Guild Wars 2

And my build just went from DA/CS/TR to DD/CS/TR. Instead of signet for might, I get damage. =) Worth. Still not using staff without poi convincing me.

The irony is, I would’ve enjoyed Ninja with Kits. It’s thematic, it makes sense, and its a logical step. The bigger irony is, from the data-mined traits thus far, I’m still dagger/pistol DA/CS/Trick. =/ What a pity, I have 0 reason to use the elite. Here’s to hoping the NEXT elite spec is Ninja

Ninja- utilizes a greatsword (because katanas are two handers) and kits.
Mekittenit (Needle)
Burst Kit (Shuriken)
Condition Kit (Kunai)
Zone control Kit (Kido)
Massive Damage aoe (Hako) =-) Just doing my inb4, cuz they will make Ninja’s. And it will work. Just not this time =(

Not related to the 19k backstab, but related to thief buff discussion:

Thief was made (blah blah, reasons, selling points and the original poster aside) to be a mistake punisher. It’s why when people ran zerk they used to fear us (now most laugh at thief and go yay free kill)- they knew going full ham was stupid and they’d die for it. Now if we extend to punish a mistake, even if its minutely, we get murderized so hard its not even funny. Thief can no longer do what its supposed to. =/ Until it can, it’s easier to punish mistakes on Guardian and Engineer (or just to never ever make one via Elementalist and Mesmer… I mean really…cele and PU is just stupid at times) than it is to on Thief. Finding it on Thief is easy, capitalizing is next to impossible.

You asking me? Cuz idk. I used to be so happy logging on my thief now its like- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyTj4Sbtulo

I lost it. Ran to my Guardian sobbing. Speed leveling guardian to avoid the pain and loneliness of being abandoned on my Thief. =(

Gray, you can just selflessly promote. Like so https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Figured-it-out.

Also, Zero- you missed one key aspect. Thief is able to avoid detection and inflict decent damage, make sure to buff it. When Thief gains Revealed inflict Taunt on nearby enemies and weakness/sow on Thief. Now Thief can become tank.

HOLDS DOLL HIGHER PLEASE DEV GODS! WE ONLY ASK FOR BUFFS!

Which weapon do you think needs the most improvement? *

WHERE IS DAGGER DAGGER 3?!?!!?!?

The reason we are nerfed is shortbow 5. Highest mobility in game for this, lowest power damage (when you trait assassin on other classes, they all come ahead) for this. Lets trade shortbow 5 for some buffs.

Holds out voodoo doll I CALL UPON THEE, DEV GOD!

I take this as a sign that Thief needs design help. When Sleight of hand is a bad trait because DAZE KILLS YOU BACK, something needs to be said. And if that one trait requires you to take an entire other line to compliment it…. Ye.

Dev: Thieves are asking for buffs, what do we sir?
AnetBoss of Thief: Nope. Just, no.
Dev: But sir, they might be underpowered.
AnetBoss of Thief: Nope. Just, no.
Dev: SIR!
AnetBoss of Thief: Pack your bags, get out.

That’s the conversation I imagine taking place.

No, but the playerbase is terrified of Thieves. Not good ones or bad ones, just the concept of something killing them for not running proper utilities or defense. Ironically, I am swapping characters (as a Thief main, like other Thief mains) because i can do so much more instant damage on my meditation guardian. Thief is still viable, but heavily outclassed. Another poster stated it- you are in the meta because you can stealth rez and tp around on shortbow. Burst damage is higher on Medi Guards, condition damage is anything that has burns (oh lol, wow…only Thief doesn’t have access to easy burns without a specific rune type or sigil type…. k), you can’t outsustain an ele….. It’s 100% mobility. Thief was introduced as a disabler that took high priority targets out of fights- you can’t do that anymore without going full yolo. And if you go full yolo, and I go full yolo on my new Medi Guard, I’m going to come out on top. Especially if we just do a dps race.

Thief is viable, but outclassed. It is currently the lowest ranking PvP profession. When Necromancers find the time to complain about their lifeblasts doing less damage than our backstabs (which isn’t always true anymore, I got hit for 9k consistently…and my backstabs hit for 8k unless I yolo) there is a problem. Just put your Thief down, wait it out, wait for something to pop up. OR. Play d/p sheep meta Thief, because anything else has to put in 100% more effort to come close to what that pulls for lazy clicks.

tl;dr- Thief isn’t garbage, but it gets outperformed on. You are a mobile blind/rez station, deal with it. It’s why I only play my Thief when I silverwaste farm now (and when I feel like playing full yolo stupid mode…but now full yolo stupid mode feels better on mediguard).

Staff ability set:
1) Auto attack chain, cripple→weakness→Immobilize
2) Rapid attack series inflicting vulnerability
3) Whirling defense (same as ranger skill, but shorter) that applies aegis every pulse
4) Leap to target and stun
5) Block that throws staff to impale and knockback an enemy (inflicts bleed/torment)

Phys skills: (they show 4 of each)
1) Mordrem Terragriffs do a rush that knocks back and evades, we get it
2) Knockdown that propels us backwards
3) A stun whack with high damage
4) An evasion chain that acts like shocking aura

Traits (9 major, 3 minor):
Minor 1) When Thief evades an attack, Thief gains protection
Minor 2) When Thief blocks an attack, Thief gains Regeneration
Minor 3) When Thief gains Protection and Regeneration, Thief gains Resistance
Major 1) Phys skills have cooldown lowered by 20% and apply additional effects (similar to corruption trait with Necromancers)
Major 2) When Thief takes more than 5% hp in one hit, gain 1 initiative
Major 3) Lower weapon swap cd by 3 seconds
Major 4) Consecutive attacks on a target apply increasing vulnerability and might (1/2/3/4/5 cap at some point)
Major 5) Swapping weapons grants Stealth
Major 6) Stealth grants aegis and restores endurance
Major 7) Consecutive attacks on a target (every 3?) applies a stun
Major Any boons gained by Thief are applied to nearby allies (yay support)
Major 9) For every 5% max hp damage Thief takes off of enemy, Thief gains 1 initiative

And that’s my guess. Or how I would roll it. People want a tankier, more mobile, more evasive, more supportive thief. There ya go. =)

I was going to avoid posting, but…
Sanctuary- you can’t accuse anyone of being “toxic and using personal attacks” when you clearly state “Let me see if I can explain this to you like I would a child”. Ye. Again, who started it? The kid who threw the rock or the kid who threw the tantrum when the rock landed? Sorry if thats too advanced a saying. ALSO- what the heck are you doing complaining about a condi build when you run a power necro build? Your cleanse consists of staff 4 and a heal (assuming you run the right one) and MAYBE a well, if you so incline to lose damage for it. Meanwhile real condi necro players, like myself, are having a field day. These guys stack 12 burns on me? Oh sweet joy, let me just staff 4? Oh a blind? Ok dagger 2 while staff 4. Oh snap no staff 4 cuz another blind? OH ez pz, Ds 4 as they load me with condi. Kid you not, the meta for Necro has NEVER been so good. I’m surprised anyone thinks Necro isn’t viable. You run power, wonderful enjoy your 5.3k lifeblast (yes, that number is realistic. I hit that number often and easy) while thief struggles to not blow every single utility skill to get an 8k backstab. You run tank, and you don’t die. My friend, Sena, runs a pure bunker build that specializes in heal tanking…and sweet chocobo town if he hits a point, everyone knows to walk away- Sena’s team (thankfully I am on it) never ever dies. Necro builds condi? Great, load me up- I have 2 passive transfers, one transfer on util with low cd that also converts boon, along with 2 abilities.

Sanctuary, you said you play Necro. Then you complained about condition builds. Do you need tips on how to play Necro? I am more than willing to offer. Necro is built to thrive in condition heavy environments. Your application as a Necromancer is not meant to be high because you have CONDITION TRANSFERS and BOON FLIP. Plenty and full. If you aren’t outpacing in condition damage, you need to figure your build out.

Also, I may have reposted what others said. I kinda skipped.

It’s called the Trapper build. It’s rather powerful, but it requires you be fairly unobservant.

Below is an example.
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=Vh3RV;1RwVa0R5gOFd0;9;4IJM;0138247147;4nNk3L;1G3G3G3G35z

25 might stacks, 1/2 second action time, 15 stacks of vulnerability.

Didn’t understand a thing in your post, looked it up, wish I hadn’t. Halan, thank you for ruining my search history T-T and burning the image into my head. I need soap for my brain.
I just wanted a tail because I was tired of getting wings. And because they can clearly make them (see Charr). But I hate playing as Charr. So on so forth with the reasoning. That and Elf ears because one of my favorite characters EVER is an elf.

Ah phooey. I really want a fox tail and (due to candyhearts) some animal ears =D like bunny ears =D >..> Inb4 we have full animal costumes that remind all of us of playing Mario with that one weird flower than made you a fox with a human face XD

Lets get both? Could be nice =D

But it would be so worth it >..> besides, we have more than enough wings right? White wings, black wings, broken wings, holo wings, funny looking wings, metal wings in varying flavors and colors… and we have a flower, and some backpacks. Oh and some angel wings, and some flower wings, and some…continues listing back items, mainly wings

For anyone that is not charr? I did not see a petition of insecurity from those guys >.> THIS IS A CRY OF HELP FROM TYRIA!

inb4 zero responses (currently imagining the terror of asura’s with tails running around and looking like massive, scary rat monsters…or how funny sylvari would look XD)

I’m terrified to go post in another forum for support because of the board management seeming to BAN people for expressing themselves incorrectly. Sorry for my lack of optimism. Oh and the uh, the friends I lost so far who said they didn’t want to play GW2 while Thief was so cookie cutter and weak. I uh, I apologize for the lack of their optimism. =( Sorry. My friends list kinda matters to me.

Edit: Numpad acted up. Excuse me.

That’s the whole problem it seems to me- almost the entire thief weapon set is power. Dagger/dagger is intended for diversified power (which is why the poison percentage made no sense because it forces you to run d/d and lose out on so much else), d/p is intended for safe damage, p/p is intended for utility power, p/d is your condition set (could be better), s/d is your evasion damage, s/p is your “please make this skill hit” damage, and shortbow is just raw utility.

Then for trait lines:
DA- is intended to have deny conditions (which Yolo swaggins made a comment that I don’t understand about) such as poison, weakness, immobilize as well as massive power from mug, executioner, and that 10% when someone has a condition.
CS- is your pure power line. Not much else to say, its why my build has reached record high backstabs of 14.7k to 23.1k.
SA- is your defense stealth line. Stay in stealth, get benefits. Get outclassed by mesmer, continue to be salty. I’d love to rework this whole line.
Acro- is your “skillful evasion” line that rewards you for not getting hit. The rewards aren’t exactly stellar, but they aren’t bad. Buffs in key places would make this line desirable- I made some, but I’m sure there are others.
Trickery- is your steal line. Not much to it, it does things like grants boons, steal boons, give conditions, and daze.

In all of this its really difficult to find a traitline and weapon set that compliment each other. What really needs to happen is a base amount of condition damage on a specific weaponset (p/d) and even then its pretty weak. You shouldn’t get pigeoned into d/d for poison (which is why I did poison on all dagger skills, so dancing had application heaven) but without running it you lose a lot of damage. Meanwhile, p/d is better as a power set. =/ Not much to really say. It’s why I stuck vulnerability (extra on skale, I forgot to typo fix that) on all the venoms- to turn weak conditions into much more lethal conditions. Vulnerability applies to condition damage and its a surprising amount of damage differential. The best thing would be for Bewildering ambush to apply 5 stacks of confusion and 3 stacks of burn (its a confusing ambush, we dunno what happened) and to increase p/d skill 3’s torment by 1 on the skill and see what happens from there with my other “all dagger skills apply poison”. It’d start working out pretty well since you are supposed to 100-0 not have sustained fights, or at least I assume so.

I’m not too familiar with the condition set up of the thief weapons, I usually play on the lockdown or instagib power modes.

I was thinking of changing shortbow 4 to be a bit more dangerous, but I doubt it’d happen. Choking gas by design is supposed to be lethal, not annoying. I was going to have it rotate conditions (Chaos storm like mesmers) between constant poison+daze/torment/blind/confusion/bleed/burn. But it seemed too much. Also skale venom isn’t that bad imo, I used it on my builds for the vuln and I found after sneak attacking + pistol 2 I usually had melted someone.

Any ideas on how to improve them? I’d personally revamp the Deadly Arts to be a bit more deadly and power oriented, but again I don’t want to be hitting and swinging at big changes.
Want me to do for p/d like I did d/d?

@Kocoff- Then you have a valkyrie pistol. Its like asking what happens when you pick Clerics into Warrior’s Greatsword. You have clerics.

@Gray- What would you think I should change on it? I personally thought it was handy, seeing as the intended condi weapon set is pistol/dagger. Dagger/dagger is more versatile/disable. Poison reduces heal and causes weakness, weakness reduces direct damage, vulnerability increases damage. Death blossom feels like it was tacked on, it really doesn’t fit imo. I just want it to be more helpful. A dash to a target that immobilizes, which is another form of disable, or creates evasion (theme, something d/d lacks because number 3 is not supposed to be there) seems right, and the dagger trait that applies poison on hits still works (see also my change to the traits). What would you change?

@Reinforever- I was thinking of making a video as well, which recording device do you use?
Also nice =D I tried this in spvp, but condi pu mesmers were brutal. I’m using full signet might over trap might.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/What-I-d-like-to-see-when-Thief-gets-checked – some more EXTREMELY impressive balance suggestions. great work boys

I’M FAMOUS WOOHOO!

A change to RtK for condi could be it hits 3 times? (the blink plus both daggeres, would be an easy animation) 3 hits means 3 instant venom applications? But I always figured the dagger/dagger set for versatility- backstab and auto for heavy damage, hs for execution, db (rtk) for defense while revealed, dancing dagger for a slow+great aoe damage, cnd for stealth+vuln. Should I post the RtK skill in General Discussion and beg anet to do it XD?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Serious Thought.5394:

You hit the nail on the head. The closer to the end of reveals they place us, the less they have to look at us before pushing HoT out. We’re like a zit that they can’t get rid of but try to lie that they are taking care of. Ready to bet our elite spec gets revealed on release day. So they don’t even have to face public opinion, they just toss our elite spec (without video) and the update together. Calling it, you read it here first.

It’s kind of a toss up between Thief and Ranger. Ranger was really terrible on release and the pet AIs were out of whack. Thief was actually functional and was a lot of fun to play on release.

So if there is a trend, Ranger may be revealed last.

I haven’t been here since release, more like on the Christmas of release year (yay presents). I’m referring to now over anything else. It feels like Anet wishes they hadn’t made thieves, because for most of what I remember we have been consistently nerfed over and over. Occasional buffs which were quickly fixed or re-nerfed later. =/ Not very optimistic. We aren’t terrible yet, but if you aren’t running D/X you are probably dead. If you don’t have shortbow, you are probably dead. Not a fun state to be in right now. Assassin’s Signet got nerfed super quick, but then Ranger’s got a form of it (And I have done massive damage with Axe 4 when I used that dps signet). =/ Running out of optimism friend.

Meant traits and utilities. Utilities is pretty quick though.

Utilities
Hide in shadows- Cast time reduced from 1 second to 1/2 second.
Signet of Malice- Cast time reduced from 1 1/4 second to 1 second.
Skelk Venom- Each venom application applies a stack of vulnerability.
Spider Venom- Each venom application applies a stack of vulnerability.
Skale Venom- Each venom application applies a stack of vulnerability.
Ice Drake Venom- Each venom application applies a stack of vulnerability.
Devourer Venom- Each venom application applies a stack of vulnerability.
Shadow Trap- Cooldown reduced from 45 seconds to 30.
Ambush- Cooldown reduced from 35 seconds to 30.
Signet of Agility- Clear all damaging conditions on yourself when activated. (New Active)
Blinding Powder- Cooldown reduced from 40 seconds to 30.
Shadow Refuge- Fixed a bug that caused players to become revealed if they left the circle while the skill was active.

Traits

Deadly Arts
Dagger Training- Now always applies poison.
Deadly Trapper- Also creates a charge system for traps. Traps can now last indefinitely and be placed 3 times before overriding the oldest trap.
Revealed Training- Reworked. Reduces revealed time by 1 second. Upon being revealed, target that caused reveal gains Weakness, 5 stacks of vulnerability, and cripple. Condition lengths are equal to length of revealed. (to counter the stealth counters, and also as a good way to continue an engage)

Critical Strikes
Ankle Shots- All pistol abilities now pierce, and can bounce to up to 2 additional targets. Enemies hit by pistol skills that do not have cripple are given cripple (2 seconds) if above 50% hp. Removed damage amplifier.
Hidden Killer- Reworked into “Brace for Impact”.
Brace for Impact- Abilities used from stealth now additionally apply 10 stacks of vulnerability to enemies hit for 3 seconds and grants thief Protection and Resistance for 3 seconds.

Shadow Arts
Resilience of Shadows- Merged Fleet Shadows into this Minor.
Shadow’s Embrace- Once again removes all conditions, prioritizing damaging conditions.

Acrobatics
Fleet Shadows- Reworked to old Might on Dodge trait.
Swindler’s Equilibrium- Removed requirement to be wielding a sword or spear.
Hard to Catch- Also creates a 1 second evasion frame. (other classes get so much more, seemed wrong not to add that)
Assassin’s Reward- Spending initiative also restores 1% endurance per initiative spent.

Trickery
Preparedness- Now baseline. Moved Lead Attacks here and moved Sleight of Hand to old Lead Attacks.
Lead Attacks- Merged the daze and damage from Sleight of Hand and this trait. Moved cdr to Sleight of Hand.
Sleight of Hand- Reduced cdr by 15%. That 15% is now baseline. Sleight of Hand replaced by Sneaky Interaction.
Quick Pockets- Reworked: Reduce weapon swap recharge by 3 seconds. Gain 1 initiative every 5 seconds.
Sly Fingers- Stolen items are now 20% more effective in the damage application. Boon and condition applying items are now 100% more effective (double the stacks, not the duration).

Feel free to add opinions and what not, but I just wanted to post what I was thinking as I tried to find builds (and none of them are anything short of "I kill you in 1 second, or you kill me at your leisure). I don’t mean to get all of these (because we won’t for one), but any mixture of this sounds like it’d be nice. To me a Thief should excel at nuking singular targets by preparing or picking a place to fight (which is why there will be more vulnerability applying things).

DAGGER~Balancing stat is Berserker.
Dagger auto- Cleave increased from 2 to 3.
Death Blossom- Reworked to “Rook takes Knight”.
“Rook takes Knight”- Cost 4 initiative: Blink behind target enemy or ally dealing moderate damage (about half of cnd) and applying immobilize for 3 seconds unless target already has immobilize. If target was already immobilized, you instead gain 1 second of evasion (basically dodging without dodging).
Dancing Dagger- damage increases by 5%, bounce increased by 1.
Cloak and Dagger- damage reduced by 5%, vulnerability application increased from 3 to 5, now applies blind.
Backstab- damage reduced by 10%. Always critically strikes from stealth.

PISTOL~Balancing stat is Rampager.
Fixed a bug when taking the ankle shots trait that caused two tooltips of sneak attack to show.
Vital Shot- Now pierces and applies 2 stacks of bleed instead of 1.
Body Shot- Removed the damage portion of this skill. Immobilize increased from 1 second to 2, vulnerability duration increased from 3 seconds to 5 seconds.
Unload- Cleaned up animation, added two more shots. Reduced cast time 1/2 second. Increased initiative cost by 1.
Blinding Powder- Blind field pulses increased from 3 to 4 (nerf revert) and field size increased from 120 to 180.
Shadow Strike- Shot damage reduced by 15%. Shadow strike now additionally applies two stacks of confusion.

Sword~Balancing stat is Marauder.
Sword auto cleave- Increased from 3 to 5 targets.
Infiltrators Strike- Return initiative cost removed. Engage initiative cost increased by 1. Return now breaks stun as well as removes condition and cast time for return has been removed.

Traits in next post.

You hit the nail on the head. The closer to the end of reveals they place us, the less they have to look at us before pushing HoT out. We’re like a zit that they can’t get rid of but try to lie that they are taking care of. Ready to bet our elite spec gets revealed on release day. So they don’t even have to face public opinion, they just toss our elite spec (without video) and the update together. Calling it, you read it here first.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=Vh33V;1Rw-a0K5N-Fd0;9;4IJM;0148147238;4INl3L;1NV05NV055a

So far, the struggles are minimal. I have very few people I can’t down in one shot, and when I can’t I know they are bunkers and I back up before I take any serious damage. However, these hurt:

Hammer/X Warriors
Condition Mesmers
Taunt Rangers

And only if they are pro-active or have incredible reaction time ^.^
Making my s/d build soon, but I expect it to be even better =D

Gray.9041:

I’d say it could cover a number of areas. firstly, I think your appraisal of current weapon uses is narrow. for conditions, I’d say dual daggers is better (poison on 1 and bleed on 3, also cripple on 4 if we’re counting non-damaging) than pistol main (bleed on 1 and immobilise on 2, if we count non-damaging ) but that aside, i’ll try and see what the staff could bring:

• Sustained High DPS – like a warrior’s greatsword.

• Burst DPS – it exists, but the only thing better than redundancy is redundancy

• Decent condition stacking – something we don’t really have, D/D and P/D only have about 2 damaging conditions each, and burning’s the only good condition now anyway (much as I hate the fact)

• Control. pistol offhand only has daze. (blind’s not really control) we could have a knockback, a knockdown, some kind of uncrossable barrier. none of which we get right now.

• Mobility/Evasion – again, sword has some. we could get dashes, distortion, full evades (troll poll perhaps?) or even an unrelenting assault-style high-movement move.

• Defensive – the staff could have blocks, grant protection/aegis/heals. defense is one area the thief is incredibly weak.

or Anet could surprise us with something else entirely. we won’t know until we see.
the other point is that the staff could easily be made to do any of the existing things better. we’re not really great at anything more than burst DPS, so we could see improvements in almost any area.

I was going for the current purposes, not meta per se but more how people have successfully used them. I have not seen any successful( nor made) D/D condi. P/D is better by leagues (bleed, immob/vuln, torment, cripple, vuln again).

Sustained dps might be a thing, problem is the thief defensive options (not skills, traits) are LIMITED at best. I don’t think thats the plan, and if it is mass hysteria and exodus will probably follow before anyone attempts to figure it out. Burst dps might be a thing, and if it that means daggers will be 100% obsolete, so again hysteria/exodus. Condi stacking is p/d and no way will staff be condi. Control and Evasion are where I see it working with low to minimal damage- probably stun from stealth and a dodge spam attack similar to pistol whip? And again defense. All they can do at this point is turn staff into a REACTIVE set, but sword is reactive already right?

Not trying to shoot you down, just playing at what I see happening that doesn’t outright murder another weapon set. And all I see if control, evasion, and defense as a mixture. Probably control/defense. Personally I won’t be excited on this as I already stated I’d love GS or sword-offhand, however I’d be even less hyped if it turns out to be support. Thief is never support, EVER, for any reason. Honestly trying to wrap my head around how we datamined a staff and who said that’d be a good plan? I can’t put any conceptual ideas to making it work without either obsoleting a weapon set (s/d is pretty close to gone) or fulfilling a niche that is anti-assassin. =/ Not to mention we are the last reveal, so we get less ideas and less hype potential. =/

Super worried. Need community help to figure this out. I am not complaining (intentionally, I might be without realizing), I just need to know. Tired of waiting and using my admittedly empty noggin to figure this out.

I probably spelled that wrong, but whatevs. What niche is it going to fill now? Support?

Daggers are your quick bursty (main and off, while d/d 3 is…uh…in the wrong place)
Sword is your evasion
Pistol main is your condi
Pistol off is your control

Genuinely curious. I personally would love an execution in reverse weapon (sword offhand, does more damage more hp target has. synergy with HS which does more for more missing), but everyone is set on staff and I’m hearing that we already have datamined confirmation (which I can never find). Whaddya guys think it’ll do? I have a feeling its gonna be boon spammy support.

I wanna buy tails as a back item that can be dyed, cuz that’d be super fun ^.^ You could buy 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 tails (200 gem each) or all tail sets(1000 gem) and then have them be dif colors. I mean we already have wings >.> what’s with the prejudice? We have 5+ wing back items (I’m sure far more, but 4 I know of off the top of my head) Is it because Charr? =(

I was looking for the official thief pvp guild, this it XD?

Maybe, but I find the 5k+3% damage is super awesome compared to the 2k and blind. But then again, I just dislike d/p super hard. Also, I found I can murder d/p meta users =D in one beautiful slap.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=Vh33V;1Rw-a0K5N-Fd0;9;4IJM;0148147138;4YBl0L;1NV05NV055a
That’s mine. Current backstab record sitting at 14.1k (glassy mesmers be glassy). I usually run a trap in there to hit 25 might stacks (and that backstab record is 16.3k) but most people think all traps are garbo so yea. =) D/d lives.

Can someone explain the luminescent armor thing to me?

I agree not everything should be available- but I shouldn’t look into a traitline (Thief again) and see options that I can’t live without. An entire trait line is dedicated to that. All it would take to fix is make the Master Minor base. I said change rng procs to a charge system or make it definite =) it makes sense to me. I’d go and edit my base post but…its so long >.>

I’ve pulled more burst out of my engi than my thief or mesmer… not sure if thats what we are going for but its been done ^.^

I’d like it if I could put any dance on any race. I love the sylvari dance, but…I play all humans… =/ I’d pay good money too ANET TAKE MY WALLET BUT LET MY THIEF DO THE SYLVARI JIG!!! ahem…uh… sorry.

I’m really really bad at explaining myself without being opinionated, but I’ll give it a shot.

Steroid trait- These aren’t “bad”, they are just very one dimensional/linear. Either it gives a good enough amount of stats to be desired or it does not. On top of that, the only indication you get that anything is happening is with a little icon on your screen’s hotbar of boons/conditions. If (for instance) “Empower” acted like sunfire cape, or spotter gave a chance to proc a mini sigil or air- that’d be different and myaybe just as effective.

Cooldown Reduction: No one said anything about this, and the only reason I put it is so devs have ease of balancing (and because its a bit odd imo…curse my opinionated mentality >.>) because thats the same reason they adjusted venoms on Thief and they stated such.

Redundant Traits: Can’t do it, gotta be opinionated. To me, its odd that you have two traits performing the same function in a different manner taking up two slots. It’s already been demonstrated that adding power and merging power is perfectly fine. If it’s something humongous of course don’t, but if its something like the Hammer+crit on stuns for Warriors ///or/// the cdr on steal+cdr on steal… I have to question it or someone needs to explain it to me. It opens more trait diversity and also adds realistic choices where you don’t have to go search and grab both traits.

Improper Reward: This one was complete opinion, I’ll leave it out.

Mandatory Traits: No one has argued this, and I think all classes have a line that they need. Some more than others, others less than some.

Rng traits: I’d like to see them hold charges that recharge over time instead of rng. For instance sigil of air- you get 1 charge every 5 seconds for a max of 1 charge total; this charge is expended on the next critical hit and recharge starts on expenditure. For traits like Thief daggers apply poison either add the charge system (1 every 1 second, max 3) or make it so all dagger attacks always apply poison.

Conflicting Traits: No one has mentioned this, I will not either.

@Indigo/Kalarchis- how do I make them neutral? I’m really really bad at keeping my mentality out of my posts which is why I have the first line of my signature =/

Redundant- superfluous, unnecessary.
Superfluous- more than enough. My application may be wrong, but I know what it means. Sorry for that though, should be better with picking words.

I mean I want something that isn’t a stat stick. Guardians have a toughness aura, but they have a signet that heals- I was thinking of flipping that or something. Warriors have a power aura- it’d be better if it acted like sunfire cape (look up League of Legends). Spotter on Rangers could give an aoe proc (not rng). I just hate stat sticks because it makes build calculations aggravating. I hate steroids because I pvp a lot, and steroids are….very one dimensional- they give you the desired effect or they do not.

Couldn’t find thief file and ended up farming gold (100 gold in 5 hours…new record for me =D).Will go line by line and pick problem traits and such to reduce post length. (before I continue, I had to talk to a guildie who saw my post and didn’t get why I hate stat sticks…guess it’d help if I explain why? The numbers in the game are nearly impossible to calculate (for instance 150 power only increases the Sword Auto on Warriors by 30 damage…) but a percentage is a percentage and is very easy to calculate and thus build around. it is far easier to work with a static concept then one that needs to be constantly calculated imo). This is just what I would change. Not what I think makes it healthy or unhealthy.

Deadly Arts: It only has three problems (technically four)- the rng on poison, the two trap traits, and gaining power for being revealed (but only on the reveal debuff). Make daggers apply poison every X attacks, revamp traps (heavily), and just replace the power trait- even if it says something like “Upon gaining Revealed, your next non-auto-attack-chain skill does 50% bonus damage” then it is so much better.

Crit Strikes- Keen Observer and Ankles shots. That’s it. And both are a matter of opinion rather than actual data, but Keen needs to be 75% hp OR all attacks crit while above 90% hp (which I think is a fantastic concept). Ankle just…no…pistols are bad. Otherwise this is an example of a cohesive and strong trait line ^.^ yaaaay

Shadow Arts: Last Refuge needs to go. Period. There was a thread with over 100 votes if memory serves that said delete this trait. Shadow’s Embrace needs a nerf revert. Cloaked in Shadow’s blind needs to move to Shadow’s Rejuvenation.

Acrobatics: Minors tell me this is a dodge line, but I have a stealth trait. Move the stealth trait (fleet shadow) to the stealth line. Hard to Catch needs to become harder to catch- instead of refilling endurance, do what other classes do and offer a window where we cannot be hit. After all evade line. We are the only class that does not have an invulnerable state (dodging/evasion do not count because other classes have it too) so being cc’d saying "refill endurance and evade incoming attacks for 1 second) is perfect for this line. Upper Hand and Swindler’s Equilibrium should just be together, it makes sense and you’ll see why in the Trickery line.

Trickery: This is the line that is mandatory for a well-rounded and viable dueling Thief build. Make the front two minors baseline and this would be far less necessary. Merge flanking strikes and trickster, merge thrill of the crime and bountiful theft, merge lead attacks and sleight of hand, merge pressure striking and bewildering ambush (into one or the other). Delete Quick Pockets and NEVER look back. So much redundancy and so much necessity. This is a trait line that thieves must take because it makes the class function. More than any other class, because we have no viable ranged dueling utility. Our conditions are burst and do less than Guardians/Eles with their burn builds, can instantly be cleansed by many other classes. And again burst. The second you gap close(open) you win a fight with the Thief class. We have to spend initiative (worse than blowing a cooldown) to get back into range and HOPE you don’t blow one of your far more potent cooldowns like Signet of Stone or Endure Pain or Distortion. Trickery however gives more initiative and a 10 second rip from our steals cooldown. That’s monumental. Without this line, very few (if any) thieves would work. If this line dies and thief is not buffed heavily elsewhere, you might not see many of us left.

Anywho, that’s my take on the traits. I did it quick since I didn’t have a draft saved, I apologize for the poor quality of post.

Sorry for the wall, will edit when I have time. Also can’t find the Thief one, so that’ll have to wait (or I’ll type from scratch when I edit the main).

@Randulf- the main post hit the 5000 letter marker, so I cleaned it up best as I could. Thanks for agreeing on the procs. My pet peeve is seeing that “well, if luck is on your side, you just might possibly in a distant RNGesus elevator apply bleed…otherwise gg, go die”. At steroids I mean, wouldn’t you rather have something other than “enjoy your 150 toughness”? I’m not saying the %damage is annoying or bad, that can stay because usually its tagged onto something else. But… isn’t it more fun and more useful to have a trait that doesn’t have text saying something like “gain 150 toughness for you and your allies”. It’d be better if they added something, but… yea.

@BrotherBelial- will try to provide a tl;dr later. Sorry.

@niae and duka- Um, k/thx?

@Batelle- I didn’t say it was bad. I said I’d rather have something there. I don’t want a trait that literally says “here is a stat stick”. I’m not sure…you … read my post… um. I can’t post in the class specific profession threads because they receive little to NO traffic from reds and reds need to see this. Seriously, find the last time a Red said anything in the Thief forum. I’ll be here tomorrow when you finish. Redundant traits are just that- they are two traits that should just be one. Why do I need to waste two slots to get two effects from the same idea? Meanwhile, Ranger’s trait gives shortbow cooldown, shortbow pierce, damage boost on dodge. In one trait. It doesn’t move the damage boost elsewhere.

@PrettyPixie- Quick Pockets is a wonderful example. You get 3 initiative for swapping your weapon. But as a Thief, and considering its a GM, you’d never pick this. Ever. You are forced into a shortbow to survive, and you have one damage set. You could try to argue two weapons, but then you’d look elsewhere. Another Thief trait allows you to break stun and refill endurance, but provides no way to prevent being chained. Mesmer reflects your cc, Necro fears you, Warrior flat out breaks with stability. Thief, again, gets endurance. Why? Something like evade all incoming abilities for one second would be far superior, and would put it on the line to those 3 mentioned traits, but it won’t happen for reasons unknown to people like me who try to think of a perfectly balanced and engaging game.

We need to talk. Like, serious discussion (puns unintended) about traits. Because you can’t deny how much traits make or break things. Hopefully, all of you will join on your thoughts and what not and with (LOTS) of luck we might get a red response.

Ok to me there are things you just don’t make for traits-
1)Steroids. Never. I don’t mean “gain 20% damage when target is below 50%” or something. I mean “give nearby allies 150 precision”. I want to slam my head into a wall when I read that. Why would I waste a trait for that? Also, “convert 10% of toughness into condi dmg”. No. That’s not only a steroid, its a BIG one. I don’t want to choose between overbearing or weak stat traits. I want something meaningful.
2) Cooldown reduction. Please stop. If I want to play a weaponset, I don’t want to search through my traits to see the “and if you buy now, we’ll throw in a second one free” ad. Either lower the cooldowns or don’t, but just remove these. They waste slots.
3) Redundant traits. “Hammer damage is increased by 25% to stunned targets. Oh and if you pick this trait in a completely unrelated line, you also gain 50% stun chance!!!!”….. “Now, you came to your thief. Good. Here- this trait lowers steals cd. But so does that one.” …. Stop. Just… stop please. Makes it look like no one cared when they read it, and makes us wonder if anyone did in fact read them.
4) Improper reward traits- 50% crit chance in deathshroud, 20% damage to targets below 50% hp…its like “oh you want big damage, here take these”. Then people are crying over a bursty meta… I wonder why. Not to say gaining damage is bad, but when the numbers are so high…
5) Mandatory traits. Anyone who plays Thief or Elementalist extensively will tell you that at least one line is mandatory. Not because of the benefits, or how strong it is, but because it contains so much that NEEDS TO BE BASELINE. Why do I have a trait that raises my base initiative? While you also nerfed the costs to be way too high on my skills? (cnd is 6, total without trickery line is 12, easy math folks) Elemental Attunement is pretty big.
6)RNG traits. Nuff said? Just in case not, I don’t want to pick a slot that “has a chance to” do something. That’s pointless. Either it does or it doesn’t, I don’t need random numbers. Neither do you when you balance. I don’t know anyone who enjoys gambling while trying to outplay someone.
7) Conflicting traits. One needs look no further than Rangers at this point. You have a trait that gives you 10% damage for keeping your endurance full, but on another line that you’d highly consider taking for damage you have a trait that gives you 10% damage for dodge rolling successfully.

Examples of good traits are everywhere however, because they (anet) do a good job very often- Panic Strike for Thieves is just beautiful. For doing your job as a thief, your trait rewards you. Meaningfully. Also, when you have a number of conditions on you, send them to your enemy (necro) and that synergizes with the signet trait that converts 2 boons to conditions when hitting someone with a signet. To me good traits are ones that reward you for playing. You don’t have to go “here’s a stat bar, eat it”. You get good traits like striking a foe while over 90% hp removes these conditions, burns apply blinds, blinds apply confusion. Things that, just by playing, you get an effect from. You don’t have to contemplate staying in one weapon set. You play how it makes you feel good, and you get something from it. Not to say everything will always be effective in that sort of scenario, but I don’t want to pick a trait that says I need a certain weapon to gain the effect (while wielding a sword, successfully evading an attack reduces steals cooldown).

Not saying Anet didn’t do a great job in some (a lot) of zones, but I wish they would take a quick second look. If you are set on releasing a new xpac, you need to be OPEN to suggestions and very willing to explain your reasoning. A one way door is one that people walk out of.

Before I talk about specific Traits lemme say (I’m going to make a bigger post on Thief and what I would do) I do think Anet needs to take time to read through each forum zone. Obviously you should have the manpower, your game is doing well. But then we look into the Thief and WvW forums and your last response to anything can be dated back to 2014. Anywho, Thief trait talk. Gotta find my file.

Hope you all read this, hope we get a red response, and I hope you share your thoughts and opinions with the rest of us. The threads purpose is for you to say what you see on traits and what your stance is on them- are they good, should we change some, are there specific traits that shouldn’t exist or that exist in a state too good too pass? I want to know what you guys think about these.

How do I do this and whats the rough output? I honestly know very, very little of pve. I’m that weirdo that plays PvP and WvW exclusively. Idk how to get to SW, what any reqs are…if I could get 100% rundown of what it is, where it is, how it works, how I make money, and any other pertinent information- I’d be extremely appreciative. Someone said making 100g a week wasn’t hard in this place, thats the reason I’m asking.

We reset the trait lines in our own manner? So things that don’t make sense where they are, things that shouldn’t have to be traited, traits that should me part of other traits? Kinda want to make Collaborative on this. Doubt a dev looks at this, last dev response on Thief was an undocumented and unspecifiable time in the far distant past seeming to extend safely into 2014. Correct me if I am wrong on that, but I see no Red for at least a year. Worth a try, however. And maybe throwing this into HoT or GD or PvP…just somewhere else and linking might help?

Anway, I was looking at Trickery. (incoming rambling)

It seems like our base initiative raise trait in that line should be base. That’s why I take it in EVERY build I make. You run out of init far faster than you can get your desired effects. Change Lead Attacks and Sleight of Hand- merge the steal cdr into the minor. Just all 35% in that trait. Then make Sleight of hand give damage and daze. I personally do not like the daze, so many “If I get cc’d, cc them back” traits around the block- however I need that cdr. Merge Thrill of the Crime and Bountiful Theft together, then add a new Adept Major. Flip the conditions on Bewildering Ambush and Pressure Striking- it makes no sense, if not just merge them together as well (interrupts apply torment/confu OR steal applies, I vote interrupt so there is a good set of options mid trickery). Whichever one gets the open space, make a trait for it. Move Quick Pockets into Acrobatics or make it more useful…as a stand alone trait, I have absolutely no reason to take it… Why do I need 3 initiative when I swap from my damage set to my shortbow or vice versa? All of our abilities cost more than 3 init (minus Sword 3 part 2, and possibly sword 2 chain?).

Basically Sleight of Hands Steal cdr goes into Lead Strikes, the damage from Lead leaves and goes into Sleight of Hand. Bewildering Ambush and Pressure Striking merge, preferably into masters so that interrupts (I would just change to dazes and stuns, then add an icd perhaps? Or just number check) apply torment and confusion, then add a new grandmaster. Preparedness is now base, we need a new minor in that spot. Quick Pockets just needs a look, it has absolutely no purpose for existing in 99% of builds.

Thoughts on this? Anything you would do to the differing trait lines?

Because Thief isn’t a team player. Every iteration of an elite specialization has dug deeper, not farther away from, the idea behind the class.

Guardians are supposed to be protectors, not front line, of their teammates. Traps offer control, Dragonhunter (though its name needs help) provides supportive utility and high damage. Guardian continues to keep its friends safe by offering the same things in a different way.

Necromancer becomes Reaper. Necromancer are supposed to be capable of taking a poor player from 50-0. Notice how Reaper gets tons of benefits when you get to 50% hp? Besides that, it can now incarnate as another form of death furthering the lore behind the class.

Ranger is druid. I know nothing of what Druid is because I can not find details.

Elementalist is Tempest. They were pitched and ironed out as a supportive utility class capable of doing the unpredictable and uncontestable. Thats why D/d is still a thing- not because broken fun, but because it is impossible to stop the ele from doing what they need to do.

Thief is an outlying assassin, waiting to pick off stray and maimed targets, lying in wait, hiding in safety. Your spec is near impossible to determine the purpose of, short of offering condition control. Problem is, P/d does that. Rifle is a power weapon. Has been, will be. Warriors and engis.

My run on Rifle:

Sniper
Rifle(stealth): Inflict moderate to high damage (not backstab level) and empower your next ability by 50%.
Rifle(auto): Inflict low to moderate damage that cripples enemies hit. Shots do higher damage, the lower a targets hp is (modified by up to 100%).
Rifle(2): Deploy an image (image not clone) of yourself while gaining stealth for 1s. While in stealth, which for the purpose of this skill will be called Reposition, you move 100% faster. Stacks with other traits.
Rifle(3): High damage attack (cost lots of init) that pierces and applies 10 vulnerability.
Rifle(4): Low damage attack that stuns targets. Does not stack stun.
Rifle(5): Gain superspeed, protection, might, quickness.

Instead of releasing a new spec, they buff and re-release traps. Idea behind traps will be to deny movement between areas or make the idea of approaching the thief daunting.

Traits: Different buffs to stealth abilities, new trait that says standing still and not taking damage gives stealth indefinitely, traits to buff traps, and a trait that works with Standstill which I would call Breathe Deep, Move Quick that allows the Thief to move from that indefinite stealth while keeping it for 3 seconds and would grant swiftness.

Just my take, it’d be unbearably broken in the right hands. But so far, Dragon/Reap/Chrono look to be in the same boat. Tempest and Druid are unknown, and Revenant does what we do better while using Shiro. My idea won’t happen ofc, and everyone is dead set on staff (which is bad, because then we still can’t kill people while being gunned down).