Guild Wars 2

Well you kind of went off on a tangent based on bad info about GW2 GvGs. If you show up to participate in a GvG, you better be using an appropriate build and have a team mentality, comparing it to a roamer bursting down a player on their way back to a zerg(I’m taking that is what you meant by “WvWvW needs”) is quite unfair.

1. There are also rules and regulations to even the playing field while having wiggle room for builds, thus group comps, thus playstyle and pre-wardrobe unification/revamps, you could look nice with those expensive skins you’ve worked for.

2. It’s not(10 == (40+(rand(stacks))+(supAC*2)). Everybody is max level and geared and teams have equal numbers. Short of lag and disconnects, if your team loses, it’s because mistakes were made. It’s not WvWvW. See point 1.

3. More open space and more than a handful of people can actually watch the fights.

What you see as a “control freak playing 8 players”, I see as a group people who like fighting together and are striving for precision and excellence as a unit. Some are leaders, some are protectors and some just like seeing HP bars melt. Part of the fun is seeing what their machine can do. Anet wants to do the whole e-sports scene and managed to miss this huge opportunity.

I see.

Well, I honestly hope you will get some space to play what you guys like to play.

As a side note, it is not because you are all max level and with top gear that only skill remain. Depending on what you meant by “wiggle room for builds” unless you all have the exact same builds on both sides there is some level of rock, paper, scissor that may happen. Some build are just better vs others without being overall better. Pick the wrong ones relative to your opponent and you will be significantly handicapped.

That being said, again, best of luck with you guys getting some virtual space that will truly be yours.

Eredon Terrasse?

How about the game being the reward? How about being motivated by not loosing your towers and do your best? If people are only motivated by loot/XP/Karma they may remain in EoTM. I’m thankful for them not crossing over to WvW more. We already have enough of these parasites as it is.

I sometimes wondering if people have slots on the top of their head to insert coins that are spent to make them move around and seek more coins so they can continue to move…

gennyt.3428:

lordkrall.7241:

I have never claimed that it was groundbreaking. I simply showed that it is fully possible to get almost an exact replica of the GvG mode from Guild Wars 1 in this game right now.

Let’s not play word games and put words into people’s mouths(and dodge the rest of my comment apparently). My point is that if these players found sPvP to be more attractive than the flexibility offered by WvWvW then GvGs would have taken off there, doubt you would have been the one to think of it now.

I understand the freedom argument but at the same time it baffles me. One of the most recurrent comment the “competitive players” will spout at every opportunity they have is that you need to give skill more space. Yes, WvW has more freedom but also isn’t nearly as balanced. Which put more in question the “skill” part of any win.

That reminds me of some dueling players who just wanders around with a full on dueling spec beating the kitten out of players who have more balanced build for the need of WvW (not just one trick pony builds that always execute the same skill sequence).
Of course they will win more often than not in duels (but also be far less useful in any other part of the game) but don’t tell them their victory is in large part due to their build being duel oriented and not their inherent talent or skill. If they wanted to show any skill they would say let’s switch role and see if I still beat the kitten out of you with my staff ele while you pick your shatter mesmer or thief (good luck to the poor sod that will now have to get a taste of what it can feel likes to be on the defensive non-stop as I face roll him into dirt without much risk). In short, skill shining usually call for nullification of as many unfair advantages and is why I’m baffled by the appeal of WvW who is all but balanced.

That being said, I can understand your frustration even if for me GvG was always about a control freak player playing 8 players at the same time by yelling orders in a mike. I personally hate it in GW1 because it felt like you were in a rowboat. I’m a freestyle guy and this is no place for freestyle. Like at all.

Jim Hunter.6821:

briggah.7910:

Thou shall not chase after one guy with ten of your friends after stacking on the commander for supply count..

Thou shall not jump on 1 guy and spam laugh when it took 10 of your friends to help chase him down and kill him.

Amen!

lordkrall.7241:

And why people wait for GvG there is always the ability to create your own (that mimics GW1s version quite well).

1: Put score-limit on max (1000 points)
2: Put time-limit on max (30 minutes)
3: Put only Legacy of the Foefire in the queue
4: End the match when one team kills the other teams Guild Lord
5: GW1 GvG emulation complete.

Exactly!

However, this is limited to 5 vs 5 instead of 8 vs 8 or more…

sMihaly.1492:

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

body blocking

http://youtu.be/JO-hvm2OwZw?t=3m40s

Yeah, a troll opportunity waiting to happen.

sephiroth.4217:

So basically I’m bored with WvW, the only part of GW2 I actually enjoy…

It’s either I join a zerg and PvD my way around the map, occasionally wiping or getting wiped depending on who has that extra 20 players in the zerg or I roam around chasing people who refuse to fight for over an hour before boredom sets in knowing the best fight was a 1v6 while you were capping your 100th sentry looking for someone… (OCX player)

I want to know, what have people done to bring excitement back to the game for themselves?

Have you got a game you play internally while in WvW? (Eg: 2 people hold the bridge of justice between red keep and mendons)
Or do you roll a trap ranger and pretend to be afk for that greedy thief eyeing you off?

Gimmie some Idea’s please

Rant ahead,

Personally, I try to play WvW not another game that only make WvW even less viable. A lot of the people who whine about how bad WvW has become are in large part great contributor to the problem.

You find the game boring because the numbers and coverage are way too unfair (and they are)? Don’t make it worst by ignoring the game and try to use the logical options available first. Use sieges to offset numbers instead of promoting a rather imbecile shame mentality regarding sieges.

Also, at least try to forge alliances with the other lesser server to minimize the number and coverage problem. Yes, A-net could help the formation of alliances by introducing a mechanic that would protect the participants. However, nothing prevent any of us to try and form alliances rather than just behave like KFC seagull looking for any fries that the big player drop.

Finally, stop stacking servers if you are of those who complain about numbers and coverage. All I read and hear are people whining about how broken the game is but somehow decide to pay to make things even worse, and then complain about that self-fulfilling prophecy. This is just beyond dumb and lame.

Two days ago I jumped on to help a team mate who was in a fight in front of Languor, our last tower on EBG (SoR), with someone from ET.

As I join the fight to support my team mate, I immediately get assaulted by the bulk of the laughing ET forces who was so far simply trebbing our only tower from our fully upgraded keep (that server has received MASSIVE transfers after the tournament it is just ridiculous now)…

It was already bad that ET was just so overblobbed and taking pleasure in having zero competition whatsoever, but when my “team mate” yelled at me that it was a duel, I snapped!

Not only are we desperately overwhelmed but we have a complete kitten that not only doesn’t help us, but find it acceptable to whine about people crashing their duel under a massive trebbing session. We are far from the little duels that happens in the margin of the maps and where the participants removed themselves from PPT. Here, Languor was under assault from the guys who wanted us to “respect” the ethic of duels while never giving a kitten about respecting the players who still wanted to fight the PPT game.

So, from a guy who love duels and roaming, if you duel in the context of advancing the score, welcome. Otherwise, if you don’t give a kitten about PPT, please, just get lost and stop asking for “respect” when you give none whatsoever in the first place. Some of us still try to play that game thank you… Go ruin EoTM instead since it is already ruined.

Kanebrake.6192:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

WhiteRose.6934:

We’re all generally pretty terrible people. I guarantee that the one person that whispered to your friend is an example of literally every other player in the entire game.

I would not go as far as that. There are many people that are pretty patient and generous out there. The difference between my former server and the one I went to is pretty spectacular in that regard. From experience there is a pretty clear correlation, not perfect but I’d say significant, between behaving as an elitist and being a kitten.

I’m taking a WAG here but my guess is you missed the sarcasm of the poster you replied to.

Now that you mention it… well, my bad. That being said, I see so many people I thought were sarcastic and were not that it is hard to be sure of anything anymore on the Internet.

WhiteRose.6934:

We’re all generally pretty terrible people. I guarantee that the one person that whispered to your friend is an example of literally every other player in the entire game.

I would not go as far as that. There are many people that are pretty patient and generous out there. The difference between my former server and the one I went to is pretty spectacular in that regard. From experience there is a pretty clear correlation, not perfect but I’d say significant, between behaving as an elitist and being a kitten.

ArchonWing.9480:

Blame Anet for crippling uplevels with their awful traiting system. Previously uplevels were a liability but not as much.

Of course, the response given to me was that uplevels weren’t meant to be in wvw, so whatever, just go to EOTM. And report everyone that sends you harassing whispers.

Fortunately rallybotting is getting nerfed, so we may see some light.

If uplevels were not meant to be in WvW they would not permit them in WvW. I have used upleveled a lot in WvW (not EoTM), or char with pretty subpar gear (all green) without being any more or less a rally bait than the next guy. There is a lot of irrational fears going on.

But to directly answer the OP, yeah, people on WvW can be particularly putrid and selfish. My advise is to take a good hard look at them and to never forget how you never want to be.

That being said, there could be a pretty easy fix for the current mechanic that would limit the rally to 1 body up per body going down. It could be that the rallying player who did the most damage is the one rallying. This way there would not be 1 body going down for 12 possibly going up.

Still, blaming Anet for the putrid behavior some have is a sorry excuse.

Ragnar.4257:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Do you read what I write?

Yes I do read what you wrote and yes I did saw many GvG thank you. You guys have to stop looking at your little belly button 2 sec and put yourselves in the shoes of the new players. Also, realize that a tiny fraction of GW2 population look and participate in these forums.

Of course I can pretty much figure a bunch of players compose of 2 guilds from enemy servers in a field waiting is probably waiting for a gvg to happen. I have context and knowledge I didn’t always have. However, I remember the first time I saw 2 huge bunch of players looking at each others my reflex was to jump in and attack thinking I’d have plenty of support. Hopefully, someone explained it to me before I decided to go into action.

But, more importantly, the thread is about duels not GvG. If GvG does share the hockey in the street analogy in large part with duels, duels aren’t as easy to figure out as GvGs. Is the guy fighting in a duel wanting to be left alone or is it a duel that naturally happened and any help would be welcomed? Typing a message to verify is simply stupid. Why? Because if the guy does need help and he would like to get it, it might be too late when he receive it because i took time to write that he didn’t had. And would he have the time to type an answer back for me to take a decision based on his real intent? Not so sure. It is simply not logical to entertain expectation of not being interrupted in duel on WvW battle field.

I don’t think anyone on the pro-dueling side has a problem with players who genuinely don’t know what is happening, either because they’re new, or because it isn’t obvious that a duel is happening. If you genuinely think that a team-mate needs help and you dive in, I’ll accept that.

But you’re totally naive to think that every duel-interrupt is down to new players. A significant number are interrupted by people who know exactly what is going on, but decide to troll anyway. 95% of the time, when you say “we’re dueling, please move away or you’ll get killed” people totally ignore you. So it cannot possibly be the case that all these people are making honest mistakes. The majority of them know full-well that they’re being a nuisance, and they get a kick out of it.

Uh, from experience, yeah, many do have a problem no matter the reason. I also never think all interruptions were down to new players. My point is you are in the street and while you certainly can play hockey in the street, it’s a place for cars first. You are red on my screen, you are at best tolerated and not to be trusted.

I won’t re-open an old thread here, but there are legitimate reason as to why people would still attack you knowing perfectly what is going on. In many ways, we could easily argue about who is the troll between the dueler and the guy you say knows and still attack.

But, I’ll stop here and make my exit. It’s obvious nothing I say will ever matter and I’m tired of it.

Do you read what I write?

Yes I do read what you wrote and yes I did saw many GvG thank you. You guys have to stop looking at your little belly button 2 sec and put yourselves in the shoes of the new players. Also, realize that a tiny fraction of GW2 population look and participate in these forums.

Of course I can pretty much figure a bunch of players compose of 2 guilds from enemy servers in a field waiting is probably waiting for a gvg to happen. I have context and knowledge I didn’t always have. However, I remember the first time I saw 2 huge bunch of players looking at each others my reflex was to jump in and attack thinking I’d have plenty of support. Hopefully, someone explained it to me before I decided to go into action.

But, more importantly, the thread is about duels not GvG. If GvG does share the hockey in the street analogy in large part with duels, duels aren’t as easy to figure out as GvGs. Is the guy fighting in a duel wanting to be left alone or is it a duel that naturally happened and any help would be welcomed? Typing a message to verify is simply stupid. Why? Because if the guy does need help and he would like to get it, it might be too late when he receive it because i took time to write that he didn’t had. And would he have the time to type an answer back for me to take a decision based on his real intent? Not so sure. It is simply not logical to entertain expectation of not being interrupted in duel on WvW battle field.

warriorjrd.8695:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

warriorjrd.8695:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Roe.3679:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Roe.3679:

Ummmm keep the duelers in WvW please. That’s where they want to be. The red is dead mentality in pvp doesn’t always work, and duelers will want fair even fights that they are unlikely to get in pvp. Whatever the reason, this was a bad post to make, as someone who plays both game modes.

Why can’t they get fair fights in pvp? I see ZERO reasons for this. You can pick the server you want and duel whoever you want. Heck, I did it on servers where ppl were only there for just that.

In WvW you are on a battleground. You have to expect to be interrupted. The best you can hope for is to get to some very remote point of the map where you won’t be seen. But then again, why not just go in PVP with ppl who agree to do what you want to do.

Why not go to WvW where people agree and want to do that? Anyone can log into just about anywhere and interrupt a duel. These duelers want to be in WvW, why should you try to force them elsewhere? Remember that many builds aren’t possible in pvp due to amulets and food not being usable.

From my experience, the problem isn’t with the people outside the duel so much as the reaction of the duelers when they get interrupted for completely legitimate reasons. The same is true of GvG. People resent being interrupted despite playing in a field where they know they have a high chance of being interrupted.

Again, if you play hockey in the street, don’t whine when you have to move your goals and team aside eveytime a car comes by. You are in the street… Sure, you can kitten well play hockey there and noboby can tell you blabla… but you know you are in the street and with that knowledge should come awareness of potetial problems if you resent being interrupted and you know others will resent not being supported when they only wanted to help you.

Also, whether many of you agree or like it or not, there are expectations in the setting called WvW that no amount of rationalizations will make disapear. The guys sharing your colors expect your help and that you aim for the same general goal of scoring points while preventing others of doing the opposite.

As a side note to the guy saying you can’t rely on nobody. I wonder how things would be in the army if evey soldier had the “you cant rely on your fellow soldiers” mentality. Granted, this is a game and not the army, but still, asking for all to let go of natural and fundamental expectations is ludicrous. And I’m a pretty strong loner myself when I play 90% of the time.

If you’re going to use the hockey in the street analogy, imagine a car that just follows you around wherever you try and play and parks in the middle of your area. Just because he can. The hockey players even go out of their way to avoid cars, but this one car just follows them around and harasses them because he can. The players did nothing to him, but the car can, so he does.

Not the greatest of logic. “because I can” won’t get you far in life if that’s your main argument for things.

Pretty horrible “counter” analogy and understanding of the problem. The street IS for the cars like the WvW map is for the people who wants to contribute to PPT. Of course you can duel and GvG like yu can play hockey in the streets, but the legitimacy lies with the cars. Sorry, but that is reality.

If the cars was to follow you in a parc or a school yard, now he would get in a pretty bad spot and the legitimacy of your claim would switch in your favor (legally too). Also, I don’ know how you got the idea that people who interrupt duel do so “because they can”. They do so because they see an ennemy and a friend and they want to help the friend defeat the ennemy. That is a far cry from “because they can”.

This reply is a great of example of a peson who really doesn’t want to understand anything about what is actually said.

I know, I was naive, again…

Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. I can burn all a keep’s supply on arrow carts that can’t hit a thing, my excuse would be because I can and it’s part of the game mode, yet I’m gona go out on a limb here and say you would have an issue with that. Now ask yourself why, and you see the flaw in your argument of “it’s part of the game, I can, therefore I will”

Where and when did I ever imply this “I do because I can” BS? I explicitely said it was not a matter of doing something because one can, yet you still bring that. Do you read what I write?

warriorjrd.8695:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

warriorjrd.8695:

Zenith.6403:

warriorjrd.8695:

If he goes and captures a camp, good for him, don’t get me started on how pointless PPT is again.

- Points are the name of the game in this mode. I don’t know why would anyone enter WvW if they don’t care about concepts like attacking and defending towers, running supplies, securing routes and siege. “PPT is pointless” is like playing chess and saying cornering the king is overrated.

Points are the name of the game mode. But the game mode is broken. Caring about the outcome of PPT is like caring about who wins a football match when one team has 9 players on the field and the other has 20.

The game mode is not broken. It works perfectly if you accept that matches were never designed to be fair. You just don’t like that mode. There is a difference.

A game mode that was intentionally designed to be competitive. Matches were never designed to be fair. Game mode is not broken.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I don’t think you understand what broken means, but try and find me any kind of competition that is intentionally unfair.

I’m sorry but where and when Anet ever said it was supposed to be balanced? There would be a competition, true, but the means to balanced that competition were never part of the deal.

In many ways, a large part of the balance problem lies with people who, out of so called “honor”, snob sieges and alliances. Making alliances and using sieges are excellent ways to counter superior numbers and coverage. Maybe implementing an explicit alliance system into the match could go a long way to facilitate a measure that would certainly help improving the balance of the competition. Maybe being in an alliance would make it impossible for an allied server to attack the objectives of his allies. Hence, they would have no fear and no choice but to turn on all their attention to the strongest server until the alliance is no longer a necessity. Maybe…

warriorjrd.8695:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Roe.3679:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Roe.3679:

Ummmm keep the duelers in WvW please. That’s where they want to be. The red is dead mentality in pvp doesn’t always work, and duelers will want fair even fights that they are unlikely to get in pvp. Whatever the reason, this was a bad post to make, as someone who plays both game modes.

Why can’t they get fair fights in pvp? I see ZERO reasons for this. You can pick the server you want and duel whoever you want. Heck, I did it on servers where ppl were only there for just that.

In WvW you are on a battleground. You have to expect to be interrupted. The best you can hope for is to get to some very remote point of the map where you won’t be seen. But then again, why not just go in PVP with ppl who agree to do what you want to do.

Why not go to WvW where people agree and want to do that? Anyone can log into just about anywhere and interrupt a duel. These duelers want to be in WvW, why should you try to force them elsewhere? Remember that many builds aren’t possible in pvp due to amulets and food not being usable.

From my experience, the problem isn’t with the people outside the duel so much as the reaction of the duelers when they get interrupted for completely legitimate reasons. The same is true of GvG. People resent being interrupted despite playing in a field where they know they have a high chance of being interrupted.

Again, if you play hockey in the street, don’t whine when you have to move your goals and team aside eveytime a car comes by. You are in the street… Sure, you can kitten well play hockey there and noboby can tell you blabla… but you know you are in the street and with that knowledge should come awareness of potetial problems if you resent being interrupted and you know others will resent not being supported when they only wanted to help you.

Also, whether many of you agree or like it or not, there are expectations in the setting called WvW that no amount of rationalizations will make disapear. The guys sharing your colors expect your help and that you aim for the same general goal of scoring points while preventing others of doing the opposite.

As a side note to the guy saying you can’t rely on nobody. I wonder how things would be in the army if evey soldier had the “you cant rely on your fellow soldiers” mentality. Granted, this is a game and not the army, but still, asking for all to let go of natural and fundamental expectations is ludicrous. And I’m a pretty strong loner myself when I play 90% of the time.

If you’re going to use the hockey in the street analogy, imagine a car that just follows you around wherever you try and play and parks in the middle of your area. Just because he can. The hockey players even go out of their way to avoid cars, but this one car just follows them around and harasses them because he can. The players did nothing to him, but the car can, so he does.

Not the greatest of logic. “because I can” won’t get you far in life if that’s your main argument for things.

Pretty horrible “counter” analogy and understanding of the problem. The street IS for the cars like the WvW map is for the people who wants to contribute to PPT. Of course you can duel and GvG like yu can play hockey in the streets, but the legitimacy lies with the cars. Sorry, but that is reality.

If the cars was to follow you in a parc or a school yard, now he would get in a pretty bad spot and the legitimacy of your claim would switch in your favor (legally too). Also, I don’ know how you got the idea that people who interrupt duel do so “because they can”. They do so because they see an ennemy and a friend and they want to help the friend defeat the ennemy. That is a far cry from “because they can”.

This reply is a great of example of a peson who really doesn’t want to understand anything about what is actually said.

I know, I was naive, again…

Black Frog.9274:

warriorjrd.8695:

If you’re going to use the hockey in the street analogy, imagine a car that just follows you around wherever you try and play and parks in the middle of your area. Just because he can. The hockey players even go out of their way to avoid cars, but this one car just follows them around and harasses them because he can. The players did nothing to him, but the car can, so he does.

Not the greatest of logic. “because I can” won’t get you far in life if that’s your main argument for things.

If you go play on a rink or in a field, the car isn’t going to follow you around without breaking some laws. Bad attempt to extend the analogy. If you keep moving from street to street and a car keeps following you, well, you can do what you want, and so can the person in the car.

This whole discussion is silly. Duelers should accept they’re going to get ganked/interrupted and solo players interrupting a duel should be prepared to die alone. It’s pretty simple to understand.

I should have learned since a long time now that I wasn’t going to change ppl’s mind this way. The idealist in me always wants to try thought…

Oh well…

Roe.3679:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Roe.3679:

Ummmm keep the duelers in WvW please. That’s where they want to be. The red is dead mentality in pvp doesn’t always work, and duelers will want fair even fights that they are unlikely to get in pvp. Whatever the reason, this was a bad post to make, as someone who plays both game modes.

Why can’t they get fair fights in pvp? I see ZERO reasons for this. You can pick the server you want and duel whoever you want. Heck, I did it on servers where ppl were only there for just that.

In WvW you are on a battleground. You have to expect to be interrupted. The best you can hope for is to get to some very remote point of the map where you won’t be seen. But then again, why not just go in PVP with ppl who agree to do what you want to do.

Why not go to WvW where people agree and want to do that? Anyone can log into just about anywhere and interrupt a duel. These duelers want to be in WvW, why should you try to force them elsewhere? Remember that many builds aren’t possible in pvp due to amulets and food not being usable.

From my experience, the problem isn’t with the people outside the duel so much as the reaction of the duelers when they get interrupted for completely legitimate reasons. The same is true of GvG. People resent being interrupted despite playing in a field where they know they have a high chance of being interrupted.

Again, if you play hockey in the street, don’t whine when you have to move your goals and team aside eveytime a car comes by. You are in the street… Sure, you can kitten well play hockey there and noboby can tell you blabla… but you know you are in the street and with that knowledge should come awareness of potetial problems if you resent being interrupted and you know others will resent not being supported when they only wanted to help you.

Also, whether many of you agree or like it or not, there are expectations in the setting called WvW that no amount of rationalizations will make disapear. The guys sharing your colors expect your help and that you aim for the same general goal of scoring points while preventing others of doing the opposite.

As a side note to the guy saying you can’t rely on nobody. I wonder how things would be in the army if evey soldier had the “you cant rely on your fellow soldiers” mentality. Granted, this is a game and not the army, but still, asking for all to let go of natural and fundamental expectations is ludicrous. And I’m a pretty strong loner myself when I play 90% of the time.

warriorjrd.8695:

Zenith.6403:

warriorjrd.8695:

If he goes and captures a camp, good for him, don’t get me started on how pointless PPT is again.

- Points are the name of the game in this mode. I don’t know why would anyone enter WvW if they don’t care about concepts like attacking and defending towers, running supplies, securing routes and siege. “PPT is pointless” is like playing chess and saying cornering the king is overrated.

Points are the name of the game mode. But the game mode is broken. Caring about the outcome of PPT is like caring about who wins a football match when one team has 9 players on the field and the other has 20.

The game mode is not broken. It works perfectly if you accept that matches were never designed to be fair. You just don’t like that mode. There is a difference.

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

…

6/6/0/0/2 is pretty fun. A little less fun, now that they nerfed Tornado/meteor but still fun

I really don’t like the full-glass builds. They’re fun for a laugh, but once the enemy thief picks up your build, you’re just boned. Everywhere you go, a target reticle over your head is sure to follow.

Yeah, I definitely relate to the thief example where you suddenly loose 90% of your life before even knowing WTF happened. lol.

Were you all zerker with your 6/6/0/0/2 trait line?

warriorjrd.8695:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

warriorjrd.8695:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

warriorjrd.8695:

Zenith.6403:

warriorjrd.8695:

The problem I have seen is when the duel takes place at an objective or close to it. You see someone from your team and you decide to jump in to help him preserve or take the objective. Now imagine the surprise when the player, who made a move to help you thinking he would have your support, end up being alone in fighting the ennemy.

When you mainly play staff like me (ele), it can be a pretty unpleasant surprise to end up 1vs1 against someone whith a pure duel build while you are more support. Chances are, you get killed for your trouble and you seriously wonder WTF didn’t your pal lift a finger to help you.

People shouldn’t have to ask anything. The guy is red, he is a target, period. If duels were legitimate as you want them to be as opposed to what they are, GW would have included a “duel” status where only people in duel status could interreact with each others.

I totally prefer to have fair and balanced matches and I admire your honorable intentions. Sadly, you pick the wrong place to expect people to follow any kind of unwritten rule (that not everyone are aware of at all). It is not always obvious that you are having a duel rather than defending your life in WvW context. The knee jerk reaction will always be to help the people on your side and smack the red one.

And even so, why should we trust an ennemy dueller? What prevent him from taking a camp once we go away and he win his macth vs you? Yeah, I know, “honor”. The problem is, the world is composed of all sort of people and we don’t know all you know about him. I see way too many turn-coat and liar who are eager to just troll the kitten out of anybody…

You can duel all you want and I hope it will always go like you want, but my advise is to make yourself as invisible as possible or better yet, take a dedicated to duel pvp server.

I explained to you why you can’t duel in spvp, yet you still hit your head against the wall saying that it’s my best option. Go figure. Also who cares what he does or what happens to him after to duel. If he goes and captures a camp, good for him, don’t get me started on how pointless PPT is again. The point is, (and I don’t know where you are from where most people are unaware of not to interfere with duels) most people know when a duel is going on and should try and respect that. If they want to kill the guy after the fact, go for it, the duel is over. But if you get killed trying to interrupt a duel, well as I’ve said before, don’t cry.

Actually you explained a falsehood. There are servers dedicated for you to pick a fight with those that are there in a duel. You either don’t know it or don’t want to know about it. But that is a different matter.

As for saying my argument based on game mode is weak, it is only weak because you say so not because it is weak per se. It IS a conquest type game. The duelers and GvGers are akin to kids playing hockey in the streets telling cars to stop shouting at them. I’m sorry, but the cars have a pretty valid point if they tell you to go play elsewhere.

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

…

I have a really hard time not using AB now. You’re right, just hitting one person isn’t how it was meant to be played… but it’s also a blast finisher so you’ll get the bonus healing from blasting a water field when you use it. So running a quick test in spvp…

From Arcane Brilliance:

3752 from Arcane Brilliance (0 targets hit)
1448 from blast combo.
5200 Total Heal

4502 From AB (1 target hit)
1448 from blast combo
5950 Total Heal
(Deals 445 Damage)

Glyph of Elemental Harmony:

5373 Total Heal + 1 Boon

Ether Renewal:
721*8 = 5760 Total Heal

The kicker here is that i’m also using Arcane Mastery which makes AB a 20s cooldown instead of 25s. You might be able to devise a build to reduce the glyph cooldown, but that would require 2 pts into air which could work… but would require some tinkering.

Ether Renewal is great… but my build doesn’t have a great deal of stab to make it viable, and enough condi clear already.

Last note, is that the above is only 1 target hit. This thing can go up to 5 targets hit…. which is basically a full-heal in a fight against a mesmer or turret engi.

On the note of your build: I really like the 0/0/2/6/6 build myself… but it’s too bunkery for me. I found it very limiting in actual 1v1 or duels which is what I’m really most interested in. With zerker amulet, it might be more feasible… but then you’re shoe-horned into cantrips which (great as they are) are too defensive for my liking. But I’m glad to see others are still out there rockin’ that staff

Thanks for watching, and great question!

Thanks for the heal stats! I rarely experiment with precise numbers so I’m glad some take the time to do so.

As for my build being too bunkery, it’s pretty hard to feel like a bunker when you are entirely zerker. With 1026 of thoughness, pretty much any strike leave a good mark. The traits are what makes it viable.

That being said, I’m playing a lot more in a WvW roaming context than duel settings so I guess my build could be more agressive if in another context. At least for my skill level that is. Maybe some staff ele play pure zerker wih 6 in fre and air but I never had much fun doing it and I did tried it a lot. I’m just not good enough for it.

warriorjrd.8695:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

warriorjrd.8695:

Zenith.6403:

warriorjrd.8695:

People like you have no honour for lack of a better word. To you spawn camping would be justified because you are obligated to as a wvw player because they are the enemy.

- Hah! You’re saying it’s honorable to leave your team mate to die. You probably won’t even help your team mate who is getting killed by enemy 1v1 because you think it’s a duel and they “deserve” it for not having 1v1 build on their character. Nobody gives a **** about your ego.

I would ask if it was a duel, if it wasn’t I would help him out. I don’t see why it’s so hard to grasp the concept of respecting an organized duel. I have saved plenty of people from getting stomped or in 2v1 situations. Just because I respect duels doesn’t mean I let my teammates die, stop thinking like an idiot.

The problem I have seen is when the duel takes place at an objective or close to it. You see someone from your team and you decide to jump in to help him preserve or take the objective. Now imagine the surprise when the player, who made a move to help you thinking he would have your support, end up being alone in fighting the ennemy.

When you mainly play staff like me (ele), it can be a pretty unpleasant surprise to end up 1vs1 against someone whith a pure duel build while you are more support. Chances are, you get killed for your trouble and you seriously wonder WTF didn’t your pal lift a finger to help you.

People shouldn’t have to ask anything. The guy is red, he is a target, period. If duels were legitimate as you want them to be as opposed to what they are, GW would have included a “duel” status where only people in duel status could interreact with each others.

OH MAI GAWD enough with the game mode nonsense. Honestly, I suppose you would endorse camping the enemy spawn with tons of siege making it impossible for them to leave, just because they are a read name. Running into somebody on the field and 1v1ing them doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a duel. There are dueling spots on each map, which most people should know that if two people are fighting there, it’s a duel and you should respect that. Maybe learn those spots before you run in there with your staff, or like I suggested, just ask if it’s a duel and if the guy wants help.

I personally don’t like 2v1ing a person, just because I like the practice of 1v1s and relying on myself and not somebody else assisting me. However, if I just run across somebody in the field I won’t stop attacking if an ally comes along. If it’s a proper duel however, in a dueling spot, where we bowed etc, then you can be kitten sure I won’t 2v1 the guy.

You seriously need to get some better arguments and stop relying on anet to tell you how to play the game. It was the same thing when you tried saying GvG’s were bad. The whole “it’s not the intended gamemode” garbage. I play on SFR, home to the biggest PPTers EU. All they care about is the tick, and they grasp this concept easier than you because when I ask them not to interfere, they don’t. Often times they will actually ask me if I want help, which seems to be too difficult for you I guess.

If want to keep leaning on your gamemode crux argument, go for it. But just understand that a lot of players completely disagree with you and have something of unwritten rules, where you respect duels, simple as that. I would also like to point out that in your ignorance of duels you seem to be under the delusion that spvp would ever be a better spot for them. First off there is no spvp server where you can just enter and pick a fight with other people in there like you can in wvw. Second, don’t even get me started on the stat differences between wvw and spvp, which for a lot of people make quite the difference in their builds and can’t be replicated in spvp.

I totally prefer to have fair and balanced matches and I admire your honorable intentions. Sadly, you pick the wrong place to expect people to follow any kind of unwritten rule (that not everyone are aware of at all). It is not always obvious that you are having a duel rather than defending your life in WvW context. The knee jerk reaction will always be to help the people on your side and smack the red one.

And even so, why should we trust an ennemy dueller? What prevent him from taking a camp once we go away and he win his macth vs you? Yeah, I know, “honor”. The problem is, the world is composed of all sort of people and we don’t know all you know about him. I see way too many turn-coat and liar who are eager to just troll the kitten out of anybody…

You can duel all you want and I hope it will always go like you want, but my advise is to make yourself as invisible as possible or better yet, take a dedicated to duel pvp server.

warriorjrd.8695:

Zenith.6403:

warriorjrd.8695:

People like you have no honour for lack of a better word. To you spawn camping would be justified because you are obligated to as a wvw player because they are the enemy.

- Hah! You’re saying it’s honorable to leave your team mate to die. You probably won’t even help your team mate who is getting killed by enemy 1v1 because you think it’s a duel and they “deserve” it for not having 1v1 build on their character. Nobody gives a **** about your ego.

I would ask if it was a duel, if it wasn’t I would help him out. I don’t see why it’s so hard to grasp the concept of respecting an organized duel. I have saved plenty of people from getting stomped or in 2v1 situations. Just because I respect duels doesn’t mean I let my teammates die, stop thinking like an idiot.

The problem I have seen is when the duel takes place at an objective or close to it. You see someone from your team and you decide to jump in to help him preserve or take the objective. Now imagine the surprise when the player, who made a move to help you thinking he would have your support, end up being alone in fighting the ennemy.

When you mainly play staff like me (ele), it can be a pretty unpleasant surprise to end up 1vs1 against someone whith a pure duel build while you are more support. Chances are, you get killed for your trouble and you seriously wonder WTF didn’t your pal lift a finger to help you.

People shouldn’t have to ask anything. The guy is red, he is a target, period. If duels were legitimate as you want them to be as opposed to what they are, GW would have included a “duel” status where only people in duel status could interreact with each others.

Roe.3679:

Ummmm keep the duelers in WvW please. That’s where they want to be. The red is dead mentality in pvp doesn’t always work, and duelers will want fair even fights that they are unlikely to get in pvp. Whatever the reason, this was a bad post to make, as someone who plays both game modes.

Why can’t they get fair fights in pvp? I see ZERO reasons for this. You can pick the server you want and duel whoever you want. Heck, I did it on servers where ppl were only there for just that.

In WvW you are on a battleground. You have to expect to be interrupted. The best you can hope for is to get to some very remote point of the map where you won’t be seen. But then again, why not just go in PVP with ppl who agree to do what you want to do.

warriorjrd.8695:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I see a lot of pretty irrelevant answers from many as usual. The OP does have a point about some duelist attitude and the play field they decide to poo on. Duel all you like, I sure do it myself, but do so inside the frame of WvW. Letting your team members get killed when they thought they could count on you is Justin Beiberesque idiotic. You aren’t in some Olympic scrimmage. You are at war. I never get angry when ppl use their superior numbers to pile on me because I’d do the same and it is expected of them.

You want fair fights? Go top PVP where all strive to be balanced. Otherwise, spare us your “fair fight” BS rhetoric to excuse you putrid lack of team play.

Don’t you have an arrow cart to man? If I’m having a duel with somebody, and it’s quite obvious to tell when somebody is dueling, and somebody interferes, first off I will ask them to kindly stop and say we are dueling. If they keep fighting then obviously I will watch as my opponent fights back. Most people that run into duels respect them, the few that don’t though are usually bads that get destroyed anyway.

If you can fight in WvW then dueling is part of it. Don’t get mad when another player chooses to play slightly different than you do and then you die as a result. Don’t even try to bring up the “way the game is meant to be played” PPT nonsense and understand some people don’t play the same way you do.

Ah the good ole “don’t you have an ac to man” line when one has nothing else to say… or cant read. I almost miss being on a server where ppl would spout that non-sense every time they have an opportunity to.

In this particular case, it clearly demonstrate you just don’t care to read a word others type. I did say I also duel now did I? Yes, I did. I’m never mad to see a duel. Heck, I indulge in them too and I love it. What I DO get mad about is when a duel become an excuse to be a complete kitten. It’s a team game first. You can be a loner all you want, I am, but ignoring a plea for help or feeling kitten because your precious duel is ruined by ppl doing what is expected of them is laughable.

What’s next? You will tell cars on main street of your town to GTFO of your street when you play soccer? Don’t get too surprised when ppl starts to run you down with their car. I would.

I see a lot of pretty irrelevant answers from many as usual. The OP does have a point about some duelist attitude and the play field they decide to poo on. Duel all you like, I sure do it myself, but do so inside the frame of WvW. Letting your team members get killed when they thought they could count on you is Justin Beiberesque idiotic. You aren’t in some Olympic scrimmage. You are at war. I never get angry when ppl use their superior numbers to pile on me because I’d do the same and it is expected of them.

You want fair fights? Go top PVP where all strive to be balanced. Otherwise, spare us your “fair fight” BS rhetoric to excuse you putrid lack of team play.

sirflamesword.3896:

Anything that hurts the PvD people is good in my book, and the disabler is perfect for that.

Well in my book anything that gives a bigger advantage to the already advantaged can’t be good. Not in this game where many supposedly want more challenges and fair fights.

I know that a lot of you hate structures and sieges but you might just want to play another game that isn’t of the conquest type.

PvD is bad but don’t blame people taking what you let them take. If they take what they get because no one is around then no amount of siege disabler will matter since you need at least 1 person to use it.

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

Hello, and we’re back with another Staff Elementalist Dueling Video.

Summary

So here it is! Enjoy:
The Featured Video

I am Azilyi, and I’ve created a number of Staff video tutorials and dueling videos in the past which are posted on this forum as ‘Scrap/Burn the Zeitgeist’.

This time there are no WvW duels included here. The reason for that is because the server I am stuck on (DB) has no dueling community in the OS. And due to my recent hiatus, I have no money to buy any updated gear to reflect the build I’ve designed in sPvP.

That being said, this entire video’s footage was captured over only 2 days in the sPvP dueling arenas and solo queue live matches. I tried to make sure to only include the duels with opponents that had viable builds. The only class I didn’t get a video of was Ranger… for some reason they were completely MIA from these dueling areas.

Build Comments

The Build

At first glance, this build looks like a complete mess with 1 cantrip, 2 arcanes and a sigil. But there’s a lot more synergy in this build than first appears. The whole build is constructed around Blinding Ashes.

Sigil of Earth is entirely too strong to pass up, especially for staff. Having another CC which is only 25s cooldown is incredible, and cannot be afforded to pass up.

Arcane Brilliance and Arcane Shield are just nice. I can see someone wanting to take Blasting Staff, and taking away Arcane Mastery in the build which would work just fine. But I like the 20s blast-finish heal, so I keep them in.

Cleansing Fire (from VIII in fire and the utility) are great ways to cause burning when not attuned to Fire, and great for blinding downed opponents before a stomp.

But the most important trait for that by far is Burning Precision which causes burning on critical hits. This gives you burning in every element to apply Blinding Ashes as frequently as possible.

And the last, most important comment is condi duration. This gives your spammable (Earth 1) attack, a 4s weakness to deal with those power builds. Sigil of Doom is up almost 100% of the time unless they clear it. At 80% condition duration, burns are up constantly and provide a nice boost to your dps.

Considerations

It took me a long time to get this video out because Anet had decided to nerf staff elementalists which really got me upset. Taking away Meteor + Tornado combo was a huge part of the reason for my staff’s viability in spvp.

In return they gave us Blinding Ashes which will apply to players when using AoE abilities which is better, but not what we asked for. This ability’s ICD should be triggered independently for each player… but I dont’ think Anet’s code will allow this to take place.

Sigil of Earth was a strong buff. Too strong, in fact. I suspect an impending nerf.

The class which gives me the most trouble is definitely Mesmer. I don’t understand their class well enough to predict their movement, which makes my CC all but useless.

Earlier Videos

Staff Elementalist Tutorial Video ‘Scrap the Zeitgeist’

Staff Elementalist 1v1 Duels from a Previous patch

Great vid! It’s nice to see other staff ele doing so well. I’m just wondering if arcane brilliance is the best choice in a duel context where you can only hit 1 target. But then again, I use Scholar runes in a context where staying above 90% isn’t very ez :P.

As opposed to the build I came to adopt (http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFAWhUM6cW4wxBr0AhAB5tmrRBlrLXB-TJRGwAAuAAD3fwwDAAaZAA), yours is more condition oriented. I might give another chance to blinding ashes since they did updated it since I last tried it seriously. I’m always seeking excuses to go to 6 in fire anyway. It’s just that so far A-NET has not given me much incentive to do so when compared to how I could perform by going 00266 with full zerker suit.

I don’t know how you came to the conclusion I was “trolling”. Specially when I look at your answer. To keep it simple, the addition of the siege disabler made it even easier for the bigger player. Spin things however you like, it can’t be a good thing.

All your big detour about coverage and number, while trying to imply we just don’t know how to play, is a huge waste of time and space since it is completely irrelevant to the point being made. Beside, a thread was made to talk about “siege disabler” so let’s see you try to argue how they are more positive than negative in a game like WvW.

BTW, I’m mostly an ele roamer and it disturbs me because retaking objectives when you are very few has just been made harder. I’m extremely used to do a lot with very little. I’m far from some zerg diva who complain about not making as much loot and karma while facing no opposition whatsoever. Also, I don’t know if you do it on purpose but the point of using the meteor example wasn’t to imply it had the same effect as a disabler. It was to make you understand just how easy it is to use it. The disabler doesn’t ask you to stand motionless for 4 long seconds to use it and just one use will make the siege unusable. You have to cast a many meteor to get rid of any sieges above AC.

Finally, your reply about how useless it is to nullify a cata for 45 sec if you have no reinforcement lead me to believe you just didn’t read what I wrote. My problem, and my whole freaking argument, turn around the bigger party gaining an even greater edge and your “counter” is that it’s useless if there is no reinforcement. Since when lacking reinforcements is a problem for the big bad zergy side? Time is the problem for anybody but for the big zerg, number never is. It is only a matter of, will I make it in time… well you just bought them 45 more sec and nothing stop your thief, or another player, from repeating the process as long as you have sup.

TL:DR?: Your rebuttal is beside the point since it doesn’t address the core of my argumentation.

Crunk n monkey.3749:

I think its going pretty well. There is room for improvement, but I wouldn’t call it a disaster.

There are counters to the siege disabler. For starters, it counts as a projectile. Therefore it can be reflected or absorbed. Plus this also teaches siege throwers not to put all rams down at the same time, but rather stagger them out.

Even if they disable the first ram, you can now throw the second one and use that, and so on and so forth.

There are ways around the siege disabler, you just have to figure them out.

There are ways in theory but in practice it will almost never work. Blocking a projectile, for one, ask that you see it to even have any chance to block it. Stealth is going to make delivery a complete joke. But even without stealth it is very hard to miss your attempt. It’s more a case of you making a mistake then the enemy having much control over the issue.

Jwoww.4315:

I use and come up against Disablers all the time. All that needs to happen to it is to introduce Diminishing returns.

If a large group attacks something and your zerg float is not on the way, then the tower will fall. Many times you use it once, and because a tower is upgrading their is no supply to use another one.

Sure it now puts a stop to smaller havoc groups that happen to come across something that is scouted. which is not all to often unless its T3.

The disablers are fine, add diminishing returns and they will be perfect.

For example, I have disabled and tried to defend a T1 keep with disablers and a Superior arrow cart on the door. They just attack the door, stack, heal, hit the door with weapons and it falls, even with the disabler.

How long does it take to DPS a gate? Are we talking a 50 + zerg or a group of 5-10? DPSing a gate is “ok” in the first case but not at all in the later. Specially if the gate is reinforced.

The problem remains that it simply gave the stronger group even more power. Sieges were never a problem in the first place in the sense that you already had counter in the use of counter sieges. They in fact were one of the very few things that could offset numbers.

Now, if you are in a position where you are whipped of the map, retaking anything is an even harder proposition than it already ever was. 45 sec of delay per goodies is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much. Specially when you are with a handfull of people vs immense zergs. Time becomes incredibly important for anything to have any hope of success. When you are the strong party, you can take all the time in the world you want and you can carry a lot more supplies anyway.

It was not a good idea and the matches I saw so far rarely gave me any reason to see it as a good idea. At all.

I’m sorry but a lot of what is said above regarding it being new and that we must adapt is pretty beside the point and frankly ridiculous. Of course we must not discard something aside just because it is not as we are used to! However, pretending nothing new is ever “bad” or at least more detrimental than good is fallacious. Beside, I DID say I tried a lot so I’m not “knee jerking” here nor lacking imagination I assure you.

What, for example, is the counter to 1 or 2 thief with 20 sec stealth and a stack of those new gimmick? I’m an ele and not even a zerg of 50 has ever been able to stop me from meteoring what I really wanted to (granted, I often died in these suicidal missions but I was able to deliver my payload)… Do you really see a siege disabler ever failing when used? Even more so when used with stealth? Come on, stop kidding yourself with your projectile blocking theories and different placements.

When you are in a position where retaking your own keep is now next to impossible because the already overwhelming force now has all the time in the world to make 3 laps around EB before you can bring a gate down you realize that this thing isn’t all rainbow and butterflies for the underdogs. It is great in defense, true. But down the line, this is something that, yet again, benefit the strongest party a lot more and it just made your underdog situation even more hopeless since all that can be defended is in enemies hands, which sux a max.

Wake up!

killahmayne.9518:

Eles I feel like are very vulnerable to burst, either a burst of conditions or a burst of damage.

Unless the elementalist is using Ether Renewal, an ele that gets 6 conditions instantly put on them can’t clear it very fast and often they have to let it tick. Luckily, Ether Renewal comes at a huge price (if you interrupt the heal they are screwed and the healing tends to be less than SoR).

Necros aren’t a hard counter but if they corrupt your boons or signet of spite you as an elementalist you are pretty screwed.

A zerker spec like a mesmer can easily burst down an elementalist as well. If you burst them they are often put on the defensive for most of a fight.

I agree with much of this. The Ele viability depend on buffs since the passive defense reality of an ele is the worst available in the game and we can’t get out of fight as easily as a thief or a mesmer by using (abusing?) stealth.

A necro corrupting all my precious boons and poisoning me puts an immense pressure on me. Specially in my case since all of my gear is zerker. Even with boons, I am totally burstable if I don’t react fast enough or at least condemned to fall back on defensive and praying that I won’t make any mistake until cool down of key attunements.

It is already quite challenging to roam and duel as a Ele with a staff as is…

Personally, from the experience I have gathered since it came out, it is a disaster. It’s just ridiculous that it can be use to the point were you have no other alternative but to DPS a gate.

It wouldn’t be so bad if only the under dog could use them, but when the overwhelming guy can easily make it so that sieges are no longer being able to offset numbers anymore for the badly outnumbered this gimmick becomes truly ridiculous and ugly.

kyubi.3620:

Lets be honest close to all our elite moves are totally useless. They don’t even fit the job as utility less of all elites to the point racial moves are better. Cant you either reinforce the elemental or give us some mega strong arcane spell?

Well to be fair, they aren’t “useless”. They are simply not “elite” worthy at all.

Phil.1039:

I generally dismiss claims that one server is helping another. Even with multiple sources saying SoR commanders were paid off by GoM, I still ignored it as rumor.

However, I keep seeing SoR seemingly defending GoM’s towers. And I just watched as GoM took the camp next to Bravost (they owned our entire corner), farmed us for a while at Bravost, and then all left even when we were still trying to take Bravost. Odd, but that happens. But then less than 30 seconds after GoM leaves and we get a ram up, SoR shows up, runs past Durios, runs past the camp, and hits us at Bravost (owned by GoM). They wipe our tiny zerg and leave. They don’t even throw up a ram to pretend they’re trying to take that tower. They just defend GoM’s tower and leave.

How pitiful of a human being do you have to be to buy a win? I don’t even understand.

I’m from SoR and the view you are painting is pretty far from what I’ve experienced so far this week. In fact, we were often, very often, outnumbered and sandwitched by you guys from DH and GoM.

Beside, what would be the point of doing that if, to simply close-up to your score, not surpass it, we would have to thick 350 pts (approx) above yours for all thick until reset… in short, it would not make us win to play like that.

Maybe it is a small independent gang that hold a grudge against some of you and they decided to have their fun in other ways but I’m not aware of any conspiracies nor would I ever approved of such behavior.

I main an Ele and if MS would also cause KD it would be ridiculously OP.

Ele is anything but a useless class reduce to be in zerg or towers. There is absolutely no place you can’t play and be great with an ele. This is the main reason why I like that profession so much. You are not a one trick pony and you are never useless. It is, IMHO, the most rewarding profession there is.

Mikau.6920:

In elementals, I tested:
- On all elementals, you must be on combat to cast their skills (cannot cast while entering in combat);
- Need a target;
- Water ele takes years to activate (really, not kidding, more than 5 sec);
- Air ele can miss and take too long to activate;
- The only one that worth a little bit for me is fire ele. (but not worth overal)
(not tested earth ele)

I always used Glyph build and was exiting with the changes, but I’m REALLY desaponted with the elemental elite. It was the best elite for my play style, but now Mistfire wolf is the way to go for me.

I hope that at least they change to what was before. Was 100% better than now.

Elite elementals attacks aren’t just way too long to happen once called, unlike a F2 pet skill for the ranger they interrupt your channeling. I can’t cast a meteor and order my elemental to use it’s skill without breaking my action. This is pretty underwhelming considering how lackbuster the skill is even if it was not interrupting anything.

I’d seriously trade my elite slot for an utility slot without any hesitation. Ele elites are not elites.

You can use one at the top of stairs to fear people back down, as well as send them flying. Would that not be a legitimate use? Yes they are limited in scope, and rams do disappear faster than other siege, but even a change such as that would affect more than some people seem to consider. And a system to identify what is a ‘legitimate’ use or not? Good luck. Not possible. Unless of course the only legitimate use is on a gate you don’t own, but why should a player not be allowed to think of an alternative use for siege than ‘intended’ that could still help in a fight?

I have seen people here say a ballista is useless, yet I myself have seen ballistas allow a group of 5 to defeat a group of 15 that tried to take a camp, or a group of 15 (along with a few arrow carts) defeat a group of ~40 trying to take a keep. I would say definitely not useless.

I’m totally in favor of ingenuity and original uses of sieges. I forgot the fear effect. I myself often used rams as an ele to gain a large boost to my damage reduction while key elemental affinities are on cool down (I also use the fear in that case, of course).

Oh, well… why can’t it ever be simple…

Knighthonor.4061:

teach me the tactics on how to counter running into a keep gate defended by tons of arrow carts.

Some how the carts are able to hit us on the other side of gate even though this out of line of sight. can somebody explain that as well?

Are you serious? Of course if you insist on dancing under ac fire you are going down hard. The counter to this is counter siege deployment. It’s not very hard to do. Why are there so many QQing about AC again? Use your head a little people.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

One small tweak, perhaps, would be to not allow flame rams to be created inside a tower, camp or inner keep (SM & Garrison). At least force the griefers to use something that has a modicum of value.

I think this is a good start. Unlike other sieges, flame rams are very circumstantial. You have no reasons to deploy them in any places where they cant be of any uses. So, knowing that, every time someone would like to drop a ram you could check if the placement would result in a useless ram for the given context. If yes, you can’t deploy it period. If the troll want to deploy a legitimate ram, well, thanks.

For the other sieges it become a lot more difficult to say. I think we can improve the automation governing siege deployment but, down the line, some human intervention is necessary. Making a few examples ala Dhuum of old would go a long way.

obastable.5231:

if the reward was the same for defending as it was for capping people might actually defend more. cap something and you get karma, wxp, xp, money, ascended crafting mats, badges, and champ bags (chance at exotics and fancy things).

defend something and you get some karma, xp, wxp.

see why no one defends (other than yaks bend)?

probably not easy to implement, but i always thought it’d be nice if you could set a default value on your preferred play style and be rewarded appropriately.

ie: offensive, defensive, scrim

offensive: your rewards are scaled appropriately up for caps, yaks, offensive siege usage and scaled DOWN for player kills and defending.

defensive: opposite of above obviously – rewarded higher for escorts, upgrades, and defending, less reward for attacking and player kills.

scrim: rewarded more for player kills, less reward for capping or defending.

let us toggle between these 3 at least for individual rewards. there’s really no reason not to, and it would encourage people to do something other than karma train.

Rewarding scrimage more in WvW would be absurd in a game that is clearly of the conquest type. We already have enough side-liners who don’t want to do the menial jobs in WvW without providing them even more options not to. Specially if said side-liners only incentive lies with loot, xp and karma. I, for one, defend and I’m not from YB. Defending can be fun too.

As for the suggestions above, I think they are quite good, easy to apply and reasonable.

Prysin.8542:

If you think that you can freely leave an objective to be capped in wvw because you may lose the fight, contrary to sPvP nodes then you are wrong.
I switched from wvw solo/havoc roaming to s/tPvP. Iv’e played In T1 NA, T1 EU wvw, both places, roaming matters.

Wvw matchups is nothing but a long, grueling pvp match which has been made more casual friendly by allowing more mistakes (losing objectives) and made it easier to recover from the mistakes. However both modes are conquest (hold node to get points/2sec, vs hold camp/tower/keep/SMC to get points/15min)

Both modes have PvE content (lord in foefire, creature in forest vs npc guards in camps/towers/keeps).

The only difference between the two is the time the matches span. One being 15 minutes max, other being 168 hours.

Is wvw easier? No. Why? Because the coordination needed to unite up to 400+ players on any given moment for 168 hours to ensure you get the best tick throughout the day AND night is much harder then getting 5 players to show up for 2-3 hours a day to practice.

Is sPvP players better (skill wise)?
Not necessarily. They will be better at an individual level, and they will certainly be better in smaller number when you add an objective into the mix. However in terms of sheer ability to cooperate in order to kill the enemy, wvw players are more likely better

I agree with all you said above. However, to be honest, I don’t necessarily see why pvp players will be better at individual fights. It depends if we are talking about someone who zerg all the time or someone who solo roam. It would be very hard to argue your case in the later case IMO. WvW simply offer a greater range of play-style.

DaveGan.8065:

1) What exactly is/was “hypocrite” about ANYTHING I’ve said. Remember though, what “I” have said. Not what you say or think I have said.

Plenty in this thread have defended why their servers or they individually have taken a temporary break. Evidently there is no reason or standard that would make this acceptable to you (or, if there is, tell us right now what it would take).

It’s not even the fact that you transferred serves to be honest. Most of us couldn’t care less about that, and a lot of this thread seems to be united that the cleanest solution may be for T2 (SoS) to dissolve. What I and others can’t stand is why you feel you’re beyond questioning and even dare to make this morality claim.

It’s always amazing to see just how much people are willing to rationalize to preserve their ego.

#2

Uhhh where’s the question here? Seems like a rant.

religion, herd mentality

The religion jab was a sarcastic one. As far as herd mentality is a reference to Milgram which you either didn’t pick up or chose not to.

Milgram

Milgram showed that there’s almost no moral high ground to be claimed, as nobody failed to zap the dog/tester. I evoke it here, as the stakes here are much lower. Your switching servers, regardless of what your claimed motives are, ironically made this point much stronger.

You can answer me back and we can continue to go at it endlessly because I….will defend myself to death about it.

You might even be right. I and everyone could be wrong. The thing is, all of this is irrelevant if you can’t make a convincing case for yourself.

So long as you continue to make judgments against tanking as a whole here without getting into the specifics of an individual person/guild/server I really can’t consider that leaving me alone. Your invitation of a ceasefire has no merit when you’re not really ceasing fire yourself.

You know what? You are right. I concede.

Good day to you.

Demonoid.1974:

Opinions differ. Sadly this will only be truly settled when ArenaNet releases actual GvG & Deathmatch modes in an organized instance environment. Also, GvG is now a loosely used term from Guild Wars™ which referred to: http://youtu.be/EFWvdyCk1Uo (imo the epitome of esports). What most WvW’ers call GvG now is actually just a mass death match between two guilds (still somewhat a guild vs guild but most likely never going to be a real bragging right or game mode). The closest to a real GvG game mode in GW2 were these: http://youtu.be/QWhMz_Utuu4 (close but no cigar). Anyways, until the day these modes actually come, kids!

I fail to see how it would “truly” be settled when ANet releases actual GvG (so far, they won’t). GvG isn’t roaming or 5 vs 5. It is not better or worse, it’s different. It’s a completely different game in fact.

Personally I can’t stand someone hijacking my brain and leaving me the “skill” and “freedom” to obey a command that was shouted 3 times in a TS environment. I hate that. Seriously. GvG isn’t for all people and not because of skill issues…

DaveGan.8065:

First off, taking a break from WvW for a few weeks is nowhere near as bad as hopping servers (edited as would not let me put “server” right after “as”).

As bad? Are you still implying that my getting to SoR had anything to do with me not liking to be at the bottom of gold league? And that despite explicitly saying otherwise? Or did I just not understand what you meant?

I do not know if you are English-challenged or simply blinded by your naive righteousness, but please go back and check the context of “all” in my post. The word “of” connects “all” to “your actions and posts”, and does not imply “all the people”.

English is indeed not my first language but the fault here is more my reading of what you said here while remembering what you said earlier (quote: “…they call into question your moral high ground and the validity of your judgment, which is why I and others will and will continue to ridicule you”) than my lesser mastery of the language. I guess I got impatient. My bad, on this one.

I’ve addressed your point about Cold War/MAD. It’s gone unanswered.
I’ve addressed your point about collateral damage. It’s gone unanswered.
I’ve addressed your point about “all or nothing” actions. It’s gone unanswered.

All the balls are in your court. My point about hypocrisy not only still stands, but is stronger now.

Your move hypocrite.

Charming…

1) Had you referenced all these quotes before, you would have spared yourself a part of my previous reply as it came out of nowhere in the context it was given.

2)You seem to operate under the rather strange logic that my ending to reply had something to do with me having no answer to your “arguments”. I stopped replying because I saw no end to this not because I was without ammo. But of you insist, see next…

3)You indeed “answered” my point about the MAD analogy. Here was your so called counter argumentation: “Your MAD situation isn’t applicable here. Our “nukes” are not that destructive nor that permanent, and ANet has the ability to intervene. We’re happy to nuke and continue nuking so long as the status quo is in place.”

So, to recap, because your strategy isn’t using something as destructive as nukes, supposedly not as permanent and A-Net could intervene the analogy is notwithstanding…

If all of T3 are close in score and all don’t want to “graduate” to T2 what will happen if one or more T3 server decide to tank and the rest doesn’t? Yeah, that is right, THEY who don’t tank will get promoted to T2. Therefore, THEY are “forced” to nullify the negative influence on their score by entering a tanking contest or accept their fate. He who let go of the tanking is facing T2 (nuclear holocaust if you will since it’s the “bad” result). Of course the analogy isn’t entirely usable as a perfect representation of the situation, but that doesn’t invalidate the large portion of it that pretty much describe the dynamic at work between the tanking servers “forced” into an ever tanking spiral out of fear of getting promoted.

4)About the collateral damage you didn’t really counter anything btw. You merely acknowledge that you were aware of it and would not be martyr for us. This is a pretty ridiculous thing to say since nobody asked you to be martyr for “us”. First of all because what we asked was for you to just play and second because whether you end up T2 or 3 is completely irrelevant to me who is on SoR.

5)About the so called “all or nothing” approach we first have to agree that it is what I defend (I disagree), and second bringing the Nash equilibrium without explaining anything or how it is relevant here is going to be a pretty weak substitute for any argumentation.

I’ll finish by asking you 2 things:

1) What exactly is/was “hypocrite” about ANYTHING I’ve said. Remember though, what “I” have said. Not what you say or think I have said.

2) Also, you somehow managed to hold a grudge about me not replying to you (I wasn’t aware you wanted me to and I felt no need to btw), but since you so un-eloquently open that door while insisting I was a hypocrite no less I’d remind you that you never explained the relevance of your public “ridicule” attempt toward me.

Can I come of as patronizing and naive? Sure, I can see why. But religion, the herd mentality (I reason all by myself quite well here I think and against a lot of opposition might I had), or the Milgram experiment (uh… what authority did I abused of or were you victim of again)!!?

You can answer me back and we can continue to go at it endlessly because I sincerely don’t see the hypocrisy in what I’ve said and will defend myself to death about it. Or, we can agree to let go and accept we just can’t stand each other and agree about the topic.

TL;DR: Read all the text and reply with honesty or agree to disagree and we stop replying.

DaveGan.8065:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

In case you hadn’t been paying attention, I was answering to a poster who was telling others that NOT tanking was ugly and selfish for our servers. Therefore, if all were to behave in a beautiful and selfless manner according to the “philosophy” proposed, the strategy would be one huge waste of time on top of being a major pain in many @sses. The fact is, that particular strategy can only possibly work if not everybody follow it otherwise, how do you tank relatively to others?

As for the strawman, it was a strawman because it was hugely implying that those who were against the tanking were saying all the things the other poster was saying (sarcastically saying it’s fun to have your T3 keep wp and being trashed in 1 vs X etc.)… which was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off. It’s easy to try and make others look ridiculous when you manufacture what they say as opposed to what they actually say (the definition of a strawman).

I thought it was clear that you were being judged here by all of your actions and posts in this thread, not just the one quoted. Additionally nobody is questioning your strawman accusation of the troll post, so you don’t need to write a paragraph defending it.

Before you continue down this “all or nothing” narrative on tanking, do you even know what Nash equilibriums are? There is actually very little outside of theory that has all-or-nothing approaches being the most optimal.

I’ll continue to leave this here. I look forward to seeing the continued ironic hypocrisy from your underinformed and naive ideals.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

It’s always amazing to see just how much people are willing to rationalize to preserve their ego.

Then maybe it would be a great idea if you would reply to the post in question rather than make some post without any context after my last answer to the troll post. Beside, I’m not judged by all, I’m judged by some including you. And frankly, I couldn’t care less about how you, or others, judge me if all you say is based on nothing. If you disagree with the ideas and opinions I emit, tackle the ideas and opinions I emit with arguments instead of posting vacuous stuff about who you think I am. We don’t know each others and can only comment on what the other has written.

EDIT
Oh, and BTW, speaking of strawman and hypocrisy… when you say “Translation: guys fight hard to get wrecked in T2 while I transfer myself out of it! Endure your predicament while I leave mine! The hypocrisy and the justification coming from you is just sad.” it is a pretty good example of putting words into someone’s mouth to make him say what you KNOW he didn’t. I’ll repeat again, I’ve spend 2 years on Mag so your attempt at making me look like someone who would never endure what you might, maybe, taste even if just a little is completely pathetic. More importantly I didn’t moved away to SoR to escape the predicament YOU say I want to escape. I already explained why I moved to SoR. That you believe it or not is your kittening kitten problem.

azyume.6321:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I’d personally rather be spanked bad by a zerg 24/7 than play like that. But even if you prefer the alternative, there is no debate about it being pretty bad and sad and, most of all, unsustainable.

Would you really? Can you say the same for your new server or even old one? Can you say the same for the majority of players? Can you say for sure the server that goes to Gold will remain as they are and won’t suffer from it?

It is pretty obvious that the servers tanking are concerned about their base players and community. It is a high stake, if the community is really tight, they can survive the upcoming stomp; if not they will dissolve just like as it happened to so many servers in the past, which some haven’t been able to recover since then.

I think it is safe to assume that at this point the majority plays this game for fun and there is so much fun you can find being spawn camped and have 0 belongings in all 4 maps besides discouraged players. The server that have the lead, will probably maintain their PvE players at least until they finish their achievements, more advantage for them. The same won’t happen to the server that is being dominated though.

It is easy to say those servers are doing a disservice tanking while sitting in higher grounds. Let their own community decide and do whatever they want and think is best for them, because they are the ones that holds the knowledge about it, if they are structured enough for hardships or not and not someone from outside.

I don’t know what your problem is with my answer. I repeat: YES between being stomped into a crater fighting and tanking I prefer fighting. I spent 2 years on Mag… My moving into another server is not related to winning fights and making easy karma. If that was the case I wouldn’t have moved to SoR now would I? We are actually pretty well zerged by Sorrow Furnace ATM to be honest and regularly outnumbered. The reason I chose that place, again, was to find a community where I felt comfortable as opposed to one with a kittenty attitude. An attitude I can perceive in many here might I add.

DaveGan.8065:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

This is a strawman… Nobody say it is fun to be wrecked. I sure as hell didn’t even implied it. Heck, I was on Mag until a few days ago so I sure know a little about it… I merely said the strategy is unsustainable and, if applied by all, would amount to nothing on top of being boring to death in an arguably worst way than being rolled over while fighting.

Translation: guys fight hard to get wrecked in T2 while I transfer myself out of it! Endure your predicament while I leave mine! The hypocrisy and the justification coming from you is just sad.

Nobody ever said the strategy
had to be applied by all, so this is a strawman on your end. The situation right now similar to a Nash equilibrium where optimal strategies are mixes of things. And as I’ve said before, this is not a self-regulating system. If things get bad enough ANet will come in and intervene. And, frankly, that’s what quite a few people here want to see.

In case you hadn’t been paying attention, I was answering to a poster who was telling others that NOT tanking was ugly and selfish for our servers. Therefore, if all were to behave in a beautiful and selfless manner according to the “philosophy” proposed, the strategy would be one huge waste of time on top of being a major pain in many @sses. The fact is, that particular strategy can only possibly work if not everybody follow it otherwise, how do you tank relatively to others?

As for the strawman, it was a strawman because it was hugely implying that those who were against the tanking were saying all the things the other poster was saying (sarcastically saying it’s fun to have your T3 keep wp and being trashed in 1 vs X etc.)… which was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off. It’s easy to try and make others look ridiculous when you manufacture what they say as opposed to what they actually say (the definition of a strawman).