Guild Wars 2

If all they do is stay in stealth to apply condis, they won’t have burst conditions and my Warhorn 5 will outheal their damage. If they do come out even once, I can “Sic’em” and kill them in those 6 seconds. Balance?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNBMhV6kSFoVQslFwkFgrFMkJUehv4N+XDR+E3JbAcAZM0JzgA-TJRGwAKOFAAeCAg2fAaZAA

Basically, dodge uptime+regen= Power builds are down. The on demand (smart) condi clear is also rather handy. If you feel less safe on this than I do (haven’t lost 1v1 to any class, including Cele) then you can trait Taunt over Zephyr as your BM GM as well as swap sigils of rage for generosity. =) Have fun.

What do you do? (yes, you even have the power to give baseline 9000 vitality if you so desire) You get 5 minutes to list changes that they will implement.

Here’s mine (im trying to be optimistic):

1)Up Backstab damage to be equal to Eviserate (idk what the coefficients are, but Evi always hits harder on my warrior than my BS on Thief)

2)Replace Death Blossom with Rook Takes Knight (RtK is a shadowstep behind target enemy, 900 range, 45% of current BS damage, faces you towards enemy’s back, hits 4 times so that venom builds don’t lose too much)

3)Double bleed duration on pistol

4)P/D 3 now applies 4 stacks torment and 2 stacks burn

5)Our Quickness trait icd is reduced to something more modern (Ranger has 15 sec icd with 3 second active, BM GM trait for reference)

6)Take away cast time on Sword 2 return (stun break)

7)Change Cloak and Dagger to some kind of skill that people can’t just backstep outta (so annoying they take 2 steps back after you get cripple/chill then you lose 6 init)

8) Trickster removes 2 conditions instead of 1 and now grants swiftness (or some random useful boon)

9) Shortbow 5 is now an aoe field (like SB4) that inflicts Confusion and Burn. same animations too, it just pulses purple

10) Reduce our utility cooldowns across the board (180 second TG is just bogus)

11) Baseline Preparedness

12) Sleight of Hand now also gives Thief 1 stack of stability pre-cast (so that the stun reflects on Mesmer and Necro do not kill us harder than we daze them)

13) Bugfix the bajeezus outta Daredevil

14) Vault has 3/4 cast time and you evade during that time

15) Up dagger auto damage to rival Necro auto damage on daggers

You guys?

To help others transition-

D/P can be played similarly on Mesmer with S/T
S/D is now actually called ranger and you have more dodge uptime and invuln periods
P/P is now better performed by warrior
S/P is more efficient on Revenant
Shortbow is unmatched

…gg.

I will roll Revenant because having “unblockable” combos that 100-0 anyone not wearing full tank is just hilarious. I don’t even have to trait defensively….

We wouldn’t be so squishy if any one of our lines offered boons like protection, stability, aegis, or resistance. But no we only get Swiftness and might and quickness (also the WORST access to quickness outside of ele and necro. even worse than a friggin sigil .-.). Meh salt levels, they rise. Excuse me.

So Dev interaction with Ranger is on par with Thief. =) Want to join our club guys? I came to post an op condi build (op used jokingly, I was laughing really hard when someone triggered the whole set up though) but you guys are where we are. offers a comforting touch We feel your pain.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAV3fjEqQ7K2rCmsAVLGYEqv1X9UvjgaNp5C4yDgU+VIg6F-TJhAABws/A0XEAyKDAwTAAA

I just want them to allow us to buy other races dances. I want the Sylvari dance on my Asura or my Human, but I can only get it on Sylvari. =( This is sad. How do you swap it, you ask? Same way you swap minis or mail carriers, just click the one you want once you unlock it. It would be account bound (you have to buy them to have them on nons, but you still get base. meaning while you can human dance, if you didn’t buy your charr cannot human dance still.). Just my wish list for this christmas. I’d pump 400 gems for this kinda genius =)

I usually don’t care about it since I run max damage (meaning I kill faster than a stomp) but the Ele downed bug bugs me. Goes from 20-80% hp - but then my Eviscerate does 10k and we are all good again.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

I don’t get how the 5k hammer auto attacks, could have been done in pvp. Using Hammer bolt in HoT (both on trash mobs , and bosses) in full zeker gear, yield 1700-2500 damage attacks. (Never a single one above 3000), and here you guys are showing off 5000+ damage strikes. And yes I often had full might stacks to boot!

To me sounds like an exploitable damage bonus trait, that triggers to often, but that only pvp people use (like next attack after blocked attack is stronger, perhaps it’s bugged).

It’s a trait for whenever an attack gets blocked/evaded/missed, the next one does 50% extra damage. I can’t remember what line it was on, but that number almost certainly can go down to 20-25%. 50% is waaay high by any standard. Of course, I want a buff in another area as my off main will ABSOLUTELY be revenant with how fun she was. However, that damage coefficient was nuts. I would intentionally get my hammer auto blocked, then use hammer 2 to pump out about 7.6-8.2k. It was beautiful -

Yet no one cares about elementalist downed bug. K, thx, bai. =P

Thief is anything but a “free kill”.

There, i denied it.

There should be more thief playstyles though[/quote]

And you are the first. Congratulations. First part, I said I was summarizing. Second bit, it may not be literally free- but its pretty darn close. I one shot a Thief with a Haste Whirling Axe on my Warrior (quickness will forever be Haste to me, sorry, FFAT has ruined it forever). I single shatter bursted several more. One Rapid fire followed by knock back and stealth stomp. I can describe all of them, but thief only excels at mobility. In fact, if it weren’t for Shortbow 5 I’d say Guardian has more mobility. Crazy, right? Better part is, I made good on that by promising a friend I’d get him a 2400 range assassination spec >.> Can’t believe it worked. ahem Where was I?

I know very few people read or acknowledge my posts (especially considering, the trait incident post aside..was cranky, I am very rarely wrong on anything) but I figure, might as well solve this awkward dispute right ^.^

Currently, Thief is a free kill. No party has denied this.
Thief has massive mobility from literally a SINGLE skill. Everything else is just class emphasizing. No one has denied this.
Many thieves (myself included) have stated that we would give up our shortbow 5 skill (that massive op mobility =P) for some actual balance, buffs, and versatility.

To the important and odd bits. The argument seems to be getting confused. No thief wants to play d/p anymore. Sick, tired, bored, verge of uninstalling. Reason? D/p<->SB DA/SA/TR Vamp/Pack runes. 95% of thieves are playing this build, 99% of thieves are playing D/P weapon set. .6% and .4% is S/D and P/D respectively. Now isn’t that interesting to you non-thief bashers? You are massively traumatized and terrified of thieves being able to contest you. What’s comical, especially to people like me, is that YOU ARE NOT READING WHAT WE THIEVES ARE SAYING. Has to stop.

Thief is the LEAST versatile class in the game, both by weapons and by traits. I hear people arguing Engi and Ele because they look at weapons and seem to forget conjured weapons and kits. Thief? We have a Dagger, Sword, Pistol, and Shortbow. We also used to passively gain damage for dodging or using stealth, now that is gone. We didn’t even get a trade-off like other professions, our SA and Acro were just nerfed. Hard. “But your vigor is better”. Feline Grace for this. Then Feline Grace resold to us for the xpac. If you think we aren’t salty on that, read the other posts. I want a new minor to be quite honest and feline grace returned to old. Alas, no one really plays Thief and no one really nurtures Thief. If you played Daredevil, you will have seen tons of re-used animations and tons of bugs. Far more than I observed on Tempest or Berserker, and those were the new ones as well.

Thief players, like myself, or asking not for buffs. For versatility. For being allowed to play the game differently. I feel like, at times, I am playing Pokemon. With a Magikarp. I can press Splash, Tackle, or Flail. Unfortunately, that’s all I have. I don’t have anything but 6 Magikarp, like some terrible dream. Meanwhile all other professions seem to have an entire team of Electric-Types. If you have no idea what I’m talking about (and I admit, this is kind of vague), look it up. Ask if you have to. Thief needs versatility. Unfortunately, this means changing weapon sets. Pistol pistol needs an almost entire rework, miscellaneous skills need to be made into other things (Death Blossom, seriously. Even condi players don’t use this skill for anything other than it’s multihit), and our trait lines need to just be fixed. Full discussions have been made else where, I am not sure why the argument is here in PvP. No half competent player even remotely argues what Thief’s role is anymore- to decap and provide a +1. But don’t you remember on release, we had some other role. Some other responsibility. Oh! That’s right. We were tasked with fighting other players on our own. Oh goodness me, I almost forgot. Now if we play on equal skill as other players, we get thrashed silly and mindlessly. I see so many mistakes, but the thing is I can no longer punish them. I rolled Thief because it had the capability I seek most in PvP games- to punish other players for bad plays. I was able to do that back in 2013, suddenly 2015 rolls around and if I engage anyone they can just turn and faceroll me dead? Yet, no one finds that odd. Oh well, have fun being in whatever frame of mind this is, hope my post helps you see the light of truth more. Perhaps it won’t, but I did just summarize roughly 140 posts.

Our issue isn’t numbers, it’s application. With my damage numbers, I was using the utilities and applying 8 (ID) to 13 (Takedown)k damage. It’s just sticking to someone long and hard enough that your skills connect because a lot of the time flurry went on cd, daggers got obstructed, takedown got set on cooldown…. I’d suggest a cripple on Takedown elite and on Fist flurry, that does NOTHING towards damage but does increase reliability. Oh and if the elite was ~intended~ to kill people below 10% hp without downing them, that’s fantastic. If it was a bug, leave it. We need this very much.

If they also clean the after-casts, and the pre-cast issues, then finish with making dodges dodge instead of dodges cast (they were coded as skills, you probably noticed too) then this spec is very reliable. I’d even say powerful.

Last thing, I agree on Kumion. I played Rev this beta weekend and I had to stop with how disgusting I felt. If I made a spec with a purpose, NOTHING stopped that purpose. 100-0 assassinations, condi removal and pressure, unkillable nature, team support. If they can clean an entire spec AND profession up to that kind of standard, then DD should work. On top of that, not any single team will work alone because of how much they put into this expansion. As a company, it isn’t a good idea to let ANY part of a new product become unreliable or outdated upon release. Daredevil will work, and with luck they will read our feedback.

Just my 2 cents of course.

Ahem cough cough http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoaVlsMhOnYhTwxJw/EHwEkPMxpN7Os8UoTQA2NA-TpRBwAROBAX3fYxhAgcZAAHBgHPAAA

Never seen a 6k backstab before, I assume it’s cuz I’m amazing =P

Imo, the emphasis on supply was too high. Doorbreakers break doors and archers do amazing things if you get 10 of them together (seriously, just spam these guys in 10 people waves and they kinda just…win. its weird that they suck pre-10 though) otherwise just send someone to clear guards then spam doorbreakers. A good way to encourage fighting other players is if killing a player spawned an npc. Like door 1 is DB, door 2 is archer, door 3 is killed player spawn, door 4 is mist hero (invisible door, watch they spawn between arch and portal) and door 5 is portal. Maybe spawn a hunter? Instead of pushing lanes mindlessly, they will push then stealth and attack players (like Skelk). It would be far more interesting and would probably encourage pvp over pve rush.

Would really be nice if they added Skelk when you killed a player. Would be really really nice if you got mobs for doing things. Break a treb, spawn a Shade. Kill a guard, spawn a doorbreaker. Break a door, spawn an archer. Kill a player, spawn a Skelk. It makes the game more interesting imo. And while it sounds like it’d make it more pve, it makes it more pvp and victory oriented. By pushing the map or defending, you gain mobs that will push lanes. Or at least, that’s my opinion. I never had problems with the pve bit, I just run over and murder a player to steal their supply and clear 1 or 2 of the mobs. Killing a pve mob grants 1 supply to spawn another mob. So on so forth.

Revenant has options to every situation, but dies rapidly to super hard engages. Very consistently on that. You just have to recognize what stance they are in.
Ventari- Heal support
Dragon- boon support/condi support
Shiro- assassination/stick
Mallyx- displacement/condi bomber/condi surviver
Dwarf- unknown. it does something, but I honestly don’t know. its the one I didn’t use
Sword- damage, range, pierce, evade, block, control
Mace- condi
Axe- gapclose, control
Hammer- range, high damage, projectile deflect
Staff- melee beater

Tons of things to survive light engagements and to reflect damage if you back off for any length of time. Stolen item would have to be a way to get in and be impossible for them to get off. Unfortunately, the only thing I can think of sounds stupid op.

[insert name involving mist]:
Charge at target unit, shadow stepping and apply high damage. Stun on impact, gain might stability and protection (5 might, 2 stab, 3 sec prot). This skill is unblockable and cannot be evaded.
Damage= Larcenous Strike (the Sword 3, part 2)
Range= 600
Cast time 1/4 second
Stun time 1/4 second
Evade: until you hit target

Precisely. Also, I just realized how crappy our quickness trait is. Ranger gets 3 seconds of quickness every 15 seconds just because they have a pet and Mesmer has near perma quickness via chronomancer and/or interrupts.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAWVnsMBVmidmCePBkmiFwiyLAigGYLEXrRcu3H+lH-TJBEwAJuEAp2fAwTAIbZAA
And now once all the bugs/QoL get fixed I will use this set. It took me 3 days >.< That is really embarrassing on my part but , still proud I figured out how to make my own playstyle from this thing.

Breakdown:
Shortbow is required and so is trickery because of preparedness (otherwise I would honestly pick any other line, but just because of preparedness I need this line…which sucks). Staff cuz DD, DD cuz DD, Crit Strikes because you will generate fury when you start the kill combo (which thus far no one has survived =D)

Heal->Steal->Auto (that’s QoL I can’t chain the animations together, steal breaks auto)->Daggers->Palm Style Taijutsu-> Vault->Pulm->take em down. Rinse and repeat within 20-25 seconds for maximum results. The Haste+trickery trait is just because I found it helpful to enter fights with a speed kill when I could. You can trait what you want ofc.

What builds did you people get around to making that worked for you?

Edit: We have the worst quickness trait wtf. Check Ranger, Warrior, and Mesmer for reference. Apparently they can be more assassin-esque than us…

VERY IMPORTANT AND RELATED SECONDARY THREADS:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Daredevil-bug-reporting/first#post5462490
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Daredevil-animation-feedback-propostion

Going to link this to the MAIN thread so dev’s dont lose it.

Dodge acts like a skill: Cost 1 initiative, 50 endurance, has pre- and after-cast, proc’s confusion, has issues with body block, and Bound cannot be used to “double jump”. Means for world exploration and jumping puzzles, I’d have to take off any GM in DD.

All of the utilities cost 1 initiative to use per hit. Distracting daggers is free to charge, but to throw is 1 init. Fist flurry ended early on my 2 init because it ran outta spending points (that was awkward). So on so forth.

Weakening Charge threw me off skyhammer. I was aiming at Point C targeted player, but was facing the wrong way and I died.

Dust Strike has a tendency not to land any damage.

Vault’kittenbox is actually smaller than displayed. Found that out the hard way.

Even Pistol/Pistol functions better than Staff.

The daredevil trait line is fine, perfect. The staff, utilities, and new dodges are problematic. 25% there =D yippee.

Bugs first:
Staff- animations are slow, you get stuck in aftercast so often it makes you laugh. Most of the skills are bugged in some way like 2 sending you off into Narnia even though the target is sitting in Australia, the 3 sometimes not applying damage or not even rolling (that happened… I got evades but the stick poked and then… I blurred?), the 4 will sometimes fail to hit or will apply repeated hits usually missing, and the 5 misses despite people being in your hitbox. There’s Staff.
Fist Flurry rarely connects 100%. You can’t chain to anyone because stun breaks and stun reflects are a thing. Impairing Daggers got obstructed at point blank range, that was memorable. Happened once, so yea- mighta just been a thing. Takedown is beautiful, if you use ANYTHING while it’s holding the second or third charge it will go on full cooldown. Meaning I used the hit for a stun to land fist flurry and I lost my stomp >.<
The dodges all have aftercasts and stick you in one spot. All the dodges proc Confusion. I have yet to get the heal on evade, but maybe I need to pay attention?

Solutions: Staff auto needs no aftercasts. Staff 2 works like Heartseeker. Staff 3 should be fine, I think it was my camera pointed at the ground. Staff 4 needs to start working correctly. Staff 5 needs animation cast time REDUCED ~~~AND~~~ it needs to evade until you land. As it is staff 5 gets me killed more often than it lands. That’s not counterplay, that’s a please kill me now thing. The dodges need new animations that do not root you at the beginning and end, AND THAT THEY WORK WITH DOUBLE JUMP (dodge+jump simultaneously is important on jumping puzzles and world exploration, so far bound does not work with it making me assume the others don’t either). Fist Flurry needs to immobilize 1 second (not stun, stun reflects are a thing). Impairing daggers is fine, I am not sure what happened there. Distracting daggers need damage…it hits like a whiff of febreeze, and again stun reflects/breaks. Takedown needs to work like distracting daggers, I want to save this for stomps not try to project my damage for a kill or use it when they are downed and my build gave me quickness anyway.

=) Decided to make this more constructive after more testing. D/P still murders staff daredevil, and s/d DD is kinda…meh? You run full defensive traits and offensive sigils and sometimes people die XD

I made a really funny rant post, but then realized it’d probably get deleted or something like the really funny Nerf Wish List.

The gist:
Staff auto needs fixing, damage needs to go up because it’s very lack luster. That or faster attacks or something. Staff stealth needs a damage booster, full glass build hit for 1443 damage. That’s something else. Staff 2 needs to go TOWARDS targeted enemies just like heartseeker, I don’t wanna go cliff diving. Staff 3 works and is fine. Staff 4 is hit or miss, usually miss or multihit- meaning you either do nothing, or the damage procs 2 or 3 times at once. Staff 5 needs something to it. Damage is fine, but the hitbox is wrong (people in my hitbox don’t take damage. but they are in my hitbox.). Give it an evade or make it 3/4 instead of 4/4 cast time? All of the utilities are fine, maybe speed the heal or give it stability so you don’t get interrupted out of it? Not worth taking the heal. Traits are fine, but right now ALL of the dodges count as skills and proc damage via Confusion which makes taking this line sound like a deathwish. Also the really long dash dodge procs super high damage on torment. So mesmers kill us. Still. I forgot some stuff. [Edit] Distracting daggers does neglible damage and if used while chaining the elite, puts elite on full cooldown. Fabulous o.o

That’s the tl’dr. Enjoy =P I’m back to trying to make it work. And using the Staff 4 bug for maximum damages.

I didn’t try it before, but I am able to assassinate someone while in the Assassin legend. Is that good XD?

I just came out of PvP with side by side comparison on Rev and Reap. With both of these classes (and my playstyle/build choices…which are questionable at times I suppose?) I was able to ambush and destroy 2-3 players at a time before they knew I had killed them. From a PvP perspective, I think Reaper is just fine. Perhaps a tad strong. Definitely not nerf ready in any aspect, but with what I have experienced on Reaper it’s like playing Anubis in Smite. Once you stop running and kiting and just to the good old “Turn and Burn”, people die extremely rapidly. I scared myself at points. I’d just be swingin and boppin along then I see this random “5000” damage marker pop up at the end of Reaper Shroud 2, or my Reaper 4 would skyrocket into 11000 damage. Or even more remarkable was that moment they decided to stay in place and rez, and I got a 2v5 pentakill-esque clip. Pro tip, when the Reaper comes blast them apart. Or I will kill you. >=D All at once, with no mercy. How is Reaper in pve? I might become a Necro main (or Revenant) when HoT releases at this rate.

Side note- Whichever Developer made Reaper and Chronomancer and Revenant is a GENIUS. All 3 have themes, experience the themes, and can push what they do to the extreme =D. It’s fantastic and hilarious.

I think I may just convert from Thief to Mancer. This is so much fun, I can’t even… I haven’t had this much fun since the first time I played Thief. That says something >.> Best Elite Spec in my opinion (gonna check out Chrono next).

I thought it was terribad because of the effect. It’s 50% uptime. It didn’t sound all that great to me since I already had near perma swiftness and near perma fury anyway. Oh well, thanks. My build is just weird then but hey =D I can 1v3, so its k.

@Azmodey- can you explain to me why pack runes are meta? In my honest and humble opinion, they are one of the most garbage tier out there UNLESS you are playing a support-esque thief play style. Why are pack runes meta? Rage runes give fury and damage, eagle gives precision/ferocity/damage…. Also why are people picking Bountiful Theft over Trickster? It’s such a life saver… Halp I’m confused, and I’m not a new thief anymore.

I made my post here before the PoI. I’m still going to run haste for assassination.

To those saying backstab is from stealth, vault can be too. No way around it. I can gain the same advantage.

And those saying it’s gotta be wrong- I think so too. If these kinds of numbers go live, I can one shot the same way as my backstab. Except bigger, better, more frequently, with the same advantages, and in a very powerful and deadly aoe. I made a build and the build calculator thread focused for single target nuking, but with this and the numbers I pulled (final calculation in a 3.4 second span was just barely under 70k) I think I’d wreck full teams. It was highly reliant on vault’s damage, so will see? If live, I will get tears. Tears that my salt bank is sorely short of.

Vault (staff 5) does far MORE than Backstab (Stealth Dagger 1). Unless the build calculator is really, really far off.

Backstab:
Frontal Damage- 937
Side or Back Damage- 1875

Vault:
Just because I said so Damage- 2,762

Post HoT, how many nerfs do you think Vault will get? I predict 4. First time to Vault (unless they make it cost 7 on release) , second time Staff Master (take away the damage additive), third time to Vault again (damage nerf), and fourth to Vault for final nerf (Cast time increase). Not gonna lie, I’m already sad. I’m still excited for beta weekend, but obviously overtuned numbers are OBVIOUSLY going to get nerfed. So it’s like having a ticket to an amusement park, but knowing you won’t get to use it before the place closes down and your ticket expires.

I’m not sure if I hope the calculator is wrong or not. It’s a bit of warring opinion- enjoy being crazy OP for just one weekend and suck up the nerf incoming sign OR accept them and not have to worry about when I’ll have to be upset.

I like it just because it goes down to 48 and gets covered by my 30 on rage. Which means I can big things like stun lock. And just a be general jerk. Pistol→Dodge→Signet→Staff~auto+Steal→ BEAT EM TO DEATH BEFORE STUN WEARS OFF, AND IF IT DOES STUN THEM AGAIN!

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAW6an0MBVOhdmCWmCkmiFwiyLAigGYLEXrRcO4H+lH-TZRBwAeuAAX3fYxRAgcZAAPEAA

Oh what’s that? A WILD ASSASSINATION BUILD APPEARED! =D Lookin forward to it, Medi Guards…my revenge is coming. >=D You were warned.

Edit: Debating off-set sword/pistol over it…. having that extra shadowstep might be handy. Pistol pistol or sword pistol…. >.> Will have to playtest.

Do what I do: When a class is overpowered, spam ranked with it and get your almost literal freelo title. I got Champion Illusionist on Mesmer respec and Champion Phantom on Dhuumfire, also have Champion Shadow because Thief is just so fun. Going to get Paragon and Magus just running burn builds, probably Genius too….

Aaaah. Well equal is equal…. I’d still want to find out though. Also thanks for the correction=). I still think no.

Yes. As far as was stated and can be pulled from the stream, he basically said that downed players have a 1 second window of safety that damage cannot be applied- I can confirm as it has saved me from reveal issues when I stealth combo kill stomp someone.

Quickness increases skill speed by 50% (so 50% off skill cast time) and Takedown’s final combo move is 1.5 seconds, putting the hit at .75 seconds. I suggest using Takedown to take someone out of the fight then just stomp them normally? That’s my plan. Quickness and takedown combo on a target at 50% hp or lower is practically a guaranteed kill (unless weakness or protection or…you know, they run defensive before you combo) because knock ups put every skill (not trait cd) on cd. So the Focus 5 Earth Attunement Elementalist has will not be activatable as far as I know.

Just some thoughts. Basically yes, if you use the final strike of Takedown’s combo on a downed target while utilizing quickness it will fail and the hit will not process. If it does, it’s a bug and will be hotfixed.

Karl McLain.5604:

Lokheit.7943:

I was distracted, did they mention if Bound breaks stealth on hit when comboing? Or it will work like heartseeker? It looks great and the damage is solid, so I hope I can synergize it with my build.

It works the same as Heartseeker.

I dunno if you will get notified on response, but I had another concern. Say we get SA-Trick-DD (my planned build so far), with Steal giving stealth and an interrupt. Will the pulmonary damage bump us out of stealth like Mug used to? =/ Kinda worried I gotta scrap this before I even get it started.

Maug- it’s not about consistency and cooldowns, unless you build evasion tank. Take this build and run zerker+impact/force (or strength sigil/rune+impact) with haste utility and just….watch things literally pop. I already watch things pop on D/P but this…this is too good. On the heavy golem the takedown combo took around 50% hp, combo this with the initation stun+ the dagger toss (the one applying conditions and massive damage) and you are looking at murdering just about anything you see. Right now I basically play “Spray and Pray” by dropping my utilities (despite my post, I just enjoy this too much…and I get the privilege of telling people a joke from League) and hoping things die before Basilisk wears out. I’m looking forward to staff because now Basilisk has a competitive trait slot, Basi for team builds or distributable stuns and takedown for takedowns. On top of that, I can stunlock someone dead =D And that means I don’t have to roll warrior and run Hammer/Mace-Shield. I’m so ready.

tl;dr- Don’t play staff as tank, play staff as assassin. You will murderize everyone. Absolutely everyone. That or stunlock with Killtank.

And I realized- we have a lot more tricks than we give ourselves credit for. I’d say listing them might help… if you guys can add any good tips, please do.

1)Steal (F1) can be used at ANY point. Advised to use during a cast to basically get a guaranteed hit if target is not evading and/or blocking. Same on Infiltrator’s Signet active.

2)Withdraw and Roll For Initiative can cancel many skills in use (excluding ones that literally root you into an animation like Ranger Sword auto or Thief Pistol Whip)

3)Each trait line has a purpose, however big or small. DA is damage control (root targets, weaken targets, poison targets). CS is for initiation damage and has very little usage other than applying early pressure to targets. SA is for maximizing stealth usage, focused solely on survival. Acro is for players who pay tons of attention in a fight and do not waste dodges or evades for the sake of it, this line also has stun breaks and some condi clearance. Trickery is your mandatory line because it increases your initative pool and maximizes your steals potential (outside of this line is lifesteal in DA and stealth in SA and cdr in Acro).

4)Thief has a naturally high damage output, and one of the lowest survival ratios in comparison. Do not make builds that blow all utilities and/or initiative to engage fights or you will find yourself dead more often than not. The highs will usually not beat the lows. Cheese builds are fun (for example 25 might signet rush) but highly incompatible in a fight against any player with a good amount of awareness or natural tankiness.

5) Thief’s greatest asset is its ability to reset and time fights. You have stealth or evasion or BOTH. You also have teleports plenty and many utilities to displace yourself a good distance. If something is popped that inhibits your capability to kill a target, simply use one of these concepts to gain a safe viewpoint for observation of a good time to engage. An example is when you run something like Sword/Dagger against a Warrior with Endure Pain- you see this guy pop it, swap out your shortbow and get OUT; the second that sucker’s EP drops, go in hard and fast…of course, not too hard or too fast because you might die for being careless.

6) Initiative is not a license to just spam a button. Initiative is the equivalent of your GLOBAL cooldown. You pay for a lack of cooldowns by having many available options in a fight- need to blind someone or daze them quickly, offhand pistol will do the trick. But repeatedly mashing those keys will be both ineffective and futile as your prey will become a predator. Many skills have costs that are quite high, and if you run through every skill on your skillbar for a weapon you are liable to run out after a single rotation- possibly sooner. Save your initiative for when it is needed, and save your cooldown utilities for when there is no other option or no better time.

You guys have anything? Planning to direct my buddy to this thread. Also, any tips to what I said so far would be really nice. Places to shorten or to clarify, perhaps rephrase or delete. =) I really want to help the new guys out. Editing accordingly.

S/d:
Sword cleave (speed compared to staff unknown) auto, blind/daze
Shadowstep that roots, shadowstep that clears condition
Dodge that deals damage, damage that steals boon and is unblockable
Aoe ranged cleave
Stealth on demand

S/p:
Same as 1
Same as 2
Dodge that stuns and deals huge cleave damage
On demand daze/interrupt
On demand blind field (which means leap finisher=free stealth)

If anything this new traitline will DESTROY offhand dagger. But not mainhand sword. Staff just looks like an aoe cleave pressure.

Oh boy >.< K.

Does it reserve the name? Like, if I make an awesome super good name for a character that I wanna keep for my real character- will there be a grace period on names used or…? Do I just pray that no one likes it as much as me and takes it?

concerned

Maugetarr.6823:

Agressive Build:
S/X + SB
DA/DD/Tr
DA: Mug, PS, Exe
Tr: TotC, BT, SoH
DD: Brawler’s Tenacity, Impacting Disruption, Bounding Dodger

Withdraw, Bandit’s Defense, Distracting Daggers, (TBD), Impact Strike

Sustain Build:
S/X + SB
CS/DD/Tr
CS: SoP, PT, NQ
Tr: TotC, BT, SoH
DD: Weakening Strikes, Escapist’s Absolution, Bounding Dodger

Withdraw, Bandit’s Defense, Shadowstep, Signet of Agility, Impact Strike

I’ll probably give staff a whirl, but without the ability to stealth, I think it’ll be less effective than the potential of S/P.

One of the traits is to change the type of dodge you have- one of the options is leap finisher. Grab smoke screen, or use my suggested build =) Either way, stealth access should not be a problem.

I made a post on someone else’s thread, I’d dredge it up but I’m lazy. It had explanation/thinking. Anywho I came up with:

Staff-P/P (oh boy, no shortbow)
Valkyrie- Lyssa/Adventure runes, your pick
Trickery- mid/mid/mid
SA- bot/midORtop/mid
DD- dodge is leap finisher, +dmg on staff when endurance isn’t full, pulm
Staff- Sigil of Rage, Sigil of Intelligence IIIIIIIIII P/P- Sigil of Energy, Sigil of Leeching

Utils were for them wanting 3 phys, I was thinking:
Withdraw, Infilitrators, X, X, Basi or takedown. IMO, this would work very well for dueling and teamfighting. INB4 no one expects the tank to kill them gif.

The SA bit was because I think someone said Staff stealth attack was a 2 second knockdown…if someone can correct me if I’m wrong, that’d be utterly beautiful because I am living in a dream imagining the 0 counter-play options to perma stun instagibs. But combining the knockdown with the Haste trait on trickery for hitting someone in the back… and then possibly take-down? I’m just imagining shenanigans >.> If Staff doesn’t knockdown, then swap for acrobatics defense or DA damage.

Staff seems like it’ll be slow, possibly sword speed slow. Definitely take Quickness, preferably two. Since you want 3 phys, that means haste trait in trickery + staff has sigil of rage. Focus on interrupt would be offhand pistol, since you have leap-dodge then dagger or sword would work- however, sword is slower on autos and is initiative cost heavy. I’d go Staff-D/p. Then again, you need range- P/P.

If you are focusing on interrupts consistently, you will want Valkyrie because pulm does not crit and that means DA and CS will be nearly useless. Trickery is your class line (almost the literal meaning of mandatory traits) and then Daredevil to wield staff. That leaves Acro and SA. IIRC, staff stealth attack is a knockdown, so I’d grab SA. From SA grab stealth removes damaging conditions, steal grants stealth, stealth regens hp/init. Trick would be haste, tricks are faster, and daze on steal. My main concern is that the damage on pulm will be applied AFTER steal grants stealth like mug used to, so you might retrait to regen on stealth. I haven’t looked into Daredevil traits much, but grabbing damage+ after dodging or damage+ when endurance isn’t full would be good. Not sure what all you can grab. But that’s my end of theory crafting.

Staff- P/P (you need range, you are still squishy no matter what stats you take)
SA- Bot, Top/Mid, Mid
Trickery- Mid/Mid/Mid
DD- dmg on dodge or dmg on low endurance, dodge is a leap finisher, pulm?
Valkyrie- Lyssa runes or Adventure runes
Withdrawal, your choice of phys skills, basi or takedown
Staff: Sigil of Rage, Sigil of Intelligence P/P: Sigil of Energy, Sigil of Leeching

That’s my guess right now >.< Hope it works on live…er beta, Sep 4. Will see. Sure there is a ton wrong with it, but I haven’t seen staff in action so… this is my best guess right now. The most wonky build ever XD

Dahkeus.8243:

Shiki.7148:

Serious Thought.5394:

I wish the damage on dodge wasn’t staff exclusive >.< It’s so nice, but this line is going into my D/p build it looks like >.>

I don’t see staff being required for the dodge traits… Where did you get this from? Only one that specifically mentions staff is deal more damage while you do not have full endurance and wield a staff. Did you mean this one?

Yea, it’s definitely not required to use a staff. Staff Master is definitely a good talent for evades, but you could also just skip Staff Master and get the condi clear on dodge, which is also a good option. I’m sure we’ll probably even see some staff users with Escapist’s Absolution if there’s too much condi in the meta. I mean, this would even make it incredibly easy to counter single condi-focused builds like burn guards.

As for the elite spec overall, I’m definitely excited to try it out. My only worry is what the final damage numbers will look like since this will make or break the build in several areas. I mean, if the dps is high enough, it could become the new PvE meta, but if it doesn’t do more dps than dagger, it won’t become meta regardless of the utilities.

I think right now, I’m really excited to get the Vault skill on staff since it sounds a lot like Jump Shot, but I wish it wasn’t half the range.

I just wish they’d swap “after dodging gain 10% damage” and “while wielding a staff, gain 10% damage when endurance isn’t full”. Put staff damage on dodge, and general damage on endurance lack. =/ But that’s just me. I’m trying to find a way to incorporate this into my d/p build for nuking things instantly.

I wish the damage on dodge wasn’t staff exclusive >.< It’s so nice, but this line is going into my D/p build it looks like >.>

What does any of that have to do with its interaction to a boon? This skill has as much damage as tier 2 heartseeker (below 50%) and should scale accordingly. However, might has no interaction (or very little, in which case…. this isn’t even a balance issue, this is straight stealth nerfs) with this skill.

Is it just me, or does this not scale with might at all? My autos go up (25 might, I use it in my build) 1.5k, my heartseeker goes up 5k, my backstab goes up 8k….my shadow shot goes up .4k… and I think that was just because it had vulnerability. Is this a bug?

Nerf evades all you want, I have damaging nuclear skills that work with my set up.
D/P-Shortbow with Daredevil/critStrikes/trickery. 100-0? Ok.