Guild Wars 2

Seveleniumus.5973:

Hammer :

has no mobility
does a lot less dps than gs
skill casting takes forever, making it almost useless in 1 vs 1 situations

yea, truly broken beyond belief.

Actually hammer is pretty kitten good in 1on1, not op, but it’s prettttty kitten good when used right. Hammer/longbow is a kitten sick combo to 1on1 with.

Gotta think about the condi spread though … This would add one more condition to the line to get cleared as opposed to 3 being added to the bleed stack. It’s not just about dmg but manipulating your enemy’s condi clear. That’s what I would use it for atleast, but yea, i can see it definitely being weaker than geo in an offensive/dmg side of things. Also keep in mind its a on crit so you could actually pair it with geomancy anyway.

This guy clearly hasn’t fought a good GC thief with survivability much higher than a ranger with full tank
This guy clearly hasn’t encountered the condi mesmer meta builds that’s been plaguing Gw2 as of late
This guy clearly hasn’t encountered a hammer/longbow warrior

Or he would have never made this post

Great, as if this game needed more condition spam

SpecterMAT.7306:

We have to endure:
-stealth bullkitten
-protection bullkitten on random professions (ranger wtf.)
-3000 minion necro / rangers
-teleporting thieves and mesmers
-434843 clones per second mesmers

and other so many kitten thing in this game.
Why hate on us. WHY!
Cuz we can knockback somebody ? Look at that guardian knockback. I fly for 2kms.
Cuz we can stun somebody lulz?
Look at BASILISK VENOM, ENGI TURRETS, STATIC FIELD and other bullkitten.

We have to deal with like 4x more bullkitten by other professions in pvp/wvw.
And look at all we can do and compare it with other professions.

Nothing wrong with Warrior. Finally got sustain. Nobody’s life got ruined.

From the things you listed, your post can’t really be taken that seriously. Keep in mind you also have the option to build condi bunker which bypasses protection.

The warriors I know and the seasoned warriors that reside in duel clubs don’t have an issue with stealthy thieves, do you? I think that’s a learn to play issue honestly. I’m talking players like Vassangel and Xadus who outplay thieves regularly. They know the thief class and duel alot of thieves , they anticipate what the thief is going to do. Sorry, this is a veryyyy big learn to play issue.

Minion necros aren’t that great, you kill their blood fiend and it’s kind of GG. Yet again, another learn to play issue.

Spirit rangers? Kill sun spirit , gg. Keep in mind spirits can also be cc’d now, use that as an advantage, when you see them cast, cc them – hammer is great for this. Again, another learn to play issue.

Mesmers are broken in ways, good luck with that

Truth comes down it, you are one of the few classes that actually, with good knowledge of the other class can very easily dismantle them with options of builds and utility. I think you just need to play the other classes and learn them really.

I mean, I think warrior is fine too , just other classes need to buffed as well. But, your post is just filled with so much non-knowledge of classes I had to respond.

nicknamenick.2437:

No,

Because i had a endless 1vs1 battle against guardians :-)
Guardians also can heal very well (its there thing) but the damage is very high also.

Mesmers are still masters in 1vs1
Necro’s can still wipe a group easy
Guardians are still better bunkers
So yes warriors are good also, but i really don’t see why we need a nerf.
Why cant warriors be in the top classes?
Maby buff the rangers more and Ele’s… start with that and see what happens.

They tried buffing rangers, end result: crying on the forums led to nerf of BM and Spirits. yawn. Honestly, if rangers do get buffed again, I won’t even be happy because I know within 2 hours of that buff there will be people crying on the forums demanding us nerfed a-g-a-i-n like it’s been since this game came out.

Mackodlak.7961:

VomitSpit.6843:

Oh god, Burnfall has moved on to you warriors. Be careful, this guy is a feisty one. xD
Btw, he is a ranger. :O

OK, let me guess, ranger with almost endless stability cries about hammer? WTF can hammer warrior do to a ranger?!

Endless stability? …. You CLEARLY have never played the ranger class or you’d understand the only stability we get is from an elite that is on a 120 second cooldown and lasts for 20seconds. ENDLESS amounts of stab at work!

Lol…. kitten , hammer is pretty strong when used right

NargofWoV.4267:

Hmm, my Ranger has 3k more health and his healing is X3 as good as the healing signet on the warrior.

As a matter of fact, I was quite surprised, when I rolled the warrior how poor the healing signet was compared to my Ranger (my only other 80).

And how much healing power is your ranger running vs how much is your warrior running? Also, keep in mind most warriors can keep perma regen as well on top of healing signet with banner

Considering regen boon is at 0.125 x healing power , if you’re healing more than a settler’s warrior , then id like to really know how. The warrior can get almost 700hp passive perma a tick with that combo, what are you getting with your ranger in pvp again?

BurrTheKing.8571:

You know why you see a lot of Warriors?

Because you see a lot of Necromancers and Spirit Rangers.

Why wouldn’t you try out a class that has a spec that hard counters 2 popular builds? It’s the player’s fault for not trying to counter Hambow en masse that results in more players switching. If we saw more Mesmers, Power Necros, Power Rangers (XD), and any other of the numerous counters to the current Warrior meta builds you would see less of them.

Wait what, you’re clearly talking about PvP only then because probably 1% of the population is spirit rangers in WvW because it’s a terrible build in WvW – classes scale much better in WvW than in PvP compared to the ranger. Also, rangers are very bad in WvW overall compared to PvP and also get nerfed based upon PvP prowess being a back point holder and nothing else.

Power rangers do not counter warriors i wish people would stop kittening saying that. Dude any semi-competitive power ranger is running bow, all the warrior then has to do and good warriors will is slot weapons with max blocks w/ reflect and laugh, you’re a seasoned warrior Burr and you can’t figure that out?

I wish people would stop bringing ranger into the discussion everytime someone mentions warriors are op, rangers is not op at all and has a very low skill ceiling as it is. Jesus christ. It’s kittening ridiculous. I wish ranger had as much build access, viability, passive sustain as the warrior has then I wouldn’t mind people talking kitten about it every chance they get.

Rym.1469:

Syhnz.4928:

knight.4379:

Welcome to the thief club. We’ve been getting kittened about since launch.

lol :P im pretty sure 70% off the people who moan are Ranger’s/ele’s atm…well ele’s i understand your pain…but face it getting our hands on you was like nailing jello to the effin wall …and that jello was a unstable mass ready to explode and kill everything nearby…:( and rangers…well i guess they woulda gotten the clue…Ranger does not SPECIFICALY MEAN ARCHER…u kno RANGER/ARCHER same number off letters…NOT the same thing try the RRR ranger…or a Spirit build…hell Trappers rock ALOT off unsuspecting foes :P

Sup, Archer Rangers perform best vs. stunlock warriors

Actually BM is the most suitable build against a stun warrior because BM is the only ranger you can slot stun breaks into it and still be viable.

Traps, you cant because you need, voila, traps in your utilities which arent stun breaks
Spirits, you cant because you need, voila, spirits in your utilities which arent stun breaks.

Good warriors know when rampage as one is up, and if theyre running shield w/ reflect trait they’ll wait it out until that elite is done and then proceed back into the fight offensively..

Given that BM , spirit build, traps are really the only decent builds and to be honest they’ve been nerfed into the ground over the past year (and also lets be honest, even then you have classes that completely counter all 3 of them, that includes well played warriors) I wouldn’t count on it.

Anybody who mentiosn trapper against a stunlock warrior shouldn’t be taken seriously at all because they have no idea what they’re talking about.

Now enough about rangers and back onto warriors.

Warrior isn’t necessarily hard to play at the moment, but I don’t know if it’s op or just other classes need to be brought up to that level of gameplay.

Seems if you’re talking 1on1 situations the best are at the moment: Mesmer, thief and warrior.

In groups/zerg play they’re amazing as well due to on demand stuns / dmg and blast finishers on top of good tank that accomodates the zerg/group nicely especially when runnign with eles and guardians.

toastycake.1683:

yes lets remove this OP weapon with its long cool downs and slow cast time.

7.5sec earthshakers a long cooldown now?

hammer isnt op , but come on man x.x

nagymbear.5280:

Ryan.8367:

The ranger class might be the most pidgeonholed class in the game at the moment and it’s very sad that players keep coming up here and talking about how they killed some horrid kitten warrior and then claim that wariors are ‘still easy’.

The OP is speaking about wvw where I feel rangers do have options available, so they are not pigeonholed that much. Also he didn’t claim they are easy, he claimed that the number of baddies has gone up.

Warriors are more difficult in wvw than they are pvp, so having him duel them in pvp will give you a pretty good estimate of how that very same warrior will be with insanely better stats and also food nourishments and wvw buffs. And yes, rangers are very pidgeonholed in WvW because most run the same exact builds in pvp as you would in wvw. If you’re running anything outside of BM / Spirits / Traps you’re not going to provide a challenge at all against a player who’s good with his class, it’s really that simple and even then there are classes where you won’t win with any of those 3 mixtures due to telegraphed utilities/builds. The problem with those very builds is they’re so telegraphed it’s ridiculous, we’re forced to run specific kitten in regards to those very builds so there’s no surprise factor at all.

Sorry man, dueled way too many players and seen way too many build varieties from top players in both pvp and wvw. We are underpowered against some other classes , in tPvP it’s a tad different because it’s a role based gameplay not combat/duel based. Ranger’s job is to prolong a spot for as long as possible before he dies, most players don’t even bother contesting the point because it’s a waste of time so rangers will spend upwards to 5-10 minutes simply sitting there.

That’s the role ranger has become, a point bunker holder in pvp and a very very low skill ceiling roamer in wvw and even then other classes do roaming ALOT better. Also, need I remind the ranger community that ranger in all aspects of the game including PvE and WvW get nerfed because of that very performance in PvP which is astonishing in my view as all 3 modes of gameplay are ENTIRELY different, but to each his own.

If you want to deny that then duel me in pvp, if i beat you, then I know you can’t beat some of the players I practice with.

I play mainly ele now and sometimes mesmer and thief , much more fun , better build diversity and also the skill ceiling is much higher on all 3 of these classes, way higher than ranger will ever be which in turn also makes it much more fun. I still play my ranger but mostly to PvE now.

You’re not alone, ranger is a very bad class in general compared to others and not just in PvE. The skill ceiling is low, probably the most telegraphed builds out of all the classes, and very easy to counters to all of them. All of this on top of no true support in dungeons and the support that is possible is much better achieved by other classes tha have alot more than the ranger does. This class is in a very bad spot at the moment in the game.

ok, ill let you duel a couple longbow/hammer warriors in pvp , and let me know how that longbow/gs zerk build works out for you

the fact is, most people play at a non-competitive level, and they kill a guy who practically blows on warrior and then the make the assumption that ‘hey everything is alright, i do fine against all these warriors, they actually suck!’ … No everything is not alright, it’s FAR from alright. When you start playing actually good players in most of these other professions, you simply and literally realize how underpowered the ranger class actually is to them.

limited pet AI control leads to nothing but a very low skill ceiling, tied to that with very telegraphed builds – if you’re spirits, they already know exactly what you can do and many have ways to counter them, that includes warriors running longbow/hammer builds because they know you’re running either 10/0/30/30/0 – 0/10/30/30/0 or 0/0/30/30/10 – the problem with those mixtures is there is NO differentiation between the play style, it’s all relative yet different traits. If you run BM , they know exactly what traits you run because you can’t run anything in BM other than the common 0/0/30/10/30 or 0/10/30/10/20 because there’s no point otherwise.

If you run zerker, they obviously know you have no condition removal, this is obviously very easily countered with voila, running conditions.

The problem is our skills/traits/utilities and pets AI lead to such a shallow skill ceiling that once you actually start playing against people who are truly good with their class, they will always have an advantage due to skill ceiling.

This includes:

1. warrior – settler’s ammy longbow / sword shield , zerker hammer/longbow , anything settler’s with longbow and sword/sword – complete counters to any build a ranger comes up with
2. thief – 30/0/10/0/30 is a joke to us, any condition build run by a thief murders us due to manipulation of a poorly implemented passive condition removal system that muders our pets – i will say though introduction of sic em has helped tremendously
3. mesmer (arcane thievery kittens any ranger because any ranger is running condi who wants to take this game seriously in a competitive fashion) – any condi mesmer is broken atm and counters probably every ranger build.
4. engi – i think engi may have the highest skill ceiling in the game and completely obliterate our pet well within the time range to swap pets even with the BM trait with condi burst loading because of empathic bond
5. d/d elementalist – they’re weak atm to alot of classes that condi burst like engi/necromancers but they still have arguably one of the highest skill ceilings in the game when it comes to classes in general
6. condi necromancer – other than distance, rangers are weak in all aspects to condi necromancers, again because of shoddy passive condi removal that destroys our pets

Don’t get me wrong, empathic bond seems nice on paper but in the jist of it all, it actually blows and leads to very telegraphed gameplay. All you need to do is look for 3 condi removal and then count to 10 again, if that is not some of the most telegraphed condi removal in the game idk what is. It’s very easily manipulated, and done well by good players.

Couple that with our horrible power scaling and lack of any true power build in general. The reason why warrior does zerker well is because of power scaling / coefficients on weapons but most importaly , they give up no condition removal to obtain maximum results with a zerker build ,none , at all. It’s like this with alot of classes actually.

The ranger class might be the most pidgeonholed class in the game at the moment and it’s very sad that players keep coming up here and talking about how they killed some horrid kitten warrior and then claim that wariors are ‘still easy’.

Like I said, i have about 10 warrior friends who you can duel right now with your longbow/gs build, let me know if you want to.

evilapprentice.6379:

Master of Timespace.2548:

evilapprentice.6379:

Siva Mira.3546:

I think Guardian and Warrior need Stealth too, just saying.

Why not? They’ve already given it to mesmer, ranger and engineer.

On a more serious note, I’m not one to advocate that every class have access to everything, but the lack of burning is a serious hindrance for thief condi specs. How many effective thief condi specs do you see in TPvP?

If you said 0, congratulations, you are correct sir. The problem isn’t necessarily only solvable via burning, but it is the easiest solution, and the one anet might kitten up the least.

We don’t need more viable condi builds into this game.

They designed thieves with condition based weapons – P/D, P/P to some extent, and D/D’s dual skill are all clearly intended for condition damage – why should we have non-functioning weapons because conditions are currently in a bad place?

Ask Anet to fix the overall issue, don’t deny a class a functioning condi playstyle because of extraneous issues.

I don’t think you realize how overpowered you would be if you were to get access to burning. Simple and plain, thief condi dominates already.

Situations.2416:

To the FA ranger from [Corp] you left before I could invite you to group but wanted to say good fight man, you are one hell of a ranger and you pretty much owned me but if you see this I wanted to see if you could whisper me and give me some build/ideas and some tips?. Name is Sers De Larasoz. Thanks

Sure whisper me in game sometime

theCOREYCOLAK.5698:

Roquefort.4160:

good fights in tonights (and last nights) oceanic in SBI BL. even though i tried all night last night, finally got your gari tonight. solid defense of bay and gari though.

Have my babies. Plz.

You’re back!

Wrath.4097:

Snypa.3847:

Man there was a ranger i fought today from [Corp] on FA , he has to be probably the best ranger ive ever seen and he whooped my kitten and i usually handle rangers pretty well, he had alot of legendaries too roaming south in dragonbrand. Wow, simply amazing..

Yes it’s a ranger from [Corp] with Bolt and rodgort AND a frostfang!! I found this ranger roaming south in Dragonbrand as well and lost 3 times to her , no matter what I tried spec-wise i couldn’t seem to win she’s an extremely good ranger :[

Thanks for the compliments, it’s been good fights out there =)

a t s e.9614:

dDuff.3860:

Build something like 10/0/0/30/30 and pick soldier/shaman’s
S/D+SB and just spam evades endlessly – bunkering points with zero effort.

Too mch efort when warrios have a PASSIVE regen

Which can be countered with poison, which you can have alot of.

Imagi.4561:

Honestly, the issue isn’t with the skill, it’s the premise for this change—as several people have stated. I don’t even use a stealth-based build, and I think it was a bad design decision.

Mainly, I feel that Rangers getting a skill that applies an instant, unavoidable Revealed is the first step to all classes having some form of instant Reveal, making stealth useless as a survival mechanic in PvP. And if it spreads out to PvE via mob/NPC skills, then stealth will be significantly less viable there, as well.

This in and of itself is fine, if Thieves are compensated in some other fashion. Given the way that balancing has been over the past year, I’m afraid that stealth will be removed and Thieves won’t receive anything to replace it.

They’ve already said, when implementing sic em to rangers that rangers will be the only class to get this debuff. I don’t think they’ll extend , if they extend to more classes then I’m sure thieves will be compensated for it. Sic em was given to rangers as a group utility, it’s to keep thieves from picking off people in group combat , it effectively renders them useless in this fashion for 4 seconds then they can get back into the group play once the 4 seconds is up.

Maugetarr.6823:

Ryan.8367:

Maugetarr.6823:

rpfohr.7048:

evilapprentice.6379:

rpfohr.7048:

Boohoo. So it’s a hard counter to a strategy that itself was a hard counter. As I stated earlier its not like its destroying your class mechanic initiative and steal.

Stealth is not a counter to anyone who knows what they’re doing. It doesn’t block access to your traits, therefore it is not a hard counter in the same way as denying stealth to an SA build. Stealth may hard counter you, but plenty of players have figured out how to deal with it.

Furthermore, Stealth is a thief mechanic – we have an entire traitline dedicated to “on stealth” effects, and each of our weapons get a special attack when in stealth – no other class gets anything close to comparable.

I get it, you don’t like thieves. Disagree all you want, but don’t lie or delude yourself, it makes you look foolish and does nothing for your argument.

I repeat again. Stealth is not our class mechanic initiative is as well as steal. Thief just happens to have lots of stealth access

Also thief is my second favorite class. So I love them and play one.
I hate complaining and incomplete thoughts
Think about why it was given to ranger and you will realize that any future skill that would get this would have a more apparent weakness

Lastly once again killing the pet negates the skill. Weakness found now go use it

Again, just to reiterate, stealth attacks are a mechanic. While other classes may have access to stealth and limited stealth based traits, they do not have access to stealth attacks. So while stealth may or may not be a core mechanic, we definitely have core mechanics based on stealth.

Next time don’t bring dagger or pistol mainhand to fight a ranger, it may be less useful now. Now you may have to use s/d instead, it’s kind of cool because instead of spamming 5->2 or 5 on our pet you know can’t dodge you basically just hit 3 now, dodge roll cancel , hit 3 again and you get the option to steal a boon as well if you want to and the plus is with s/d you still get the option manipulate that bad pet ai by CNDing that pet , that once again, you know can’t dodge! It’s a perk and you don’t have to hit as many buttons!

Actually, before this patch my build revolved around using S/D and using every skill on the bar, not just evade spamming (you know, our full kitten n a l (really filters?) to stay effective against people who knew how to press a dodge button during LS). But rangers can put up boons faster than I can strip them with that now though so the better option has become trying to burst one before they can react. For now I’ve gone back to a semi-burst D/D build as taking 1 boon for 5 initiative is subpar which is why it was increased to 2 because of the boon bunker meta that existed before the change.

As for your suggestion of using BPS then using heartseeker after it wears off….the stealth is applied at the end of that combo, meaning that the ranger will still have 3/4 of a second to use an instant cast ability. I haven’t tried testing it but even if it doesn’t stack does the new revealed not replace the old one meaning you could overlap them?

No I said to use BP , blinding powder. And no, the reveal doesn’t overlap if it casted. If you get revealed from sic em casted on you and somebody else does it say, 2 seconds in, it has no effect at all and is wasted and the original reveal stays in place. It has to wear off completely before another sic em reveal can be used. The same applies if you apply reveal yourself once attacking out of stealth, sic em can’t be used on you within that reveal time, they have to wait until that wears off before applying it to you.

Xsorus.2507:

Rofl, there is a counter to this ability, Using one of your many teleports to run away while Reveal is up.

I know I know, I have a Thief…I know the joy of being able to just pop one of the many Stealth’s we have over and over and just heal back up in stealth while dropping Conditions, Now you may have to actually think when playing the class.

Its a Huge step, going from a non thinking class to one that actually requires a bit of thought…but you’ll get there.

Pretty much this

evilapprentice.6379:

Ryan.8367:

evilapprentice.6379:

rpfohr.7048:

I am sorry Ryan and I are right
The definition of a unique class mechanic Is that no class except yours has access to it

Quick! Name another class with stealth attacks!

Dear lord, how do you remember to breath?

Rangers get a longbow attack that grants us stealth, and traits that also work off of stealth. If we get sic em’d before we do that attack, it’s rendered useless. Shrug.

A “Stealth attack” is a special attack that can only be launched from stealth. It’s an extremely basic definition of an extremely basic concept, and you still managed to mess it up.

I should thank you though – a correct argument isn’t nearly as helpful in exposing how silly something is as the unrestrained enthusiasm of the terminally ignorant.

So, thank you for proving my point so completely and irrevocably.

You argument is that sic em doesn’t allow you to get the benefit of this attack. I provided an example of an attack that gets negated by sic em and has the exact same effect the only difference is they’re opposite from each other , one puts you into stealth, one doesn’t allow you to go stealth to get the attack – virtually the same thing, I’m sorry you fail to see it.

evilapprentice.6379:

rpfohr.7048:

I am sorry Ryan and I are right
The definition of a unique class mechanic Is that no class except yours has access to it

Quick! Name another class with stealth attacks!

Dear lord, how do you remember to breath?

Rangers get a longbow attack that grants us stealth, and traits that also work off of stealth. If we get sic em’d before we do that attack, it’s rendered useless. Shrug.

Also, like it’s been said before , don’t rely on stealth so much and you may not be able to bring dagger/pistol mainhand to a ranger fight and if you do, know that the 1 attack can be rendered useless every 40 seconds and that’s if it’s spammed. Best suggestions I could give to ya really – you have to improvise now against rangers, because Sic Em is probably going no where. Now adapt, like many good thieves have told you already from all your pointless rants from other threads.

Asudementio.8526:

Ryan.8367:

rpfohr.7048:

evilapprentice.6379:

rpfohr.7048:

Boohoo. So it’s a hard counter to a strategy that itself was a hard counter. As I stated earlier its not like its destroying your class mechanic initiative and steal.

Stealth is not a counter to anyone who knows what they’re doing. It doesn’t block access to your traits, therefore it is not a hard counter in the same way as denying stealth to an SA build. Stealth may hard counter you, but plenty of players have figured out how to deal with it.

Furthermore, Stealth is a thief mechanic – we have an entire traitline dedicated to “on stealth” effects, and each of our weapons get a special attack when in stealth – no other class gets anything close to comparable.

I get it, you don’t like thieves. Disagree all you want, but don’t lie or delude yourself, it makes you look foolish and does nothing for your argument.

I repeat again. Stealth is not our class mechanic initiative is as well as steal. Thief just happens to have lots of stealth access

Also thief is my second favorite class. So I love them and play one.
I hate complaining and incomplete thoughts
Think about why it was given to ranger and you will realize that any future skill that would get this would have a more apparent weakness

Lastly once again killing the pet negates the skill. Weakness found now go use it

Nah, they want the pet alive so they can abuse CND’s on a minion they know can’t dodge.

When your precious ranger is nerfed even further than it is i will take solace in the fact that i am a good enough person not to go to the ranger forums and troll.

We’ve been nerfed to oblivion and have gotten trolls before, it’ll be nothing new. We have one , maybe 2 builds that actually work in the game in terms of viable combat so your crying will get no sympathy from me or any other ranger for that matter.

Also, I main ranger but only because it was my 1st character I made – he’s hardly precious , but it has been fun trolling thieves with Sic Em. I actually like my thief, mesmer more. I have an elementalist as well that is quite fun.

evilapprentice.6379:

Ryan.8367:

Maugetarr.6823:

rpfohr.7048:

evilapprentice.6379:

rpfohr.7048:

Boohoo. So it’s a hard counter to a strategy that itself was a hard counter. As I stated earlier its not like its destroying your class mechanic initiative and steal.

Stealth is not a counter to anyone who knows what they’re doing. It doesn’t block access to your traits, therefore it is not a hard counter in the same way as denying stealth to an SA build. Stealth may hard counter you, but plenty of players have figured out how to deal with it.

Furthermore, Stealth is a thief mechanic – we have an entire traitline dedicated to “on stealth” effects, and each of our weapons get a special attack when in stealth – no other class gets anything close to comparable.

I get it, you don’t like thieves. Disagree all you want, but don’t lie or delude yourself, it makes you look foolish and does nothing for your argument.

I repeat again. Stealth is not our class mechanic initiative is as well as steal. Thief just happens to have lots of stealth access

Also thief is my second favorite class. So I love them and play one.
I hate complaining and incomplete thoughts
Think about why it was given to ranger and you will realize that any future skill that would get this would have a more apparent weakness

Lastly once again killing the pet negates the skill. Weakness found now go use it

Again, just to reiterate, stealth attacks are a mechanic. While other classes may have access to stealth and limited stealth based traits, they do not have access to stealth attacks. So while stealth may or may not be a core mechanic, we definitely have core mechanics based on stealth.

Next time don’t bring dagger or pistol mainhand to fight a ranger, it may be less useful now. Now you may have to use s/d instead, it’s kind of cool because instead of spamming 5->2 or 5 on our pet you know can’t dodge you basically just hit 3 now, dodge roll cancel , hit 3 again and you get the option to steal a boon as well if you want to! It’s a perk and you don’t have to hit as many buttons!

How can you have so little understanding of what you’re talking about yet ensure, so completely, that everyone knows it? Didn’t your parents teach you shame?

This thread is an excellent example of some of the downright most ignorant players I’ve ever seen. The slapdash, mechanically inaccurate, emotion based arguments contained would be worthy of a stand up comedy tour, is Anet didn’t for some godawful reason take you waste of resources seriously.

Was a response to him saying that thieves contained a unique stealth mechanic (when 4 classes get it, and half of them have traits pertaining to stealth play, that includes rangers in the marksmanship tree) mainly because of stealth attacks. I told him not to run the 2 weapons with one skill on them contribute to stealth attacks against a ranger. That’s all.

Maugetarr.6823:

rpfohr.7048:

evilapprentice.6379:

rpfohr.7048:

Boohoo. So it’s a hard counter to a strategy that itself was a hard counter. As I stated earlier its not like its destroying your class mechanic initiative and steal.

Stealth is not a counter to anyone who knows what they’re doing. It doesn’t block access to your traits, therefore it is not a hard counter in the same way as denying stealth to an SA build. Stealth may hard counter you, but plenty of players have figured out how to deal with it.

Furthermore, Stealth is a thief mechanic – we have an entire traitline dedicated to “on stealth” effects, and each of our weapons get a special attack when in stealth – no other class gets anything close to comparable.

I get it, you don’t like thieves. Disagree all you want, but don’t lie or delude yourself, it makes you look foolish and does nothing for your argument.

I repeat again. Stealth is not our class mechanic initiative is as well as steal. Thief just happens to have lots of stealth access

Also thief is my second favorite class. So I love them and play one.
I hate complaining and incomplete thoughts
Think about why it was given to ranger and you will realize that any future skill that would get this would have a more apparent weakness

Lastly once again killing the pet negates the skill. Weakness found now go use it

Again, just to reiterate, stealth attacks are a mechanic. While other classes may have access to stealth and limited stealth based traits, they do not have access to stealth attacks. So while stealth may or may not be a core mechanic, we definitely have core mechanics based on stealth.

Next time don’t bring dagger or pistol mainhand to fight a ranger, it may be less useful now. Now you may have to use s/d instead, it’s kind of cool because instead of spamming 5->2 or 5 on our pet you know can’t dodge you basically just hit 3 now, dodge roll cancel , hit 3 again and you get the option to steal a boon as well if you want to and the plus is with s/d you still get the option manipulate that bad pet ai by CNDing that pet , that once again, you know can’t dodge! It’s a perk and you don’t have to hit as many buttons!

rpfohr.7048:

evilapprentice.6379:

rpfohr.7048:

Boohoo. So it’s a hard counter to a strategy that itself was a hard counter. As I stated earlier its not like its destroying your class mechanic initiative and steal.

Stealth is not a counter to anyone who knows what they’re doing. It doesn’t block access to your traits, therefore it is not a hard counter in the same way as denying stealth to an SA build. Stealth may hard counter you, but plenty of players have figured out how to deal with it.

Furthermore, Stealth is a thief mechanic – we have an entire traitline dedicated to “on stealth” effects, and each of our weapons get a special attack when in stealth – no other class gets anything close to comparable.

I get it, you don’t like thieves. Disagree all you want, but don’t lie or delude yourself, it makes you look foolish and does nothing for your argument.

I repeat again. Stealth is not our class mechanic initiative is as well as steal. Thief just happens to have lots of stealth access

Also thief is my second favorite class. So I love them and play one.
I hate complaining and incomplete thoughts
Think about why it was given to ranger and you will realize that any future skill that would get this would have a more apparent weakness

Lastly once again killing the pet negates the skill. Weakness found now go use it

Nah, they want the pet alive so they can abuse CND’s on a minion they know can’t dodge.

Maugetarr.6823:

Ryan.8367:

Doomdesire.9365:

Pretty ridiculous earlier today I had 12seconds of revealed from multiple rangers spamming this crap. Needless to say, melted in less than a second.

You can’t even target against D/P users, why add it? It hurts the good builds who rarely rely on stealth. This is a mistake anet. You should have given a passive pet signet that lets pets attack thieves in stealth, not any revealed skill.

I think many thieves realize that ranger is a weak class, but you shouldn’t nerf another class as a “buff” to rangers. You should buff rangers and leave the other classes alone. All this is doing is fixing one problem by adding another.

As a ranger , it’s good to see thief tears in regards to ranger , it only took 1 year to accomplish.

On a side note, the reveal doesn’t stack so if you actually let them chain Sic em on you and anticipated it, then I’m sorry to say this, but you’re really bad and need to learn anticipation on the game. The issue really doesn’t really apply to the rangers themselves, you need to know they can do that now and anticipate it and play smart. Finally, you have to play smart against a ranger now, shocking , I know.

How would he have let them not chain it? Dodging? Stealthing?

BP after 1st reveal wears off before the 2nd ranger uses sic em and keep distance and bring shortbow to avoid dmg and escape if necessary.

Also, the reveal from sic em DOESNT stack , tried and tested. The first reveal needs to actually wear off or the new reveal application simply doesn’t work and it’s wasted. Also, the same applies to a thief that has revealed himself, if you have revealed yourself after an attack , if that ranger applies sic em on you in that reveal timeframe, it doesn’t work either.

To all the thieves, how’s it feel now to have to anticipate a ranger utility now?

Doomdesire.9365:

Pretty ridiculous earlier today I had 12seconds of revealed from multiple rangers spamming this crap. Needless to say, melted in less than a second.

You can’t even target against D/P users, why add it? It hurts the good builds who rarely rely on stealth. This is a mistake anet. You should have given a passive pet signet that lets pets attack thieves in stealth, not any revealed skill.

I think many thieves realize that ranger is a weak class, but you shouldn’t nerf another class as a “buff” to rangers. You should buff rangers and leave the other classes alone. All this is doing is fixing one problem by adding another.

As a ranger , it’s good to see thief tears in regards to ranger , it only took 1 year to accomplish.

On a side note, the reveal doesn’t stack so if you actually let them chain Sic em on you and anticipated it, then I’m sorry to say this, but you’re really bad and need to learn anticipation on the game. The issue really doesn’t really apply to the rangers themselves, you need to know they can do that now and anticipate it and play smart. Finally, you have to play smart against a ranger now, shocking , I know.

Ision.3207:

zabriel.4852:

Enough about engis lol . Seriously, Why do you guys get ingored? Rangers is the class right now with the most problems. I figure its because any thing right now thats works with an AI sucks. Ex. Ele’s conjures, Ranger’s Pets, Engi Turrets. I think this game has a problem with AIs and since Ranger’s are soposed to rely on a bad AI(pet) they are going to have major issues.

Nope, only some folks claim the Rangers are broken – primarily those that want Anet to totally redesign the class into a pet-less massive damage Ranged dps-er … or those that want their pet buffed to the point they can play a combination of easy-mode and god-mode. So I’ll say it again:

Funny thread … especially given how solid the Ranger class is in all modes of game-play when skillfully played. Of course like each and every single class in this game, the Ranger could certainly use some tweaking and adjustments, but there is no “crisis” here lol.

Truth be told, the so-called pet “issue” is for the most part, no more than a learn to play issue.

With one, and ONLY one exception, there is absolutely nothing about the Ranger class that makes it a poor class compared to others. They are rock solid in sPvP, among the very best in over-world PvE, and hold their own quite well in WvW. And oddly, despite the “pets are useless” claims and the “our dps is terrible” claims, Rangers are among the best of 1v1 duelist and sPvP classes. Of course there are adjustments that need to be made, skills that need refinement and so forth — but this is true of every class in the game.

As to that one and ONLY exception, that’s obviously PvE dungeon grouping. But if/when Anet were to add a simple “dungeons ONLY pets take 50% less aoe damage” (or some other simple alternative like this) … then this too will become a non-issue.

Hard to take this kid seriously, I mean one of the builds he’s suggested in his history is

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNBjODbkoKxOwyvi1SQsKAoWBKxUcoE9eQL13+UGyXeCC-jQyAYLioZiSwILJmKAlALiGbZsIas6FMdJRUtHvIa1yAsMBA-e

Really? You have no merit to even talk about other people QQing about their class as you haven’t fought against good players of other classes obviously or you wouldn’t post that bullkitten in a forum at all.

Asudementio.8526:

Ryan.8367:

evilapprentice.6379:

Azure.8670:

UrMom.4205:

evilapprentice.6379:

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Bazzoong.7145:

…
It will also prevent shadow refuge (or mass invisibility) from being used to save downed team mates, it will make downed 3 for thieves and the mesmer downed invisibility and it`s clone totally useless, the implications are far more severe than any of the previous posts indicate.

There is the actual value of this change. Stealth was the only sure stomp save in the game. It had no counter play. Really I don’t think it is that big a deal, because if you are a Ranger what are you giving up for “Sic em’”? Probably a spirit. While having a counter play for stealth is valuable the spirits are the crutch that make most ranger builds viable right now, and on the whole I think that the spirits actually carry more value.

The anti-stealth counter should have simply been “The thief is visible, even while in stealth, for 4s” – that would solve everyone’s issue without locking a thief out of their SA traits and stealth attacks.

^ +1, Sic em should only allow the ranger to see the thief but still allow the thief to be in stealth. It would allow the ranger to 1v1 a thief with more dynamics but it would also introduce some interesting team play and coordination for smaller skirmishes. Completely locking out a trait line is just bad implementation.

Its not completely locking out a traitline.

Its Exactly that – 4s reveal means no accessing anything in SA for 4s, because all of the minor traits and all the major traits worth running are stealth reliant – how you missed an obvious fact plain as day is beyond me.

Then don’t run everything in SA? It’s a choice to run traits in SA.

Yes, it is choice between survivabiltiy and a lack of……..

Get good, shrug, that’s what thieves have told rangers when they’ve come to your threads asking for help on beating a thief in duels or having issues with thieves in general as a ranger.

Get good and come back to me

You’re not going to get sympathy from me or any other ranger really regarding the Sic Em buff, it’s lackluster at best anyway and a good thief still has insane advantages over the ranger class in general. Not to mention most builds that can even go toe to toe with a thief is a condi build because of the survivability WS brings (you know, you’re not the only class being pidgeonholed into one trait line for condition removal) which steals completely destroys, and with BP being a blast now – well , I think you get the picture.. So with that in mind, an op steal that completely counters most builds you’ll face a good ranger as in a 1on1, constant CND’s on a pet that you know can’t dodge, lack of aoe (traps were nerfed too this patch btw) , and pet AI against constant stealthing targets (you do realize it takes the pet 1 1/2 seconds to register that you’ve come out of stealth right? that’s a major dps loss – we’ll compare that 1 second to the PW nerf due to para, it now is at 0.55% when stunning , that makes or breaks a combo of dmg vs 1 full second).

I’d say we’re about even now, and even then , still not really even. I don’t think you realize how much of advantage you have on rangers even going into the fight. I know thief really well, I play one, and I know the weaknesses rangers face against thieves. So please, spare me the victim game.

Guardians are funny

They got their PoV fixed FINALLY , how they didn’t see this coming a mile away (since it was also in the stickied fix suggestions thread for THREE MONTHS in the guardian sub forum) is beyond me. They knew what they were getting for a long time and tried to keep their mouth shut about the bug. It gets fixed and their FIRST REACTION is to jump ship to one of the most buffed / broken / op classes currently in the game right now. Just gives you a little insight on the guardian player base in general. They’ve had it easy for a long time and want to continue to have it easy.

Ranger playerbase is different, we’ve been nerfed just about every patch since release so we’re used to it – it’s nothing new to us and most stick with the class. It’s called consistency.

evilapprentice.6379:

Azure.8670:

UrMom.4205:

evilapprentice.6379:

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Bazzoong.7145:

…
It will also prevent shadow refuge (or mass invisibility) from being used to save downed team mates, it will make downed 3 for thieves and the mesmer downed invisibility and it`s clone totally useless, the implications are far more severe than any of the previous posts indicate.

There is the actual value of this change. Stealth was the only sure stomp save in the game. It had no counter play. Really I don’t think it is that big a deal, because if you are a Ranger what are you giving up for “Sic em’”? Probably a spirit. While having a counter play for stealth is valuable the spirits are the crutch that make most ranger builds viable right now, and on the whole I think that the spirits actually carry more value.

The anti-stealth counter should have simply been “The thief is visible, even while in stealth, for 4s” – that would solve everyone’s issue without locking a thief out of their SA traits and stealth attacks.

^ +1, Sic em should only allow the ranger to see the thief but still allow the thief to be in stealth. It would allow the ranger to 1v1 a thief with more dynamics but it would also introduce some interesting team play and coordination for smaller skirmishes. Completely locking out a trait line is just bad implementation.

Its not completely locking out a traitline.

Its Exactly that – 4s reveal means no accessing anything in SA for 4s, because all of the minor traits and all the major traits worth running are stealth reliant – how you missed an obvious fact plain as day is beyond me.

Then don’t run everything in SA? It’s a choice to run traits in SA.

If it goes back to what it was it needs initiative cost increased or else it’ll just be PW spamming all over again with a huge stun.

Lol, you know how many thieves immediately started crying when they all thought this one condi removal every 10 seconds was a stealth nerf introduction because the tooltip said it? They immediately screamed ‘i quit, gonna go play warrior now!’ (which goes to show you what kind of classes they favor when immediately thinking of a new class to go to, an overpowered broken one), some even blindly said it was true without even testing that it actually wasn’t one every 10 seconds.

Not gonna happen, thieves will cry too much

Elementalist unhappy in their forums, Guardians got PoV fixed and theyre unhappy, Rangers are pretty unhappy about pet AI still not being fixed, necro upset about leeching not being consistent, mesmers unhappy about iduelist fix

I think the only forum that people aren’t really that upset is warrior forums

Quit trying to blow kitten out of proportion, EVERY patch that drops people get mad about what they didn’t get, it’s just the way it is.

Oh ok, that makes sense then. Wanna duel me now since you can’t spam pistol whip stuns with para and I can reveal you now?

Pure of voice has been in the fix suggestions for MONTHS and has been noted for a long time as being broken , im surprised it took this long for it to be fixed … Any guardians who didn’t think that fix was coming from a mile away is just clueless.

12 thieves have already been hunted by my ranger since Sic Em has been buffed…. The best part was watching them flail around helplessly wondering why they couldn’t stealth. Muahahaahah

I like how with every other class, PvE also includes WvW , but for rangers it doesn’t. We also always usually get nerfed in PvE/WvW based on dominating PvP builds too. Classy anet, real classy.

AgentChaos.4932:

you forgot pov needs to remove 2 condis again

It was always meant to only remove 1… It was a fix… Alot of classes got fixes , mesmer’s duelist got fixed , sigil of para was fixed as well… Please do not tell me you didn’t see this coming? It has been in the guardian suggestions for fixes for like 4 months.

To be fair it can be traited to 32seconds (all you need is 10 points in beastmastery) and it’ll usually be casted, atleast by good rangers when you’ve gotten pretty low in health and they’re expecting a SR / BP / CnD.

Helios.3598:

Ryan.8367:

20% chance on duelist now, finally

gg mesmers

no infinite vigor for rangers anymore either. So nice of you to stop by and grace us with your apparent lack of self confidence.

This change hurts, regardless of whether it’s considered a fix or a nerf. I guess the scepter buff offsets the change somewhat. Traited, we can now apply 5 stacks of torment every 8 seconds that lasts at least 8 seconds.

It definitely hurts the Sword/Pistol + Scepter/Torch builds… I’ll probably try replacing Sword/Pistol with something : /

Actually you don’t use that trait to get infinite vigor and only works with healing spring which is a very bad heal anyway unless you’re in a group , you slot 20 in BM to get bird pet swapping get vigor for 5 seconds and then Lightning reflexes utility for 12 seconds of vigor every 32 seconds. Oh yea, our bird pet swap trait now gives it 5 secs of vigor to all allies in the radius.

Thanks and come again!

Haha, I used sic em on a thief and he couldnt stealth and i bursted him down. Pretty funny.

20% chance on duelist now, finally

gg mesmers

Use sic em only when you need to… You can’t spam it, thieves will be waiting for it. You need to get them when they’re ATLEAST <20% and you have viable burst ready for them coupled with lockdown. Keep in mind also their shadow’s embrace trait which helps them remove conditions got nerfed to 1 every 10 seconds instead of 3 seconds while in stealth. It’ll be alright jsut be smart with the skill.

No more guardians abusing the broken pure of voice , yay!

RashanDale.3609:

the only bad change i see there is the Larcenous strike nerf, which i just dont understand. Boon-ripping is the main purpose of that skill, why didnt they nerf another aspect of it instead? tone down the damage or change it to 1rip+1steal. something like that…

What? alot of people, myself included, used it to simply gap close and evade hence why most would simply dodge out of the 2nd attack chain. Larc strike still does good dmg, be happy.