Guild Wars 2

Okay so here’s the issue.

Either A
You let people pick where they go, in which case you’ll just end up with the exact same issue as players pick a server to stack.
Or B
You don’t let people pick where they go, in which case they end up massively sharded with nobody they know.

A doesn’t do anything.
B kills the game.

The current system appears to be a pretty good third option, to be honest.

Freakshow.1809:

Thoughts?

Pointless.

The main issue with it is that you don’t need to be tanky as a minion master. Your minions are infinitely better tanks than you are, by virtue of their AoE damage reduction in PvE.

Don’t use Nomad’s. Play full damage with Berserker’s Axe or Viper’s Scepter. Attack with impunity from range while your minions clog the field.

We know. You’ve made this thread a dozen times already. It’s a little perplexing that you feel your opinion is so important it needs to be constantly repeated.

Tick.1605:

well mostly its for the the pople who ask me for a link to my build outside of game, and for others who use gw2 forums for thier necro pvp needs

if people ask for your build you just go
axe/warhorn, greatsword
marauder’s
spite bottom top bottom
curses bottom top top
reaper mid mid mid
(original build, donut steel)

dont need to watch a 1:40 vid for that

Having trouble with ham revs? Run some projectile destruction.

I put CPC on my bars in my MoC build and I’ve never looked back.

This is what I’ve read on reddit.

It’s pretty clearly unintentional behavior. Outnumbered is supposed to be applied or not applied each scoring tick, but people seem to think it only applies when the map switches between outmanned and not-outmanned.

I just hopped in and out of the map to see if that would fix it and I got outmanned so it might be a workaround, but I don’t know.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

At the bare minimum, reward track progress should be based on raw WXP gain (like the PVP reward tracks do with rank points) instead of this degrees-of-seperation participation garbage. That would literally solve all the problems: rewards would be based on active play, and you won’t get penalized because you had to wait out RI on a camp or run halfway across the map to find something to kill/capture.

morrolan.9608:

Yeah this is spot on they actually had a good system that they could have piggy backed on, instead they choose to over complicate it and create a new system that is simply inadequate.

To do this they would need to nerf the crap out of boosters or players would need to have multiple boosters up whenever they’re in WvW to get decent reward rates.

There is a very good reason why rewards are tied to ticks. Coming up with other systems doesn’t remove the primary reason that system is there; so that you can get rewards at a reasonable pace without karmatraining. Apart from AFKers, this system has been perfectly fine- and it continues to be perfectly fine so long as you can hit reasonable targets to refresh your decay, or you’re getting scout credit which is refreshing your decay.

Ice is not bad on a set you’ve built for non-swapping when you have the Spite Vuln and Reaper Bleed traits. I don’t know if it does quite enough for other builds.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

If laying dead is such a hazard then why don’t they just change it so that you auto warp to the nearest wp on death instantly?

Because sometimes you win the fight and you have people there to pull you up.

They want players on linked servers because it means they can reshuffle populations

Shadow Gathering.5649:

I hope someone has said this already in these 7 pages, this isn’t rocket science. Why not allow players to resume their pip status exactly where they left off when they logged off? They will start with whatever level of pips they had when they last logged off. No one has to go afk to wring out their reservoir. Am I drunk?

Besides the idea being a technical pain in the kitten; what’s stopping a player from logging out and logging back in to squeeze their pips for everything they can get? It sounds really stupid but building a system that enables that seems like a counterproductive idea.

Orangensaft.7139:

I think the new system is not bad tbh

Just in the case of players not being able to get to the next objective because they get caught by too many enemy players on the way then it can be annoying

But there would be an easy and good solution for that:
If you get killed by an enemy player you get +30 seconds on the decay timer

That allows people to keep trying to push a close camp for example without sacrificing all their participation for it even if enemies defend it or spawncamp them

And i think it cannot be exploited because it just lasts 30 seconds and you need to actually respawn or get rezzed which again requires being active
It would just serve as a safety decay prevention if you are heavily outmanned and/or just get ganked continually

Why aren’t you getting guard kill on the close camp?

Carighan.6758:

Also, as someone else said, why do something so utterly complicated? :’(

Because getting rewards with little effort was already a problem before pips were implemented and pips made it worse. You should not be able to get rewards at the speed you could for killing a single veteran every 10 minutes.

Carighan.6758:

Is there a list somewhere ingame telling you what tags you for participation how long? No.
Is there a buff on you showing how long you got to go in your participation clock? No.

Does there need to be?
If a player wants more details, they can google them or test for themselves.
If they don’t, they can just understand that “kill stuff = good”.

Carighan.6758:

How is a newcomer ever to understand this mess?

The same way anyone else is to understand the system. It’s not hard. You have the list of things which set your participation decay period. If your standing decay period is lower than the time of the thing you just did, it gets moved up to that time. Simple.

Carighan.6758:

Isn’t a camp only 2 minutes?

No, it’s 10 minutes.

Why are people cranky about the system when they’ve not read the description of the system or tested it themselves?

Rhiannon.1726:

You get 5 min when you destroy a wall and when you are at t6 participation you have at least 5 more min before you drop under t3.
How long do you need to kill a tower lord?

Could’ve been southwest desert tower, that one’s a pita to kill if you don’t poop out stab everywhere.

Carighan.6758:

Literally I guess, “learn to play at peak hours”? :P

It’s really not hard at non-peak hours. Capture camps. If you can’t capture camps, you need to learn to play.

BloodyPanda.6789:

killing a player is 10 mins. WOW! Really should consider spawn camping now. As for the the players who dies and respawn, good luck getting through to an objective to hold your participation without being jumped by few thieves.

It’s a multiplayer game. Group with friends and push out, or build thief hunters and push out.

I haven’t even noticed any difference. Not sure what you folk are doing.

No, I’m still working on them. I’ve got 5/6 pieces of T2 and will start getting T3 once I’ve gotten my T2 pants next week.

Just play it, get ranks, have fun. Don’t stress about tickets. WvW has multiple reward streams and tickets should be a minor one for newer WvWers.

80 second cooldown. You should practically never take Plaguelands without Master of Corruption.

Klipso.8653:

OK, so I might have have a tiny bit more time to play this week than the average player, but I’m obviously here because I enjoy the mode because I’ve hit cap 4 times.

The problem is that this is not a ‘reward system’ its a contribution system. It does not exist to reward those of us who play enough to be able to hit cap 4 times in a week, it exists only to penalize the players who cant hit it once.

The best fix they can do is to make the tickets invisible in the background. keep the rewards on tick but do not allow the player to see how close they are to gaining tickets. Tally them up throughout the week and award all tickets for players on the Friday reset. They don’t even need to increase the cap, they can keep it at 175, but they need to stop showing the player how close they are based on a 5-min ladder.

And I thought my 4.1k pips were impressive

Jesus christ and you’re even silver compared to my plat.

Kaiser.9873:

In WvW make the reward gain based entirely on WvW play. Do raiders need to WvW/PvP/craft to gain their loot? Do players that do FotM have to WvW/PvP/craft to attain their rewards? So why should WvW players need to craft/PvE to attain theirs?

They do. You want legendary armor, the main draw of raids? Craft. You want non-random boxes from FotM? Craft- you need to craft the exact same marks.

Ignoring the inductive reasoning argument because it doesn’t work;
WvW players need to craft (they don’t need to PvE) because otherwise they’d have an unfair advantage that PvEers and sPvPers don’t have. Why should relatively low-effort WvW play provide better rewards than sPvP ranked play and FotM?

Nevermind that the argument’s undermined in that you can get ascended armor without crafting marks. Get the exotic skinset to unlock the Prestige armor, then buy the Prestige armor, which only requires tickets and Memories of Battle. Cheapest free-stat Ascended armor in the game, outside the timegate and rank requirement.

Akidra.2564:

My suggestion would be the complete removal of the outnumbered buff and make it to where they can get pips based on their server placement in the current match. Loyalty pips and rank pips would also be included.

For example: If a server is in 3rd place, everyone would earn 3 pips. Depending on their rank and loyalty, they would most likely get more. If a server is in 2nd place, they would get 5 pips. And 1st place server would get 7 pips.

These numbers (3, 5, and 7) could be altered in any way. (Please don’t make it 1 pip)

How to convince your playerbase to server stack in one practical step

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

why is everyone acting like this is invisible? I pretty much summed it up…

You reiterated your point as though we don’t understand what it is.

But we do understand what it is. We just disagree with you

Also 6-7 paragraphs of text isn’t really a summation.

Artaz.3819:

The problem is Outmanned PIP bonus is having the exact opposite affect on WvW play.

When WvW #pipstress farmers are on a map, most have a tendency to not call out that a map is outmanned (or wait as long as possible) even though objectives are being taken non-stop including keeps being lost because it hinders their own PIP reward progression.

Secondly, #pipstress farmers are basically afk-in-usefulness players. That #pipstress farmer is there for the reward tick and switch back to whatever map can give them active participation again.

TL;DR Outmanned PIP bonus is detrimental to WvW coordinated team play.

This seems like a really minor issue.

If you have outmanned on your map and it’s strategically prudent to call it, call it. Convince other people to do the same. But expecting the system to be changed because of this seems a bit unreasonable. Pruning out this system because of the chance it’ll cause goofballs to not make calls for defense seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

AFK pip farmers aren’t actually detrimental unless they’re forcing Outmanned to drop on a map with lots of roamer deaths (in which case they’re not getting Outmanned pips anyway) or forcing a mapcap (in which case from whence cometh outmanned). Guys sitting around afk in spawn… Aren’t doing anything, by definition.

I’ve gotten around 250 ranks since the rewards patch.

Deihnyx.6318:

Now, fix the base pip by adding pips where it matters, aka rewards your actual activity. Yeah sure It can lead to karma trains, but now you gotta make a choice, would you rather have players half afking or the potential of karma trains ?

I would rather have players half afking. Rewards on tick is there for a reason. People “half afking” doesn’t actually hurt anyone. Rewards on event screws anyone who isn’t ktraining.

atheria.2837:

Give us our servers back – we didn’t sign up to be linked as an add on to a host server.

No, I moved to Kaineng specifically because it was a link server.

Sylvyn.4750:

While I mostly agree, most vets are arguing they are not in WvW for the rewards, but are quick to prevent anyone else from obtaining them, too. Kind of a double standard, no?

No.

They aren’t there for rewards.
They don’t want people who are there for the rewards to be there.
Your motive for playing WvW should never be “i want the lootz”.

It’s not necessarily a good position but it is internally consistent.

So much Outmanned pip whinging. This is more venting than constructive, but…

Outmanned is there for a reason. It has 5 pips for a reason.

Why do people want it nerfed or removed? Do you not want people to be incentivized to play against you, even if you have an overwhelming advantage?

No thankyou. Condi coverage is already plenty fine as it is.

Slyther.1297:

Doesn’t solve the issue of map hopping and silent call-outs. We need to solve the problem of people feeling like they have to seek and search for the buff, considering it necessary for efficiency when it should just be a bonus.

- It does solve the issue of maphopping
- Silent call-outs are only an ‘issue’ in the context of maphopping
- People playing for Outmanned is an intended consequence of the mechanic

Outmanned pips are fine.

If you’re going to change anything just make it so you need to have been on the map for the previous tick to get Outmanned benefits.

KrHome.1920:

In such scenario you are regularly in a fight with multiple enemies and AOE damage which means your minions die in 2 seconds giving you a 5 second 33% dmg. reduction on a (now) 60 second cooldown. Pretty unterwhelming. Even with almost perma protection I would prefer the Spectral Armor / Shroud combo and not to forget the general Life Force generation effect.

I’m not sure if that’s how the skill works, but a 5 second 33% damage reduction, while you already have a 33% damage reduction from Protection, is actually fairly appealing if it keeps you from going down under pressure. If it’s the difference between you dying and you not dying, it’s a good investment.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

My problem with the pips is that they are passive.

When I play a PvP match, win or lose I will be awarded a certain number of pips at the end of the match – more if I win, less if I lose. I don’t really feel like I’m actually “achieving” these WvW pips, if it makes sense; just sorta passively gaining them. And it’s boring.

Work for ranks instead, then, or for targeting specific objectives.

Simple solution
Don’t die.

morrolan.9608:

Some more feedback. Its probably been said already but how do anet justify T3 armour taking far longer than legendary armour to acquire when its just ascended, albeit good looking ascended armor.

There’s no skill element to it.

Grinding rank and earning pips have no fundamental group or personal skill requirement. There’s no absolute skill required to pip well; you just need to do better than your opponents. You don’t even need to actually play- many people are earning many pips by afking.

You can’t AFK the legendary armor unless you’re obscenely rich. You can’t lowskill the legendary armor unless you’re obscenely rich.

Few things I’ve got to counter in this post. For the most part I agree with the rest of it but this in particular is a major issue. The only other thing worth noting is that you don’t need to pay the skirmish tickets to get the refinement patterns at all; you can do spvp or fractals for those patterns.

Odinens.5920:

1st – you have to have a crafting profession high enough to make these. Now, a lot of you will say “well that’s not hard to do,” and I agree with you, BUT it takes a lot of gold, mats, and time to do. Guess what that means – you now have to spend time doing stuff outside WvW to get to that level, and do you know what THAT means? That means new people won’t be able to spend the time in WvW acquiring those already previously mentioned almost non-existent skirmish claim tickets.

It doesn’t actually take a lot of gold or materials, in the grand scheme of things, to maximize your crafting skills considering the nature of the investment. To completely max out a profession hovers between 40 and 100 gold; the expensive ones are for weapons, not armor. Assuming that you are only clearing your dailies, for an Armorsmith or Tailor, that’s only 20 days worth of clearing dailies and no other sources of income.
We have to keep in mind that this investment is something that every player who intends to get the best gear in their play mode will need to do, including raiders who need it for their legendary armor, and that the investment presents a profit opportunity by processing the materials for sale.

Odinens.5920:

2nd – ok, so you’ve gotten armorsmith to 500 and can make ascended gear….YAY! But wait, let’s look at what it takes to make the marks now……wait a second! Are you seriously telling me that making regular ascended gear and making the T2 ascended gear from WvW share the same time gated account bound mats?!? Guess what…..now you have to decide which route to go. So ok, let’s decide – new WvW player comes in able to make ascended gear, which let’s face it IS a goal for most people, and figures out that the obnoxious amount of time it takes to be able to acquire a full set from WvW is probably at least double what it would take to make a normal ascended set….hmmmmm, wonder which route they’ll take.

Firstly, as far as raw daily requirements go: they are extremely similar, if not equal, in timegating.
Secondly, the nature of the stat-select gear gives them massive advantages in which costs you get to ignore. You are paying large amounts of raw primary materials but for several key WvW sets, particularly Trailblazer’s, you aren’t paying obscene amounts of money to get the Maguuma Lilies you need. You dodge timegating on Celestial and other Charged Quartz-requiring patterns.

PabbyGaul.9682:

I am also curiousnto know if someone could describe the difference between grinding wvw and playing wvw.

The only difference that ever exists in regards to whether something is grind or not is whether you’re having fun.

Elric Of Melnibone.4781:

Dropping the requirement from 2000 to 1500 (with first piece at 1000) would entice more players because at present said carrot is just to far out of reach. Anyone who has 1000 levels has certainly shown their dedication to WvW (or karma training in the mists unfortunately, but that’s another topic).

If you’re looking for short or medium term goals, T3 armor is not it. That’s the job of WvW skills from 1-1000, and T1/T2 armor and weapons.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

All I hear from vet wvw players is that “playing for rewards” is just wrong, plain wrong or completely wrong.

You can play for whatever reasons you like, at the end of the day. There’s nothing wrong with playing for rewards if you so choose. It’s your life and at the end of the day, it’s a video game, so you can do however you feel so long as it doesn’t hurt other people.

That said, it’s not a good position to try to bring to the table because it’s fundamentally self-destructive reasoning:
1. You play a game mode because it has rewards.
2. You stop playing the game mode because it has no more rewards for you.
Assume that the game is better when it has more players in it.
For what reason would ArenaNet ever shorten the gap between 1 and 2? By doing that, they are pushing you out of the game mode earlier, thereby reducing the player count, thereby making the game mode worse. Why would ArenaNet want to make their game worse?

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

I would say the fundamental difference between my opinion in the reward system compared to most others, is that I dislike grind and feel that all grind should be negated by skill. Most wvw vets seem to love grind. And they associate grind as prestige and in some cases as substitution for skill. These 2 viewpoints cannot be reconciled.

Why not get skillful at grinding and learn how to rank up super quick?

Hockey.2417:

The only fair PiP answer is to “Open BG”, it is not fair to them, they can only que 3 of 4 maps 24/7…..“Open BG”

unfair for bg because they can never get outmanned pips. rip

Deihnyx.6318:

- This whole system is done backward: If you play wvw as your main mode your only reward is… to play less. Quite baffling you aren’t asking for more meaningful rewards (discounts, special infusions aura, special high rank commander icon etc).

That’s not really fair. You’re free to continue to play, and the material bags actually seem to have similar chances to the real LS3 bags to get Ascended materials. Two rolls on that table for about 25 minutes play would be nicer if it gave the 10/5 it did real bags, but it isn’t that terrible to do; personally I ended up getting about 2000 pips last week.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

You wvwers continuously attack and try to tell players who play for rewards that they are doing it wrong.

Playing a game mode in which you aren’t having fun, for the rewards, is absolutely the wrong way of going about it.

If you like the mode and play it regularly, you will get these rewards at some point. Maybe not immediately, but that’s fine. You’ll get them some day.

This is still going? Have the arguments gone anywhere or are we circling around?

Pandaman.4758:

Good thing ANet didn’t add PvE reward tracks to PvP to cater to that sort of- oh, wait.

Where are the fractal and raid tracks?

Why not exchange Proofs for Catapults, sell catapults, buy tributes?

What I wonder…
Why not have rankups grant regional scrolls directly?

Expand supply capacity to a total of ten points, make it cost like 3k in total to max out. That’d be good for a giggle.

More seriously, adding more traits would be pretty neat. Wouldn’t mind it at all. Could add some fairly boring ones, even; add another 1% to siege damage and siege reduction taken, make them cost a ton, it’s something to work towards.