Guild Wars 2

Game was £25 on release, you can find it close to £20 now, shop around.

It’s limited by the game, it has a horrible performance regardless of how beastly you make your machine.

It’s been -£15 for a while now, shop around.

Morfedel.4165:

Shen Slayer.3058:

Ohoni.6057:

HoT did not fail.

It did totally fail.

Prove it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/KDB-Daewoo-sales-warning-for-HoT/first#post5931906

Coulter.2315:

Tommyknocker.6089:

I am, yet again, truly hoping that BnS and BDO can cater to the more hardcore players and can entice those that like that kind of thing away from GW2. Unfortunately it did not happen with Wildstar and I had high hopes there too.

My hope is that someday, something, might lure them away from GW2 and maybe then we can say goodbye to esports while making verticallity optional again. It may be a pipe dream, but until ANet starts showing some semblance to the game I fell in love with in 2012, I will just continue to do my daily and log out; for now.

Edit: oh yea forgot.. kill the kitten timers on EVERYTHING, thank you!

So just to check, by your own admission you aren’t really playing the game much and you want GW2 to lose its dedicated players to another game.. Wow you sound like the perfect person for Anet to listen to..

The Raid is fun and I hope they continue to produce interesting bosses, the new maps are well deisgned and I hope they continue to produce good work.

Or competition brings out the best in people.

Most players who are “bashing” the game actually give a kitten but are usually told to just leave by the playerbase.

I wouldn’t worry about those who are here bashing the game, worry about when they don’t care enough to come back.

Shadow Master.7586:

Any feature that has to be selectively disabled in specific places is a feature that should not be implemented.

Game Design 101

Consistency is mandatory.

Either you enable a feature everywhere, or you don’t implement it at all. Selective enabling/disabling is disgusting and is game design failure by definition.

So WvW and PvP to get it too, also the auto loot for WvW…

There are 101 features that don’t translate, hell, we want them to split more features, like spells so we don’t keep seeing things buffed and nerfed based on PvP.

Calydro.7268:

The grind in this game has always been cosmetics.

Which is why I’ve always said Anet have been absolute geniuses with their game and cash shop.

How often do you hear “it’s only cosmetic” in ANY game? It’s brilliant, no one seems to care.

Zhaitan isn’t selling expansions using the jealousy tactics of gliding, Shatterer will probably get a few, Zhaitan won’t be updated.

Gliding was the cheapest easiest way to get the mounted feeling.

There will never be mounts simply because of how much time and effort needed to be put into each race to do so. They can’t even stop horrendous clipping of weapons and armour now, what makes you think they’ll do it with mounts?

Having said that, as long as they keep selling you things you can do in other games for box price, they might try to invest in it in the future. Hell they’re might be more ideas they take from the forums to sell back to you as well.

FrouFrou.4958:

In the future, we’ll continue to explore ways to improve on the ranger’s ties to both their pets and nature.

Inc nerf Smokescale and Bristleback so the vanilla pets will seem more desirable again?

How else will they sell more expansions if everything in it isn’t a direct upgrade to vanilla?

Vayne.8563:

Want a buff from the guild buff character Nathan the Bartender? You get a message saying you need HoT.

I remember when my initial purchase used to give me buffs.

Raziel.4216:

Archdevil.1748:

Raziel.4216:

Vieux P.1238:

Well Failure is a strong word i would’nt use to describe. But it has failed to be a success.
It’s more that it has’nt reached the potential it could of had.

According to whom?
We don’t know how successful it is, but we know it didn’t fail significantly by whatever meassure they use, no company would greenlight a second expansion after the first one failed.

MMO’s are not general games and this is not a second edition of a game. If they don’t green light another expansion will mean exactly the opposite. It will mean the game is dead. It would be a suicide not to make expansions.

If a game doesn’t succeed then there’s no point in investing more into aditional content.
It’d be even worse to make more expansions if the last one failed, that alone tells us it didn’t fail, we just don’t know how succesful it was.

The alternative was giving away the content in LS for free, here they made money from their content. I’d definitely push more of that kind of thing.

Raziel.4216:

Sicarius.4639:

vesica tempestas.1563:

“They can plan another xpac all they like. I wish them luck but they won’t get a sale from my household. I don’t even go into HoT maps.”

So if the xpac turns out to be right down your street your not going to buy it? over dramatic nonsense.

Consumer power, he has every right to withhold from this purchase, unfortunately enough people will throw that power away and preorder it day 1 as usual.

Maybe they like what they see, they have every power to make the purchase.
Unfortunately for the ones who continue to claim it failed.

Given that it’s digital, they’re not running out of copies any time soon. They can buy it on release, that way everyone can be fully informed about the game. The upside to waiting far outweighs the risk of preordering on a few flashy cutscenes and buzzwords.

Wouldn’t have so many people outraged Day 1 like we did if they’d had waited.

vesica tempestas.1563:

“They can plan another xpac all they like. I wish them luck but they won’t get a sale from my household. I don’t even go into HoT maps.”

So if the xpac turns out to be right down your street your not going to buy it? over dramatic nonsense.

Consumer power, he has every right to withhold from this purchase, unfortunately enough people will throw that power away and preorder it day 1 as usual.

Nikkinella.8254:

can we also have gliding in wvw? it would make that atrocious desert borderland mildly tolerable.

Soon as it establishes a tactical advantage it’s a sure fire way to get everyone who plays WvW to buy the expansion too.

Morfedel.4165:

Archdevil.1748:

It is not fun. A lot of people hate it like me. It does not give the same feeling as Core Tyria. A greater challenge they said. Better rewards they said. All I get is the same junk. I don’t have any incentive to go there. I am better off farming Silverwastes. It is more fun. And all the timer madness is broken and casual unfriendly!

Calling it a failure because YOU and some people you know don’t like it isn’t calling it a failure. Why? Because me and a lot of people I know really like it, a lot.

The only thing that determines if it’s a failure or not is sales numbers. If/when they release those numbers we will know better. But don’t go around making factual declarations of what is clearly nothing more than opinion.

Doubt we’ll see sales numbers.

They like to deal in Monthly Actives, so that one login you make counts as an active account.

Sold 5m world-wide.

1.5m monthly paid actives (“Historically”).

Doubled player base, becoming 3.1m players after going F2P (2m F2P accounts).

Even with the numbers, we will never know who is actively playing and how many accounts are owned by the same players (due to being able to have cheap alts and F2P alts)

Jaxom.7310:

Daharahj.1325:

I’ll quote myself on this one.

I mean, we tried. Both reddit and forums are packed with constructive criticism and legitimate complaints, ANet hasn’t replied to a single one. There’s nothing else to do but sit back and watch their esports dream fail.

can’t be a fail. colin sayd over 400k unique viewers last time which = a win. anet might just be the charlie sheen of mmos. u wonder what they are doing? winning

Nice to know 3000 keep coming back, right up their with the titans of the mobile moba games!

Looks like it’s getting to the point where Anet can’t literally even pay people to play their game.

jessiestiles.9437:

Without bunkers I won’t be able to go take my midfight coffee break and be back in time to heal full.

I’m sure you could just do this…

https://youtu.be/NhYGyHhTRYk

Silas Eorth.7348:

Enjoy it for what it is. And if you don’t like it, you can always take a break and come back when something about it appeals to you again.

How is that going to happen when those who don’t like it are deemed salty and told to leave? Then you have a forum of people saying it’s great and nothing ends up changing and or the game dies.

Notsoperky.2348:

Sicarius.4639:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

So for like 3 years I have been saying Anet has to do something about the grind. Also saying that with HoT players will come back, feel the grind and might leave again, something you for sure do not want with your first expansion. As they will not come back for the second one if they now leave again.

And for that what some people consider required vs optional grind does not matter at all. People feeling grind is the problem.

Anyway, I just found a perfect example of that.

Back around launch I used to watch Tales of Tyria, a youtube show about GW2. The show and the guild that helped with the show pretty much left in April of 2013.

I just happen to see they have started a new show because just before the launch of HoT they (the show and the guild) came back. And lo and behold. Pretty much the first thing they talk about in the first episode (since their back) is the grind.

It’s just the perfect example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUpJ7G_Ey6g (19:00 > 33:00) of what I am talking about.

So people can have all these discussions about required grind and none required grind (all grind is optional anyway) but it does not matter even a little. People feeling grind is the problem.

And let me go a step further.. You could remove the grind by removing the rewards, like they did with dungeons. But that does also not help if you still need the rewards / currency.

You just have to make specific rewards for specific content so you do content for its rewards instead of doing things that reward you the best currency that you need to buy all the items you want.

Just wanted to throw that example in here. I think it’s a good show to follow also to see how people who left and now come back, look at the game. What is very important to know.

Sure those who originally played this game, in part, don’t like the changes made to the game. But that doesn’t mean people don’t like it, even if some of the original people don’t.

You’re talking about the most vested fans making a podcast. You’re talking about a generation of people trained to play other MMOs. They wanted X and got Y. But that doesn’t mean people aren’t playing Y.

There are absolutely people disenfranchised and they’re loud, sure. But there are absolutely people having fun too, who aren’t as loud because they have no reason to be.

What you’re saying is looking I can point out an example that proves I’m right. No one said some people aren’t happy and aren’t playing. But the game is doing well, by all reports. We’ll see how well in six months.

I think you’ll be surprised.

I am talking about a player-base that did shrink, now comes back with the expansion and you don’t want to shrink (that much) again. Thats all.

Up until the announcement of HoT income was consistently shrinking. It was not at a bad point but when it would continue that line it would become back. Now you have a spike because of the expansion and clearly there will be a drop of players as well. However you don’t want that drop to go to the point where it was just before the announcement of HoT and then continue to go down as it did.

With HoT you want to also get members back that this time around do stay.

Okay, the game goes free to play. It gets a boatload of new players, some of which convert to HoT some of which don’t.

It’s better value for them because they lose restrictions on their free to play account.

You lose some people due to attrition for whatever reason, you gain a base from people that are free to play.

Those that don’t like the changes leave and those that do, take up the expansion To me that’s business as usual.

When I ran a business we lost and gained customers all the time. So yes, all MMOs have natural attrition. WoW, Guild Wars 2, Final Fantasy, all of them. They’re all losing market share. An expansion comes out and they gain a bit and then start losing again. It’s the cycle.

The specific numbers are far more important than any annecdote. My guild has about the same traffic now that it did before, but it’s not all the same people.

Some guys had left because the game was too easy. they’re back. Some people who liked the game don’t play as much because it’s too much “work”.

Saying some people aren’t happy with the expansion isn’t a revelation to anyone. Did you see comments on the last WOW expansion? The same thing happened. It happens in every game.

The numbers are far more important than just knowing that some people are leaving. We’ll know the numbers, not in three months, but more like six.

It will never be cut and dry unfortunately due to the nature of not having a sub.

People cancel subs when not playing, it’s much easier to see how active or inactive your playerbase is (yes, some people forget and or don’t care about paying subs when inactive) but usually if you’re not playing, you’re not paying.

With GW, currently most of the people I’ve been playing with over the years sign in for 15 seconds and claim their daily chest (with the long term goal being, “well maybe it will get good”). Then when monthly active numbers roll around, you won’t have a good representation of who are actually in-game playing (3.1m half of which are F2P).

Depends on how you measure your numbers.

Numbers for ‘logged in for more than an hour a day’ would show a faction of the number of ‘active accounts’, which counts anyone who logged in during however long a period they use. For instance, if I log in, say, 6 accounts (remember those $10 days) just for the daily and maybe one vet mob guarding a box, that counts as 6 active ‘players’.

Would be interesting to see some figures for retention based on a reasonable time span in game and also how many F2P player convert.

Grind is defined by what you feel it is. For me, trying to do a JP over and over again is the most boring tedious frustrating grind – for someone else, this might be something they skip through in five minutes whilst waiting for the kettle to boil.

Does the game contain a lot more activities that require repetition, time gating, event gating, laurel gating and gating behind JPs than there were at launch? Yes. To anyone other than the utterly besotted that’s more grind.

Only metric I’ve seen Anet use is monthly actives (3.1 half being F2P). It’s going to be pretty vague going forward if they continue like this and probably one of the biggest catch alls.

Especially after an expansion…

Too much work, won’t happen.

I saw Guild War$ 2 today, gave me a chuckle.

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

So for like 3 years I have been saying Anet has to do something about the grind. Also saying that with HoT players will come back, feel the grind and might leave again, something you for sure do not want with your first expansion. As they will not come back for the second one if they now leave again.

And for that what some people consider required vs optional grind does not matter at all. People feeling grind is the problem.

Anyway, I just found a perfect example of that.

Back around launch I used to watch Tales of Tyria, a youtube show about GW2. The show and the guild that helped with the show pretty much left in April of 2013.

I just happen to see they have started a new show because just before the launch of HoT they (the show and the guild) came back. And lo and behold. Pretty much the first thing they talk about in the first episode (since their back) is the grind.

It’s just the perfect example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUpJ7G_Ey6g (19:00 > 33:00) of what I am talking about.

So people can have all these discussions about required grind and none required grind (all grind is optional anyway) but it does not matter even a little. People feeling grind is the problem.

And let me go a step further.. You could remove the grind by removing the rewards, like they did with dungeons. But that does also not help if you still need the rewards / currency.

You just have to make specific rewards for specific content so you do content for its rewards instead of doing things that reward you the best currency that you need to buy all the items you want.

Just wanted to throw that example in here. I think it’s a good show to follow also to see how people who left and now come back, look at the game. What is very important to know.

Sure those who originally played this game, in part, don’t like the changes made to the game. But that doesn’t mean people don’t like it, even if some of the original people don’t.

You’re talking about the most vested fans making a podcast. You’re talking about a generation of people trained to play other MMOs. They wanted X and got Y. But that doesn’t mean people aren’t playing Y.

There are absolutely people disenfranchised and they’re loud, sure. But there are absolutely people having fun too, who aren’t as loud because they have no reason to be.

What you’re saying is looking I can point out an example that proves I’m right. No one said some people aren’t happy and aren’t playing. But the game is doing well, by all reports. We’ll see how well in six months.

I think you’ll be surprised.

I am talking about a player-base that did shrink, now comes back with the expansion and you don’t want to shrink (that much) again. Thats all.

Up until the announcement of HoT income was consistently shrinking. It was not at a bad point but when it would continue that line it would become back. Now you have a spike because of the expansion and clearly there will be a drop of players as well. However you don’t want that drop to go to the point where it was just before the announcement of HoT and then continue to go down as it did.

With HoT you want to also get members back that this time around do stay.

Okay, the game goes free to play. It gets a boatload of new players, some of which convert to HoT some of which don’t.

It’s better value for them because they lose restrictions on their free to play account.

You lose some people due to attrition for whatever reason, you gain a base from people that are free to play.

Those that don’t like the changes leave and those that do, take up the expansion To me that’s business as usual.

When I ran a business we lost and gained customers all the time. So yes, all MMOs have natural attrition. WoW, Guild Wars 2, Final Fantasy, all of them. They’re all losing market share. An expansion comes out and they gain a bit and then start losing again. It’s the cycle.

The specific numbers are far more important than any annecdote. My guild has about the same traffic now that it did before, but it’s not all the same people.

Some guys had left because the game was too easy. they’re back. Some people who liked the game don’t play as much because it’s too much “work”.

Saying some people aren’t happy with the expansion isn’t a revelation to anyone. Did you see comments on the last WOW expansion? The same thing happened. It happens in every game.

The numbers are far more important than just knowing that some people are leaving. We’ll know the numbers, not in three months, but more like six.

It will never be cut and dry unfortunately due to the nature of not having a sub.

People cancel subs when not playing, it’s much easier to see how active or inactive your playerbase is (yes, some people forget and or don’t care about paying subs when inactive) but usually if you’re not playing, you’re not paying.

With GW, currently most of the people I’ve been playing with over the years sign in for 15 seconds and claim their daily chest (with the long term goal being, “well maybe it will get good”). Then when monthly active numbers roll around, you won’t have a good representation of who are actually in-game playing (3.1m half of which are F2P).

Congrats you’re now competitive in PvP.

Smoosh.2718:

Sicarius.4639:

True, ok then, lets compare with Vain Glory and freaking MOBILE game, 4k views. Uh oh.

Did you just quote … a post… from… 2 years ago?
Guys… He is a real life necro!!!

Haha, so I did (although it shows it as only 3 months to me now I’ve looked), hadn’t looked at dates… although…

Given the context looks like Anet is too, how long before it dies this time?

Bhawb.7408:

Jax.5261:

And on the same day League only broke 350,000 viewers at once (maybe more I didn’t watch for that long).
So GW2 is behind in Twitch viewers by 348,000 in the best case scenario from above.
How many players even play tournament pvp in GW2 anymore? A couple of thousand ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM so comparing people interest or who play GW2 tpvp to the people watching one League tournament yesterday the difference is around 340,000 people (giving gw2 the best numbers you could hope for).

Are we ESports yet guys?

Not really fair comparing a game with the largest playerbase (they have more people playing every day concurrently than GW2 has games sold) to GW2, especially with how GW2 is split. Also, that was ESL, essentially nothing as far as prizes, compared to a tournament where the winners will get $1mil.

So no, we don’t compare yet to the single largest eSport in the world, not very surprising.

True, ok then, lets compare with Vain Glory and freaking MOBILE game, 4k views. Uh oh.

Vain Glory the mobile moba game has 4k views for it’s competition too…

ProtoGunner.4953:

MMOs is all about long term goals. Also guild halls isn’t the biggest feature, it’s the raids, the masteries and the new specs.

The expansion is out for about 2 months… My experience from complainers is as follows: new releas/feature, crybabies everywhere 6-8 months later: ’THERE’S NOTHING TO DOOOOOO.’

Oh and about black desert; goes down the same road with every single korea grinder and other stuff people were talking about. 1-3 months into it and it’s going back to niche. Remember Wildstar, Archeage etc.? You see people even talking about?

If that’s the case, we should just let Anet turn the numbers right up, need 250 of something? Sod it make it 2500, long term goals for all!

True, no one talks about Wildstar, it’s a shame it decided it would focus on hardcore and turn the difficulty up… uh oh…

It’s weird you think there needs to be some sort of trade off when it comes to nerfs. They nerf us regardless, don’t think the damage is safe just because it has less HP. It will take only one dev getting rekt by it to have it nerfed into the ground like the rest of our toys.

Notsoperky.2348:

Sicarius.4639:

Going by yesterdays stream, they lost about 2k viewership over the first week of ESL Pro Leagues.

No doubt that will be a ‘temporary blip’ ‘timing’ ‘other events were on at same time’ blah blah blah.

I tried watching one of the those streams with the commentary and had to turn off the commentary after a couple of minutes as they sounded like over excited kids on speed- totally ruined the viewing. Then watching something where half the build is hidden and a lot of time is spent standing on a spot…it’s not exactly riveting viewing.

Well looks like their PvP has to deal with the new competition now, Vain Glory is causing quite the stir, picking up 4k views for their Mobile moba. Was interesting to watch the bottom of the screen which had 10 guys sitting their on their mobile devices at a desk, will be interesting to see how the numbers battle it out over the next few weeks.

Morwath.9817:

tl;dr version please?

If you don’t have the expansion and want to be competitive, buy it.

It hasn’t changed anyone, people are exactly the same it’s the content that has allowed them to show their behaviour under those situations.

We think we’re so nice to each other, helping etc, there is literally no competition for anything and the game was built to assist us in being “good”.

We haven’t changed, the content and systems have.

Coulter.2315:

Palador.2170:

Here’s the link for those interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding_

Now, that is indeed what it used to mean, back in the day. Back when that’s how the problem manifested, in those older games.

The definition doesn’t match my point so I’m off to change it blah blah blah.

The only grind in HoT is the stuff you made yourself do, I got all the necessary Masteries without repeating a SINGLE event.

I’m interested to know if you can acquire all masteries without repetition, if not, how much is required to fulfil the mastery trees?

http://uk.ign.com/videos/2015/12/03/2016-the-year-of-esports-extended-discussion

Just felt this was very much on topic, talking about Esports in 2016, who is doing what and how Esports scenes are made.

Shen Slayer.3058:

What’s the definition of 1.5 mil monthly actives? Logging in for 2 minutes once a month?

Yes.

UnbentMars.9126:

Sicarius.4639:

DoctorDing.5890:

(Hands up anyone who thinks that this GW forum gives a true representation of player sentiment as a whole…)

Well given we went from 5m sold to 1.5m monthly actives, then I’d say the last few disgruntled players who wish the game wasn’t going this way are a fair representation as 3.5m buyers left.

We’ve seen the numbers doubled thanks to F2P, maybe those people are Anet’s next target audience.

Where are you getting those numbers?

Here: http://fortune.com/2015/11/24/areanet-investing-in-esports/?xid=soc_socialflow_twitter_FORTUNE

“Guild Wars 2 has proven pretty resilient historically, with about 1.5 million monthly actives,” SuperData Research CEO Joost van Dreunen says. “Since it switched to free-to-play in late August, Guild Wars 2’s monthly active user base has doubled to 3.1 million (October 2015)."

Nauticus.5769:

I would like to see also open world content, which encourages the use of any other gear except zerker.

Right after they introduce a working builds system.

Vayne.8563:

Sicarius.4639:

Which MMO was that? I’m actually looking for something a bit more structured than H1Z1 or DayZ.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undead_Labs

Oh, that wasn’t an MMO, State of Decay was actually a nice zombie game.

I know they would like to produce one, but I also understand that they are funded by Microsoft now? So whether or not they’ll be able to take that risk I’m not sure.

DoctorDing.5890:

(Hands up anyone who thinks that this GW forum gives a true representation of player sentiment as a whole…)

Well given we went from 5m sold to 1.5m monthly actives, then I’d say the last few disgruntled players who wish the game wasn’t going this way are a fair representation as 3.5m buyers left.

We’ve seen the numbers doubled thanks to F2P, maybe those people are Anet’s next target audience.

Funnily enough WoW’s Arenas deemed an utter failure in placing itself as an Esport had 2-3 times the amount of views GW2 got for their Pro Leagues.

Due to the negative response around water combat and the removal of the PvP map with it, I don’t foresee Anet taking the risk of an expansion around the Deep Sea Dragon after the way HoT was received (mixed at best).

Loli Ruri.8307:

nexxe.7081:

LovelyVirus.9432:

Fist thing they must listen is : Stop trying to make this game become an E-Sport like MOBA . This is MMORPG . Focus on WvW , contents , storyline , event , …. Those are strengths of their game .

MMOs are dying rapidly. Even WoW is dying. It’s down to 3 million now (in one quarter!). MOBAs and Esports is where the money is currently, but even that is dying now too.

I don’t believe either is dying. It’s just that the market is now much more widespread. A kiddy pool turned into an olympic swimming pool, and then expanded out into the Pacific Ocean. There are just not enough players to fill all those games. Saying it’s dying because WoW has only 3 million now, or because e-sports was the latest craze, is not proof of anything.

I thought it was 5.6m last count? Losing 1.5m (GW2’s current active paid playerbase) from the last count and losing 4.4m from Q4 2014. They’ve got the biggest fan service of an expansion coming next year and they’ve lost more people since Q4 2014 then GW2 (F2P) currently has, so they’re pretty safe.

Although they said they wouldn’t talk in sub numbers anymore so will be hard to judge what’s going on when the expansion hits.

Animism.6849:

It’s quite simple.

If you were bored before due to tedious world events, the positives such as a few interesting game mechanics in masteries won’t change that. Raid is mediocre so far, rewards are bad.

The story is a big improvement, albeit short.

That’s because they couldn’t space it out every two weeks like intended but give it to us in one lump of an expansion.

Don’t bite the hand…

Substance E.4852:

Sicarius.4639:

Are there any builds that can spam blind quicker than 4s? Just thinking about “balance”.

(Any class)

You can’t even spam it on cooldown in most situations anyway.

Players move around too much and birds have such low life pools that they either die or get swapped out frequently when a lot of aoe’s get thrown around.

Like I said above, there is no “balance issue”. Rangers were nearly non-existent in serious pvp prior to the druid while having months and months of the old GFtE.

I was asking more about other classes, my friend mentioned Thieves have (maybe had) something similar that may be a perma-blind build although he doesn’t run Thief very often and was wondering if anyone had more info on similar builds. Would be a bit of a kick in the proverbial chestnuts if this was the case.

WarMacheen.7124:

Probably be reintroduced as a visual pack on the TP

You’re hired!

Hence why people work hard all day to relax and not do the same in their spare time.