we should start with 100% LF.
this is our only defensive tool.
we got nothing else.
and that is also how we were designed.so 100% LF is only fair.
we don’t ask other classes to start with less blocks or less invulnerability or less vigor or less protection or shorter duration immunities etc.SO PLEASE DON’T ASK US TO START WITH LESS Lifeforce. IT IS OUR DEFENSE!
we dont have invulnerability
we dont have stability
we dont have block
we dont have blind
we dont have blink
we dont have invis
we dont have immune physical damage
we dont have immune condi damage
we dont have leaps
we dont have teleports
we dont have grabs
we dont have vigor
we dont have evades
we dont have protection
We have some of these things. They need refining but we have them.
Also 100% would be to much to start at. I honestly think we should start at 10 or 20%. No point in being locked out of the class mechanic which entirely holds us back.
Greatsword isn’t even that slow compared to the rest of our profession. Gravedigger is, but the rest is no slower than the rest of what we’re used to dealing with.
Agreed
Its auto attack is about as fast as warrior hammer.
Gravedigger has a total cast time of about 1.8s including after cast but has a purpose of being aoe backstab spam.
Nightfall casts as fast as mesmer Gs #3
Reapers grasp cast as fast as guard GS #5
Death Spirals 1s we are already used to.
Lf wise as a reaper you never have to worry as you generate enough lf. Far more than currently at its best potential.
You can mitigate almost all of supply crate, mostly depends on which direction you dodge in and when you avoid the stun or not. Matters not because comparing one skill to another without the whole kit considered is a bit pointless. Apples and oranges.
Again , Cttb, its still overloaded and anet is being careful with chill considering how powerful the condition can potentially be. Its hard to tell because no real builds at the moment put out enough chill constantly to feel its effects for too long. But it triples skill cooldowns while under its effects. I wouldnt agree with a 1s cast time rather 1.25s same as spinal shivers.
Well you can also mitigate the effects of CttB so i dont really understand you point…
And i think 1.25 second casttime would still be bad like it is with spinal shivers but i would be fine if they removed some of the things CttB gives.
I never said you couldnt i said you could with supply crate. Talking about something totally different that was missed as you didnt include the post i quoted in your post.
It wouldnt be bad as it is with spinal shivers as the skill is far more potent. Spinal shivers should have a lower cast time as it is but thats a different topic.
Dagger and GS dont really compete. They are functionally very different, they just both do power damage.
Sad to say but Rev is going to outperform Reaper.
Glad to see you have played the final versions of both of these classes exensivly enough to make that call future dweller..
Greatsword isn’t even that slow compared to the rest of our profession. Gravedigger is, but the rest is no slower than the rest of what we’re used to dealing with.
Agreed
Its auto attack is about as fast as warrior hammer.
Gravedigger has a total cast time of about 1.8s including after cast but has a purpose of being aoe backstab spam.
Nightfall casts as fast as mesmer Gs #3
Reapers grasp cast as fast as guard GS #5
Death Spirals 1s we are already used to.
You can mitigate almost all of supply crate, mostly depends on which direction you dodge in and when you avoid the stun or not. Matters not because comparing one skill to another without the whole kit considered is a bit pointless. Apples and oranges.
Again , Cttb, its still overloaded and anet is being careful with chill considering how powerful the condition can potentially be. Its hard to tell because no real builds at the moment put out enough chill constantly to feel its effects for too long. But it triples skill cooldowns while under its effects. I wouldnt agree with a 1s cast time rather 1.25s same as spinal shivers.
It does 4 things. Chill, stun, damage and grants stab. I would rather them remove some of the functionality and have it cast a little faster.
Anet would class this skill as “powerful” or “very strong” because it does 4 things.
Most of our skills will long cast times have long cast times since they seem to think this balances out the skill being functionally overloaded. You can already see this on axe #3 and focus #5.
it’s people like you who think that Reaper can even exist in a world with professions like Mesmer and Thief who can interrupt us at will and reset a fight if they are partially afk and we somehow able to get some damage skills off. just go and see what Helseth did to Leeto on Youtube the other day and tell me just how the kitten Reaper and our shouts will ever deter that and that’s excluding the Mesmer Chronomancer Spec. face it, we are kittened and pretending like we are good is NOT going to help us one bit.
When you manage to unlodge your head from your kitten let me know. Reaper isn’t any slower than other builds on other professions which have been viable, and Reaper actually has pretty good options to deal with mobile builds, as well as deal with CC. So long as they address some of the Shout cast times, which I have been pretty vocal I’m not optimistic about, we’ll be fine.
See i kept saying this but i got called things for seeing this in the reaper :/
The only true thing you have said is the burn damage from before patch :/ Condition removals are still there. Before patch what? You could do 1k a tick at a push but you cant load burns but nor cant you just fire them and leave them because of how much condition removal is in the game over time you end up doing less damage before than being able to front load say an easy 5 burns ( Zfire, Zflame and passive ) and do the 6k damage instead of doing maybe 1 or 2k to them have it removed and no no more.
Not only can you stack it to do more damage per tick then before consistently but you can also front load it and get a load of damage upfront and not give people a whole load of time to casually remove it.
No matter how its looked at burn is strong now than before patch. Saying burn before was stronger is an extremely false statement. No two ways. Only way it was better before patch is when it was returned to you you didnt condi spike yourself.
“and might has always buffed condi damage…. before and after patch.”
My quote was about vulnerability not might :/ Before patch vulnerability didnt.
befroe patch your burns would tick 1k, 1k, 1k 1k and it would still get cleansed with 5s on it so 5s wasted damage.
after patch you can tick 1.2k, 2,k, 3k, 2k, and these stacks are always falling off and going on so less burn goes to wasted opposed to before patch.
in essence before patch to do 9k damage with burns it would take 9s. after patch it can take anywhere from 3~6s for example depending on a few things.
there is no legitimate way you are correct from a mathematical standpoint. Burn after patch mathematically will do more damage than before. The only way it wont is if you are constantly spamming someone will 1 stack after 1 stack has fallen off.
You can refute this point all you want but you will always be incorrect :/ the one who is incorrigible is you not us. Unless you dont know how to stack burns fast enough to burst burn for huge damage :/
It all depends but its possible to get around 5.6k damage aoe burn from dhuumfire along with the chill damage and a few poisons, bleed and fear damage. pve of course.
Id say the necro one comes close to the being ok like the warriors, i mean it does daze/interrupt apart from that, not much more.
Until you play necro for ages you really dont feel how valuable warhorn #5 is.
I was also hoping for sword, but warhorn goes better with the Tempest name than sword does. Oh well, hopefully it’ll be a neat specialization.
Yeah as much as I wanted a sword, have to admit that thematically the warhorn fits better. Just hope it isn’t yet more bunker/support skills with insanely disproportionate cooldowns, we have enough of that crap already.
you can say that again
because tempest is a storm and the warhorn is a storm caller?
The way i am looking at it is
- you can cover it will stability
- can chain it with other skills to make it land
- can be made unblockable
- a chilled target, even with swiftness, will not be able to escape the 600 radius. Because of this you can force evades, skill usage or force an engage to attempt to counter it cast. Not sure if you can cancel its cast to bait as well.
It can do with some changes but even as it stands I cant view it as entirely useless. Plus the skill does 4 things. Chill, damage,stab,stun.
Its like the most obvious skill ever. Even with major setup they are going to dodge it without fail And considering the damage and stun duration it is not worth casting with that cast time. It is entirely useless.
If you want to disable someone why would you use CttB when you can use warhorn.
Im just going to disagree because i see value in it.
Anet also said classes that just get an offhand also get something else with their spec to make it cool as well.
If you dont like warhorn for its looks fair enough but just assuming the weapon is going to suck before knowing anything about the spec or its skills is a bit….yeah…just going to wait till friday to see if this is something which can be good instead of being whiny about it.
Really not impressed by something that will in the many puns that are now going around “blow”, I know myself as an ele player and many other ele players, that sword would have been much more appreciated for the class and would have complemented it more as the reason being that the legendary sword would have looked nice on an ele. But yea meh warhorn I really don’t see the value or niche of a warhorn atleast I know one elite spec I won’t be using.
You have no idea what the skills are, the change to the class mechanic or anything besides the weapon type and you have made a judgement saying you dont see its value or anything and it blows? welll…ok…
The way i am looking at it is
- you can cover it will stability
- can chain it with other skills to make it land
- can be made unblockable
- a chilled target, even with swiftness, will not be able to escape the 600 radius. Because of this you can force evades, skill usage or force an engage to attempt to counter it cast. Not sure if you can cancel its cast to bait as well.
It can do with some changes but even as it stands I cant view it as entirely useless. Plus the skill does 4 things. Chill, damage,stab,stun.
Imho its OK as is maybe a slightly shorter cast time but not by much. Cttb doesn’t lock you out of most of your skills for the next few seconds like jade winds. You can cover its cast time with stability easily enough as well. It does damage , chills that synergize with reapers set, and grants up to 10 stacks of stab for 10s, enough to get back into shroud of not be stopped for a while. Only suffers from blind spam.
Hopefully like other skills and stuff it should ignore los and if it does that would also be cool.
It won’t adjust until you gain or use lf. It’s still affected by vit..
there wouldnt be any point trying to run that build as condi as a reaper because of the lack of dhuumfire. iirc the trait grants you +300 toughness so anything that works from modified toughness gets changed, including deathly strength.
Also toughness has no established cap iirc because of how damage is calculated i just has diminished returns thus becomes less effective than putting stats else where eventually.
The reason condi reaper would need dhuumfire is because of the lack of other conditions when in the form as well as with balthazar runes and sigil of smouldering you can ramp up around 4.5k aoe burning.
(edited by Sigmoid.7082)
Condi reaper, no dhuumfire?
Soul reaping probably better than deathmagic because of its better traits for shrouded abilities and losing 2% less shroud a second > 300 toughness + -20% condi damage especially since its % based and you stacked a load of vit.
They get 7%, 7%, 20% (devastation and invocation) and 3% per self condi.
didnt see the 7% in invocation. Assuming str runes they can reach 207% damage by themselves with 5 conditions on them and fury. We can get a measly 174%. We really lack mods :/ Axe trait really needs to be universal or reapers need a damage mod trait.
(edited by Sigmoid.7082)
What about runes though? Runes with power could throw those numbers off. Using fire procs would be unreliable as well. Im going to wait till the next beta before i question the damage.
But if your calculations are close then thats actually pretty reasonable. Its only very slightly higher than dagger (same attack speed). Obviously revenant has slightly more damage modifiers. But thats more of a necro issue than something wrong with revenant.
I cant see how many damage mods they get but i can only see 7% and 20% in devastation line and i cant see any anywhere else that are permanent. They do have Bolstered Anguish but thats only 3% per condi on you. Not very useful in pve where condis are not often and in pvp unless you run sword mallyx but if you lose resistance with all the conditions on you you will suffer. Could be interesting though. Their sword also wont get max effectiveness unless you can land both hits of #1.2. you lose a lot of damage if it misses.
We get 5%, 5% and 20% if you take spite and soul reaping. Unless they change reaper to do extra damage vs chilled targets its fairly even. .
ontopic and regards to axe i believe the following changes will make it a much better weapon:
Base changes
- #1 scaling changed to 0.95
- #2 cast time reduced 1.75, add whirl finisher
- #3 increase scaling to 0.9 , reduce cast time to 0.75
Trait changes
- # Unholy Fervor: add increases range by 300, reduces cooldown by 33%.
- Spiteful Spirit : add unholy feast is now a blast finisher / take reduced damage under retaliation (5%) / retal does extra damage + lasts longer (33%) – any of these because the trait is currently way to weak for a GM
Feel these few and very reasonable changes would actually work well, fix axe and synergise well with what we already have kit wise as well as giving us some “normal” support that the devs are ever so afraid of giving us for whatever reason. It helps all builds we have with finishers. We would suck a lot less if we had way to interact with outselves or other players in general. The class is to selfish.
(edited by Sigmoid.7082)
Erm we have no idea on the actual damage of Revenant sword. It looked rather weak if Roy was using Berserker amulet on the stream.
Unless we know his power on the stream we cannot calculate the coefficients of the skills. Which means damage comparisons are meaningless at this point. I was only able to work our reaper damage from the stream because they showed us the tooltip of a currently existing skill (BiP) so i could estimate the power from that.
He is using marauders. Guess because tevs have hase 15.5k ish HP and he had 21k HP. Only 2 ammies have 560 bit. Cele or marauders. Crit chance also seems to high for cele as well hence my guess.
If you really wanted to you can watch the video, find the sigil of fire procs on the heavy golems. Average the damage and reverse engineer.
edit: by estimating marauders the total coeff if all your auto attack hits land would be 2.95. Or roughly as strong as guard or theif sword autos if all your hits land. Its just faster since its auto chain takes 2.1s instead of 2.5. Its actually much weaker if your targets doesnt sit still for all 2 hits of #1.2
(edited by Sigmoid.7082)
Gain might when using assassins stances (2 stacks). Im not 100% sure but that would mean every attack revenant does while in shiro mode gives might right ?
We get might only on DS auto, not in dagger auto…and blood is power is ridiculous now, self applied bleed lasts longer than the might. all we got is an excellent minor to stack might when enemy is 50% now. Oh and even if you dont have target and do life blasts you stack might, so we can actually prestack with enough life force xD
iirc its on usine assassin stance skills not weapon skills since they are universal regardless of stance. so using shiro stance utilities skills grants might.
If we every got something like this people would qq because they can no longer blind spam to win. but it would solve so many issues with several things and balance things out between why some traits will suck for base necro but be awesome for reaper. lets them be good for both.
This would actually make dhuumfire worth it and give condi builds a reason to use shroud. Would also balance with reaper because the auto is still the same three hits. somehow this makes perfect sense.
3 hits and each orb can ricochet to nearby targets desperately meaning you can do ok area damage but the single target stil takes a big hit. Not sure if they had the tech but would be cool as hell.
not fussed because they cant take it with the +20% damage trait like necro can. From what i see rev still lacks damage mods. Necro also still has a higher life steal potential on it.
What plus 20% damage trait? You mean Close to death? No, revenant has Swift Determination which is the exact same trait. Oh, and aoe Ferocity.
They cant take the life steal GM and the +20% damage GM because they are both exactly that, GM traits. Its either one or the other. My point was necro can take all their siphons as well as their 20% damage trait.
We also dont know if the daggers from the heal can be evaded , blocked,blinded etc as counter play. We know they will have 1200 range so who knows if they are projectiles or not. Overall they wont siphon up as much as i believe a necro will be able to.
(edited by Sigmoid.7082)
not fussed because they cant take it with the +20% damage trait like necro can. From what i see rev still lacks damage mods. Necro also still has a higher life steal potential on it.
Its a decent choice:
Damage/execution
Increased Interruption
Sustain
If signet of the vampire actually stole health when you were hit it would be better.
it also has a flanking requirement.
Reaper won’t even solve anything, it still has the exact same issues. Greatsword won’t ever be meta because of the cast times and that 4/5 skills are melee only. The only thing greatsword has going for it is the AOE pull… which guardian should be used for instead, with his greatsword. You would be gimping yourself by using a necromancer instead of a medi guardian with a greatsword.
Greatsword is our ultimate PvE weapon.
You will
neverrarely get any greatsword auto attacks off on good players. Reaper shroud is a problem too because it’s all melee oriented. Life Transfer is better than that spin-2-win skill because it hits through objects and is ranged. The only thing reaper shroud has going for it is the stability. And maybe the 5th skill as well depending on it’s damage multipliers.However, if the new reaper elite does in fact get stability added to it, then, that actually might help our class a little bit.
There is actually a lot to disagree with with this post. This is just a very limited way at looking at the toolset that reaper as well as greatsword has.
This makes no sense. Make the skill no ICD and make normal Unholy Feast a blast finisher, which applies to this, and would then benefit all builds.
This. It would also make builds who take spectral wall better because you can blast it for chaos armour, give us more blind or retaliation. We really lack finishers.
two of anything more than likely would have killed you anyways so i dont see the point.
Im not bothered by mesmers its just 3 things i would like to see looked at
- mantras recharging in the background. Other skills in the game also did this but they got changed to only recharge once they end and so on. i dont see how this should be any different. It would also prevent the 6 stuns / dazes you can get in one encounter before having to wait.
- confounding suggestions. this needs its ICD synchronized from power lock.
- power block being as rewarding as it is. Almost everything is an action so more often than not you will catch something and put it on a 15s cooldown. 15s i feel is to much maybe 10s.
I would be content if those three got changed and everything else stayed the same.
5. Necro’s too tanky Life (they don’t die even with 3 killshots straight)
as the only class in the game without a skill that either reduces incoming damage to 0/invulnerability or stealth its warranted. stop moaning about it. They are supposed to be high hp and tanky.
i see nothing wrong with axe.
Can we go back to this. Like seriously..
Both warrior and guardian hammer have had places in the meta and they are equally slow weapons. GS will be a perfectly fine weapon. Nobody will be able to everything forever like people think and will also be better cleave in team fights. Its only weakness is its prone to being kited, means rangers,mesmers and theives will be a real issue.
Warrior hammer isn’t that slow of a weapon, and has ample cc so if you land one of the ccs you can get a combo off. Guardian is similar except you can also port in with JI, and several other instants that help offset the slowness. Also, the major damage is from mighty blow which is a full half second faster than gravedigger. All the big damage skills are really easy to avoid on reaper, so, despite the good damage, it will get eaten alive by classes with a lot of dodges, blinds, and blocks. I think they tried to counter this by giving it a pulsing field, but you’ll just bait that then blow them up. Maybe I’m wrong and it will be super strong, but I see no way it will beat mesmers who have all the tools needed to counter reapers (boon removal, interrupts, and ranged damage).
Hammer is no faster than reaper GS. If those two weapons are slow then neither is reaper GS. I think people exagerate exactly how slow and easily avoidable the weapon is. Especially warrior hammer which is just as susceptible to blinds, blocks, invuln. I dont trust cast times on skills because they are deceptive, there is after cast and all sorts. Some animations also last way longer than their cast bar. Take necrotic grasp for instance, has a 0.75 cast time but in reality you only get 1 attack every 1.4s because of after cast and animation.
It all depends on how you look at it. If you look at it as “as another class how can i beat a reaper” opposed to “as a reaper how do i beat another class” you see different things. But by no means is there a 100% chance one will beat the other.
As soon as they fix mantras to cooldown when they end like every other skill then it will be a different story because not having to face 6 stuns will be better for literally everyone.
The way I find with mesmers is to los and force them to burn cooldowns then go in. It’s just dodging the burst that can be a bother but if they miss mirror blade its much better. Also because of their clones it actually makes using signet of leeching much more fun because you can et back around 6k hp with i t at best 1v1 a mesmer.
Also zapv because of its higher target cap and better aoe overall in any situation where you have more than 2 targets GS wins out over dagger.
Both warrior and guardian hammer have had places in the meta and they are equally slow weapons. GS will be a perfectly fine weapon. Nobody will be able to everything forever like people think and will also be better cleave in team fights. Its only weakness is its prone to being kited, means rangers,mesmers and theives will be a real issue.
Im running a similar build but im messing about with death magic. Its not that bad when i take shrouded removal, deathly strength and Corrupter’s Fervor. Nice 2700 armour or 2850 in shroud, decent protection uptime , -20% condi damage.
Shrouded removal also is pretty good. Need more testing but its fun for sure. Certainly less offensive though.
I wouldnt say the GS is so slow that its an issue nor is the pull not being enough. You have to bear in mind on a reaper staff #5 will cause the fear to chill so you wont displace your enemy any at all. Pulling them 600 range actually means they need to take 1~3s to travel that distance again. It also pulls in a cone so can be used to move pretty large and wide spread sets of people. Staff in itself is also a relatively slow weapon, you will get around 2 autos off for every 1 GS chain.
Besides from certain points of view it can be said that GS will be much better than staff because it actually does damage. You are really only missing the condi transfer and the fear, both of which can be replaced because of other weapons and new abilities. Staffs main benefit is range. thats about it. As well as which line to drop to take it.
Well you’re right that greatsword 5 hinders mobility more but when you’re outside the 600 range, you’re safe while with staff you’re not. 600 or higher is a very comfortable range for kiting a foe. You don’t even have to be 600 a bit lower can too due to traveling time) Also the damage you will do iwith greatsword will come from gravedigger mostly so I’m not sure it will work (that’s why I called it slow).
Outside of 600 range with a staff you are extremely safe but you wont put out any pressure at all. Staff #1 can be side stepped and travels very slowly, #2 for kiting does no damage pretty much, only at max 4 stacks of bleed, only #3 is useful for kiting because of the chill on it, #4 does damage but you would want to save it for a transfer and #5 is fear and chill because of how reaper works, again ok for kiting but not for putting out any real damage if we are talking taking cele amulet. The way i see it the only way you would get any real damage from staff is if you took the chill damage trait but then you lose out on lf and healing of blighters boon.
I wouldnt say most of the damage would come from grave digger and using that as a basis to say its slow. The auto has a 2.8 finish time so around the cast time of warrior hammer auto chain, #4 will tick just as hard as a well of suffering. If people waste dodges to avoid being chilled by the auto then thats a win because the chain can be used far more than the time it takes to regain endurance. You have to bear in mind that we have great access to weakness, this means that , without endurance gaining, it takes between 10~20s for enough endurance to dodge. Also that GS skills start at 170 range/cone/area which isnt small when trying to hit stuff.
Staff, for me, will still be a good weapon but i can honestly see myself replacing it with GS because of its damage, better in more situations melee wise and its better use in team fights/on point pressure. Only issue is loss of range in total and which line to drop / what to give up.
I think reaper will be just fine. Mainly because cleave dhuumfire with reaper’s might, unyielding blast, and decimate defenses looks like it could be a strong enough combo to forgo all ranged pressure in a hybrid build.
As long as the life force management is there I think reaper will be really strong. Thats why I really hope that blighter’s boon doesn’t get an ICD added, because that trait with all of the might procs we get from spite (and AoE boons from allies) looks like it’d be enough life force management for the reaper, meaning we wouldn’t need soul marks so we could take up the vuln stacking synergy traits instead. In fact, staff could be forgone for GS as an offset to dag/WH, as you’d only really miss the AoE fear and condi transfer.
I aggree with almost anything life force management will make this succeed or break and hybrid looks likely with this. Staff on the other hand might become mandatory if only because of the range a 600 pull will not be enough and greatsword will be so slow.
I wouldnt say the GS is so slow that its an issue nor is the pull not being enough. You have to bear in mind on a reaper staff #5 will cause the fear to chill so you wont displace your enemy any at all. Pulling them 600 range actually means they need to take 1~3s to travel that distance again. It also pulls in a cone so can be used to move pretty large and wide spread sets of people. Staff in itself is also a relatively slow weapon, you will get around 2 autos off for every 1 GS chain.
Besides from certain points of view it can be said that GS will be much better than staff because it actually does damage. You are really only missing the condi transfer and the fear, both of which can be replaced because of other weapons and new abilities. Staffs main benefit is range. thats about it. As well as which line to drop to take it.
(edited by Sigmoid.7082)
Also think out focus #4 should have the same homing as guardian focus #4 because at the moment its not very reliable at all.
Im just excited to have a decent second weapon set. Can even swap warhorn for something else since the pull is still aoe interrupt.
Axe needs:
- #1 to have damage coeff of 0.9
- #2 to do 7% more damage and be a whirl finisher
- #3 to be a blast finisher.
By making axe better you fix how bad the axe traits are in spite.
You do know some classes have loads of ways to generate flat +% crit chance right so no precision isn’t an issue.