Guild Wars 2

nope, rangers are getting a 4s reveal every 32-40s, adapt or go home

4 seconds every 32-40 seconds, you dont have access to evades? instead of crying, adapt… we’ve had to come up with builds for op thieves for a year – its your turn now for us, now you have toavoid something when fighting us and not jus continually steal from us and use one of the most op steals in the game while abusing our horrible pet ai mechanics.

get a sword and spam flanking strike, you do it when youre spamming the air to get your 2 boon steal skill anyway (abusing a mechanic, btw), get a bow and spam evades , it’s 4 seconds lulz.

Thieves cry so much , yet there’s a reason why you only see them roaming and at mostly at duel clubs. They succeed heavily in 1on1s. They were never great in group fights but lets be honest, neither are rangers, we provide virtually nothing that a guardian/ele doesnt alrdy provide. Atleast you can drop out backliners and SR people.

also, it’s one class, particularly and SPECIFICALLY a class that thieves used to gloat about owning in battles ‘rangers are too ez’ ‘if you die to a ranger it’s a l2p issue’ ‘ive never lost to a ranger’, etc

spare me the victim card, please

Straegen.2938:

Thief OP… there are at least 2-3 classes in WvW that are now far more dangerous in a solo fight than a thief. It used to be we ruled roamer fights, did OK in skirmish and were mostly useless in zergs. Now roaming is best done with condi bunker engis and speed warriors. Same can be said for skirmish.

Just look a duels, thieves rarely excel in them. Most skill groups in WvW don’t want any thieves in their mix because of their overly squishy nature.

Even perma stealth isn’t OP because to get it the thief essentially hits like a wet noodle. Annoying sure, but OP nope.

You haven’t met Triggerless or Kronos Xnm then, they kitten on all the warriors/engis (even engis running perplexity) that come to duels and they’re thieves. Jus sayin, may be a l2p issue.

you dont get much pet dmg going from 10 to 30 in BM though is my point, you can get further stat increases passively in other trait lines. the only rsn rangers go into BM is for passive sustain (healing power + dwayna usually) and the vigor effects of running birds or the condition dmg addition from bleed on crit to feline pets, after doing a plethora of testing, the direct dmg changes from 10 → 30 are almost irrelevant.

Why does he have to be specced into beastmastery to get it? You only have to go 10 in BM to get the reduction. I can go traps / spirits and still be able to get rid of my swiftness spirit (10 in skirmishing would give me swiftness on weapon swap for 8 seconds, more if im specced 30 into NM) and run Sicem as a utiity. You’ll see more NM Shout builds moreso than beastmaster builds running this. Keep in mind too, 10 in skirmishing allows 30% more dmg on pet crit.

Let’s see here then:

30% more dmg on pet crit + 40% more dmg and speed + reveal + regen and swiftness given to me without even going further than 10 in BM.

Edit: also keep in mind im able to put 25 might on my pet instantly when specced correctly, and youre not going BM at all to get that.

25 Might + 30% crit dmg + 40% dmg + Fury from horn.. Hope you don get caught in entangling roots + #5 stun from shortbow combo without an immediate condi clear / shadow step because youre probably getting close to 1-shotted by a jag/jungle stalker.

this matchup is great

KaiserCX.7103:

Ryan.8367:

haters gonna hate

Indeed they are!

Ryan.8367:

3 thieves in our guild would murder you 1on1

1. Triggerless
2. Beautykills
3. Incarnadyne

take your pick next time we face up

Interesting… those names mean nothing to me! Hmm think I’m now getting a handle on these forums, don’t post any actual intelligent comments, just simply act like a stupid jerk! Lets see if you have any suggestions I can go troll /sarcasm

youre the one that called my guild out, shrug

also youre able to flanking strike the air and get the boon steal option, when just about every other class in the game has to hit you to get their attack chains to move to the next skill, jus sayin

KaiserCX.7103:

Ryan.8367:

no, we’re getting reveal counter, quit crying

and gg

Ah now I remember why I stopped posting on these forums, can’t post something and expect an actual intelligent response. I must be in the LoL forums or something, I see why devs rarely post now.

P.S. SWaG guild is pitiful, my friends and I had fun slaughtering you guys while being out numbered a couple of months back.

3 thieves in our guild would murder you 1on1

1. Triggerless
2. Beautykills
3. Incarnadyne

take your pick next time we face up

haters gonna hate

This whole thread can be summarized with one video:

Fortus.6175:

I can only feel pity for them, not because of the recent changes to the class mechanics, but rather the concept at which they were first created. At first I used to hate them, then I started playing the class to learn it and realized that while OP, they are a victim of their own strenghts.

A class created to be evasive, hard to pin down, but that offered some good counter mechanics and trade offs that could be fun for the opponent to beat. They are actually suffering from a subset of skills (which sadly attracts very unskilled set of players for the stupidly low skill ceiling) and make them take the easy and unfun way out by abusing two mechanics that are pulling the thief down; Stealth and Backstab.

I have seen well played thieves that dont rely on neither of these mechanics to be effective or annoying. They use teleports, poison, calculated skills, skillful use of teleports, tactical stealths. This thieves are fun to play agaisnt, they have skills which are difficult and slightly frustrating to fight agaisnt, but beating them feel rewarding because you have to outplay them, they have to make decisions, you are constantly playing whack-a-mole but you can kind of expect where it will pop, with the twist that the mole can fight back.

The problem arises when the thief has D/D and can burst you for 8-10k hp without absolutely no counter. Aegis wont block the damage nor reveal them, blocks wont work either. Basically backstab is a guaranteed 10k burst that if you are an ele (12k hp) or a guardian (12k hp too) you will most likely die to it if you arent at full health, or the HS following the BS will kill you for sure. There is absolutely no counterplay to that, not even dodges can save you because you cant dodge what you cant see.

Thats what needs to go away, no class should have a 10k nuke without any counterplay. The other issue is permastealth and how “newbs” rely too much on it to survive. Every now and then you see these “new players with low skill” threads popping up everytime their “sacred” completely balanced and full of fun counterplay mechanics is touched. We had them first when revealed was applied. Was the class uesless? no. Then when the duratio was increase? were thieves useless? No, once again. Now the rangers pet apply them. Will it be useless? I bet no, because unlike most of the population, not everyone plays ranger, in fact I dont play ranger, and if I were to play ranger I wouldnt go for beastmaster.

Point is, for most people the problem of lowly skilled thieves who rely too much on the annoying stealth mechanic and OP uncounterable backstab the QQ will never stop.

Once we rework backstab to have a maximun %hp cap and have a long internal CD, and stealth to be a skill of tactical use rather than just spam it for everything, then we will have a more balanced class. The class should be about timed dodges, timed teleports, timed blinds, timed skills, timed poisons, not spam 1222161228112, heck most people dont even get past the first set of 2s.

Zacchary.6183:

Ryan.8367:

no, we’re getting reveal counter , quit crying

and gg

You still die to d/d conditions.

maybe, maybe not

viking

its not worth it, other than to troll thieves in duels , which i will be doing

thief with rifle? lul, might as well give it to ranger too while youre at it

no, we’re getting reveal counter, quit crying

and gg

no, we’re getting reveal counter , quit crying

and gg

http://i.imgur.com/eACzJ4e.gif

http://i.imgur.com/eACzJ4e.gif

Zacchary.6183:

Ryan.8367:

yea, because flanking striking the air to get a 2 boon steal skill isn’t bugged/op at all

please

Having -100% condition duration applied to you isn’t OP either.

what? do you think im a warrior abusing -condi removal? -condi/+condi duration foods need to be nerfed anyway.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Ryan.8367:

yea, because flanking striking the air to get a 2 boon steal skill isn’t bugged/op at all

please

Everything that Thieves does is OP, don’t you know that?

Even if we are to use a pair of tooth picks, Rangers and Warriors will still cry about it.

Well, abusing a mechanic that’s supposed to be a weapon chain is kind of op and s/d does it religiously , but that’s getting fixed and it will also only steal 1 boon so it doesn’t matter anyway but there are things rangers have that people cry about too, BM build (got nerfed) , spirits (got nerfed) , condition removal (lol) , and having to worry about a pet in general (lol), etc etc, and this will be no exception (it will work with mesmers/engi stealth as well). we’re as scrutinized as you guys actually, if not more in PvP than thieves. It’s usually in WvW that stealth gets complained about anyway.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The sad thing about this is, it will require a Ranger to waste a good Utility slot just to use Sic ’em. Kinda lame.

I wonder if the spirit Rangers will even bother with this….hmmm.

probably not

Doggie.3184:

Ryan.8367:

yea, because flanking striking the air to get a 2 boon steal skill isn’t bugged/op at all

please

Just throw tons of bleeds on him and use passive warrior healing signet and banner aoe heal and tank 9000 S/D Thieves at once with your immortality while they die easily to condition spam then and you’ll be fine.

im a ranger, not a warrior, i hate warriors as much as you do

yea, because flanking striking the air to get a 2 boon steal skill isn’t bugged/op at all

please

what mesmer is running healing power anyway? go zerker or go home

one issue with conditions toning down is that rangers suffer ultimately the most out of this than anybody else, our offensive edge suffers ALOT from this. sure, we’ll be able to live longer because other people wont have as much offensive power with conditions either but most other classes have options to go power builds moreso than the ranger, keep in mind we still need 30 in WS to get adequate (if any) condition removal even after they get toned down and even then that goes to our pet – while this exists we will always need to suffer 2 aspects

1) 30 into ws diminishes offensive power in direct damage returns dramatically
2) dmg offset to our pet with a shoddy ai that cant always be relied on in a 1on1/group matchup diminishes forms of our offensive power via direct damage (pets also always cant be on top of the player because aoes exist, and we know how much pets get destroyed by aoe damage)

so we will get hurt alot by this because anet simply wont give us any trait help to improve gaining a good power build option and hasn’t touched pet ai in 6-7 months

i am happy at the idea that conditions are being toned down though

Alright, cool, thanks

Hello thieves,

I was dueling a thief and he was flanking striking the air towards me and i was wondering something, if you flanking strike nothing/the air, do you still get the larcenous strike skill available or do you HAVE to hit us with it in order to get larcenous strike?

Thanks

i hear we’re getting it on pink moa

power build options, we have none that are viable, this way, since we already have to go 30 deep into WS to get condi removal as it is. we’re not sacrificing additional points that could be put into skirmishing or something like that (30/10/30/0/0 would be optimal or 30/0/30/10/0). instead we can get full dmg and if we want to go BM which is more of a bunker role anyway, you would lose additional direct dmg but have condition dmg upkeep like it is now but lose 30% of your dmg or whatever % based on how far you go into it to even out what your pet is gonna get.

could you do something like making dmg normal for ranger so we get full burst but if we go into BM it lowers our dmg 10% each 10 points we go into the tree? i guess that would open up burst condi builds mroe so than anything and end up becoming insanely op , but just a suggestion

Sounds good, I’ll be there

LostAntem.4897:

Fight Club at TC BL.

9 PM est today (9/4). south @ windmill.

beef with any specific player from this matchup? want to test your personal skills without worrying about zergs?

come join us and have fun

Sounds good, yea ill be there at the duel fight club

Gallrvaghn.4921:

Ryan.8367:

snip

Im so sorry for QQing. Please forgive me

Anyway, you’re argument about rangers having no choice in how to setup traits because other builds are crap also applies to most if not all other classes so it’s basically mother of kittens (for a lack of better word).

And yes balance patches tend to dictate the meta more rather than the community having the initiative in countering the dominant gameplay however one cannot argue that if it’s easier winning with faceroll classes and builds handed out to you in every balance patch on a shiny silver platter, why on earth would you try to go against the flow only to find out you’re only gimping yourself or your team because as you have stated, other builds are not viable? So the only option is to qq in forums to nerf the latest fotm and hope for the best in the next balance patch because L2P ain’t gonna cut it if you’re against a build that does not require L2P to be very effective with to begin with.

That’s actually bullkitten, the ranger is one of the only classes where if you take away spirits/spirit viability, it has virtually nothing else to provide to a team fight at ALL except sitting on a point by themselves with BM which got gutted as well months back – still somewhat viable but easily countered because that’s what the GW2 community likes is guaranteed 1on1 wins without any competitive play, they want ‘send a class here to take out that class’ and that’s the straight line of gameplay that’s obviously desired here in this game, so kitten it… Also, if these changes were to ever occur to spirit , it would have to be in PvP ONLY as spirits in WvW/PvE are complete kitten and nerfing them there would make them over the top COMPLETELY useless (affects only 5 targets, die from zergs, etc) , while this isn’t WvW i’ll steer away from that but just wanted to make that was clear. Give us more team actives with almost the same effects and take away the passives from spirits, will you still cry or not? Is it the meta or what the ranger has that’s the issue?

Alot of other classes have options because their traits allow for it (mesmers , I understand your limitations on condition removal as well speccing specific ways), rangers are stuck between 2 thresholds, both of which have been under nothing but constant attack by the community as a whole, spirit builds and bm builds. I think it’s time we realize Anet is at fault for this and not rangers themselves. Does anybody get mad because they now see tons of warriors and necros in PvP now since those changes? Seems like spirit ranger is the ONLY culprit here and one of the only ones that gets constant complaint threads regarding it. How much is the ranger going to get nerfed without seeing anything in power builds/hybrid build viability? If condition meta is overhauled, ranger will never be a class played in PvP at all let alone tPvP and will be overrun by warriors/burst engis/burst eles.

Rangers quite literally get everything we viably need in one trait line, Wilderness Survival. Shaman amulet w/ 30 in WS is just insane, and should it be looked at? Yes, but I don’t think ranger needs to be GUTTED for it. I think we need trait synergy elsewhere. We need more condition removal in another line so we don’t have to rely on going 30 in Wilderness Survival in EVERY BUILD to get it (which also forces most rangers to run something like shaman amulet for kitten to work for them). Rangers are literally FORCED to spec 30 automatically into that trait line, which is also the trait line that completely caters to this current kittened up meta, if we don’t , we have no condition removal to counter the said current kittened up meta.

It’s a vicious cycle for us and Anet needs to allow for better options in our trait lines and a look at either the condition meta in general and whether or not that gets an overhaul. If it does, we definitely need more power / hybrid options or ranger in a team environment and not just in kittening duels (5-10% of the entire community duels) and if it doesn’t like I said, we will be a class that will never get played , ever, anywhere, not just PvP.

Another major problem is that PvP changes dictate how the ranger plays in all aspects of the game when some classes only see changes in PvP only and that discrimination is kittened up. BM nerf unnecessary in WvW , and now is complete kitten there as it was never really that good in that environment anyway (it’s a strict 1on1/roam build nothing more). Trap builds do good there but somewhat not as effective in PvP, etc etc etc.

“Because passively applying a 33% damage reduction and passivity applying the most damaging condition (next to high confusion stacks) is a bit much, when you are already dodging and stacking bleeding and poison and reneging health.”

4second stun every 7 seconds , broken kitten healing signet (passive) , broken kitten zerker stance and this kitten is crying about us. – wait until conditions get overhauled and more attention is brought toward power build play, you’re going to kittening freak out at how many warriors will destroy in that meta as well.

Is it ranger’s faults that we have literally no power builds and our most important kitten is stacked into the same tree that also gives us condition dmg / toughness as the tree stat, while also being the very defensive tree that we need to actually survive in a battle and our only means (on the ENTIRE trait spectrum) for condition removal except removing poison and blind on dodge (10 second ICD btw) which isn’t even full condition removal it just transfers to our pet? I guess so

Do I , as a ranger, want more active condition removal? Yes , I don’t think people realize how god awful Empathic bond is (one of our only condition removals in the game) , it destroys our pet and anyone with any internal timing (any good player) and knows the ranger class can easily kill your pet with conditions + burst dmg.

Do , I as a ranger, want more active NON-TELEGRAPHED bullkitten that will allow me to do powerful play setups and be more surprising in battle? Yes, I hate passive kitten.

Do, I as a ranger, want bunker conditions to be toned down for us as a whole BUT with the option of handing us good power or power/condition hybrid viable builds that can be effectively utilized without having to sacrifice literally everything to get just a fraction of what other people can get in their power burst builds? Yes, I do.

Will any of this be given to us, yet we’ll still receive nerfs for spirit ranger? No.

Don’t you guys understand? It’s not our problem our class trait system is totally kitten to everything except a condition bunker spec, and even then there’s two very effective builds. Spirits and BM, which all can be destroyed by a good player. Two builds literally out of the entire trait spectrum and our most used trait line (Wilderness Survival) has literally everything we HAVE to have in a fight to even survive/be competitive.

To think too, entangling roots is confirmed broken as well, imagine when that gets fixed how much crying there will be from the masses.

Passives in the game will always be here, get the kitten over it. Besides, once bunker condition meta gets overhauled and it will, then rangers will become irrelevant, completely irrelevant since we have virtually no good team power builds because everybody knows power scales like kitten for a ranger. So we’ll be shafted yet again, nerfed to epic proportions with nothing in return to give us build options elsewhere.

You want ranger to change, you’re going to have to quite literally change the entire way our trait system is laid out because as of right now, it does nothing but glorify bunker condition builds. Once conditions become more irrelevant (which like I said above , will happen because everyone is crying about them way too much) it’ll do nothing but hurt the ranger. Just give it time, you’ll be able to faceroll rangers again very soon. Trust me on this one.

Until then, keep sucking your thumbs and holding anet developer’s hands and simply wait for it and quit being a kitten about it.

Good stuff Xsorus

Khayoss.2019:

lethlora.1320:

rang·er [reyn-jer] Show IPA
noun
1.
forest ranger.
2.
one of a body of armed guards who patrol a region.
3.
( initial capital letter ) a U.S. soldier in World War II specially trained for making surprise raids and attacks in small groups. Compare commando ( def 1 ) .
4.
a soldier specially trained in the techniques of guerrilla warfare, especially in jungle terrain.
5.
a person who ranges or roves.

range  [reynj]  Show IPA noun, adjective, verb, ranged, rang·ing.
verb (used with object)
25.
to draw up or arrange (persons or things) in rows or lines or in a specific position, company, or group: The sergeant ranged the troops in columns of six across.
26.
to place or arrange systematically; set in order; dispose: The members of the cast were ranged in their proper places on stage.
27.
to place in a particular class; classify: They ranged themselves with the liberals.
28.
to make straight, level, or even, as lines of type.
29.
to pass over or through (an area or region) in all directions, as in exploring or searching: They ranged the entire countryside.
30.
to pasture (cattle) on a range.

last I checked MMOs did not define what words mean, but they might if you’re an average video gamer, evidently.

Video games, especially of the fantasy variety, actually DO define what words mean. That’s the entire point of them. Guild Wars 2’s tagline is “Enter a living, breathing fantasy world.” To put that in terms you and others like you who like to throw dictionary definitions out there will understand:
fantasy or phantasy (?fænt?s?)

— n , pl -sies
1. a. imagination unrestricted by reality
b. ( as modifier ): a fantasy world
2. a creation of the imagination, esp a weird or bizarre one
3. psychol
a. a series of pleasing mental images, usually serving to fulfil a need not gratified in reality
b. the activity of forming such images
4. a whimsical or far-fetched notion
5. an illusion, hallucination, or phantom
[/b]6. a highly elaborate imaginative design or creation [/b]
7. music fantasia fancy another word for development
8. a. literature having a large fantasy content
b. a prose or dramatic composition of this type
9. ( modifier ) of or relating to a competition, often in a newspaper, in which a participant selects players for an imaginary ideal team, and points are awarded according to the actual performances of the chosen players: fantasy football

By labeling itself a FANTASY, Area Net has given itself license to make words mean whatever they choose to make them mean. We are playing a game based in a world of their creation, and anything they say trumps what our earthly dictionaries say while playing in their world.

So, in conclusion, what Faux says is correct. Rangers are the masters of ranged combat by definition granted by ANet within this environment.

As a side point, there’s nothing in the dictionary definitions of a Ranger that would suggest that they should have a stable of animals following their commands or be able to commune with or control spirits of nature. Yet, in GW2 they do. No one takes issue with that… Also, a “Necromancer” by dictionary definition is one who communes with the dead in order to make predictions about the future. As far as I know, that’s a skill not currently in the Necro’s arsenal… Fantasy – taking liberty with reality.

Lethlora

kittening

Destroyed

Pickles.2908:

Atherakhia.4086:

Pickles.2908:

Ranger pets get one skill, just like every other pet in game. Why is this such a problem for some people?

Because no other class in the game has pets as their defining class mechanic.

Therefor pets must be buffed? Your logic has run out.

ranger will always have a pet without traiting or equipping to get it, DEFINING CLASS REQUIREMENT FILLED. Ranger pets do not –need- more skills. You may want them, but you are one of few. Most rangers couldn’t care less since you already get some rad pet skills like aoe fear.

(ignoring this person and moving on in the conversation about ranger pets)
I would love to see some new pets with a different make up of stats and skill and skin, that would be fun.

or pet armor

Who said anything about pets needing more skills, or are you meaning the keymap functionality for their existing skills as ‘more skills’? If anything I’d like to them to fix our horribly broken F2 functionality on the pets themselves before I see keymapped skills for their other actions but even then, it’s a really good idea that provide alot more viability in the pet itself entirely, I don’t think anybody could argue that except maybe the ergonomics side of things which should be left to the player, maybe an option to have automated skills other than F2 but if we want to bind keys to those skills, we can – so they get the best of both worlds. He just wants to be able to bind their ALREADY EXISTING skills as a pet owner should be able to command to do so. That’s all, lol… People blow kitten way out of proportion without actually reading what the person even is asking for, it’s so hilarious how many people do this on these forums.

Also, necros have the choice to go Minion master, rangers don’t and I also don’t think necro pets have a row of abilities like our one pet does, you summon the pet and get to use it’s ability on the whim and then it recharges/dies. Comparing necro pets to ranger pets also is, comparing ‘apples and bacon’ as you put it.

Seems like you’re just a necro that doesn’t like rangers and obviously isn’t in favor of providing rangers with more uniqueness to the pet system, which is what something like this would do even if Anet has said countless time they won’t do it.

Why should he do any of this?

Crying is easier than thinking of counters, come on guys, this is the GW2 community after all.

Commisar.8695:

Mad stylin’ tanbin

Thanks : D

Magitech stuff and engi monocles

Chopps duel me

Miiro duel me

Continuation of above: My issue with it is that we get nerfed for this forced build running, BM got nerfed because we had to run a viable bunker tank build that allowed us to also do burst, BM was the answer, got nerfed with no compensation in other areas. Now spirit builds are under attack and will most likely get nerfed as well down the line because everybody and their mother complains about spirit builds right now as it fits in line with the current PvP meta which is condition loading. We will probably also see no power build compensation for it. You can’t simply just run a power build and ‘make it work’ with healing spring and condi signet against good players who utilize conditions, you need condition handling meaning Empathic Bond.

You mentioned fast CoF clearing, yes, against scripted mobs , ranger is pretty good, against good players in PvP , they’re lacking in terms of build diversity safe for the same condi bunker builds , which is my entire point of the post. Forced bunker build usage due to lack of condition removal options.

Durzlla lost to our condition warrior who was stacking bleeds/torment/fire damage too by the way, like 7 times. Not saying he’s bad, but it proves a major point as he was running power with healing spring and he had quite a bit of dmg output, but no survivability , if only he had some more condition removal he’d have a chance.

You want condition removal aka survive in this game, run bunker condi as a ranger, that’s our motto.

jcbroe.4329:

Paz Shadow.9715:

To add to all of this, the OP touched on a very important note. All things considered (where ranger has been in the past) we are in a pretty good state right now. There are a few builds out there that are nice, and it seems as if the devs are pushing the rangers in the right direction.

All that being said, there is one issue with the ranger that really sucks the fun out if it: its image. The ranger has one of (if not the) worst reputation in the game. Sadly I don’t think this is anything that will ever change, since this image of the ranger has been building up in the GW2 community for such a long time now. Anyone else agree with this?

Absolutely. At times, I tend to find that the ranger community does it to themselves though. If you were semi new to the game, and were looking to explore classes without having to make a new character and invest too much time to find out whether you like it (looking for endgame experiences to know what you’re working towards), then logically, you would jump onto the forums where people are discussing their class and how it deals with content.

Jump onto the ranger forums, and maybe 20% of the threads are positive and constructive (and that’s generous, because even if they start that way, it ends up turning into complaining, crying, negativity, and dev trashing 90% of the time), while the rest of the just ooze negativity that, when summed up, gives off the impression that the ranger is a bad class.

When the loudest advocates for rangers being in a bad place come mostly from the ranger community, it really tends to spill into the rest of the game, and give the rest of the community that perception, especially when most of the community won’t invest the time into the class and is willing to just take the ranger communities word for it.

Not every player is negative, but there are enough threads and enough people at it in every thread, that the positivity gets lost, and the perception therefore continues. Look, how Chopps posted a video of a world record speed run for rangers, something extremely positive (and awesome), and it gets lost to all the complaint threads.

It’s just… sad.

That’s most forums except mesmer, and even then they cry quite a bit , mostly about condition handling.

My point is quite a valid one, you need, in the current state of the sPvP/tPvP meta , condition removal. The ranger, NEEDS 30 in WS to counter this popular meta, no ifs ands or buts about it. Rune stacking and condition removal sigils and healing spring and the condi signet simply do NOT cut it.. You can’t argue that. The issue with this, like I said, is that it dilutes any chance of a viable power build. That’s my issue in my post, I don’t get how stating obvious facts about a trait line is kittening, whining , complaining. I enjoy bunker builds, but the fact that this is all the ranger has (because most of our most important traits and most importantly condition removal) in terms of viable builds in both duel scenarios and team play derives from the WS tree shows you something. We are forced to use this tree to counter current meta in sPvP/tPvP. Hotjoins excluded, people who play in that are just straight garbage, im talking top tier teamplay / top tier dueling, you know, people who are good with their class.

Ask any ranger on these forums in a competitive tPvP team and/or is competitive in dueling GOOD players and in WvW even, everything ran in those build setups has 30 WS in it, and they’re running Empathic Bond, it’s probably THE most used trait by the ranger outside of PvE, which is fine because it’s a very good trait, but it ruins chances at a good burst build/power build because you simply can’t last, and it also does nothing but promote bunker BM / bunker spirit builds, the very viable builds complained about by every other class (hint hint). Direct dmg + tank doesn’t beat condi embedding + tank because our most important tree WS goes completely with the current meta/bunker setup but it’s also what we’re forced to run to counter those very builds run by other players. We don’t get options for any condition removal anywhere else in the tree if we ever wanted to, what I was proposing was simply adding some other options that benefits a power build in this regard.

The biggest issue: Coefficients (which is understandable, because of the pet/ranger split), Traited Condition handling with a good power build.

If you don’t run Empathic Bond, you’re running healing spring (you need high healing for the initial heal to be effective and the leaps to even matter, which means you’re not running any crit based power gear, automatic dilution of a power build) and you’re running condi signet, which is actually pretty good utility to run.

Durzlla.6295:

Am I the only ranger on this entire kittening forum who doesn’t run 30 in WS and still doesn’t have condi issues?

That being said, rangers don’t need any help in PvP, we are fine really, I haven’t met a prof I couldn’t take out, some players make it more difficult than others granted but it’s hardly a balance issue.

You just don’t play against good players who use conditions effectively, it’s ok , tell me your character name ingame and I have about 10 people who I duel regularly who you can try against without 30 in WS in 1on1 situation and I bet you , you will lose every one of them.

Wow, you are very delusional… You said minion masters , sorry, is that supposed to mean something other than necromancers? And you said warriors had one build (maybe have) as if they might have ONE viable build now. Just quit spreading misinformation and then trying to backtrack and make excuses when you get completely called out for it. You and Chopps are hardly PvPers anyway so this isn’t a surprise that you don’t know other class’s builds and their makeups. I’m done with you.

And also, I know quite a bit of eles who run zerker d/d and do good with it, because they’re good at their class and know other classes and know when to time kitten accordingly with the utility they have, so yea. Keep NOT knowing other classes and continue to spout off bullkitten like you always do in every thread.

Durzlla.6295:

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

Prysin.8542:

oh shut it people. the “DPS” loss is just laughable. And the “LB nerf” is even more laughable.

We got a buff in the right direction. Blast finisher, Stealth, the ability to ON YOUR OWN, have 18 stacks of vulnerability on a target at any given moment. The fact that your pet does 2% less “DPS” compared to before is laughable, considering that the potential DPS on the longbow is now 12% more.

Oh and one last thing… remember that blast finisher? You now got, even in zerker gear, 10 times the group utility you had before. With a sword and a warhorn, you get 2 times the healing you had before. And if you bother to build properly, you can provide a team, or your pet, with more might then you EVER could before.

Might = more DPS.

in the end. you lost NOTHING. you just gained TWICE as much. and you still whine.

Seriously, you should all be ashamed.

Except what you just said means we only have one viable build for damage. That isn’t really versatile now is it?

You mean like minion masters only have one way to deal damage through their minions? Or how eles only have like one build option for damage period? Or how warriors only had (maybe have) one viable damage build?

And we have PLENTY of build variety, we have condi builds, we have pet builds (both tanky and DPS) we’ve for power builds, support builds etc. quit your kittening and stop following cookie cutters, there’s more builds that work than the ones people share.

1. NEcros have plenty of builds that are very viable both in and out of groups and very powerful in PvP , PvE is a different story for them

2. Eles have a still powerful d/d build, s/d burst builds that are insane

3. Warriors have an insane cc stun build (had for a while now), a good in and out high dmg longbow/gs spec for group play, and now have a great condi build in longbow and sword/sword

Do you even know what you’re talking about? Quit spreading misinformation.

Ryan.9387:

Rangers don’t need any pvp buffs at the moment. The class is already at the point where a well played ranger can beat any other class 1v1. The amount of fear the enemy has is irrelevant if the ending is the same.

In fact, I like when enemies charge up to me for the easy kill, because that means I don’t have to chase them down.

True, but only because condi spamming is the meta at the moment. The problem isn’t necessarily whether a well-played ranger can do it or not. You have to go 30 in WS to even be competitive in this meta (and good luck trying to fight against a good/well-played condi longbow s/s warrior in 1on1 now with the bleed and torment stacking without running full BM / WS , which is a complete destruction of any power build), good bye power builds immediately with that trait sacrificing just to get adequate condi removal.

We’re forced into such trolly specs it’s ridiculous and then we get criticized and nerfed for it into oblivion from whiners. I just want to get some other condition removal in other areas of our traits so we can atleast go power/condi mix or straight power burst and be viable and not get melted by people because if you don’t go WS you have to bring a crap heal that is easily countered by any necro, longbow warrior or engi as well or mesmer (they all have aoe drops that make sitting on a healing spring completely useless) and bear pet, in competitive pvp games? really? The CC from canines, the drake aoes are much more viable and beneficial to a group.

The troll specs we have work well, but once the whiners in PvP get other classes other than our class torment and also make conditions more obsolete to counter the condi spam then it will hit our class the hardest because we can’t do anything going into power without putting 30 into a Toughness/Condition tree. Just the way it is for rangers at the moment and everybody is complaining about condi spam right now in PvP, it will get nerfed and also if burning gets nerfed which is being talked about the heaviest, we of course will get hit the hardest with that.

Ranger progression in PvP eyes:

1. Anet forces every rangers to be viable and competitive by going spirits / bm which are based completely around sustain / toughness / survivability while dealing insane condi dmg and burst from pets

2. Everybody in the community kittenes at the RANGER for this

3. Rangers get nerfed in those viable builds (except spirit, which everybody is complaining about right now so it’s probably next on the list)

4. We don’t get kitten to compensate not going into a toughness/condition tree that offers our only viable condi removal in other trait areas.

But as soon as they make conditions less op , like I said, we will get kittened as a competitive class in PvP since ranger is probably the biggest class being completely forced into a role of abusing the current condi meta while also being completely dependant upon the GM trait WS brings to have viable condition removal besides necros (but necros have options elsewhere and have gotten insane buffs unlike the ranger).

Playing against a good condition longbow s/s warrior with the torment / bleed stacking , great condition removal in hoelbrak/melandru and 2k toughness and now with much better condition removal in the class itself you’ll find yourself having a VERY hard time no matter what ranger build you throw at it. It actually is quite powerful and pretty anti-ranger with the reflection , aoe fields (fire dmg) and multiple torment and bleed stacking and the immoblization as well (pin down, etc) . It hasn’t surfaced yet much but it will once more and more warriors catch on. It’s easily the toughest warrior build I’ve ever faced and a warrior in our guild is very kitten good with it and kills most people you throw at it save for some very sneaky phant mesmers who usually end the duel with 10% hp themselves if not less. This is sPvP not wvw , not sure how it even pans in WvW.

Also keep in mind, with the aoes, and condi transfer of bleeds / burns and now torment which your pet will automatically take 150% dmg of because you can’t stop a pet ever even if you wanted to, it mutilates pets , it’s kind of crazy how fast they die even in full BM.