So after a hot start to begin the season, I’ve seem to have hit a brick wall full force. I was winning games and only losing 2 in a row before winning 4 in a row. Now at Saph T3 and I have yet to win a game. In fact I’ve lost 12 in a row. Unbelievable. Usually I learn from my losses to not make the same mistake but I have to give credit where credit is due. My teammates are crap. They go to mid and die like flies and then say “gg” or “lol” on map chat and proceed to afk or run into mid 3v1. It’s really pathetic. Match Making is WRONG this season. Make no mistake about it.
Get Gud? I can 1v1 any class except engi, DH and Druid. I’m season 1 legendary so don’t say I didn’t face people of similar skill level. Heck even now I can 1v1 a lot of classes who are legendary. The class you should be 1v1 easily are Necros, other teefs, Warriors and mesmers. I can kill ele essily too but takes a while so I usually avoid, revs are 50/50. DH I avoid. Druid and engi I can poke around and run away if I feel they’ll kill me.
Probably going to change when you get up another league or two. It’s supposed to be easier at the beginning now if you are better then average.
That’s actually false. The higher you go up the better teammates you will have. This was true last season, saph was a nightmare, Ruby was meh and diamond was a breeze. And when ur in legendary it’s even better. Reason why it sucks early on because you will often be matched with noobs and scrubs and play againts season 1 diamonds/legendarys. And it’s true with the opposit. You will be matched with high div players and play againts noobs and scrubs. All it takes is 1 noob to ruin the whole team.
Get ur legendary friends from last season and steam roll past the divisions. Made it to Emerald Tier 5 with a 65%ish win rate. Would probably be at saph but havnt played as much. Matchmaking is awful atm so try to find a group of good players.
Good to be back! Anyway so I noticed the new “meta” is apparently 2 revs, scrapper, necro and ele. Well tbh, I don’t see how that comp is more superior to the same comp except replace the extra rev with a thief. Thief counters necro, 50/50 with a rev and can shutdown an ele. Sure I could be bias since I main a thief but a great thief will always beat a great necro and shut down an ele. And I gotta say, Anet did a fantastic job balancing this time around, and I’m not joking. Every class except maybe one is viable in the right hands and no class is face roll OP, not even scrapper. Mesmer I guess is in a rough spot but like I said, in the right hands it’s awesome. Warriors I’m not sure, I’ve seen some good ones and some really bad ones, maybe the good ones were fighting bad players. Idk. Good luck to you all and may the pips be ever in your favor!
1. It’s a toss up. I use both Dash and Bound and have success with both and most importantly, enjoy both.
2. Acro line is solid, it’s just that there are other traits that give you more. DA is just too good of a trait not to take. Mug allows for quicker and stronger burst while giving you some health. Panic stike is great. And for me, I take executioner because the extra damage is awesome.
3. I use to use distracting daggers but found it to be underwhelming. Imo it’s either you’re to focused trying to land your dagger correctly instead of actually fighting that you die or you just end up not using it in the fight because well you don’t need it. I take impairing daggers now. It does really nice damage, slows opponents and poisond them suppressing their healing ability. Also immobilizes so you can sneak in a few autos.
The problem with backstab is that combo:
backstab+steal(mug) + fire/air procs + PI proc
already hits other thieves for like 85-90% hp in one-hit, so further buffing backstab going to oneshot-style fights, where thieves should randomly dodge to prevent being dead, because class don’t have healthy access to protection or other damage mitigation forms.
So, buffing backstab is unhealthy idea and won’t be implemented in any form.
What? Vault and Weakening Charge deal more damage than back stab and I have sigil of air/fire and precast with steal(mug) and it doesn’t 1 shot anyone except people who run ridiculous builds. And both those skills combined cost less initiative than BP→HS. All I’m suggesting is they increase back stab dmg by a tiny bit so it competes with Vault and Weakening Charge.
This really shouldn’t need any explanation. BS dmg is so low it’s not worth getting into stealth then going for a back stab when it will probably be blocked, invulned or evaded. It’s like trying to hit a bullseye in darts. Either increase the damage by 20% or make it so that face dmg is the same as back dmg.
The issue here is that you don’t understand that the criteria for maintaining that 51% is the difficult part. That’s like saying an amber can keep playing like an amber and hit legendary if their win rate is over 50%. You have to keep improving to maintain that 51% (or make a premade with the previous meta cheese).
The guy obviously has no idea what he’s talking about. He thinks keeping a 51% win rate is like a walk in the park. And he also doesnt get the fact that as the higher you climb up the division, the harder the competition will be. So yeah you do have to be good or else you will get reked by the big boys.
51% isn’t as hard as either of you are making it sound. Also the divisions still balance with mmr as well as division. The good players can maintain a 60% winrate in ranked. But it’s cool at least I can pat my head and rub my tummy at the same time.
Ok seriously, if it wasn’t so hard why don’t I see a bunch of Legendarys walking around? Plus I know people who tried getting to legendary and maxed at Diamond and they played a lot of games.
Because not everyone can play 20+games a day.
Playing 20+ games day for 8 weeks does not mean you’ll get to Legendary. Whoever told you that is incorrect. In fact, that’ll hurt your chances because you’ll be burned out meaning you won’t be playing at your A game. How I got to Legendary was anytime I lost 3 games in a row I’d call it a day. I’d also duo Q with friends who were good and had a decent knowledge of rotations. But most importantly, I knew when and how to milk win streaks. So if I won 3 games in a row I’d keep playing until I lose and then call it a day.
Seeing your target’s target is helpful sure, but is awful for the competitive nature of PvP. You’re effectively being able to see what your enemies are doing on a level that you shouldn’t actually have access to. It’s not really a very good idea, you’re not supposed to be able to see who someone is targeting.
Ehh not really, any solid player should be aware and know who their opponent is targeting. In seconds I know if I’m the one targeted or if my teammate is.
The issue here is that you don’t understand that the criteria for maintaining that 51% is the difficult part. That’s like saying an amber can keep playing like an amber and hit legendary if their win rate is over 50%. You have to keep improving to maintain that 51% (or make a premade with the previous meta cheese).
The guy obviously has no idea what he’s talking about. He thinks keeping a 51% win rate is like a walk in the park. And he also doesnt get the fact that as the higher you climb up the division, the harder the competition will be. So yeah you do have to be good or else you will get reked by the big boys.
51% isn’t as hard as either of you are making it sound. Also the divisions still balance with mmr as well as division. The good players can maintain a 60% winrate in ranked. But it’s cool at least I can pat my head and rub my tummy at the same time.
Ok seriously, if it wasn’t so hard why don’t I see a bunch of Legendarys walking around? Plus I know people who tried getting to legendary and maxed at Diamond and they played a lot of games.
Yes by default. GW2 is simply the best MMO right now b/c there isn’t a single MMO you can name that can top GW2. GW2 gives you everything without a subscription. Best combat, world, community. Innovative system. Solid PvP. Ok ish WvW. Best PvE no question about that. The only complaint I have is the armor in this game. Anet can u stop giving the medium classes trench coats and dresses?
The issue here is that you don’t understand that the criteria for maintaining that 51% is the difficult part. That’s like saying an amber can keep playing like an amber and hit legendary if their win rate is over 50%. You have to keep improving to maintain that 51% (or make a premade with the previous meta cheese).
The guy obviously has no idea what he’s talking about. He thinks keeping a 51% win rate is like a walk in the park. And he also doesnt get the fact that as the higher you climb up the division, the harder the competition will be. So yeah you do have to be good or else you will get reked by the big boys.
And another player who made it to legendary (supposedly) and can’t even play with mouse and keyboard at same time…. also invalidates any balance opinions…
Haha what are you trying to say? I didn’t smurf at all and mostly duo Qed.
I’m saying it’s ridiculous a player that can’t do what 98% of the players that play this game can make it to legendary at all.
Not accusing you of smurfing, duo queuing was the most effective way other than smurfing.
It just means even in leagues it’s clearly still just a grind to the top, I know players that I can 100-0 that made it to legendary and im not good.
Uhhhh no. Getting to Ruby is a grind but getting to Legendary is not. You actually have to be good and know how to play. I was just lucky cuz I play thief which doesn’t really utilize the mouse unless you are using SB. I played one hell of a thief and would probably reck most players. But to say Legendary is nothing but a grind tells me you are simply full of salt.
And another player who made it to legendary (supposedly) and can’t even play with mouse and keyboard at same time…. also invalidates any balance opinions…
Haha what are you trying to say? I didn’t smurf at all and mostly duo Qed.
If I had my right hand on my mouse, that means I have to use my left hand for my skills but then I can’t move my character. See what I mean?
No I don’t really see what you mean. I can press one of the wasd keys while pressing 1-4. Doing this while holding right mouse button lets you turn as fast as you want.
Since you’re not using your mouse, I assume you backpedal. This puts you at a huge disadvantage. But you already mentioned that I think.
I also have keys bound to the button on the side of my mouse and my scroll wheel on my mouse. They are easier to reach than any key on my keyboard because my hand is already on it.
No I don’t back pedal, that is stupid. The thing is, I do use my mouse but rarely, usually to use ground target skills and to turn when not in combat. But when I’m in combat I take my hand of my mouse.
You say you can keep 1 finger on WASD while hitting 1-4 but the way I see that is awkward. So I would have my index finger on D while my ring finger is stretching just to hit 1 or 2. I just don’t see how this is efficient.
Ok I play a noob set with wasd to move and the right hand number keys for all my skills and I rarely ever touch my mouse. I have auto target and auto hit on because, again, I don’t ever touch my mouse. This is becoming troublesome because whenever I fight a Mesmer, they spam clones and I’m forced to attack whatever my auto target chooses.
Plus, I feel I’m at a huge disadvantage to those who do play with their right hand on the mouse at all times because they can control the camera and who they are targeting.
So my question is, how the heck do you play with your mouse constantly in your right hand? The main reason why I use the number keys on the right side of me keyboard is so that I can move while using my skills. If I had my right hand on my mouse, that means I have to use my left hand for my skills but then I can’t move my character. See what I mean?
Than maybe they were as bad as the Dh’s?
Good Bunker Tempests with Earth are able to outsustain you, if they know when to dodge.
Sure they are beatable, same with Dh’s and other Classes. But those two are just annoying for a Thief/Daredevil, if played well. Wouldnt wasting time with them..
Idk but ever since their Protection uptime was fixed and cele amulet removed, they haven’t had the same sustain as they did during the bunker meta. Steal takes away their protection and I just auto away with heart seeker near the end. If they try to heal, use pistol 4 and interrupt procing pulmonary impact.
But DH, yeah them and Druid and maybe Scrapper are the only classes a thief should not 1v1.
A DH of equal skill on a decent build will generally wreck a thief at least in 1v1. The traps keep a thief off their melee game but the bow dishes out serious damage. We have to dodge the traps, but also dodge the pull and their big hitter on the bow. If you manage to do all that, you can probably expect at least one knockback when you get close, Aegis, at least one invuln and or course a big heal or two. Then they cycle all that over again.
Hard to imagine prior to a trap nerf they were even harder to beat. Course I would still rather square off against one of these than a bunker Tempest. They are unkillable at least with every build I have tried.
Bunker tempest still exists?? I eat those for my warm up snack.
Aggreed. “DH traps & true shot op, Druids bristleback op, thiefs op , necro corrupts & chill op, Scrapper damage & sustain op, … . " Half the classes are OP -_-.
Lol learn to play all classes you named are easely counterable
Yes, you can counter OP classes by using other OP classes.
The reason people complain is because there has been a serious power creep with HoT. Remember the “OP” D/D elementalist pre-HoT? How could this become a weak spec post-HoT (even before celestial removal)???
I have it for you:
Tempest is probably fine now (which means dead in the OP meta)
chrono is also getting closer to balance, but continuum shift is still too strong
reaper has OP condi damage
daredevil has OP damage
Druid has OP pet burst and too much (long) CC
Scrapper has over-OP sustain
Berserker is not too OP
DH has too much CC
Rev has still a bit too much sustain
so here we are: 6 out of 9 are OP. What this also means is that instead of bringing additional diversity in PvP, elite specs have just removed what was before and actually reduced diversity.
And now people want to buff the core specs to be able to reach the OP level of the elite specs… Yes, you could balance things like this, but this is a terrible idea. Power creep has made the game much less fun. You can now spend a huge amount of time stun locked or get all conditions in the game on you in less than 2s. The only proper fix is a massive nerf to most elite specs. Some people won’t be happy at first, but this will make the game much healthier.
Tempest got arguably nerfed slightly too hard(meh)
Chrono you dont even see in pvp anymore(meh)
Reaper get counterered hard by condi cleanses (learn to focus target and cleanse)
You are just mad at daredevils ganking you all day(btw a good player should never lose vs a thief in a 1v1 due to the fact they have allmost no survivability)
Druid only has a few cc’s and has to sacrifice dmg to get them longer and can be beaten 2v1 easely(closest we have to a tank atm so that fits and learn to focus his pet and either learn his tells or get some stab)
Same for scrapper though most of his survivability comes from core lines
Berserker meh they are basicly medi guards without the teleport but with a cc chain (stunbreak and dodge their dmg rotation then /laugh as they run(if they are smart) or watch them die fairly quick to any decent player)
DH they are pretty easy to beat just range them and use stab+ block to trigger their traps to then dodge out of them
And revs honestly unless they are +1 ing are quite a joke
So basicly learn how to do basic stuff like condi clear, dodge/ use stab on big tells its a learn to play issue not a specialisations are OP/p2w issue
I’m sorry but that’s false. Any GOOD daredevil, you will not kill because either they’ll kill you or disengage. Don’t believe me? How about you 1v1 me. Second, the classes you should not be losing to in 1v1s are Warriors and Tempest. Tempest is squishy as hell and can’t disengage and Warrior is warrior.
You do realize there currently is no meta? And second, no one is forcing you to play Meta builds. Like me for example, I played a Thief during the Bunker Meta, and not your regular D/P thief, I played a staff thief build that I came up with. Believe or not, I made it to Legendary Division x2 using only my thief even tho people said Thief was practically “dead” in that Meta. So my advice to you is to just experiment with builds that are fun to you but add reasoable adjustments to make your build viable. And lastly, git good.
Don’t know if this has already been discussed to death but yeah, there are very few Achievemnts for Mastery Points in core tyria. And even then, those Achievemnts take a long time to do such as the diving goggles one. The collections ones are laughable at best. And TT is practically impossible. So instead I decided to buy LWS2 cuz it was the only way to get enough mastery points to get max rank. Bummer.
From what I’ve seen, Thief might be the class with the most options. There’s your usual D/P build. And then you have the team fight oriented staff build. Then there’s the S/D Acro build, a build all about evading. And lastly the D/D condi build with the main goal being to stack bleeds. A lot of options to play if your a thief.
I’m afraid you are inexperience. There are no viable builds. Viable meaning that equally skilled people with split wins 50%.
I stopped reading when you said “no viable builds.” I think your the inexperienced one here buddy.
actually the only competitive build for thief is still d/p
staff is still more or less of a gimmick even as it becomes more popular
both s/d and d/d are not serious s/d doesnt do enough damage and s/d 3 barely offers something what staff 5 doesnt,
d/d loses against other condi spammers (hi reaper) and its way too focused on applying a single type of condition – bleed, which grants it easily removed while a prerequisite of a good condi build is spamming enemy’s condition bar with every possible red icon existing in the game
Yeah true lol 4 was kind of a stretch but I’ve seen some condi thieves absolutely wreck the opposing teams because they just evade everything. But, imo, D/P and staff are the more serious and competitive sets. I got to legendary using staff. It does a lo of dmg, has blind on demand and good for team fighting. D/P is D/P. S/D, well it’s still too early to tell. I’ve seen some really solid play with S/D
Lol. Please do not talk about legendary armor. If there’s one thing Anet seriously sucks at its their design on armor. Their armor designs are some of the worst in the MMO genre. Just ask the medium armor classes. There is a never ending supply of trench coats, oversized boots that wouldn’t even fit a Norn, and yeah, some really, really ugly boots. The look of the legendary armor will be nothing special or pleasing, just forget about it.
From what I’ve seen, Thief might be the class with the most options. There’s your usual D/P build. And then you have the team fight oriented staff build. Then there’s the S/D Acro build, a build all about evading. And lastly the D/D condi build with the main goal being to stack bleeds. A lot of options to play if your a thief.
Just wanted to give a shoutout to the Anet design team. Finally got my hands on one of the timekeepers weapons and can honestly say they are one of the best designed weapons in the game. The weapons all look really nice but the thing that really caught my eye, or ear, is how they make a really cool clock noise when you unsheathe the weapon. This is a feature they didn’t have to add, they could have simply just left it out because after all it’s just a regular weapon skin. Instead they dont. Its just another reason why I enjoy the game. Keep up the good work fellas!
Lol you may prefer dps wars to bunker wars but its the exact opposite meta. When 90% of classes spam condi like chewing bubble gum and now thieves back stab for 9k, its still a terrible meta.
On my ele i went to water/arcane/tempest since earth trait line isnt any good anymore and i can win my 1 vs 1 but die instantly in 1 vs 2.
On my warrior i can sustain a tiny bit but mesmers/thiefs spam so much condi and blind its a bit frustrating. Also the fact that engy has better base dmg in melee and guardians cant be attacked with there F3 skill just feels dumb.
I can go down the list of things that just feel so dumb but this meta is crap just like the other one.
Where is the give and take? They still didnt fix anything, classes still have full passive condi clear with insane dmg and full boons without doing anything. Ele was suppose to be the jack of all trades class and they simply turned a little too strong and now with the HOT every class but warrior feels too strong.
Lordsicky made a comment about this game purely being about comps and rotations and he/she is 100% correct. This meta change didnt do anything but change of the pace of a already destroyed system.
Lol thief only got AA buff. So saying “now Theives back backstab for 9k” just shows how misinformed you are.
I’ve played with D/P and Dash since June2015, but moved over to bound. I come from the 66200 full zerker Scholar runes burst dagger/dagger days and I am reliving this again using d/p with bound and Scholar runes.
The +10% dmg from Scholar + 10% from Bound buff + Bound-Mug-Backstab burst combos give me satisfaction.
Personal taste, but I think bound is more fun, reminds me of doing cannonball dives in a swimming pool. Sometimes the swimming pool is a DH trap, but oh well.
Lmao. I’ve noticed the animation on BD too and it has your toon look like its about to dive off a cliff into the ocean. Good stuff man.
Yea after playing around some more, I found BD is really good with D/P while Dash is really good with Staff.
Is it opposite day?
Really? BD works so well with pistol off hand. You get easy access to stealth without wasting initiative. BD has insane burst with Dagger. Dodge > Steal > Heartseeker then auto. Idk man.
Yeah this skills is weird as heck. I’ll use it within 600 range and for some reason it’ll say “obstructed” or “out of range” and I’m like what the heck? Like it would be a direct line of sight and itll say “obstructed.” The only time I get this skill to connect is when I’m standing right next to the player. Scorp wire isn’t bugged it just sucks. You have to line it up where it is a perfectly straight line between you and whoever u are targeting.
Tempest protection uptime went down the drain with the bug fix of Earth Overload, down to 7 seconds protection (full channel; full stay on AoE) from 25. Though, the protection uptime of Druid was kept untouched. What is this about?
Wow so Ele was OP because of a bug? Lol didn’t know that. So this wasn’t a nerf but a bug fix. Don’t know why people are complaing about this then.
Can’t speak for the current meta. But for the previous meta don’t your own words imply that staff is/was better than D/P?
Last meta was a teamfight/bunker on point fest where ability to drop AoE’s was more important than ability to 1v1. Esp as thief, you probably don’t want to have many solo fights, and the ability to stall on a point was much more valuable than actually winning it.
In most fights, D/P is going to be better choice due to its higher 2 target DPS and general utility. It is a much better group utility weapon. Staff has a DPS edge in fights of 3 players or more. Unlike D/P though, Staff has manageable counter play aside from the usual AoE bombs. Vault interrupts can get a player killed.
IMO if a player is going to max out their 3+ enemy DPS, go with S/P. It has Pistol Whip which is far more damage than Vault and that attack is an evade along with a daze. It also comes with an extra teleport, condi removal, weakness, cripple, Black Powder and Headshot daze. Basically nothing is wasted on S/P or D/P.
Yeah I’ve decided I’ll stick with staff. It carried me to legendary so why not. D/P I just can’t get a good grasp on it. Some games I’m killing everyone the next I can’t land a back stab to save my mothers life. The BP>HS is kinda clunky imo and I’ll usually just end up wasting 9 initiative. Shadow shot is so good but again I just can’t for the life of me grasp this weapon set.
Played a quite a few now and really the same thing just easier because of the nerfs. And I’m not saying easy as in like I can kill anyone I look at but easy as in things are actually killable now. Other than that idk why ppl are screaming that we got over buffed.
That is not at all what happened. They just swapped who’s insanely op. I don’t play mesmer but them and ele might add well get deleted. Which is not balance.
Ur kidding right? Everyone was so use to broken Mesmer class that now since they actually have to try and play with skill they are mad they can’t be the “OP class.” As far as I’m concerned, this is balance. Having Ele and Mes being virtually unkillable is not balance. Having a Rev condi you to death by simply standing next to you is not balance. Have 2 classes virtually unplayable is not balance. Having all classes now required to have skill to play IS BALANCE.
let me guess… you play an untouched or buffed class and think you are skillful now cause anet nerfed everything to crap. Yeah you are just that good
Ok whatever class I play is immaterial. The point I’m trying to get across is just because your class, which was broken, was fixed with this patch doesn’t mean ur class is not viable. YOUR CLASS DOESNT NOT HAVE TO BE SUPER POWERFUL TO BE VIABLE. I mean come on, anyone with any decent knowledge of GW2 PvP knew clearly that Mes was insanely broken and that the Bunker meta was toxic. And now since every broken class has now been brought down with the rest of the classes everyone is complaing and whining because they want their broken classes back so they can be the super powerful class again. These guys have become so use to playing super powerful classes and having advantages over other classes that they can’t stop to think that maybe their super powerful classes needed to be nerfed in order to achieve balance.
Rofl sure dude
Overnerfing classes at the same time you overbuff others at the same time you delete defensive amulets from pvp is pure balancing.
Great joke
And yep, biased much for thief.
Whatever insane buff thief got pls tell me. I’m still looking for it. Aside from the AA increase not one thing is even remotely useful. Thief still as tough as cardboard, were still trapped with taking trickery, Acro line is sub par at best, Impact strike still better than BV.
As for over nerfing, do you really want another bunker meta? I thought the consensus was that is was boring to play and required little skill. And I really think your’re over exaggerating it. I can’t really speak for this cuz I don’t play Ele or Mes but there’s no way they were nerfed to the point where it’s completely useless. I’m sure once everything gets settled in you’ll see what I mean.
That is not at all what happened. They just swapped who’s insanely op. I don’t play mesmer but them and ele might add well get deleted. Which is not balance.
Ur kidding right? Everyone was so use to broken Mesmer class that now since they actually have to try and play with skill they are mad they can’t be the “OP class.” As far as I’m concerned, this is balance. Having Ele and Mes being virtually unkillable is not balance. Having a Rev condi you to death by simply standing next to you is not balance. Have 2 classes virtually unplayable is not balance. Having all classes now required to have skill to play IS BALANCE.
let me guess… you play an untouched or buffed class and think you are skillful now cause anet nerfed everything to crap. Yeah you are just that good
Ok whatever class I play is immaterial. The point I’m trying to get across is just because your class, which was broken, was fixed with this patch doesn’t mean ur class is not viable. YOUR CLASS DOESNT NOT HAVE TO BE SUPER POWERFUL TO BE VIABLE. I mean come on, anyone with any decent knowledge of GW2 PvP knew clearly that Mes was insanely broken and that the Bunker meta was toxic. And now since every broken class has now been brought down with the rest of the classes everyone is complaing and whining because they want their broken classes back so they can be the super powerful class again. These guys have become so use to playing super powerful classes and having advantages over other classes that they can’t stop to think that maybe their super powerful classes needed to be nerfed in order to achieve balance.
Ill tell you what I don’t like. Basicly every tanky option for an Amulet removed the same patch thieves turned into gods.
Also, Unhindered Combatant nerf. (ICD on condi clear)
A chilled thief is a dead thief. We rely on mobility and chill would just be a hard counter to us. That’s not balance. Dash is balanced. Necros chill us so we waste a dodge which means they can get a few hits on us. Cuz after all, thief is still as tough as wet paper.
I feel like I’m beating a dead horse now but why would you consider this patch a failure? Actually, I have a better question: What would you have liked to have seen in the patch?
That is not at all what happened. They just swapped who’s insanely op. I don’t play mesmer but them and ele might add well get deleted. Which is not balance.
Ur kidding right? Everyone was so use to broken Mesmer class that now since they actually have to try and play with skill they are mad they can’t be the “OP class.” As far as I’m concerned, this is balance. Having Ele and Mes being virtually unkillable is not balance. Having a Rev condi you to death by simply standing next to you is not balance. Have 2 classes virtually unplayable is not balance. Having all classes now required to have skill to play IS BALANCE.
