Guild Wars 2

Haha, I actually had this big post ready to submit asking Vizunah why they favor points over holding objectives and actually playing WvW in a way it was meant (taking and holding objectives, instead of doing a point race with a huge blob of people).
But halfway through I realized I just don’t care at all, a big reason is the interview that was running in the back that some guy had with 2 ANet dudes telling us what we might expect from WvW in the upcoming future, which basically was a big “screw you”.

There’s another thread with it but I will repost it here:
http://www.guildwars2junkies.com/2012/12/18/guildcenter-121712-special-guests-habib-loew-matt-witter-anet-wvw-devs/

Around 25:00 they start talking about WvW in its current state and what we can expect in the future. Which isn’t much, at all.

I will take my leave from GW2, might be back somewhere along the line to check back in but highly doubt it.

Been a pleasure

Alright, time to leave GW2. Been some fun while it lasted.

Iavra.8510:

about 350k karma after buying a whole set of karma gear, 4 T3 cultural weapons and some smaller things.

Isn’t this what got a bunch of people banned right after launch?

As far as i know, there was some kind of bug that made certain items cost far less karma than they should cost. Making money due to this is exploiting.

After those bans ANet however made it sufficiently clear that Karma should in no way, shape or form be able to be turned into gold. Kripparian made a video about his ban (doing the aforementioned cheap karma item thingy and making 8 gold) and the aftermath of the ban where he explained he got a call from a big shot at ANet telling him ANet intended Karma to be a completely seperate currency in no way bound to gold or gems.

Mysteries.3659:

You can flip it to gold with a little investment. There’s threads about this. Look around the forums.

Isn’t this what got a bunch of people banned right after launch?

I believe ANet their idea with Karma was to create a third kind of currency that was in no way shape or form bound to gold/gems. If they did link Karma to gold/gems they would actually be hurting their own income, which I think they don’t like.

Zerging isn’t the issue whats keeping GW2 WvWvW from becoming a skill based competitive game. It’s the result of a set of limitations.

GW2 its own limitations created by ANet are at fault for making zerging so powerful. This game has created a setting where having bigger numbers almost always means being victorious. A combination of things set this off, 5 man AoE cap (combined with RNG of AoE damage selection) and Downed state are the 2 biggest limitations.
Right now it is always smarter to simply get a bigger group of people to run around with than it is to create a focus group of highly skilled players. Because the moment the ratio gets over 2 to 1 the smaller group their chances of winning go down exponentially due to the aforementioned limitations. Simple math will tell you that.

Skill does play a small role in this game, namely in small scale battles. 1 vs 3 shouldn’t be possible due to simple game mechanics (2 people ressing 1 downed person is faster than a haste/frenzy/time warped stom) but it is possible due to skill and human error and so on. However if you scale the battles the variables skill and human error become less of an issue. Skill, because a single person is limited to damaging 5 other people. And human error because the game becomes much more forgiving because of the randomness of the 5 man AoE cap.
As an example, 2 people put down the same AoE skill on a group of 50 players. The RNG of ANet will come to live and make the first AoE skill hit 5 random people in that group of 50, while the second AoE will hit another random 5 people. Sure there is a chance (albeit a tiny one, do the math yourself if you really want to know how tiny) both AoE’s will hit the same group of 5.

In theory the bright minds at ANet should have realized that they were creating a setting where eventually every server would go for getting as close to map cap amount of players in their zerg and going up against the other servers doing the same. Sadly this highly discourages competitive play and any form of theorycrafting or skill training.

Cyril.1486:

OP are you french by any chance ?

Oh the screenshots I have by now of the huge Vizunah deathball of 60/70/80 players mostly running around like mindless zombies.

This discussion is completely useless. ANet has openly admitted to WvW never being balanced because it’s simply not possible to make that work.

I won’t point you towards s/t PvP because trust me, after doing that for a week you will be bored out of your freaking mind.

Absolutely nothing is going to change zerging at all without something else becoming seriously overpowered.
- Upgrading siege damage so that a 50+ zerg should tremble and run in fear would simply make defending too freakishly easy.
- Taking away 5 man AoE cap would mean every server will run with 75% Staff-D/D Ele’s and the other 25% Guardians

ANet had an amazing idea with WvWvW which made all those Realm vs Realm veterans from DAOC and the likes cream their pants. However they simply didn’t think it would have been this big of a hit. I seriously think they were unable to realize that people would become such sheep and run around in groups of 50/60/70 or in the case of Vizunah sometimes even more capping one objective and moving on to the next not worrying about defending any of it.

I’ve said it time and time again, this game had amazing potential but is without a doubt hindered by its limitations. Guild Wars 2 WvWvW had absolutely no chance of becoming a serious competitive environment where skill could create any difference between a small group of highly skilled players and a large group of mediocre/bad players. If interested go through my post history and look for the posts I made regarding this issue.

Guild Wars 2 went for the e-sports level PvP but completely failed. They lack any kind of ladder/ranking system which makes matchups dull and pointless. I for one really really really wanted to see a Guild vs Guild setting but somehow I doubt that will ever the light of day in GW2.

The reason people go over to other servers to recruit is because quite frankly, this game is already dying.

PvE has absolutely nothing to offer because there is little to no gear progression.
s/t PvP still lacks any kind of ladder/ranking system so high level teams hardly play vs each other.
WvWvW is filled with so many bugs that completely ruin the experience (culling/jump exploit/etcetc). There are no rivalries to spark any on going battles.. You lose? Why not join the winning server?

This game was meant to deliver e-sports level PvP and completely failed to do so. It was meant to deliver a three way massive battle, which in a way they got to work but they simply did not forsee it becoming the main attraction of GW2.

Then there are the big number of people who came from Guild Wars 1. The game that kept on going because of rivalries and epic battles, the game that actually lived up to its name; GUILD WARS. Where is the Guild vs Guild feature?

ANet created a product that was meant to deliver on so many aspects and basically only delivered on one. This game is the best looking MMO I’ve played, that’s pretty much it.

Depends. If you want to run around with a zerg it doesn’t matter what level you are. If you want to be effective with leveling, having an elite skill to use to tag as many players is quite useful.

If you want to roam solo or with a small group (5 people tops) anything under lvl 40 is painful for your team.

Wandred.4583:

2Same.4687
this another RUIN. not from Desolation. All who stay and play – on BT now

I checked to be sure but isn’t “Ruinous” of those subguilds of [RUIN]? That’s what I remember.. I hardly care anymore haven’t seen any RUIN players on BT for a while anyway.

Had some fun on Vizu BL yesterday. Even ran around with RG for a while, impressive how you can keep fielding that many people every single night. But I can’t be the only one who feels that GW2 is on its way out already..

Flanking Strike in any PvP setting is extra weird because people tend to have irregular movement patterns. Take into account lag/rendering issues and you have the recipe for disaster with this skill. I know about the trick to make it land but it still doesn’t make it a proper working skill because it still fails quite a lot if you opponent doesn’t move in that straight line.

It works (better) on AI because their movement pattern is regular and almost always in a straight line towards you.

Adaneshade.2409:

Wasabee.5031:

Adaneshade.2409:

I have to disagree, With power as the main stat on Power/tough/vit, you get incredibly high power. It works VERY well with a sword/dagger build. I throw in emerald orbs and emerald jewelry (toughness/power/precision) and I now have 59% crit chance as well as an obscenely high power and still come out with over 3100 armor and 17k hp with food. I have no problem at all taking out any build from any class 1v1 and typically do just fine 1v2.

I still can’t see how could you get up to 59% crit chance with all of those power/tough/vit gears? with power/tough/vit gears, Power/Precision/Tough jewelry provided you 59% crit chance, 3100 armor and 17k hp. Please provide screenshot.

Very well, here is your screenshot. Anything else Mr. Doubty McDoubtpants? :-P

The best thing about this post is the conversation in the screenshot about cross eyed Sylvari. Lost my marbles at “Mother tree is mating with her brother”.

As a roaming thief I highly dislike the S/D set in WvW. I still think even though you might crit and whatever it is meant for control which is close to useless in WvW. There is no use in controlling a single person his ability to do something in a Zerg vs Zerg and although its extremely fun to play 1v1, that hardly ever is the case in WvW, atleast not on my server. I’m always alone, always outnumbered. P/D condition thief is my choice.

EDIT: I must clarify.. I’m in T1 and up against 2 servers that are insane Zerglings. Taking out a single support class in a zerg of 50/60 sometimes more is meaningless.

D/P was a hit back when you could contest caps in stealth. Right now there is no reason to run D/P over any other weaponset.

In a 30/30/30/30/30 scenario Thieves have a huge headstart. Open up with the sad CnD > Mug > Backstab > HS HS HS and you should be done. Mesmers can create clones etc but it won’t really work because unless he doesn’t do anything like dodging/moving at all it’s kind of easy to spot the real Mesmer. Apart from that, clones etc die in seconds to Thieves…

S/D control build really isn’t made for WvW in my opinion. Sure you can probably stun/dazelock a single person in WvW and finish him/her off after a lot of effort and time but it doesn’t really get you anywhere.

In s/tPvP S/D control build is something completely different, you can actively control a fight in such a way that the opposing team has 1 less person that can do anything.

I’ve played S/D in both WvW and still sometimes use it in s/tPvP both cases because people are often shocked by running into a Thief that does something else than Backstabbing or Blossom spam.

P.s.: Last time I checked Flanking Strike is still a waste of initiative because the pathing is glitchy and buggy.

I actually seem to remember that every sigil that has a X seconds CD on it seemed to make it impossible to make any other sigil proc while on a CD from another. So lets say you have Sigil of Rage and Sigil of Fire, Rage procs giving you haste then Fire wants to proc but can’t because Rage is on CD.

So basically 1 CD means they all are on CD. So stacking sigils that have CDs seems utterly pointless.

1. Thief issue is not completely bound to thieves but also to the culling issues, in big group battles Thieves sometimes show up 1-2 seconds later on your screen then supposed to. However in small scale battles where there are 10 people on the screen, they pop up right away for me.
2. I’ve been playing WvW a lot and have around 10k kills (mind you I don’t zerg so I don’t really stack kills as much as zerglings). I average about 1 badge per 4-5 kills. You want badges? Find a succesful zerg and go AoE your butt off and pick up the bags afterwards.
3. As of right now WvW is definately dying. Hell I’ll say it, this game is dying. With the poor support, insane amount of bugs, poor handling of exploits/hacks and so on, its actually some kind of miracle people stuck around for this long.

4. This is a favorite of mine by now. Recently ANet gave us a description of what every class is supposed to do. Thieves have stealth and high single target damage, Guardians are THE support class, Rangers are the masters of ranged combat.

When you reach the Warrior this is what you will basically read:
Warriors don’t have a lot of utility or condition removal, thus they have to power through everything they come up against… So we gave them everything to do so. A GS/Rifle glass cannon warrior has 20k HP and will beat you every single time as a Ranger. You can count on it.

Already saw [RUIN] on SFR. Server hoppers deluxe.

My other post got deleted because I am not allowed to post youtube videos of some guy exploiting his way into towers/keeps… It happens so often nowadays its insane, especially late at night when there is a lot less people online to see it happen.
All you need is 1 mesmer who knows how to do it and not a single tower/keep is safe.

The majority of thieves will stay glass cannon untill ANet decides to change it. Aslong as you are able to kill a person with a single chain (CnD-Pre — Steal — Backstab — HS — HS — HS) most people will play it because its easy.

I’m a P/D cond thief.

Complaining about siege is stupid. Unless people abuse some kind of zoom hack to make arrow carts shoot over doors and what not they are fine. Only a few places in the game allow arrow carts to be placed outside of AoE range while still being effective.

I should know by now cause I play vs Vizunah who use insane amounts of siege to defend stuff.. 6 arrow carts, 3 ballistas, 2 cata’s to defend a tower that has a treb in it? Np!

Mesmers want speed buffs? For what? Mesmers are fine as they are right now tbh, for most classes the Mesmer is a pain in the kitten to handle, they have 2 stealths, have a speedbuff of their own and blink… Mesmers shouldn’t complain.

Even Guardians can have quite some mobility with several weaponsets.

I don’t see the big issue here. The only time I have my speed signet on in WvW is when traveling and even now I more often than not leave it off because I can easily switch to 3 stealth utilities and use the 50% speed buff in stealth, after those are on CD I use bow/dodge swiftness to fill the gap between CDs.

There are people speaking French all across the globe. Technically due to your overseas colonizations there are countries on every single continent that speak French.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_language

To the two roaming thieves I fought with for like 15 minutes on EB Vizunah Pistol Whip Thief from [CoT] (?) and SFR Sword/Dagger glass (?) thief from [VcY].
GOD THAT WAS BORING…

15 minutes of you two popping in and out of stealth and more specific in and out of infiltrator strike range, which gets me rooted, we both CnD which means stealth and we lose each other. Rinse, repeat…

Holding ground isn’t beating. Which I was referring to.

You can hold a tower/keep with 5 vs 20. I agree. Siege is awesome.

However in open field battle 5 vs 20 doesn’t work. A 2 to 1 ratio battle works but it really requires the bigger team being a bunch of kitten. However if you scale it to 3 to1 or higher it becomes highly unlikely that you will win no matter how dumb the opponent is. This is a theoretical but mathematical issue set into a game by limitations.

What I really want to ask those RG people who make all those vids, how the hell do you guys get to see the entire enemy zerg everytime.
RG runs with 20 something people right? I see enemy zergs up to 30 people sometimes more. When I run with the Nugos zerg, which nowadays hardly gets up to 15, we never get to see the enemy zerg in its full glory like in most of the fights in the videos.

Nevertheless I realize you probably have culling issues aswell but that hardly seems the case in most fights you guys captured in those videos. Take that last fight in garrison, I would have run in there thinking “what the hell broke down our doors” only to then die.

On a side note, all the talks about who’s better and SFR’s rise to power. It’s all moot. Desolation said they were well on their way to becoming a T1 force to be reckoned with before RUIN came. RUIN left and they dropped down. Blacktide (which I’m on) was a decent before a good number of guilds joined it (a bunch including myself from FSP) making it a more all round server and thus getting into T1. Now that a lot of guilds/people are on a break/stopped playing we will most likely drop down aswell.

As I said before, Vizunah is the only consistent server in EU ladder. They have been T1 from the start and will most likely be T1 till the end. Believe it or not, I actually think that because Vizunah is a French server that they will stay this consistent. They have no language barriers, they have a huge playerbase that is concentrated on FR servers (5 of them in EU pool while only 2 are really competitive) and with their VOIP system creating some organization amongst those big numbers is most likely the key to their success. Not a flame, actually a compliment.

By that same theory German servers should be doing as well too right? Sure but there are 7 German servers. 4 of which in the top 11 actively competing to get higher. Also I still think the impact of international players on FR server might be bigger than most native French people realize. Not saying its monumental or anything, just saying that its there every able body counts at night. The Germans don’t have that.

That said, Blacktide has been #1 for 4 weeks iirc, we did so because we managed to get as close to a 24h presence as we possibly could but we never had any proper enemy that could stop us from capping almost everything in the night. But that goes for every T1 match in EU so far. So far there hasn’t been a 24h clash like NA T1 has been doing for almost 2 months now, for us it has always been Server X has a 20-22h presence and thus beats everyone with a 100-150k point lead while Server Y and Server Z only have a 12-16h presence and thus get slammed.

Right now skill has almost no impact on the outcome of a battle, it’s all about numbers. If you put 10 skilled players up against 30 mediocre or even low skilled players the 30 will most likely still win if they simply hold their ground and (ab)use the mechanics in this game (downed state etc).

I have made these claims before in the T1 EU WvW thread with simple math. Here’s the short version:
10 people can at max hit 50 people (10×5) which means that at best everyone on the opposing team gets hit by one AoE and another 66,67% gets by two (30+(30*0.6697)).
30 people can at max hit 150 people (30×5) which means that if everything hits every single person on the opposing team gets hit by 15 AoE’s (10×15).

Even if you would try to factor in skill in some way and make it account for 50% less AoE damage it would still be 7,5 hits per head on the smaller team.

That’s just the DAMAGE the two teams can do.. If you then think about the downed state mechanic it almost becomes impossible to kill someone in the bigger zerg because all they have to do is press that revive button and the downed person is up before you know it.
Now I know what most people will say, it’s “Yeah but if you focus on the downed person you will also hit the people ressing”. To which I would say “Sure thing buddy” but let’s go to extremes and say that of the 30 people zerg 1 gets downed, 5 go revive that still leaves 24 (30-1-5) people trying to kill your little group of 10.

Removing the AoE cap won’t work either, because with the current damage of abilities it would theoretically mean that a single Ele could destroy a zerg while sitting on a wall.
If they want to make WvW into a competitive skillbased environment they will have to redo most of the current mechanics imo, which is not going to happen.

If you somehow disagree with what I have explained about everything, feel free to join in on the old T1 EU WvW thread where appearantly its normal to beat 3 to 1 ratio battles. I have yet to see any proof of it but a lot of my server buddies claim to do so.

In a 3 to 1 ratio battle downed state is ridiculous because 2 people reviving a single downed player is faster than a quickness stomp. 1 person reviving a single downed player is almost as fast as a normal stomp, however factoring in the time it takes to get to the downed corpse and then the amount of skills downed players have to delay a stomp more often than not the stomp is slower than the revive.

If you apply such rules to a zerg vs zerg battle where one of the 2 zergs outnumbers the other it completely negates skill in open field battles. This ofcourse being theoretical, people are still people and we make mistakes/bad judgement calls. Aslong as you have a bigger zerg that can revive as soon as possible your smaller zerg opponent doesn’t stand a chance.

Downed state is something ANet implemented with a thought process behind it. It being removed completely is something I deem highly unlikely. I would just propose leveling all downed states, the only thing you should be able to do while downed is heal yourself. Not 4 skills, just 1, heal or die.

Also, Ele downed state being useless? lol, it’s close to being the best if you don’t count the insane warrior vengeance where, if traited, you can rally off any kill. While if not traited it just means you could still get off a frenzied 100b and kill something to trigger a rally…

lol, what I’m trying to figure out is how people who DC as often as they claim can play this game and not break everything in close proximity to you.
When I first started using the Authenticator for GW2 I DC’ed every 10 minutes or so which got me so annoyed I just stopped playing after the second DC.. Ofcourse only to read on the forums that the authenticator was making me DC.

If you really DC often enough to see a 2s repair make you go broke, if anything you should stop playing and try to become the next Ghandi because you sir/madame have got such calm over you it’s out of this world.

Also, who in their right mind buys a MMO if they know their connection is so incredibly unstable?

Lastly, lol to the guy who said something about blowing up your PSU and not having a replacement right there.. Your PSU blows up often enough to make your repairbills insane? :O

I think some of you Vizunah players are borderline insane..

First 2/3 weeks BT in T1: You are only winning because Xaoc caps in our offline hours 4/5 GMT till 10/11 GMT
Last week: Absolute silence about our server even though it was obvious little to no one was playing and thus could night cap away leaving AS and BT fighting fully upgraded keeps with a metric kittenton of siege. But no-one complained then did they?
This week: The only reason SFR is winning is because you cap at our offline hours 0/1 GMT till 6/7 GMT

You guys should get off your stupid high horse and come to terms with the fact that you are not the most skilled server but are the most consistent one. Is that something to be proud of? Hell yes! You managed to stay in T1 from the start by consistently having numbers on the field. However whenever the chips are down and you are losing, the first thing you kids do is grab that big bag of excuses and go “Let’s see what we can pull out of this thing now”.

Own up to the fact that right now you guys are just getting your kitten handed to you by a server that has a more consistent all round playerbase. I sure as hell will.

Ins.7139:

saVdoom.2067:

Zerg fights is the main word here, i think by that he does not mean a normal fight where you’ll have planned your engagement and positioning, pre-buffing (like you usually do, and like it is shown in the couple videos posted).

He means if you head-to-head meet the opposite zerg being 3x your numbers you will not survive if you try the engagement, because skill is not a decisive factor in WvWvW in such fights. Positioning, planning and composition are though. If you consider those to be “skill” then by all means.. keep arguing till the end of times.

Of course you wont win, because no amount of skill is going to save you from your stupidity. If you head to head meet a 30 man zerg you get the hell out of there before they can kill you. For instance, a very skilled player could kill 4 people, but he couldn’t do it if he was poorly geared. Same applys to your small man group, you need to get everyone up to a set point to be able to kill them quickly enough to win. So again it all comes down to individual skill in the battle. 10 unskilled people would charge through the zerg hitting auto attack till a) they die or b) the enemy dies. A group of 10 skilled players would first position themselves correctly whilst moving and secondly use abilities / skills / autoattacks where they are needed, not just button smashing hoping for the best. (Using abilities to split the zerg up or buy enough time to correct a mistake)

You then create the scenario and take control of the situation to get people prebuffed in safety so you are ready to take that zerg on.

Basically you’re all arguing that he is right, when all he’s actually saying is what we have known since the first battles in time. Numbers win, everyone knows that. Does Same want a medal for pointing this out? He is just being outright ignorant trying to apply this “knowledge” to every scenario in game.

Finally you said it.

OFCOURSE no-one in their right mind would charge into a group of 30 with just 10 hoping for the best. However people claimed to have done so (two pages back by now). People actually said they managed to completely decimate groups 3-4x larger than theirs, which I just called impossible based on math.

You should never just dive into that group of 30, you should try to make that group of 30 smaller by running around for a bit making people bored of chasing you. Create chaos by splitting your own group up and meeting up later. But that doesn’t change the fact that by the time you fight that so called group of 30, it no longer is a group of 30 but it’s a group of 15-20 which in no way is a group 3-4x larger than you.

That is all I said. I don’t want a medal, I want people that are swinging their e-peen around in forums to back it up with proof or come up with accurate stories. I wouldn’t have said a single thing if people said this:

We manage to beat groups 3-4x our size by creating chaos, making them split up. We then fought the first group that was still bigger than ours and then fought another that was bigger than ours.

Because beating 2 groups of 15-20 (SEPARATELY) as a group of 10 is possible, it’s hard, but possible.

There is no real reason to stick around for long periods of time.

I’m on Blacktide (T1 for 4/5 weeks now) and we’ve dominated T1 for 3/4 weeks in a row. Mainly because I feel we were more powerful than the other servers but I cannot deny that we just had a better 24/7 force than the other lasting T1 server (Vizunah FR).
Since the start of this weeks matchup we went from having an organized 60-80 people across 4 maps during the day to 15-20 across 4 maps untill primetime. And then at our EU primetime we might just be able to get 60-80 people across 4 maps.

According to server reports Blacktide is still considered a “full server” however for WvW this sure as hell isn’t the case. I could blame it on people getting bored of winning (which I haven’t seen before in my life) or the holidays. However I think it has a lot more to do with people getting bored of a buggy environment, class imbalance and countless other issues that have been known since the release but are untouched so far.

What shouldn’t be forgotten is that because it’s the holiday season, a lot of new games hit the market which could also be a reason for people not being around as often as they did 1/2 months ago.

For me however its the overall lack of interest from ANet (I could be absolutely wrong here) concerning WvW and its metric crapton of issues. Even if they are working on it, atleast give us a heads up of how far you are, share insights on big issues etc etc. But for now we have to make do with a single short, and often, meaningless post that says “we’re working on it”.

I’m going to be taking a break until 2013 which I started yesterday. I still check in on these forums for official statements and patch updates but I won’t be playing for a while. Maybe, come January, I will be back in that state of mind where the bugs/exploits don’t annoy me as much.

On topic:

Since last reset BT feels like a freaking desert. If we can field 50 players during the day across all 4 maps I would be doing an Irish Folkdance in my underwear. If anything our numbers right now are close to 20 across 4 maps…

Eventually during EU primetime we might be able to get 100 across 4 maps but that may be stretching it. I don’t know whats going on, or whether BT has decided to take a break, I just know that we didn’t stand a chance during this week because we simply had no-one to do anything with.

mOlder.4803:

Same: msg me if you want some pointers in tactic if you want to improve your skills in few vs many I know for a fact there has been people winning 3 to 1 fights. Be it solo vs three, 2 ppl vs 6, 6 vs 18 or 20 vs 60. Hell I’m sure there has been 30 vs 90 scenarios where the 30 ppl won. But it’s hard for me to prove it in every scenario I’m not sure why you want the developers to make it easier for you to accomplish this. It’s not easy, I give you that but it shouldn’t be.

As for your first post:

WvW has never been about skill. This has nothing to do with its playerbase but everything to do with the game. WvW in its current state doesn’t allow skill to be a definitive factor in a fight. There are way too many variables negate it. This is a numbers game before anything else, its flashy, easy to get into and promotes zerging like sheep.

The only real skill can be found in tPvP but that is already as dead as it can possibly be.

This is what I completely disagrees on. If you can’t handle that people disagrees with you, you are a novice on public internet forums

Thanks I think I will pass on the “skill lesson”. I have done 1v3 plenty of times myself and won. However this doesn’t mean that 10v30 is possible aswell unless 20 of those 30 people just stand there and do nothing.

What you CIR folks seem to not be able to understand is that I’m not discussing tactics or ways to enter combat or WHEN to enter combat. I’m discussing the fact that because of limitations in this game set by ANet make it highly improbable to win a straight up 10v30. Hence it won’t really ever happen.
This has absolutely 0 to do with whether or not the conditions were bad for the opposing team or whatever. I’m just stating the obvious, being that if 10 people went up against 30 people in a straight up fight the 10 will always lose.
It doesn’t matter when where or why these two groups fight, it’s just that this game doesn’t allow it to work in favor of the smaller group even though they immensly outskill the bigger group.

This isn’t a flame, diss or whatever you want to call it. This is basic math. You CIR folks however have shown for almost 2 full pages that you lack any understanding of it. Now that WAS a flame.

I have put down simple explanations everywhere and anyone with half a brain should understand them. If you don’t I really fear for your life cause chances are you are the type of person who decides that putting a tv and a toaster on the side of your bathtub while taking a bath is a good freaking idea.

For now I’m absolutely done with the simpletons who refuse to read or listen. Have a nice day.

We can debate out this aslong as you want to. This is ANet their official response to why WvW has PvE in it.

WvW is a PvE setting that allows players to kill eachother. Which is also the reason why PvP balance issues don’t apply in WvW.

I’m not saying I agree with ANet for doing so, just saying that they did and thus there is no reason comparing WvW to PvP because they are, according to ANet, two completely different things.

If you let all the tears that were dropped in this thread roll down a mountain and make use of some kind of hydroelectric generators you can supply a small country of energy.

EDIT: You can still kill a thief. You can’t kill a D/D Ele.

I’m uninformed.. What the hell is the “Breakout Event”?

EDIT: Nevermind, found it.

I don’t see the big deal.. Instead of all capping you just leave a team with a single tower.. Big whoop, no idiotic NPC commander, no free supply, no siege crap and no defensive boons.

mOlder.4803:

To Same:
Imagine a RL scenario. Give 30/40 monkeys their own fully-loaded machinegun, and try to take them out with 9 of your best friends. I wouldn’t exactly go head-to-head vs them on an open field. I don’t get what you’re trying to prove. The culling problem has been identified and we can only hope it will be fixed. But still I don’t know why you insist you should be superior to those monkeys when all logic states you shouldn’t charge in head first? :p

This is by far the most nonsensical post I have ever read in my life. It relates in no way to what I’m trying to explain and it still makes you look like a person who does in fact run into the same glass door twice expecting a different result..

I will once more, this time shorter, explain why your post here makes no sense on any level.

I never said anything about when or what to engage. I’m discussing the fact that it is impossible because of limitations in this game (downed state, aoe cap, etc) to beat a zerg 3 times your zerg or higher.

Why would I say this? Because people claim they did it, the RG fella even tried to show us in a movie clip. I refuted it all because it was untrue and came with facts explaining why it is highly improbable to win a zerg vs zerg with a 1 to 3 ratio.

Again this has in no way, shape or form anything to do with when you do or do not attack. This has to do with people making claims of winning a battle where they were outnumbered 3 to 1.

I also would honestly approve of you going to see some kind of doctor to try and figure out why you are unable to read and comprehend a number of sentences in which I already said this multiple times.

But just for you:
I’m not discussing the actual thought process about when and where to attack. I AM however debating the probability of people winning a fight in which the enemy outnumbers them 3 to 1, which people claim to do on a daily basis.

So in short, that’s 4 times I explained it in this post. Try and see if you can make it stick this time.

I will even go out on a limb and say that you are right for not attacking 30 chimps with fully automatic weaponry (I still don’t know how you came up with this) in open combat. Because considering the fact that they could be trained to use weaponry (I guess thats what you imply) and have opposable thumbs they will most likely beat you because hey 30 automatic weapons prolly beat 9 automatic weapons right?
It still proves my point more than it makes a statement for yours…

And that’s 5…

I don’t understand why people say they have to do JP for blueprints at all.. I haven’t bought a single blueprint with gold since the release.. I still have over 2k badges in my bank and am stacked with blueprints which I use on a daily basis.

However I am very passive in JP, I will only attack others if they attacked first. Even if that means I die to a group of 2/3 that jumped me. I would like to state that the only reason I do JP is for the Ori ores ;s.

Every matchup there’s a guild that trolls the JP. On Desolation it was “Golden Horde” on Vizunah its “Obsidian something” (ooGo tag or something) worst thing is that most of them are extremely bad at this game so as a thief I don’t mind going into a 2/3/4v1 while I already had to use my heal and a utility to get up that damn pipe which they camp on top of to constantly AoE on.

<3 to the Vizu warrior who thought it was a smart thing to pop haste before bull’s charge and 100b. Definately not a tell of what you are going to do at all. I enjoyed killing you, then the guardian trying to res you and the ranger trying to res the guardian.

This isn’t new. ANet is slow on the response and give 0 feedback.

Hence we don’t know if they are banning people or working on fixes.

Assassinin.4963:

Anet designed WvW as PvE. If you are not doing pve on WvW, you are not doing it right dude.

As far as PvP in GW2 is concerned, it is only in sPvP. Outside of sPvP, EVERYTHING is PvE. Get it?

This is about as correct as it can get.

ANet stated that s/tPvP would be the environment that focused on PvP and PvP alone.

WvW is a PvE setting where players can battle other players. This is no way states that WvW = PvP + PvE. It says WvW = PvE with a small element of PvP. They made their point when they started doing balance changes but ONLY for s/tPvP.

There is no need to keep comparing WvW and PvP because it’s not the same. You are in fact playing PvE with the added element that a hostile player can in fact kill you while you farm Exp/Karma/Gold…

Elcron.1208:

Same.4687:

If it’s “your” siege you should be able to claim it. Works like that with every other piece of siege weaponry.

Well no, golems are the only piece of siege that you can’t kick then out if you’re the owner

Yet another sad mess up from ANet..

Seth Lex.5493:

Same.4687:

I call bullkitten on all accounts until someone comes up with any form of proof.
/snip

There: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IFfsYGEpD0E#t=525s
Now, since there is actually a whole bunch of people telling you that the Earth does in fact move around the Sun, can we move on?

Close but no cookie. Here’s why, your group consisted of 17 people and theirs of 31 (give or take 2/3 ALSO considering its impossible to account for “beasts” I would say less than 30 is a nice number). Yes I did an exact headcount on yours and tried to do an exact headcount on theirs.
Want to know why I spent 2 minutes counting? Because I wanted to make a point. People see a large blob of red names and always assume the worst. I don’t even remember the number of times a PUG or scout told us “THERE ARE 30/40 PLAYERS ATTACKING OUR TOWER” then when you get there it’s 20 people tops.
Want to know why this happens? Because none of us is freaking Rainman up in this mofo. And because of that we always assume the worst and when we beat the worst we always assume the best. It’s a really weird phenomena that has been around for ages, combine that with the euphoria from winning a battle you didn’t think you’d win and you have yourself a mighty tale.

Nevertheless you beating another guild that had about the same numbers (could only count 16 OSC members) with a sizeable PUG running with them is impressive. I’ve had the pleasure of doing this to a MORT raid recently and it was glorious indeed. However it still doesn’t count as a 3 to 1 ratio or even worse in their favor.

This doesn’t refute anything I have stated so far but it did however gain you a compliment most of you are aching for. Cause lets face it you went through the trouble to find this fight didn’t you?

Again, this isn’t a flame. I’m actually trying to point out what’s wrong with this game. ANet promised a competitive environment where guilds could make a difference. But then they put up a unbreakable wall of limitations that stop said guilds from doing exactly what they made out to do.

To put it into a real life example:
ANet has done a political campaign, they promised a lot of stuff so we gave them the power. But when the curtain fell and they sat in their throne, one by one the bricks came tumbling down to unveil the big picture. And now, no matter how hard we scream and stomp, 99% of our voices get ignored.

Seriously lol’ed at your GIF thread Frenchies

Been doing this for a month already. Haven’t gotten anyone else to do it with me though. It is amazingly kittenn to watch my guildies go “Who the hell is that running IN that enemy zerg?!”.

lol a glass cannon warrior complaining about Thieves. This is rich.

I honestly don’t understand how you can say “OMG HE TOTALLY ALMOST MURDERED ME” and “I’m basically a glass cannon” in the same sentence. You decided to run high risk/high reward that’s what you get for it.
What do you say to anyone who complains when you do Bull’s Charge and a hasted 100b for 16k? I’m guessing its something along the lines of “L2P issue”. Correct it is, as is this.

Although I honestly am not waiting for another RUIN invasion. I do want to say that Vizunah can stop with the “we only have 40 people running across 4 maps in the night”. We’ve been up against you for atleast 4 weeks now and we both know that number is significantly higher. I’m not saying you still have queues at night or whatever but you are atleast able to field 20 per map, easy.

By the way, this isn’t a diss or a poke at you guys. Props for finding people who want to work the nightshift but there is no need to hide behind fake numbers.

If it’s “your” siege you should be able to claim it. Works like that with every other piece of siege weaponry.

I’m not flaming, I’m correcting. People often think they just wiped a group that is 3-4x larger than theirs but in reality it might have been closer to 1,5-2x larger. Nevertheless impressive but nothing as epic as you make it out to be.

A 1,5/2 to 1 ratio can be overcome in smaller groups because skill actually makes a difference at that level. However when you start talking zergs of 10 and up that is all off the table.

I’m a do or die player myself. Full condition thief always jumping around in the midst of the enemy zerg to losen them up so my zerg can try and steamroll them. However when the numbers are against you, all you can hope for is that you scare them enough so they scatter and you can pick off small groups.

I call bullkitten on all accounts until someone comes up with any form of proof. I’m in Nugos myself and am well aware of my capabilities and that of my guild.

But I will toss you another bone just to make you look silly.

If a group of 30 spreads out vs a group of 10 who’s spread out. Your chances get even smaller but you most likely don’t realize that. Your AoE/Damage capabilities are half (already accounting for some bad skill/bad gear/lowbies in the group of 30) or even less than half of what the group of 30 can poop out.
If a group of 30 spreads out your chances to make full use of your AoE/Damage decrease.

And if your group of 10 spreads out you are 100% dead because you need every buff/heal/aoe boons you can get to even stand a chance of surviving longer than 1 minute.

I also never said its impossible to take out larger groups than yours. I did however claim it’s highly improbable and borderline impossible to take out a group 3/4 times larger than you (as someone so boldly stated earlier in this thread).
With Nugos we have taken on zergs about twice our size and came out victorious but that was absolutely stretching it AND the opposing zerg was highly disorganized and had lowbies/PUGs running around in it. We however are not disorganized, don’t run with many PUGs or lowbies. We knew what we were doing, we went in with a plan and buffed out to the teeth.

Hell I would even consider going out on a limb and stating it’s impossible to beat a group of 30 with 10 if the group of 30 is limited to auto-attacks. Want to know why? Because logic states that at any time 3 of the opponents are capable of hitting 1 of yours. The moment 1 goes down those numbers go up exponentially.

By now I’m just humoring you two with arguments that most likely tear at the very fabric you call kittens but it’s simply not possible that a T1/T2 server will lose a 3 to 1 ratio battl. Unless ofcourse you are hoping that somehow 90% of your opponents are in fact potatoes.

EDIT: CIR is a proper guild, you probably record your glorious WvW battles. Bring me some proof that shows your group of ragtag warriors beating a zerg three times your size.

There is no real reason to argue about this. It’s basically mathematically impossible to beat a team 3 times as large as yours due to the AoE restrictions.

In a straight up fight where a group of 10 goes up against a group of 30 and NO-ONE runs away but fights till the end the group of 10 does not stand a chance. This is not open for debate this isn’t any kind of “I got more button pressing skills” discussion.
People have been talking about this since day 1 where the AoE cap (of 5) has been at the center of, it promotes zerging to the extent that ANet did not think of this.

Now I know I might be hurting some of the forum warriors their feelings by saying what they are saying is highly improbable or even downright impossible but its fact vs fiction.

A small example (10vs30),
Let’s say everyone in your team does max AoE you would be able to hit 50 players which means everyone in the opposing team gets hit while 66.67% of their team gets hit by 2 different AoE’s ( (30+(0.6667*30))=~50 )

Let’s say that 33.33% (0.3333*30=~10) of the enemies are as capable as you are and are able to hit you with max AoE it means they are capable of hitting 50 people aswell. However in their case it would mean that every single one of your party members gets hit by 5 AoE spells.
If the rest of their team (20) would simply autoattack they would still be able to hit every single person in your team with 2 autoattacks to your 1.

Now there’s this variable you refer to as skill, the ability to press buttons better than others because you know what the effects of said buttons are. Right? Wrong. 1 to 1 odds are easily beaten by a show of skill. 1 to 2 odds are already rather iffy because of the downed state that this game has (unhasted stomp takes longer than an immediate res). 1 to 3 odds shouldn’t even be thought off because of the way this game works, sure it happens on small scale fights like 1 vs 3 where 1 player is highly skilled and the other 3 consist of 1 skilled player and 2 people who stop cars with their head for fun.
However the bigger the groups get the more the ratio for winning goes down