Guild Wars 2

Thank you for your answers. I didn’t read the details beyond what was offered and how much it was costing.

I usually never experience any delay when I purchase gems, so I wasn’t expecting one here… As long as it eventually appear, I don’t mind.

Fishae.2503:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I have preordered the ultimate edition since there was a 4k gems going with it. However, I did not received the 4k gems after the transaction, only the skins and identity repair kit. Is it supposed to only be available at release unlike the rest?

you can already receive the bonus items such as spearmarshal’s presecne and lily of the elon pass?

Yes. But you can’t yet used the pass.

I have preordered the ultimate edition since there was a 4k gems going with it. However, I did not received the 4k gems after the transaction, only the skins and identity repair kit. Is it supposed to only be available at release unlike the rest?

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

So the moral is don’t complain about anything ever. Don’t let the devs know the shortcomings or features they need to improve, which is arguably the most valuable information they could gain from their player base. All because you say so and you don’t like complaining. Just think without complaining we would have no unions, worker Rights, civil rights or product safety and nothing would ever be improved and we’d never invent anything that improves our lives, because we wouldn’t want to complain, that’s the worst thing ever! Quick get the safe spaces ready, I can’t handle this.

Great logic, if u guys don’t have anything else to say other then to complain about me personally, then u shouldn’t post on the thread unless you’re adding to it.

As of now wvw is a dying game mode and needs help and suggestions, not bashing pvers who are the ones who keep the game afloat so you can enjoy wvw.

It is fine, even important, to report a problem/complain. However, not all issues are as important or even valid.

WvW can definitely use help and fresh blood, but not at all cost. If all the fresh blood care only for reward I say no thank you to your “help” since you are a danger to the game mode rather than a salvation (IMO).

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Putting a timer on anything, adds needless pressure. As many vets have said they don’t care about the rewards, if so, then who cares about including a mechanic that dictates how loot is awarded.

Additionally, The timer pigeon holes players into specific activities, which is totally unnecessary and too much of a strong arm approach on a-nets part. It also adds unnecessary pressure to keep moving, and instead of rewards feeling like a carrot on a stick it now feels like a slave driver cracking a whip, constantly reminding you that you might not be “participating” in the way anet wants.

There are a lot more problems associated with wvw then worrying about “AFKers.”

The biggest concern about them was that they were taking up spots when maps were full. Now that the patch is out and the grind for rewards has proven to be ridiculous, 99% of those filled maps aren’t filled anymore. So who cares about any of this anyways, it has become a moot point.

I personally don’t care that you get all you want instantly and for free. You, or anyone else. And I don’t like the timer either…

What I do care about though is how you will play differently if you are motivated by doing your best winning the game vs doing your best getting more external reward. It provides a very different gaming experience for all involved.

Dawdler.8521:

Best change to WvW kitten that.

Apparently when you fight like below 1vX multiple times trying to defend kitten you’re not kittening participating in WvW. I started at mid T4 when I joined the border because the other border was dull fighting 1v3+ at every turn.

kitten Anet and kitten their idea of what participation is

After that I logged because guess kittening what, going to defend the kittening camp, 5 people, going out of spawn, 5 people, by the time I took a kitten ruin just to try to stop that kittening decay I was T1.

Yeah, it should matter if you try and defend no matter how successful you were.

DevilishLyx.2340:

So I have been playing an ele in WvW for 4 years now.

But seriously all the skill cast times are just way too slow!

Call a water field and by the time it actually gets casts, your commander has moved somewhere else and you are luck to get more than 1 blast, and because most people have moved away, it was a waste.

These staff skills are just too slow for use with a large group, and not as effective as other classes like the OP thief.

I learned to anticipate while playing staff. You have little choice but to try and anticipate where your target will be. That and make the target follow you where you want it.

Staff is slow and clunky, but also very powerful and versatile. Specialy in large fights.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

No you did not. Not since the change anyway.

When you’re running a treb your countdown timer ticks until it becomes visible, and then each shot resets your timer to 1 minute. Go ahead, walk away from your treb after that. Your participation gets flushed.

Except I did…

but, maybe, like the other person said, I did happenedd to kill something or someone while trebbing. That I can’t remember.

However, I was never even close, EVER, to my participation getting flushed. I never played in a hurry scared to loose participation and I played as much solo, scout or zerg as I wanted, the way I wanted.

I’m not saying there are no problems. I’m saying I never saw one so far. Hence, why I joke about my account being VIP.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Go run a treb for 10 minutes. Then take 10 minutes to hang your laundry.

Let us know how it works out.

I actually did just that at one point… and I still never lost anything…

There is definitely something that escapes me here…

Lahmia.2193:

…putting the washing on the line and no degen?! But the “degen is crazy, revert now” people said it was really bad. How can this be?

Same. Did it again yesterday and I was not part of any squad or group. I was sure I would be out, but no.

Maybe I have a VIP account…

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Can I get a show of hands from those who still played back in the day when you lost money in WvW instead of making it, by paying to upgrade objectives, repair armor and spending hours scouting objectives while they upgraded.

I’d still play WvW if it awarded nothing. It isn’t a job, I don’t do it to support something, I do it because I enjoy it, it’s stress relieving, it’s great for socializing.

Rewards are great and they should be there. It’s proper design to have all areas of the game giving adequate loot to sustain yourself. It’s more important for some people than others and that’s okay, everyone has fun in a different way. But for those who are more focused on the grind, remind yourself that when you reach your goal, you’ll probably leave WvW behind forever. Why should the devs cater to the people who are only there temporarily? The players who have stuck it out through thick and thin, or the new players who have discovered something they love, are the ones that deserve a long term goal and goodies on the journey for their troubles.

You deserve your cut as well even if you’re only there to suck the loot out of it. But don’t expect sympathy when that’s your only motivation. I’m not going to welcome someone to my party who’s only there for cake and beer.

Raises hand!

Lord Velar.1509:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Lord Velar.1509:

If you said thief, you have a bit of work to do, a thief shouldn’t be able to handle you well on his own

As for 1v1 or counters in any situation, that would be necros, they can rip more of your boons than you can apply

All thieves? I too play squishy and burst thieves are a pain to win against. It is more a question of them making mistakes when I win, then me playing flawless (I play staff, not S/F tho but still).

Most of the eles I run against keeps my damage to as much a minimum as possible, I usually get them to at least 10% health before I’m downed, then if they can they heal back up

it never fails

Most of the ele play meta auramancers… you therefore run in near perma protection and regen with earth magic mitigating crits or condis a lot… which is not the case of the people you replied to. Far from it…

I hae to admit that the kittened level of damage some specs enjoy for pressing/spamming 1 button is often baffling.

Lord Velar.1509:

If you said thief, you have a bit of work to do, a thief shouldn’t be able to handle you well on his own

As for 1v1 or counters in any situation, that would be necros, they can rip more of your boons than you can apply

All thieves? I too play squishy and burst thieves are a pain to win against. It is more a question of them making mistakes when I win, then me playing flawless (I play staff, not S/F tho but still).

Nevaahe.6308:

The question is, are you running with a big zerg? So many people keep posting about how they don’t have a problem with decay and they are saying they are with their “guild” (zerg). Of course if you are in a huge group you are getting kills constantly and able to get objectives easier.

As a legitimate WvW’r, I can tell you that our small roaming/havoc group has a huge problem with decay. We aren’t AFK’n we are going for every camp, every kill. Sometimes that doesn’t work because while we are fighting equal fights the zerg comes, or we have to go all the way north because all the south objectives belong to us. We can usually win most of our outnumbered fights, but a lot of times we spend a good 5 minutes running from the zergs that are called while we are trying to get the north camps. Afterwards we have to run all the way back north, sometimes without any sight of anything/anyone to kill because they are all with the zergs.

Basically the only thing the new decay has done is promote zerging, if you are a zergling and think you have answers, please don’t.

I ran alone half the time all week-end and had no issues whatsoever. That doesn’t mean there aren’t issues. But I personally didn’t saw any so far.

I think people fixate too much on the timer out of fear.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

I play all game modes, I played extensively on every wvw tournament. I play only for rewards, I have 7K hours in gw2 and 8K hours in gw1. I’ve played over 10 mmos since 2001 and I’ve been playing games for 25 years, that sum it up for u guys?

If you only play for reward, I can’t take your criticism seriously. Why should I even care since you obviously do not care about the game mode? This game mode is not for you or playing it would be the reward in itself.

I’ve always said in the past that the relatively poor reward was what protected WvW from EoTM players and farmers. Now, the carrot is too shiny and here we are…

That’s like saying everyone who works a job IRL does it for the reward of doing the job and not getting paid.

Uh…. It is a game, not a job you need to pay your bills. If you can’t make the difference, there is your problem.

Pifil.5193:

Jayne.9251:

I’m not sure the OP has a right to comment. He’s established in the past months that rewards are the only motivator, and that he was predominantly a pve player prior to WvW introducing rewards.

I’m sorry if just a month in that you’re bored. Perhaps you’d be happier back in pve.

He and other newcomers absolutely have a right to comment. After all, it’s not your game mode, it’s everyone’s, you may play it more but everyone’s allowed to play it.

Everyone plays for rewards. Everyone. For some people simply playing the game mode is rewarding enough (some enjoy the sense of being part of something bigger, some want the large scale fights, or roaming and causing problems for their opponents). For others they only want the dangling carrot, the end goal, “material” reward. Most people fall in the middle.

It is true everyone play for a reward. But there is a huge difference when the reward is the game itself vs the dangling carrot and nothing else in a community driven game mode. The impact these motivations have on the game is profound for all involved.

Astralporing.1957:

Rednik.3809:

It’s not like someone is stopping you from doing it right now. System is fine as is.

Well, to be honest, medium is ugly as Zinn. Probably even uglier, at that.

So is light… Only heavy is good looking IMHO.

ugrakarma.9416:

Agreed, since the patch, i noticed many roamers being on frontlines, instead of “afk in disguise” on backlines. The population of rangers / thieves practicing this was well underestimated, now I understand why Anet has taken such a hard measure .., probably they saw the numbers in their metrics.

The difference is indeed obvious. People whine a lot about the measure, but a lot of players brought this on themselves to be fair.

Saunby.5306:

Hello fellow Ele’s, what classes would you say you feel you struggle against more in pvp? I think mine is probably thief and decent necro players!

What build do you play? Just ele isn’t telling much.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

I play all game modes, I played extensively on every wvw tournament. I play only for rewards, I have 7K hours in gw2 and 8K hours in gw1. I’ve played over 10 mmos since 2001 and I’ve been playing games for 25 years, that sum it up for u guys?

If you only play for reward, I can’t take your criticism seriously. Why should I even care since you obviously do not care about the game mode? This game mode is not for you or playing it would be the reward in itself.

I’ve always said in the past that the relatively poor reward was what protected WvW from EoTM players and farmers. Now, the carrot is too shiny and here we are…

aandiarie.7195:

BUT there is a big issue with this! What if you have to change maps to save something? If one map is outnumbered and the other one isn’t that punishes people. not cool to change the outnumbered.

People who play for the game first, won’t mind that much missing an outnumbered buff for a tick tbh.

Jayne.9251:

VaaCrow.3076:

I don’t think any of you should play wvw if all you care about is pips, these threads are a dime a dozen from people who do not belong in the game mode, either play the game or don’t, just quit your nonsensical whining…

Everyone belongs in WvW if they’re interested. Even most vets will enthusiastically teach anyone who sincerely wants to learn.

The difference is between those who learn how great the mode is and figure out the pips really are inconsequential; and those who only care about the reward itself as they tend not to be team players.

I agree with this.

Balthazzarr.1349:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

dragon.8071:

Simply put. The patch turned this wvw completely into EOTM 2.0. Welcome back EOTM. Don’t defend, don’t roam without a large group, flip everything and let it get flip so you can flip it back for participation. Bad update. Bad.

Time to do <alt> F4 and uninstall if wvw rewards is your game mode.

I don’t like the necessity of such a patch, nor is it perfect, but how can you say the patch discourage defending? I mean, you get 10 min on decay timer for defending.

Once you have successfully defended. I’m not sure what constitutes defense though. Is it by just being IN the object until the contested timer ends and restarts? Or is it actually fighting people attacking? Not sure.

I think that if you received the reward for the defence event, you qualify. Merely being inside the objective won’t be enough.

dragon.8071:

Simply put. The patch turned this wvw completely into EOTM 2.0. Welcome back EOTM. Don’t defend, don’t roam without a large group, flip everything and let it get flip so you can flip it back for participation. Bad update. Bad.

Time to do <alt> F4 and uninstall if wvw rewards is your game mode.

I don’t like the necessity of such a patch, nor is it perfect, but how can you say the patch discourage defending? I mean, you get 10 min on decay timer for defending.

Jana.6831:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

If the npc is dead, it is more than an attempt. You have successfully killed the NPC.

That being said, it is rarely a problem to kill a NPC. However, the same can’t be said of players who will come to defend an objective. They will get rewarded for defending (and it is great), but you might not if you don’t kill anyone defending or flip anything despite legitimately trying.

Didn’t you only get participation for a successful event before? Then this system is even fairer.
ETA: And actually: If you can’t even kill an npc you’re doing something really wrong and if it were for only attempting to kill something those who afk would have it even easier and this change was to make it harder for them.

I’m not talking about myself. I have no problem flipping camps and towers all by myself thank you.

I’m simply pointing possible flaws into the current system that focus on success rather than participation.

I personally never had any problem with the decay myself as I said earlier in this same thread. I’m merely trying to look on all sides of the topic.

Jana.6831:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I agree with you that, ideally, the decay should be about you trying something regardless of success.

I guess it is hard for the developers to identify legitimate attempts, hence why they went for successful actions.

You get the kills for the npcs – so the system acknowledges that you tried.

If the npc is dead, it is more than an attempt. You have successfully killed the NPC.

That being said, it is rarely a problem to kill a NPC. However, the same can’t be said of players who will come to defend an objective. They will get rewarded for defending (and it is great), but you might not if you don’t kill anyone defending or flip anything despite legitimately trying.

Deihnyx.6318:

Jana.6831:

It’s weird to be ok with the pip system?

No it’s not weird. My comment was in reference of another post about whether the current pip system is fair or not. Same wildcard is used here and there: People are lazy and want to do nothing…. while that’s simply not true and not the issue at all.

The difference is simply that if you go after something and don’t get the kill, you have much higher chances to lose participation now, even though you were actively participating. Try to go flip a camp (including killing its vets/yaks) only to lose it last minute to a zerg passing by. Getting decay happens MUCH faster now, even though you were STILL doing something.
Participating != Succeeding

I agree with you that, ideally, the decay should be about you trying something regardless of success.

I guess it is hard for the developers to identify legitimate attempts, hence why they went for successful actions.

Megastorm.6219:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I see.

Well, maybe they could tweak the numbers a bit, but still, it isn’t that hard to maintain decay by playing normally.

the only problem I can see is scouting. Some players are pretty passive in the eye of the game, but still valuable. Real scouts are gold. The wannabes that just want the scout excuse to leech, not so much. The problem is being able to figure out who is worthy of reward and who should get booted out with prejudice.

What is wrong with you? Do you think that people who feel like you are in charge of keeping noobs out of your game format or something? Get over yourself before you have nobody to play WvW with but a few ignorant, arrogant tools who feel their rule is threatened or whatever the root of your issues are. kitten …I bet you feel great in the zerg, all safe and protected to lash out at whoever, whenever you feel.

What is wrong with me indeed?

Just by your answer, I can tell you didn’t read much of what I wrote. Otherwise, how can you fancy me feeling safe in the middle of the zerg, when I explicitly said I also solo roam…

I already agreed there might be a problem with legitimate scouts and that some numbers could be tweaked to better reflect play styles, but unless you think staying at spawn doing nothing is acceptable, I don’t see a problem with what I said.

If you expect to be rewarded, or tolerated for that matter, for doing nothing, the problem isn’t me, but you.

I run along new players all the time and as long as they are willing to play/contribute I’m more than willing to help them in any way I can. I’m a pretty nice and patient guy.

You can fail at what you do as much as you need to, but what I can’t tolerate are people who won’t even try or care while expecting all the results.

If that makes me a snob/elitist, than so be it.

XenesisII.1540:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I zerg and I solo roam and I never had any problem with decay so far.

The way I understand this, flipping a mere camp gives you 20 minutes (capture = 10 min. + 5 guards (2 min ea.)). Flipping a sentry = 7 min (capture = 5 min + guard = 2 min).

You will also likely kill a few players along the way as well as accidentally participate in plenty of ongoing events you had no intention of attending because you damaged stuff or killed tower/keep npcs without capturing but get participation when capture happens.

Going by the dev comment the system is not additive and basically a maximum of 10 mins, you only get to the highest of either your current decay timer or the event timer. So kill a camp guard would bump your timer to 2 mins, you take the time to kill another guard and say your timer is now 1:50, when you kill the guard it goes back to 2 mins, when you cap the camp after it bumps it to 10 mins.

McKenna

For example when you take an objective, it gives you 10 minutes before your participation will start to decay; then if you kill a guard it will only reset to 2 minutes if you have less than 2 minutes left otherwise it won’t affect the timer.

I see.

Well, maybe they could tweak the numbers a bit, but still, it isn’t that hard to maintain decay by playing normally.

the only problem I can see is scouting. Some players are pretty passive in the eye of the game, but still valuable. Real scouts are gold. The wannabes that just want the scout excuse to leech, not so much. The problem is being able to figure out who is worthy of reward and who should get booted out with prejudice.

I don’t understand the problem people have with this update. The only players who will get “penalized” are those who “deserve” to be = last minute map hopping parasites.

For everybody else, nothing has changed.

I zerg and I solo roam and I never had any problem with decay so far.

The way I understand this, flipping a mere camp gives you 20 minutes (capture = 10 min. + 5 guards (2 min ea.)). Flipping a sentry = 7 min (capture = 5 min + guard = 2 min).

You will also likely kill a few players along the way as well as accidentally participate in plenty of ongoing events you had no intention of attending because you damaged stuff or killed tower/keep npcs without capturing but get participation when capture happens.

Vagrant.8613:

I’m rank 130. It took me 252 ticks (21 hours) to complete the diamond chest this week. I have no issues with how many hours it takes to complete. Those that have more time should be able to earn it while those who don’t, shouldn’t. On a typical week, I only have enough time to complete the gold chest.

My biggest issue is the fact that I have to heavily rely on the outnumbered bonus. Look at my picture for proof. 690 pips came from the outnumbered bonus. When I’m on an outnumbered map, I’m not contributing anything to my team. Most of the time I’m just running around killing dolyaks, sentries, guards, and capturing camps. If my world need helps on another map, I’m ignoring them unless they have the outnumbered bonus there. The outnumbered bonus is toxic and needs to be reduced/removed. In return, the commitment and war score bonuses need to be increased.

Thank you for your honesty. It is also what I’ve concluded about the outnumbered buff so far. It is obvious to anyone who care to look, really.

It is nice to incentivise people to move on all maps instead of staying in one big ball, but what’s the point when the contribution of these “nomad” players is close to null because pips are what moved players rather than the will to win.

TheGrimm.5624:

The goal of the outnumbered is to draw people into a map that needs reinforcements. The old outnumbered buff didn’t cut it for most people. Most people aren’t going to spend time in game if they are not having fun or gaining anything for their time be that in anything that they value, kills, rank, loot, levels… People are prone to leave maps that are failing unless they have something to account for that time. If you go with play whatever map you want you again fail to cover the core issue which is to get more players on the outnumbered map. If map hoping is the issue, don’t reward players outnumbered points until they have been on the map for 10 minutes. Then there is no reason to map hop just to get rewarded on another map. We are seeing more people balancing the maps since there are more movement on different maps so this is working to some extent. As far as spreading the outnumbered and paying it out across all maps, that doesn’t encourage people to spread which is part of the goal. Would hate to see the side that is running max population get rewarded for zerging while the other servers are balanced across the maps. Risk/reward.

I totally agree with the intent. I, however, see a lot of last second hoppers parasites that have no intention to help the outnumbered map at all. They do not care about defending, or anything else for that matter, save the pips.

These people are the ones I wish Anet would send all skins by mail for free on the condition they forgot about playing WvW.

It would defeat the time gate purpose and the need to play wvw (not eotm), so no.

Slyther.1297:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

So, done are the days of players magically hoping 10 sec before a tick to reep the Outmanned buff. They would have to stay on the map for an entire new tick to get something.

Map hopping would still be a thing, all this would do is change it from instant reward to “Oh, guess it’s not too bad waiting around for 5 minutes for more pips.”

People who map hop like this do not strike me as patient individuals. I wouldn’t be surprised to see such a measure significantly regulate map hoping since the instant gratification would be gone.

Slyther.1297:

Sarrs.4831:

Outmanned pips are fine.

If you’re going to change anything just make it so you need to have been on the map for the previous tick to get Outmanned benefits.

Doesn’t solve the issue of map hopping and silent call-outs. We need to solve the problem of people feeling like they have to seek and search for the buff, considering it necessary for efficiency when it should just be a bonus.

I think the idea was good. It should reduce map hoping a lot since you would get no benefit from it until the end of the next tick.

So, done are the days of players magically hoping 10 sec before a tick to reep the Outmanned buff. They would have to stay on the map for an entire new tick to get something.

It is only going to be a full time job if you let it be. There are no obligations to reach Diamond each week. It merely mean you will get the shinies faster.

Dawdler.8521:

Falkor.7932:

Outnumbered is so ridiculously delicious. When I got my first outnumbered tick with even just bronze WvW rank (+1), I wondered why it didn’t always feel that good.

My Recommendation is to reduce outnumbered to doubling your current war score placement pips. As for the two pips removed from outnumbered, I would add additional Commitment levels for bronze and silver, totaling +3 possible.

Wouldnt that give more points to the dominating server (when outmanned vs lesser servers) and less point to the weaker servers (when outmanned vs the dominating server)?

Sounds sort of opposite to how it should be…

I had the same thought.

They really aren’t rare at all. I’m even wondering what was the point of them.

I’m wondering why, for example, I can’t make a pot of sweet and spicy butternut squash? Are there any plan to expand the repertoire of feasts to all recipes?

Turk.5460:

The only average shown is the 3 pips. Everything else is assuming best case scenario. The chart is laughable. And rank gain hasn’t even been a focal point on this thread until you decided it should be. Nobody cares about that, the discussion is about pips and more specifically base pips.

So again I ask, what thread are you reading? Because it certainly is not this one.

How is it assuming best case scenario? He clearly aim for the average pipwise and 10 hours per week isn’t anything unreasonable.

It gives you a pretty realistic expectation for someone who isn’t even of bronze rank. Once you hit lvl 150, you get +1 pip every tick. Also, his model does not factor ANY outnumbered ticks.

Turk.5460:

My analogy was fine. You fabricated extra variables that catered to your personal bias. And after all that, you failed to answer where the inherent problem was with my scenario. You merely showed a problem with one of your own plugged variables – The only reason I stepped foot into WvW was for map completion for a legendary weapon (gasp, a reward!). If that reward was never available, I wouldn’t think I’d ever have an interest in WvW, and never would have loaded it up, met friends, joined guilds, and became a loyal member of my World.

So….your inherent problem doesn’t include any backup or logic what-so-ever.

Now you speak as though all of the WvW Vets currently are not trying to maximize their tickets after this update. Which is wrong, I’m willing to bet that almost all WvW Vets first and foremost priority when they log in, is to get to Tier3 Participation, then go about doing their normal. You think they’re doing anything more than a newbie pip farmer on their way to that T3 Participation? No. And guess who I see AFK at the entries of the BL’s, taking up space because they want to maximize those pips? Veteran players, whose names I recognize from seeing on a regular basis over the years. Much, much, MUCH more veteran players AFKing than newbie players.

You also keep throwing around more of your personal bias as though it were law: Its just skins, not a “tier” of equipment. Hey, wake up. An overwhelmingly large portion of this game is about skins. Legendary weapons are simply skins, since their stats don’t differ from ascended. All raid rewards are simply…skins.
Get off your pedestal, please.

So back to the original question I have posed many times, and many selfish individuals have avoided directly answering…And now that you hopefully see that its equal part veteran players, if not more, taking part in what you deem detrimental to the game mode…

What justification is there to turn away potential new recruits by locking their motivation behind an incredible number of hours that are unhealthy to any individual?

Or are you simply blind to the fact that you and your fellow veteran players are guilty of the very thing you claim to be concerned about. Because I don’t believe for one second, that someone who cares enough to visit the forums and oppose the fun of others, is not also AFK in spawn while their participation drops.

At this point I don’t know what to say because, even after re-reading, I do not see the extra variables you are referring to, nor what is so hard to understand about the problem generated by an external motivator: Quantity and quality of play time being dependant on something other than the game itself leading to a negative experience for others.

You believe veterans have the exact same motivation and play style as people who are in solely for the carrot? Maybe some do even though they had to like the game for what it was before since there was no such reward for years.

That being said, since I can only talk about myself, I can say I won’t make a maximizing move if it’s going to be at the server’s expense. I also do not care if I do not reach ticket cap each week and I’m level 3k+.

The justification to turn away new players using an external motivator is that the gain won’t be worth the loss. I have no reasons to beleive what happened with pvp and EoTM isn’t likely to happen to WvW.

I’d rather maill you all whatever skins you want for free rather than having a bunch of ticket scavengers poping tags, afking, and hoping maps regardless of their ability to lead or answer the need of the moment.

Ok…so…

Lets say you have never tried peanut butter. You have no interest in trying peanut butter on your own, as it didn’t seem like something you’d like. I offer to pay you 5 dollars to try some peanut butter. You think “ok sure, what is there to lose?” and you happen to like peanut butter, and now you enjoy eating peanut butter often!

According to you, there’s an inherent problem somewhere in this scenario.

Now lets try a different exercise, which is what the current reward system may be providing:

You’ve never tried peanut butter, you have no interest in trying peanut butter on your own, as it didn’t seem like something you’d like. I offer to pay you 5 dollars to eat nothing but peanut butter for every meal for the next week. You decide that it might not be best for you to even try peanut butter, because the means are not worth the reward.

So where is this “inherent” problem you see? Is it with the 5 dollar reward? Is it with me for offering too much money? Too little money? Is it with you, deciding whether or not to try peanut butter? Is it with the peanut butter itself? Is it with the people who already like peanut butter? Please explain, because your posts have been incredibly vague.

Your analogy is not exactly great.

The problem is how easily you want to give that 5$. Not that there is a 5$ inside the can of peanut butter. Beside, if you can’t even be bothered trying something that is under your nose for free the problem is not the game, it is you.

Still, you ask for a deeper explanations so…

If you give 5$ almost right away, you will have tons of people taking the money and little who will likely stick with the peanut butter. The law of large numbers will indeed yield new legit players, but at a cost for the community. What is that cost you ask and how is it inherently a problem?

The cost is how many carrot chasers are going to flood the game along the legit wvw lovers until they get their 5$ and how their play style and motivation will impact the fun of others negatively (see pvp, see EoTM).

As long as your external reward is what motivate your presence, it will impact how you will contribute inside the game in quantity and in quality. In quantity, because no reward = no player. In quality, because your decisions in the game will be oriented toward ticket maximization rather than the benefit of your team.

The dependancy to something other than the game itself is the inherent problem. On top of it, your very existance will impact others motivation to play.

Put simply, it isn’t your peanut butter can. It is everyone’s peanut butter can. And as such, I care how you plunder it.

I have no problem with any motivation to play any game as long as it doesn’t impact negatively the motivation of others. If you can manage to get motivated by a skin without any negative impact on others, I’m all for it… And If someone does not care about other’s motivations, why should we care about their’s?

Again, if it was a tier of equipment that was locked behind this game mode, we would not have this discussion. But it is not. It is merely a skin meant to be a reward for those who have invested significant amount of time in the game.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

The requirements are fine as they are since they do not prevent you from acquiring a tier of equipment. Only the skin is locked.

If it was up to me, the requirements would be even higher.

If you only play WvW for a skin, you need to stop right now. The end game content should be your primary reward, not the pixelized carrot.

I disagree, the skins are a carrot on a stick, designed to entice new players to enter wvw, or veteran players to return. Its working lots of people came in to checkout the skins and looked at what it required to earn it. Most got dissuaded and left because the requirement was too high, the grind was too much.

If people dont play the game mode its because the game mode is not fun, which is a seperate issue. The carrot kept people engaged enough to check wvw out but not enough to stay. If it was lowered a bit then perhaps the carrot would be more enticing, enough for people to at least stay long enough to obtain it.

As it is now its just too much and players are leaving. The only ones I see are going for the back piece and even they think that should be easier to obtain (a testament to how much most players apparently dislike wvw, or the grind for the backpiece is even too much or both.)

Again, those that were turned off by the requirements were irrelevant to the game mode to begin with.

You don’t like the game mode? Don’t play it!

It is NOT a positive thing for the game mode to bring people who only care about the carrot. Once the carrot is gone, so will they. Get yourself a better motivation or just do not bother is my opinion.

I could understand if an equipment tier was denied to you this way, but it is not the case.

Really so people who try the game mode out and are enticed by the carrot are not relevent? By that logic then all advertising done by games is pointless and the following potential players they might gain are irrelevant as well. How do you think players who are initially enticed by reward turn into veteran players? without the reward they wouldn’t even know to show up nor would they be interested in showing up.

All I hear from vet wvw players is that “playing for rewards” is just wrong, plain wrong or completely wrong. I don’t think I need to remind players that half of the end game is obtaining skins or treasures and that some of the top complaints about wvw for years included 1) not enough rewards and 2) not enough players. I also dont know why my style of play is wrong, and have yet to hear a single explanation as to why playing the game for treasure or rewards is “incorrect.” (especially since i seem to do quite well in the prestige/shiny department which others seem to care about or envy).

Your also talking to someone who plays all game modes dependent solely upon what rewards are available (there are many others who do this as well, specifically those who play the trading post). As such I end up playing all modes of gw2. I would think that the type of person that anet is trying to attract to their game is the kind of player who engages in all game modes instead of just sticking to one. If that’s the case then the “treasure hunter” is the type of player they are looking for.

If what is keeping players in this game mode is the external carrot, they will vanish the minute they get that carrot. They will also very likely play for the carrot before the good of the team too.

Yes, I do think these people are close to irrelevant to the survival of the game mode. It’s like putting a sheet of paper into a fire. It burns bright for a few seconds and then you have to put another, and another etc. We need solid logs, not sheets of paper.

BTW, I too play all game mode in this game. The only part where I have a problem with the reward and I feel forced to play is the raid because an exclusive tier of equipment, that would be useful for my main game mode, is locked behind it. Otherwise, I play because I like the game mode at the moment I play it. Otherwise, I do not play it at all/ I take a break.

Turk.5460:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

The only way you will find out if you enjoy a game mode or not is by trying it. Providing a positive social experience is how one gets hooked into such a community. So, be nice to new players and help them when they ask for help.

Turk.5460:

Right, but what about players who would be interested, but didn’t think they would be interested in it, and never gave it a chance before. How do we get them to give it a chance, and actually spark that interest?

……I didn’t think I really needed to spell this one out for anyone, but I guess I was wrong.

The rewards are what will get them to actually try the game mode that they may or may not enjoy.

You replied as if I was asking how we are supposed to get people who already play WvW to keep playing WvW. No. I am advocating a way to get people who do not already play WvW to give it a try. What thread are you reading, because it’s certainly not this one.

I had understood your point, but I find it poor. If they need a reward to even try something, there is an inherent problem from my POV.

Too much external motivation is not a good long term solution for any game mode.

Turk.5460:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I welcome new players who are interrested in the game mode. The rest? Not so much.

Right, but what about players who would be interested, but didn’t think they would be interested in it, and never gave it a chance before. How do we get them to give it a chance, and actually spark that interest?

IMHO, by playing along people they enjoy playing with.

WvW in itself is a reward for the cheer fun it can provide and the diversity of role and challenge it can offer. You want an easy brain dead karma train? You can have that. You want a challenge that is FAR above anything PVP can offer? You can also have that.

The only way you will find out if you enjoy a game mode or not is by trying it. Providing a positive social experience is how one gets hooked into such a community. So, be nice to new players and help them when they ask for help.

A carrot? None of those who play this game mode since the beginning ever stopped because there was 0 carrot before. The carrot is merely an added bonus. In fact, it is more a cherry on top of a cake for many of us.

Try the cake. If it taste good enough, the cherry is innevitable. If the cake isn’t to your taste, spare yourself the pain.

Beside, if Anet can stand its ground defending Legendary armor (an equipment tier) being locked behind raids, they sure as hell should stand their ground when what is locked behind a requirement is a mere skin (no impact on QoL or the game stats).

Provide options for legendary armor aquisition first, then we will talk about skin acquisition. Until then, there are zero valid reason to even consider a change without being absolute hypocrits.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

The requirements are fine as they are since they do not prevent you from acquiring a tier of equipment. Only the skin is locked.

If it was up to me, the requirements would be even higher.

If you only play WvW for a skin, you need to stop right now. The end game content should be your primary reward, not the pixelized carrot.

I disagree, the skins are a carrot on a stick, designed to entice new players to enter wvw, or veteran players to return. Its working lots of people came in to checkout the skins and looked at what it required to earn it. Most got dissuaded and left because the requirement was too high, the grind was too much.

If people dont play the game mode its because the game mode is not fun, which is a seperate issue. The carrot kept people engaged enough to check wvw out but not enough to stay. If it was lowered a bit then perhaps the carrot would be more enticing, enough for people to at least stay long enough to obtain it.

As it is now its just too much and players are leaving. The only ones I see are going for the back piece and even they think that should be easier to obtain (a testament to how much most players apparently dislike wvw, or the grind for the backpiece is even too much or both.)

Again, those that were turned off by the requirements were irrelevant to the game mode to begin with.

You don’t like the game mode? Don’t play it!

It is NOT a positive thing for the game mode to bring people who only care about the carrot. Once the carrot is gone, so will they. Get yourself a better motivation or just do not bother is my opinion.

I could understand if an equipment tier was denied to you this way, but it is not the case.

Turk.5460:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

PabbyGaul.9682:

Turk.5460:

I don’t see why any veteran WvW player would oppose changes to base pips, giving new players a little more incentive to continue with the game mode and hopefully help revitalize it. Our veteran bonuses wouldn’t change, we’d still get rewards faster than the newbies.

If these “veteran” players really don’t care about the rewards like they claim not to, then I don’t see why they’re even posting in this thread to begin with. It seems like they do actually care about rewards, but by golly I don’t think they’ll admit that. Would they?

A question to all WvW players opposing changes to base pips to make it easier on the newcomers: Do you care about WvW rewards more than the WvW game mode?

I am opposed because i dont want wvw to become eotm. If its not something people plan on playing longterm for how does that help wvw? Ppl come in get candy and leave. E.g. Tournaments.

Exactly!

The last thing the game mode needs is more skin scavengers. It is because I care more for the game mode than the reward that I do not want the reward to be more accessible.

I’ve seen what it did with pvp and the ascension. Let’s learn from that. People who don’t care about the game mode won’t stay. If you enjoy WvW, you will stay regardless of the presence of a reward or not.

Do you like having fresh new allies and fresh new meat to kill? Do you not realize that the point of the skins is to get the “scavengers” to try out the game mode? If they enter WvW for the rewards, then leave a day or two later due to the rewards being too difficult – that is not a proper WvW experience. I certainly wouldn’t have gotten a feel for WvW (which is now my only game mode) if I only tried it out for a couple of days.

People grinded out ascension in what, a month? Sure, lets not have that type of thing here in WvW, but there is absolutely no reason that it should take years of reaching for a goal for certain people to reap the benefits. – Yes, I know, we played for years without rewards, but this goal did not exist for us to even reach for at that time.

I welcome new players who are interrested in the game mode. The rest? Not so much.

PabbyGaul.9682:

Turk.5460:

I don’t see why any veteran WvW player would oppose changes to base pips, giving new players a little more incentive to continue with the game mode and hopefully help revitalize it. Our veteran bonuses wouldn’t change, we’d still get rewards faster than the newbies.

If these “veteran” players really don’t care about the rewards like they claim not to, then I don’t see why they’re even posting in this thread to begin with. It seems like they do actually care about rewards, but by golly I don’t think they’ll admit that. Would they?

A question to all WvW players opposing changes to base pips to make it easier on the newcomers: Do you care about WvW rewards more than the WvW game mode?

I am opposed because i dont want wvw to become eotm. If its not something people plan on playing longterm for how does that help wvw? Ppl come in get candy and leave. E.g. Tournaments.

Exactly!

The last thing the game mode needs is more skin scavengers. It is because I care more for the game mode than the reward that I do not want the reward to be more accessible.

I’ve seen what it did with pvp and the ascension. Let’s learn from that. People who don’t care about the game mode won’t stay. If you enjoy WvW, you will stay regardless of the presence of a reward or not.