damagewise pistol= condi damage rifle= power so at most on a power build you’d use pistol and shield for its shields and on a condi build rifle for the blunderbuss bleeds the immobilize and the overcharge cc break
condition damage is supposed to be SUSTAINED damage not Burst the fact that players can be downed in 0.4th of a second with some comboes show how broken condition damage is currently even as an engineer with 2 skills i can slap 6-8k damage per second worth of condition damage and that is on a non grenades build
And where that rule is written? Condition Damage isn’t supposed to be anything else than condition damage and Anet can make them do whatever they want.
that was the whole reason condition damage was designed to ignore defense modifiers
(edited by Rezzet.3614)
CURRENTLY engineer does not need weaponswap However when FOrge or whatever spec comes out engineer Will need weapon swap because from what i see forge= hammer+6 new floating bots ( of wich you ll be able to equip 3 at a time, 4 if there s a healing one and 6 if somehow theres an elite one) engineer will need weapon swap to have a ranged alternative .
(edited by Rezzet.3614)
condition damage is supposed to be SUSTAINED damage not Burst the fact that players can be downed in 0.4th of a second with some comboes show how broken condition damage is currently even as an engineer with 2 skills i can slap 6-8k damage per second worth of condition damage and that is on a non grenades build
if you got tons of karma to dump simply go to bloodtide where the crab guy heart npc is at buy tons of Fine light armor gloves mystic forge them and then salvage what you get and sell all the linen and cotton on the TP
problem with mmos and people losing interest is that they are such massive games in content yet they are so designed to be grindy both sub fee games and non sub fee ones
they get overwhelmingly repetitive and lack any relaxing or interesting side activities wich kills any sense of progression for the time invested and effort.
agreed it would make more sense having 300 base heal and 0.2 scaling on it as well as something like 25 per boon and 0.3 on its scaling
another thing that kills it is that all the skills are single target, wich made that #1 all the more needed to be good but as it stands it just sucks
for the #1 skill to be even effective it would need scalings like 0.5 base heal and 0.06-0.04 per boon on target thus encouraging active playstyle by making engineers to want to keep boons on their allies , this would make the kit viable and not as game breaking as you’d think as on average players have about 3-5 boons at a time
numbers
Healing points= 1000
0.5×1000= 500 base heal
0.04 or 0.06×1000= 40-60 heal per boon x11<-max # of boons = 440-660 extra heal
and that’s how easy the med kit can be saved without making it game breaking
by simply giving it decent base healing power and then making it worthwhile keeping many boons on at a time
seriously theres no way someone could ve programmed a kit with the sole purpose of healing to have 0.033 healing scaling on purpose on its primary skill specially when said skill only has One feature Heal health
it is obvious the coder made a mistake up and typed in 0.033 instead of 0.33
med kit’s #1 has by far the game’s weakest healing
the only close skill is thief’s self heal on attack passive wich has 0.05 and is offset by thief’s attack speed wich if you rounded it up would equal to 0.15-0.2 per second
elementalist’s passive has low heal as well 0.1 up to 0.2 per second if you’re good with your rotations as most attacks have 1/2s casting
you could argue that they are self heals but i could argue back that these self heals are procced on any attack whereas med kit offers no damage or cc skills
for those who did not get it something as measly as 0.2 is six times more effective than med kit’s current 0.033 , arent you forgetting the added effect wich heals per additional boon ? you might say , no the thing is for the said bonus to be remotely effective your targetted person must have a total of 10 boons at all times and even then it would bring your total healing to 0.066 0.033 base+ 0.0033 (per boon heal scaling )x10 (<-number of boons) even fully stacked this heal will be trash compared to stuff like ele’s staff auto wich has aoe, long range and damages
and for the skeptical 0.033 times 1000= 33 add 33 to the base 70 heal and now you can see how abysmal this numbers really are and why its a big deal
please fix this
(edited by Rezzet.3614)
orbital strike needs a 20% damage increase and/or be made so that each orbital strike landed had a 2s daze or knock
the reason orbital strike feels powerful is because of the double strike trait but without it its barely a threat and even Traited it is outdamaged by Rocket Turret’s Toolbelt skill
also i believe orbital strike was meant to replace mortar kit’s old number 5 skill so i think it should at Least Daze enemies as mortar lost the best crowd interrupt in the game pretty much (5 projectiles with each having 5 target aoe knock back and dealt 3k damage each)
well upon further testing it seems the only fix mortar needs is for its projectiles to apply finishers on impact
the fields themselves are great i admit, what i hate is tht the mortar kit is built upon spamming projectile finisher auto attack with said fields but most of those finisher effects only last 1-2 seconds except regen wich lasts 3 seconds i think so as far as finishers go the only useful projectile finisher is the condi cleanse and probably glue gunk confusion
what exactly justtifies the 28% damage nerf to begin with
as well as rifle not getting 1200 range baseline
welp i guess i ll dump my remaining gold in serker gear and find out .
(edited by Rezzet.3614)
it is a weapon Devoted to Combo FIelds
that right there brings a lot of issues specially when the auto attack got nerfed the reasons being:
Field Effects have extremely short duration wich basically makes most of the kit useless as the only worthwhile field effect is condi cleanse
Projectile combo finisher activates when it goes through players not on the projectile impact wich means ontop of your projectile being somewhat slow and predicable you have to aim beyond your actual target wich makes the projectile even harder to land than it is
the kit’s damage is just too low it is meant to be our Elite kit yet its damage is on par with rifle auto attack, and even the Orbital strike is outperformed by rifle turret, rocket turret,throw wrench , launch battering ram skills and thats excluding their effectiveness on SD builds .
if anything it needs a 50% AA damage buff simply because the projectile is so slow and hard to land they are skill shots i dont see why they have to be weaker than ranger’s longbow .
orbital strike should have a 1-2s Daze or 1s knock back per strike 2s if traited as its two strikes, this will make it a fair replacement to the old mortar’s #5 skill
as it stands the mortar is just a giant dissapointing reminder to engineers that grenades got nerfed and ironically grenades are still the superior kit choice
(edited by Rezzet.3614)
engineer seems to have gotten nothing but nerfs all around
rifled barrels was supposed to be base on rifle and pistol yet rifle doesnt have 1200 range , as pointed out rifle mods went to hell, the 10% attack speed is negligible and as far as i know only works on auto attack .
mortar is our >Elite< yet its usefulness is less than that of dual pistols on a non condi build
You guys can toss numbers and claims around all you want but you’re missing the mindset behind these builds.
A zerker build is all about being a glass cannon. You get in fast and do as much damage as you can as fast as you can in order to win. You want instant gratification and are literally throwing away all your defenses to get it.
Condi builds are, by nature, about wearing your opponent down until they can no longer fight. Many of you claim that condition damage is all that’s needed but, by your own admissions, that’s not true. They also need defensive stats because the point is to survive long enough for conditions to do what they are intended to.
Now I can’t specifically speak for other condi users but I can tell you how I think. I often wait for zerkers to make the first move because my first move is to counter theirs. Maybe I stun them in the middle of their gap closer, block all of their opening shots or I’ll use a counterattack. In any cause, my intent is to break their burst because, once I do that, they have next to nothing left while their skills are recharging. In that time, they are my prey.
Condis don’t just autoattack because there’s no way any condi will be lethal just from autos just like there’s no way a zerker can take anyone down with just autos. What you see is them bidding their time and waiting for that perfect moment. Some might be baiting your condition clears and stun breaks before they decide to strike. Others may simply be distracting you. Many times I have fought 1v2 and even 1v3 battles at the enemy base, knowing I will eventually die but giving my teammates time to capture points and objectives. Zerkers are easy prey for such a tactic because they are always looking for a fight.
If you truly want to beat condis, the first thing you have to do is get into their mindset. Save your burst for when it’s most favorable to you instead of opening with it. Select skills and traits that serve more than one use and be very selective about when you use them. (Guardians turning condis into boons is a very good example.) Learn what skills apply what conditions and learn how to dodge them. Know when to run from a fight. If they’re just guarding a point then let them have it and get the others instead. And, for the love of all that is holy, always have a condition clear and know WHEN to use it! A few stacks of bleed, even from a high condi build, won’t kill you right away. Wait for it to get high before using your cleanses.
If you want to directly counter condis, build bunker and bring lots of condi cleanses. With 3 you should easily be able to negate most of the damage from even happening and take them down with power attacks. I can do it in knights gear so I am sure many of you can do the same.
As for the current meta, spiking condi damage should never be a thing.
you just pointed out exactly why condition is broken they are meant to do Sustained damage and destroy enemies over time , however with the current implementation we are seeing even up to 20k damage per second .
also building bunker against condi builds is basically giving free wins to the enemy as condition damage was precisesely created to take down high survivability targets hence why it ignores armor and such .
I see alot of complains about it’s getting boring because world bosses become so much easier because of condition damage. Then how about world bosses to be able to periodically cleanse themselves, or converting them to some boons, to prolong the challenge that everyone love so much.
nah make it so bosses do a massive aoe that applies all condition stacks on everyone
Nothing justifies the nerf the weapon kit already had too many cons over pros to begin with
slow projectile, field effects last 1-3 seconds, pfojectile finisher only affects those it goes through and not those hit by the actual projectile, low damage, AA has smaller radius than other skills,out side of leaving fields for several seconds the other skills are useless.
orbital strike is weak without siege trait and even with siege trait it is weaker than rocket turret toolbetlt and possibly throw wrench and launch battering ram.
in just 2 seconds i apply 12 stacks of burning and thats not mentioning the extra 2 stacks i can add with trait every couple seconds thats easily 6k damage per second i also have bleeding on the side enough to deal 2500-2900 per second need i to say how high the numbers climb up with confusion torment and poison
you may cleane them bbut not all professions have reliable cleanses and the icing of the cake is all of this skills have cooldowns as low as 4 seconds with the highest being 12 seconds while 1 single cleanse will have a minimum of 15-20 seconds
Unlike direct damage, Condition Damage can be cleansed and transferred. Also, the Resistance boon could become more available in the future reducing the effectiveness of Conditions.
While we are discussing this, I think that no build should always be the top dps regardless of content.
Assassin’s and Zerker’s should come close in terms of DPS, but I don’t see why Rampager or Sinister shouldn’t be there competing in the same range of viability.I think Dire is really effective 1v1, but even there, if you can cleanse conditions, a Dire build deals almost no direct damage.
well this isnt a 1 v 1 game so if you go up against a team of nothing but dire pure condi builds with no condi builds on your team without serk you ll have a bad time
Condition damage shouldnt be able to compete with power when it comes to damage output. It’s ridiculous to think that it should be equal to power if that were the case then no one thats number crunching would run power.
After 2+ years of ZERKER or GTFO… Condition damage finally gets some love and you say it shouldn’t be competitive?! Seriously?
If it’s truely “ridiculous” to think condi should be equal or on par with power due to number crunching. Whats the point of condition, notice the last 2 years of zerker meta, look what number crunching did to condition builds during that time.
condition is meant to be sustained damage not Burst
condition only scales in damage with one stat one could argue and say 2 if you bring duration to the equation
condition ignores all forms of defense Protection,Invulnerability,Armor,aegis if condition landed before it got applied
and yes condition needed some love but currently its its a bit too much love conditions shouldnt do 10 000 damage per second
Not to mention since they got rid of “Deployable Turrets” we can’t ground target turrets anymore, which really hurts turret engis.
not to mention they got rid of rifled turret barrels and autotool installation as well
thus making turrets useless
whoever dev is fanboying with his bubble shield elite needs his pay reduced
It is a 100% projectile finisher…It isn’t meant to be doing damage.
See: ele staff earth auto-attack.
Use it for what it is meant for: stacking chills (ice), poison (poison), and removing condis (light). Also, poke damage from forever away.
If you want damage, use nades. They are super-duper strong now.
apparently it is not meant to be used at all then sure 100% projectile finisher but how useful is it if it only affects players it passes through and not those who get hit directly
this makes the AA useless with the field play as its a slow moving projectile as well as actually damaging from afar
Zerk takes 3 stats, Power, Precision and Ferocity to do damage, Condi takes only 1 and it ignores armor.
why do ppl that blindly scream for condi buffs ignore that part?
this
it is called being outplayed
it sounds like you got schooled by one engi build and want everyone else shafted as usual scrubs do
(edited by Rezzet.3614)
because stats were removed from traits and instead gear stat was increase so serker now has much more power over assasin.
also some toolbelt skills have higher power scaling like rocket, launch battering ram and wrench throw.
what happened to the buff pylon :C
All in all at this point everyone is just barking at each other arenanet wont change nor consider changing anything at least until the specialization changes hit so thats minimum time of about a 8 months at this rate
plus we dont know exactly what will be changed in everyone’s professions
and what class do you play.. i will give you a bullet list of how to kill a thief on it…
its not a matter of simply killing thieves its thiefs :
A) completely ignoring a game mechanic because of initiative (chill)
B)having no counterplay when they stealth aside from timing chanelled skills
B2)Ignoring another mechanic while stealthed being able to spam stealth burst auto attack and not be penalized (Block)
You will not kill a thief unless he makes the first move and in most cases screws up badly
You guys are so bad you don’t know what is OP and what isn’t.
Turret engi used to be op. The most cheese comp at the time was to run 5 engineers and wreck everything.When was the last time you saw a team winning with more than 1 thief?
What a sad little thread….
Turret engi was only OP against Condi only runners, i won against several 5 engi parties myself
the biggest L2P case in the game and anet listened to the brainded scrubs running glass builds now that is Sad
And here you are rooting for the same thing.
ok as a defending player what justifies I AM punished for using a block skill on a thief ?
why is it ok for a thief to spam auto and not only stay stealthed but loses no initiative nor his stealth burst auto skill go on cooldown , thus garanteeing a huge hit ?
this is a diferent thing altogether this has no counterplay
First off, you can interrupt withdraw. the chances of it succeeding are pretty low, but ive done it before. Withdraw is countered by poison and chill. It is not spam-able for it has a cool down. you should consider using focus on your mesmer, it eats thieves when mixed with GS 5… remember thieves have poor access to stability. immobilize stacking is the fault of arena net. not thieves…
Engineer’s don’t have a high burst spec because it was nerfed at launch…
We are not emotional at all. We all understand no matter what we do we are going to get nerfed. the reason is simple, Revolving door population. thieves excel at killing new player’s/bad player’s. we will always look like top dog’s but in reality your better of rolling something else. Metrics are a horrible way to balance a game when it’s revolving door.
Finally, how can you have problems killing thieves at this point. it is literately mind boggling. Stealth is good for losing target lock (not channeling) and that’s pretty much it. stealth rez/spiking is pointless and dangerous. it is much easyier to pop invulerability to spike, drop a banner to rez, or a signet.
i want to play one of this channeling skill warriors you fight where do buy the profession, seriously i ve noticed every argument thief players have made in this thread are towards warriors or one or chanelling skills not everyone plays a warrior or ranger, or scepter ele
You guys are so bad you don’t know what is OP and what isn’t.
Turret engi used to be op. The most cheese comp at the time was to run 5 engineers and wreck everything.When was the last time you saw a team winning with more than 1 thief?
What a sad little thread….
Turret engi was only OP against Condi only runners, i won against several 5 engi parties myself
the biggest L2P case in the game and anet listened to the brainded scrubs running glass builds now that is Sad