Guild Wars 2

Vinceman.4572:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NikeEU.7690:

No problem with legendary armor in other game modes. Just as soon as I can get the pvp legendary backpack in raids I’ll be happy with the trade off.

You can have a legendary back item in fractal instead of PVP if that game mode is not your cup of tea. At least you have an option regarding game mode for that legendary slot.

The PvP backpack is way more beautiful than the fractal backpack I already have.

---

That’s my opinion.

I have both backpacks, and I agree about aesthetics, but I argue accessibility for an item type, not a skin.

NikeEU.7690:

No problem with legendary armor in other game modes. Just as soon as I can get the pvp legendary backpack in raids I’ll be happy with the trade off.

You can have a legendary back item in fractal instead of PVP if that game mode is not your cup of tea. At least you have an option regarding game mode for that legendary slot.

Aidal.4901:

Am I the only one who had a ridiculously easy time getting this map down? after TD there’s not much they can do to confuse me unless they start making maps out of MC Esher pictures.

TD wasn’t even a problem the minute you got wallows. This map has so much more gimmicks to let you go everywhere than TD.

I personally adore complex and multilayered map design, but I can understand it is not for everyone.

The only complaint I would have regarding the new map is how full of gimmicks they are filled with to make masteries relevant. It’s a sea of gimmicks (thermal tubes, ley lines, updrafts, and now spiderman web shooter dispensers).

Cyninja.2954:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

The only major irritant I ever had with raids is Anet choice of making the Raid reward be the only suit of legendary armor in game. It was a poor choice to put it there if they only planned to ever put one out before GW3 comes out.

This is I believe the major reason why people argue back and forth about raids. Which in itsself is already a problem because non raiders will take just about every argument they can as to why raids need to change without having the game mode at heart but rather its rewards.

The biggest complaint non-raiders should admit to is:“I dislike raids because currently they are keeping me from shiny xyz.”

How do you find out if you are prt of this crowd? Ask youself, if legendary armor were available through other means than raids, would you still want to raid? If no then you should stay away from any type of argument about game mode balance or simply shorten your argument to: “I want the loot.”

To be fair, I did say I wasn’t asking raid to change and fully admit the reward being the only reason I’m raiding. My participation in this particular thread merely seek to argue and explain why accessibility is an issue for many.

That being said, I disagree when you say people should stay away from raid arguments if the reward is their sole motivation. I would agree with you if raids were not the unique way to get that type of reward. But it’s not the case and this create a problem that affect more than just “true” raiders…

Late For Tea.1846:

The Six Gods created the bloodstones. I would find it highly unlikely that one of the gods is corrupted by it.

Acnologia.6934:

I think the gods are not real gods… and not because i main charr and asura… but they are just powerfull entieties just like the dragons. By the eternal alchemy with engine of destruction we will kill your gods humies bookah :P

It depends on your definition of “god”. They aren’t almighty beings, just very powerfull entities as you said. They also didn’t create Tyria, they merely brought humanity there.

Actually, the gods did not create the bloodstones going by the lore found in Arah path 4. The Seers did. The gods collected many artefacts, including the bloodstone, but didn’t create them.

Joxer.6024:

Does the legendary Armor have higher stats than Ascended? Just curious if its actually “better” or just cooler. Am thinking back to WOW gear and how Heroic and Mystic was actually a stat increase thus a great reason to want to get it to drop for you.

They are identical in stats to Ascended.

The difference can be summed in two points:

1) Esthetic.
2) The ability to change the stats of the armor at will.

Personally, I’m attracted to the functionality a lot more than the esthetic (Pretty usefull for WvW). Specially after having seen the light and medium armor. It looks like they have spent more time on the heavy armor than the two others.

I now have 2 pieces, 4 to go… but I’m not sure I won’t change the skin of the butt cape since I find that piece particularly horrible.

Sykper.6583:

Before we go too much down this rabbit hole, one of the biggest pieces of aiding or helping with social anxieties is stopping the encouragement of avoidance. Games like GW2 offer an escape from reality but they do provide the bare minimum interaction with other players, of which every conversation even ones in tells can help those with severe disorders like Avoidant Personality eventually overcome their shyness.

They aren’t directly going into raids here, Raids are but one of many end-games. These players grow and develop with others at the beginning, maybe even join their communications at some point to say hi; Take the smallest of steps to become a better person. When they get around to raiding, they are likely already taking measures to NOT be a burden as you so want to point out through using introversion as another facet that impacts raid accessibility. On the contrary, because they’ve likely been playing this game long enough to at least get an understanding of how difficult raids CAN be, they are players who are likely to try harder to get it done to avoid what relationships they have built up now, because they have struggled so far to get them. Or because the content is optional in its own right they can ignore it and play the rest of the game they so enjoy with others.

Avoidance is a last resort, it shouldn’t be an option to help these friends that play with us in game. Please don’t go throwing Introversion so callously into this raid debate.

Did you read what I said? Ironically, you reply to me avoiding the crux of my argument while putting words into my mouth.

I’m not encouraging anybody to avoid raids. Like ever. Nor did I even imply anybody being a burden when using introversion as an example. It is merely used to illustrate why challenging group content may be less easily accessible to these people. They have an extra obstacle to overcome that others do not. I never said they should avoid that obstacle. I even took the time to say exactly the opposite, yet you reply this…

At this point IDK what to say. I read your last sentence and I’m utterly baffled. Where the kitten did that come from? Like seriously? Either my english is that bad (it is not my first language after all I guess), or you cross-read what I say and put it out of context, making me waste my time.

Sykper.6583:

Amane couldn’t have put it any better with concern to the introversion argument. They know it, I know friends who have some of these social anxieties and the last thing they want is to be pitied and catered for online.

I’m struggling to see where I suggested pity anywhere. Just saying.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

@Sirbeaumerdier

Those aren’t accessibility issues, the Raids are still fully accessible to people even if they have those disorders. An accessibility issue is a system issue, nothing with the system is stopping any player from Accessing or Performing in Raids. What you are listing of are personal reasons some players won’t attempt Raids.

I disagree. That it is personal or not amount to the same for the player that has to deal with it.

I am going to have to stop you right there. What you are doing by making ‘introversion’ a complete excuse to not do something is way more damaging than anything you mention. You have not described ‘introversion’, what you have described is an anxiety disorder which is an entirely different thing.

I have quite a severe anxiety disorder and everything you say here is exactly the opposite of what people like me need to be told. We are not fragile little things that need the world catered to us. I do everything here that you said I am not capable of doing and have done for over a year now. This is because I do not take the attitude of your post, I don’t allow my condition to prevent me from doing things I want to do. And above all I do not use my condition as an excuse as to why I have a harder time than everyone else. It is not up to everyone else to change to accommodate me, I can be of a healthier mind AND raid by developing ways to interact with others and set up groups without having enormous panic attacks. Every professional will tell you that avoidance behaviour is the absolute worst thing for any anxiety and what your post is not only condoning but encourages is avoidance behaviour.

If you are going to take something like this to use for your argument you do not actually care about people with anxiety problems. People being super nice and open DOES change things, people being understanding that we might not talk on voip all the time (or at all). Understanding that sometimes we play worse than usual because our hands are trembling since we have not been able to handle our own reactions to stimuli well that day. You cannot expect general population of people to change things just because I or others might have a freak out, our panic attacks are our own responsibility not anyone elses.

I know that I gave an anxiety disorder and what introversion is. In fact I know both personally myself too btw. I didn’t knew how to name the big label I wanted to use for all the social interaction problems introverted gamers often end-up having and then use one type of anxiety as an one example of a barrier to participation. My bad for having been too ambitious here with my example.

That being said, I do think you misunderstood the point I made since at no moment I’m saying people should avoid fighting their anxiety or that they are not responsible for their own actions. Nor did I asked for raid to be changed btw. This was all you reacting to my example on an emotional level.

In my example, anxiety was not used as an excuse, but as an explanation as to how it can impact accessibility in a group context where performances are expected. And whether we like it or not, it does have an impact that can be pretty important. Of course people being super nice is going to be helpful when you dare to go toward them. Imperative word being DARE. If you experiment too many bad encounters, it might get harder for many to lower their guard again is my point. And if that happens, no matter how nice people are won’t matter anymore because you won’t go toward them and figure out how nice they are. The lid on the trash can become pretty close to use my initial metaphor.

I’ll also tell you what a professional will also consider regarding fighting anxiety as well as many other disorder. Avoiding is indeed to be avoided as much as possible, but you have to remember that avoidance isn’t always bad and fighting back always good. The problem is, you/we used that coping strategy every time everywhere no matter if it is appropriate. Yes, we want to maximize fighting back anxiety, but not stupidly. Stupidly meaning fighting in condition where the risk of ending-up validating the source of your fear is unreasonable. If that is the case, avoiding is smarter (it is a valid coping strategy that saved us before, hence why we retained it). The idea is to make progress with smart risks that bolster confidence. Avoiding, as bad as it can be, is not nearly as damageable as validating your inner fears. You also have to remember that what is going to work well with you might not yield the same result with others… but I’ll stop here about that. I think you get the idea.

All of those barriers are not an issue of the Gamemode, or should be a factor in deciding the decision of this niche content gamemode. Before releasing Raids Anet clearly stated who the Target audience was, they have also stated that they exceeded their Target audience goal/expectations, and they have stuck to their Target audience philosophy.

Just because individuals have personal life that happens shouldn’t be a deciding factor, otherwise the game can’t develop properly or on time because everyone’s lives are different with different situations, to try to make the game appeal to everyone’s Lifestyle is a pipe dream at best, at worst it will more than likely ruin the game to even attempt it. Anet has done well with providing a little bit of everything for everyone. Almost all demographic in game have content geared toward them, the majority of that content being geared toward casuals and people with constricted play time, i.e. Open world PvE, Fractals, sPvP is essentially all Solo Queue Hot join, WvW, Dungeons, Personals story, Living Story. Etc….

but for those people to complain that an extremely tiny slice of content should be commandeered just for them and to go against the gamemode scope and vision is by far one of the more ridiculous and selfish things to do, especially for the people that want it just for the exclusive items and same rewards. Some only want the story which is accessible already, but not to their preference so they would want added developer time to this small niche content that will more than likely slow down Raid production just so they can get a one off Story so they can feel “special” aka the hero, that they will probably never revisit since there would nothing else to be gained from the story mode after their proposed story mode.

Again the Game has no actual barriers to participate in Raids, every “barrier” you and everyone has claimed are all on the individual themselves and not the system for Raids, there are multitudes of options for players to start getting into Raids, and most of the ground work has been laid, it is up to the Individual to put in the effort/time to make it happen if they are so interested in playing the Raid content.

Whoa, whoa whoa, calm down.

You reply something that is beside the point being made. That the barrier is personnal, structural, otherwise or a mix of all is not what matters in the context of my reply.

You are supposed to understand that reducing participation to “willingness to play” is oversimplistic, and that comparing bananas to aircarft carrier is disingenuous. All you said above changes nothing about that.

Also, saying that the game has no barrier is more or less true since the kind of content Anet will go for (and decide to hide a unique reward behind) will impact on which personal barrier will matter or not. It’s all in interraction.

The context of this thread is all about what make the raid more or less accessible for the population. By itself, that it is 10 men rather than 5 as the game was initially sold and build for is a pretty big decision that had MAJOR impact on accessibility.

BTW, I’m not asking for this to change at this point, I’m only explaining what has an impact on accessibility. For me, it is obvious the major point of contention in “challenging structured group content” is not CHALLENGE but STRUCTURED GROUP.

With that being said, and for the billionth time, raids are fine as they are to me. People for whom they were designed enjoy it, so good job. The only major irritant I ever had with raids is Anet choice of making the Raid reward be the only suit of legendary armor in game. It was a poor choice to put it there if they only planned to ever put one out before GW3 comes out.

As per your trashcan example, is there something physically in the game that bars them from spending time and effort, as a trash can lid being down while throwing paper balls? last I checked, there wasn’t.

Something doesn’t have to be “physical” to constitue a solid enough barrier to participation. The willingness to play and invest yourself into the content is subjected to other variables. Sometimes, to the point of having no will to play left after they are accounted for.

For example, knowing that raids are competitive structured group activities that more often than not take considerable amount of preparations before you can even try them, it is not hard to see what could be a major obstacle for several players if some conditions are not met.

Among the things that could impact on this, for example…

Enjoying that kind of content. In life, we all have to go through 168 hours every week. Among these hours, some of us will have 40 hours of badly paid work they hate and feel less than humans doing while others will brag about working 80 hours for which they are well paid, enjoy, and feel accomplished doing. Who do you think need to work more and will have a harder time accepting to work more hours this week? This is obvious. The quality of the experience is what is going to be the deal breaker here, not the amount of hours spent. In fact, the 80 hours working person probably feel energized after his week, were as the 40 hours person is likely exhausted.

This is similar to raiders reminding others of how much time they invested to justify their success on all level alluding it was all purely a matter of will on their part. Try it with content you hate and tell me us how your “will” and degree of exhaustion fluctuates. You’ll soon see how “will” is a dependant variable, not an absolute.

Being able to be part of one or more guilds that regularly schedule raids. I think we can agree that starting to raid when you are among friends and doing the same trying to PUG isn’t the same thing at all for the vast majority of players. The experience you will have when you play raids will impact on your willingness to repeat the experience and PUGGING is riskier in that regard. Many here make joining a guild that will answer their raiding needs while respecting their real life imperatives stupidly easy. Believe me, it is not so for all and it is not for lack of trying in many cases. I myself more than likely went through more guilds than many here who judge players not being able to join them as being nonsensical. Honestly, these people haven’t got a clue and probably don’t care at all to begin with.

Being able to overcome your introversion. For example, some players are plagued with more or less anxiety of performance (some people will have a very hard barrier right there BTW). Raids are competitive and perfermance area. Asking these people to lead and start their own raid is often plain unrealistic. They can eventually change positively with time, but it’s already a big fight on it’s own that a player who do not have to consider this won’t understand at all the huge majority of the time (it won’t even make sense to them). You being super nice and open won’t change a kitten thing for them because they do not know you.

For each player who jump into raid and realize they had no reasons to fear them, you have 9 that see their anxiety validated, which make the future process of participation even harder than it already was before. BTW, having DPS meters all over the place and used the ways I’ve seen too often really do not help these ppl… not the huge majority of them at any rate.

There are other variables that are in turn all subjected to others when the time comes to make it more or less difficult to participate but we are limited to 5k words and I think I’ve made my case. However, one thing I’m positive about is reducing lack of participation to “laziness” is intellectually very lazy.

Rain.7543:

If people need easy mode to learn the raids, then they are not really interested in the challenge this content is meant to offer, they just want to cheese their way to what they persist as AMAZING rewards. Well let me burst your bubble on this one. Raid rewards are by far not that amazing. Sure you get some liquid gold, a chest of ascended here and there and some minis if you are lucky or if very lucky the ghostly infusion from w1. Nothing really that you cant get in t4 fractals for instance. The infusion you can even buy for pretty low gold amount from the TP. Well besides the legendary armor, which is about to realease, which is the end goal of many raiders besides the offered challenge.

Anyhow rewards aside, if ppl were really and I mean really interested in challenging themselves into what is the current most difficult content ingame they would simply stop whine, put the effort and time needed to find ppl with the same mindset and same motivation, form a group, gear up, do their homework from the pletora of videos, guides etc on raid bosses and go into the raid to practice, learn, fail and eventually succeed like all of us when we first were starting raiding. Because if you were willing to put the time and energy into learning the actual bosses like you have time to come up with those 1774174 ideas of ez raid modes and whatnot by now you’d probably have gotten your first raid boss, wing clear or even full clear.

Because it is very, very possible and very, very accessible, as long as you are willing to put the effort into it. But nah, its much more easier to do nothing, but post a few posts, crying out loud how hard it is to do raid in this game. Whatever float your boat guys, but dont expect Anet to change how raids are done in this game anytime soon, if at all. They already made a clear statement on this, not sure if it was missed or smth, or just purposefully ignored.

I always take offense at post like this one. Not because it is false that you need to want something and invest time and energy to make it happen. It is true.

The offense I take doesn’t come from what was said, but what was not. Truth is, willingness and efforts won’t cut it alone. Just like making paper balls to throw them in a garbage can won’t solely be a matter of owning your aim with time and energy. If the lid is on the trashcan, good luck ignoring the variable “TrashcanIsOpen”. If it isn’t, no amount of dedication will make the paper balls able to enter that can. In short, there are other variables in the equations that need to be included to make sense of what can be observed rather than just lazily conclude on laziness for everyone not making it just because it’s convenient and flatters your ego as an added bonus.

I’m not saying there are no players who would enjoy every reward sent to them by mail. Sadly, there are more than I expected. However, you do not have to resort to that line of excuse to explain why it works for you and it doesn’t for plenty others. Plenty others you have very little information about might I add.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, people should stop assuming that what was true and has worked for them will work for others, and that if it doesn’t it’s because they don’t want to. You have plenty of room for rational explanation before reaching laziness. You are an anecdote, and as such have no inferential power so stop behaving like you do. Just be happy you enjoy that content and that you have a positive feedback loop you are in a position to enjoy in that game spot. It’s great, just enjoy.

Vinceman.4572:

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Vincermann – it depends on how you raid. If you got good static squad then two nights might be all you need for weekly 13 li. And i don’t meant whole nights, just 2-3h.

Dude, look at his posting history and then you know what I mean. You don’t join a static group, go through all wings in 2-3h and collect 300 LI till today if you hate/don’t like raiding.

Are you talking about me? Because I never said I was going for 2 sets of armor. I said I had enough LI for 2 pieces out of the 6 and will definitely not go for more than 1 suit.

Vinceman.4572:

2 sets means 300 LI. If there’s no addiction but pain in the xxx to get those and still going for it we can honestly speak about someone behaving very unhealthy, more so, it’s abnormal/pathological.
Holy crap, this is a game.

Some people have lost their mind, imho.

I’m not planing on doing more than 1, believe me.

Ideally yes we’d get multiple sets but what about the ppl that just got into raiding just for the armor? What you gonna tell them? “Hey you remember the legendary armor? Yeah the one we told you about being raid exclusive. Yeah we were joking.”

I did say my solution was a compromise and that I totally understand raiders not liking it.

Still, I think more good than bad would come out of this because there are likely more legendary hunters than true raiders in this game.

Some ppl didnt enjoy raids but still did them to get the li. You cant make open world hard and the raid armor was sold as the reward for hard content. I was argueing with someone about it and was sayin that they can make it a time commitement for diff modes, but i also argued for the to be diff skins so the prestige raiders have will remain. But with only one set, its like lying in their faces for years. Its also funny someone would be playing gw2 to get the best gear.

Like I already said, I’m among those that still drag himself getting LI despite not enjoying the content. I’m only missing the last collection item on the last collection to get the precursor and have all the mats for all 6 pieces (including the annoying provisioner tokens) of armor and enough LI for 2. It is a mater of time for me. Not great time, but I’ll do it. And I won’t feel insulted one bit to see newer players having access to a thing I’ve suffered to get since in my book it should never have been done like this to begin with.

zealex.9410:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

zealex.9410:

Astralporing.1957:

Susy.7529:

A little rude but he’s right, there’s no point in complaining for a known fact from 10 months ago

Why? If he still disagrees with it, he can complain. Lot of things in this game got fixed that way.

Not 4 days before release as ppl said the recipe was known if he had issues with it he could have given feebback months back. Now its too late.

Uh, I did give my feedback when it became public… it changed nothing. The power they had back then to change things they still have today. I understand why you like to think it is too late, but it never will be.

What exactly is it that you wish to change about the legandary armor?

It’s accessibility dependence to raid. Give an alternative currency, or anything else, that can be acquired outside of raid. Make it time gated too and differently difficult (structured group activities are hardly the only thing that can be made difficult) if you want, but not tied to raid type content. The precursor is already knee deep tied to raid anyway.

Ideally, a completely different suit of armor is what would be best, but when Anet people make us understand that there likely won’t be any other suit of leg armor before GW3 you kinda have to compromise on the topic.

That being said, I can understand why raiders won’t like that solution. It is their badge of honor and my solution compromise that. I too would not like it if the role were reverse. And I’m not even asking this for me since I will likely finish most of the suit before any such thing could be implemented. I just know that end game gear is an end game content many like to go after. Anet should know that too.

zealex.9410:

Astralporing.1957:

Susy.7529:

A little rude but he’s right, there’s no point in complaining for a known fact from 10 months ago

Why? If he still disagrees with it, he can complain. Lot of things in this game got fixed that way.

Not 4 days before release as ppl said the recipe was known if he had issues with it he could have given feebback months back. Now its too late.

Uh, I did give my feedback when it became public… it changed nothing. The power they had back then to change things they still have today. I understand why you like to think it is too late, but it never will be.

I show you a link from 2016 and you are complaining about something that can be finished in 3 months. Maybe its just me but I really don’t have any sympathy when you’ve had plenty of time to meet the requirements. Also, its not like you need to make the armor at launch next Tuesday! You could start raiding today and make the armor in a few months.

Did you know the exactly requirements for the HoT legendary weapons 1 year in advance? No, of course not.

What about the legendary GS, LB, Sword, Focus, Warhorn, Torch, etc…we don’t have the recipes for those! Those were promised almost 2 years ago!

It is not only rude, it is beside the point being made.

Having more or less time change nothing about having the bad surprise of having to successfully do something you don’t enjoy 150 times to get what you were aiming for. It doesn’t lessen anything. Even if I get the armor (I do have all the collections save the last unknown item + all mats and 50 LI), I will still have the same opinion. It was/is a dumb move on their part to lock the only legendary armor behind raid. It was similarly dumb to lock many basic wvw upgrades we all had access to previously behind an insane amount of guild upgrades. That we have a maxed guild changes nothing about it.

As for the legendary weapons, unless they were/are locked behind a similar content I see no problem. There was no surprised with the weapons so far. If I would be aiming at the upcoming warhorn and learn they suddenly decide to lock it behind a content I hate I would have the same frustration.

When they initially decided to postpone all new legendaries indefinitely, a lot of us felt betrayed and with good reasons. They advertised the expansion with all the weapons minus the aquatic ones and after an eternity we had only 3 and then 4 weapons… that we could read about the topic on the forum and on Dulfy is/was utterly irrelevant. At least they managed an acceptable work around for the weapons even if we are getting the complete list at a really slow pace.

I will have that armor in the end, but it changes nothing about anything I’ve said. I’m not complaining because I can’t get my goal. I’m saying it was not a fantastic journey and I’m bitter about how it turned out.

If you do not understand or agree that is fine. I’m not asking for approval. I’m sharing my opinion and venting some frustration. That is all.

Miellyn.6847:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

ButterPeanut.9746:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

ButterPeanut.9746:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I have nothing against skill requirement to get anything. However, why only through raid, a niche content? And why couldn’t they have been a lot more transparent about it when advertising it?

Raids niche is the fact that its challenging content…

They have been 100% clear that legendary armor will require raiding since its announcement before HoT launch. It has also been all over the forums, reddit, Dulfy, MMOgamer, etc for the past 18 months.

It was 100% clear that legendary armor would require raiding since before HoT. I had no problem about that. It was never clear, however, it would require more out of raid than map completion was required out of the old set. Do the collection and you unlock the precursor was more or less what I expected.

I guess I’m curious as to why this is coming up now? As far as I know, ANET still has not given a 100% confirmation in a post or in game about the legendary armor recipe. That being said, it has been leaked and posted all over the forums/reddit/dulfy/etc.

So if it still isn’t confirmed by ANET and likely won’t until its released because that’s what they do…then did you find out it takes 150 LI from one of those sources? If so then it sounds like you are frustrated with your own ignorance. For instance, this was posted by Dulfy almost 1 year ago.
http://dulfy.net/2016/06/17/gw2-legendary-armor-collection-crafting-guide/

I found out it was going to cost 150 Li when the recipe started to appear on the wiki and I already said what I say here long ago in other threads.

BTW, how is any post anywhere about Leg armor details relevant unless they predate the prebuy time? How were people supposed to buy knowing all these details if they were available after?

The marketing was misleading to me in the context of past legendaries is what I will say. The promotion back then about legendaries was about freeing the acquisition of precursor from the TP and the mystic toilet (enter collections), not bury them behind niche content even after you had acquired the precursor.

It was never misleading, they promoted the legendary journey primary for weapons.
The armor precursor is not available without raiding, the LI argument is pretty weak as you need to raid anyway even if they would remove LIs from the recipe.

The distinction between armor and weapon was not clearly promoted that way when the time to pre-order was there. It wasn’t even obvious or making sense to proceed differently anyway.

All we knew was that you had to go into raids to get that armor. The idea of the collections discussed back then were about the PRECURSORS. So, logically, we could expect the armor precursor collection being tied to the raid. However, the details about the remaining gifts for the legendary were never disclosed and nobody that I know was expecting 150 LI outside the precursor at that point in time.

Too bad I still have 100 more LI to grind I guess…

ButterPeanut.9746:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

ButterPeanut.9746:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

ButterPeanut.9746:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I have nothing against skill requirement to get anything. However, why only through raid, a niche content? And why couldn’t they have been a lot more transparent about it when advertising it?

Raids niche is the fact that its challenging content…

They have been 100% clear that legendary armor will require raiding since its announcement before HoT launch. It has also been all over the forums, reddit, Dulfy, MMOgamer, etc for the past 18 months.

It was 100% clear that legendary armor would require raiding since before HoT. I had no problem about that. It was never clear, however, it would require more out of raid than map completion was required out of the old set. Do the collection and you unlock the precursor was more or less what I expected.

I guess I’m curious as to why this is coming up now? As far as I know, ANET still has not given a 100% confirmation in a post or in game about the legendary armor recipe. That being said, it has been leaked and posted all over the forums/reddit/dulfy/etc.

So if it still isn’t confirmed by ANET and likely won’t until its released because that’s what they do…then did you find out it takes 150 LI from one of those sources? If so then it sounds like you are frustrated with your own ignorance. For instance, this was posted by Dulfy almost 1 year ago.
http://dulfy.net/2016/06/17/gw2-legendary-armor-collection-crafting-guide/

I found out it was going to cost 150 Li when the recipe started to appear on the wiki and I already said what I say here long ago in other threads.

BTW, how is any post anywhere about Leg armor details relevant unless they predate the prebuy time? How were people supposed to buy knowing all these details if they were available after?

The marketing was misleading to me in the context of past legendaries is what I will say. The promotion back then about legendaries was about freeing the acquisition of precursor from the TP and the mystic toilet (enter collections), not bury them behind niche content even after you had acquired the precursor.

I’m still not understanding your argument. “How were people supposed to buy knowing they were available after?” All I know it is has been almost 1 year since it was public knowledge that 150 LI were needed for a full set. IMO thats enough time to essentially disregard anything else.

In terms of whether or not you think the LI collection is a good idea, thats a matter of opinion. I personally hate all the old legendaries because they mean absolutely nothing to me if Joe schmo can put his credit card in and buy the legendary in 2minutes.

We could preorder HOT since june 2015. You show me a 2016 link… need I say more?

ButterPeanut.9746:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

ButterPeanut.9746:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I have nothing against skill requirement to get anything. However, why only through raid, a niche content? And why couldn’t they have been a lot more transparent about it when advertising it?

Raids niche is the fact that its challenging content…

They have been 100% clear that legendary armor will require raiding since its announcement before HoT launch. It has also been all over the forums, reddit, Dulfy, MMOgamer, etc for the past 18 months.

It was 100% clear that legendary armor would require raiding since before HoT. I had no problem about that. It was never clear, however, it would require more out of raid than map completion was required out of the old set. Do the collection and you unlock the precursor was more or less what I expected.

I guess I’m curious as to why this is coming up now? As far as I know, ANET still has not given a 100% confirmation in a post or in game about the legendary armor recipe. That being said, it has been leaked and posted all over the forums/reddit/dulfy/etc.

So if it still isn’t confirmed by ANET and likely won’t until its released because that’s what they do…then did you find out it takes 150 LI from one of those sources? If so then it sounds like you are frustrated with your own ignorance. For instance, this was posted by Dulfy almost 1 year ago.
http://dulfy.net/2016/06/17/gw2-legendary-armor-collection-crafting-guide/

I found out it was going to cost 150 Li when the recipe started to appear on the wiki and I already said what I say here long ago in other threads.

BTW, how is any post anywhere about Leg armor details relevant unless they predate the prebuy time? How were people supposed to buy knowing all these details if they were available after?

The marketing was misleading to me in the context of past legendaries is what I will say. The promotion back then about legendaries was about freeing the acquisition of precursor from the TP and the mystic toilet (enter collections), not bury them behind niche content even after you had acquired the precursor.

Vinceman.4572:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

It is hard if it is one of the last motivation to play the game you have left… Of course, I’m already close to letting go anyway. I like that leisure. At least I use to. But the changes make it harder and harder to motivate me…

Well, I should start crying then for having to grind mats and stuff for all those legendaries. I hate it too and would rather appreciate if I could have the weapons almost instantly. But do you know what? This is a stupid idea for most of the people in the game, especially for those who already completed all weapons and went through that horrible grind. Same goes for me with SAB tribulation mode, PvP & WvW achievements and some other crappy PvE collections with grinding stuff.

So, here is my attitude: I respect it. I respect that I won’t have every legendary weapon in this game. On the one hand it’s a bit sad but on the other hand, I can live with it. Why? Because it’s a fricking game. I move on and I don’t care about it any longer. This is something I’m claiming for you and some others. You won’t behave in this way, it’s okay but I’m very pleased that at least Anet wouldn’t cater your way either due to belonging to a very very small minority.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Why such a poor and blatant straw man? I never blamed you about anything. I merely explained to you why your reply about the game not being one for me since I was a loner was quite out of place considering you are in fact the strong minority here that enjoy structured group content.

I haven’t brought in the straw man. You talked about PvP and such stuff not me. And I wasn’t also pointing out that all those people cannot have fun in their modes and stuff. PvP stays the same, just without one armor. WvW stays the same, just without one armor. PvE without raids stays the same, just without one armor. It’s just one fricking armor you won’t get if you don’t raid. If that is too hard to live with you have to leave the game, go on. That’s very much ok for me. Disproportionately high illogical but nevermind.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Is it me or you just can’t read properly? I repeat again, I have no problem with raids.

Yeah, now it’s clear. You want the armor. You probably won’t get it. That’s ok. Then you don’t get it.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Well, to be fair and to answer you in the same kind you do, you aren’t forced to read my posts (you already do not bother that much from what I can read) and can certainly abstain from replying you know…

Beside, the major reason this thread reappear without end is quite simple: too many keep invalidating legitimate frustrations.
So instead of seeing the topic slowly die, they feed it and renew the frustrations.
I can see why, and what is at stake that prevent the topic to go to rest, I’m sure you know too, but I’ll leave it at that for now.

As long as there only are some dispersed players + the same people reappearing in those threads I feel amused because the former group is most likely never coming back to their own threads due to finding a way into raiding while the others still hammering around with many bad arguments leading to 0 success for their goal because the company won’t listen to them.
#feelsgoodman

After reading this reply of yours I can say you pretty much made my point about you not being able to read.

Was nice reading your monologues tho…

Do I/we have to? Is there a rule saying there have to be some most important factors?

You don,t have to, but you also don’t have to criticize my listing, yet you did. Usually, I’m expecting ppl making such criticism to share a view they consider better than the one they criticized. Might just be me…

Nobody needs to play raids. It’s a game. Raids are challenging group content for the target audience. It’s not content for the audience that doesn’t want to have a challenge in the game.

Raids are fine. They are not the reason I’m unhappy nor do I want to play raids.

You said it yourself, it’s a game and I need my games to be enjoyable or there is no point to it. I’m trying to fight for my toys here. In short, I’m unhappy that my toy is locked in your house is my problem. Why did they decide to lock one such toy exclusively in THAT house is beyond me but they did and will realistically not produce any more before GW3 if I’m to believe the litany of how terrible the process was.

Legendaries were always an end-game content that many, including myself, would keep doing to have something to do and look forward to. I was looking forward to this one since a very LONG time. The change of HOT was meant to render precursor accessible via other means than luck and the TP, not lock them behind niche content beyond even the acquisition of the precursor.

I’m kittened at Anet, and I feel I have a right to be. I’m not asking you to agree or care. I’m merely explaining.

Then they just don’t play it and go on with their stuff. Is it so hard to relinquish legendary armor which isn’t giving better stats? I mean, if you don’t want to invest time and effort, just don’t do it. You can play any other content without having disadvantages. Hell, it’s even faster to exchange armor pieces than changing stats on the leggy armor plus putting in the right runes again.

It is hard if it is one of the last motivation to play the game you have left… Of course, I’m already close to letting go anyway. I like that leisure. At least I use to. But the changes make it harder and harder to motivate me…

Dunno what you what to blame me for. I never said Anet should stop developing content for PvP/WvW/RP/other PvE stuff. And nothing stops ppl of playing these things because there is an existence of raids.

Why such a poor and blatant straw man? I never blamed you about anything. I merely explained to you why your reply about the game not being one for me since I was a loner was quite out of place considering you are in fact the strong minority here that enjoy structured group content.

Yeah, I really don’t see your problem with raids here since every game mode has its right to exist.

Is it me or you just can’t read properly? I repeat again, I have no problem with raids.

You want a leggy armor for WvW? I can understand it but then stop coming into the raid forum blaming the raiding community etc. Get your WvW buddies together and make threads in the WvW forums & reddit. Make some big noise there, it would help much more!

Well, to be fair and to answer you in the same kind you do, you aren’t forced to read my posts (you already do not bother that much from what I can read) and can certainly abstain from replying you know…

Beside, the major reason this thread reappear without end is quite simple: too many keep invalidating legitimate frustrations.

So instead of seeing the topic slowly die, they feed it and renew the frustrations.

I can see why, and what is at stake that prevent the topic to go to rest, I’m sure you know too, but I’ll leave it at that for now.

Vinceman.4572:

That’s your own subjective classification tbh. Imho there are not one or two most important factors.

I guess you can argue it to a point, but I would reply 2 things to you here:

1) I don’t see you propose anything better.

2) Success in life, as well as in raid, is mainly going to be a matter of efforts. It is pretty rare to see people invest tons of time and energy into something they do not enjoy. The motivation for the carrot needs to be pretty strong to overcome this. If you do not invest time in something, no matter how talented you are, you won’t get any results.

And of course, it need to be possible for you to be were it matters when it matters. Of course you can tell your boss to put his job were the sun doesn’t shine because you are so willing to do raid every Monday night with a group you met, but most of us won’t cross that line for a leisure. And most group will also ask for a specific time commitment to accept you… bugger…

Sure, you can pug as a newby and organize practice groups yadayada. But, in all honesty, are you going to be willing to spend so much random time for something that isn’t your cup of tea to begin with (with the likely result of such groups on top of it)? And do you think pugging like that will help you gain positive experience that will improve your disposition toward that content? Me neither.

If you enjoy the content and can commit to a group schedule, skill and willingness will more than likely go up and the success you will ripe will reinforce everything. And so on and so forth.

Sorry, this content was announced as Challenging Group Content. kitten , it’s not content for a single player. If someone wants to play a single player MMO then maybe GW2 and others aren’t the right games for him/her.
I also think that the number of introverted computer gamers is not that high that it legitimates to serve all content to them on a silver plate, especially not in GW2 – what a silly argument. It’s simple, if you want to have it, do something for it and get over your timidness. Outside of gaming there are thousands of situations where you have to communicate with other people. Almost everybody is able to do so there too – I factor out people with diseases but that’s a different thing. Just a little example: Somebody in a wheel chair also isn’t able to play soccer with others but there are possibilities to play other sports stuff like wheel chair basketball.

I think I was not clear, so i’ll try and make it clearer…

Outside of the game lies a world that is made of obligations that indeed ask you to play along other humans in a structured fashion (my job ask me to help other humans btw and I like doing that). However, in a time and space of leisure, I might be less willing to compromise is the point I think you are missing (or just do not care grasping)…

Of course if for you the only variable in the equation is willingness to play, and that it is not subject to taste and time, it would make sense to view the wold the way you do… but as explained above, I do not agree with you and nor would my RL clients…

The thing is, people will do group content without too much fuss. It is structured and organized content that is the problem for them.

Just take a look at PVP or wvw… or PVE… everything in this game actually. If what you say is true, 80+% of ANET customers should take a hike and leave the game to the few PVE and wvw raiders as well as PVP pro league players. kitten you PVP yolo players, and wvw roamers or zergers. kitten you typical PVE player… Can ANET confirm that GW2 is not for us plz? I mean, I don’t want to be a burden to your real players…

Thank you.

You don’t need a fixed schedule. If you cannot get in a stale group to get all 13 weekly kills it’s possible to pug them. I do that every week before I run with my guild on Tuesday & Thursday. Even beginners can pug Escort, VG, Gorse, Mursaat Overseer and Samarog. For all of them there are many low LI groups besides the 200+ + Deimos KP bs groups.

There’s also that one hint: If you lack some of the required LIs, whisper to the commander that you are able to carry your own weight with some LI less. Some of my friends are doing it every week. They have been rejected rarely.

You really aren’t great at grasping the point. But to be fair, I suspect it’s convenient for you to play it that way. I see that I’m wasting time with you tho…

Yeah, and in the end it’s not as painful as you want to present here.

Of course… after all, you clearly seem to dislike raids and have trouble reliably getting into raid groups…

Astralporing.1957:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Actually Rednik new players can learn by themselves

Yes. Unfortunately, not everyone learns at the same rate, not everyone has the same potential, and not everyone likes the way of learning raids promote. And it just happens that for the majority of the players the process is either too lengthy, too painful, too unfun, or all of these together.
This has been true since first raids appeared in first MMO games, and GW2 is no exception. And the reason Raiders want it to stay that way is because most of them do not really want for the majority of players to be able to do them.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

every single one of your posts seems to imply that the average Gw2 isn’t all that smart since you always make statements like, “new players cannot learn by themselves.”

It has absolutely no relations to intelligence. It’s muscle memory and reaction time. And being smart won’t make the learning process faster even a little bit.

Not every player is the same. The effort every person needs to put in to be able to do raids is different. For some it will be really easy, for others it will be harder. Also, the best ways of learning it are also different – some woud do fine when thrown into the deep water (the model now), others would rather take it slow, step by step (or they might drown).

The two most important factor to raid success isn’t skill at all.

The very first factor is going to be: Do you enjoy coordinated group content or you prefer doing your own things when you play a MMO? If you do not like to interact with other human beings (shocking coming from introverted computer gamers right?), it starts really badly for you and it make investing time and energy a hell of a lot harder.

The next factor is going to be how available you are to commit to a fixed schedule. Not everyone can do this to the same extend and it makes raiding soooo much more easier and less frustrating.

If you have answered no to both of the above, it’s going to be painful to get that armor. Like, really painful…

ButterPeanut.9746:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I have nothing against skill requirement to get anything. However, why only through raid, a niche content? And why couldn’t they have been a lot more transparent about it when advertising it?

Raids niche is the fact that its challenging content…

They have been 100% clear that legendary armor will require raiding since its announcement before HoT launch. It has also been all over the forums, reddit, Dulfy, MMOgamer, etc for the past 18 months.

It was 100% clear that legendary armor would require raiding since before HoT. I had no problem about that. It was never clear, however, it would require more out of raid than map completion was required out of the old set. Do the collection and you unlock the precursor was more or less what I expected.

We can turn around the pot all days and argue back and forth about how legitimate ppl are to express frustration but… looking at how the argument exist on this board since raid were out and show no sign of respite, you have to wonder if maybe, just maybe, there isn’t something a tad legitimate about what people are mad about in all this. We aren’t all idiots. I mean, I might be, of course, since I make so many people laugh, but all of us? Let’s just say it is convenient to think so don’t you agree?

But, anyway, I’m done here since I think I’ve made my point crystal clear despite some less than honest posters not being able to read what I write with a modicum of intellectual honesty (not talking about you here btw).

So, to bring the point back on topic, I like the heavy armor model, but the two others not so much. Sadly, I main a light class…

ButterPeanut.9746:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

apharma.3741:

Yes, because gen 1 legendaries weren’t locked behind repetitively running around an open world mapping it right?
Legendary backpiece weren’t locked behind repeatedly doing PvP or Fractals right?

Like it or not you need 150 LI’s to craft it, at the moment you can get 13 a week, so that’s 12 weeks of running each encounter 12 times. Hardly that bad now, even if you take 3 hours to do a full clear it works out as 36 hours total, can you say that mapping isn’t just as boring, annoying and repetitive to others as you are claiming raids to be to you?

There are 25 zones to map and 6 cities, if we assume a swift speed of 1 hour per map and 30 mins for each city it’s 28 hours, which is every bit as mind numbing to people that detest the open world as those that dislike raids. I know you’re going to bring up 2 gifts of exploration but raids also gave you a full set of ascended armour for very little effort

New legendary weapons also require you to constantly repeat the same 4 maps over and over for map currencies and even worse dragon stand a ton for crystalline ore for those horrible ingots.

As for your final thing, once again the armour is the reward for doing the hardest content they planned for the game. It’s a reward for achieving something. If you don’t understand that concept then I dunno maybe gaming isn’t for you because most do use this structure of putting the best shiniest behind the hardest content.

What I found hilarious is you complaining you can’t commit to a set schedule as you have to be available to duck out at a moment’s notice. The raid format for GW2 punishes people in this situation far far less than most raids in other games as each raid is separated into 3 or 4 chunks that can be completed all at once or off and on over a week.

World map is nothing like LI. You had no repetition with map completion. You had to flag all once on a map and that was it. It was also no barrier save to boredom. The comparison is WAAAAAAAAAAY off.

As for Fractals and PVP, they did indeed changed the way it was done from gen 1, but players still had an options to get a back piece by going PVP or PVE. I did both. It was also far less repetitive to me since the currency you had to get for either wasn’t only obtainable in ONE way. It asked you to play that game mode and progress, not kill a boss or get nothing. A magnetite shard requirement would be closer to what was asked rather than LI.

As for the new weapons, it is true that they asked to redo the new maps ad-nauseam (I hated it too btw) but at least, again, the currency you needed wasn’t only obtainable via succeeding the meta of the map and only THAT precise way. ANYTHING on the map was advancing you in that regard.

As for what you still find hillarious, I think you laugh without understanding. Some weeks I’m bound to travel for days to where Internet or a gaming computer is not availble. And it’s not the same every week. I’m glad you have a different arrangement, but really, you might want to enjoy your situation rather than deny other’s RL imperatives by laughting at them.

At this point IDK why you even reply to me since you show zero openness to understand the point of view I express and basically tell me to suck it. I will continue to suck it. I’m too far to stop. But I will remember next expension if I’m still around.

I think the bottom line is with the pvp backpiece and now the armor, with HOT ANET moved in a direction where these Legendaries require some amount of skill and perseverance to acquire.

I like to think of it as the “skill versus time” graph. For the gen 1 and gen 2 legendary weapons, this is a linear graph. The more skill you have as a player (or group) the less time it takes overall to acquire them. (Or just buy the credit cards, which drives me INSANE…this should never have happened).

For the armor and arguably the early adopters of the pvp backpiece, the graph is exponential. At some point, if your skill is low enough (or group skill), then absolutely no amount of time will get you the legendary.

Now the argument is really whether or not you like this idea. Personally, this is the only legendary that I’m going for simply because of this fact. I never went for any legendary weapons because I hate mindless grind, but also when I see players who basically AFK in all content they do yet they have the most prestigious items in the game (which BTW give you no in game advantage), it makes them lose their value for me personally.

I have nothing against skill requirement to get anything. However, why only through raid, a niche content? And why couldn’t they have been a lot more transparent about it when advertising it?

apharma.3741:

Yes, because gen 1 legendaries weren’t locked behind repetitively running around an open world mapping it right?
Legendary backpiece weren’t locked behind repeatedly doing PvP or Fractals right?

Like it or not you need 150 LI’s to craft it, at the moment you can get 13 a week, so that’s 12 weeks of running each encounter 12 times. Hardly that bad now, even if you take 3 hours to do a full clear it works out as 36 hours total, can you say that mapping isn’t just as boring, annoying and repetitive to others as you are claiming raids to be to you?

There are 25 zones to map and 6 cities, if we assume a swift speed of 1 hour per map and 30 mins for each city it’s 28 hours, which is every bit as mind numbing to people that detest the open world as those that dislike raids. I know you’re going to bring up 2 gifts of exploration but raids also gave you a full set of ascended armour for very little effort

New legendary weapons also require you to constantly repeat the same 4 maps over and over for map currencies and even worse dragon stand a ton for crystalline ore for those horrible ingots.

As for your final thing, once again the armour is the reward for doing the hardest content they planned for the game. It’s a reward for achieving something. If you don’t understand that concept then I dunno maybe gaming isn’t for you because most do use this structure of putting the best shiniest behind the hardest content.

What I found hilarious is you complaining you can’t commit to a set schedule as you have to be available to duck out at a moment’s notice. The raid format for GW2 punishes people in this situation far far less than most raids in other games as each raid is separated into 3 or 4 chunks that can be completed all at once or off and on over a week.

World map is nothing like LI. You had no repetition with map completion. You had to flag all once on a map and that was it. It was also no barrier save to boredom. The comparison is WAAAAAAAAAAY off.

As for Fractals and PVP, they did indeed changed the way it was done from gen 1, but players still had an options to get a back piece by going PVP or PVE. I did both. It was also far less repetitive to me since the currency you had to get for either wasn’t only obtainable in ONE way. It asked you to play that game mode and progress, not kill a boss or get nothing. A magnetite shard requirement would be closer to what was asked rather than LI.

As for the new weapons, it is true that they asked to redo the new maps ad-nauseam (I hated it too btw) but at least, again, the currency you needed wasn’t only obtainable via succeeding the meta of the map and only THAT precise way. ANYTHING on the map was advancing you in that regard.

As for what you still find hillarious, I think you laugh without understanding. Some weeks I’m bound to travel for days to where Internet or a gaming computer is not availble. And it’s not the same every week. I’m glad you have a different arrangement, but really, you might want to enjoy your situation rather than deny other’s RL imperatives by laughting at them.

At this point IDK why you even reply to me since you show zero openness to understand the point of view I express and basically tell me to suck it. I will continue to suck it. I’m too far to stop. But I will remember next expension if I’m still around.

Feanor.2358:

Like The Ascension isn’t tied to PvP and Ad Infinitum isn’t tied to Fractals of the Mists? Both require you to play a LOT in their respective modes.

The point is, I have an option if I want a back item between two very different game modes. Not so for armour.

Feanor.2358:

The funny thing is, death in raids is mostly relevant on encounters where you face a single boss. For instance, I remember clearing Escort with only 3 surviving members of the group. It just doesn’t matter if someone dies, because the mobs are trash. The established strategy also includes a mesmer skipping the mobs in the cave in order to port additional members to the first tower. Yeah, you certainly can increase the density of the mobs there to prevent that, but… should you? How is fighting a throng of faceless mobs using generic attacks interesting or fun?

Yes, but my point is, it could be relevant for all that is inside. Not just the boss.

More importantly, of course, it is my personnal taste. People who like it better like it is do not have to feel bad about it. I’m merely sharing my frustration (even greater now that I see the skin I drag myself toward). I will continue to drag myself by joinning groups left and right at my own pace and paying a few runs here and there to accelerate things, but it’s no fun in the context I play and with the preferences I have is all.

They said it was tied to raids, I don’t recall anyone saying anything about a single recipe or only having to do it only once. In fact if you actually stopped and thought about it why would any company make a raid you run once for the best stuff in the game? The concept of doing that is really poor and that’s even if you’ve never done a raid before, those that have done raids before know they’re designed to be rerun multiple times to get gear.

If you also stop to look at how things were before, legendaries were never so deeply tied to a single part of the game. Expecting to have to do raids to get the armor in the process was one thing. Having to redo and redo them with boss kill 150 times was not what was said or even close to be expected. There is being tied, and there is being TIED.

Raid, to me, was intented for a niche of people who would like that content for what it is, while the armor, as advertized, was obviously going to be interresting for a LOT larger audience. It was the selling point for me, not raids. To me, it made no sense whatsoever to coerce people into something they knew before hand would not be interresting save for a relative minority. If you want to aggravate your customers, well played.

I find it hilarious you’re complaining that you can’t commit to fixed schedules but also complaining that they’re just a string of bosses when that kind of format makes it a lot easier to hop in and out of at a moment’s notice. If raids were any different I guarantee you would have much more trouble as you wouldn’t be able to hop in and out as you need to and would possibly have to commit to a few hours before getting anything.

They’re not tying a fancy skin to content, they are tying legendary gear to the hardest content that they are designing.

I try hard to understand what you find hilarious. How is my complain regarding schedules related to my critic of the content? It’s but one more element explaning why it is aggravating for someone like me who was aiming for that armor even before the expension was available.

I’m not saying ppl have no right to love that content and that they should not have unique stuff. I’m saying “I” don’t like that content for the reasons I gave. I’m also of the opinion, that locking a selling point of your expansion exlusively behind a niche content is not a masterful move. A skin, ok, but not a legendary armor. At least give one more road toward a different set if you plan it like that is what I say.

Feanor.2358:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I disagree here. Trash mobs are trash if they are not keeping you on your toes. It doesn’t help if you can avoid them too easily (AKA stealth). When you are in constant danger of aggroing too much, and there is a consequence to dying, the “trash” are a very effective way to make your progression to the end satisfying while providing a sense of immersion (yeah, I part of that weird group of ppl that like immersion in a game, book or movie).

That’s a very rare case. And it usually ends up in people finding ways to avoid these mobs. See the established strategies for running Caudecus’ Manor or how you skip mobs in Arah. In my opinion raids do well on this front, focusing on epic bosses which feel ultimately satisfying when defeated, especially for the first time.

I’m the kind who hardly ever want to skip content and who did dungeons to death… all of them (and I still do from time to time). I do not mind killing Seamus Sureshot every single time. I, of course, do not because the ppl in the group only care about farming and I follow because it’s better than not doing the dungeon at all.

But still, remove stealth and put more efficient choke points and it becomes a lot harder to skip everything with impunity. Beside, if you give the mob a chance to drop something interresting and unique, like chaos or zodiac weapons in GW1 for example, and the farmers might not always want to skip these mobs. Also, making death relevant as opposed to a mere delay and ppl will think twice before trying to skip all if the risk is high. Raid already prevent you from resing, so death is already relevant in that you loose all your progress when you wipe in that context. Only something relevant is missing on your way toward the boss.

That content is important to me mainly because it brings an additional possibility of chaos you have to adapt to rather than mostly rote learn a rotation very well along with a fight mechanic. The trash mobs can keeps you on your toes if it is well exploited and ask you to adapt to how things evolves along the way to the boss.

Adaption is what make pvp a superior skill exercice IMO (I’m no pvp pro btw). You can’t rote win a fight in pvp. The player in front of you adapt to how you try to adapt. It is dynamic and if you want a challenge that isn’t always the same without trash mob, pvp is the way to go. Raid is more the domain of the control freaks (min/maxers), and I’m no such player. Specially when in a team setting.

Azoqu.8917:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

When they initially said the recipe to get legendary armour would be inside raids, I thought you needed raid to unlock the recipe and then could proceed as usual for the legendary. The other legendaries, even the new ones, offered a lot more variety in currencies requirement and ways to get them.

While I can understand the frustration with having to do the raids for ~2.5 months in order to get enough insights to make a full set, it is about one of the only ways to make it require actual skill to aquire. Very few people will be willing to buy up 150 insights in order to make a full set but buying 1 kill per boss is totally doable. If anything, the very last heart should have been rewarded for unlocking every skin/mini from the raids and then the armor would truly be just for the raiders.

The point I was making tho was that the “ties” to the raid we were advertised, were WAY deeper than anything else seen before.

As it is, I can build 2 pieces of armour. I’ve gotten my LI by pugging easier raids or by paying for unlocking more difficult collection items. I would prefer just playing like I do all other part of the game, but since I depend on others, and my work IRL may ask me to be unavailable from week to week, it is harder to find and keep doing raid with a fixed group and schedule. And it doesn’t help that I do not find the content that great either.

Beside, the raids ended-up being something I was not expecting at all: a boss chain. It is not fun to everyone at all, nor as accessible for all since dependent on other players hugely favoring ppl who can commit to fixed schedules.

Compared to other games, GW2 raids are amazing because they have very little trash mobs. There is a reason they are called trash by the way, and it’s not because they are fun to kill.

I disagree here. Trash mobs are trash if they are not keeping you on your toes. It doesn’t help if you can avoid them too easily (AKA stealth). When you are in constant danger of aggroing too much, and there is a consequence to dying, the “trash” are a very effective way to make your progression to the end satisfying while providing a sense of immersion (yeah, I part of that weird group of ppl that like immersion in a game, book or movie).

I understand giving a unique skin to a game content, but not the legendary functionality.

I can understand this complaint if you are a WvW player, and I totally agree that when another set rolls around to give it to them. If you are a PvP player, why do you actually need armor to begin with? If you are a PvE player, raids are PvE by the way and pretty much the only place you’d have to swap stats anyhow.

Well, bingo! I am, or was, a WvW player first by far. For me it is, was, the best game content by far and the biggest lost opportunity of this game.

apharma.3741:

Oldirtbeard.9834:

Vinceman.4572:

Jski.6180:

Shame its raids only well that we know of…. Is this game become raids wars?

You must be new to the game, it was well known before that raids are the entrance to legendary armor…more than a year now.

You must be newer to the game than me because legendaries have been around longer than raids and it was pretty common knowledge that you didn’t need LIs from raids to make these legendaries because Raids did not exist (back in the good old days).

You must have problems reading, may I suggest an eye check, it’s free for the older generation. He was talking specifically about legendary armour, which ANet announced was going to be tied to raids, I believe they even said it during the big Heart of Thorns streams they did to advertise it.

That’s without pointing out what I thought was blatantly obvious, legendaries are tied to content even in the “good old days”. It was tied to map completion with gen 1 legendary weapons, tied to Heart of Thorns and those currencies with gen 2 and finally raids with the armour.

To be fair, it is one thing to allude ties to raid and quite another condemning you to repeat them ad-nauseam.

When they initially said the recipe to get legendary armour would be inside raids, I thought you needed raid to unlock the recipe and then could proceed as usual for the legendary. The other legendaries, even the new ones, offered a lot more variety in currencies requirement and ways to get them.

Beside, the raids ended-up being something I was not expecting at all: a boss chain. It is not fun to everyone at all, nor as accessible for all since dependent on other players hugely favoring ppl who can commit to fixed schedules.

I understand giving a unique skin to a game content, but not the legendary functionality.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

zealex.9410:

Astralporing.1957:

Rune solution is simple, but workable and actually useful. More the pity that they haven’t even mentioned anything about a possibility of legendary armor for nonraiders.

I would love my self some fractal themed legendary armor but i feel more than any game mode wvw needs it first.

I don’t WvW but this mode was a defining pinnacle for GW2 and I agree if any one deserves Lego Armor it’s those guys.

Agree with this a lot.

Azoqu.8917:

Is anyone else sad that the final step for Legendary armor is just talking to something in a cleared Wing 4? I personally was really hoping for a collection to be added for getting all skins/minis from the raids and completing it would give you the final heart. Mainly wanting that so that anyone with the armor would be truly a raider and not just a 3 months and done person.

The day they make a legendary armor accessible outside raid is the day you can ask for something this stupid.

If they ever ask for such a crazy thing for the last component, I will pull the plug on this game for good without regret.

They already aggravated a lot of ppl with the decision of making raid the only way to a legendary armor. I’m dragging myself toward that armor despite not enjoying the content because its that or not getting the main thing that made me buy the expansion in the first place…

I suggest they don’t push their luck…

savacli.8172:

A fan of the light armor…..and probably shouldn’t have procrastinated on my part with those provisioner token

/LeSigh

I hate the light armor. It’s a fanged butt cape. I will probably still go for it because my main is an ele and I want the functionality, but I’m really disapointed.

CaptainVanguard.4925:

Is Accessiblity.

Getting into raiding once your in it isnt hard, once you’ve found a good static, or people good enough to get you into a decent training guild/training run regieme you can genuinely get through raiding fine, the difficulty isnt as hard as some might be afraid to think it is.

Id say the challenge of most raids is on par with normal mode world of warcraft for those familiar with the concept, as a comparison for refference, its accessably dooable and hell some of it can even be done with mostly exotics though id still recommend having at least ascended armor/weapons before investing into raiding, maybe a backpack too.

I would however admit, that it took me a while, like, a whole year and then some to finally “find” someone willing to take me on, Im not a confident person, the group im with though, they’re awesome, some of the best, genuinley.

And as times gone on, we went from clearing maybe 3 bosses a week, to literally clearing the entire raid, a week.

We’ve even recently done CM Cairne, I got the eternal title, working on slip-slub, is it achievable? Yes, is it hard, quite probably yes.

Now I will say again, the accessiblity can be demanding, I find alot of pug raids demand a rediculas number of LI’s even if you clearly have done some of the harder achievements in the game which honestly makes it obnoxious.

My proposal to A-net is something akin to a soft LFR like wow. My suggestion essentially is this, a tutorial mode much like how everyone keeps asking for story mode.

Tutorial mode would essentially be the beginners guide to raiding, much like how we have CM and current normal, tutorial mode would be designed for people more interested in the story, but also be designed to give you a much “much” easier time getting “into” raids for the first time.

My idea for this works as follows:

Tutorial motes are similar to challenge motes, but instead of blue glowing motes, you get a green glowing one.

When tutorial mode is activated, the damage the boss deals is significantly nerfed, and the boss enrage timer is made alot longer.

However, in this mode it is literally impossible to get raid rewards from the bosses, but you can however get mastery contribution, aswell as a very MINOR amount of mag shards, were talking maybe…, 2-3 per boss.

Some might say this would make raiding completley Irelevent but I disagree, this is “the” compramise raiding needs, because now, you have no excuse. Accessability via tutorial mode would give people the means to get into raiding, much like infantile mode to SAB. It would be designed to help you START the experience, and help unfamilair players do the bosses for the first time.

Tutorial mode would also extend to the training ground, which could be accessed now een without a squad, tutorial mode basically allows you to familiarize yourself with your class, and the general role your speicalizatoin favors such as Chronomancer Tanks, Druid Healers, etc etc.

By training people with an automated system we can essentially remove the need for trianing groups and eventially have everyone more or less ready for raiding in no time. I say keep the current difficulty, and CM, but add a training mode, to help new players who want to get into raiding for the first time.

You are perfectly right about the major issue being accessibility. If you can rely on a steady group, raids will be fine. However, if you can’t commit to any fixed schedule because your job prevent you to, raids are going to be a major pain in the ass more often than not.

I like the idea you propose. I think it might help without lessening the difficulty.

zealex.9410:

How do you guys find the sets? Tbh im surpise the charr hasnt been impaled by the spikes on the armor. Im actually surprised on how decent to good light armor looks. As for the medioum… its a trenchcoat so i didnt have high hopes from the get go.

The heavy armor looks good, but the medium and light not so much tbh.

CptAurellian.9537:

They said that GW2 raids are by far easier and less complex. That’s what I would have expected anyway, as GW2’s combat system still has some rather severe limitations and its raids are 10 man compared to 20 in WS.

20 men raid!!? Aaarrrrg! I want to puke just thinking about the hassle of forming such groups.

Khyan.7039:

I don’t really care about the difficulty tbh, however, I think it’s not intented by the raid team to surpass an enrage timer for so long in some bosses. I think some bosses are fine but others need to be balanced.

Maybe I was a bit too harsh to say something like instawipe at 0, but I personally think some bosses enrage should be a bit more punishing compared to others kind of enrage available. I mean, you should survive a bit with a team, and it’s fine. But you shouldn’t survive while being totally alone.

If the clear intention was for the timer to not be surpassed they would have deployed the raid otherwise. I mean, you do not propose a clear option like this and then pretend it was not an intended possibility. It make no sense.

The timer is just there to provide an incentive to deal with the encounter as fast as possible… unless, ofc, you crave an additional challenge…

The colors of fireballs ofc!

Khyan.7039:

As said the title, enrage in raid is not punishful at all. When the timer hit 0, it should insta wipe all the squad with an attack or something.

Some bosses can be solo’ed or cheesed because the enrage timer is too generous. People don’t care about enrage timer at some bosses like Cairn, Vale guardian, and such because they can outheal or avoid the damage. It shouldn’t possible for me to be alive with my druid/temp aura at Cairn during the enrage (and can solo it even if it takes time), it shouldn’t happen and it’s not even hard to do.

If you want the raid to be the content the “more challenging”, think about better enrage mechanics. Take an example of FFXIV where enrage kill instantly the raid when it hit 0.

Raids are casual enough no need to make it even easier with trash and useless enrage time.

What are you really complaining about here?

If it is because you crave a greater challenge then play something less forgiving than the build you run and you should feel an instantaneous difference in challenge. You have come to the natural evolution of playing something long enough. The crushing majority of the community already find raids way too hostile for their taste in every sense the word can take. Why should a wall to wall solution be used if the problem can be solved by changing something on you alone?

However, if it is because your satisfaction depends on others failing so you feel like you belong into something special, I’m not too sure what kind of sympathy you expect to get from people here…

Does people triumphing over the baddy happen so often after the timer is spent? I’ve personally saw it once, maybe twice and it is ok. I mean, if it wasn’t suppose to be possible to manage a win past the timer why even bother with it? It seems you want to tackle something that touches an insignificant portion of the population an insignificant amount of time with a universal black and white solution to either protect your challenge or your ego…

IMO, if anything should be done on a more universal level it has to be regarding builds not timer consequences. Stupid perma stealth gimmick comes to mind as it is a plague that touches far more than just one game mode…

Assic.2746:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Why does Open world Pve have a monopoly on Legendary weapons locked behind it? Why does only that gamemode get this utility?

Only if they give Legendary Weapons through Other means. Right now each game mode sans WvW has at least 1 Legendary exclusive to it, with open world Pve having the biggest monopoly.

But WvW is PvE… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tatYahtANC0

Bwhahahahaha!

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I started the mastery track right before I entered Bitterfrost Frontier. I had it maxed in about 2 hours and I hadn’t even gotten to the final story instance yet. Just running around the zone doing stuff.

^

flog.3485:

Astralporing.1957:

flog.3485:

Why would a casual go into swapping stats if the game barely requires a player to switch stats in general………..

Useful when switching between open world pve and WvW. Sometimes also for manipulating aggro in story instances for achievement reasons (had to do it the hard way few times already).
And, unlike hardcores, casuals will not mind having suboptimal runeset on such an armor.

People usually don’t use stat switching, because they have no means to do so. Not because it wouldn’t be useful to them.

But if you are into wvw, don’t you think you also need to change runes ? And if so, don’t you think it is also cheaper to just get another armor only for wvw with a few changes of trinkets and earrings ? Personally when going into wvw I don’t switch armor stats. I still have my exotic set with ascended earrings and trinkets and only change my weapons (not stats) and traits and the same happens for personal story achievements….I kinda feel baffled by your stat switching adjustment comment. I guess it is also a matter of what classes you play

For my part, what I like about the legendary functionality is the amount of inventory space you save when you have equipment that carry all possible stat options.

As I am, I carry 3 ascended sets of armor. That mean 18 inventory slots for only 3 kind of stats vs 6 inventory slots for ALL possible options. See where the interest is?

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Oh really go try to buy the precursor to Chuka and Champawat, or HOPE, or Nevermore or Endeavor, or Shooshadoo again no options and buying a precursor on the TP is not an option for the other game modes not having options to Legendaries. So your argument is completely evacuated, there are no options besides Open World Pve for Legendary weapons even more so for the HoT weapons.

You really do not read/listen well do you?

OPTIONS to get the functionality of the legendary is what is discussed here.

You can buy any legendary weapon precursor you want and enjoy the functionality of it being a legendary. Only the HoT skins are locked behind the crafting collections, not the legendary weapon functionality.

You want a legendary staff? Do the part of the game you want and buy the Legend. Same for the short bow, the pistol, the axe and the shield. The skin is locked, but not the legendary property of the weapon. There is a HUGE difference. Read plz.

Again why should I have to buy it off the trade post and not be able to make it in any game mode I choose?

Technically speaking, this is something all people run in to at some point. Legendaries are not just ‘open world pve’ and many of their components now have options they didn’t have before via reward tracks..

Gift of Battle? WvW reward track only. You have to go play wvw regardless.

Gift of Glory? 250 Shards of Glory – PvP or TP

Gift of Battle? 250 Memories of Battle – WvW or TP

Weapon specific gift? Dungeon grind, WvW reward track grind, PvP reward track grind. No TP option at all.

Mystic clovers are no longer locked behind flushing materials down the Mystic Forge. They can be gotten through several WvW and PvP reward tracks.

Obi shards are no longer locked behind karma. They can be obtained from an assortment of map currencies as well as from assorted reward tracks in both WvW and PvP as well.

Even materials can be obtained, with enough time, completely through WvW and PvP reward tracks for the other components.

The only thing that remains truly ‘locked’ to open world pve are the map exploration gifts.

Yes, the collections require you to do an assortment of events and find an assortment of items, but you have to do map completion anyway, so meh….

But at least all of these are easily puggable at any moment of the day without any problem whatsoever. No heavy logistic. You just go and play.

For map completion, you do not even need anybody at all.

For legendary gifts you do a dungeon 7 times and you are done with the gift. It’s nothing like 150 raid bosses (ffs who thought this was a good idea).

For WvW you do a track once while zerging and poping your boosters and it’s a joke.

The rest can be TPed.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Oh really go try to buy the precursor to Chuka and Champawat, or HOPE, or Nevermore or Endeavor, or Shooshadoo again no options and buying a precursor on the TP is not an option for the other game modes not having options to Legendaries. So your argument is completely evacuated, there are no options besides Open World Pve for Legendary weapons even more so for the HoT weapons.

You really do not read/listen well do you?

OPTIONS to get the functionality of the legendary is what is discussed here.

You can buy any legendary weapon precursor you want and enjoy the functionality of it being a legendary. Only the HoT skins are locked behind the crafting collections, not the legendary weapon functionality.

You want a legendary staff? Do the part of the game you want and buy the Legend. Same for the short bow, the pistol, the axe and the shield. The skin is locked, but not the legendary property of the weapon. There is a HUGE difference. Read plz.

Again why should I have to buy it off the trade post and not be able to make it in any game mode I choose? Having to rely on another player to craft it or be willing to sell the precursor? It still doesn’t change the fact that all Legendary weapons are exclusively locked behind Open World Pve. Learn to read and you said again you can get any legendary from the TP I pointed out you cannot, yes you can get the functionality but Legendary is more than the Functionality, guess what nothing is stopping you in game from getting the Envoy armor besides yourself so you always have the Option to do Raids and work towards it.

I did read what you said, but it was beside the point being made was the problem. It still is.

What was asked was OPTIONS to get the legendary functionality. ANY options, including other game modes requiring many players or not. It is utterly beside the point being made that you can or not make it via crafting method in any game mode. All that is asked for is that at least ONE other option for a legendary armor exist. That is all. Not unreasonable at all.

EVERY other legendary offer more than one game mode option to get the functionality. Armor doesn’t.

The TP is not another Gamemode, and is not a valid option, again Legendary weapons are exclusively locked behind Open world Pve until they give other game modes the option to acquire Legendary weapons then Legenday armor should stay behind Raids.

Players have asked since launch that Legendaries be available in all game modes mainly WvW and Pvp players asking it fell on deaf ears and a lot of Pve players spoke out against these options but now the other shoe has dropped.

So until the other gamemodes get the Legendary items as an actual option armor should be safely tucked behind Raids.

The TP is not another game mode, true, but it can be used to achieve precursor acquisition while playing ANY game mode.