Necros are strong in WvW, and good/ok in pvp. Not very good in pvp. Strengths are usually Tanky in small groups/solo pvp play (but probably not against organized teams), strong offense and not worrying about conditions. Cons would be a lack of mobility, escapes, and powerful damage mitigation like blocks or evades. Positioning is very key.
Right now group utility is very low compared to the good support classes, but post patch we might have some strong healing capability, but that remains to be seen.
Agent of entropy does not last indefinitely, nor does hobby dungeon explorer. You keep getting the achievement notifications, but you stop getting actual achievement points after 250 and 200 AP respectively.
Thank you for the response, and I didn’t know that. But, while an achievement hunter may choose to do that for the APs specifically, you would actually have to play WvW and contribute in some fashion to earn these APs – if it worked that way – so I’m not sure a cap is in order.
It’s not about doing the salvage achievement in wvw, its about making wvw achievements work like the salvage one.
I know that, but why should we have access to easy repeatable APs when the PvE:ers don’t?
Sure they have the dungeon and activity ones, but that requires them to do specific stuff. Everything that could be used for repeatable WvW achievements is something that would be done more or less automatically from just doing WvW.
While I certainly wouldn’t want the message of this thread to be that PVE players don’t deserve something, the opposite would be: Why do PVE players get new content every few weeks? And you can always tell who PVEs from their APs, as opposed to a WvW only player.
With Living Story like updates in mind, a PVE player gets consistent APs just by playing their preferred game mode, while WvW players don’t, outside of seasons. This could address that.
So as has been discussed in the past, the current WvW achievement points outside of the season are in many cases unattainable or very difficult to reach, especially depending on your playstyle (kudos to those who have got there). Surely there is a better way.
I think that better way is to make WvW APs more like the Agent of Entropy points. For those who don’t know, you receive 2 achievement points whenever you use a salvage kit on 200 items, and this repeats indefinitely as far as I know. Why can’t WvW APs be like this? Surely killing 200 players is worthy of 2 achievement points? Surely 50 camps is too, and 25 towers and 10 keeps?
(Disclaimer: the numbers can be argued, and aren’t the point of the thread. They could be lower or per more kills/captures; it isn’t that important)
This, in my opinion, would be a great system because:
1.) it allows WvW to generate achievement points indefinitely.
2.) since these stats have already been tracked, these achievement points could be rewarded retroactively, more properly awarding APs to WvW heavy players.
What does the community think?
OH I guess I just suck – you’ve all convinced me that Im the prob and necro is WONDERFUL. I guess when the next person kicks me or blasts me in wvw Ill just send them here. Ill spend another 500 g on another set of ascended armor and retool my build for the 40th time and see if I can achieve the awesomeness that you all describe. I must just be incredibly DUMB after 9 years playing pvp/wvw with advanced titles . I must not know wtf I’m doing or talking about. Sorry everyone. Ill just do a reset. Anet must have thought this out carefully, and obviously all of you have figured something else I didn’t.
Looks like someone needs a time out.
Some people may not get how to play a necro. You can’t play it like a class that has escapes, positioning is very key, and I see so many enemy necros who really don’t utilize death shroud like they should or could. If you’re doing so poorly then I would bet you have a poor spec or you’re trying to play like another class, which you can’t do. But I would suspect this is actually a L2P issue.
Necro is absolutely incredible in WvW. They ball outrageous. To even suggest otherwise is almost insulting to me as a Necro player, if I had the capacity to even really be insulted as a person.
Everything about them, really. In Zergs, you have: Wells, Lich Form, Plague Form, piercing LBs, Epidemic (organized groups might cleanse condis better, but let’s face it, you aren’t all playing organized GvG WvW exclusively), marks. Tools for days. In smaller-scale fights, you can excel as multiple different builds and absolutely destroy people with Condis or even with Power. In 1v1s, you’re intensely strong against most others as both builds as well.
Mobility is a possibility, but you have to actually sacrifice for it. If you aren’t willing to sacrifice for mobility, go play a different class. Necro just has different tools that are used differently, and I honestly think giving baked-in mobility to any weapons could be grossly OP. That’s just me though.
And to claim Condis are lackluster because people are building to counter them, you just have to actually learn how to use Condis now. Maybe the days of “apply all conditions, wait until target melts into a puddle” are gone, and you have to time/plan around cleanses. Find when a player typically cleanses and push them just below that threshold, keeping small pressure without blowing CDs until they DO cleanse. Then dive in.
In PvE, arguments can be made, but general MMO population PvE meta is something I take with a grain of salt. Conditions in general are broken in zerg-style PvE encounters, which isn’t Necro specific.
For sPvP, I don’t have enough experience, but I’d be really surprised if you couldn’t be extremely successful with a Necro.
EDIT – I had a Greatsword/Sword+Warhorn Warrior try to escape me on my Necro once. He failed, probably because he didn’t have Berserker’s Stance up at the time.
It’s incredible how effective chaining Cripple+Chill and using Dark Path is. The only class that can really escape me easily is Thief, but they can escape basically anyone really easily.
My guild won’t ever ask me to play my guardian over my necro in WvW.
If you think necro is bad in WvW, you’re doing something wrong.
Did you read his post???
You mean where he said Necros are incredible in WvW and then I agreed? Did you read his post? Or was it mine that you didn’t read?
More on point I can see where PVE necros have some legit complaints. But not in WvW.
Necro is absolutely incredible in WvW. They ball outrageous. To even suggest otherwise is almost insulting to me as a Necro player, if I had the capacity to even really be insulted as a person.
Everything about them, really. In Zergs, you have: Wells, Lich Form, Plague Form, piercing LBs, Epidemic (organized groups might cleanse condis better, but let’s face it, you aren’t all playing organized GvG WvW exclusively), marks. Tools for days. In smaller-scale fights, you can excel as multiple different builds and absolutely destroy people with Condis or even with Power. In 1v1s, you’re intensely strong against most others as both builds as well.
Mobility is a possibility, but you have to actually sacrifice for it. If you aren’t willing to sacrifice for mobility, go play a different class. Necro just has different tools that are used differently, and I honestly think giving baked-in mobility to any weapons could be grossly OP. That’s just me though.
And to claim Condis are lackluster because people are building to counter them, you just have to actually learn how to use Condis now. Maybe the days of “apply all conditions, wait until target melts into a puddle” are gone, and you have to time/plan around cleanses. Find when a player typically cleanses and push them just below that threshold, keeping small pressure without blowing CDs until they DO cleanse. Then dive in.
In PvE, arguments can be made, but general MMO population PvE meta is something I take with a grain of salt. Conditions in general are broken in zerg-style PvE encounters, which isn’t Necro specific.
For sPvP, I don’t have enough experience, but I’d be really surprised if you couldn’t be extremely successful with a Necro.
EDIT – I had a Greatsword/Sword+Warhorn Warrior try to escape me on my Necro once. He failed, probably because he didn’t have Berserker’s Stance up at the time.
It’s incredible how effective chaining Cripple+Chill and using Dark Path is. The only class that can really escape me easily is Thief, but they can escape basically anyone really easily.
My guild won’t ever ask me to play my guardian over my necro in WvW.
If you think necro is bad in WvW, you’re doing something wrong.
I agree with this. I think a big source of this issue is that there is way too much condition removal that affects all conditions. If control conditions and damaging conditions were removed with different skills, or at least differentiated more, it could address this issue and the condition issue at the same time.
Great video quality and you seem like a good player, but the people you’re killing are downright awful. Was that guard at the beginning using only staff? And some of these guys don’t even heal.
I’m guessing you guys have never had 20+ seconds of 12 stacks of confusion, or 30+ seconds of torment, or (I’m serious) 60+ seconds of bleed.
Conditions are all short I tell you!
If you have a single stack of bleed on you for 60 seconds, I think the problem is with you more than the conditions. Not trying to be snarky, just honest.
Conditions do need a change though.
In your case, the weaker server can just get picked on for points, karma, etc.
In my opinion, there needs to be a system that reduces rewards for picking on a server getting blown away and dramatically increases rewards for ganging up on the winning server.
For example, perhaps an outnumbered player doesn’t drop WXP, and taking their points awards 20% of the regular rewards, or something dramatic that discourages karma training their points, while attacking the lead server rewards 100% more rewards for players/points, or something like that.
I think bigger problems are the slow rate at which glicko scores change, free transfers, and a lack of rewards. I think leagues demonstrates that people will WvW if they got something for it, which from my experience in bronze last year, seemed to have helped those servers quite a bit with population.
A DS heavy build will be spammy very spammy, but the real point, IMO, is that the fact that your main damage is spamming it allows you to watch where you are and properly kite and whatnot.
I used to play a very aggressive dagger/DS focused necro and couldn’t get it. Then I learned to kite properly and it’s been an entirely different experience.
Engineers and necros do well against thieves. I win probably 80-90% of my fights against thieves on my zerker necro, and I’m not even good on my engi and can still win against them too. They both have so many AOEs.
I think it would be awesome if we could just choose a major stat and 2 minors. If someone wants to be a 100% healing tank and mostly useless, they should be allowed to. If someone wants a weird hybrid that works for them, it should happen. I think the game would be so much more interesting (and I already think its pretty interesting) if you could control that.
I remember the days of fortifying towers and keeps with upgrades and defensive siege in hopes that our night crew would have a chance of defending our things.
It has come a long ways since the days of T8. I’m happy to have been with HoD every step of the way. It does, however, sucks that people keep bullying HoD.
We are the number one tanking bandwagon squishy server with no skill who will be put in their place and then sent back to T8. Because that is literally the same song everyone is crying
Literally no one has said you’ll be back in T8. As a bandwagon type of server – which there is no denying, and is neither good nor bad – there is a risk of the same people who came on board leaving the server. It happens all the time. It may or may not happen to HoD. That’s the only thing even remotely close to your statement that anyone has said.
HoD clearly has superior coverage and will come away with a S2 win. As an FA resident, I’m happy about it. It means there is someone else to fight more in our level. I’m interested to see how they hold up since they are clearly destined for T2 in 2 months, and I can only imagine what a guild like VR from Mag would do to these numbers.
I do want to say though, I don’t think you’re seeing any FA “tears.” We were last place in T2 for some time and while the silver league views us as the evil empire, we’re just a big fish in a small pond and we know where we stand. So losing to HoD isn’t some huge gut check.
I’m more than content to fight for second place if it means I can keep fighting HoD. I’ve never made so much gold in WvW ever.
I really hope HoD is everything people say they are.
I actually hope they can pull off a win against us.
I doubt it, but here’s to hoping!!
Agreed. Very excited to face HoD and a resurgent YB. IOJ and SBI have put up a solid fight, but I want to see what HoD has to offer based on what I’ve read on these forums.
I’m not super knowledgeable about servers and whatnot, but I would assume improvements to the server and it’s capabilities could also mean improvements to things like lag, bleed caps and AOE caps.
Plus they know server pride is important.
This may just be a big net gain for WvW.
I think Necro elites are very strong, with maybe only Mesmer having better overall elites.
Not long before FA was pushed to silver league, I was on when one of the other servers was straight karma training in our BL, and we had about 10 people on, somewhat early on a weekend, like 8 am est.
Being outnumbered by 4 to 1 or more, we started draining their supply. The few of us on the map started using supply traps, upgrading objectives before they’d take them, hitting them with supply cows. They caught on and started taking camps, and we kept up the whole strategy, with a heroic upgrade on north camp right before it capped.
We still lost a lot of our BL but did manage to slow down and annoy the karma train by quite a bit, which was the idea. Most of those guys are there for the easy rewards, so if we make it take forever they might leave. They left before taking our upgraded northern points, which was a big win.
Here’s how it works:
Next week the servers that won this week will play each other, then all the 2nds and all the 3rds.
So FA, YB and HoD will play,
SBI, BP and NSP
IoJ, SoR, and CD.
Then the winningest servers continue to play each other, and the servers who continue to lose play each other. FA is in silver but should never play CD or SoR..
^ the players you’re complaining about don’t have their own servers. I get the impression you don’t fully grasp the issue you’re QQing about, and instead you’re mad that the world is in fact round.
Again your saying your awake time is more important than someone else’s.
I don’t think that’s really the complaint. I think the complaint is that 5 people’s awake time shouldn’t be worth as much as 100 people’s awake time or that 5 people’s time doing PvDoor against undefended targets shouldn’t be worth 60 people’s time prying towers and keeps from a similarly sized opposing force. No, it’s not you fault that the enemy has nobody on, but maybe it would be good for everyone to encourage SEA/Oceanic players to distribute so they fight each other instead of NPCs guarding doors.
The problem isn’t the amount of people, it’s the difference. You can have 200 WvWers and it won’t matter as much if the enemy has 250. You could have 5 and it doesn’t matter if they have 15. The problem is your server has no sea/OCX coverage, not that the other server does. You don’t see OCX/SEA players complaining about strong NA prime times.
How do you propose fixing this? You can just tell other people they can’t play because they don’t sleep when you do.
If you don’t have the mastery and someone around you does, then let them use it. It’s good for everyone around and the server you’re on, which you say you want to help. If you use siege with no mastery, it’s slower for everyone, even you.
Kudos for posting this Gryph.
I think it’s normal to be frustrated at your favorite class. You see what some other classes can do, and you want some of those things, too. It happens to everyone. Thieves complain they have no survivability, Guardians think they need buffs and Warriors think they aren’t OP. It’s normal.
If you asked my brother, who I’ve played with since launch, he’d tell you that I have considered re-rolling probably about a dozen times. I have 4 other 80s that I hardly ever play because I just miss what my Necro can do. I miss that I can do solid AOE and move from roaming to a big group with hardly any change. I miss death shroud. I miss the ranged damage and debuffing. It just suits me, as it probably suits you.
I know I want to check out an apothecary and/or settler’s spec for small group, 5-10 man WvW. It sounds like with the proper runes, sigils (new ones) spec and organization, you could deal useful damage and have massive support. I’m interested to see how that works out.
Would Unholy Sanc have any synergy with the new Unholy Martyr (5% DS pool for every condi consumed every 3 sec from 5 other toons)? That means every 3 sec you get 25% life force.
Seems to me you pop into DS, stay in for as long as your pool lasts, Consume conditions, back into DS. Just wondering.
Granted this means going deep into a non DS trait line but still…
Something like this (with the blank traits for the new ones)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQNAoYWjc00Zb3NO2whbCQ6x1/Cw0js3GAqCuD-zwBB4hCiUDRkIAILtIasVQFRjVnEThlIqOAwBA/+7v/+7vFC47YA-e
I don’t think we’re sure on how that trait works. Is it 5% per condition per ally? 5% flat while pulling from 5 allies? Or is it simply 5% life force for just one condition from one ally? I would hope that it pulls and adds up for everyone since DS has no way to deal with conditions, and could help necros with both support and sustain all at once.
While nothing is impossible, I’m having trouble thinking HoD is now a T2 caliber server considering their score against other T5 servers. I think they would have trouble beating SBI and IoJ.
All this will be affected PvE player infusion anyway, like YB last season.
I think this is true, for sure. I think every class should have some skill based access to stability, but I don’t think it’s cool that you can pop short codown skills or something simple and end up with party stability or long duration stability. There is generally too much of it.
Perhaps stability should be nerfed and CC duration should too.
I think with runes, sigils and some of these upcoming traits it could certainly be possible with the appropriate build. Burning could tick at 1000 per tick and be reapplied almost endlessly. A proper carrion build could give some direct damage too.
I certainly wouldn’t call it the meta but it seems like something that could work.
I don’t expect it to change a whole lot, really. I think if you’re dead set on dhuumfire that you have less reliance on crit, and depending on sigil changes that may be true even moreso. But I’m not sure we can say that for sure, yet.
Power builds won’t really have a lot change gear wise, but I know for myself with the reduction in crit damage that I will be exploring other gear sets, but that isn’t 100% because of the change, just partly.
I can’t say for sure but depending on the spec it does seem that an argument for a celestial hybridmancer might have gotten stronger. I do think a cleric or apothecary support build would be possible as well.
I would imagine its just a regular hit.
I think the healing power coefficient is important in figuring out if this trait needs to be changed or not.
Even before healing power, putting out ~700 healing/second (adjusting for life blast fire rate and stated base value of ~800) to potentially multiple allies is quite strong sustained healing. I think we will find it is a very powerful support trait.
I think that sounds good but the positioning is a factor as OP illustrates. It’s certainly possible to make happen but it’s not super easy to keep yourself in a line between 2 or more targets.
I do agree that healing in death shroud should be possible, but not like have our healing skill. But it’s stupid that we can cast well of blood and lose the healing because of death shroud, or our multiple sources of regen that is negated from death shroud, or the siphons or parasitic bond, or heals from any other player.
Give us that and we should have our sustain improved dramatically, but it won’t make us much stronger at all in 1v1s where death shroud is strongest.
OP you should stop crying as warrior tears are highly sought after right now.
I think the healing power coefficient is important in figuring out if this trait needs to be changed or not.
You know there are 3 servers in a match up right? One of those servers would still have to fight against the 2 remaining in silver.
can anyone point me out to the notes of the rest of the classes please?
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/210opr/ready_up_ep8_developer_livestream_notes/
Did they make any mention of how well Renewing Blast would scale with Healing Power? I would imagine that for a 30 point investment when stability is right there, it would have to be rather hefty scaling.
^ the thi about that thief trait is that 1.) they will need to spec 30 points and not take another GM for that and 2.) this will still benefit a GC thief more (whose damage was reduced outside of spvp), and 1500 health in an all out encounter for a thief is not that much of a change. Our spite trait will likely heal for much more.
God I can’t believe the amount of QQ across ALL professions here. I have been playing power Necro and loving it, but always was a bit bummed about the lack of options for a bunker build or support build. Now those options seem to be opening up along with improvements to sustain/attrition, and still all you see are these complaint threads. Whatever, you guys wallow in your tears all you want, I’m going to continue enjoying the hell out of my Necromancer!
I think what happens is people hear of changes and get their hopes ungodly high that their class will get massive buffs and change those little things that they would fix. Then the changes come and it isn’t exactly what they wanted and then QQ about it.
There was a post about how guardian changes weren’t that big. Yet guardians are very balanced and have interesting and powerful builds, and are integral to most or all aspects of the game. And even they came and complained. So it is to be expected; imagine a spoiled kid on Christmas who doesn’t get his massive wish list.
Sorry cant help you, going to be trying out new builds.
Wait…
I thought it was 30% damage nerf to crits? That isn’t all the dps though.
10% to crit DMG not 30
I know that it’s 10% to overall DPS, so since non-crits are unchanged yet part of that equation, I’m fairly certain you’re incorrect. I think maximum crit damage from a full zerker is nerfed by 30%, for a 10% overall DPS change.
I thought it was 30% damage nerf to crits? That isn’t all the dps though.
You can tell this guy is from Fort A***ole wood.
Why would I not be serious? crit damage trait line….makes perfect sense to have a new trait that benefits power builds.
I am quite aware of the fairness of having both a condi and a power trait in that line. What I’m saying is they added NO new power traits while adding 2 new condi traits.
Seems appropriate. Since I’m also from FA and a necro main, I guess being reasonable posters just comes with the territory.
I suppose you guys don’t remember when they added deathly perception? That didn’t exist at one point. They also moved axe training down, moved targeted wells to an easier position, and buffed axe tremendously. Also buffed life blast. Power necros aren’t in a bad place, and after all condi necros went through, I’m happy they aren’t touching power necros.
When they add new weapons, I’ll hope they address cleave. But other then that, Stop QQing.
I think you can now provide massive support with a 0/0/10/30/30. Or more appropriately a 0/0/2/6/6 with protection on wells, transfusion, well cooldowns and the new trait, plus the new SR 13 as well. Lots of heals there. Could put the last 2 curses for targeted wells for WvW, too. Lots of potential for a solid bunker, there. Still one that could be focused down, but more of a support bunker than we ever had before.
Last i checked necro needed the most help in pve and wasnt too bad in pvp. Really dont understand the direction the devs are going. Also all the new stuff seems to be encouraging boring afk heal support playstyles and nerfing dps. Its depressing.
Well people often complain that dps is king and you can die in mere seconds, so I’m not sure that propping up alternative styles is a bad thing. Plus, necros got a very active healing hybrid trait in the new SR 13.
I think path of corruption sounds pretty awesome, at least for a dueling type build. I’ll probably check that out a little bit for funsies.
Not sure what the spite GM really does at the moment, or how powerful the heals are. The death magic and blood magic ones are interesting. Not sure I will use them, but they are certainly interesting. SR one doesn’t impress me but I’m sure it has it’s uses, too.