Guild Wars 2

Kimiku.1652:

My post is a slice of WvW life.

Our server was just making the best of the situation we were handed, as we did when we were on the other side of the coin. We definitely prefer better matches, but we found a way to enjoy ourselves when facing adversity. Yes, being randomly bumped down is adversity. Being matched with servers that don’t want to have battles is adversity and we faced the other kind of adversity, where we were being totally trampled and we still made it fun. I switched to SBI while SBI was being trampled…I actually went out and bought a gem card and paid for a transfer to a server that was taking a bit of a beating because it is fun to play with these people. – Thank you, again to those on Tier 4 who, during the match up with SBI, gave us some good fights. As I said above, you surprised us sometimes.

Please stop trying to stomp out anything that resembles happiness or fun in your attempt to appear morally superior to all human kind.

That’s refreshing to read someone enjoying our resistance. It’s so hard to keep on fighting when the odds are so ridiculously stacked against you. There was no hope of victory save in each moment played for the fun of trying to beat impossible odds.

Jeknar.6184:

Norbe.7630:

hmmmm, my former guild transferred on Ebay pre linking, mind you, thats the biggest WvW guild of GoM at that time, got kicked out for staying on GoM, so i think DH and EBay just having a slumber party on WvW

And what guild it would be…?

I’m also interested in knowing…

I hate these profession based assumptions. It imply that all builds within a profession are equal when the fact of the matter is they are not by a long shot.

Such ranking will always be meaningless unless you precise a build and a context. Then, and only then, will it begin to make sense.

Jeknar.6184:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

michelada.2947:

The 3 servers alpine BL empty , meanwhile EBG with a queue of 40-50 ppl.
Didn’t people were crying about bringing alpine BL back ? , and now that we have it no one plays on those maps , did the people finally realize that desert BL wasn’t that bad?

On what server is this even remotely true?

Must be EU problems… Here on T4 NA we have all 4 maps empty (not just the BLs), except for the green team presence.

Our enemies BL are not empty though.

michelada.2947:

The 3 servers alpine BL empty , meanwhile EBG with a queue of 40-50 ppl.
Didn’t people were crying about bringing alpine BL back ? , and now that we have it no one plays on those maps , did the people finally realize that desert BL wasn’t that bad?

On what server is this even remotely true?

Nila.7813:

:)
http://imgur.com/a/0kXtx

HOW DO I LOSE THIS

These people must be doing NOTHING

I got prestige 10 last season, and i’m being matched with dogkitten. Thanks you anet.

Well, the match is close tho.

katniss.6735:

Re: Signet heal/ more reason to hate warriors

Warrior Healing Signet
Passive: Regenerate health.
Active: Heal yourself, and grant yourself resistance (20s cd)

Healing: 3,275 (0.5)?
Healing Signet: 382 (0.05)? Heal
Resistance (6s): Conditions currently on you are ineffective; stacks duration.
Interval: 1s

Elementalist Signet of Restoration

Passive: Grants health every time you cast a spell.
Active: Heal yourself. (25s cd)

Healing: 3,275 (0.5)?
Healing per Cast: 202 (0.1)?

OP vs GARBAGE

I think the reasoning behind that difference was always that we “the eles” have more skills to use on our bars and that to compensate other professions have better versions of everything we have. They have quality, we have quantity.

But, yeah, I think they went overboard on some skills for sure.

Being grouped with badies isn’t much of a problem if the opponents also has them to balance things out. The season’s problem is going to be progression on the ladder if the aim is an overall 50/50 w/l.

4 seasons later Anet still hasn’t decide to whom the seasons are for: the casual who would like a reward track or the hard core who want a real division system.

Wait whaaat!!?

Burn.5401:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

…

I don’t think I understood what your point was but players should be able to carry their own weight in matches, period. You shouldn’t be expected to “carry the moon on your shoulders” which is what being paired with players way below your level is. The league is designed with tiers in mind. I don’t care if pro player X is way better than me and gets matched against me. That means I don’t belong in his tier and should fall down the ladder. If you only want 50/50 matches, remove all divisions like in unranked and you’re free to match only based on MMR. Divisions and 50/50 matches are a direct contradiction.

I agree entirely that 50/50 matches are in direct contradiction with division. I even say as much. I also entirely agree that players should carry their own weight and that stronger player should be higher than weaker players.

My problem was, is and will always be, using a metric, any metric, to actively favor an expected outcome rather than witness the outcome and record the result. Ofc if you arrange thing to end the way you predict they will usually do but that is hardly fair or because you are good or bad.

Also, we never had any division to begin with since Anet refuses to let ppl fall below ruby so to speak which create a gigantic clusterkitten were some players would be parsec away in skills and yet given the same rating with all that goes along it all in terms of MM and fun for them. If you win matches were you could have sleep on it, chances are your skills aren’t what made any difference. You were, after all, sleeping and yet the system might think (depending on what was on the other team etc.) you are such an awesome players for sleeping like that instead of thinking something was wrong here. And the opposite is also true (I’ve experiment both and my skill is the exact same in both instance).

So, bottom line, we can either have a competition between TEAMS (with a rating that belong to THAT team, not the players in it) until a victorious team emerge on the top or enjoy a reward track with fun matches. But, please, let’s stop with the ridiculous compromises that fail at both.

katniss.6735:

I want to do 15k+ damage meteors again! I have actual zerker gear, not wimpy marauders.

I play d/f minstrel troll ele in wvw because that’s how horrible this class is.

Hang head in shame…

Burn.5401:

morrolan.9608:

Burn.5401:

So we’ll again have people on a skill scale from 1 to 10 sitting in the same pip range fighting completely different players and call it “prestigious”. I don’t really understand who you’re catering to with bringing back this unfair system?

How was it fair to have teams with significantly different mmrs playing against each other as in S2 and 3? The current system at least makes it fairer for the average player.

It was fair because players end up where they belong for the most part. A player with 3kMMR should be able to blowout someone with 2kMMR in his pip range and put him where he belongs. (which is probably not in the next 5 tiers currently) When he falls down to the tier that represents his actual skill he will face opponents of similar level. The divisions are meaningless if players are matched only based on their MMR shouldn’tand not tier progression. It is not “fairer for the average player”, it is EASIER. Top players be facing only other top players in Sapphire when someone that tanked his MMR is having an easy way through the whole of ruby for example.

But that is NOT fair to let the metric talk instead of the deeds. It’s convenient, it’s fun if you like free lunches but it’s certainly not fair. How can providing different fighting conditions based on MMR be fair?

If you should win then just kittening do it rather than expect a free pass. Pull yourself from the measly masses like the rest of us. Doubly so for those who think they can carry the moon on their shoulders.

I see players who say they want to play with and against players of their own strength but hardly ever could in season 2 and 3 anyway… even in legendary… Yet, they miss these seasons. I question if it’s really fair fights they crave or an easy ego fix…

Season 1 idea was bad because they were/are aiming for 50/50 win ratio instead of 50/50 odds of winning on each single match (which is what makes any matches fun). Sure it screw what division means because it clearly become a reward track but then again s2 and 3 where barely better if at all in that regard since manufacturing self-fulfilling prophecies anyway.

The season ranks will never mean squat until only stable registered team are admitted in the competition and fight until a victor stand atop the pyramid of the participants. So since you can’t have a competition you might as well do a reward track while having fun fights…

Seth Moonshadow.2710:

IIRC Wooden Potatoes put out a video showing that Tyria 3D found a Guild Wars 2 wire frame map of FoW including each of the areas. Will it be a reality? Who knows, but Anet tends to support popular player requests and FoW/UW have been requested a lot. So we can only hope and wait to see

I’ll look it up on his channel then. I’m very curious about that.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

Having players around you have fun with makes the overwhelming wins & loses seem inconsequential (because they are).

As for our SF and DH opponents. Being outnumbered is a pain, we know all to well. Hang in there, it won’t last. Keep being tenacious like this SF ele a couple nights ago that kept coming to SW camp to charge into two of us standing in there. It just kept getting melted over and over again. He/she did this for over an hour. It was surreal.

Too true. I’m still finding a lot of fun despite being horribly steamrolled 90% of the time number-wise (I’m on DH). The game mode is but a way to share stories and frustration with ppl you enjoy being with and we find our victories, however small, where we can..

As an aside I used to be exactly like that ele when I began playing WvW. We sure could use more people who aren’t solely motivated by loot bags and karma but by impossible odds they want to beat anyway.

Varezenem.2813:

cyclop.5934:

Little off topic. No special title this season or it is just me?

Just you. It’s “Farming Legend”.

I think “Legendary slow learner” would fit the bill at this point. You have to be pretty slow to still expect something different out of pvp seasons after 4 seasons where the sames mistakes are made….

Hexinx.1872:

Skynet.7201:

I have a GREAT idea.

Remove the tactivators entirely.

You’re welcome.

+1

++1

Khisanth.2948:

Jerus.4350:

I wouldn’t say fool, but nostalgic certainly. I think any older gamer can look back with fondness on all the stuff they pushed their way through. But, if we were given that same thing now we’d hate it.

Punishment in general has been removed as much as possible. In general encounters are kept at a <20min goal. And it’s not just ANet but every game I can think of that I’ve played past like 2010. Having short stints that can be failed without reprocussion just allows a more casual (note, actual definition of casual, not the gaming term to mean inexperienced player) playstyle.

Personally I love the change. Being locked into a 5 hour raid is something I just can’t/don’t want to do anymore. But, I can still look back with good memories of it.

Fondness? Hardly … “oh look stupid suicidal NPC got itself killed and everyone gets kicked out”

This was indeed a frustrating part of that kind of content.

I like to play what need a lot of active play to survive and doesn’t rely on spamming 1111111.

I dislike encounters with builds that can be summed like: invul, invul, invul, block, block, block, evade, evade, evade, dodge, dodge… stealth… followed by what seems like a 5 sec window to attack them when they emerge from stealth before they rinse and repeat all the BS above. It get worst when half of it is auto-triggered…

IDK how ppl stand playing that. It has to be so boring to ride a bike you can’t fall of because it’s has 8 wheels and 3 spare chutes on it… The adrenaline must be flowing for sure…

Cynz.9437:

win loss win loss win loss win loss win loss, every match is one sided, gotta love forced 50% w/l ratio :/

IDK why they go for a force 50% win ratio. All they should care for is giving overall equal odds of winning each individual matches not overcompensate wins or losses.

TheFamster.7806:

Light Of The Abyss.5927:

This always happens at the beginning of seasons. Everyone is making their way to the division that they belong in. You can’t expect not to get placed against people better than you at this point.

IF people were better than me and I was getting stomped I’d be okay with that. What I am not okay with is I’m facing bad players who i can easily win even numbered fights but my teammates are simply worse than my opponents so I am forced to lose. Basically because of my above average MMR I am being punished into carrying players that were going to lose the match anyway and getting my time and effort wasted

This, so much this.

Jourdelune.7456:

Elegie.3620:

I’ve just started soloQ ranked games, and so far the match making seems a bit strange. The games are close, but the disparity between the levels of the player is enormous. This is important, because the individual level of players can completely influence the outcome of the game, way more than any other parameter.

The way this level is currently assessed is possibly flawed. I would suggest, at the very least, to include the total number of games played in PvP, to separate beginner players (say between 0-100 games), intermediate players (100-200) and the rest (standard matchmaking).

Win ratio means more than game played.

5k games with 40% win, shows something.
2k games with 60% win, shows something different.

But it’s not enough. If you have 60% but made it on noobs, it’s not like having 40% but played only versus top 100 players.

So, number of games + win ratio + weight of wins/lost versus ranking.

This was in the formula into 2014 leaderboard system to “rank” people up.

The 2013 editions didn’t consider number of games.

I’ll agree with that as long as:

1) The player rating is associate with a stable team. The win ratio is, all things being equal, 20% yours not 100% while the number of hours played is 100% yours.

2)The MM isn’t manufacturing win ratio in some way leading to validation of what it expect rather than objectively registering a fact all things being equal.

I still mostly play the same old glass staff (air/water/tempest; cantrips; zerk; strength runes etc.) that I use for all purpose (blob, scout, roaming solo or not). It is fun, versatile and challenging, hence why I still love it.

RIP my ele I guess. Not so much because they are factually bad but because no matter what my gaming experience with one will be tainted by hate and fear of loosing matches.

If I play well I’ll be tolerated with ppl thinking I was lucky. If my team loose I’ll be the designated scapegoat.

That’s a lot to inflict upon myself considering I play for fun first.

Elegie.3620:

I’ve just started soloQ ranked games, and so far the match making seems a bit strange. The games are close, but the disparity between the levels of the player is enormous. This is important, because the individual level of players can completely influence the outcome of the game, way more than any other parameter.

The games are close despite the disparity between subjective player skill level and yet you think it’s the biggest variable…

What are the other parameters you are alluding to and why do you think the most important parameter show such a little impact (game still being close despite that).

The way this level is currently assessed is possibly flawed. I would suggest, at the very least, to include the total number of games played in PvP, to separate beginner players (say between 0-100 games), intermediate players (100-200) and the rest (standard matchmaking).

I agree totally with you here. Number of games should be used to help differentiate average rating for experienced players from average rating from new players. The difference is obvious too often despite the rating being the same.

XGhoul.7426:

Spartacus.3192:

Solo queuers are even more cannon fodder than they were in previous seasons.

RIP

S1 matchmaking was always team favored compared to S2/S3 being really soloq favored (playing with more people was detrimental), I don’t know why anyone is surprised now that we’ve gone back to S1 matchmaking why it wouldn’t be team favored again.

Only true if you had a good MMR otherwise you might want to rewrite that.

Ardid.7203:

I can’t even coordinate with enough people to try the Vale Guardian, and the few times I tried everyone just walked out the door. Can’t imagine any pleasure doing even more punishing stuff.

That’s the thing though. It was nowhere near as painful to fill a group for UW, even without anything close to the cool lfg tool we have now, than raid can be atm.

The current raid feels more like some kind of guitar hero that ask ppl to repeat a precise dance (dancing heroes?) with a more or less flexible team comp until it’s good enough. The difficulty in UW was mostly trying not to to chew more than you could handle at any given moment. It was more careful aggro management than all needing to jump inside green circle and avoid blue until 75% then clap your hands. I never was a fan of that kind of mechanics which make team recruitment far less flexible and thus harder.

wildmanviper.4351:

There is a cap of combined Monthly and Dailies at 15,000 achievement points and you will no longer gain the 10 for dailies after you reach the cap. Can ANET raise this cap or is there a reason why veteran players should be penalized for completing all the dailies and achievement hunting? Im not at the cap but in 10 days, I will be. I have a few friends on my contacts list that have a friendly competition on holding top achievement points and once the cap is reached we are forced into other areas of the game that we dont necessarily have fun playing. For instance, a friend has 25,937 and has had that for the last 3 months because of the cap. He doesnt have HOT, which does encourage him to get it for points but he completes dailies and receives the rewards, just not the achievement points. He was 2K ahead of me when HOT was release and IM currently at 27,146. My rival is at 27,454 but in 10 days, I might as well say goodbye.

What are your thoughts?

Honestly, why oh why should stuff like dailies count as an ‘achievement’ anyway. It should never have given any AP to begin with. Be glad you can get 15k out of mining, flushing the mystic toilet or looking through vistas…

Sizzle Hint.1820:

I should be facing legendary players in legendary and not in amber.

All that was added today is pretty much a huge reward track. I actually wanted to put some time into this season and go for legendary because the games been quite fun recently but guess i am gonna pass now.

Perhaps you will be able to come up with a proper system next season arena net … i have my doubts.

I agree but to be fair, none of the seasons were anywhere close to pull what you say you would have wanted and were grotesquely unfair on top of it.

Again, the only way you are ever going to get ratings that are meaningful is if ppl are part of fixed registered teams when they compete. Otherwise your rating will barely be better than kitten.

Since they probably do not have the pop for this and need to attract more players they probably decided to go for what the seasons already were defacto: a reward track. Only this time the reward track is going to be less outrageously unfair in the way the MM works even if there will be issues and frustration emerging from low level life forms players.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Somehow, when raids were first announced I was hoping for the return of FoW and UW with all it’s quest chains but harder (not just more hp for monsters lazy fix). I liked the fact that a party wiped in UW was a real threat that could equate your entire team having wasted a lot of minutes/hours. That reaching the end of it all was the result of a lot of time playing carefully with a sword over your head all the time instead of just a linear boss chain that you can restart with next to 0 consequences other than rage quitters being themselves. UW was a good example of a nice balance between risk and reward that I think is missing in the current game as it is.

Anybody else who feel like me or I’m just being a nostalgic fool here? If Anet is reading this, are there plans regarding UW and/or Fow coming back with Dhum etc.?

I thought UW was incredibly dull and uncompromisingly punishing for small mistakes. FoW was similarly dull, although more flexible in relation to “oops” moments. Both were a lot more linear than the OP makes it seem: you had a choice about when to tackle each element, but no choice about whether to do them (well, a little wiggle room for FoW).

The rewards were also lackluster. I ran a lot of FoW without getting much of anything other than access to spend my ecto on obbi armor. I ran UW less often, but never got anything memorable.

I am glad that GW2’s raids look nothing like either of those. (And I say this as someone who has yet to complete a single raid wing.)

I guess it’s a case of to each their own. It is true that you had unavoidable quests but I far prefer having the liberty of how, when and in which order I can do most of them. The current raid extreme linearity is disappointing to me.

You also can’t explore the raid the way you could explore the UW or FoW is also something I miss. The feeling of being somewhere else alien and far and dangerous. I guess it’s the immersion that I miss.

Ofc to those who see time as a problem I can’t fault you for it. It was a time consuming task even if ppl eventually could run it all relatively quickly in the end. It’s just that, to me, it felt more balanced in terms or risk/investment/reward.

The real danger of loosing all progress is something I genuinely miss in gw2. But then again, I’m someone who hate the WP system for making the world feel so small despite being larger than it used to be. I guess immersion is really important to me when I play such a game.

BTW, for those who speak as if nobody with a full time job can afford to play such a content I happen to have a full time job too but I don’t see why I couldn’t do it on weekends or even some evenings…

Anyway, I will put this under ‘nostalgia’ I guess.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

brannigan.9831:

How is that possible that we could come full circle? The devs declare something is not working well enough and go away from it with totally different matchmaking and then come back to it? WTF? This is just going to punish higher mmr solo, duo, and trio players by forcing them to group with much worse players to make teams even out MMR wise. Can we even get an actual pvp dev, not the forum pr flack, to explain why this is more fair and better then what we had in season 2 and 3? And why the better players experience should be degraded to prop up the performance of worse players in leagues which are supposed to be about skill and prestige? This is a joke.

The thing is, why should high MMR players get easy matches (getting the best teammates and all that)? They are supposedly great by the virtue of their skills and yet get the easiest matches all things being equal. You do not prove you are skillful by getting easy matches.

What merit do you have to triumph when you get optimal conditions more often than not? If you are that good and can carry that much why should you care who you are paired with? Others will have to face similar opposition if they soloq. Nobody should expect to have a free ride to legendary just because of a rating that basically has next to no value. If your rating mean anything show it by carrying better than others can instead of expecting your MMR to do all the job for you.

I’m sorry but I can’t be bothered having any pity for the pvp MMR elite the way the previous seasons were engineering self-fulfilling prophecies.

I can only explain this in analogous terms. Suppose your team has the best goalkeeper in the world. Your offense could be terrible and defense just as bad. But your goalie keeps every game manageable. Now let’s flip the script. Say you have the best striker in the game, but the rest of your team can’t get the striker the ball.
By this logic, the striker should carry the team and they never lose because he is the best in the game right? But we all know that is not how it actually works.

The point of my story is that certain positions/roles have a greater ability to carry in gw2 pvp. Bunkers & bruiser can make up for poor dps play. It is not so often that works the other way around. Just like if you have a terrible healer but the best dps, your group will wipe.

So no not every “elite” player can carry because the role they play does not allow for that level of “carry”.

I agree but considering the fact most of these elite players will hammer you with “switch profession when needed” it shouldn’t be a problem for them. Being able to play a lot of different position is what make them great too.

But, still, all this is no reason as to why some players should have an easy or hard ride based on rating rather than deeds.

If Anet would have wanted a real team competition where rating was meaning anything a stable registered team would be required to participate and the rating given as a result of victories or defeat would be for the team not one player who is part of ever changing team. Sadly, they probably don’t have anywhere the pop to pull this off and it wouldn’t attract new players as easily.

brannigan.9831:

How is that possible that we could come full circle? The devs declare something is not working well enough and go away from it with totally different matchmaking and then come back to it? WTF? This is just going to punish higher mmr solo, duo, and trio players by forcing them to group with much worse players to make teams even out MMR wise. Can we even get an actual pvp dev, not the forum pr flack, to explain why this is more fair and better then what we had in season 2 and 3? And why the better players experience should be degraded to prop up the performance of worse players in leagues which are supposed to be about skill and prestige? This is a joke.

The thing is, why should high MMR players get easy matches (getting the best teammates and all that)? They are supposedly great by the virtue of their skills and yet get the easiest matches all things being equal. You do not prove you are skillful by getting easy matches.

What merit do you have to triumph when you get optimal conditions more often than not? If you are that good and can carry that much why should you care who you are paired with? Others will have to face similar opposition if they soloq. Nobody should expect to have a free ride to legendary just because of a rating that basically has next to no value. If your rating mean anything show it by carrying better than others can instead of expecting your MMR to do all the job for you.

I’m sorry but I can’t be bothered having any pity for the pvp MMR elite the way the previous seasons were engineering self-fulfilling prophecies.

Swagger.1459:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Swagger.1459:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Swagger.1459:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

As with a lot of societal issues, education is the only long term solution. Only once ppl realize the gap that exist between what they say they want vs what they factually do will there be hope.

The solution has to come from the players, not from Anet. And for that to happen players have to feel it make sense and that they have power over their gaming experience. But unless they are aware of the consequences of their actions, or care about it at all, forget any measure to counter bandwagons. The path of least resistance is always going to win where ignorance rule. Always.

Honestly huh?

So you are blaming the players because Anet didn’t devote the resources and person power to improve wvw and professions and combat?

It’s the players fault that Anet didn’t do anything substantial to increase retention rates and bring in new players to fill up wvw servers?

It’s the players fault for the frustrating lag too?

Players fault that nearly 4 years into product life we below average rewards compared to other areas of the game?

It’s the players fault that something hasn’t been done about the afwul condition and stealth spam?

…RvR is dependent on players to run smoothly but Anet lost players because they did not reinvest strongly in this part of the game. You can’t blame players looking to get off unpopulated servers to find some good and massive fights and sit around taking camps on emptier maps with one side dominating.

I like Anet and this game, spent a ton on the gemstore, but they dropped the ball big time. I’m glad they are making a renewed effort, but you still can’t blame players for switching servers to get out of these unbalanced matches.

I think you misunderstand me. I do not say Anet doesn’t have any power, and therefore responsibility, in all this. I think they can make it easier for the players, sure. However, no matter what Anet does, we, the players, have the last word regarding bandwagonning and the impact it has.

Players who are complaining about unbalanced match-up but systematically join the bandwagon every time clearly miss the irony of their move.

It all boils down to: are you part of the solution or part of the problem. So long as ppl will refuse to acknowledge they also have power over this issue the problem will persist no matter what Anet does.

If we want to simply this…

Anet created the problems. Players are finding their own solutions to the mess or moving on to get their pvp fix.

Right now you have an up coming pure pvp rvr game that will blow wvw rvr out of the water, and all the future holds here is server linking and reward tracks… What do you think wvw will look like a year from now if Anet doesn’t reinvest in wvw?

All these issues fall squarely on the people who created and maintain this game, not the players.

Anet AND us created the problem. We both did. The solution is not 100% on any one shoulders. Never was, never is, and never will be.

No, players did nothing except play a game mode that received very little reinvestment by the creators.

You are not going to fault the players for the wvw “stuff” that wasn’t coded into the game that could have made the difference. Do you blame players for the year long pve content drought or canceled legendaries. or anets planned release schedule of stuff?

Players aren’t widdling away at keyboard writing the next xpac, we have zero control. If it bombs, it’s not the fault of the customer, anymore than what happens with wvw.

You don’t understand how this all works… GW2 is a product. Players are the customer. Either a company creates a well liked product and customers buy it, or a company creates an average product and you get average to low results.

Anet wanted an rvr mode in the game and did very little with it, that’s their fault for whatever the outcome is.

Edit- and this entire idea by the OP to punishing players financially because Anet failed to maintain wvw is irrational. It’s also a double slap in the face to customers who are trying to stick out this mess.

Players aren’t (only) victims here. What motivates ppl playing WvW hold a lot of the blame.

If it’s easy loot bags and “victories” that motivate you, bandwagonning may seems to be a good idea but it does come at a cost for the game mode. You aren’t forced to play WvW or to transfer server. Maybe EoTM would be a better game mode for such a person. Maybe not, IDK.

I would have tons of reasons to transfer but for me it’s an ultimate last resort for reasons that are mine (money has no part of it). But the point is, I can choose something that is coherent with what I want out of that game mode or I can continue to shoot myself in the foot by transferring while complaining that match-ups are crap (assuming competitive match-ups are what interest me ofc).

In the end, if you hold power, even infinitesimal, you also hold a proportionate responsibility in any given situation. Players, all players, do have a lot of power over what they experiment in this game (so does Anet) so plz stop telling me Anet has 100% of the blame and you are powerless here.

Somehow, when raids were first announced I was hoping for the return of FoW and UW with all it’s quest chains but harder (not just more hp for monsters lazy fix). I liked the fact that a party wiped in UW was a real threat that could equate your entire team having wasted a lot of minutes/hours. That reaching the end of it all was the result of a lot of time playing carefully with a sword over your head all the time instead of just a linear boss chain that you can restart with next to 0 consequences other than rage quitters being themselves. UW was a good example of a nice balance between risk and reward that I think is missing in the current game as it is.

Anybody else who feel like me or I’m just being a nostalgic fool here? If Anet is reading this, are there plans regarding UW and/or Fow coming back with Dhum etc.?

Tris Apollumenon.6435:

Sirbeaumerdier, you seem to be under the impression that Nuzt is in CD. Nuzt is in SBI and complaining about being in T4. Their criticism of the T3 matchup is “CD sucks, we should have had that spot”, not “T3 is unfairly crushing CD”.

Ah, my apologies then.

Swagger.1459:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Swagger.1459:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

As with a lot of societal issues, education is the only long term solution. Only once ppl realize the gap that exist between what they say they want vs what they factually do will there be hope.

The solution has to come from the players, not from Anet. And for that to happen players have to feel it make sense and that they have power over their gaming experience. But unless they are aware of the consequences of their actions, or care about it at all, forget any measure to counter bandwagons. The path of least resistance is always going to win where ignorance rule. Always.

Honestly huh?

So you are blaming the players because Anet didn’t devote the resources and person power to improve wvw and professions and combat?

It’s the players fault that Anet didn’t do anything substantial to increase retention rates and bring in new players to fill up wvw servers?

It’s the players fault for the frustrating lag too?

Players fault that nearly 4 years into product life we below average rewards compared to other areas of the game?

It’s the players fault that something hasn’t been done about the afwul condition and stealth spam?

…RvR is dependent on players to run smoothly but Anet lost players because they did not reinvest strongly in this part of the game. You can’t blame players looking to get off unpopulated servers to find some good and massive fights and sit around taking camps on emptier maps with one side dominating.

I like Anet and this game, spent a ton on the gemstore, but they dropped the ball big time. I’m glad they are making a renewed effort, but you still can’t blame players for switching servers to get out of these unbalanced matches.

I think you misunderstand me. I do not say Anet doesn’t have any power, and therefore responsibility, in all this. I think they can make it easier for the players, sure. However, no matter what Anet does, we, the players, have the last word regarding bandwagonning and the impact it has.

Players who are complaining about unbalanced match-up but systematically join the bandwagon every time clearly miss the irony of their move.

It all boils down to: are you part of the solution or part of the problem. So long as ppl will refuse to acknowledge they also have power over this issue the problem will persist no matter what Anet does.

If we want to simply this…

Anet created the problems. Players are finding their own solutions to the mess or moving on to get their pvp fix.

Right now you have an up coming pure pvp rvr game that will blow wvw rvr out of the water, and all the future holds here is server linking and reward tracks… What do you think wvw will look like a year from now if Anet doesn’t reinvest in wvw?

All these issues fall squarely on the people who created and maintain this game, not the players.

Anet AND us created the problem. We both did. The solution is not 100% on any one shoulders. Never was, never is, and never will be.

Chaba.5410:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Players who are complaining about unbalanced match-up but systematically join the bandwagon every time clearly miss the irony of their move.

Repeating something I wrote a long time ago on this forum…

One of the reasons bandwagons occur is due to a lack of transparency. People take a risk when they transfer. Transferring is a blind activity. They don’t have any visibility into how many other players are also transferring.

Transparency is the part that rest on Anet shoulders. The rest is up to us.

Nuzt.7894:

What Anets should have done is manually adjust the links in T4, but because they didn’t then yes, they should have left it as it was. T3 was a decent match up, YB could have used a few more people but aside from that, all three of the T3 servers were relatively close as far as competition. It’s not fair to T4, I don’t deny that but that is on Anet not SBI.

Still, it couldn’t have stayed that way no matter what. For DH, the match-up was beyond farcically unfair. You think your current match-up in T3 is bad yet you still somewhat advocate for what was way worse when you were crushing us in T4 without any hope to be opposed? :/

Swagger.1459:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

As with a lot of societal issues, education is the only long term solution. Only once ppl realize the gap that exist between what they say they want vs what they factually do will there be hope.

The solution has to come from the players, not from Anet. And for that to happen players have to feel it make sense and that they have power over their gaming experience. But unless they are aware of the consequences of their actions, or care about it at all, forget any measure to counter bandwagons. The path of least resistance is always going to win where ignorance rule. Always.

Honestly huh?

So you are blaming the players because Anet didn’t devote the resources and person power to improve wvw and professions and combat?

It’s the players fault that Anet didn’t do anything substantial to increase retention rates and bring in new players to fill up wvw servers?

It’s the players fault for the frustrating lag too?

Players fault that nearly 4 years into product life we below average rewards compared to other areas of the game?

It’s the players fault that something hasn’t been done about the afwul condition and stealth spam?

…RvR is dependent on players to run smoothly but Anet lost players because they did not reinvest strongly in this part of the game. You can’t blame players looking to get off unpopulated servers to find some good and massive fights and sit around taking camps on emptier maps with one side dominating.

I like Anet and this game, spent a ton on the gemstore, but they dropped the ball big time. I’m glad they are making a renewed effort, but you still can’t blame players for switching servers to get out of these unbalanced matches.

I think you misunderstand me. I do not say Anet doesn’t have any power, and therefore responsibility, in all this. I think they can make it easier for the players, sure. However, no matter what Anet does, we, the players, have the last word regarding bandwagonning and the impact it has.

Players who are complaining about unbalanced match-up but systematically join the bandwagon every time clearly miss the irony of their move.

It all boils down to: are you part of the solution or part of the problem. So long as ppl will refuse to acknowledge they also have power over this issue the problem will persist no matter what Anet does.

Forum bug… /15 chars

As with a lot of societal issues, education is the only long term solution. Only once ppl realize the gap that exist between what they say they want vs what they factually do will there be hope.

The solution has to come from the players, not from Anet. And for that to happen players have to feel it make sense and that they have power over their gaming experience. But unless they are aware of the consequences of their actions, or care about it at all, forget any measure to counter bandwagons. The path of least resistance is always going to win where ignorance rule. Always.

Eros.6801:

To be honest there aren’t any class can deal massive damg but there are classes with easy gameplay and thief is not one of them, thief is good and fun but hard to play it right also not recommended for new comer.

Edited

Just saw another of your post downthere don’t need to create multi thread for just the same question.

My suggestion for your other thread !

1/ Ranger
2/ Necro
3/ Warrior
4/ Rev ( with herald )

One shot capabilities are real and I think it fit the bill when we are talking “massive damage”. What more devastating damage can you do than downing in a single blow?

As for harder/easier profession I, like a broken record at this point, suggest a build approach rather than a profession approach to the topic. Thief can be super hard or super faceroll depending on build and context and so can all the other professions. PPL just assume everyone play cheese meta is the problem.

DAN.7829:

I want to thank everyone in Darkhaven and Ehmry Bay for fighting so hard! It is so nice have so much to do. Trying to take a camp, tower or keep without getting run over by 60 takes skill! Props! Being spawn camped is so convenient. You can walk right out of any spawn and fight outnumbered odds without a wait. There is never a cue including reset! Bonus! It also encourages you to do other things in game like pve. The fact that there are only 6 players on our teamspeak at any given time gives us the opportunity to get real close. Its also refreshing to have no expectations at all. This way everything is a celebration. We celebrate as a group when we kill a yak! Thank you from Darkhaven for all the love!!!! Jelly Doom

I’m not sure if sarcastic… we have 60 ppl playing and we aren’t outnumbered anymore 24/7?

Shiyo.3578:

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey folks,

It’s been a while since we’ve commented on leagues, so here’s a brief update.

There’s definitely room for improvement in the league system, and it’s safe to say that it’s the team’s highest priority now that we’ve signed off on everything going in for the July release. It’s still a bit early to talk about specifics, but I do think we can talk about some of the goals we have for the changes:

• Improve match quality
• Make divisions more reflective of player skill
• Make leagues feel more rewarding after you’ve placed in your appropriate division

We’re still determining the scope of the project, but I do want to be clear that it’s unlikely that these changes will be in for S4. Once we get a bit further in the dev process I’ll see if I can give an update on our thoughts/direction.

-Grouch

Please tell me you are aware of how the matchmaking works right now:

Stack all “lose streaks/low MMR” on one team against “all win streaks/high mmr” on another.

This creates unwinnable/unlosable matches a vast majority of the time. In games you win, you could be afk and still win, in games you lost you couldn’t do anything to help win. This is a common occurrence by players of ALL skill levels(yes, even legendary) a vast majority of the time. Your contribution to winning or losing basically never matters, which isn’t fun.

A major reasoning for this is your division/pip system. It simply cannot exist in it’s current state. You could be the worst player in the world but still make it to ruby, eventually, by grinding games. Once you get there you’re never going to make any progress at all(as the worst player in the world) as this is when a proper ladder/division system starts. This makes bad/new players unable to progress, while also making good/veteran players angry and unmotivated to continue to “carry” lesser skilled players. Newbies/bad players are placed against people nowhere near their skill level, and veterans are placed with people waaaay below their skill level. Both the veterans and new/bad players end up disliking the system. Both the new and veteran players are put into matches that are not balanced for either of them. A matchmaking system is supposed to create proper matches – the way the division system currently works CANNOT. The only way to fix it would be to make it so you lose pips and tiers even at amber.

Please try to create a ranked pvp system for one type of player – those seeking a competitive PvP environment, and stop trying to create a ranked pvp system for EVERYONE, this includes people who probably shouldn’t even be doing ranked PvP. You are trying to make a ranked system that lets new/bad players feel “happy” about progressing while also trying to create a competitive matchmaking environment. You cannot create a good system while also trying to make sure new/bad players are capable of playing it while also trying to create good matches for veterans. Create the system for a single type of player, not all of them at once. The people the amber-ruby division systems are designed for(as in, you basically can just grind out progress) should be playing unranked, not ranked.

What you end up with by trying to create a system that caters to everyone at once is a non-functional system that doesn’t make anyone happy.

This. So much this.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Johje Holan.4607:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Nappy.6218:

Player Killing & Solo (or +1)

Thief. Immediate disengage with stealth and quick burst ganks. Gets really stale and one dimensional though. And if someone sneezes on you you’re dead. Can pick off or escape outnumbered fights the easiest.

Mesmer and Druid aren’t far behind. Scrapper too but it’s a little slow for me to escape zergs.

No, please no more stealth teefs or Mesmers.

Poor guy one day you’ll realize stealth doesn’t make you invincible.

Invincible, no. That is true. But it sure make you annoying AF by letting you reset way too many fights when things don’t go your way. It’s one huge bail out of jail card for sure.

Couple this with insane mobility and it will give your opponent the feeling they have little power over any outcome where a thief is involve. If they loose, the thief will bail and there is very close to nothing you can do to prevent him escaping even by ccing him silly. If they win there is also very little you can do to escape…

As much as they can sux in pvp they can be a tad too good in wvw roaming.

Mesmers can do the same. Scrappers can do the same. Druids can do the same. All with better fighting potential than thief and stronger defenses.

Honestly don’t understand all the thief griping these days.

I think you misunderstand me here. My opinion of what makes thief annoying does carry to all the builds that mimics it in a way or another. I only addressed thief because it was the topic.

As an aside (not related to what was just discussed and not aimed at you), I don’t understand how ppl can have fun riding what I call bikes with 8 wheels (looking at the current scrapper meta for example).

Are you supposed to be a good “biker” if you can always keep your balance when riding a bike with 8 wheels? IDK for some but I think playing with a minimum of risk makes the game all the more spicier. If the analogy make sense to you.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Johje Holan.4607:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Nappy.6218:

Player Killing & Solo (or +1)

Thief. Immediate disengage with stealth and quick burst ganks. Gets really stale and one dimensional though. And if someone sneezes on you you’re dead. Can pick off or escape outnumbered fights the easiest.

Mesmer and Druid aren’t far behind. Scrapper too but it’s a little slow for me to escape zergs.

No, please no more stealth teefs or Mesmers.

Poor guy one day you’ll realize stealth doesn’t make you invincible.

Invincible, no. That is true. But it sure make you annoying AF by letting you reset way too many fights when things don’t go your way. It’s one huge bail out of jail card for sure.

Couple this with insane mobility and it will give your opponent the feeling they have little power over any outcome where a thief is involve. If they loose, the thief will bail and there is very close to nothing you can do to prevent him escaping even by ccing him silly. If they win there is also very little you can do to escape…

As much as they can sux in pvp they can be a tad too good in wvw roaming.

Will this nerf only touch PVE tho…. I don’t care for a nerf in pve. Anything works in pve anyway.

JFLaliberte.5749:

When faced against servers with double the WvW players, lower population servers are simply getting farmed for ppt. Considering that each kills give ppt, higher population servers seem to get an unfair advantage. As an example, servers with lower population who barely manage to have 30-40 players to defend their BL get wiped by larger population servers who come in with 80 players in that BL. It simply doesn’t work anymore. Ppt should be given according to player ratio. The more players you have, the less ppt you get. It’s just going to make players transfer to higher pop servers and it’ll be screwed up all over again.

Let me guess, you are on DH? I know how you feel…

Artemis Thuras.8795:

I remember how challenging it was when raids first came out. Trying to form a successful group wasn’t easy. The advice now for new raiders seems to be the stock answer: “form your own group”.

We could just say “suck it up and get on with it like we did” but that’s a bit antisocial, and off-putting for people who want to get into raiding late.

The reason you don’t want to say “suck it up like we did” isn’t simply because it’s antisocial and not helping one bit. It’s first and foremost because it’s a really dumb thing to say considering the “like we did part” can’t really be compared not knowing other players context, assets and limitations. Many would be glad to “suck it up” the way many did rather than the way they still do.

That being said, I salute the initiative you take here. Very good idea.

So I think a thread with advice on how to get into raids and/or forming your own groups would be beneficial.

Few tips of mine:

Legendary insight pings: they cant be faked, they can be bought. They don’t really mean much at all. ( I personally have an item code for 255, purely for when I’m looking for more, and I get told how their insights make them pro)

I had no idea you could do that.

Gear checking: don’t just look for optimal dps in pugs: look for gear that shows they’ve put thought into their build. The dps checks aren’t actually very tight. But keep a thick skin, people like to hurl abuse, and/or claim success with their gear.

Make sure you meet your own requirements.

Remember the dps checks aren’t that tight, so you do have room to run safer class compositions. A smooth run is a much better experience than a failed fast run. Especially when pugging.

Never assume everyone knows all the mechanics and telegraphs. This is a fast track to frustration and failure.

Don’t be afraid to admit your mistakes. Some may kick you, but knowing you messed up is a big step towards not repeating your mistakes. Players who will make for good raid allies will recognise this and be content with progress.

So far I haven’t been kicked from a squad for admitting my mistakes but I did see a few poor souls get that treatment. I don’t expect them to try being honest anytime soon though… Some ppl simply do not deserve the truth.

Practice your own rotations in the training area (more difficult for support classes like druid). The last thing you want is to be figuring out how to use your class while trying to also figure out mechanics.

Accept that not every class is useful for every fight. The more classes you can play the easier it is to find/form groups.

Hopefully there is plenty more advice that can be consolidated here.

Again, thanks for the initiative.

Absurdo.8309:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Absurdo.8309:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Vinceman.4572:

Cristalyan.5728:

Well, I want to ask you Vinceman: Why do you think the LS is ONLY for the rest of the players (the non raiders). Do you have any official statement of the developers regarding the LS3 claiming that they will deny the right to play this content for raiders? On the other hand I saw such a statement from the devs. telling us that the raids were DESIGNED with the idea in mind to make it non accessible to most of the players.

I haven’t said anything you have written above. I am just very pleased that there is content Ohoni and others aren’t enjoying at all plus that they feel excluded.
I don’t care about LS3. I will play it once for the story, maybe twice due the achievements and then go back to raids – the best decision Anet has ever implemented into this game.
I will state forever that we need content like raids because the skill gap between players is so high a “one for all” wouldn’t please the best of the best a.k.a. the elite. Due to easy raid mode development being too expensive to produce I think it’s better to deny content for some players if the rest of the game is big enough. GW2 is offering such amount – may the complaints become silent in the night. ^^

I don’t know why you still go back at “skill or skill cap” as the reason ppl are not participating when you have lots and lots of replies about the logistic being the problem and not how hard the content itself is.

The reality is it’s not the “skill of the elite” that sets the “elite” apart so much as the gaming disposition of the “elite” being coherent with raid logistic.

Remove the logistic so raids can be reasonably tried by all and you will see the “elite” population suddenly exploding and routinely beating all the bosses senseless every week like the current “elite” already does.

I’m glad Potato guy was honest about this and didn’t try to disguise his success as him simply being so far above mere mortals. Being elitist isn’t about being factually “good”. It’s an attitude that some ppl have that seek to look down on others. Don’t be an elitist. Be a good player (Elitist – kittenbaggery).

What are your constructive solutions? In my experience, people find groups through the lfg all the time. I think the actual problem is the weekly lockout, because there’s little incentive to fight bosses again later in the week.

And, future tip, name-calling rarely helps.

Name calling? If you are referring to my usage of “Potato guy” to refer to WoodenPotato it wasn’t meant as an insult. Far from it. But, if he feels offended by it I’ll gladly apologize.

If however you find the word “elitist” insulting then don’t be one. I was targeting people who themselves say they are “the elite”. If the hat fits…

Now, as for the constructive solutions I’ll repeat what I already said before:

1) Offer legendary armors to other game modes (similarly difficult and costly).

2) If you can’t or won’t do #1 for a reason or another (possibly because they would have to make more collections and skins etc.), replace raid specific currencies that are asked in legendary gifts (looking hard at the 150 LI) by something more universal but equally long/costly that would be obtainable through other gaming areas. People already have to complete the entire raid to unlock the collections so, really, their skill/willingness to at least try isn’t the problem wouldn’t you agree? What does doing it 150 times instead of 30 times proves skill-wise?

If you say it makes the armor less prestigious because this LI bloating block so many out of the armor you aren’t defending the raid skill prestige so much as your own selfish interests. People who can’t do raid 150 times still won’t do it regardless of the armor. This should only be a problem for ppl who were planning on making the armor mean something it never could to begin with: skill is the barrier. It’s not.

These suggestions show that you aren’t concerned with your stated problem (accessibility), but the reward.

Fine. Just don’t hate on raids because you can’t get legendary armor.

And, for the record, I am ok with alternative ways to get legendary armor, as a low priority development item.

First, I can certainly hate anything that locks something I want behind something I don’t feel like doing ad-nauseam. It’s perfectly legitimate to hate such a thing. Legendary items are what constitute long term goals for a lot of gamers including myself. The bulk of the new legendary items being canceled was already bad. Knowing that simply unlocking the collection for the armor isn’t all that we have to do regarding raids was not a pleasant surprised for me. It’s not low priority to me and a lot of ppl to access long term goal like the armor.

Second, as to accessibility, the lfg could benefit from some improvements considering raid specific needs. Something that show in real time what roles are filled when you look or apply for a raid in the lfg. It would make open raid groups of ppl way easier to organize when the roles would be updated automatically as soon ppl applying for one of the “raid slot” would be accepted in the raid group (or a slot becomes empty again). The creator of the lfg could decide what each of the 10 slots description would be and the players could apply for a slot in that lfg. It’s one of the upgrade that could make pugging such a content way easier.

Adding build templates saving to the game, like we had in Gw1, would also be quite nice and helpful.

Dahkeus.8243:

It’s pretty much the story of every pug group in any MMO ever.

• Pug leader wants to make a group with a high group of success.
• Pug leader has to invite strangers.
• Pug leader cannot tell how skilled or experienced the strangers are.
• Pug leader has many choices.
• Pug leader asks for potentially arbitrary proof of achievement/gear/items from large pool of strangers to narrow down their options.
• Players not selected by pug leader decide they hate the pug leader.
• Players who are new to content have difficulty finding groups since most pug leaders want to increase their chances of success.

At the end of the day, people making groups only have so many tools at their disposal to vet any potential group members. In an ideal world, these group leaders would ask questions that tap into the players knowledge of encounters instead of just asking for links to gear if they truly want the best players or we would have more group leaders that were willing to risk success chances in order to teach new players, but reality is what reality is.

And sometimes leaders of pugs are just as bad/foolish as the type of players they try so hard to exclude.

What you describe right here is what constitute the real barrier to such a content.

I for one don’t want to see players who enjoy that content penalized one bit. I simply hope we are given alternatives (similarly hard or even harder content, NOT logistic) to reach the carrot (Legendary armor).