Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

That’s funny. I find PvP boring. To each his own.

I really need to try staff out before I make any suggestions, but for starters I think the 3rd hit of the auto-attack chain should hit 5 enemies, similar to other profession weapons like warrior hammer.

As far as some of the staff animations go… well, that’s another subject.

Here are some more styles of dreadlocks that would look great on human males. I’d like to see all of these one day, but the top-right is my fav. I love how it has some stray locs that drape over the shoulders.

Human dudes need better styles! Here’s hoping HoT brings a few to the table.

Tarkan.5609:

btw i’m not allowed to bump the thread anymore, probably gonna get buried under other posts soon

Aw bummer, this is a nicely organized compilation of what eventually needs to be addressed for the thief. Well hopefully Anet has made a note of it so they have it on hand when they have the time to work on stuff like this. In the meantime, if I find any other things to add or comments about thief issues, I’ll bring it here.

Amante.8109:

Seabreeze.8437:

Given that this is an entirely brand new way to fight with an existing weapon, I would’ve thought that a slew of new, fluid and dynamic animations would be part of the package rather than just oddly recycled hammer animations which, as a weapon, is worlds different from a bo staff.

In a perfect world, perhaps. Realistically, someone like Karl is given less than a month to come up with an “elite specialization” for a class they barely play. I’m not putting this on Karl, this is just the reality of modern games development—MMOs even more so.

All of this amounts to stuff slipping through the cracks, whether it’s the little things like new Staff animations, or big stuff like much needed skill/trait revamps.

I get what you’re saying, Amante, but you’re implying that Karl is the sole developer of the entirety of the daredevil. I doubt that he’s the only one that handles everything from concept to programming to animation to balancing and so forth (that sounds like too much power for one person, actually). I’m not going to pretend to know how Anet divides their development team, but I would think that it’s a team of people that works on things like this, not just one single person. Anet isn’t as huge as, say, Blizzard, but I don’t think it’s all that tiny either.

Even if stuff slips through the cracks, I would hope that there is still a chance for certain revisions to be made, if not now then later on. As others have stated, some of the animations admittedly look like placeholders rather than a finished package.

Just to clarify, I think the idea of whirling the staff around for the third auto attack hit is really cool. It just needs to look… well, better. The revenant is a decent example where you spin the staff a bit, then swing it around for a strike. The daredevil can do a similar motion, but in a way that looks more showy since it feels like a “show-off” kind of specialization.

Yes, I’m gonna use Donatello as an example.

I’ve got the witch hat already, but it’d be nice to leave it as a reoccurring Halloween item so that players can get it every year during that holiday event (just like the devil horns and the Mad King outfit). I’d also like the wizard hat to come back, so why not include this as part of Halloween as well?

^ Um, that’s cool, but I think the subject of this thread is the animation of the auto-attack, not its function and usefulness. It looks terrible and is so underwhelming compared to how the old animation looked.

Gabriell.4856:

No Monkey King No Buy HOT

Lol, well I wouldn’t go that far, but Monkey King animations would be sweet!

Vornollo.5182:

The animations would have to be made from scratch though (atleast for Asura and Charr).
The bonestructure that was/is used for the Monkey King are quite different from the bonestructure used by player models (not to mention issues in size variations).

It seems similar to the standard Human/Sylvari stucture, but I fear this is a much bigger task than you would think.
I’d rather have them spend that time on more pressing matters.

Given that this is an entirely brand new way to fight with an existing weapon, I would’ve thought that a slew of new, fluid and dynamic animations would be part of the package rather than just oddly recycled hammer animations which, as a weapon, is worlds different from a bo staff.

Yes, balancing and numbers are priority, but aesthetics are important too and deserve attention when it is needed.

Amante.8109:

Several Staff skills feel like placeholder animations. Please don’t let it go live that way.

That’s exactly what I was thinking. They really do look like placeholder animations even down to the combat stance (2-handed hammer? Really?).

Hey, it looks like they ninja fixed the cluster bomb detonation bug! Right on!

Check it out, Tarkan, and if it’s all good, you can scratch that off the list. Now I wonder what else may have been fixed.

In addition to the dreadlocks we’ve already got here, I think it’d be cool to have some styles that are decorated with things like beads, ties, seashells, etc. Again, these can all be unisex as well.

Other races have already been getting hairstyles that include decorations in them, like asura, norn, and charr. Let’s get some accessories for the humans as well, including males!

Yeah, as far as the auto attack chain goes, I definitely think it needs a revision. As the OP stated, that baton twirl just doesn’t look right.

Alpha.1308:

also, staff skill 3 “Debilitating Arc” looks just as dumb, it’s just a bash with a faster-than-normal-basic-dodge-roll backward, like, where are you even getting that momentum from while moving your body forward like that,especially when used without an enemy to push off from

Oh heck yes, Alpha, I totally agree with you. Just like with the auto-attack, when I saw staff skill #3, I thought “what the hell is that? Is it supposed to look like that?” Lol, it seriously looks like you glitch out or something, it’s so awkward. A move like that would’ve looked better as an uppercut with the staff followed by a retreating side flip from the momentum. The way it is now looks way to obvious that they were desperate to recycle animations.

While we’re on the subject, staff #4 should be a sweep, not a scoop. Also, vault looks pretty good, but as the name implies, the player should actually vault with the staff rather than just… jump.

As happy as I am about the staff, I can’t help but feel like it deserves more attention to detail in the animations. It’s a brand new way to use the staff, Anet should pull out all the stops to make it look awesome!

Amante.8109:

We’ll be lucky if we can even get Karl to answer a few questions on the forum. An in-game guild meeting is just not happening.

This is pretty much my thoughts on the matter. I think they just prefer to browse the forums and gather ideas while keeping communication to a minimum. Not saying that’s good or bad because that’s a whole other discussion, but that seems to be their MO.

What if you have 21 people that wanna play?

As some people have already stated, I think it’s going to have a rocky start, but eventually smooth out into something cool later on. That’s just my thoughts on the matter.

Zero Day.2594:

I don’t think he even has to say anything, more like sit there and gather info…

They can do that just fine here on the forums though.

Yeah, the first thing I thought when I saw it was “well that looks weird.” They just kind of… hold their hands forward… and the staff just floats there… twirling. Maybe that’s just how sylvari females do it? I’m hoping that human males are a little more dynamic than that. Otherwise I wouldn’t mind a revamp in animations to make it look more flashy.

I still absolutely can’t wait to try this out next weekend, though!

Amante.8109:

I would love to see some new animations for DD, but let’s be honest… the expansion is less than two months away. Unless it’s a good preexisting animation, you shouldn’t expect any animation changes.

If we have to have recycled animations, though, I’d like to see more Monkey King elixir ones. Those generally look cooler than most profession’s staff animations.

I hear ya, but hopefully this could be the exception given how much feedback people have been giving on the animations alone. I definitely agree with everyone saying that the Monkey King animations would be better suited for the daredevil.

Amante.8109:

I strongly believe the Initiative increase and Steal CDR decrease should both be made baseline, as they contribute in a vital way both to every other trait line and the general modus operandi of the Thief.

Definitely agree. I feel like I can’t leave out Trickery because what it brings is literally too good to pass up.

Conncept.7638:

Seabreeze.8437:

I think ele sword and thief rifle are pretty much necessary if we don’t want another forum war on our hands, and this is coming from someone who is totally satisfied with thieves getting melee staff.

Gonna be a while, tho.

Most of the ele community would be fine with warhorn, if its mechanics weren’t something we already have, which we don’t don’t use because ANet nerfed it out of viability in their blind crusade against the DD Ele.

You’re probably right, but I think a lot of people really liked the idea of a battle mage, which I’ll admit is pretty cool. We’ll just have to see what happens. Now that the concept of elite specs are out in the open, we can expect to see SO MUCH more theory-crafting in regards to new specializations.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Thank you. And yes we can’t demand but we can ask. The more dev time we can get the better.

Agreed. I’m actually pretty sad that my Ricochet thread got locked after so many views and posts, but really I think everything that could’ve been said has been said.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Ricochet-gone/first

Don’t get me wrong, yolo, I still want a rifle spec, but honestly it’s for a different reason. I’m hoping for an elite spec that helps firearms as a whole, because I love my main dual pistol thief and want P/P to be brought up to a better light. A Gunslinger type elite spec would be such a good opportunity for that. Sorry if I changed the subject, I’m just passionate about dual pistols and would rather see it improved rather than replaced.

Alright, I’ll stay on topic, but as I said, I think having a live meeting—while good in theory—just has too much risk to subjecting the devs to rudeness from the players. All it takes is for one person to shout “HEY DEV WHY DO YOU SUCK” to wreck the whole thing.

I know it’s become a bit of a running gag that the devs aren’t too active around here (especially on the thief forums), but with all the animosity going on, who can blame them?

I’ll say what I’ve said numerous times already. I’m confident that the devs do in fact read the forums, even though they don’t reply very much. All we can realistically hope for is that they continue to read them and bring these ideas to the table whether they implement them or not. We can’t demand a response out of them.

I still think this is a bad idea. The forums are just fine for thief feedback. Participating in a live guild meeting is just asking it to turn into something confrontational. Why do you think they are so selective in the threads they reply to? Heck, that gif you used alone, comedic or not, is indicative of being pushy and borderline rude.

Also…

yolo swaggins.2570:

There you go twisting my words. No, I don’t need to be a dev to understand people. If you can’t accept the facts I presented to you and you want to get all emotional, that’s on you.

That seems to be your response to everything. I think you’re the one getting emotional and not accepting facts, broski. I’ve tried to be diplomatic about the issue (heck, I was hoping for rifle for a long time until I saw the potential in melee staff, but you don’t seem to care about that). You just can’t get over that the thief hasn’t been molded to your exact image.

Sure the thief profession needs work, just like all the professions. There’s always room for improvement, but this elite spec looks like a good start to me. Just because it’s not exactly what you wanted it to be doesn’t make it useless. As I said, for PvE, the staff is gonna be great. Maybe it won’t be that great in PvP, maybe it will. We haven’t even gotten to try it and you’re already dismissing it.

You really just need to calm down and get of your high horse.

PS: I’m not derailing the thread, I just think it isn’t a good idea

I think ele sword and thief rifle are pretty much necessary if we don’t want another forum war on our hands, and this is coming from someone who is totally satisfied with thieves getting melee staff.

Gonna be a while, tho.

Karendun.5892:

Bojoo.7819:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Staff-holding-animation/first#post5429119

Monkey king animation, it’s already in game and its perfect.

Exactly —> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGZmauye5Is

The monkey animation is awesome!

Absolutely yes for Monkey King, at least for daredevils anyway. The revenant could use a stance that looks more disciplined, but I think all the Monkey King animations would suit thieves perfectly.

I wouldn’t say it’s too late to reveal them. We still have about a month and a half or so until HoT releases. They can give us both elite specs in like, 2-3 weeks and still let us have a beta weekend to test them out.

+1 as well from me. The moment staff was confirmed I had a feeling they’d just recycle most of the hammer animations despite how good thieves would look with the Monkey King animations (stance, running, jumping, etc). The hammer just… doesn’t look like the proper way to hold a bo staff… like, at all. The hammer is a large heavy weapon whereas the bo staff is lightweight and nimble, the two shouldn’t share stance animations.

I know it’s not as simple as copy/paste the Monkey King animations onto the player, but I would’ve thought that there’d be a little more attention to detail in the animations given that this is a brand new way to fight with staves.

I really have to try it out for myself next week. It looks like tons of fun, but I can’t help but feel that some of the animations are lacking due to recycling animations.

As I’ve said a number of times already, staff looks awesome, but it needs more Monkey King. Or at least less hammer animations. Think Kilik from Soul Calibur (like what Leviathan posted above me).

I thought this was supposed to end the fighting…

In any case, I’m super excited for staff. It looks as though it was designed for PvE, which is precisely what I play, so it totaly works for me. I couldn’t be happier (well, the animations could be better tbh, but it still looks good).

CuteLilKittenHugz.2064:

Seabreeze.8437:

… I’m also hoping that there’s enough ideas in this thread and others so that Anet can start drumming up a Gunslinger elite spec when they’re ready to work on the next batch of elite spec lines.

Seabreeze, respect for starting this thread, but IMHO this thread needs to stay on the topic of needing Ricochet back. Not “changes I’d like to see to thief weapons” or “what would be a good replacement other than Ricochet”. It should continue to be people voicing their opinions on the title of the thread: Ricochet…gone?

People have voiced their discontent with the removal of Ricochet on this thread over and over, and the ONLY way we’re going to get it back, is to continue to voice our discontent. That’s how – let’s see rough guess – 90% of the changes in this game came to be: people whining and complaining.

Is it mature? Patient? Doesn’t matter. It’s what works and obviously the overwhelming response on this thread is that Ricochet needs to be put back in the game. So we gotta stick to what works.

True, but what if the devs are adamant about not bringing Ricochet back (or at least bringing it back exactly as it was)? If they’ve put their foot down on this, then there’s nothing we can say that’ll bring it back. That’s why I’m wracking my brain trying to come up with alternative ways to keep our once-beloved AoE DPS and sustain. Personally I like the idea of having a trait like Ricochet function like the DH’s longbow AA where it bounces to enemies behind your target. I tried the DH, and that mechanic seemed so forgiving that I could swear some of those arrows actually bounced forward.

I miss Ricochet terribly, and I think (and hope) that Anet knows this by now. If they actually do bring it back the way it was before, that’d be a pleasant surprise. Otherwise, we may have no choice but to consider alternatives, and I’d be satisfied with a new version of the Ricochet trait that had that bouncing behind your target mechanic.

Also, I liked having the 10% damage bonus before it was lumped with Ankle Shots.

Some of the animations looked a bit wonky tbh, like Debilitating Arc. It seems jerky… I think something more like a sweeping uppercut with the staff followed by a twisting side flip might’ve looked more fluid. Weakening Charge looked nice and smooth, no complaints there. Auto-attack could be flashier, but that’s no big deal. Dust strike seems like it should be a sweep rather than a scoop, but again no big deal there. Also, I wonder if using the heartseeker animation would be better for the Bounding Dodge rather than reusing the staff vault. Speaking of staff vault, I wonder if all races will do a back flip… It’d be cool if human males did more of a twisting front flip and actually vaulted off the staff instead of simply jumping.

As you can see, most of my minor critiques are in the visuals. All in all it looks really fun, and I love the focus on evading rather than pure stealth. Would be nice to be able to hit 5 targets on the last hit of the AA chain though.

Can’t wait to try this out for myself!

Me after watching the daredevil POI.

It’s only a few days after my birthday!

Vax Tezhme.7128:

I’m really excited by the Daredevil. We’ll see how it plays of course, but the spec seems like it was designed specifically for me

That’s exactly how I feel as well, especially getting a melee staff as a weapon!

Yay! POI is today! Here’s hoping its got awesome animations to go along with it!

Tarkan.5609:

Seabreeze.8437:

Tarkan.5609:

Seabreeze.8437:

Tarkan.5609:

Updated the one fix in this patch… much bug fix, such wow

I know right? Oh well… I’m still excited for the elite spec.

Same here but I’d be more excited if we got some bug fixes first – and some changes to trait lines/skills that need it (acrobatics, tricks,…)

Yeah, the bugs should really be taken care of. For me, I find the most annoying bug is that cluster bomb one. I know there are more important bugs that actually affect the functionality of the thief, but man, it throws me off a lot if I’m spamming that move (as in, it makes me think I missed the last-second point of detonating the arrow and am simply firing another shot, so I end up standing still for a couple seconds until I realize that the shot actually clustered and it’s not another arrow).

Yeah i understand but after the last patch I rarely detonate it anyway, so that’s nothing that influences me too much.

I’ve been playing thief since launch, but admittedly I’ve stuck with my P/P + S/P weapon set. I recently made an alt that uses SB and soon to be staff, so I’m a bit new to the shortbow scene. Can I ask what exactly happened to the detonate skill in the last patch? I’m just curious.

freeman.7315:

So we got our staff specc,it looks like it can be beneficial to P/P builds,but still nothing on Ricochet?! Karl,you are without a doubt the worst dev in Anet,you should get fired,completely out of tune with the thief,removing vital traits like its nothing.And then we dont even get a answer from you people WHY did you do it. kitten you dude

It’s frustrating… but callously insulting the devs is neither making our case nor making us look very mature as the thief community. I’d rather this thread not get locked because of posts like this.

I’m super excited for this new elite spec (can’t wait to try out staff), but I’m also hoping that there’s enough ideas in this thread and others so that Anet can start drumming up a Gunslinger elite spec when they’re ready to work on the next batch of elite spec lines.

Waterseer.7089:

Please tell me I’m not the only person who thinks of Kilik from Soul Calibur.

You’re not the only one. I’m actually thinking of Xiba as well from Soul Calibur V.

Maugetarr.6823:

Seabreeze.8437:

I’m actually pretty disappointed that they just recycled the 2-handed hammer stance, as it doesn’t really seem like an appropriate way to hold a melee staff. I’m not really surprised though, seeing as how it’s like that for the revenant. Hopefully the other animations will be new and exciting.

For the most part, I’m really hoping that “Vault” is actually a staff vault rather than just a jump. It has the potential to be such a cool-looking skill!

It could be a modified/recycled heartseeker animation where you do a mid air side flip thingy and then slam the ground with the end of the staff.

Honestly I’d prefer to see more new animations rather than recycled ones, especially for a weapon style as unique as a melee staff. However, a side-flip maneuver as you said wouldn’t be terrible. It’d certainly be better than using the engineers rifle blast jump. That’d look just plain dumb.

Hype Is Real

New Favorite Weapon

Must Play Now

Hope Animations Rock

Heaven or Hell

SenorMoody.5908:

It seems like its gonna be very fun!
I just really hope that they got the animations right.

Agreed. I can’t wait to give our new elite spec a whirl, but I hope there are some really awesome animations to go along with the staff.

I’m actually pretty disappointed that they just recycled the 2-handed hammer stance, as it doesn’t really seem like an appropriate way to hold a melee staff. I’m not really surprised though, seeing as how it’s like that for the revenant. Hopefully the other animations will be new and exciting.

For the most part, I’m really hoping that “Vault” is actually a staff vault rather than just a jump. It has the potential to be such a cool-looking skill!

yolo swaggins.2570:

Thank you Karl for this gift. THIS is the direction thief needs. Oh god… the tears… they will flow endlessly. My buckets are ready.

It’s refreshing to see you post something positive like this, but perhaps this is also a good lesson for you to not judge things before they’re revealed. I mean, you openly insulted those that were showing an interest in the elite spec (even going so far as to say they don’t care about thieves and are ruining the profession), and now you’re singing its praises saying it’s exactly what thief needs.

I know your stance on melee staff, and I know you hated the hype for it, but now you see that the elite spec brought much more than just a staff (which I’m still excited about, btw).

Apologies. I don’t mean to imply “I told you so,” because we still don’t know how concrete these are (as in, certain things could be nerfed, but hopefully not). I’ll say again though that it’s quite a surprise to see you posting something positive about our new elite spec.

So soon! I’m so excited it’s unreal!

Gimmie that staff!

Alex.9268:

Sykper.6583:

Uh,

You know, I was kind of expecting a 5 person cleave on the Staff…

Me too

Me three, at least on the last hit of the AA chain and the blinding sweep move. Maybe there’ll be enough suggestions after the 2nd BWE that we’ll get some more 5 person cleaves on it. I really have to test it out to see what it can do.

PopeUrban.2578:

I like how people are saying “It’ll just get nerfed and be useless”

You know, as if this isn’t a clear indication that they’ve decided that the nerfs to theif evasion were heavy handed and that they consider this to be a viable counter in a world where all the other elite specs live.

Do you really think they’d nerf acro, then design acro 2.0, if they were going to just return us back to the status quo?

Their thinking probably went like this:

Acro is “too good”

Old Acro style wouldn’t be “too good” as an elite spec since they couldn’t combo it with other elite specs we have planned (gunslinger, shadow mage, other ranged style E-Specs)

They’re going to complain about acro being made redundant.

We’ll just try to explain to them why.

They’ll hate it anyway.

They’re thieves. They hate everything we do. Compile and release.

Those are interesting points. I wish more people on the forums were as rational as you are.

Kocoff.7582:

Maybe it’s time we get over it. It’s been 2 days, and i am already sick of hearing that argument.
FACT : DAREDEVIL TRAIT = Acrobatics 2.0 .Now deal with it.

Is it a scam?
Is HoT expansion now worth $20 and a foot massage?
Is this ethical?
Is it a digusting marketing move?
Is it a nasty cover up?

Doesn’t really matter.. at the end of the day it’s a matter of perception.

But let me ask you this, what is your goal in GW2?

I pretty much just want to have fun with my thief. I want to kill people and escape tight situations and maybe do this with friends. then kill more people, rinse and repeat. From to times and I am like “probably time to craft that ascended armor” .. and go back to killing.

Maybe you can say that It doesn’t require a lot to please me. but guess what. So be it.

I think You are psychologically ruining your fun by thinking “this is scam, can’t believe they did that.” or “Staff is a useless weapon.” and you will end up not having fun during BWE not because of Thief related problems, but mostly because of your negativity.

This isn’t politics guys. I would understand if one politician you supported is a closet kitten … Now then, we could argue about ethics, and lies and trickery. Or Government promised A but ended doing the complete contrary.

HOWEVER, this is a video games, a formidable one at that, and talking about wether a trait is a scam or not, really shouldn’t affect your fun with your favorite character. Anet does whatever they want with their characters to be honest, and most importantly they made those changes so we can have fun and they can have money.

Conclusion: Don’t let trivial talks like this ruin your love the Thief. Trust me, IT IS acrobatics 2.0. but idgaf, It is not going to prevent me from rupturing mesmer lungs

Will you let Anet AND you to prevent yourself from enjoying your efforts on your Thief? So be it.

+1 My thoughts exactly. I’d be lying if I said I thought the thief profession was perfect, but I’d also be lying if I said I didn’t enjoy the class. All in all, I’m pumped for this elite spec and weapon!

sebradle.7034:

Is this the thread where we are not raging like a bunch of two year olds? Traits and staff look really fun gonna be awesome.

I sure hope so. I can’t wait for the full POI episode!

The hype… it is real.

Tarkan.5609:

Seabreeze.8437:

Tarkan.5609:

Updated the one fix in this patch… much bug fix, such wow

I know right? Oh well… I’m still excited for the elite spec.

Same here but I’d be more excited if we got some bug fixes first – and some changes to trait lines/skills that need it (acrobatics, tricks,…)

Yeah, the bugs should really be taken care of. For me, I find the most annoying bug is that cluster bomb one. I know there are more important bugs that actually affect the functionality of the thief, but man, it throws me off a lot if I’m spamming that move (as in, it makes me think I missed the last-second point of detonating the arrow and am simply firing another shot, so I end up standing still for a couple seconds until I realize that the shot actually clustered and it’s not another arrow).