Guild Wars 2

I’d agree to a lot of useless sigils and runes. Rune of Fire, Sigil of Accuracy- those are good examples of pointless.

Dagger Storm is the longest (or second, ele fire-staff 5 is close to same) cast in the game with the largest telegraph. Its unpredictable, unreliable, easily interrupted these days, and produces pathetic damage (condi or otherwise). When I tried to use it, people just walked out of it OR killed me while I tried to use it. My personal proposal is to make it like a 10-15 second cast time ability that does one rotation. So one stack stability, one spin reflect/damage/condi. Damage could be adjusted, but that’d help.

I’d like Hidden Killer to CHANGE the stealth abilities, finally adding a flavor to CS that isn’t pointless. DA has improv, SA has venoms, Acro has init regen/evade wall, Trick has unstoppable stun, and DD is DD. Like Backstab gets more damage, tactical now strips all stab and dazes, hookstrike gets an effect, sneak attack applies burn, and shortbow stealth 1 does something like a mini-range-nuke.

I agree on Basi. I just need it to not get overriden. The two charges make sure that even if I land PW, I still get my stun on the second charge. On one charge, its just highly unreliable.

Thoughts:
Do not change pistol-whips initiative cost, you will kill the set. The buffs would be good, but its hard to play s/p when all your abilities are cost inefficient- if you kill the star player, the set will go into obscurity.
Dagger Storm needs to reduce damage to Thief. The reason it isn’t played often is the ability is an enormous telegraph saying “hey, I’m charging my laser. come kill me. im vulnerable”.
Do not touch Basilisk venom. Do. Not. Touch. My. Venom.

In my opinion Hidden Killer should just be rolled into Backstab. No one takes the trait anyway, and its only good for a single ability. Its just a slot waster at the moment. Daredevil runes, wep swap, etc. Why take this when I can get one of those?

thunderfall.8095:

I am! I have HoT, but don’t use daredevil. (Most Thief players are going to ignore the rest of the post, due to my “ignorance” of the daredevil ways) I don’t really want to farm HPs. I have a D/P and shortbow venom share, with some success. I slotted shadow step (for mobility), Ice Drake Venom, Trip Wire(for CC), and Basilisk Venom. It works in PvE, but it is perfect for shatterer fight. That much CC obliterates the healing crystals.

Same here, I have one thief using DD just because and my main thief is da/sa/tr s/p venom/signets. Fun stuff. I dislike d/p because of being forced to play it though. My DD uses d/d sa/tr/dd though.

#Bringfriendsalways

Ooooh. That might be the problem then, I tried paral and it didn’t seem to do anything. >.> So is it just text files?

Good lord, you are arrogant. Burn on Reaper Shroud 1, burn on converting Aegis, on Plague Signet/Deathly Swarm/Staff 4 if you have any. The Reaper build I play takes maybe one or two seconds to ramp up, then pound out a healthy hard to cleanse (near impossible) 8-10k condition damage per second. My condi engi can’t match that in its dream. Stop defending something this strong. When I land a power skill, you never get a 50% damage reduction. When I land a power skill, I never make your abilities queue 50% slower. When I land a condi skill, I kill your endurance, damage, move speed, and defense. Permanently. No ramp time. Condis USED to ramp, now its just “yo here, suck kitten”.

So there is a determined bug that needs to be fixed Awesome. COMON DEVS OR ANET PEOPLE REPLY.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Serious Thought.5394:

nearlight.3064:

Serious Thought.5394:

Tried one for a few matches- I hate calling this, but Reaper is nasty. I press my Staff 3 skill and they get 5 conditions. 5. Logic?

With a wanderers amulet and Grenth runes (or maybe thorn runes, can’t remember) staff 3 could do 7k damage if not cleansed. Pretty high, but there are power bursts that are more deadly than that.

You’re missing why this is wrong. These are conditions. Cripple slows your movement, slow reduces your ability speeds, chill kills ability recharge and slows movement, poison reduces healing, immobilize disables movement, fear is control, bleed and burn are just damage, confusion discourage ability use, torment discourages movement, weakness reduces damage by 50% and endurance regeneration by 50%, taunt is another control (not available to necro, thank god), blind disables your next attack, and vulnerability increases all incoming damage. This is why its wrong. You should not be able to do this to someone and out damage a power spec. I can’t do this to you with power. I can’t terrify your skill usage or discourage you from moving, I can’t reduce your damage, I can’t goof your recharge times or ability queues. I can’t do anything like this without control abilities and my own conditions. I can do all these effects to someone permanently, still put out good overlapping damage from power and condi, and remain alive and tanky.

But I know people are going to argue. I’m fine with Necro/Reaper being strong I just wish people would stop trying to defend condition damage being this potent. If you step back for a second, you realize how utterly out of hand it is.

No, instead, power will just hit you for harder and do it instantly, instead of giving you 8 seconds to react to it after being hit.

Yes, Power lacks some of the extra effects (even then, not totally true as many direct damage skills also provide one or more of the debuffs or boon-based mirrors). But once you’ve been hit, you can’t react to direct damage.

Snorcha.7586:

I’ll just leave this here, yes it’s against noobs, yes it doesn’t reflect high level game play, yes it’s embarasment for the game developers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0JWZ8t08TY

We get it, you’re in love with a video of a guy pwning lousy players. Lousy players don’t know how to defend, so I don’t know why you think this is an actual point.

So you deny burn is a thing, and that all conditions apply supplementary crippling effects that reduce effectiveness? You deny that conditions are the more dangerous version of play? And you seem to deny that burning provides more damage than any power based attack could dream of. Interesting.

nearlight.3064:

Serious Thought.5394:

Tried one for a few matches- I hate calling this, but Reaper is nasty. I press my Staff 3 skill and they get 5 conditions. 5. Logic?

With a wanderers amulet and Grenth runes (or maybe thorn runes, can’t remember) staff 3 could do 7k damage if not cleansed. Pretty high, but there are power bursts that are more deadly than that.

You’re missing why this is wrong. These are conditions. Cripple slows your movement, slow reduces your ability speeds, chill kills ability recharge and slows movement, poison reduces healing, immobilize disables movement, fear is control, bleed and burn are just damage, confusion discourage ability use, torment discourages movement, weakness reduces damage by 50% and endurance regeneration by 50%, taunt is another control (not available to necro, thank god), blind disables your next attack, and vulnerability increases all incoming damage. This is why its wrong. You should not be able to do this to someone and out damage a power spec. I can’t do this to you with power. I can’t terrify your skill usage or discourage you from moving, I can’t reduce your damage, I can’t goof your recharge times or ability queues. I can’t do anything like this without control abilities and my own conditions. I can do all these effects to someone permanently, still put out good overlapping damage from power and condi, and remain alive and tanky.

But I know people are going to argue. I’m fine with Necro/Reaper being strong I just wish people would stop trying to defend condition damage being this potent. If you step back for a second, you realize how utterly out of hand it is.

Except thats one, non-specific button. One very low cooldown, very easy to apply, aoe, unblockable ability. Its not uncommon for me to perma 11 condition someone for the 3-4 seconds they get to fight back. Not sure what Reaper needs, but its REALLY disgusting. I can fight as/against Thief, Ele, Mes, Engi, War, Guard, and Rev (kitten druids) but when its Reaper I can only fight as. There’s not enough condi cleanse to survive that kinda barrage. Not without group help. Will say it was very enjoyable though, to know anyone I saw was essentially just a free kill. Nice and relaxing.

Tried one for a few matches- I hate calling this, but Reaper is nasty. I press my Staff 3 skill and they get 5 conditions. 5. Logic?

So it worked on that ability. Awesome. Doesn’t work on my Thief’s steal or my Mesmer’s mantra :C Rip.

This is funny. Ele and Warrior are working wonderfully. Mesmer is meh doh.

Are you playing FA s/f? If not, then idk. But FA s/f is doing very well. The damage/control/kiting is just unbelievable.

Rome.7124:

Snowywonders.1378:

Are the people complaining really this bad at the game? Or are you just dumb? Or are you trolls?
Guess what, mostly any proff can still beat a thief 1v1 on point. Thief is still primarily a +1 and capper/decapper.
Thief’s autoattack does more damage now? Well that’s because it has little group support compared to other proffs.
If people could stop making horrible threads, that would be great.

there’s so much bs in the reply, how can you type it without breaking into laughter?

Which parts are bs?

As satisfied as I am (and I am. I’ve yet to pinpoint any class that is unable to power, condi, or tank. i’m waiting for others to catch on- spvp post btw), I’m wondering if posting here will get me answer over posting in two different thread zones- this is the third.

Will you bug fix Thief? Impairing Daggers is STILL not a Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile despite it saying so in the tooltip, quickness seems to shorten pistol whips stun duration (whereas slow has no effect. oddities), and Scorpion Wire is far less reliable than Magnet Pull or Spear of the Dragonhunter Guy.

Will you do a check through Runes and Sigils? Paralyzation Sigil and Mesmer runes do not in fact work. My stuns and dazes do not changes at all. Impact is selective on what kind of stun it wants- it no longer works on Basilisk, which kills my burst but it has the stun icon. Why is perplexity not in the game? Why do Dolyak and Fire runes exist when Ele spams fire auras and regeneration beats Dolyak definitively?

Just things like that, I’d love an answer even if its just a “Oh we don’t care, deal with it”. I just want to know if these problems are even known. I’d also be really appreciative of Collaborative Development threads being used to check where each classes community believes it is and where it should be.

Anywho, here’s hoping right?

Warrior’s disturbingly strong. Try the new heal, and trust me. Its not op, but its definitely not “pretty bad”.

messiah.1908:

Serious Thought.5394:

Which type of s/p are you aiming for? The classic smash and grab or a duelist style? Because this is definitely not a smash and grab…

@babzahook- did they fix it? My testing pre-patch showed the shocking aura to be applied at the beginning of the third hit instead of the first. And it usually did not proc (could not locate precise bug).

the aura proc at the first attack

the build is less 1v1 rather group play as in 1v1 condi will kill you (talking pvp) so you wont be able to contest the point unless you taking your time. power build its 50% win/loss as at the beginning most player will use their defense utilities so if you survive that its easier for you.
but in group play you can come from nowhere and do you thing against ele and necro and guard especially its good

Gonna be honest, the only part I processed was Shock Aura applies to first now. Sneak fix is sneaky. #yay

Not yet announced. Another thing someone with a red tag can answer. I bump your thread, you bump mine? Mines about pvp bugs.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Serious Thought.5394:

Good Thieves hate d/p and to a lesser extent s/d, because those sets seem to decide our buffs. :C I wanna play my s/p p/p day one thief build :C

I really don’t get this statement. You are essentially saying “good” or experienced thieves will prefer Dagger/Dagger-Shortbow or Staff-pistol/pistol and they look down on dagger/pistol and to a lesser extend sword/pistol.

It makes no sense. Thieve’s don’t have the same kitten nal as warrior or guardian. Their limited amount of weapons usually means they have become proficient in each one.
Shadow shot gap closer, interrupt on demand, smoke field when needed, leap finisher and a weapon that can double strike…what’s not to like? I don’t think ‘good’ thieves ‘hate’ dagger/pistol at all…they just hate players who spam the hell of it and play sloppy. The same can be said for any player who mains a profession..they don’t care for the bandwagoners who flood a profession out and get it nerfed by rolling builds that people will complain about because of how much it is over represented.

The last match I played had 4 engineers all with sneak gyro..only one was experienced, the other 3 still learning the profession. I bet ya the experienced engi has getting annoyed at how much the other 3 spammed sneak ruining point contributions every where.

My bad, I’ll be more clear. We hate our entire class mechanic, traits, and utility system being predicated by the balance of a singular weapon, in this instance to hereby be named and known as dagger/pistol or “D/P, D/p, d/p, d/p” for short. Would you like me to elaborate, or would you like to go to the Thief forums and check out the we hate d/p thread. Its rather massive.

Thanks for the bump. I’m legitimately trying to get a word from them on this. Think I can clean it up? I was just trying to point out Mesmer/Paral were non-functioning, Impact is unsure of what is a stun and what isn’t while having bugs on damage during or after stun abilities, that Dolyak and Fire runes were massively outdated, and that many fantastic runes/sigils are not in spvp atm. :C Rip the dream of a functioning rune/sigil system.

I’d say the main problem is all the bugs. I really would. I’d enjoy sigil of paralyzation, mesmer runes, correctly function scorpion wire and impairing dagger, more valid pathways, no more sticks after a DD dodge, etc etc. I’d really enjoy any of these.

Which type of s/p are you aiming for? The classic smash and grab or a duelist style? Because this is definitely not a smash and grab…

@babzahook- did they fix it? My testing pre-patch showed the shocking aura to be applied at the beginning of the third hit instead of the first. And it usually did not proc (could not locate precise bug).

I feel like I’m playing a different game. People are trying to 100-0 me. I’m tanky as all shenanigans, and I’m killing those 100-0 players.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Spartacus.5243:

DeceiverX.8361:

I’d argue DA is better overall due to similar damage and the control and healing it offers. On steal, you get heal cut + weakness + damage + self-heal, with utility on Panic Strike and bonus damage on executioner for the +1 role better.

CS is definitely a worse trait line. That said, when talking strictly burst damage output potential, CS > DA, but again, only marginally so.

Just lol @ taking executioner when running DA. improvisation is what makes DA good. so without executioner CS is more than just marginally better in burst

I have to agree. When I take DA, I go for Improv rather than Exec.

My highest ability cooldown is 32 seconds. I don’t take Improv XD.

Good Thieves hate d/p and to a lesser extent s/d, because those sets seem to decide our buffs. :C I wanna play my s/p p/p day one thief build :C

Warriors are currently a top class. People just need to start playing instead of whining. Mercenary Condi Warrior atm, I kill Reapers/Necros. And no, I’m not lieing.

Is there a chance that the runes/sigils will be looked at? A lot of them have issues, a lot of them have better versions, so on so forth. As an idea Mesmer runes do not seem to increase daze duration (test- Mesmers, Thief steal, at one point Warrior), Sigil of Paralyzation does not increase stun duration (test- Mesmers, Thief (that new fisticuffs skill), and again Warrior), and no one with regeneration wants to pick Dolyak runes. It’d be amazingly helpful if the non-functioning sigil/rune was functioning (paralyz/mesmer), if the less used sigils and runes were removed or reworked(no one picks Accuracy because Fury is abundant, and many classes have crit chance for free; force is outweighed by air/fire, etc; Rune of Fire’s fire aura icd is too big), and if you invited other runes/sigils into pvp like Perplexity. Any response to this would be really really nice.

I’ve been enjoying the Thief meta. Putting the fotm ones in there place on any class I choose is just funny. So uh “Thief Wars 2” has ended up in “Pile of dead Thieves Wars 2” for me.

rchu.8945:

Serious Thought.5394:

I ran out of characters, so my Necro opinion goes here. Holy spam, I’m sorry. Necro’s problem isn’t simple to pinpoint- Necro’s theme is corruption. Naturally these buffs make sense. The problem is conditions are far too strong. Also, Necro has very few hard hitting big tell abilities. Especially condi. A necro fighting anyone else of the same caliber will never naturally lose a 1v1, but this is the trade for mobility. Which it has. Its hard to find something to nerf on Necro without destroying its theme. Unfortunately. I think it and ele need a true rework from the ground up. And I think Thief (now that they are done trying to call it a speedy utility tool) shows how easy that is. Just accept and aspect of your design, do that. Ele is meant to be the class that builds and builds and builds, Necro is the one that tears and tears and tears. Ele needs to be the boon god, Necro the condi god. Hope I helped someone learn. Yay two walls of text. My fingers hurt.

Your defense for necro is quite biased consider your comments on your replies to Mesmer nerf threads. I can argue Chrono’s theme is about alacarity, but it’s ok for Anet to totally destroy that elite spec?

So you did not check my post history. Good. Are you trolling? Or are you trying some kind of dissuasion? Or are you really just not good at reading? I said Mesmer needs light buffs. I say light because Mesmer is Second Place (down from First) in core specs, while Chrono is Fourth Place(down from First) in elite specs. Chrono’s theme is not “about alacrity” it was stated on the livestream “we wanted Chrono’s theme to be about time, buffing and debuffing, speeding up and slowing down”. So yes, Alacrity sucked for a nerf. If they nerf chill to the same level then its fine in pvp. In pve you are a must have anyway. Continuum Shift into Mimic+Well of Action+Well of Action into Time Warp, CS goes down do it again. You just gave tons of quickness and tons of alacrity. In pvp, you have to play far better than the bunker era. As for hilarity, I’ve found a stupid high burst build that just shatters for days. Its just keeping my illusions up that hurts, but since IP is baseline it matters very little.

Going to post another bug every time this starts to leave the front page until a dev finally goes “ok we’ll look into it”. Mesmer runes do not extend your Steal daze. Pulmonary Impact (the trait) does not apply to downed targets despite other interrupt traits doing so.

This game is trying to kill melee. Intentionally or not is irrelevant, all the elite specs beg you to 1v1 them in melee. Lots of new bosses beg you to come closer. So on so forth.

Crinn.7864:

Lord Kuru.3685:

No pay for HoT ==> no win.

That’s precisely P2W.

No it’s not.
Pay2win is a specific term for a monetization scheme used by some free2play games based around micro transactions giving power boosts.

Heart of Thorns is buy2play, which is a totally different monetization scheme where players are expected to buy the game. You have to buy HoT to compete in HoT.

http://game-wisdom.com/critical/defining-pay-to-win
Since you want to quote stuff. Before I get into this, I own HoT. So I don’t care. BUT.

The Elite specs are considered downloadable content (dlc) that is locked behind a pay wall. You cannot access these specs without paying for them. However, you can play the entire game without them (minus HoT zones). This is by and large, considered something you would BUY. Buy and Pay are synonymous terms. So we have that HoT specs are buyable/payable to acquire.

Are they stronger then base specs, excluding player skill? Are they stronger than other classes base specs?
Dragonhunter to Guardian is much much stronger. Support is a good 2.5 seconds of just pure daze, damage is astronomical, control is just stupid. This class pulls a Darius and denies melee specs without immense tankiness engage opportunities becase you spend the whole time DAZED. And stunned. Reaper to Necro is flavor, but for condi Reaper adds a lot of damage from chill. For power, the shouts are potent and contain lots of effects. To others, it becomes an unstoppable 1v1 force. You can Rampage a Reaper, and it won’t care. Not even a little. It’ll fight you in Reaper Shroud, and PROBABLY win. An elite ability dies to a class mechanic. Scrapper fulfills bruiser fantasies, makes Engineer look very bad. Scrapper reflects, blocks, evades, and controls constantly. Needless to say, rangers cry. Druid on the other hand will never die because it can continue to heal forever. The best Druid spec is Beastmaster healtank- heal pet, let it kill. Ranger can’t compete with this even a little, even if using the same weapons. Also almost no cast time aoe control abilities, so again its a melee denier. I could go on, but for the most part in an objective view these elite specs are far stronger and provide clear hard counters.

So yes. It sucks. But it is pay to win. These elite specs are BETTER than their base. Why pick Acro when you can get DD? Why pick Spite for condi now, when you can get Reaper? Why bother even glancing at Arcane when you can get Tempest (though this one no longer applies quite as hard, its still valid)?

tl;dr- Read it, or admit you’re just being a stubborn fanboy. This game is officially pay to win. They can’t nerf the shiny toys until sales finally peak, but they could make a hefty start by removing the requirement that equipping the elite spec is the only way to get new utilities and weapons. Just my opinion. I never take Elite specs because they are fun anymore, but because I need something from them. Usually not traits either, but thats because I’m stubborn.

Juba.8406:

Serious Thought.5394:

The berserker heal resets your berserk ability, if you wanted to try cheese. To test and prove, grab rifle. Auto something, precision signet, berserk, gunflame, heal, gunflame (or use something to gain adrenaline, but I am always capped. struggles). I pulled off two quickness 12k gunflames and scared people mid. My build is mega glassy, but it is funny to do that kinda stuff and make em cry.

And once targeted 1..2..3…….. dead

I did tell you :P. I’m gonna look into making it duelist oriented (minus the mercenary one that uses this bug) but I thought it worth mentioning.

The berserker heal resets your berserk ability, if you wanted to try cheese. To test and prove, grab rifle. Auto something, precision signet, berserk, gunflame, heal, gunflame (or use something to gain adrenaline, but I am always capped. struggles). I pulled off two quickness 12k gunflames and scared people mid. My build is mega glassy, but it is funny to do that kinda stuff and make em cry.

Zintrothen.1056:

Serious Thought.5394:

Have you tried stunburst Berserker? Its way tougher than you give credit for.

I’ve been toying with mace/shield and hammer, taking Discipline, Defence (Rousing Resilience and Berserker (Dead or Alive), in HotM and it’s stun potential is amazing. Your target will die if they don’t have stability or a bunch of stun breaks. Using Paladin’s Amulet and taking many stun breaks, especially Outrage, which times almost perfectly with RR trait. Now I haven’t tried this in an actual competitive environment, so I have no idea how well it’ll do against real players.

I just finished a my Mercenary build and I have to say, its just…disgusting. Not much else to say. Though I’m stuck between axe/sword and longbow. Longbow is cool and all, but its berserker ability is really lackluster. Axe’s helps get fire aura, which I then pop, then get another, and pop, and repeat. Best wtf-3-second burst (after initial landing) was 12 confusion, 13 burn, weakness, 12 bleeding, 10 vulnerability, and cripple along with 1 torment. Now I need to fix my gunflame build. Did you know that your Berserker heal resets your Berserk ability cooldown? I’ve been toying with Rifle auto, prec signet, berserk, gunflame, the heal, and stunbreak (or just something to hit the adren lvl) and gunflame. Its pretty fast and feels like Sniper.

Thats what I’m realizing, but I wish they just worked on initiative and abilities instead of autos. Minus Sword, my god that needed the love it was given. Its finally competitive and fills the theme.

I ran out of characters, so my Necro opinion goes here. Holy spam, I’m sorry. Necro’s problem isn’t simple to pinpoint- Necro’s theme is corruption. Naturally these buffs make sense. The problem is conditions are far too strong. Also, Necro has very few hard hitting big tell abilities. Especially condi. A necro fighting anyone else of the same caliber will never naturally lose a 1v1, but this is the trade for mobility. Which it has. Its hard to find something to nerf on Necro without destroying its theme. Unfortunately. I think it and ele need a true rework from the ground up. And I think Thief (now that they are done trying to call it a speedy utility tool) shows how easy that is. Just accept and aspect of your design, do that. Ele is meant to be the class that builds and builds and builds, Necro is the one that tears and tears and tears. Ele needs to be the boon god, Necro the condi god. Hope I helped someone learn. Yay two walls of text. My fingers hurt.

I honestly believe that the Thief community knows what the problem is with new Thief, but I’ll type it here to let you guys know as well. I agree the buffs were poorly conceived, but at the very minimum we are allowed to do group content without being booted because all a thief brings is damage and mobility. We have no true group healing (venomshare is abysmal tbh), we do not boon share, our condition overly is short lived, and so on. If you take a HARD look not some short “30 second ok its broken” look, you’ll realize what I’m saying is spot on and if you truly want to nerf Thief’s damage you really need to compensate them because dang is it bad. Now then a quick in depth for anyone (and if this doesn’t work I will type up a long friggin essay and ask for it to be stickied):

Dagger Mainhand- upfront burst, this weapon set is JUST damage.
Dagger Offhand- light debuff with fairly high damage which is extremely initiative inefficient
Pistol Mainhand- medium range, garbage damage, garbage condi
Pistol Offhand- a daze and blind make it your light disable over light debuff
Sword Mainhand- sustained damage with a small amount of survivability and control
Staff- Aoe damage that is highly telegraphed, the “BullRush into 100blades” of this era
Shortbow- highly telegraphed damage which is also very mediocre considering the former reason, used solely for mobility. This weaponset is why Thief has remained weapon, because of Shortbow 5 and nothing else. If this game was not conquest, Thief would never remain meta.

Deathblossom (d/d)- small zone control. Think turrets, but tighter
Shadow Shot(d/p)- the single most overloaded ability for Thief. We think d/p needs to be heavily nerfed so that we can finally buff other things. dagger buffs were bad because this weaponset is now over the top
Shadow Strike(p/d)- a quick gap opener, this weapon has very light sustained damage both condi and power
Unload (p/p)- the only ability on this weaponset that anyone notices because the set is just bad in this combination
Larcenous/Flanking Strike (s/d)- the duelist set, this ability takes boons IF you didn’t block/blind/dodge/invuln…etc… Larcenous. needs buffs to make it a real boon steal weapon considering the current spamability
Pistol Whip (s/p)- the single highest damaging ability with a stun that roots the thief. dieing to this if you see it coming simply means you weren’t paying attention or have no stun reflect/breaks

Signets- A boost to damage which is better left not activated in many many cases, a speed boost that is the WORST active signet for its type (ele stunbreaks and blinds for instance), a tp which is fine and should just be its own skill, and a 100 endurance (not 150, yay bugs) refill

Traps- a light condi root, a shadow based tp which always puts the Thief in melee range so if you trigger a trap just drop a quick cc a second later (cast time) to make sure they didn’t use it, a knockdown which triggers the unlimited range Eye for an Eye trait, and a summon minion. Minion that dies in a 1v1 to any necro minion. And has no realistic value. At all. Oh and these are all LINES. Not circles. Which means they are the hardest to trigger traps.

Tricks- so we have two good abilities (the heal that all thief builds will run if they are competitive and roi which is init restore), and then one bugged ability that for some reason is even less reliable than Magnet Pull, and lastly a quickness ability that gives fury instead of swiftness or superspeed on a melee class because reasons.

Deception- minus the heal ability, the only solid set of utilities. aoe stealth, aoe stealth, a displacing stunbreak/condi cleanse, and…a thingie. I honestly don’t even know what the fourth one is.

Venoms- so ye. The value of these venoms is very low because Venomshare. When mesmers complain about alacrity (which I totally understand) I cannot resist laughing because this. One whole set of utilities minus the elite Basi one is garbage. Because of a trait. Don’t believe me, don’t pick venomshare and try to make any real build. Any.

Physical- the HoT spec. So a full endurance filler if running trait, if not its just 100 or so, a block that turns into knockdown, a 2 second high burst stun ability that almost never lands, a dagger stun, and a dagger condi toss which is still beyond bugged (not a combo finisher STILL. 7 months. I still don’t get +3 poison from my shortbow 4) and misses on anything that moves and/or exceeds a range of oh…600. But its k, Impact Strike. reminds me of venoms.

tl;dr- The problem with Thief isn’t a lack of damage, its the bugs. Sword auto was never worth completing, scorpion wire is garbage, impairing daggers is still bugged. Mesmer runes and Sigil of Paralyzation do nothing for us despite us obviously being built to stun. Most of our utilities are trash tier, our weapons consume initiative like a thirsty hippo, and without taking Trickery for Preparedness we cannot play. We have one good heal, very situational utilities, and two good elites. We got buffs to dagger, despite d/p being the most overperforming set. Instead of fixing pistol, its still trash. We do not have burn. We do not have protection. We barely have stability. We have no resistance. The list goes on. We only bring mobility and burst, but instead of giving us more burst (because they say BAD NO SURVIVABILITY to us) they gave us more sustained. Two/Three weapons did not need them. Now you know.

If it makes you feel better, I have just located a Berserker build that outputs WAY too much condi damage.

Dondagora.9645:

Serious Thought.5394:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Serious Thought.5394:

Has anyone tried cancer perma block mesmer yet? If not, I recommend it. Makes PU look like a teddy bear.

I have, I feel like a decap druid does it better.
The biggest thing is that it pressures and decaps far point. But druids already do that.

I do think Mesmer needs light buffs, so don’t get me wrong. I just get confused when the community acts like its never played without alacrity before.

Whats your defense build btw?
Mine is Mercenary (trying to find runes/sigils but so far Guardian and Chronomancer ones are funny) with Dueling, Chaos, and Chronomancer (debating swapping to Illusions). Using triple well and the stun mantra. I got a penta kill yesterday from all the aoe condis that hit from 6 well bombing. Small moments like that make me really happy.

It was different when alacrity wasn’t around. There weren’t Elite specs. And here’s Chrono, built around having Alacrity, now with its effectiveness halved.

Not unplayable, but definitely throws us down quite a few notches.

That’s fair I guess. I personally think all of the elite specs (tbh the whole game) needs to get nerfed significantly. I just ran into a build that my Burnzerker is able to nuke 14 burn stacks in less than 1 second. And the target is stunned for the 1 or 2 ticks it takes for those to kill them. :C This is turning into Yu-Gi-Oh.

The sad thing is this just enforces the meta weapon sets. It doesn’t fix the problems, we’re still bugged, and we still are beyond squishy.
D/P
S/D
Staff
Shortbow

Use those or gtfo.
Do not use
D/D
S/P
p/D
p/p

Stay out of rank if you want this. The toxicity of people clawing each other apart for pips is unbelievable. That or just change your chat log to your combat log.

6. Bugs are left on classes for years upon years. You forgot that one. My god the bug list on Thief alone is just… shiver

One day, maybe it will be a combo finisher. :C One day. HA ye right. Scoprion Wire still bugged, now this is at month 7 for bugginess and scorp at 3.5 years. Woohoo. Buff me, but lemme stay bugged. :C

Edit: LOL they deleted my daily reminder thread. Or looks like it. I didn’t get updated. Should I use this one? Its quite a list, just on bugs.

Have you tried stunburst Berserker? Its way tougher than you give credit for.

This list is so wrong. This patch has an almost perfect rock-paper-scissors set up, which for a game with very few characters it is required. My list looks way different.

Strong: Necro
Slightly Strong: Thief
Bundled in the counter pick game: Everyone but
Needs the lightest of buffs: Mesmer

Dahkeus.8243:

Hmm…as far as new ‘meta’ builds, it’s so hard to say since so many builds become meta not only because of how strong they are themselves, but also because of how strong they are against other popular builds. So far, the only clear winners seem to be necros and thieves. Assuming this, here are my guesses for builds that could become viable or even meta:

• Shout Bow comeback. The Mender’s amulet seems to be well suited for this build and this build is getting some positive feedback on the war sub forums. If condi necro really becomes popular, this could help shout bow do well, despite the nerfs it’s seen in the past.

• Condi bomb kit engi. This has always been a strong counter to thieves and now that thieves are back in the game, they may start to do more than just +1 and decap.

• Marauder Engi. Chaithh played this with some pretty good success before the soldier’s variant took over. I’m pretty sure he even used this to hit legendary during last season. This is a solid heavy dps build that seems to only have been improved from the class changes and should fit in well with a burst meta due to the high damage and invulns/blocks.

• Shout Longbow Rangers – I’m going out on a limb with this and this may honestly only be something that works in solo queues, but with auras being nerfed and bunker mesmers being pushed out, there should be less projectile hate. The shout buffs also seem like they could be good enough to actually take now. If the thief gets strong enough, this is another strong combo, especially if “Sic ’Em!” is taken.

• Pistol Whip Comeback – This is another stretch guess. I still think D/P and Staff will rule the day, but a necro-heavy meta could make the high CC of a pistol whip build shine, particularly since the sword AA is in a better spot.

Anyways, those are my wild speculations so far.

Great. I am a s/p player. For a while. Should I brace for the “3 spamming nerd, go learn to play you slime ball” impact?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Doggie.3184:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Please no, for Dwayna’s sake no.

I don’t want my 2nd DB interrupting my 1st DB instead of performing 2 DBs in a row.

Teef helicopter flight inc?

It’s a blender, not a kitteng helicopter.

All I heard was helicopter.