Lich Form is very hard but you can blind the Lich and run away or abuse LOS. You should never try to fight a Lich with any char. I mean the Lich is able to hit you for 4k+ with a single hit. That’s not an engi problem. All classes have trouble with that
My condi necro abuses lich form. A lot of classes have successful ways to deal with it too, add in some dodges and realistically going toe to toe with lich form isn’t that bad if you have your cooldowns up and know what to do.
I experienced this as a necro main after the 6/25 dhuumfire buff. Switched to power because I didn’t want to play cheese, which it was.
Difference here is that engis are not cheese. There are new builds that are coming up that people aren’t used to – that’s how I interpret it. I find it refreshing.
Thanks for reporting this! This looks like a scaling issue where the effect is scaling the character’s size but the skill itself is not scaling. A fix for this will require some design work so I can’t say a whole lot in regards to when it could be fixed.
While a respect this honest answer, I’m really concernd that we didn’t even get a "soon™ ".
I wish I could say soon™. But this is a pretty interesting issue to address.
Easy fix:
Just make that if you enter a pvp match, you automatically get transformed into a human character, so no issues anymore (for the time you are in this match). Like when you use a tonic or so.
And btw I want an option for myself to let everyone be shown in a pvp match as a human so I finally can see the animations of the Freaking asuras and norn mesmers stop destroying my view…How would this idea handle things like cultural armors? Won’t turning everyone into humans cause a loss of uniqueness in the game? Every player has specific facial adjustments, body types, heights, armor colors, and weapons; what happens to these?
I would rather have balance and fairness than look fabulous. Which I do look fabulous, but balance is more important.
You could have a human model in the mists and customize it there if you like. I think few players would have an issue if they knew why it was done. And those players are only going to be those benefitting from the asura (getting nerfed) or cared too much about looks to begin with and aren’t serious pvpers if they like looks over balance.
(edited by Roe.3679)
^ or reduce durations of damaging conditions on power weapons.
They’ll discuss some of the changes they plan to make at some point, then you can expect another month or 2 after that to see the actual patch.
Probably the worse thing Anet does is being so sparse with balance patches.
I think it’s pretty ludicrous to say someone with a 65% to 70% win ratio in solo queue that is not a good indication of skill as long as they have a significant amount of games played. Even with all the problematic matchmaking and 4v5 if you play enough games it does in fact mostly even out and to win at a high percentage is in fact a show of some kind of skill. Don’t be hatin.’
Would be awesome if this was even remotely true. Some kind of skill…sure. when you queue and continuing to queue through losses have bigger effects.
Probability will determine that over a large sample of games, you will benefit from as many good teams and 5v4s as you will be harmed by them. If someone has a very high win percentage they clearly are a benefit to have on their team.
There is no way the guys at the very topand remaining there with tons of games played are there due to luck.
I’m just speaking from experience. I’ve rode a rank of 16 or so all the way to 97% in a string of games. Didn’t play any differently. For me, personally, the wins and losses tend to come and go.
Which can definitely be a result of luck, or that those are the extremes of the range where you really belong. But speaking specifically of the players who don’t experience that type of change, they really are that good.
Maybe they also are great at calling incs and targets and getting people on the same page, who knows. But clearly having one of those types of players on your team is a big advantage.
What I’ve always wanted to see in a general sense is more culturally themed gear. North African or Arabic themed Elonian sets, Samurai styled armour and so on.
Great suggestion. +1
I think it’s pretty ludicrous to say someone with a 65% to 70% win ratio in solo queue that is not a good indication of skill as long as they have a significant amount of games played. Even with all the problematic matchmaking and 4v5 if you play enough games it does in fact mostly even out and to win at a high percentage is in fact a show of some kind of skill. Don’t be hatin.’
Would be awesome if this was even remotely true. Some kind of skill…sure. when you queue and continuing to queue through losses have bigger effects.
Probability will determine that over a large sample of games, you will benefit from as many good teams and 5v4s as you will be harmed by them. If someone has a very high win percentage they clearly are a benefit to have on their team.
There is no way the guys at the very topand remaining there with tons of games played are there due to luck.
Skimpy and male just ….do not sound right together. shudders
Would be cool to go shirtless, or at least hide the chest armour.
Historically many different armies and warriors fought hardly clothed if not entirely nude. They go more hand in hand than skimpy and female.
Anyway I think this is a little subjective in terms of a player’s main class. If you play medium or heavy, you probably want more skimpy options for variety. If you play light classes, you may want more less-skimpy options.
1. 6 is too many
2. Average person can expect to kill one. Good players maybe 2. Anything beyond that is just baddies losing to a good/great player.
There is. The first time you enter the Mists you’re sent to it. After you complete the tutorial, there is a scout that details all the features and NPCs in the Mists. It’s been in the game since beta.
Passing game roles like a bunker, etc are better done in a text post.
I mean something a little more involved than, “stand on points to win” and that 500 points is all you need. I mean real strategy so you don’t have to confirm that 2 people on a point is unnecessary or that someone will kill the treb on khylo, or whatever.
Or it could be for a player like me who joined the mists for the first time in August 2012 and didn’t play a tpvp match until last month.
I haven’t played the game for 6+ months, and I agree it’s difficult to get back into, at least for high level team queues. I just don’t think something like this deserves programming time. In the amount of time it takes them to write detailed ingame tutorials, the meta will have shifted and the subtleties of the game will have changed. That’s why it deserves a text post.
I’m not saying the information shouldn’t be readily available. I just don’t think this is the correct medium for it.
As far as basic information goes, any map specific objectives are listed ingame when you enter that map. Anything like “1 person per point to cap” can be reflected in the text in the tutorial. It doesn’t need to be any major feature, just a footnote in the patch notes.
Most people don’t read much, which is why I would suggest another medium. And I have no doubts that metas would change but there will always be some things like bunkers, decapping vs capturing, whatever.
Educating the players will improve the experience and when the experience improves Anet and the players get what they want. I would also doubt that they spend the time on it but frankly I see it as necessary.
One other thing I think that is worth bringing up: it’s really hard as a single player to keep another from killing a yak. You would need to severely control or burst them down to save a yak before it would die to any half decent level 80. Considering this was mesmer vs warrior, you weren’t going to have much luck intercepting him before be got to the yak, and from there it’s only 10-15 seconds before the yak is dead. Small window to operate there.
There is. The first time you enter the Mists you’re sent to it. After you complete the tutorial, there is a scout that details all the features and NPCs in the Mists. It’s been in the game since beta.
Passing game roles like a bunker, etc are better done in a text post.
I mean something a little more involved than, “stand on points to win” and that 500 points is all you need. I mean real strategy so you don’t have to confirm that 2 people on a point is unnecessary or that someone will kill the treb on khylo, or whatever.
Or it could be for a player like me who joined the mists for the first time in August 2012 and didn’t play a tpvp match until last month.
I think a pvp tutorial would be really great for some of the newer players getting into pvp. I would love to see something wih some sort of pvp guide with a fun personality that goes through some basic pvp facts and strategies, as well as the different kind of builds that are out there and what roles they fill.
For example: explain what a bunker is in general and what they do. Explain that trying to take a point from a bunker is generally a bad strategy, and why. Explain the map mechanics, maybe show a match played by willing top players and/or devs that show some strategy and things a new player should grasp.
After you got something together, keep it constantly available, and consider making some sort of training including that and maybe more required to participate in pvp. I don’t think a required pvp rank for tpvp is the best strategy, but educating the player base is a good bet. Hotjoin can give some bad impressions of pvp and this could help to alleviate some issues.
Improve WvW rewards and achievement points and forget seasons.
I don’t think there are set numbers like that for necros.
Some advice is going full soldier and adding in zerker stats as you find you don’t need the extra survivability. What I did was the opposite, and went full zerker, took my lumps, and learned how to play that way. It made me a better player after awhile.
Thanks for your response! Also, in your experience, did you find main hand axe or dagger to be more suitable for WvW?
If you have axe training, then it’s a toss up to me but I use the range of axe to my advantage in WvW, while I tend to get carried away with dagger and end up in a bad position, which gets you killed quickly. But dagger is very strong in small group/solo, axe is better in groups, if traited.
I don’t think there are set numbers like that for necros.
Some advice is going full soldier and adding in zerker stats as you find you don’t need the extra survivability. What I did was the opposite, and went full zerker, took my lumps, and learned how to play that way. It made me a better player after awhile.
A nice improvement to the worm would be being able to cast it 1200 away and instantly exchanging places with it. the worm explodes in a gas cloud poisoning and crippling whatever walks through it. that way maybe, you’d have a chance of escaping a zerg for once.
We’re specifically not supposed to have escapes, I’m not sure why people hear this and say “ya… but what if we just had a really quick movement ability that we could use to get away from a fight”. Flesh Wurm is only allowed to be as strong as it is now because it is weak without being pre-set.
See, this is what i never got. WHY is necro not allowed any escapes? considering how much the game has changed since the beginning for all classes, i think its about time necro got 1. I’m not asking for stupidly broken, run across the map in 5 seconds, warrior type speed. Just 1 escape for those “oh crap” moments when you see a large group of people running towards you, just to give you somewhat of a chance of surviving. And you can’t argue that necros survival is the reason it doesn’t have escapes, because once again….warrior. Warrior outsurvives necro by a longshot. Its not even close comparing the 2 in terms of survival. Even if it was at the cost of some kill power, i’d like 1 decent escape method.
Wurm is a viable escape if you preset it. Especially in WvW where I assume this is about because most warrs aren’t running GS in pvp.
And they’ve been very clear that they won’t give necro escapes – or more escapes I should say – along with active defense. What you need to ask for is heals in DS and/or improved life force generation so you can stay in a fight like you should be able to.
6th match afk now. Another one because of 2 OP Necro’s that cannot die because of OP pets, fear spamming, stun spamming and that OP necro shield that they have which tripples their hp.
When is something going to be done about this?
Something will be done when to L2P. Not trying to be rude but It’s a strong build against average or below average players.
If you AFK every time you see a MM necro you won’t learn to kill them.
(edited by Roe.3679)
I don’t know about that, I see almost a minimum of 1 warrior a game per team, up to 4. I’ve never seen that number of players with guardians. At least in NA.
I agree. I should have as many if not more cleanses than a condition class can apply so they are not a threat. We should add more immunities to conditions. While we’re at it, lets add immunities to direct damage, too. Tons of them! Fair is fair.
Actually lets not let anyone take any damage, that would be the most fun. I don’t ever want to die or be challenged.
Cool idea, but I wouldn’t feel drawn to being a soothsayer.
Love this idea.
Moa, boon strips and CC, blinds, reflections, just leaving and coming back 30 seconds later. You can just focus it down with damage too, a lich can hit hard but it really isn’t all that tough.
I feel like most counters are so situational. Even with all my blinds and blocks on guard, I got hit 1 time and was insta-downed. I feel like the best answer is thief stealing stab and cc’ing because every team has a trickery thief, but it needs to be done very quickly or you’re guaranteed to lose a player.
Ok, but that is situational too, to be downed by one hit. Plus that takes a lot of procs, although that doesn’t make it any more fun.
I just always pay attention to if the other team has necros and I save my skills that deal with lich for when they pop it. If the necro has minions or is swinging a scepter you know they aren’t likely to have lich, so if its a threat, be on the lookout.
Luckily for me I really counter lich form pretty hard. It’s pretty funny to me. After the lich is dealt with I tell my team to watch for a lich after 3 minutes on the game clock has passed from that moment.
Oh and lich has only 1 skill that can remove condis, and most never use it. So that is another strategy.
Moa, boon strips and CC, blinds, reflections, just leaving and coming back 30 seconds later. You can just focus it down with damage too, a lich can hit hard but it really isn’t all that tough.
Players experimenting a build for the first time should not be in matches with players who expect them to understand their build and know its effectiveness.
Sure, players can still join a ranked match. But why risk losing when you could join a practice lobby for a few minutes?
Or why not have hotjoin where anyone can still progress, and practice, and can come and go as they like? Those servers are almost constantly full. Seems like people like it.
Plus I’m not going to be relevant on an alt in a few minutes.
If you want to test builds, there should be practice lobbies setup with no rewards at the end of matches.
As it stands, there are absolutely no consequences in any pvp game mode for doing just about anything you want to, and that simply isn’t fair for those who put a lot of time into sPvP.
Then people would practice in ranked games because there are no rewards in the practice area.
I’ve played tons of ranked matches where players just leave. There’s no penalty for them and it ruins the fun for everyone.
Again, this topic is for hotjoin matches. If every issue was resolved by going to ranked matches, why would you even have hotjoin? There’s almost no difference right now between hotjoin and ranked.
Ranked matches certainly aren’t perfect but you’re more likely to have competent players who stick around than in hotjoin.
Hotjoin allows players to practice and run experimental builds without being punished for it. I want to improve playing my alts – where else should I do that? Tournament play is a bad choice because I am not only doing poorly for myself, but bringing down my teammates too. Then there are players who don’t feel confident enough to play in tpvp matches at all and still want to pvp.
Hotjoin as fewer negative consequences and allows for more immediate playtime.
A lot of these issues are addressed by playing ranked matches.
I feel this is the biggest issue with necro sustain because it doesn’t allow team support which is key at the high level pvp level that we reference. There were support staff eles and guardians in the winning teams of ToL, correct? That is tons of ally healing wasted on a necro if they are using DS at the time, which they very well could be especially if its a reactionary heal from said teammates.
The issue I see with this is that sometimes people like to switch characters based on team or enemy team comp. But it is a good idea.
My corruptionmancer does pretty well against bunkers, probably moreso than against most other types of set ups.
If necros got the sustain buffs they ask for then perhaps they could bring balance to the force. Errr, meta.
Instead of ALT-F4ing, you need to step up as a representative of the Necro class and argue your case reasonably with logical, objective discourse. At the very least, simply share your concerns based on your experience without any finger-pointing or claiming OTHER classes are OP.
A simple claim of “OP” from a few random members of a large-group forum are to be expected for literally every class in the game. The devs are going to see right through it. They want real information, real experience, real perspective. If I were to gather feedback from a crowd like that, the first people I’d ignore are the ones who throw the acronym “OP” around without any other input.
Which is what the devs do.
Even on the forums I’m starting to write off people as bad players unwilling to get better with some of the things they say regarding my class, playstyle, etc. “conditions are OP” is fun, at high level solo queue most people seem to do fine against my conditions, even though I would love to condibomb as hard as I allegedly can. “2nd health bar” is my favorite, as they don’t see DS as anything other than HP, rather than an opportunity to use CC or apply conditions.
I use staff dagger/focus mainly for spinal shivers and have chill of death traited. Since I cant escape leap or stealth, best I could do is slow them down. Casting time takes a bit so if my positioning is faulty, the outcome wouldn’t be good. I like using the dagger but uncertain if the staff is optimal for this build. For utilities Im currently using well of suffering, spectral wall and armor. Lich for utility.
Make sure you use focus 4 when close to your target, it gives big damage, life force, and vulnerability. If you use it farther away it won’t bounce unless its a group of targets.
If I could receive healing in deathshroud it would make me horrendously OP. A little more sustain on life for generation and easier access to stability would be better.
Healing in DS gives more sustain, and is heavily dependent on group support. Why is that a worse option than life force generation and stability? How would it make you OP?
I don’t run a power build, but I make heavy use of spectrals – usually armor – and soul marks so I usually have a small life force pool to worth with to start a match. You can always do the minion trick too. Otherwise I would try to head to the mid fight and use your big hits there to get some kills and life force. Zerker necros are dangerous but not really the best for 1v1 situations.
Wanted to say TY to Kilam, too. Advice got me on.
They should just make unholy sanctuary more accessible. Lower it in the trait line to the adept or master. DS is only super strong if traited for it, so non ds builds would still not get full benefit from the trait, but it also wouldn’t make ds damage builds op because players would need to sacrifice damage. Despite the sacrifice, I could definitely see a lot of players consider using it.
Makes sense as a suggestion. Personally I can’t see using the trait without vital persistence because otherwise you lose more than you gain by staying in DS, so really it’s 8 points for simple regen. Makes a better argument for healing in DS, though.
There was not nearly enough talk about llamas in this thread. Disappointed.
Seconded. Disappointed in that.
Decent post otherwise though.
I think we need to be able to receive our self-traited healing mechanics while in DS, but not ally heals, simply so our defensive mechanic doesn’t counter our defensive mechanics.
But being able to receive heals form everyone is a massive buff to survivability. To my knowledge no one else is able to receive healing while temporarily invulnerable (which is effectively what DS is as far as HP goes, a very temporary invuln).
Actually, everyone else is able to do so. The difference is that death shroud is up much more frequently than true invulnerability. Death Shroud is literally the only mechanic in the game that makes your HP unable to go up.
Just for discussion purposes that’s not entirely true, since unholy sanctuary does that exactly. Obviously not for much at all, but it does.
I think that – barring buffs to life force generation – this issue is the key to fixing necromancer complaints about sustain. It’s dumb to me that my own traits don’t heal me when using my only defensive tool and that my allies can’t support me in an inportant way when I’m defending myself.
You can’t kill a necro as an engi on the same skill level. I guess a medium skilled necro will kill 10 of 10 times a top 50 tpvp engi if the engi is going for conditions or hybrid. Only power engis have a chance against necros but still a hard matchup for the engi.
the only hard counter at the moment is necro to engi and thief to mesmer. No other matchup is so much dominated by the other class.
This seems to be a highly hyperbolic post to me. You’re talking specifically about condition necros vs condition engis and really overstating the hard counter nature of this situation. A decent necro will punish an engi who spams condis and boons, and I agree that condi necros do well against engis for sure, but you’re 10/10 kills statement is absurd. Plus, most necros I see run power or MM, which engis should do well against.
I failed miserably last year with a power build time after time. Switched to dire condi and got it done on my next try. Blood is power was pretty key for the constant damage and might boost.
power build: 6-2-0-0-6
terror build: 0-6-4-0-4
dhuumfire/terror: 6-4-0-0-4
These.
^ maybe if you added the ride the lightning rules in that it needs to hit something or suffer a higher cooldown, that could be appropriate. I wish that were on more skills in general, though.
we warriors have heavy armor and highest health pool, good health regeneration, good useful stances, nice condition cleansing etc while certain professions have easy access to applying poison condition.
thats true, but i’ve been playing a warrior bunker and i can tank any damage the enemy can throw at me, but then a class comes along that has poison on their auto attack and i just crumble,
surely poison should be a tactical skill, your enemy should decide to reduce your healing, it shouldn’t just be complementary while they mindlessly spam auto attacks.
i have so many skillful players attacking me and the one that kills me is the mindless auto attack spammer, its just wrong.
Funny, most non-warriors would say the same thing about actually using their healing skill. Ironic.
If there weren’t so many warriors, there would probably be less poison.
If you make it a blink they’ll have to increase the cooldown, and then we lose some valuable utility and damage.
I’d rather they upped the projectile speed a bit, it would be nice and not an OP change. But this isn’t a good idea to me.
If the projectile was faster I think it would be a really incredible skill.