Guild Wars 2

I’ll do a fight club startup tonight and get my guildies there around 9-10pm Eastern time when i get off work, hit me up then

I’m referring to the no mechanic of being able to stop your pet if your pet gets said torment condition against good condition based necros/mesmers and now warriors and how it is with other rangers as they start to encounter these types of builds and setups. This is also part of a bigger issue with the ranger traits in general of having to go 30 deep into WS for EB (which is why so many rangers run condition bunker) to get adequate condition removal as well, but that’s another topic entirely.

One adrenaline bar from a warrior takes the effects of 3 bleeds off , go back to PvE where you belong. My issue isn’t with the damage of Torment itself.

My issue is mainly with Empathic Bond & Torment and how this new condition is another condition being transferred to our pet and also a complete counter to the pet AI as our pets simply can’t stop, it’s just more passive killing of your pet and even faster with no option to stop. You can only pet swap so much in a given time.

Since more classes are getting access to torment, one of our main condition removals is a transfer to our pet unto which has no option to stop if we wanted it to and torment causes quite a bit of damage on a condition build while moving. Obvious things I’ve noticed is condition warriors / necros not only because just of the torment damage but the AOE damage as well coupled with torment. People who are specced 30 in BM may not see this as an issue, but anything outside of BM will see this as a big hit to an already aoe-weak pet as I have in PvP mostly but will probably start to see it in WvW as well.

I was just wondering how others have experienced torment from warriors/necros and if they feel the same way. I guess I could say the same thing about churning earth from elementalists unto which I dodge it almost 100% of the time but my pet doesn’t have this option, therefore taking bleed damage unless I force a pet swap but this is mainly about torment damage.

Daze.6914:

Ezeriel.9574:

It’s true, I just tested it on the walking golem in mists.

Then it must be reported to ANet as it should not happen.

Actually traps don’t JUST deal condition damage, it actually counts the initial damage a trap does as a mimic of you ‘hitting’ the target. This is why omnomberry was so powerful for high crit chance trap builds back before it was nerfed because omnonberry would heal from the crits generated from the initial trap damage. So in this respect of it breaking stealth, it’s not broken as it is basically an attack. I see what you mean though, since we aren’t physically , ourselves, doing the damage it shouldn’t break stealth and I agree.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Ryan.8367:

skcamow.3527:

bwuki.2175:

am i the only one that feels as if we’re being shafted?

I don’t feel shafted at all. Taking into account all the issues we still have, bugs and all, Anet will work those out and we have to keep them honest of course. But we’re still an incredibly strong class, one of the strongest in the game. In fact, I love hearing about the buffs to Ranger and Warrior. It will make them harder to kill for sure. Just means we mesmers get to meet the challenge and show everyone we’re still in the top tier of professions.

As a spirit condition ranger who also runs a high regen condition trapper build, i really had no issue with any mesmers (except like Corey Goes Shatter) and I’ve fought EXTREMELY GOOD good mesmers. I think mesmers lack condition removal, but they also have alot of defensives that assist with mitigating that but in the end some better condition handling would probably help them out alot – conditions are just too strong to them and ranger provides a good deal of conditions while timing evasion/dodging for their important counter attacks. I still cringe when I see a mesmer use invis with 12 stacks of bleed on him, only to find him on the ground dead after being uncovered.

Corey goes shatter is a very good mesmer. Having trouble with him is representative of having trouble with any very good mesmer.

Well, come to think of it I was always running a direct dmg trap build with divinity runes when I dueled him regularly. condition trapper/spirit build especially with the new keen edge trait rangers have in marksmanship would just mutilate him probably.

Prysin.8542:

ya know, just throwing this in here. But say you use “piercing Arrows” with this new shot. Wont that make rangers able to chain stealth insanely if they fire into a crowd?

Probably not , but it brings up a good question, if the first one hits the target, it procs stealth, does that mean the 2nd/3rd target hit would bring us out of stealth?

skcamow.3527:

bwuki.2175:

am i the only one that feels as if we’re being shafted?

I don’t feel shafted at all. Taking into account all the issues we still have, bugs and all, Anet will work those out and we have to keep them honest of course. But we’re still an incredibly strong class, one of the strongest in the game. In fact, I love hearing about the buffs to Ranger and Warrior. It will make them harder to kill for sure. Just means we mesmers get to meet the challenge and show everyone we’re still in the top tier of professions.

As a spirit condition ranger who also runs a high regen condition trapper build, i really had no issue with any mesmers (except like Corey Goes Shatter) and I’ve fought EXTREMELY GOOD good mesmers. I think mesmers lack condition removal, but they also have alot of defensives that assist with mitigating that but in the end some better condition handling would probably help them out alot – conditions are just too strong to them and ranger provides a good deal of conditions while timing evasion/dodging for their important counter attacks. I still cringe when I see a mesmer use invis with 12 stacks of bleed on him, only to find him on the ground dead after being uncovered.

Iavra.8510:

Keep in mind ranger has to actually hit you for the stealth to take place

Hmm, does he? I just started a ranger (lvl 20 thanks to achievement chest scroll) and the current Hunter’s Shot applies it’s swiftness even when i’m not hitting anything (no need to even be in combat).

The patch notes state that it applies stealth, there is no mention of “on hit” (apart from the old, now removed, vulnerability). Also it’s quite possible to just shoot straight into the ground or into the air by moving your camera.

Swiftness was given regardless if it hit or not and it’s to pet only. The vulnerability, which needed to be on hit was replaced by the stealth. I’m sure it’s on hit like it was with the vulnerability application.

Iavra.8510:

So…

+ no nerfs!
+ minimal better condition cleanse
+ unneeded buff to an already good signet

- still no out-of-combat mobility
- still no reliable swiftness apart from focus
- our traitlines are still a mess
- still a lot of bugged/unclarified traits (iElasticity, …)
- useless buffs/boons on random skills/traits
- weapons that don’t know if they want to be condi or power
- too high cds on a lot of skills
- phantasm specs still op in 1v1

Well, that’s most likely the best patch we will ever get, so i guess we should be happy.

On top of this is the new ranger stealth:

mesmer (usual stealth-build without Veil)
- decoy: 3s stealth every 40s -> 9s/120s
- prestige: 3s stealth every 30s -> 12s/120s
- Massinvis: 5s stealth every 90s -> ~7s/120s
-> 28s stealth every 120s

ranger
- LB #3: 3s stealth every 12s -> 30s/120s
-> 30s stealth every 120s

This is without taking traits, BUT:
- we need 45 traitpoints to get -20% cd on 2 of 3 stealth skills (cleansing conflagration + iCelerity).
- we can’t take both cd reduction traits + PU since that would cost 75 traitpoints.
- ranger needs 20 traitpoints to get -20% cd on his stealth skill + SB if he decides to use double bows.
- ranger uses 1 weapon skill whereas we have to also use 1 utility skill and our elite.
- the ranger -cd trait is in an agressive traitline, while ours are defensive/supportive.

This is not saying that we should get more stealth skills but that our cds are too high and we need to invest a lot more to achieve the same as other classes.

Keep in mind ranger has to actually hit you for the stealth to take place and not just use a utility skill, and it’s a pretty obvious looking attack skill too , it’s a huge gray streaming arrow that looks much different than a regular longbow attack. Just know that you need to evade that one attack and they’ll be like regular longbow rangers, although your clones can’t dodge, so we’ll just do it to your clones instead but still. :P

Time to dust off the Azureflame and my corrupted warhorn

When we fought the NS peeps we had 5 peeps (and my spirit army and spirit elite makes it look like a kitten zerg) , it was still fun fighting NS peeps though, I have no issues with [NS]. I tried dropping our group and joining theirs to see if they wanted to duel @ windmill but they denied my join request into the group. The guards at that camp were pretty annoying though lol.

I ended up dueling W Rod at the windmill shortly after that after seeing him at ruins and after our duel I had to leave due to work stuff coming up. No trash talking from W Rod to me though.

To the [AI] (Angry Intent i think) peeps, good duels @ Windmill

Xirin.8593:

GDI I’m at work and missing sweet, sweet keep WXP.

Applied Fortitude isn’t going to buy itself.

Lol, same

Miiro.3124:

Players like that are rare indeed, but they do exsist, i think there are more than a handful but not alot on each tier matchup. So we are spread between matchups on our servers so its hard to run into each other. I wish we could would make WvW more fun for everybody trying to find good fights.

I’d like to duel you when JQ faces Maguuma , if that ever occurs.

Bredin.5368:

Ryan.8367:

What build is good for wvw? I spent a few days out there and ran back to pvp after getting face rolled countless times. I fought a warrior which was close and then he changed weapon and I couldn’t do anything after that. He was stuck to me like glue and my gs couldn’t out dps him and my longbow knockback and pet fears/root/knockbacks didn’t last long enough to keep him off me.

I fought some kind of healing ele. I couldn’t do anything as a power/survival ranger. I used my fear, root, knockbacks.. timed my damage and it didn’t last long enough for him to get out and heal up and bash me again. Lost 5 rounds.

I fought a guardian, this was a fun fight. Was 50/50 on wins/loses.

I fought a mesmer. Mass stealth/condition build and had no chance. I stayed on mesmer entire time, but my dps just wan’t enough. I am actually gearing up my mesmer for this now and so far in pvp I have taken on 3+ people and won.

I did take out some down levels, 3 vs 1 and had some fun. Took out both down levels and a weak ranger. Got zerged after, but other then that all my fights were pretty lame.

I am playing ranger in wvw same as I would pvp, except trying to survive and use my surroundings in wvw. I was quite shocked at how different wvw was from pvp. I am confused as to why people think ranger is good in wvw…. but as I said what spec are you using that’s so amazing?

I run a variant of a build posted by Xorus. Here is what I have been running: http://tinyurl.com/lv8ukv3

I will swap out malicious training in MM for Keen Edge, and I’ll move the BM traits around a bit (for reduction on F2 and pet skills), depending on my mood.

This does very well roaming—I may get around to posting a video. You can burst down classes without heavy condition removal. If they do have good removal, you can still kill them by stacking more conditions than they can remove. But if an opponent is running condition duration reduction, and heave condition removal, it can be a looonggg fight.

It plays well against mesmers, and thieves. Good engineers can be a real problem, and necros can be dangerous as well. But this seems to stand up to any class I’ve met roaming. That said, if you are dueling at a fight club you are probably fighting good players, so I would expect the win rate to be lower than obtained during roaming/random encounters.

I didn’t type that so you’re quoting the wrong person..

Well I wasn’t saying thieves were hard, I was just explaining a class’s ability to pressure you, thus taking you out of the battle. Which is effective and happens quite a bit. Nobody is crying about thieves or ‘blablablaing’ about thieves. It is what it is and against a good comp group you’re going to run into that, it’ll either be a warrior or a thief. Simply taking you out of the battle is enough, whether they kill your or not isn’t the point.

Interesting but no survivability lol, all it takes it sicking one thief from their group to kill/attack you and there goes your role in the group – they don’t even need to kill you, that’s the thing , by simply giving you pressure, your job is useless now and you’re no longer pegging important players in the group you’re fighting as you’re preoccupied by the thief and now will need your teammates or atleast one more teammate to pull back and help you as you’re glass and if you get even hit once by a glass thief you’re almost dead (which takes now 2-3 people out of the picture in your entire group, allowing the group you’d be fighting to roll over your frontline). Just confused on how this could even be considered in a competent and top tier roaming group build. Does look fun for kittens and giggles though as I’ve always been a fan of high crit numbers and why I like that high crit maul build as well.

Zenith.7301:

Ryan.8367:

Zenith.7301:

Ryan.8367:

Zenith.7301:

Daemon.4295:

Zenith.7301:

Diehard.1432:

How does it fare against good thief? Do we have a chance to withstand their crits before they bleed/burn to death?

Shadow Arts thieves won’t die to traps due to how much cleanse they have.

S/D thieves will just evade all over them with flanking spam.

How do you evade something you can’t see? If they trigger a stack of poison, flame, and spike the odds are already tipped well in your favor, even if they cleanse immediately. You can drop the next round of traps at or around your feet once they get in your face, so they have to sit through three more traps (remember, they pulse) plus your torch bonfire to melee you. In the meantime, you have your two sword evades plus dodges to burn their initiative and avoid damage, high toughness from rabid gear, and support from your pet, whichever you may have chosen. I really don’t find thieves problematic in comparison to other classes, at least in sPvP.

I can pretty much in my spec chain 6 flanking>larcenous combos. When each of those is still critting1.8-2k toughness people for at least 3-4k, you ain’t going to survive it. You can hold on to larcenous when they’ve wasted their sword skills.

Force them to waste traps, shadow return back, then go back in. Just steady pressure.

You forget about good use of canine cc and timed evasion skills for someone who knows what to dodge from a thief class.

You mean hat random dog leap on my thief who gets 3 dodges baseline from feline grace, has sigils of energy on both his weaponsets, and gets a 10 sec vigor (which stacks with feline grace, unlike ranger endurance regen trait) on a short 15 sec cd heal that also evades?

Good job explaining how op your class is defensively while maintaining high crit burst but besides all that glorious stuff you explained , I’d still probably beat you in a duel which is the bad part. :*(

It is not my class. It’s an alt I adopted after I’ve waited for 10 months for them to fix my ranger so I don’t have to run a toughness condition set with sword mainhand to just not be a free kill.

The difference between thief and BM is my thief is actually useful when you enter a team fight. I’m cleaving people with 3-4k just from sword autoattacks, I can strip bunkers clean of boons for my team really quickly, or I can harass their backline.

BM ranger was only really good for roaming, maybe duels (there were still classes you could not kill, like a good condi engineer with immunity to conditions at 25% trait). it was already crap in team fights. It was already crap on any build for dungeons. And yet because of spvp tears they took a sledgehammer to the awful pets.

So, I just got on with the program and instead of hoping for a development epiphany, just switched characters even after all the gold I’ve invested on my Ranger. Now with my thief I run dungeons pretty happily, I roam amazingly, I can do team fights, and it’s miles away from my experience on the ranger. If I get bored of thief for wvw team fights I just switch to my necro and voila suddenly I’m the best team class around or I can switch to my staff ele or guardian.

Either way, the point is you’ll wait longer for the ranger to be fixed than you’ll wait just getting other toons to 80 and gearing them up.

I don’t do groups, i dont do dungeons, so I guess none of this applies to me. I still own people regularly in duels/roaming, but that’s also maybe because I usually only duel against top players of their class and practice heavily with it and have since the beginning of the game. So yea, we all have our ways of playing and I chipper up when I see a thief running up on me thinking I’ll be an easy meal and then before he knows it he’s destroyed , all the same in duels. Know what to dodge and when to dodge and count initiative/stealth times while interrupting initiative gains and voila, the thief class just became an easy opponent. Same with any other, but that’s not a knock on thieves or any other class for that matter, that’s a shout out to the very easy pvp implementation Anet has provided.

I have a staff/dd ele as well and no question is the staff ele better in group/zerg play, thief as well , mesmer as well (veil, feedback, mass invis, portal, gs knockbacks, etc). I just like ranger more for my style of play.

Zenith.7301:

Ryan.8367:

Zenith.7301:

Daemon.4295:

Zenith.7301:

Diehard.1432:

How does it fare against good thief? Do we have a chance to withstand their crits before they bleed/burn to death?

Shadow Arts thieves won’t die to traps due to how much cleanse they have.

S/D thieves will just evade all over them with flanking spam.

How do you evade something you can’t see? If they trigger a stack of poison, flame, and spike the odds are already tipped well in your favor, even if they cleanse immediately. You can drop the next round of traps at or around your feet once they get in your face, so they have to sit through three more traps (remember, they pulse) plus your torch bonfire to melee you. In the meantime, you have your two sword evades plus dodges to burn their initiative and avoid damage, high toughness from rabid gear, and support from your pet, whichever you may have chosen. I really don’t find thieves problematic in comparison to other classes, at least in sPvP.

I can pretty much in my spec chain 6 flanking>larcenous combos. When each of those is still critting1.8-2k toughness people for at least 3-4k, you ain’t going to survive it. You can hold on to larcenous when they’ve wasted their sword skills.

Force them to waste traps, shadow return back, then go back in. Just steady pressure.

You forget about good use of canine cc and timed evasion skills for someone who knows what to dodge from a thief class.

You mean hat random dog leap on my thief who gets 3 dodges baseline from feline grace, has sigils of energy on both his weaponsets, and gets a 10 sec vigor (which stacks with feline grace, unlike ranger endurance regen trait) on a short 15 sec cd heal that also evades?

Good job explaining how op your class is defensively while maintaining high crit burst but besides all that glorious stuff you explained , I’d still probably beat you in a duel which is the bad part. :*(

Zenith.7301:

Daemon.4295:

Zenith.7301:

Diehard.1432:

How does it fare against good thief? Do we have a chance to withstand their crits before they bleed/burn to death?

Shadow Arts thieves won’t die to traps due to how much cleanse they have.

S/D thieves will just evade all over them with flanking spam.

How do you evade something you can’t see? If they trigger a stack of poison, flame, and spike the odds are already tipped well in your favor, even if they cleanse immediately. You can drop the next round of traps at or around your feet once they get in your face, so they have to sit through three more traps (remember, they pulse) plus your torch bonfire to melee you. In the meantime, you have your two sword evades plus dodges to burn their initiative and avoid damage, high toughness from rabid gear, and support from your pet, whichever you may have chosen. I really don’t find thieves problematic in comparison to other classes, at least in sPvP.

I can pretty much in my spec chain 6 flanking>larcenous combos. When each of those is still critting1.8-2k toughness people for at least 3-4k, you ain’t going to survive it. You can hold on to larcenous when they’ve wasted their sword skills.

Force them to waste traps, shadow return back, then go back in. Just steady pressure.

You forget about good use of canine cc and timed evasion skills for someone who knows what to dodge from a thief class.

Einlanzer.1627:

Tuluum.9638:

McWolfy.5924:

not too loud buddy… GS nerf inc :p

I know this was put as a joke, and many will take it as a joke.. but consider this…

To make LB more viable, SB was nerfed. Dont like how LB and GS compare? How do you think they are going to handle that?

hides his ranger in a cave

Not exactly, to make LB more viable, it was buffed and given a more distinctive role. SB took a range hit to allow for this but also received some damage buffs.

A nuisance for people who really liked sniping with the Shortbow perhaps, but that was never whakittens intention was and this is really how it should have been from the beginning.

If you really want to be the game’s best archer- you are, you are the only class that can slot 2 different bows with different skills and swap between them based on tactical need.

They nerfed range on a good weapon meant for small skirmish / dueling to make a completely 100% zerg weapon more appealing. You can’t even compare the weapons and the styles used to play those weapons which shows you the lack of direction in the anet development team. The damage buffs you speak of on the shortbow are absolutely nothing substantial as the utilities that were buffed were more CC oriented than dmg oriented to begin with and are used for such, if they buffed the auto on shortbow – it would be a different story. I’m not complaining about the range of shortbow but just stating the obvious.

Also, you can buff the dmg on longbow all you want, but until the velocity mechanics are fixed, it’s absolutely meaningless and won’t be used by anybody except people who are delusional enough to take it out into a 1on1 combat situation or go zerg with it.

nagymbear.5280:

I must admit I don’t run a lonbow spec, but isn’t longbow autoattack the best dps on a longbow at 1000+ range? So what else do they have with the longbow apart from autoattack. They shouldn’t be using the knockback, and from what I’ve read previously rapid fire is a decrease in dps. They can pop #5 every 25 secs or so.

Longbow isn’t usually used by good players because a couple reasons. The dmg doesn’t benefit for the lack of evasion/defensive aspects you get from shortbow, only range, which is easily countered by most classes in WvW.

1. is just bad
2. is fairly decent but again, if you’re running a power longbow you’re just gonna get mowed down by a sustain build with condition stacking anyway so it’s kind of irrelevant.
3. lol
4. is easily countered by stability
5. all it takes is an interrupt, thats it , you just put that on a cd and lost its full benefit. doing this in a 1on1 also makes you very susceptible to easy burst attacks, think of it like the churning earth ele skill. When they do that, your immediate reaction would be interrupt or just burst while they’re doing it and wait to dodge the actual attack. Why do you have to worry about snare at that moment in time when they’re standing still themselves? It’s just a bad utility in general except for zerg play.

In short, equip longbow if you’re up in a keep defending or you’re taking a keep with alot of people defending the keep up top , barrage becomes most effective and you can peg people more from range without having to worry about taking a plethora of aoe dmg doing it.

It’s a zerg weapon at best and has no place in a 1on1 situation at all. This is also why rangers are mad that shortbow range got nerfed simply to make longbow more appealing. They basically nerfed a good 1on1 weapon’s range to make a zerg weapon more appealing.

If you’re not relying on pet dps then you need to use canines so you can rely on CC or spiders for the immobs and poison. Bear provides a weakness but that is cleared by most good players within 2-3 seconds AT MOST – once that is gone, your pet is absolutely meaningless and literally just fodder, and it’s on a 45 sec CD I believe, you’re much better getting a fear off with a 45 sec cd and also is followed by a knockdown which is a high dmg atk from canine pet.

SWaG will gladly duel ya ;D

I’ve had some great duels with TC/SoS at the southern area of BL’s while solo roaming, good stuff

Yea don’t ever mention Chopps in a PvP/WvW discussion. You immediately lose me and you immediately lose most good rangers. He does nothing but dungeons. The fact that he even comments on PvP/WvW kitten when he’s even said he usually does mostly dungeons himself leads me to the fact he just bases alot of his ranger experience on fighting scripted mobs in dungeons, which has no place or say in WvW/PvP fighting real and good players at that so it ends up look like trolling to most good players when he actually sincerely means it.

Stormleaf.1769:

Exocet.7306:

Tired of what if you don´t understand what you read…

Try again, here it is from the official website.

Ranger
Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.

“Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself.”
Nothing about this statement means ‘bow only!’. All of these things benefit a melee weapon just as much as a ranged weapon.

“Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows.”
Being ‘capable’ of killing people with a bow does not mean that’s the only thing they’re capable of. And by the way: they are unparalleled archers compared to other classes in the game, because they can use both long bows and short bows. That’s twice as many bow options as any other class. Tada! Unparalleled.

“With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.”
Applying your logic with the previous sentence to this one: any bow ranger that doesn’t use traps or nature spirits isn’t a true ranger either, so shame on them, am I right? Oh, and I’m pretty sure ‘adapting to any situation’ means they can handle using a melee weapon well.

1. “Nothing about this statement means ‘bow only!’. All of these things benefit a melee weapon just as much as a ranged weapon.”

Why are people trying to attribute class descriptions into a PvP/WvW fighting scenario, especially this one?

2. “Being ‘capable’ of killing people with a bow does not mean that’s the only thing they’re capable of. And by the way: they are unparalleled archers compared to other classes in the game, because they can use both long bows and short bows. That’s twice as many bow options as any other class. Tada! Unparalleled.”

Good job trying to spin your way out of that. Again, class descriptions should be pointless to the profession anyway. But I appreciate your very poor politician-like response on a pointless matter. You should be a politician though.

3. “Applying your logic with the previous sentence to this one: any bow ranger that doesn’t use traps or nature spirits isn’t a true ranger either, so shame on them, am I right? Oh, and I’m pretty sure ‘adapting to any situation’ means they can handle using a melee weapon well.”

Those are all utilities: Traps, Nature Spirits , etc – They’re utilities to adapt to the “unparalleled archers” that’s being described in this class description. Again, people take this class description bullkitten way too seriously. If by your very logic that we can adapt to any situation, we’d then have access to every weapon in the game since we’d be able to adapt to any situation, right? Wrong, we have what’s programmed for us by real programmers that don’t give a kitten about a class description in a wiki, neither should you or the person you’re responding to.

Jesus christ…. This is why most rangers are just bad =(

Tricare.2946:

Ryan.8367:

Your arguing about a build that is proven to win 1v1 fights. The BM bunker build is a roaming build. Played right it can win 99% of 1v1 fights and 1v2 fights. Yes I know some fights will not end, I even ran into a ele where we fought for 5 min then we both kinda stopped and went different ways, knowing it wouldn’t end.

If you’re so brilliant and know everything, enlighten us with what you know is better than the BM bunker build for roaming?

Christ I never said I was brilliant, I just know people who have faced insanely bunker regen rangers and know counters to it, namely d/d eles , engis and guardians when they’re well played. Don’t get all defensive about it.

For roaming:

Stop stacking so much healing for one, and toughness, you don’t need it. It’s just training wheels and has a large diminishing return after about 1800 toughness better to up your health pool for EHP. Better to use most of that anyway for direct dmg, again, remember your survivability was buffed this patch in NM line and you got a 5% dmg boost above 90%. You don’t need all of that padded survivability.

700 healing is a good number to be at IF you wanted to have a healing build. You honestly don’t need any more than that, the rest is just overkill and making up for your lack of dodging important attacks. If you wanna faceroll and run through kitten, so be it, you’ll have no offensive power other than trying to string conditions together on a player, which again, works against baddies but not people who have played against condition classes before. Remember, there’s classes much better at applying conditions you , namely engis and people practice duel with them all the time and learn ways to counter condition stringing/embedding. If you think otherwise then you obviously haven’t dueled as much as I have.

The reason why I don’t like builds like this is because it promotes bad playing, it’s a build unto which it’s quite literally the build and not you, everything is auto pilot. I’ve always had the same feeling against builds like super high bunker condi thieves , bunker phantasm mesmers. They’re just annoying and don’t really do anything against most good players.

Again, I’m referring to 1on1s with top players of their class with builds that aren’t even high bunker at all they’re actually running mostly offensive gear w/ barely any survivable – if they mess up they will die but they also are next to nearly unstoppable in 1on1’s when they play right (Koroshi engi , Ukune engi, Amyrlin Serane elementalist, Twitchy Toes mesmer , Msandman mesmer, Incarnadyne thief , Aynkou guardian, Karlesi ranger, etc ) – most of these guys don’t even run full survivability because they’re just good at dodging and using their skills and know what needs to be dodged and use the right utilities when they need to be used.

BM / High regen bunker does nothing but promote bad playstyle as you can eat a plethora of attacks and it doesn’t matter because your auto-pilot stats/regen are taking care of it for you – the caveat is a tradeoff of virtually no dmg in either one end of the spectrum of offensive play whether it be direct dmg or conditions – in this build’s case it’s clearly direct dmg. People get so defensive when they get called out on the truth but let’s be honest here, if you were getting trolled by a thief with full bunker on that cleared numerous condi on invis that can never die and invis’s constantly – would you call him good or utilizing an OP build to his advantage? You’d probably call him annoying/utilizing an OP build to his advantage unto which he never dies. Can that same thief really kill anybody who’s extremely good? Absolutely not he’d probably just stalemate or lose against a good player who understands him but against baddies? Absolutely yes he can kill them. It’s the nature of this game’s playstyle and WvW bunker is on steroids.

Doug.9628:

Ryan.8367:

Hax.8701:

Ryan.8367:

Well if it’s good in groups than that means it is good , where you’re getting carried by everyone else.

1on1 its kitten though , just sayin , don’t need to get mad at me because the truth hurts. I like how you try to act like this is the baddest build out therre and then get demolished with a logical response on why you wouldn’t win against certain classes, then go on to say ‘not everythings 1on1 bro!’ after trying to brag about beating some random trash d/d ele in a duel after advertising your build as a roaming 1on1 build. cool story bro

Christ dude… I’ve been running the same build as Hyjaxx and Faux since Ebay was fighting us. Faux (Menorah) even helped me with questions I had pertaining to the build. I have also had the privilege of dueling a lot of people. The build works wonders in WvW and have had a personal 5+ minute fight with a bunker guardian which I eventually killed. It’s about how you play the build. Having a good build doesn’t automatically make you great. If you really want to wave your kitten around, schedule a PvP duel. Stop dissing a build because you have some friends that can beat people with it.

5+ minute fight, wooooooooo! I’ve never had those with a bunker build before. get the kitten outta here. Listen, boring the person you’re fighting to death doesn’t constitute a good build. Dueling with bunker is about the most boring kittening thing you could do and easiest. Get real.

Hey guys, i have 1,000+ healing with 2k+ toughness, i can eat alot of kitten and live through it and fight for 5-10minutes. Whooptee kittening doo.

Take your training wheels build and get the kitten outta here

These kids get all bent out of shape because the reality is you don’t provide a condi pressure to a good d/d ele and wanna then duel me like I’m gonna give these kids running this training wheels kitten the time of day. You’re just gonna heal through everything I do anyway, and if i RAN the same kitten bunker kitten setup as you , it would just stalemate, so whats the kittening point? That’s the problem when you run sissy kitten builds like full regen bunker with ridiculous healing power, you get lots of stalemates and 10 minute fights, not really that fun yo. The saddest thing is they think this kitten is something new, dawg I was running bunker like this and dueling back in september of 2012 , I stopped doing it cuz limbo 20 minute fights get old. its simple to beat bad kids, but against good players you’ll stalemate or die. that’s the reality with the build you got here. Again, sorry if the truth hurts.

I don’t understand. You’re saying that a good d/d ele running a build that counters this one will win. No kitten? I also don’t understand what constitutes a good build to you. The winner in any pvp scenario is the last one standing. Why you’d knock a build that is designed to do just that is beyond me. I guess guarding a node in spvp with the potential to beat other players 1v1 and hold it’s own vs multiple until help arrives is useless? Not sure what to gather from your posts “dawg”. Is a good build determined solely by it’s burst potential?

You also commented earlier on crit dmg/chance and how this build is bad because it has little to none of either, but it’s a condition build that relies on neither.

I dunno what to say man, #yolo I guess

And then I said against a condi cleansing class where the person is good at doing it, completely counters this build. Do you not read what I write or you just circle jerking for the fun of it?

Listen, it’s quite simple… When you run 1,000+ healing, 2k+ toughness with 20k hp, you quite literally can eat just about anything somebody dishes out without worrying about having to deal with it and can live to tell it. That means you’re running a build that holds your hand for you, it doesn’t mean you’re good at all and in duels they’re boring as kitten because most duels you run bunker. The reason why a well played d/d ele counters this is because they have much better cleansing than the rate you apply condi, hence why I mentioned 0% crit chance and 4% crit dmg , because you got no dmg to backup the cleansing of your conditions to win the fight, it’ll just stalemate or you’ll lose – that’s just a given and they also have much higher dmg output. The issue is you guys run 1,000 healing with 3-4 regens and 2k toughness and 20khp to counter being able to just eat kitten without learning and actually dodging kitten. That’s why you guys don’t run anything lower than that though because if you did, that means you’d have to actually dodge important attacks instead of running through them, right?

AlphaK.9486:

I Thought it was lag/rubberbanding since no one else had been reporting it. At least I know I’m not crazy now, lol.

Time to submit this as a bug.

And time to wait 8 months for it to get fixed.

You fought “A” d/d ele. I play best of their class both in pvp and wvw. Don’t get me started on your little fight you had with one d/d elementalist. No offense, you won’t win against a well played d/d ele like amyrlin serane as a ranger in WvW, no matter what build you put against it.

Like I said, it’s a shame we’re not facing DH as I could line up 10 people to duel you , and it’ll end with you coming back to the forums and saying a couple things along the lines of ‘this build won’t work in 1on1 situations with good players’. I hate to burst this little bubble you got where you’re fighting kitten roamers and calling the build good… It’s the same with faux’s build , all survivability no damage against someone who can cleanse well. You take the conditions out of the picture, you got nothing. The only class that can provide a GOOD d/d ele with condi pressure CONSISTENTLY is an engineer anmd MAYBE just MAYBE a necro now, but not ranger. Sorry =(

Things you need to beat a truly good d/d ele and not the trash you played against in WvW:

1. Extreme burst – Shatter mesmer burst/Phantasm hybrid burst with condition duration for immobs
2. Extreme Condi pressure w/ immobs – Any good engi with a condi build

0% crit dmg , 4% crit chance

Good luck against a good d/d ele , good high bunker guardian specced in condi removal. I wish I was facing DH right now, I have 10 people I know who would make you feel REALLY bad about your build and make ya just wanna stop working on it entirely.

Good try though , just won’t work against good players with condi removal. You’ll just stalemate with them or they’ll widdle you down over time and end up winning.

It’ll do well against roamers though.

I don’t think people are upset about the range of shortbow, it’s more so the current state of the longbow itself. It’s quite useless if you 1on1/do any group player as you’re a sitting duck with the weapon. Try to use #4 on a target with stability (which if you’re playing against a team with guardian they’ll proc it for them and bum rush the ranger) and you will find yourself with a wasted utility, that means you have to swap weapons, taking the entire point of using the weapon away to swap to sword or a set with evasion to counter being attacked by multiple targets..

I think actions speak louder than words and the mere fact I decimated literally every ranger , even good ones who were testing out the longbow changes can speak for itself. I was using shortbow by the way. It’s just a kittenty weapon lol , and I applaud rangers for being brave enough to roam with that kitten, it was hilarious how bad I was simply destroying them.

It’s people are now forced to use a kittenty weapon to compensate for a range loss when the original weapon that’s meant for long range is crap at long range as you can STILL strafe the arrows from distance.. It’s unfortunate but that IS the way it is and couple that with being able to still square strafe and avoid the pet with swiftness on you’re bypassing essentially a majority of the ranger’s damage output.

I don’t think people would even mind shortbow being 900 range IF longbow was a viable weapon with an evasion on it but it’s simply not even with these buffs from last patch, unless you’re of course sitting in a zerg, then any weapon the ranger has short of direct melee could be used as you’re getting carried by a zerg moreso than bringing unique utility to the fight. If you think a 1sec increase on barrage is gonna help bring some utility to zerg/big group fight, you are just selling yourself short and being downright delusional.

I myself don’t care either way, I still use shortbow as 900 range is fine with me as I was always within that range using shortbow anyway, but I can see why people who zerg can be upset being forced into this direction of using longbow. It’s just not as viable of a weapon.

I wish people would also stop comparing GW1 ranger to GW2 , they’re just 2 different games. If devs wanted gw2 rangers in the direction of gw1 rangers, they would BE gw1 rangers, but they’re not so stop that, please.

edit: I’ll also add to this that by losing 300 range, you ARE essentially losing DPS if you’re trying to shoot from the 900-1200 range, that IS by it’s very right a DPS loss from what it was previously , so yes there is a damage loss from the range reduction and no gain on auto. You can go further into a fight, but you’re also more at risk for taking aoe dmg and being focused on and what made rangers unique is pegging enemies from a distance (one of the only unique utility we can provide) and being away from the fight means in order to get to the ranger you pull off enemy group players towards you , separating the group , it’s more of a fighting playstyle than anything and worked nicely in separating the boon generators from the damage dealers in the enemy group. That was substantially hindered with a nerfto shortbow range and made it much easier to bring us out of the equation in group fights/zerg fights, now we have to use a longbow which is much worse in group fights and also provides no defensive mechancis whatsoever besides a knockback which doesn’t work when said enemy has stability which they usually will if they know you have knockback available (by the way im referring to good players, not roaming trash)..

Zenith.7301:

Xsorus.2507:

People who think BM Rangers relied entirely on Pets for damage don’t understand the spec.

I’ve got videos of me using all different kinds of pets, from Cats/Drakes/Pigs/Dogs/Devours/Spiders/Birds

Yes some pets were obviously better then others..But you could still kill people fairly easily with most pets because the power of BM Bunker is the ability to apply a crap ton of conditions (and a lot of different ones) onto the target very quickly and consistently. The Pet damage is just icing.

BM Bunker is still viable after the patch, Only we have even less choices now then before….While every other Ranger build has also eaten a nerf because these pets were gutted.

Anyone who thinks this patch is fine needs to get their head examined.

I think there will be a bunker trapper hybrid now.

I’ll try 30 WS/30 skirmishing for traps, and then run the same weaponsets, no shortbow, and the other 10 points I throw on NM.

For utilities I’ll try Signet of Renewal, Spike Trap, and Serpent Trap or Frost Trap. Frost Trap is actually very useful against a thief as even with shadow Arts I’ll have bleeding, poison, burning, and chill and weakness layered on top of each other.

I’ll take most likely one of the woves still for the CC and then a raven/eagle.

With frost trap I can leap for a frost aura and flame aura, should be pretty good against melee builds.

These kinds of builds have been out for a long time now. Nothing new is about them and to think this patch would steer them into that direction is stupid. BM is still as viable you just need to work more for the kill, get over it.

Criminal.5627:

Ryan.8367:

The BM ranger tears are quite delicious I must admit

what do you mean BM rangers? nerfs were across the board with all rangers, no matter your spec the pets you had unless you used only spiders are doing less dmg then they were previously.

The bm ranger build consisted of high healing/tank and maxed survivability with high evasion and relied more on the pet than anything while you danced around like a kitten poking people with miniscule damage. Most of the time resulting in a stalemate against a good player or facerolling baddies who attempted to try to counter it.

The faceroll spec got hit most out of em all and peeps that use pets for cc not dmg saw little to no change. I started using pets strictly for cc , again back in september when i realized anet had no direction/dedication to fixing the pet ai.

My only thing is the WAY they nerfed the pets, its funny in order to squash one bm bunker build they nerf pets across the board, sucks for people that relied heavily on them for damage – but then again it’s anet… I’m not really surprised.

There’s 2 builds you have to thank for this nerf , all the kittenty BM bunker rangers who made vids and the op point bunker build in PvP.

Now rangers have to actually work for the kill.

Edit: The range on shortbow is miniscule at best… I mean seriously, as a shortbow skirmish ranger you’re most likely within 900 ranger anyway. I saw little to no change fighting tonight vs when I’ve dueled before. It’s seriously not that big of a deal, yea you can’t chase far enough anymore but it’s still verrrrry minor.

The BM ranger tears are quite delicious I must admit

Faux Sheaux.6179:

Chopps.5047:

Ryan.8367:

Chopps.5047:

@Ryan

Re-read the patch notes, beastmaster’s might for ranger might stacking, just got 3 times better. Also, in dungeons, frost spirit is an adept 7% group dps increase and spotter is 150 precision now to party, which is nice for people who aren’t running signets. Also, leaps for flame aura and rampage as one still exist, as they were the default might stacking mechanisms before (as well as stalker). No one took beastmaster’s might before.

If you seriously think 2 extra might every 60-120 seconds is gonna make a game changing difference, not to mention the fact you’re going 20 into Marksman which is horrid for any 1on1 spec, then you are really selling yourself short. Power has such a bad diminishing return for ranger it’s not even funny. Just go 0/30/30/10/0 w/ knights and you’ll have more sustained damage and tank across the board than any power based build spec.

Are we playig the same game? Signet cooldowns aren’t 120 seconds. Besides, I was talking wvw and dungeons there. You didn’t read the notes and you didn’t read my message I’m starting to wonder if you didn’t pay attention to anything about rangers over the last year.

First of all, I never mentioned 1v1 because it’s not a standard gametype. There are only a couple kinds of real 1v1 in this game:

• 1v1 on point
• 1v1 off point

The gvg and all the wvw 1v1 videos (sorry, Xsorsus, I do feel this way) are not really that interesting from a competitive point of view. So to me, your ideal 1v1 deathmatch is irrelevent. But let’s make it relevant for a moment. How many of you lost 1v1 fights in wvw before using regen/apothecary? Almost never? And would you all consider yourselves to be great players? I certainly wouldn’t call myself that and I won those fights too. Shouldn’t a 1v1 be skill dependent as opposed to build dependent? Yes! But it’s a team game built around capturing objectives so the 1v1 isn’t balanced and tested like a Halo or a Starcraft. Those are 1v1 games. This is a 5v5 game. Where’s the 5v5 guild vs guild battles? Why is it 1v1 or 20v20? And then, without satisfactory answers to these questions, we wonder why tpvp’ers make fun of us pve’ers. I’m just saying—1v1 and 20v20 require less skill than 5v5 which itself requires less skill than 5v5 plus objectives.

This is all very clear and we’ve known it since day 1.

This is actually one of the reasons I stopped making WvW videos. I stopped running my own build almost three weeks ago as well. Teamwork is much more difficult and skill-oriented than running around with a bunch of random red names who like to wear bag tonics.

The teamwork stuff is where the real interesting elements of GW2 are. Hopefully, despite all the bad things this patch did, it will allow us to be of more use in a group. I’ve already got a build that’s been accepted into my guild’s zerg-busting unit which was unthinkable before. So while a lot of rangers are angry at what has happened as a result to the “range” element of our class, we at least got one worth-while build (hopefully more will emerge as well) that can be used with a group.

I want to think of it as a starting point. It’s been 9 months, and this is our first chance. Build on this ANet, don’t leave us alone again without any viable alternatives to run. Stagnation is death.

We know about teamwork as we destroyed GH/GF when they roamed with 30+ constantly with SWaG and we were running all but 10-15 people in the group. When you get past 10+ in vs in WvW it becomes more aoe damage and CC on the spot moreso than any individual skill utility. It’s pointless as you’re just spamming at that point.

I’m talking about 1on1 situations though and the ranger took a huge hit if we even decide to go roam in WvW.

Legacy.7360:

Doopslayer.2304:

Legacy.7360:

You’re living a fantasy if you think the current state of Rangers was ok. After seeing the supposedly leaked Patch Notes, you go on a QQ spree.

This FOTM no skill class needed to be toned down.

If these Patch Notes are legit, we’ll ONLY continue to see skilled rangers continue to play and the kiddo’s running Mes or something.

Autoattacking/petcarryme builds are in for a treat.

Enjoy the backseat.

seeing as beastmaster builds have never been buffed since launch, you might just want to realize that a lot the people that moved to ranger from other classes are just fotm hoppers. Beastmastery hasnt changed, ranger has never been OP, other classes have been nerfed to our level, which means we have to be nerfed again!

FOTM Hoppers, I’ll take that. I’m merely speaking on behalf of the PvP community. Can be brain dead while your pet does all the work and they still are able to achieve Top Spot Positions.

We’ll be seeing more Necro/Warrior “Hoppers” come next week I’m sure.

Looks like a guardian is kitten because his op bunker spec got stomped by a ranger’s op bunker spec in PvP (or else he wouldn’t be showing off the Maurader tag part in the sig). It’s ok bud, because of crybabies like you every ranger build in every area of the game just saw a nerf when it was only warranted in PvP. It’s ok , you can go back to binding keys to z,x,c,v,b,n,m and rolling your face across the keyboard to bunker hold mid-points again. Everything is alright now.

Faux Sheaux is right here and it’s really silly because we get penalized FOR being pushed into such a bunker direction to even be competitive but we have to work with what we got regardless of being nerfed FOR using the only builds we got.

Chopps.5047:

Ryan.8367:

Chopps.5047:

@Ryan

Re-read the patch notes, beastmaster’s might for ranger might stacking, just got 3 times better. Also, in dungeons, frost spirit is an adept 7% group dps increase and spotter is 150 precision now to party, which is nice for people who aren’t running signets. Also, leaps for flame aura and rampage as one still exist, as they were the default might stacking mechanisms before (as well as stalker). No one took beastmaster’s might before.

If you seriously think 2 extra might every 60-120 seconds is gonna make a game changing difference, not to mention the fact you’re going 20 into Marksman which is horrid for any 1on1 spec, then you are really selling yourself short. Power has such a bad diminishing return for ranger it’s not even funny. Just go 0/30/30/10/0 w/ knights and you’ll have more sustained damage and tank across the board than any power based build spec.

Are we playig the same game? Signet cooldowns aren’t 120 seconds. Besides, I was talking wvw and dungeons there. You didn’t read the notes and you didn’t read my message I’m starting to wonder if you didn’t pay attention to anything about rangers over the last year.

First of all, I never mentioned 1v1 because it’s not a standard gametype. There are only a couple kinds of real 1v1 in this game:

• 1v1 on point
• 1v1 off point

The gvg and all the wvw 1v1 videos (sorry, Xsorsus, I do feel this way) are not really that interesting from a competitive point of view. So to me, your ideal 1v1 deathmatch is irrelevent. But let’s make it relevant for a moment. How many of you lost 1v1 fights in wvw before using regen/apothecary? Almost never? And would you all consider yourselves to be great players? I certainly wouldn’t call myself that and I won those fights too. Shouldn’t a 1v1 be skill dependent as opposed to build dependent? Yes! But it’s a team game built around capturing objectives so the 1v1 isn’t balanced and tested like a Halo or a Starcraft. Those are 1v1 games. This is a 5v5 game. Where’s the 5v5 guild vs guild battles? Why is it 1v1 or 20v20? And then, without satisfactory answers to these questions, we wonder why tpvp’ers make fun of us pve’ers. I’m just saying—1v1 and 20v20 require less skill than 5v5 which itself requires less skill than 5v5 plus objectives.

This is all very clear and we’ve known it since day 1.

My point is that 3 might over such a long duration is useless and not game changing to a power build at all, besides, you’re getting might from other classes in WvW zergs and dungeons anyway. You don’t even need to run that trait and you probably wouldn’t , you’d probably run spotter instead.

“The gvg and all the wvw 1v1 videos (sorry, Xsorsus, I do feel this way) are not really that interesting from a competitive point of view.”

But spamming autos on dungeon mobs is, cool story bro….

Faux Sheaux.6179:

Ryan.8367:

You already got close to perma regen long before this horrible trait was put into place. It’s kittening useless, you’re gonna lose so much damage getting 10seconds more of regen by going 30 deep into NM. It’s not even worth it really, and shouts are terrible as it is. Nothing but more fodder for trolly bunker specs that won’t be able to kill kitten in 1on1s.

I want more offensive based specs to arise, yet these trash rangers wanna be able to get more regen / protection so they can eat more kitten and not dodge important things effectively.

Or you can switch from the perma regen methods you were using before to build upon this perma regen and swiftness.

Stice showed some pretty cool ways you can increase damage by a good amount while still keeping a lot of the boons.

You do have a good point, but you’re weighing out the loss of dps between x6 dwayna switch to more offensive runes or not going 30 in skirmishing anymore. You need 30 in WS for any ranger build unless you’re with a zerg. You do have a good point though I guess it’s time to start testing out new mixtures.

I can get 1500 power , 1300 condi, 2150 tough, 300healing power, 20k health, 44% crit chance, 51% crit dmg in WvW with my current build with 3 regens running in 0/30/30/10/0

I’ve ran numerous boon stacking builds I actually did it for about 2 months straight and also found you can double stack boons if they’re aoe effects to your pet (x4 pack runes, x2 altruism) but even then it’s more of a charge up factor. You’re spending more time managing those boons instead of being offensive and defensive. It just seems to be at an overall loss in the long run. They’re decent builds but just way toooo much micro for what it’s ultimately worth.

But i dont know, maybe i just suck at microing that sort of meta and need practice with it, who knows.

Chopps.5047:

@Ryan

Re-read the patch notes, beastmaster’s might for ranger might stacking, just got 3 times better. Also, in dungeons, frost spirit is an adept 7% group dps increase and spotter is 150 precision now to party, which is nice for people who aren’t running signets. Also, leaps for flame aura and rampage as one still exist, as they were the default might stacking mechanisms before (as well as stalker). No one took beastmaster’s might before.

If you seriously think 2 extra might every 60-120 seconds is gonna make a game changing difference, not to mention the fact you’re going 20 into Marksman which is horrid for any 1on1 spec, then you are really selling yourself short. Power has such a bad diminishing return for ranger it’s not even funny. Just go 0/30/30/10/0 w/ knights and you’ll have more sustained damage and tank across the board than any power based build spec.

You already got close to perma regen long before this horrible trait was put into place. It’s kittening useless, you’re gonna lose so much damage getting 10seconds more of regen by going 30 deep into NM. It’s not even worth it really, and shouts are terrible as it is. Nothing but more fodder for trolly bunker specs that won’t be able to kill kitten in 1on1s.

I want more offensive based specs to arise, yet these trash rangers wanna be able to get more regen / protection so they can eat more kitten and not dodge important things effectively.

Chopps.5047:

They took some pet damage away and gave some damage back in the form of might stacking and weapon buffs. It’s a bit more in the player’s hands, now.

The only weapon nerf was a 900 range shortbow and that’s not really a big deal besides reducing the ability to pressure a point in spvp by 300 units. Shortbow actually got dps increases on a couple of the skill shots. It’s more DPS.

Spirits are looking a lot better, I mean spiritual knowledge is now a good adept trait. It was so painful to try and use spirits before because you needed the master’s trait to really make it worthwhile.

And sun spirit will get the blind off so much easier now. You’re doing more damage with both bows and a wvw shout build looks pretty good. I just can’t see how this is the disaster some of you make it out to be.

Also, I might add that many will start taking Enlargement as they experiment with nature magic line and will find their pet still doing spike damage when they need it the most. Just a thought.

No , we still have no might generation to us. Only our pet got more might generation, which will again be nice in PvP only where the pet is actually quite effective. WvW / PvE it will be the same but now they’ll do less damage. Besides it’s a misnomer anyway, in PvE / dungeons your pet was ALREADY getting might from your group anyway, the same in WvW if you zerg. Just dumb logic overall.

1 on 1 builds just got heavily penalized, including roaming rangers and most weren’t even running this stationary point bunker holder build as it blows in WvW. Let’s remember WvW isn’t confined to contesting points. It’s based on movement and mobility, something the pet is NOT good at keeping up with.

You don’t dumb down one build in one area of the entire game and nerf something every ranger build relies on regardless of build… No matter what build you run , you will be using your pet, whether it’s for CC , whether it’s for damage, you still suffer because of one OP point bunker hold build in sPvP only.

Daemon.4295:

Harsh nerfs, but to be honest they don’t seem unfair. Ranger pets just did too much damage and it really makes more sense for the longbow to fire from further range than the shortbow. Personally I might have just added a distance penalty to the shortbow at 900+ range though.

I wish people would gain some context on pet damage.

Pet damage was OP in sPVP/tPVP because of the style the BM build was being played. A bunker point holder against anyone means anybody fighting that ranger NEEDS to contest the point and take pet damage while fighting the ranger. This does not make the pet OP it just means the ranger found ONE build that caters to a playstyle in PvP that actually works.

Try that same kitten in WvW and you will find yourself at a loss for words at how bad that same style applied to WvW is. You will never kill anybody and you will find yourself dancing around the enemy moreso than anything. It’s no where near effective as in WvW because you don’t need to sit in a point and take pet damage but also because stat stacking doesn’t apply as nicely with one jewelry slot and using only runes in the armor. However in WvW most other classes gain a far better advantage than the ranger does in this regard.

2 different styles of gameplay , 2 different sets of equipment between the two yet that constitutes a nerf generally across the board. Makes no kittening sense at ALL.

I really wish people would stop kittening saying pets just did ridiculous damage when that kitten only applied in PvP where this nerf belonged, now ALL builds in ALL areas of the game got nerfed even people who run 0 in BM like me. Thanks devs.

THE Dentist.5960:

So thieves get major buffs and our pet bursts are nerfed. Bravo ANet.
<slowclap>

Not to mention now if people want to take advantage of the might stacking to pet, you just gave that thief free might and then some as pets can’t dodge yet another flaw in pet mechanic for the ranger.

Kuju.2153:

I’m sure a DEV will be happy to come here and explain why we’re the only class without a 1200 range attack option now. I can just picture the person coming up with the idea in said meeting and everybody nodding, yeah great idea X – you really thought that one all the way through, and considered the impact it will have across aboard to the Thief class. Excellent work! Do you think we need to compensate anywhere else for said change? No! Excellent response!

I hate being a sarcastic kitten.. but come on!

Uh… Rangers just got SB nerfs to 900 range across the board too, you’re not the only one suffering from this kitten and that is one of our main consistent damage weapons and it was one of our ONLY good weapons in WvW.

Cletus Van Damme.2795:

Ugh, pet nerf wasn’t just spvp.

You can thank one OP build being overused in PvP as a bunker point holder for nerfs across all areas of the game for rangers as pets in WvW and PvE are subpar at BEST.

Sigh…

This was a huge nerf patch for us basically while everyone got major buffs, even classes that didn’t need it.

Couple things are atleast decent:

Wilderness Survival
•Peak Strength: Damage bonus when the player’s health is above 90% has been increased from 5% to 10%.
•Stalker’s Strike: This skill no longer loses evade duration when traited with Off-Hand Training. It now strikes targets more reliably in melee. It now functions with Off-Hand Training in PvE.

Mother kittening sad overall though and doesn’t even compare to the buffs other classes got .

PistolWhip.2697:

@Deamham
Stop discussing balance in my thread.

@Eliam
You hit the nail on the head. This is in no way a priority bug but it does need to be in due time as any bug which harms gameplay.

@Mortis

Thieves are annoying yes, on my warrior I’ve had to chase down a thief for 30 minutes before killing him due to staying in stealth the whole time. But thats all they are most of the time if they do that, annoying.

A well played ranger can also kite you for days before you even dent him.

This however isn’t a bug, because Anet intended for this and it is working as intended. If you dislike stealth as a mechanic you can find a new game or create your on thread on the subject, not derail mine with your personal prejudices.

Anet cares what I or any player post as a bug, this is for Anet not for you. On the contrary, no one cares how hard it is for you to beat a thief.

@Ryan

I don’t like the current state of mesmers either, and I haven’t been rolled by a ranger I don’t see where I wrote that on my post? When I encounter a full bunker ranger on any class I play, I just walk away. If I need the cap point I call in support because they are that tanky if played well. If you can’t beat whatever, do the same and learn to counter it for next time. If I can beat thieves on my warrior you can beat them on a ranger.

To clarify this thread is to bring Anet’s attention on the bug, I really hate all this off topic discussion, if I hadn’t given thief as the class I was playing during the event this wouldn’t happen. It just says miles about people’s prejudice and anger towards a class when Anet made them all, and they obviously want all their classes to succeed more than me or you or the next player who has nothing but class bias.

Now for the last time, unless you wish to talk about the bug and the bug alone I request you steer clear of this thread.

I have no problem with thieves. I was making a point that pets have a horrid mechanice and they can’t dodge. So we’re essentially giving free might to them that they can steal if we even choose to take advantage of these ‘buffs’ being given to us.

I agree with you that the point bunker holder ranger build is op but you have to understand it’s ONE specific build that has a VERY specific purpose , I think most rangers agree. It’s silly, but it’s because of the playstyle involved not necessarily the class/pet itself but also because equipment mixture is very different from WvW where other classes benefit from it far greater in WvW than the ranger does giving it a much bigger disadvantage to say: Bunker Eles, High Condi Engis, Bunker High Healing Guardians (keep in mind im talking people who are good with those specs, alot of rangers will jump in here and disagree but they also just fighting roaming garbage, so there’s that). That very same style of build doesn’t compete at all near the level as it does in WvW because you don’t need to sit on a point and eat pet dmg to make an effect on the situation.

The issue is here, why does every ranger build in other areas of the game that are completely separate from both style and environment are seeing these very nerfs when they’re not warranted at all. Every complaint came from PvP , not one complaint is from WvW because it’s a non-issue in WvW because like I said , you’re not forced to eat pet damage in a point contesting something and fighting the ranger at the same time. It’s a gamechanger in PvP though, and for that it is VERY op.

I just disagree completely with the route being taken to nerf pets across the board when these pets are borderline useless and most rangers simply use pets for CC in WvW as the pathing is terrible and kiting them is much easier. Most run canines in WvW and cats are simply for passive condition application moreso than burst. You will hardly see a ranger running a burst cat/bird bunker regen spec in WvW like it’s being run in PvP. This nerf does nothing but penalize every ranger for one OP ranger build being over-used in PvP, it’s kittening ridiculous.

And also ill add to this that you’re talking about me being prejudice about a class when you’re calling the entire ranger class OP because we have ONE spec where WE ARE also being pushed into a completely bunker point holding spec, that’s all we have that provides team usefulness in PvP. So it’s not our fault, yet now all of our builds are seeing a nerf and being penalized for it in EVERY area of the game when it’s only being used in PvP. It’s selfish on every other class’s part not to see this just as much.