Guild Wars 2

Chronomancer is designed around F5, quickness, slow and alacrity, all of these synergies and reinforces with pretty much anything.
Exception:

• Slow does not work on confusion build, but you don’t need to spec for slow.
• Alacrity does not synergies as good with mantras, but quickness does…

You really can’t go wrong with these effects…

Cylokin.2560:

Atherakhia.4086:

Things to keep in mind though is dagger is still higher DPS than greatsword auto attack. Dagger + Locust does about the same damage as grave digger. So really Reaper isn’t going to be pulling away from base Necro all that well just from doing very quick math.

Perhaps others who are more vested could provide better numbers.

Not sure, but I think Reaper Shroud AA is bigger DPS than Dagger, everyone is mentioning Greatsword, RS AA has much better DPS than GS.

In PvE (i.e. ideal conditions) dagger and GS are better than RS. Below 50% GS > dagger. Above 50%, I don’t think people have calculated the rotation…
In PvP, all the traits favoring shroud means RS > everything.

Bhawb.7408:

Silverkey.2078:

If you look at PvP, while still having a “meta”, you see that the top teams are players, not classes. Many of them have their favorite class and just stick to it, regardless of the meta. Nos for example is playing necro, and while people almost accuse him of being a burden to the team, the fact is that he is still a core member of the best team in NA, because he is a good player. (On that subject, if you look at the twitchcon, I absolutely hate how Grouch and Hugh Norfolk kept insulting him during the stronghold match).

Nos being able to play Necro on the top NA team means very little. A lot of top players would say the same thing, Nos holds his team back by playing an underpowered profession, but his team cohesion is probably more important at this point, and GW2 PvP doesn’t have strong enough competition to matter. Look at League pre-LCS and see all the garbage pro players that were allowed to be pros because the competition was comparatively low.

Well that’s exactly my point. The Abjured do not take Nos in their team because he plays a strong class, but because he is a good player and they play well together. And Nos plays necro because he likes it and he’s good at it. So conclusion, in PvP you can have player>class.

Shalien.9018:

Ah snap, I guess the wiki’s outdated.

Was it stacking in intensity too or was it just a modifier change?

No intensity stacking… This is the old burn all over again

I assume there will always been minor updates even while the season is going. But the big reworks will be kept between leagues.

What I wonder is how long before they start the first season. Because it is clear that the balance right after HoT will be…. interesting let’s say…

Ross Biddle.2367:

Embolism.8106:

To bunker doesn’t mean to sit on a point all round, a good bunker should be a strong presence in team fights. This is especially true for Guardian bunkers but even Mesmer bunkers have a lot to offer to the team.

The major weakness of the traditional bunker guard is a lack of mobility: it takes them time to rotate and mobile professions like Thieves can easily outmaneuver them. A Mesmer bunker with Portal on the other hand can rotate very rapidly, allowing it to participate in team fights while protecting the home point at the same time.

So make a less optimal bunker for more mobility. Instead of letting your teammates fill up roles. While viable, I’m not seeing the necessity.

Just play a 5-mesmer teams, and this way, no problem with the portals

Cogbyrn.7283:

Also, it seems people are approaching PvE balance on the forums from the “bring the class, not the player” perspective. My personal hope is that ANet is trying to balance based on “bring the player, not the class”. However, that road ends at homogenization, so you have to strike a careful balance. With a lot of the unique types of things various classes can bring to the table, they’re a pretty long ways out from homogenization, but it also means that compositionists (that’s a word now, because “composers” didn’t feel right) are studying what classes to bring. They’re hamstrung even in the Damage category, because meters do not provide them with the evidence that their Necromancer, who theoretically does less damage, is outperforming their Engineer, who theoretically does more. In this instance, the Necromancer player is potentially filling his/her role better, but all people know is that the Engineer can do more damage. The blessing and curse of meters.

I’m not entirely sure how you create a culture that values a player over a class. I don’t think it ever happens in an ideal sense, but I think you have to start with each class having an overlap of viability across a unique set of desired qualities. If a Necro/Reaper is something along the lines of Damage/AoE Damage/Boon Strip/Healing (ignoring soft CC condition application for the moment), is that something a compositionist could make use of and feel good about? I’m not talking about the weeds of “X does Damage better, Y does Boon Strip better, and Z does Healing better”, I’m talking about the big picture, where you don’t need X and Y and Z, because you have a Necro. I’ll admit that ANet has a struggle ahead though for PvE balance, because when you bring 10 people, compositionists are going to minimize the necessary support/control, and maximize on damage. Depending on how well certain classes fill those support/control niches, versatility may not matter, depending on encounter design.

And I’m still curious to hear what people think the metric defining “high” end PvE is going to be, because I think it’s important to know how you’re measuring success before evaluating whether or not Reapers will have a place helping groups achieve that success. I know for a fact it isn’t just completing content, because the current Necromancer can do that, and people have already touted the “No Necromancer/Ranger” community of today’s PvE.

If you look at PvP, while still having a “meta”, you see that the top teams are players, not classes. Many of them have their favorite class and just stick to it, regardless of the meta. Nos for example is playing necro, and while people almost accuse him of being a burden to the team, the fact is that he is still a core member of the best team in NA, because he is a good player. (On that subject, if you look at the twitchcon, I absolutely hate how Grouch and Hugh Norfolk kept insulting him during the stronghold match).

The sole reason why the PvE community got so toxic is that the content is doable by anyone who knows reasonably the dungeon. The goal is just to do the content as fast as possible to maximize the income. The dungeons are basically not fun-driven but reward-driven.

From what I can see, currently raids reward coordination more than the choice of class. So the problems may be less. Also, since you will most likely play with regular friends and not PUG, the chances of being bullied for being a necro are minimal… or change your friends.

I think the wiki data is still from BWE1. Now it is the double. It definitely ticked for 700-800.

Shalien.9018:

I think Reaper would have a much stronger place in a raid comp if they can have a strong condi that was prof specific.

I don’t see why it would. Deathly chill does increase the condi output of reaper, but the fact that it is a “unique” condi does not make it more viable. Now that there is no condi cap, the condi variety does not matter, what matters is the final damage.

Now chill can be useful for its debuff potential (CD increase + movement speed). For example in the raid boss we currently saw, chill can probably help a bit with the moving orbs by slowing them. But a plain knock back does a better job…

Nike.2631:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

The best healing in the game being available without using any healing power; this is not good for the game.

You need to apply that particular mind-set to EVERY HEAL IN THE GAME.

The absolutely awful healing power coefficients on every heal skill has been a huge leg holding up the stool that is the ‘Zerker meta and it’s needed to be kicked out from under that chair since launch. For most self-heals heal power is meaningless. And I don’t use that word lightly. Its worse than meaningless actually, because those points could be put somewhere — ANYWHERE — else and contribute more to your impact in play.

Reduce level contributions to heals slightly. -5% would be felt. -10% would be glorious. Increased heal power coefficients to replace that loss at some modest number and allow healing power focused builds to actually reap some sort of benefit. You’ve done it with conditions recently to punish people without any commitment to condition damage. Its a mystery why a similar pass hasn’t already been done for healing power…

This! Most of the possible support does not require any stats, so at least make healing power valuable.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Embolism.8106:

I’d rather they don’t nerf the core Mesmer for the sake of the Chronomancer. Keep Chronomancer fixes to the Chronomancer please.

To be fair, Persistence of Memory is a very poor trait for core Mesmer, even as it is. Maybe this would be an opportunity to bring something else in.
Cut the effect down to 1s off, but add something else in that doesn’t interact oddly with Chronophantasma. Assuming it’s even a problem, of course

The way I see it… Persistence of memory was added BECAUSE of CP. The idea was that both together should allow shatters in phantasm builds.
The only place where I see it being (maybe) OP is with the shield block because that is a “phantasm” skill that is almost more valuable for its side effect than its phantasm.

Dondagora.9645:

I feel like Mistrust should get 4 stacks, though. It’s a GM, shouldn’t it be defining our build?

My main problem with mistrust: you interrupt a foe, he gets confusion… but it does not proc because he is dazed.

I really wish mistrust would be: “reduce duration of daze to 0.25s. Dazed enemies are blinded (maybe also weakened). Inflict 4 (for example) stacks confusion to interrupted enemies.”
The perfect example of high risk high reward + you don’t prevent confusion to proc.

Embolism.8106:

Silverkey.2078:

Ok you win :p

Where’s my prize?

My eternal respect?

Well let’s have some respect for the developers reading this thread and back on subject with constructive feedbacks hmm hmm… Yep chronomancer rocks!

Main mesmer, female Norn: Ljusa Dunkel (Ljus = light and Dunkel=dark in swedish)
Beta mesmer, male charr: Phantasmal Kitty
Alt account, male sylvari: Seeds of Chaos

Embolism.8106:

Silverkey.2078:

Well to be fair the only class which can grant slow is mesmer on time warp. The rest is only by corruption/transfer.

The Daredevil and Druid also has access to Slow.

Ok you win :p

Embolism.8106:

Silverkey.2078:

That is a weak argument honestly. I could say “slow is core to chronomancy, you should not be able to build a chronomancer without slow” and I would not be more right or wrong than you are. I like alacrity, I just think we have too much of it too easily (maybe I am the only one to think this way).

You would be much more wrong than I am because Chronomancy is the only way to gain Alacrity in the entire game, and a lot of balancing seems to be done with Alacrity in mind. Slow on the other hand is available to a lot of professions including the base Mesmer, and it has no where near the impact of Alacrity to the entire profession.

Well to be fair the only class which can grant slow is mesmer on time warp. The rest is only by corruption/transfer.

I do believe we have too much personal Alacrity too easily, hence why I’m for the removal of Improved Alacrity. Take that away and I think it will be much harder to maintain excessive personal Alacrity without wasting your Shatters.

Well we agree on the problem, we just have different solutions to it, but I am very fine with your solution. Also, on a philosophical level, a trait which just increases the duration of an effect is a boring trait while alacrity sharing is fun. I do wonder though if the reason they didn’t do that is that they didn’t want 1 mesmer to provide alacrity to everyone around. That is why IA only affects the alacrity on yourself and not party-wide alacrity. But already after BWE1 I suggested to change improved alacrity to shared alacrity.

Charblaze.6958:

Silverkey.2078:

I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but the world first did include a reaper. However, that does not mean it was needed, but at least it works

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3nipnp/world_first_vale_guardian_kill/

Group comp, 4 Condi Engi (1 tankier hybrid, which was me), 3 Revenants, 1 Druid, 1 Chronomancer, 1 Warrior. Everyone was in Berserker, except the Condi Engis of course. I don’t think the Berserker meta is quite over with yet.

OOOh, I must have confused with this one
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/LOD-Vale-Guardian-Down/first

Bhawb.7408:

Silverkey.2078:

I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but the world first did include a reaper. However, that does not mean it was needed, but at least it works

Worth noting that the world first really had less to do with the best group to do it and far more to do with the first people to organize well enough.

Quite agree with this, which is why I added the second sentence.

Atherakhia.4086:

From what I hear the raids were disabled for all of a few hours to begin with and the encounter was defeated. If this is true, I’d be more concerned with the encounter just being SIGNIFICANTLY undertuned.

Raids were reactivated yesterday and available up to the end of the BWE (in 30min). While they did require coordination, there didn’t seem to be anything “difficult” as such. Most of the groups were full offensive (berserker/sinister stats) with usually very few supporty gears and builds. The problem is that because of the timer, most of the comp needs to deal very high damage. On the other hand, with some coordination, there is little damage you cannot avoid.

The main difference is that “control” was very important (to control the dangerous orbs flying around and break the break bars) and that the amount of HP was very high so “sustained” damage definitely is more relevant than burst. There was also some important but limited boons tripping need, so most classes can deal with it (which makes sense since they clearly said all professions should be able to do it). Also, so far most teams had 1 tank to take aggro. Considering that necro can wear tankier gears while still having 100% crit chance, maybe necro works well in this role.

Enough to grant a spot for reaper? maybe, but not sure.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Silverkey.2078:

I think perma alacrity should not come without significant efforts.

You can’t get permanent alacrity by spamming shatters without illusions, even with Improved Alacrity.

No, but nobody spams shatters without illusion. It does not need investment because mesmers usually try to get their F1 or F2 with illusions, so the alacrity comes for free on top of what mesmers already did. When I played, I didn’t focus on alacrity, I was just playing my game, and it just happens I got very high alacrity uptime.

Silverkey.2078:

I know it is too strong, everyone knows it.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Everyone knows that it’s strong.
Only some people, like you, think that it’s too strong.
But most of the elite specs are strong!
Revenant continues to mop the floor with base classes, by the numbers (and the cc)!
You appear to be viewing this from the a telescopic focus on Chrono, but the context is that chronomancer is sitting on the level that Anet appears to want for elite specs!

I think many other elite specs (or sword revenant) also need to be tuned down. I just played mesmer more so that is the one I have an opinion on what can be tuned down.

Silverkey.2078:

I would rather the nerfs hit the right spot and only prevent the burst roamer build to be too strong while keeping the team fight-bunker in a right spot. I want balance and build diversity.

Increased dps is not a problem. The burst roamer build gets more dangerous by increasing the burst, not by increasing the dps. Alacrity contributes absolutely nothing to the instantaneous burst.

The burst roamer does not finish its victims in one burst (not anymore at least). So having the next F1 on a 6-8s CD instead of 10-12 makes a big difference. Also, the roamer trades it superiority in small fights for difficulties in big fights. That is the balance. Now you can get both. Balance lost.

If you look at the changes I suggest, there is nothing extreme. Because I think chrono is not broken OP, it’s just a bit too much. I do not nerf with a hammer like a-net usually does.

Embolism.8106:

With regards to Alacrity, Flow of Time should definitely not become a Major. Alacrity is as core to Chronomancy as Continuum Split (I’d argue more so), it should not be possible to build a Chronomancer without Alacrity.

That is a weak argument honestly. I could say “slow is core to chronomancy, you should not be able to build a chronomancer without slow” and I would not be more right or wrong than you are. I like alacrity, I just think we have too much of it too easily (maybe I am the only one to think this way).

Improved Alacrity however is excessive. Flow of Time gives all the self-Alacrity we need, and if you want more Illusionary Reversion should be the trait to go with (ATM IA seems to be taken over IR most of the time).

I’d like to see IA replaced, perhaps with another Alacrity-sharing trait so we’re not so reliant on Wells. Say 50% of Alacrity you gain is shared with allies, and AWTEW becomes “Wells grant 1s Alacrity and 2.5s Protection to allies when they end”. This isn’t an entirely altruistic trait either, remember Phantasms also benefit from Alacrity if there are no allies to share it with.

I’m in principle fine with this. I just think the PvE community won’t be.

I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but the world first did include a reaper. However, that does not mean it was needed, but at least it works

… and you can do mind wrack every 6s…

So, my full opinion on chronomancer (PvP mostly). First things first: I love the theme and the gameplay. It is a lot of fun and feels very unique.

The specialization opens a role that was somewhat weak in core mesmer: team fights. Because of its core mechanics, with illusions dying fast in a team fight and shatters offering spike damage but no sustain damage, core mesmer shines in duel and small fights where it can burst down an opponent faster than most classes. But in team fights, its damage potential is quite reduced and its survivability is low.
Chronomancer manages to compensate for the weakness in team fights thanks to strong defensive tools, unique support and new AOE abilities. I have been playing, like many others, bunker builds with great success, being very survivable and very supporty at the same time.

The problem I believe is that chronomancer also manages to reinforce mesmer in its usual role (burst roamer). The combination of CP and alacrity (not to forget F5) allows for a very high shatter cadence, allowing more frequent bursts. And at the same time, there is no loss of survivability thanks to the shields and wells, and even some added team support. In summary, chronomancer can now be stronger in duels AND stronger in group fights than current mesmer WITH THE SAME BUILD. Therefore, I know people won’t like it, but I think a few things need to be nerfed.

More specifics on each skill/trait:

• shield: the shield is really a great weapon. The channeling block is really nice. However, comparing to other shields, the ability to double block + get a phantasm out of it is too strong. I believe the block should be reduced to 1.75s to be more in line with other professions (it would be 3.5s of block in 30s CD, compared to warrior 3s block on 25s CD, on the + side we get a phantasm, on the – side, if we block nothing we get only 1.75s block).
• wells: most of the wells are in a very good spot right now. Well of recall still feels a bit outshined right now considering how much alacrity we get from the trait, maybe a CD reduction would make sense but that depends on how alacrity evolves. Well of Precognition may be a bit too good, it feels like its CD is a tad too short, but this may be because of all the alacrity we get.
• continuum split: still very strong but I am not sure I would change anything because it has counterplay and is not that easy to use right. Maybe prevent shatters from happening during the split to avoid megabursts.
• Alacrity: I will be honest, I think alacrity is way too strong right now. The effect is good (I would not nerf the CD reduction on it), but I think we get it too easily. I think Flow of Time is just too good. I would change it to not proc without illusion up (while I would change seize the moment to proc with IP) or I would move it to a major trait to make sure it does not come for free. I think perma alacrity should not come without significant efforts. Having this trait as a GM would allow to have a well defined “slow line” (Delayed Reactions, Danger Time, Lost Time) and “alacrity line” (All’s Well that Ends Well, Improved Alacrity, Flow of Time). Seize The Moment could be the minor instead (quickness does not add much to the mesmer burst, so it is safer).

Really, I know people will hate me for suggesting nerfs, but it is simply that I love chronomancer but I know it is too strong, everyone knows it. I would rather the nerfs hit the right spot and only prevent the burst roamer build to be too strong while keeping the team fight-bunker in a right spot. I want balance and build diversity.

Xstein.2187:

Ya, but as of right now

Reaper > Necromancer
Chronomancer > Mesmer
Daredevil > Thief (I have a friend who has never lost a duel with his d/d daredevil build and can confirm this)
Revenant > Many, if not all of the current classes in the game right now.
Scrapper > Engineer

Druid is also potentially better than ranger. However, I have not played or heard enough about it to really know. The only specializations that don’t shine through are dragon hunter, tempest, and possibly berserker. However, gunflame, even if it is bugged right now, may still be pretty powerful in the hands of a berserker.

There is probably going to be even more complaining after HoT launch because even if these classes are a close as possible to the current classes in terms of power/ability then people would still have a fit because they will say this specialization is meta to this class and that means I am forced to buy the expansion for the game.

I kinda disagree with this:

• Reaper is more polished than core necro, but it trades range for higher melee pressure and better team fighting. So it does not strictly replace core necro, it wins in different situations.
• DD allows builds less stealth-focused to work. It is again a different niche to core thief
• no idea about rev or engi

Because those elite spec fill a different role and trade of their old role, it works fine. Chronomancer also gets a new role (bunkery/team fighter) but also does its old job better. It does not leave a niche for core mesmer.

ODB.6891:

I must be missing something about this power creep / mesmer too strong spam. Its certianly not about the alacrity, since that only makes a significant difference in sustained combat. It can’t be about damage, as we are still not top tier dps. I can only assume this is about continuum shift since that is the only thing that has really changed about our burst…well that and if people are crazy enough to just stand in wells until they complete? If CS is really the issue here…this sounds like a l2p issue…since all you have to do is kill the rift. They have already nerfed chronophantasma and illusionary reversion…what else are people really complaining about? Its not like any of the new especs are weak. What’s so OP about the chronomancer?

I do think alacrity is main guilty. If you compare supcutie’s build ( https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/ATTN-Completely-Broken-Chrono-Build/first#post5562474 ) to the current meta:

• domination and dueling are identical
• Loosing the stealth (torch, decoy, chaos) but keep very survivable thanks to the well of precog and shield. While I love the shield, I think the double block may be a bit too long compared to other blocks in the game. So far I would say both build are even
• the pure gain comes from the chronomancy line. And the line provides alacrity and CP. CP means you have more illusion uptime, but currently, I would argue that the bottleneck of the meta build is not the illusion uptime but the shatter uptime. And that’s where alacrity comes in. The CD of MW is significantly reduced.

Essentially, I would say using chronomancy is like using Chaos (survivability replaced by shield/well) + Illusion (more illusions + shorter shatter CD + some condi clear) together. Oh and even a bit of inspiration (you’re actually supporty thanks to the wells now). So essentially, we finally managed to do the famous 66666 build people have been complaining about for so long.

The “problem” (which I technically think is a great thing) of power shatter is that is really only need 2 lines to work (dom+duel). This means taking chronomancy does not sacrifice anything, but the gain is very significant.

Bumping now that the BWE is coming to an end

Yes, big team fights is where GS shines. It is very good in frontline WvW or mid point PvP or PvE. In other words: where necro is currently bad.

The fact that it is unreliable in 1v1 is what allows it to hit that hard in big fights (for balance reasons).

I think we should just not see plague as a condition elite, but as a support elite. Cover the whole place with your blinds and weakness and your allies are safe. In can be strong in team fights. I do think it can still get a (small) boost. Something about boon corruption would make a lot of sense thematically and isn’t OP for a 180s elite.

Sandrox.9524:

Why is it that every class in the game get way more condi options rather than power?
Look at the reaper, chill converted to condi dmg, while chill is one of the main things about reaper, there is no trait that gives power builds any advntage with chills other than vournability stacking

The reaper got a new weapon dealing exclusively direct damage, shouts dealing damage, a reaper shroud with only one damaging condi skill (RS4). The condi damage on chill is to make sure the reaper is not ONLY for pure damage but can also benefit condi builds. And yes, condi reaper works well (unlike any condi necro).

Which necro build is meta? cele signet. Does cele signet use condi weapons? no. Does cele signet use condi traits like dhuumfire? no. So necro is currently a power meta.

Sandrox.9524:

why the power builds get 3 stats related dmg modifiers and condi only one?

This I agree is a problem. On the other hand, they still don’t deal as much damage as a berserker. Actually, the only meta condition build is burning guard on carrion (i.e. hybrid) or to some extent D/D ele on celestial (also hybrid).

Sandrox.9524:

my main talking point is aobut the reaper, it feels like condi reaper is way way way stronger than the power counterpart and have much more traits emphasis on condi dmg. I feel like you trying to push everyone into the condi meta…

There is literally only 1 condi trait. The chill originally is a mechanics made so that for you to stick to the enemy, so chill traits are designed for the power reaper (using GS).

Sandrox.9524:

I play power necro all the time and did tried codni couple of times with huge success, tho it felt so easy in compare to power play, it is the same with the reaper now, nothing changed and I really hoped that power reapers would be obsolete.

Playing rabid is more forgiving than berserker. No doubt about that. But the best condi build I found for reaper uses carrion amulet and is very bursty and also quite squishy (essentially carrion is as squishy as marauder). It is not “easier” than power, it is just different.

Embolism.8106:

I feel like Improved Alacrity shouldn’t exist. Flow of Time gives Mesmers a lot of Alacrity already, we really don’t need more. I’d like to see it be replaced with another Alacrity-sharing trait and maybe reduce AWTEW’s Alacrity (although then I feel AWTEW might need a bit more…).

Something like, 50% of Alacrity you gain is shared to allies. And AWTEW would be grant 1s Alacrity and Resistance to allies when wells end.

I think the wells are fine, but improved alacrity could be removed and instead having flow of time. We should not have such a powerful tool as a minor. Competing with iRev is definitely a good thing (since iRev allows a lot of shatters).

I used essentially the same, but used well of precog instead of recall and null field instead of portal (I see portal as more fit to the roamer build than the point defender). Also I used seize the moment for more on-demand quickness, but CP makes sense to have more shatters (and more phantasm attacks).

The “fun” (i.e. very strong) thing is that you can chain “echo of memory”, “blurred frenzy”, “déjà vu” and “well of precognition” for a total of 10s invuln without loosing the point.

Just a detail: you do not have any manipulation but are using master of manipulation.

The reason I suggest nerf is because I feel like chronomancer is mostly about shifting from 1v1 to finally feel in the right place in GvG. Everything about it is meant to stand in a big fight: shield to defend yourself, wells as area denial/area support, etc…

The good news is that it works, mesmer seem really good now inside a group. It can both sustain itself and support its allies while still doing damage.

The bad news: this was done while also improving in 1v1 (where we didn’t really need help). So I feel we went from good in 1v1 and bad in 5v5 to good in 5v5 and god mode in 1v1.

And I would be surprised if all the QQ from non-mesmers don’t end up in a nerf. A good nerf should mostly target the chrono 1v1 abilities, not prevent the chrono to be good in 5v5 because else, chrono doesn’t give us anything new.

I think they may have to nerf the alacrity on shatter for PvP or at least change the minor trait to a major so that it does not come for free.

Supcutie, if you think chronomancer is too strong and that it may be nerfed, what exactly do you think is the problem? Alacrity? The wells? the shield?

My personal feeling is that the alacrity on shatter is a bit over the top. Alacrity on well is fine because it needs high investment to get high uptime (most of your right bar), but the alacrity on shatter is stronger (though only personal) and does not need any change except simply using the chronomancy line (I think it is worthy of a GM trait).

Fast impressions:

• Staff is good, but in a support role, it feels weird to have a skill that is mainly single target.
• glyphs: they didn’t seem good enough to persuade me to use them
• building up celestial: as many said: way too easy with staff, a bit too hard without. It rewards healing too much compared to damage.

celestial form:

• it feels that I am just going through all the skills to get max healing and then go back to normal. Most of the skills don’t feel “situational” enough that I want to think about when using them (except that I want to blast after I put the field essentially). I would like if each skill had more personality and maybe not be a healing increase compared to AA.
• the above points is reinforced by the fact that we cannot use a skill and leave the avatar to come back to it later (the celestial energy goes to 0). So we do not switch to it for one situational skill, we switch to it to go through the whole thing. I know changing that will make it too similar to death shroud, but I think it would help.

Then you’re looking cherry picking. Illusionary Persona was made baseline, allowing shatter mesmer to choose their third line more freely (chaos, illusion and inspiration are all valid choices). I believe that is a major +.

And time warp also inflicts slow, which clearly makes up for the “nerf” to quickness. Also quickness is a boon, meaning we can extend its duration.

And anyway, just looking at numbers doesn’t make a build. The fact is mesmer is more than ever in many competitive teams. It is good!

I somewhat agree with tobasco here. I think crusader can be good, but in the build you present especially, with only one source of healing, you only get 700-800 more healing on a 30s CD (less with alacrity). This is probably in part compensated by the added toughness (not against conditions though).

On the other hand, in PvP crusader also has more power than cavalier. I do not feel for doing the maths, but the loss in raw power may end up being very insignificant (if any). So, I think crusader and cavalier may end up performing very similar.

Ok, thanks… I missed that part
I like all the videos, but have a small preference for Guapo because I just liked the fights and Messiah because he uses a different build and shows more team fights which made it more unique. Since I can only vote for one I believe, I will say Messiah

Could you gather all the videos in the competition? I gathered a few links above, but there may be some more.

The weekly butterfly!! We so need a website to put that on (and keep archives)
Actually I think the whole gw2 community should have that. I would love to be able to browse through the archives and see for example the evolution of the PvP meta (I did not play since start, so I missed many interesting meta changes, like how the hell were spirit rangers ever good considering how bad spirits are atm?).

Short question: where do the 5 gold come from? community?

Lily.1935:

Bhawb.7408:

To build on spoj’s point, blast finishers are simply the strongest finisher type in the game. I would also like other types of finishers, but we have nothing to really give us leap finishers on our base profession (Dark Path is the only choice), nor whirl. This leaves projectile and blast, and while I think we should get both, blast finishers are clearly superior in every way in every mode. Note that I primarily play PvP, so when I mention blasts I’m not even talking PvE or pre-buffing. Also blast >>>>> projectile for me, as MM loves the AoE effects of blasts (which further increases the skill cap).

Don’t get me wrong, I think things like Reaper’s Touch should be projectile finishers, but blasts just vastly out perform projectile finishers, and we have a lot of skills to fit blast.

I disagree. I do not feel that blast finishers are the strongest finishers in the game. Leaps have far more self utility and whirls can far exceed them in both offensive and defensive capabilities.

I think the idea is:

• blast: team utility
• leap: selfish utility
• projectile: single enemy damage/debuff
• whirl: AOE damage/debuff
  (note some fields swap the enemy and allies sides)

it is clear that the effects are not necessarily balanced. For example, AOE might is definitely strong, 1s burning on a projectile… not that much.

The nice thing though is that not all fields are better blasted, and in particular the necro’s field. Poison field: 3s weakness is not as good as whirling as a reaper into it and getting many stacks of poison. A 3s blind for blasting a dark field is often barely noticeable, but the leeching bolt (again whirling as a reaper) are potentially good sustain. I would say overall the reaper is balanced in terms of field/finishers. It does not have blast finishers because it does not fit in the “party buff” type but still has many whirl finishers which can be good in its own fields.

The main problem is core necro who has some fields but very few ways to activate them himself.

I don’t know how possible it is, but mimic taking the same CD (or a multiplier) as the skill you mimic could be nice. However, since we currently use it before the skill, it would be weird. Maybe it should be the opposite: activate it after a skill reduces the cooldown of the skill to 1s and mimic starts to recharge with the cooldown of the skill it mimic-ed.

When I was making calculations after the specialization patch, the DPS of rampager/sinister mesmer could be close to (or even higher than) the power mesmer. This was mostly using the bleeds from iDuelist and to a lesser extent iWarden. The weapons were sword-pistol/focus, and the condi damage signet on.
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mesmer_-_Dungeon_Hybrid
Most of the DPS came from phantasms. If you cannot maintain more than 2 phantasms, then scepter main hand was better.

But this was relying heavily on duelist’s discipline which was not working. Now it works but got only 1 stack bleeding, and at the same time, the sword main-hand damage got improved. So I haven’t done any new calculation, but the condi mesmer is probably quite lower than power mesmer.

Also, the condi build is not as good if you need to bring reflects, so it sacrifices some of the main reasons the mesmer is brought in a party.

But if you want casual PvE fun, it certainly works.

It’s green…
My other favorite class is pink…
My third favorite is blue
The others are not nearly as colorful…

That counts right?

Well in PvP, mesmers have actually the best (or one of the best) burst of all professions. Until last tuesday, they also had access to fairly long stealth, allowing it to use fully offensive stats while being able to sustain fairly well (i.e. kiting). And while they do not have the mobility of a thief, they do have top tier mobility. In particular, they have good vertical mobility which is a strong advantage on many maps.

So yes, we do lack build diversity (if you look at competitive tournaments which I recommend, you will see basically everyone using the same build, with maybe a few trading chaos for inspiration, and probably more in the future since stealth was nerfed this week), compared to for example guardian which can play both bunker and burst-burning at a top tier level. But this lack of diversity unfortunately hurts most classes, and mesmer is actually not the worst by far (thief has indeed been destroyed, elementalist while very strong is also forced into a bunkering role, etc…).

Confusion (condi shatter) is still a viable build, and is probably easier for non-top-tier player (like me) because it is somewhat more tanky and thus more forgiving. Some people will tell you it is actually OP, some UP, the only honest answer being that it is a good dueling build but not as good in team fights (though mesmer rarely shines in group). The main reason power shatter is used more often is that it bursts enemies faster, which suits more the role of the mesmer (offensive +1, very potent in duo with a thief).

Portal is a strong asset, on its own justifying using a mesmer in a fight, though it is not as strong in solo queue (since people will rarely take it, so you will use it alone).

scepter-shield/staff
between aegis and blocks, you’re up for a burn feast.

Will condi mesmer finally join the burning party?

On the first (I believe) BWE, the skill coef and cast times were computed and this was the result.

So yes, long gravedigger after cast…

As Ross Biddle says, this voice would be a schizophrenic voice because its brain would not always reach consensus with itself. There are for example recent examples like PU (some liked the nerf, some didn’t), pWarlock (some would like a condi phantasm, some don’t) etc…

That being said, there are also things we are fairly unanimous about (chaotic dampening, harmonious mantra, etc…).

The core of the problem is that this forum is not well suited for “polls”. It is hard to see if there is a (near)-consensus on something. Because of that, the community cannot easily spread its strong messages, diluted into a mess of random blabbering.

Well, this is a “hot fix” reaction. Hopefully, a better design will come after they have more time finding a good solution.

Not too optimistic though.

I think many classes are still suffering from initial poor design decisions specifically on their class mechanics

• Elementalist, which can do everything with its 4 elements. The problem would be easily fixed if most of the potency of each element was conditional to traits (so instead of having different playstyles based on their skills, they have different playstyles based on their traits) but this is currently not the case
• Thief with all its sustain coming from stealth. May change with DD
• Necromancer with its death shroud preventing them from having any scalable defense.
• Ranger with their pets

I feel that we now have very competent developers, but it is hard to fix something which needs a full revamp (basically start from a blank page).

Embolism.8106:

That’s kind of the idea I’m going for here. Phantasms would be balanced around the skill they are tied to (the first attack if you will) and the Shatter effect, and any attacks in-between would be icing rather than the cake.

With regards to invincible, un-Shatterable Phantasms that attack once, seems like it might be simplier to just make the Mesmer do the attack instead?

Yes it is in principle equivalent. The only difference is the theme, keeping a part of the personality we would lose by removing the phantasm as a standalone creature.

Well there was this compromise which I liked to making phantasm a one-time attack. They would not be shatterable, they would simply attack once and disappear (while being otherwise unkillable). This would keep the flavor (you would have one pink version of yourself stabbing your enemy) but with something that can actually be balanced (because you can’t base your balance on them attacking more than once).