This makes me picture a philosophical raptor meme asking: if all the classes are OP, is that balance?
Took the liberty to make one. Here ya go.
This is amazing and made me laugh. Thanks for making that!
You win with points, and winning is what matters. So backcap away, noble pvper.
You can run a more standard 6/2/0/0/6. Anything from soldier’s to zerker gear works, but you’ll likely want more soldiers the bigger the group you plan to role with and fight against.
You’re complaining against playing against teams? In team queue?
Just so you know, there are zergs in WvW and mobs in PVE, too. It’s a jungle out there.
Kraag,
You’re talking about changing the entire game mode, which might not happen ever, and certainly not soon. This solution doesn’t need any changes. And while a server with better coverage is still going to win, it at least gives servers a better chance against others with super heavy off hour coverage. Right now, a server with better coverage is generally winning before the weekend is over. With Devon’s suggestion, a server just needs to hang on during EU and NA to compete with or even beat a server with massive overnight PVDing, which unfortunately defines some servers.
It doesn’t sound bad to me, just a different strategy if the poison is what they are really after. It certainly doesn’t sound ideal to me though, let alone cheese.
I feel like Devon’s suggestion from way back when could still address this by dividing match ups into 21 8 hour segments, with essentially 3 point resents per day. That way if someone dominates a certain time zone it gets them the win for that time, but doesn’t cement the entire match up for them.
This makes me picture a philosophical raptor meme asking: if all the classes are OP, is that balance?
Nothing changed with necros except the new runes people are using. It has a 90 second cooldown, and I assume you CC’d him and it procced the trait. So essentially this necro blew all his cooldowns to keep you CC’d like that.
Be careful about running into spectral wall as it doesn’t have a red outline to show it’s from an enemy, could also have been a problem here.
I’ve been wondering about this too. I started tpvp soloQ about a week ago and so far I’m 24-11. I’m sitting around 550 or so, which is cool, and I don’t expect to be higher since I’m so new. But I see people in they’ll 25 with like 80-80 records and whatnot, and that doesn’t make any sense to me. How did they ever get that high? What matters the most? It is very confusing.
Although its more in line with what I might expect from a zerker mes, I got hit for 5.5k the other day with warlock. Was a little surprised since I had only 2 or 3 condis on me.
If you run power you can draw them to a certain spot (every camp has one) and AOE them all down in 20 seconds or so. With conditions I find that having some more condition duration helps a lot with epidemic. If you want to you can pop plague and spam 1 to help clear it faster.
I love DS and miss it too much when I play other classes, so I am always on my necro despite having multiple 80s. I think proper DS use is half of what makes a necro player good and that the mechanic is only as weak as the spec/player except in weird PVE situations that shouldn’t exist or huge WvW zergs.
Ele:
Oh no! Eles are viable now! Please nerf back to bad, kthnx. Also I don’t even have an ele but I’m fairly sure that its impossible to take most of those traits you’re QQing about.
\there are 3 GM traits in his list. and all this GM traits from 1 line. lol
Yeah that’s what I meant. Not sure where he’s going with this. Personally I am playing a condi necro and I don’t feel OP whatsoever. I’m pretty happy with where the spec is at balance-wise. If it were quite a few months ago I could see it, but now? Not a big issue.
Necro:
1. Fear duration is pretty short, even when traited. If a necro manages a lot of fear it’s because you’re running into spectral wall or they corrupted your stability. Otherwise there are only 2 necro specific abilities that apply fear, for 2 seconds tops, if traited. They can get a 3 second fear on a 60 second cooldown for 40 trait points, too.
2. Death shroud starts at 0 for every match, and locks a player out of their utilities, heal and elite. It also has no condition removal. I take it to never played necro?
3. Dhuumfire was nerfed.
4. Corrupt boon was nerfed a year ago.
5. I don’t see necros running signet of spite anymore, and it’s very telegraphed.
I think you’re about 9 months too late with the condi necro QQ. MM necros are another story though.
Ele:
Oh no! Eles are viable now! Please nerf back to bad, kthnx. Also I don’t even have an ele but I’m fairly sure that its impossible to take most of those traits you’re QQing about.
I can get the engi and warrior complaints but I’m certain any issues with those classes are not centered around these specific things.
I think it should be 5 secs of invulnerability on weapon swap. This way warriors can stay in the fight and can open up build diversity in that they can use any heal now.
How has this been workin out for you? I was considering running this for small man WvW as well but I don’t want to get the runes without hearing that its working out.
I agree, I don’t like either of these maps very much. Spirit watch I especially find annoying because it always seems like one team is just trying to run orbs and mostly ignores the points, so it’s almost always a blow out. And skyhammer is stupid with how often that laser fires.
^ the game has regular hotjoin 5v5 servers or custom arenas. Anyone can go in there to get the idea of pvp before they to into solo que and make their team rely on them.
I play less than you and I’ve been done for a week. Plus you have another 5 weeks, at least?
Flesh wurm and spectral walk, and probably run spectral wall and plague if to plan on scouting exclusively, because those provide some teleports and the ability to stall for awhile. Flesh wurm has saved me from zergs from time to time, and with the proper set up you can get pretty close with SWalk and Flesh Wurm, then get out of there instantly
I would plan on getting chased down by thieves and warriors though. People know a necro is done if they can catch them in combat, so you might get chased off more than another roamer. Although, I’ve used that little fact to draw people away from a zerg and pick them off while I’m in a dueling spec and they are specced for zergs. Good times.
Having to rely on sigils to get a condi build to start being valiable is the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard.
Lets look at condi warriors shall we? They don’t need a sigil for bleeding, do they?
AND warriors get 6k more health for free too so don’t get me started on how “tanky” guardians are.
And you still have not provided any argument on how kittenty spirit weapons are to this day.
You think other condi classes don’t use those sigils? They do. It’s not ridiculous to suggest guardians could make up for their deficiencies with sigils and runes.
Anyway I don’t need to defend spirit weapons. On the contrary, you need to defend why every single other utility set besides spirit weapons are bad, because only then are guardians ignored and in such dire need of attention. Until then, guards are just like every other class.
#guardianexceptionalism
Why not?
Every class got some goodies this patch, BUT guardians who got nerfed instead. Im cool with the vigor and boon duration nerf as long as we were compensated somehow. But seeing how of our traits and utilities remain….less than optimal for more than a year now is disheartening.
Guardian has 2 great builds sure, but that’s not excuse for pigeonholing this class into 2 viable specs for so long.
How hard is it to change spirit weapons back to their former “glory” and maybe give sword auto bleed, vulnerability or cripple…anything as cover condi for a condi guardian…I mean we do have 3 GRANDMASTER traits around condi yet I can guarantee you no dev came about to testing those specs in actual sPVP before releasing them.
I don’t know of any classes that are really going crazy for the new traits. So the argument that “every other class got new traits” and “guardians were indirectly nerfed!” Are pretty invalid. The new traits are attempting to open new builds, just like they try to do for guardians. Seems like they didn’t succeed much with guards, the same as with other classes.
Also guards have some access to vulnerability as a cover condition, and you can get tons of the stuff from new sigils. Tons.
I never had a big issue with this in WvW but it is very frustrating in spvp. Your options are to run away and potentially lose the point, or stay and hope the mesmer doesn’t automatically win the fight. I just wish it didn’t take my stunbreaks and potentially ruin my elite skill because there is little counter play besides running away.
Too many simpletons reading this thread and either take everything literally or have no reading comprehension.
The guardian is very balanced and we all agree with that. HOWEVER, most of the traits are terrible and useless.
Condi guardians and spirit weapons are a joke and are useless in any kind of COMPETITIVE play, be that fractals or even WvW.
People here tend to think that if they are able to solo their personal quests in orr with spirit weapons, or even condi guardians, those skills are fine, which is far from the truth.
Unfortunately this is a game which is extremely easy to pick up and reach a certain power plateau, and because someone clears their personal storyline, they feel they are now experts in GW2 and are able to give perspectives on gamebalance. This is why this game will never be balanced and forums will be plagued with ….newbies who think they know best. Another example I have seen here is people running garbage builds in a zerg, wiping the other zerg out and thinking its due to them. Zerg WvW is an extremely bad example to judge the usefulness of a build because in 99% of the cases, Numbers > optimized builds.
Fact is, that guardian has been pigeonholed into 2 specific traitlines for ages now, and has not seen a breath of fresh air for a while. The only positive change ever made was the buff to meditations which happened over 6 months ago.
The guardian class needs variety, I can hop on to a warrior and play in so many different ways its not even funny. With the guardian its either AH, or 20/25/0/0/25 if i want to stay competitive What I mean is that sure, i can do some silly condi based spirit weapon nonsense, but its such a joke, that I would never bring such a build in a 50 fractal or sPVP.
This patch brought absolutely nothing to the table
You call everyone else simpletons, but every class has this problem, and someone so wise should be aware of this. Guards aren’t special in having a few builds that are the best builds, which is unavoidable given how the game is built.
All I can see from this thread is that guardian players are unhappy with having the same, ultra viable builds, and want different ones. Welcome to every class in guild wars 2. I think what all these simpletons allegedly not understanding the plight of the guardian main are implying, is that there are way bigger issues than creating even more viable guardian options. I’m sorry you’ve had to suffer with being great a certain way for so long, and you want to be great another way now.
People take that trait?
I tried a similar build recently except I used a carrion amulet and scepter instead of dagger mainhand. It seemed strong but I felt like I had too much to juggle around with the usual running for my life as a necro and trying to land DS1 for burning. I wasn’t running the teleports though, maybe they would be the secret to buying time to get off the skills. I’m beginning to lean towards running them nearly all the time, though.
I’m not sure about routes, but generally if I am scouting I look where I think makes sense for the enemy to hit, or just check out swords on the map.
At least as important as where to go is what to say. Always give numbers, even if its just a guess. Mention where they are, what they are doing (do they have siege up? What is the gate %?), what server and what guild if you can. If you can, whisper a commander if it seems you need help.
Some other things you can do when roaming/scouting are killing yaks, setting supply traps and manning siege as it can slow down or even deter a group looking for an easy cap.
Leaderboards are clearly the problem at the moment, and explains why many posts such as " too many noobs in pvp " are appearing.
There are way too many people that do not deserve the top100( and vice-versa experience players that do not deserve so low rating)… The whole thing creates disparities everywhere. Most matchs i had since patch were one-sided..
I just started playing in SoloQ (been WvW player since launch with some hotjoin experience) and I’ve noticed that most of my games are very one sided. I’ve played about 24 games, and it seems about 8 have been competitive.
AOE them since they aren’t great without their minions. Kite, because minion AI is still bad, and CC the necro, because they are still the biggest source of damage and likely have no way of dealing with it. Also dodge the golem charge.
Been eating this build up with my condimancer since I started tpvp a few days ago.
I’ve seen them breaking out of immob pretty easy, though.
They will still have the condition control that most necromancer a have, so that is true. But they are likely even more weak to CC than a normal necro, which is pretty weak to CC.
Most MMs I see take some of the weaker minions, probably just because they don’t realize how bad they are. If you see a shadow fiend, and/or the little scorpion one whose name escapes me, that necro is gimping themselves, and I see those all the time.
AOE, kiting, and CC are your friends. Focus the necro with your bigger hits. They really can’t run or anything if you get the upper hand. For classes without the AOE specifically I can see them being a problem, but otherwise, as a necro main whose never been MM, it’s a fotm build to me, with fotm players.
AOE them since they aren’t great without their minions. Kite, because minion AI is still bad, and CC the necro, because they are still the biggest source of damage and likely have no way of dealing with it. Also dodge the golem charge.
Been eating this build up with my condimancer since I started tpvp a few days ago.
Yes, let’s push people into the top servers even more. This is exactly what is needed. /sarcasm
You are right, there are fewer flies in my soup. I’ll just tip the waiter and stop complaining then.
When you’re eating in the foodcourt that is MMORPGs, there are flies in everyone’s soup, yet you still stopped in for a bowl. And you did pretty well with it.
This is the one thing that guardians struggle with along with almost every other class. Most if not all other classes have trait lines that are entirely lackluster. And again, those classes, except warrior, are all far worse off.
I get what you’re saying, but what I’m saying is that guardian players do not have it bad in the least.
You do know that presentation is not how good the profession is right? Guardians are not FotM rolls or something (most of them anyway). And which profession isn’t good in more than 1 btw?
Rangers are hardly present in any, elementalists are good in large scale WvW along with necros, engineers and thieves are good for pvp and I suppose small scale WvW but nothing with big zergs. Guardians are he only class to be relevant on every stage since launch. Every other class, even warriors now, have ridden the balance roller coaster due to balance changes.
If you want some big buffs, guards will become OP, then get slowly shaved down to a shadow of what they were. What I’m saying with that is be careful what you wish for.
Guardian was the most well-balanced class at launch.
That was over a year and a half ago.
The class is becoming more and more obsolete, with a single role in a game where universal class roles was so highly praised and hyped. No one is saying that it’s a bad class. It just needs added variety and flavor to make it more than just the ‘bunker support’ class.
They are still balanced now. Guards are ever present in WvW, PVE and still have a solid place in high level pvp. Some classes can’t say any of those things, or at least not more than one of them.
If you’re bored of them, that doesn’t mean they need to disrupt a balanced class for it. Roll something else for some spice.
If they change guardians, you will end up regretting it. If guards end up OP they will end up slowly nerfed to being far worse than they’ve been, and they’ve been nicely balanced since launch.
EotM and the queens sale karma train are totally suitable karma trains for an uplevel, since if you’re bringing an uplevel to WvW, you’re almost surely there just to zerg around. Not every time, but most times.
Imagine a mesmer having this with one of their new traits – they could have tons of quickness and distortion.
Pretty much what you need for a condition build is terror in curses, which your build has. After that you have a lot of room to play with what you want to do. I also consider vital persistance crucial in all builds, though.
I’ve been running 0/20/20/0/30 and it has worked, to can also go 30 into spite, and play around in blood, or whatever you find works for you. I want to try 30/20/0/20/0 but I’m afraid to drop VP and last gasp.
@Roe It will become pretty noticeable with all the bodies lying on the ground when a zerg hits. You’ll definitely be able to pick out the weaker uplevels particularly ones for whatever classes you play.
@Jayden Ennok I think you’re in the wrong thread…
@arKRazor Wazzzup Halfpint!!
@Aggrostemma Seems more like anet want’s to draw people away from WvW… New players probably won’t even come unless their 80. Those with decent WxP are less incentivized to bringing any uplevel alts due to the trait changes.
I’m saying uplevels were never a threat to any decent 80. A good, geared 80 is like a champion level mob to even a full party of uplevels. Having traits at level 25 isn’t going to make them into some fighting force.
I’m not really sure anyone is going to notice if an up level under 30 has traits or not. Pretty sure it doesn’t matter much.
I’m not complaining because “we” weren’t buffed enough. But because the situation makes me wonder if they are putting any effort. It’s been like this since the release.
I agree with Bhawb but this is a fair point.
In PVE and WVW Life Force won’t be missing anyway. So..
So because its possible to have, more is not beneficial? I disagree.
A 2% increase is a 20% increase when you get 10% per death. Now you go from 0 -96% with 8 nearby deaths instead of 0-100% with 10. If you have Vital Persistance, that’s an extra second in death shroud per death. It’s not mind blowing but it’s a substantial increase and miles better than protection of the horde.
pretty much everything is better than poth in a non MM-build. doesnt make this trait good tho.
on-death is simply an awful mechanic. and imo that stuff should either be optional or only a minor part of another trait, just like reanimator became a minor part of death nova.
but we have to deal with it now. took anet almost 2 years to get rid of the previous kitten and a lot of other crappy minors are still in the game for the same amount of time, so dont expect them to change anything about it anytime soon.
That on death mechanic is highly useful in PVE and WvW. If you mean spvp, yes, you’re right, but it’s a solid trait. I’d be much more likely to complain of other minor traits before this one.
Thanks for the response. Sort of a let down for a 6 point trait.
Has anyone had a chance to try this trait out? Does the life force gain stack with each condition/does it pull multiple conditions from multiple allies? I haven’t unlocked it yet but I’m so curious I wanted to post a question here.
A 2% increase is a 20% increase when you get 10% per death. Now you go from 0 -96% with 8 nearby deaths instead of 0-100% with 10. If you have Vital Persistance, that’s an extra second in death shroud per death. It’s not mind blowing but it’s a substantial increase and miles better than protection of the horde.
>>Then… Don’t cast shadow refuge right then and there?
No, do not run into the Caltrops field.
This is akin to running onto a mark or a lava font and suggesting it prevent any other type of attack if someone runs on to it.
It a bad idea. It not thought out.
How often is caltrops not casted directly on top of someone? The point of this whole suggestion is that a thief is playing pretty much scot free. Thieves can be very low risk and I don’t see how making the class require a little more thought is bad. Even if it doesn’t cause revealed, it could still pull them out of stealth. Same goes for mesmers or any other class using stealth.
The idea that by running into a caltrops field or into a choking gas field, one should reveal a thief is not thought out.
It a bad idea.
If I cast caltrops and then shadow refuge, why on earth should a person running into the field reveal me? It makes no sense.
>>You think its possitive when a Mark misses? “ow well it removes blind so its positive!” Really? Thats your argument?
You obviously do not comprehend. People do not generally look for Necro Marks and run into them because doing so will do the Necro more harm then it will do you. The Necro mark had nothing to do with making the Necro Blind. That was a totally separate incident.
Then… Don’t cast shadow refuge right then and there?