Guild Wars 2

Absurdo.8309:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Vinceman.4572:

Cristalyan.5728:

Well, I want to ask you Vinceman: Why do you think the LS is ONLY for the rest of the players (the non raiders). Do you have any official statement of the developers regarding the LS3 claiming that they will deny the right to play this content for raiders? On the other hand I saw such a statement from the devs. telling us that the raids were DESIGNED with the idea in mind to make it non accessible to most of the players.

I haven’t said anything you have written above. I am just very pleased that there is content Ohoni and others aren’t enjoying at all plus that they feel excluded.
I don’t care about LS3. I will play it once for the story, maybe twice due the achievements and then go back to raids – the best decision Anet has ever implemented into this game.
I will state forever that we need content like raids because the skill gap between players is so high a “one for all” wouldn’t please the best of the best a.k.a. the elite. Due to easy raid mode development being too expensive to produce I think it’s better to deny content for some players if the rest of the game is big enough. GW2 is offering such amount – may the complaints become silent in the night. ^^

I don’t know why you still go back at “skill or skill cap” as the reason ppl are not participating when you have lots and lots of replies about the logistic being the problem and not how hard the content itself is.

The reality is it’s not the “skill of the elite” that sets the “elite” apart so much as the gaming disposition of the “elite” being coherent with raid logistic.

Remove the logistic so raids can be reasonably tried by all and you will see the “elite” population suddenly exploding and routinely beating all the bosses senseless every week like the current “elite” already does.

I’m glad Potato guy was honest about this and didn’t try to disguise his success as him simply being so far above mere mortals. Being elitist isn’t about being factually “good”. It’s an attitude that some ppl have that seek to look down on others. Don’t be an elitist. Be a good player (Elitist – kittenbaggery).

What are your constructive solutions? In my experience, people find groups through the lfg all the time. I think the actual problem is the weekly lockout, because there’s little incentive to fight bosses again later in the week.

And, future tip, name-calling rarely helps.

Name calling? If you are referring to my usage of “Potato guy” to refer to WoodenPotato it wasn’t meant as an insult. Far from it. But, if he feels offended by it I’ll gladly apologize.

If however you find the word “elitist” insulting then don’t be one. I was targeting people who themselves say they are “the elite”. If the hat fits…

Now, as for the constructive solutions I’ll repeat what I already said before:

1) Offer legendary armors to other game modes (similarly difficult and costly).

2) If you can’t or won’t do #1 for a reason or another (possibly because they would have to make more collections and skins etc.), replace raid specific currencies that are asked in legendary gifts (looking hard at the 150 LI) by something more universal but equally long/costly that would be obtainable through other gaming areas. People already have to complete the entire raid to unlock the collections so, really, their skill/willingness to at least try isn’t the problem wouldn’t you agree? What does doing it 150 times instead of 30 times proves skill-wise?

If you say it makes the armor less prestigious because this LI bloating block so many out of the armor you aren’t defending the raid skill prestige so much as your own selfish interests. People who can’t do raid 150 times still won’t do it regardless of the armor. This should only be a problem for ppl who were planning on making the armor mean something it never could to begin with: skill is the barrier. It’s not.

Vinceman.4572:

Cristalyan.5728:

Well, I want to ask you Vinceman: Why do you think the LS is ONLY for the rest of the players (the non raiders). Do you have any official statement of the developers regarding the LS3 claiming that they will deny the right to play this content for raiders? On the other hand I saw such a statement from the devs. telling us that the raids were DESIGNED with the idea in mind to make it non accessible to most of the players.

I haven’t said anything you have written above. I am just very pleased that there is content Ohoni and others aren’t enjoying at all plus that they feel excluded.
I don’t care about LS3. I will play it once for the story, maybe twice due the achievements and then go back to raids – the best decision Anet has ever implemented into this game.
I will state forever that we need content like raids because the skill gap between players is so high a “one for all” wouldn’t please the best of the best a.k.a. the elite. Due to easy raid mode development being too expensive to produce I think it’s better to deny content for some players if the rest of the game is big enough. GW2 is offering such amount – may the complaints become silent in the night. ^^

I don’t know why you still go back at “skill or skill cap” as the reason ppl are not participating when you have lots and lots of replies about the logistic being the problem and not how hard the content itself is.

The reality is it’s not the “skill of the elite” that sets the “elite” apart so much as the gaming disposition of the “elite” being coherent with raid logistic.

Remove the logistic so raids can be reasonably tried by all and you will see the “elite” population suddenly exploding and routinely beating all the bosses senseless every week like the current “elite” already does.

I’m glad Potato guy was honest about this and didn’t try to disguise his success as him simply being so far above mere mortals. Being elitist isn’t about being factually “good”. It’s an attitude that some ppl have that seek to look down on others. Don’t be an elitist. Be a good player (Elitist – kittenbaggery).

Cyninja.2954:

Rednik.3809:

Ofc just having raids not making this game wow-like. Making them as only endgame content is. Raids getting all the shines – new armor, new unique drops, whole new class of legendaries, easy access to best armor and weapon drops and even their own currency to buy them. But that’s not an issue, “work hard – get best” is pretty fine. Anet succeeded to create a new endgame, but failed to introduce players to it. They had one of most smooth learning systems for endgame ever, when they made fractals, but suddenly ignored their own experience and experience of every other successful pve game on mmo scene.

And that is essentially a difference in perspective.

- I don’t view raids as endgame. I view tham as challenging content alternative for people who seek somthing like this. PvE endgame in GW2 is and always has been world zerg events and amass as much trash loot as possible to get gold for loot you actually want. When 99% of the game is designed this way, the new 1% hardly can be considered endgame.

- raids get unique raid skins. I agree that other game modes should get unique items too (especially skins) and in some form or another they have. Fractals provide free ascended loot athigh tier if done regularly. Spvp provides dungeon skins, gold, tokens etc. free of charge, meaning your investment is close to 0 gold/material wise.

- easy access to gear in raids is debatable. The time it takes to get 1 item is significantly longer than it is to farm the gold for similar gear. The stat disparity is indeed unfair but as mentioned can be covered by different setups (viper armor for example which can get crafted)

- legendary armor is a reward for over 4 months of doing consistent content and investing a LOT of gold, and it’s exactly 0% better than ascended armor. I do agree though, there should be access to it via spvp and wvw, similar in length and difficulty to raids though.

This is once again an issue where a part of the playerbase screems “I’m getting treated unfair!” even though it’s at best a very hyped distraction. If you want to raid, put in the small effort. If not, well focus on things you can do and enjoy.

Once you start meating those full legendary people in wvw who can swap their stats on a whim after investing 30,000 gold into their gear, invest 3,000 gold into 3 full sets of ascended for the different stat combinations and be just as good as them. Problem solved.

Just give other game modes their version of legendary armors. Make it as difficult to get as raids (or more for all I care). The content difficulty was never the problem for many (the logistic is) and a lot of ppl who feel forced to do raid (because the armor is what motivate them not the raid) will stop complaining about it. At least a good deal of ppl will, including myself.

The way I read some ppl who replied in this thread, I get the impression they have no jobs and lives in their parents’ basement. That if we aren’t willing to sacrifice our life our kids and jobs on the bloodstone we do not want to “raid enough”. I exaggerate, but you get the idea that there are unreasonable expectations flying around. For some it’s going to be unreasonable for a lot of reasons that have little to do with the content.

Harper.4173:

Yes it does take a lot of time and resources invested if you want to raid. But OTHERS are raiding and that means it is doable.
The only problem is that others aren’t willing to bother but still want the benefits of raiding. Without having to actually do the things required.

It’s like me demanding that I get the Exalted Backpiece item skin because I bought HoT and because I want it.
I don’t want to work for it and do Tarir and events to get the collection done – I just want the item – so Anet give it to me because it’s content and I paid for the expansion.

Don’t give me the “timeframe argument” – there are raid groups from EVERY timezone.
I’m on the US server and play on EU time – so I know what it’s like to have difficulty with raiding because of time zones. I found people in my time zone though – I went to the effort of doing it and I did.
And when I couldn’t I made the effort and raided at 3 AM with the US people. Because if you want to do something then you have to sacrifice something.

Most raiding guilds have more than one team – and you can always make your own group.

The logistic I “seemingly take for granted” is there for me because I actually bothered to do things in order to make that logistic happen.
I geared up my characters so I could get into a good raiding guild. I talked to people – I found people in my timezone.
When I couldn’t run with a static group I made PUG groups and led the raid myself – because I wanted the kills and knew nobody was going to do stuff for me unless I did it myself.

Next thing I hear is that starting the game is hard too.

Oh, dear. I like it when ppl like you know better than others what is happening to them despite having no clue whatsoever. No, really, that is quite the super power you got there.

That “I don’t want to work for it” is quite a straw man. It’s not a question of “working for it” it’s a question of logistic like I already said a lot of times already. If it was merely a question of working for it and I was the only one involved it would have looooooooong been a done deal you can believe me. It would be no different than all I did previously for my 9 legendaries, 26k+ AP or the PVP achieves and back pack/Fractals lvl100 and backpack etc. The difference for all the rest in GW" is that no otgher content in game ask you to spend so much time preparing before even trying.

Yes, there are guilds for all time zones, thank you for telling the obvious and missing the point that you can waste a immense load of time just getting a solid stable group even if you are part of such a guild.

The problem is, despite having participated in many such guilds, too often the core group of that guild was already quite close and stable and I often ended not having a lot of opportunities to raid at all with them because of the habit they had taken. Some other guilds were quite frankly not serious about the raid and were making no progress at all so I eventually quit them (there are limits when you see these players never make any progress fooling around). One of the guild I was in imploded when a key member who was unemployed started to work again. I even got kicked once out of a raid guild because I told the leader I could not participate ONE time that he really would have wanted when I was defending my borderland in WvW (seriously…).

Raid also isn’t the only thing I do in GW2 nor is it the most fun thing to me even if I did liked the few encounters and boss kills I got. The guy who “tries nothing” and “doesn’t want to play badly enough” is currently trying to form a group among his primary guild for nth times… but more often than not it’s the joy of pugging that awaits me with all that goes along… and it gets tiresome to organize the pugs only to have one guy leave and too often create a domino effect leading to “let’s try some other day”… But the truth is we wasted more than a hour for quite nothing really….

All this to say that if you got a stable working group for raids gg to you but please kitten about others not having tried or not “wanting badly enough” because, frankly, the truth is you haven’t got a clue whatsoever. Enjoy your situation and stop taking stuff for granted by looking at yourself as a perfectly valid sample of everybody on earth. Ppl who want to have inferential power have quite a few things to deal with to get a representative samples… Oh, and try to lessen the amount of staw men you go for. It doesn’t help.

Harper.4173:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Cyninja.2954:

Astralporing.1957:

Harper.4173:

Astralporing.1957:

Walhalla.5473:

Raids are succeeding where Dungeons failed hard

Considering that dungeons likely were far more popular than raids will ever be, that’s a mighty claim.

People DID dungeons. That doesn’t mean they enjoyed them.

Because everyone that’s running raids is so obviously enjoying them [/sarcasm]

Actually, the common opinion from people who run raids is that the fights are fun, challenging and a full success.

The major complaints come from people who do not raid interestingly enough have difficulties organizing a raid because they’re not going to be bothered to actually do it.

I took the liberty of making a small correction.

I fixed it for you.
If others can do it – so can you.

No, sry but that is utter BS on steroid for many ppl. And I’m polite.

Reality is, it takes a lot of time and opportunities for some to gather all that is required for a raid that they can’t reasonably be expected to invest into.

Even if you can find guilds, many have prerequisites that can be hard to meet for some ppl whose time frame simply isn’t coherent with a lot of guilds. Even if you can theoretically participate in a guild a lot of the time there is already a full group and there isn’t enough for a second one at the moment you can try… it’s a pain.

The only reason I don’t do more raids isn’t because I can’t beat them. I already did for many bosses. The problem is all the logistic you seemingly take for granted that enter the equation each time. The raid isn’t that hard in itself. Getting all set-up can be for many.

Cyninja.2954:

Astralporing.1957:

Harper.4173:

Astralporing.1957:

Walhalla.5473:

Raids are succeeding where Dungeons failed hard

Considering that dungeons likely were far more popular than raids will ever be, that’s a mighty claim.

People DID dungeons. That doesn’t mean they enjoyed them.

Because everyone that’s running raids is so obviously enjoying them [/sarcasm]

Actually, the common opinion from people who run raids is that the fights are fun, challenging and a full success.

The major complaints come from people who do not raid interestingly enough have difficulties organizing a raid for various reasons.

I took the liberty of making a small correction.

Reaper Alim.4176:

Will there be any sort of soft-reset for MMR or should players that had big loss streaks at literally any point in season 3 just skip the trouble and not play from day one?

It’s great that you’re planning on changes in season 5, but you need to not allow your playerbase to become so jaded and discouraged that they quit before it gets here. Something needs to be done in the short-term.

As you see from the forums, the carzy queue times, and the lack of bodies in sPvP. Most of the old sPvP community already got jaded to point of simply not playing sPvP in GW2 perhaps forever. I think ANet is making the right call on this one to not do anything for Season 4. All of the players that are lefted in sPvP in GW2’s now are either the ones that are having fun being met with little resistance, or the players that simply have no place for them in any other like PvP Ranked systems ie. Smite and Paragon, because or whatever reasons. So all and all these players will continue to play GW2’s sPvP regardless of how broken and noncompetitive it is atm.

Honestly I don’t think ANet is really making much money off of it’s current system. Thus cares the least bit about patching it or saving it at this point, but rather is making a completely new system, atleast from what little I understand which is a big step forwards.

However if the new system is not amazing, then you can bet that the players that got alienated and lefted will not return at all. So putting all resources towards making Season 5 a all or nothing drive is the correct way to go. But ANet “Absolutely Has to Figure Out What it Wants to Accomplish, and Who They Want to Cater to” with it’s Ranked PvP matches.

All and all I don’t really see myself playing anymore GW2 Ranked sPvP ever again. I’m just beyond jaded and alienated by the last few Seasons as a solo queuer. I’ve also found greener pastures for myself as a solo queuer so for ANet to pull me and my kind back to the game, they would have to pull what we would called in Eve Online a “Jesus Patch”.

Like I said in previous seasons, MMR or any metrics should not be used period in the match making algorithm. You win, you advance, you loose you do not (maybe even go back). Eventually you will find yourself with ppl of your level of success.

BTW, I find the argument it would take too long to reach your proper place in that fashion absolutely laughable considering how it simply never happened before anyway.

If you are really that good and it’s indeed significantly because of you that your team win you will more often than not advance. If not then you will plateau. No more self-fulfilling prophecies based on MMR or whatever else. You are rewarded on what you factually do under FAIR match-making, not what the system predict you do based on an ever changing team that is built to favor an expected result.

Allure.1249:

Then we had people who I kid you not, would Que into our game on a f2p account, and afk in the starting zone. When asked why they were doing this, the response was "to ensure the MMR balances out for players who are still in the lower brackets. This guy, was a legend on his main account, and was purposefully trying to hinder players from reaching legend, so that he could have the prestige of having the wings, and prevent others from acquiring them.

O_o

Wow, that is a new low for me in pvp.

Dinosaurs.8674:

Ayrilana.1396:

Swagger.1459:

I could see 150 LI if there were a plethora of interesting and different raids to do, professions actually had good roles to build and play, difficulty settings were implemented, build savers/slots/whatever were put in…, but this 150 requirement means you have to tediously beat up these same bosses 150 times…

Which there will be other raids to do and earn LI in. Anet could have just held back legendary armor until there were 3-4 raids available so that those complaining about the “grind” for optional equipment would have less to complain about. The number is likely balanced in regards to the longterm.

Is there any reason to assume that future raids will even drop legendary insights? I’d say it’s more likely that a new raid would have a different ultimate reward altogether and that the current armor will remain tied to the forsaken thicket.

Anet does have a tendency to balance things for the long term (e.g. magnetite reward upon release), but I haven’t seen any evidence suggesting that this particular legendary armor will be obtainable in any way outside of the forsaken thicket.

I think it is a good thing to have that particular skin tied to THAT raid since there is a story around that ties it to THAT raid. The only beef I have is that we can’t get a legendary armor outside of THAT game mode. Having to carry 3 sets of ascended armor irks me a lot and would have welcomed the opportunity to make some space in my bags.

Greymarch.3291:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rovutU4XnE

He makes valid points of how ridiculous the LFG system is abused by Legendary Insights and ideas of how Ascended Gear is needed by some people. Can do it in exotic gear, heck some have even done it in Greens aka [KING]. And that Legendary Insights can and will be faked soooo……..they are pointless for judging skill level they are more so showing how much you have played raids but not so much which bosses you have killed.

PS: Chat Codes are fun!!!

I agree with all he said. Specially the LFG and 10 men being the main obstacle for most players who would like to be into raids.

If you can’t get in a raid guild and fill their prerequisites (whatever they may be), raids are going to be inaccessible for a lot of ppl due to how ridiculously painful the process of making a group is and how easily it can all fall apart if only one leave for whatever reason… I’ve seen smooth pug groups but for each of them I’ve witness how many wasted hours of game play purely trying to put on a group in vain? It’s just not worth it.

Wolfric.9380:

Build diversity would be my carrot. And a per class MMR witout class swap which should lead to more balanced matches…

I really think it make little sense to use a group metric for individuals anyway. It’s profoundly absurd unless the team and it’s comp remains relatively stable. Otherwise what are you even measuring?

ryandeniszorro.6735:

I may been a bit hars on ppl selling raids , but i still think its bad. When person buy raid it does not contribute to raid but worse does not contribute to himself. Even worse, it leads to ppl having tonic or w/e but are completely dumbfounded doing matt , sloth or so.
I personally dont care if anet say , here 50k gems is legi armor , buy it, it does not affect me or my effort toward it. But when i lfg and i find 150+ li ppl not know what is corruption or what is poison on mat for example , and ruining raid it affect me a lot.
So here is why i see one more reason for less li for armor as fine – me and likes of me who pug raid but wish to play with skilled ppl, would have less of problem get ok team.
In general when i sit and think, main reason that i hate raiding lately is li req, little to no skilled players pretending to know leading to fail.
So ye i dont care if ppl get free legi as far as i care but if i can have fun getting mine.

I would normally agree with you but considering the lack of options Anet give ppl who want a legendary armor it becomes clear, and quite legitimate, that farming in the real world as opposed the virtual one is going to be a phenomenon. I hope Anet will be wise about that tho because they could burn themselves if they just want to milk the cow to death. People will remember the options Anet had and the choice they made with the consequences it lead to for the players. Using legendary armor as a reward for the raid is one thing. Using it as a carrot is quite another. Forcing ppl through content they hate to reach anything they desire will never be a good idea in the long term. They made the same mistake with the pvp back item albeit a much less important mistake since you had access to other source of legendary back item elsewhere. These items should no be tied to a game mode IMO. A game mode should simply be one possible path to them.

The problem the huge majority of ppl have with raids isn’t the content itself being hard (Personally, it could still be harder and I’d have no issue with it). It’s the logistic they have to indulge into to even try them in any meaningful ways. Being able to complete raids is first and foremost a question of being privileged (in the game context) and then a question of skill.

My carrot on a stick was, and remain, good/fun matches. The rest is always going to be externalities that once reached you loose interest. The game has to be the carrot. Anything less is but a plaster on an huge open wound.

Make it a toilet with the sound effect and all and I vote for it.

gin.7158:

So I just faced 2 p/p thieves that shot themselves to death. I don’t know if I can survive this 1 month with this matches quality.

It really baffles me how people say unranked matches are fun. It’s more like a circus really.

To be fair, it’s not like one anecdote has anything like the power to infer anything beyond this precise case.

As bad as unranked can often be, ranked has been worse still overall from my perspective. More matches were enjoyable and fair overall than in ranked. And by fair, again, I do not mean 50/50 odds of winning. I mean equal opportunity to get good or bad draw of teammates.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

ellesee.8297:

Hit legend in like 100 games playing mostly core power Engi/scrapper grenade Engi. A lot of games were played with absolutely the worst builds like shredder gyro condi Engi and power FT.

From my experience playing other games with ranking systems like CSGO and League of Legends, there are so many crybabies at the low tier divisions who believe themselves a higher rank than they actually are. Maybe the matchmaking wasn’t perfect, but let’s be honest here. If you are stuck in Ruby, you belong in Ruby. There is no shame in that. Practice the game, get better, and move on. I can’t tell you how many CSGO players I’ve met who have hundreds of matches and still in Silver 2, the second tier in the lowest division because CSGO doesn’t baby its players by withholding pip loss at the lower tiers, but tell me they belong in much higher tiers. Give me a break.

Build diversity is still awful. I feel like they gutted my class. My first love was condi Engi and I spent the first 2 and a half years playing it. I spent way too much time and money making HOPE and yet condi Engi is just godawful so I can’t even use it. I won’t be back for season 4.

You were playing core builds or bad builds in general and made it legend in 100 games?

This is what I’m talking about. I don’t care who you are or how good you are. The kind of competition I was in during S3 simply did not allow core builds or bad builds to even be in play at all. They would get chewed up in about 2s of engagement every time. So if this is serious and not a troll, it seems as yet another testimony towards the presence of account favoritism.

For those of us who have felt the MM algorithm effect it’s plain obvious. This was always my #1 beef against the way the system works. The matches are not meant to be fair one second. And by fair I don’t mean 50/50 I mean you have an eual opportunity to get good teammates or bad ones.

When you can go straight to legendary in 100 matches on sub-optimal builds you more than likely aren’t so much that good then fed a lot of joke matches all the way to glory (the opposite for the poor sod with low/average MMR).

When you are in a team that even if we replaced you with your grand-mother you would still have won there is room to question just how much your “skill” was instrumental to the victory. Basically, they largely engineered self-fulfilling prophecies and might as well have send the badge and title via mail from the get-go if you had a high enough MMR.

dominik.9721:

I’ll just give some critique:

1.
- once you reached a decent winrate you win every game
- you get paired with good players against terrible players
-the leaderboard is a complete joke
- top 10 for example always plays together but never against each other

2.
-the divisions mean nothing
-a bad player in ruby isn’t worse than a bad player in legendary
- every player no matter how bad he is, is able to reach “legendary”
-legendary has absolutly 0 prestige

3.
-a league system does not work with only such a few active pvp players
-therefore you have to let bad players progress to legendary
-otherwise only about 50 players who really deserves it would be there
-you are not able to seperate visibly good players from bad players

—> What should be done imo:

-No leaguesystem anymore just a leaderboard like the old one
- with the difference that everyone gets an ELO which represents his mmr
-everyone starts with 1000 (mmr reset)
- if you lose as low elo player against a high elo player you don’t lose much elo
-not possible to play as 2000 elo player with a 1000 elo player
-create those bullkittenrewards once you break each 1k mark

at least you should try to create a pvp leaderboard which isn’t less competitive than the pve achivement-point-leaderboard

Pretty much this. Many have said this since way before this season but maybe ppl will start waking up after 3 seasons…

Anet had a decision to make regarding the pop they wanted to target with the season event but faced with a N that was probably too low to pick a side they tried to please everyone to preserve as high a N as possible and ended-up kittening everyone.

Ranger always was pretty easy in that regard. The pet and the range you enjoy make a lot of thing easier.

Malediktus.9250:

I think it should be 100 LI per piece (so 600 per set) to make having a full legendary armor set truly prestigious and a rare sight.

What would be prestigious about it if I may ask? I mean, the feat is being able to defeat the bosses. Doing so 10 billions more time simply show you have a lot of time and are well connected in the raid circle not that you are capable of it or not.

Maybe you mean the armor will feel more exclusive. In that case it is true. Very few could reasonably be expected to have the conditions to even try it. But that has nothing to do with prestige or skill.

Raygan.8569:

Aurora glade for instance. We always get rekt and always last compared to other servers. Worst of all I have to force mysef to play it if I want my legendary.

Do any of you have similiar problems?

Define “bad”. Loosing doesn’t mean you are “bad”. If you are overwhelmed for example, you are expected to loose.

Give us something to compare apples with apples.

Ocosh.5843:

It’s the end of another PvP season full of temper tantrums, screaming, crying, and general bad times for a lot of people, and all I can say is: Stop. Why do you care so much? None of it means anything.

Who am I to tell you this? Just a regular (now casual) PvPer who completed the achievement for crossing division thresholds in Season 2, which means, yes, I reached Legendary division (over 95% solo-queue), even though I am nowhere near what one would consider a “legend” at PvP in this game. (In fact, the only reason I competed this season was because I didn’t buy the doodads when I was supposed to do it, and so I didn’t get credit for half the achievements in S1/2 — ultimately just to have the option open to build a backpiece I probably won’t bother to make.)

What are you after? Prestige? Reward? You’re willing to become this upset for virtual prizes?

The purpose of the sPvP Seasons is twofold:

• First, to generate interest in competitive PvP, to draw more viewers to the Twitch showings of the Pro-League matches and increase revenue.

• Second, to perhaps induce people to form teams, to broaden the talent base from which to select participants in the Pro-League matches, generating more interest and viewers and increasing revenue.

Don’t forget that this whole thing was cooked up by the Marketing Department.

Yes, the matchmaking system is pretty bad, because the matchmaking system cannot determine individual skill in an automated team match, simply based on win/loss and the awarding of pips in broad, color-coded classifications. A large portion of the populace is lumped around the heart of the bell curve, within a couple standard deviations of the mean, and it’s going to throw everybody, above and below, into the same pool.

Why do you fret about your division? Do you care what other people think of you? Sure, it was nice to get that little black badge and run around for a few weeks, but I, and everybody else who PvP’ed, knew that it didn’t really mean I was good, just that I played enough, especially as it’s possible to grind to legend with a losing record — and I’m not just talking about stockpiling losses at the bottom of a division.

Sample Numbers if you don't believe me

hide spoiler

It’s a matter of the extra pips for streaks.
Let’s say you win 5 in a row. The third, fourth, and fifth victories will award 2 pips apiece, for a total of 8.
You can then lose the next 7 games and still be +1.
You win 5 more in a row. Every win except the second one will give 2 pips, for a total of 9.
You lose the next 8.
Over these 25 games, you have gone 10-15 (a 40% win rate) and are at +2 pips. It’s a hell of a way to get there, but the point is you can fail more than you succeed and still reach the top.

Do you really care about a Legendary-quality back item? If you PvP, it doesn’t carry any prestige, because everyone knows you can just grind for it. Whatever sense of accomplishment you gain will consequently be fleeting.

If you PvE, you can either a) get the fractal one, or b) get any other ascended one because you need at most two sets of stats for PvE.

If you WvW, you might have call for several different stat sets, but this is a back item: the lowest stat budgeted equipment piece in the game. You know it barely matters.

So, why do you become agitated? Why do you post about the awful matchmaking, your lousy teammates (your inability to recognize your own shortcomings), the imbalance, the unfairness, etc.? Why do you throw fits, throw matches, afk, curse out strangers from the safety of the Internet? Are the losses wasting your time? You’re playing a video game; the time was already wasted.

Relax. It doesn’t matter. If you’re not having fun, don’t play the game. If you can’t have fun unless you’re winning, you shouldn’t be playing games.

Just to clear this out from the get go I stopped pvp season the moment I got the back piece exactly for the reasons you advocate. Why should I continue inflicting myself this game mode when it clearly offer me very little fun (unranked is FAR better in every way possible if I like to pvp for the shake of pvp – and I do).

That being said, I can understand why ppl would transform into absolute monsters when inside pvp seasons. For many of us, soloq is the only reasonable way of playing the seasons to get titles, AP or the back piece (yes, for many these are the motivation to play). Soloq means the amount of control you have on any given outcome can be very frustrating and with the algorithm it can mean you are kittened period regardless of how good you are.

Combine this with all the waiting you have to endure, the clear injustice you are served some times, the trolling or sad behavior you got to stomach and if you can remain zen no matter what you are a rare bird indeed.

I’ve sometimes seen myself become someone I hated to the point I had to PM some players to apologize for the sad human being I had devolved into. We are humans and the way this context is set-up goes beyond the toxicity of the usual competition. You too often feel powerless is the problem but at the same time your motivation calls you back in the game… No motivation to play = no game but going after your goal = suckitup… not fun really…

Guillotine Princess.9341:

Why is there an cap for achievement points concerning daily/monthly totals?

Per wiki : There is a cap of 15,000 Arenanet Points.png for daily and now-defunct monthly achievements combined. Once the cap is reached, additional points from the “Daily Completionist” meta achievement will no longer increase the account’s achievement points, but individual reward bonus chests will still be given out.

Frankly, I would reward 0 AP for dailies and monthlies if I had my say (and I got over 26k AP myself btw).

APs should mean something instead of just being a cheap reward track. It should be a measure of what you have accomplished in the game instead of just a variation of “/age” and how “crazy checklist oriented” you are.

Chris McSwag.4683:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Malediktus.9250:

FrizzFreston.5290:

If this requirement was made 4 years or so ago people would all be like “I thought you said no grind philosophy?”

These days its “Everything has a price, grinding doesnt matter”

Personally I’ll be glad if can finish the bosses once. Getting it done so many times after that effort feels like a cheap way to keep people playing.

welcome to MMOs where rewards make replayability
A MMO without any grinding would be dead after 3 months unless it had thousands of developers to make half an expansion sized content patch every 2 weeks.

Im just pointing out the contrast. Obviously there’s a balance. This doesn’t mean that any grinding is okay because MMOs need grinding. There’s definitely areas in the game that could be turned down some to make it more enjoyable for more than people with nothing else to do.

Yet another person twisting the meaning of no grind philosophy to fit their own opinions. The philosophy is about NO MANDATORY GRIND, I.e. Not releasing new level caps or tiers frequently. The legendary armor has the same stats as ascended, is by no means required(but possibly nice to have) and does therefore not go against the philosophy. Someone starting now need to do 9 bosses, once a week for 16 or so weeks and while the time gate is there it can hardly be called a grind. It’s 2-3h per week for a good group, not too bad hey?

It is a LOT more than 2-3h for ppl who have to pug it all tho. I’m still trying to find myself a raid guild that will accept to have a player that hasn’t clear all bosses yet.

The Spanish inquisition I have to face each and every time I pug a group (ping everything including your underwear and answer this 200 pages survey about you) make it so painful to even try raid that it has simply become not worth it at all.

What is truly sad about content like the raid is that it isn’t really the content that is hard. It’s getting enough ppl to do it.

Malediktus.9250:

fishball.7204:

The onus is on ANet to create armor that is legendary and isn’t tied to raids.

If ANet actually made another legendary armor set that’d just be a win win for everybody. Raiders get their set, no change. Other people who hate raids, get their set. 2 different sets, different skins, different playstyles.

Trying to settle for less LIs as a lesser option would probably cause more harm than good in the long run. You should be pushing for ANet to add non raid legendary armor instead of trying to get LIs nerfed.

If Anet would make a new set for non raiders, it would either look “worse” or the raiding parts like 150 LI would get replaced by another immense and probably time gated grind. People would still complain for sure because it wont be less time consuming to get.

1) Why would it have to look worse? I mean, seriously?

2)The 150 LI would be replaced by something equivalent but I don’t see the problem if what you have to do to get it is fun to you. Getting “badges of honor” is going to be natural for WvW players for example because they would play WvW regardless of the fact there is an armor to get or not.

3)People mostly complain about what they have to do for so long not just that it is long.

Ayrilana.1396:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Ayrilana.1396:

Let’s make all dungeon armor available for just 1 token each. Let’s make all items from the HoT vendor just one currency each. After all, it won’t hurt anybody…

I think your reading skills need some more practice. Seriously, this kind of ridiculous straw man is what make forums so kitten aggravating so often.

Your interpretation skills need some practice. It’s not a strawman as the whole concept is around the argument that some are making that if it doesn’t hurt anyone then it is okay. Asking for the LI needed to be reduced is no different than asking for the currency needed for anything else in the game to be reduced.

The problem comes from you replying to all and not to the one or two you say you were targeting then. From what I’ve been reading that argument was not really the core of the problem for the vast majority. Yes, some did use poor argumentation but that is hardly what most have a problem with.

fishball.7204:

The onus is on ANet to create armor that is legendary and isn’t tied to raids.

If ANet actually made another legendary armor set that’d just be a win win for everybody. Raiders get their set, no change. Other people who hate raids, get their set. 2 different sets, different skins, different playstyles.

Trying to settle for less LIs as a lesser option would probably cause more harm than good in the long run. You should be pushing for ANet to add non raid legendary armor instead of trying to get LIs nerfed.

I agree completely. The only reason most ppl complain is because of the lack of alternative.

I myself like to do some raid occasionally and I do have a few LI but the logistic of it all in the context I have to play make 150 LI an obscene amount to get. They didn’t just make a collection that asked ppl to clear all of the raid to get it. They force ppl to repeat it all ad nauseam.

Ayrilana.1396:

Let’s make all dungeon armor available for just 1 token each. Let’s make all items from the HoT vendor just one currency each. After all, it won’t hurt anybody…

I think your reading skills need some more practice. Seriously, this kind of ridiculous straw man is what make forums so kitten aggravating so often.

fishball.7204:

It’s not unreasonable to want non raid legendary armor but it is kinda unreasonable to request a nerf to the raid one just because people want it.

I don’t go into PvP asking that they make it easier to get The Ascension and I’d rightly so get laughed out of there.

You don’t because you have alternatives for legendary backpacks or weapons. Only armor offer no alternatives.

I’m all for making stuff(stuff not skin) extremely hard to get as long as the way to get it isn’t a game sentence of ultimate boredom and frustration. Offer alternatives or be prepared to lower the number of bananas you ask ppl to ingest (not everybody likes bananas all that much) on their way to whatever you have locked behind a pile of bananas.

fishball.7204:

Already explained it before, lowering LI lowers the prestige since it’ll be far easier to obtain by simply doing VG/gors/escort every week for ezpz LIs.

I don’t sell raids, never have never will since I don’t like scrubs getting LIs.

And it’s no one not know one.

Go ask ANet for WvW/PvP/non raid PvE legendary armor instead of trying to nerf the raid legendary armor to suit people who clearly hate raiding.

People did asked for that and continue to ask for that even in this very thread. However, so long as raid remain the only source of legendary armor there will be an immense pressure on the requirement for legendary armor being lowered. You cant reasonably expect anything else.

Most ppl do not want instant gratification. They want a long term goal where they will have to walk a path they do not find putrid. That isn’t exactly unreasonable to ask for really…

Sykper.6583:

eldrin.6471:

Its not the number of insights that bothers some its more the time gate they cause.
il repeat what has been said now for 13 pages.for those with static groups we are talking 4 months,this could be as long as 6 months to a year for players with no static group using lfg every week.for raids to survive and continue being developed they must attract players.haveing the rewards locked behind massive time gates will only shorten there life span.that dont bother the i got mine kitten crowd.

Time-gates actually facilitate length of content being played.

If the LI investment was something radically reduced, there would be no incentive for those interested in the Legendary Armor to repeat the raid content.

As has been pointed out so many times before, 25 LI per Legendary piece is not a terribly high threshold, because that’s it. Nothing is better than Ascended/Legendary. There could even be an argument that getting Legendary Armor in Forsaken Thicket, might deter future content where Legendary Armor is able to be acquired. It’s a finale of sorts for your character.

4-6 months of killing raid bosses is not an unreasonable goal, especially in light that you can start crafting certain aesthetically pleasing parts first. No other Legendary in the game has this luxury, more or less every other legendary is a solo gig but requires a similar investment as what the Legendary Armor set as a whole seems to indicate.

But therein lies the problem… several players are motivated by a legendary armor not the raid. The problem is they have to ingest absurd amount of putrid content to them to get to that armor. Of course 4-6 months (heck, even a year) of what you like or at least do not hate is no problem. But they locked that content behind raid only…

If we could have other legendary armor skins from other part of the game you could augment the LI to 25 stacks for all I care. Have fun and good riddance. However, it is not the case at all. The way to legendary armor is the raid way or go home. Some will farm with real life money and I can’t blame them one bit for it (not something Anet will find bad I imagine but it that might end up costing them in the long run if they are careless about the topic).

Aitadis.8269:

It’s only 150 gold in gems to come to Crystal Desert since it is set to medium for population Best time to come over since it’s cheaper and there is room. So if you have a guild and want to come by all means.

CD? Go to CD??!!!! You guys don’t need more pop (medium pop lol). T4 need servers that are closer in pop and coverage to have anything fun so plz fill anything else but CD on T4. At least for now…

fishball.7204:

PvP and WvW should have their own legendary armor and not the raid one. It makes no sense to allow raid’s legendary armor to be earned in other game modes.

I’m sure a lot of people would like to have legendary armor but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t put forth the effort to raid and get the armor like the rest of us. Not everything has to be handed to them on a silver platter.

I agree that the skin for each game mode should be unique. I’m just suggesting that there should be a way to get “legendary” armor out of other game mode (albeit with a different skin showing the origin)

I think giving ppl alternative to get LI might help a lot of ppl who can’t possibly dedicate the time to raid that much each week. That or raise the weekly limit of LI you can get.

Offering ways to get legendary armor from other part of the game would also be a good idea… A lot of ppl would like to have legendary armor but raiding is a logistic pain for them for any numbers of reasons. If your main occupation in GW2 is WvW or PvP you should still have means of getting a legendary armor skin too.

Putting an unwanted game mode between a player and a skin is one thing but doing so for a basic gear mechanic (legendary armor regardless of skin) is not a good idea. And, no, ascended having the same stats is not an acceptable counter to this.

Raygan.8569:

From now on I will name all my hate posts like this.

I hate these things. Same could be said about all HoT enemies but these take the spot. The melee ones are easy enough but the ranged ones (zappers and lobbers) and the one veteran with the thorns shield are the worst. People complain about the damage that HoT enemies do and these are no different. Anything below 16k HP gets taken down instantly by the veterans nearly impossible to see zap plus they are always accompanied by lobbers and zappers. Makes some areas in the TD impossible to travel.
(Dont even mention chak sentries because devs think they were such a great idea.)

Chaks are fantastic let them be! Not everything in the game has to be a defenseless goblin waiting to explode when the protagonist look at it.

Give yourself some times and you will learn to deal with them properly. Same for Mordrems and the rest…

Wolfric.9380:

right :-). But if someone talks about skill, PvE is usualy not included.

Granted. PVE let you play all you care to play anyway.

I’m so tired of saying this… plz stop lumping all builds and all game mode together as if all the same.

No profession is only hard or easy. They all have faceroll builds in any given context or very unforgiving ones in others. Ele is no exception.

It’s not impossible at all. The problem, like in S2, is it’s going to be hugely influenced by your MMR rather than your factual play skill at that moment.

If you have high MMR you could probably metaphorically sleep on your keyboard and win since you will be given players with the best odds of winning while having to fight players who are clear underdogs (the kind of matches you can win even if you have 1 of your teammate dc).

If you are of low MMR the MM will stack the odds so badly against you any pro players would loose too to what they would have to contend with if they were in your shoes.

The mid MMR zone is where you will have easy and hard matches with the consequence of making win streaks possibly very hard to get and keep going.

The most important factor in any game outcome is, and always will be no matter how godly you are, who the MM pair you with and against. Long story short, the MM still handle very poorly soloquing even if it is by far, at least I think it is, the way the huge majority play the game.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Deborah.7248:

“a 50% winrate guarantees progression”

This is false. The key to progressing is purely in how you win, not some magical winrate %.

3 examples:
Person A: W, L, W, L, W, L, W, W, L, L, W, L, etc 50% winrate 0 pip gain
Person B: W, W, W, L, L, L, W, W, W, L, L, L, etc 50% winrate 2 pip gain
Person C: W, W, W, L, L, L, L, W, W, W, L, L, L, L, 43% winrate 1 pip gain

B and C can hit legendary by repeating the pattern thru sheer number of games, while A cannot despite being better than C and equal to B.

I know it’s unrealistic to expect these 3 patterns to repeat with no deviation but the point remains. Basically if you can not abuse the double pip gain one way or another you can not advance with ‘just’ a 50% winrate. If you can win 3 matches in a row and have a winrate above 43% you deserve to be in legendary. The only limiting factor is number of games played to hit the necessary combo of double pip gains to pull it off.

Still, I have my back-pack so I can play more relaxed now…

The true problem here. Playing for a backpack vs Playing to win.

Loss when playing for a backpack = Salt, tears, lamentations, cursing of Anet, etc.

Loss when playing to win = Take loss for what it was, seek to reach greater heights of self improvement in next match.

I think you misunderstood me if you think the backpack is what has drawn me to pvp. I pvp since year 1 and I like pvp for the competition. I always play to the end and to win and I’m not afraid to say I’m an asset to teams I’m playing on with my main.

However, the way the MM work has often, too often, been very frustrating for me inside the frame of the new seasons (for several reasons that are not even related with advancement at all). The logic behind individual MMR is pure garbage and has too often lead to mediocre pvp experiences for me. I had hoped Anet would have made a choice about who their target audience was going to be (elite or casual idc) but they didn’t chose. The pvp experience being inferior inside the season has left me with little but the backpack to motivate me is all…

I’m glad if you are having a blast but for me it’s either us stomping or getting stomped… not much to be exited about one way or the other…

Danicus.4952:

I am an experienced casual player. 13K APs, 950 WVW rank, Closer to the Stars, done dungeons, raids, crafted ascended gear etc, etc. I’ve read quite a few honest postings about frustrations with HOT, and the trend in responses has been to respond to the OP by saying “learn to play better” or “I did it just fine, there is something the matter with you.”

I personally find HOT uninviting as a solo PVE player. It lacks the difficulty progression structure present in most games. It demands group (zerg) participation for individual rewards. It requires the development of mobility masteries to effectively access map areas efficiently. It loads the player with an ocean of inventory filling currencies or keys. It creates an unprecedented level of grind for goals.

I’ve completed the HOT personal story with a rev, and moved partially through with 4 other characters.

I’ve completed the new specializations with all classes. I find them fun and interesting additions to the game (imo the best part of the expansion) – getting HOT HPs pretty annoying of course. I must admit, I turned in some WVW credits to unlock some HOT HPs.

I was really looking forward to HOT, but am truly ambivalent about the expansion maps at this point – even with the nerfs.

I find myself now checking in, hitting the daily and getting out.

Pretty sure I won’t buy another GW2 expansion – especially if it follows the map design and skill progression structure HOT model. It’s a shame – I am a long time dedicated GW player – sorry to see the franchise pick this path.

My core point is, telling an OP that is frustrated with HOT to “L2P” or “I did it, what is the matter with you?” is missing the mark. There are authentic design departures here, and they are not friendly to the casual player.

First of all, I’m not a casual and I don’t want HOT to be nerfed at all. I want nothing nerfed. I like hard content.

However, it kittenes me off when I hear/read someone say something in the lines of " I could do it, what is your excuse to not do it".

This mentality is pure kitten. If you reason that way you are responsible for tons of things that make the world a kittenty place. Everybody is different and has a different story and context. Do not EVER try to put yourself as the standard others should measure up to. If others find hard what you think is easy there is a reason for it and it’s seldom them being lazy but you/us being ignorant of others.

Deborah.7248:

“a 50% winrate guarantees progression”

This is false. The key to progressing is purely in how you win, not some magical winrate %.

3 examples:
Person A: W, L, W, L, W, L, W, W, L, L, W, L, etc 50% winrate 0 pip gain
Person B: W, W, W, L, L, L, W, W, W, L, L, L, etc 50% winrate 2 pip gain
Person C: W, W, W, L, L, L, L, W, W, W, L, L, L, L, 43% winrate 1 pip gain

B and C can hit legendary by repeating the pattern thru sheer number of games, while A cannot despite being better than C and equal to B.

I know it’s unrealistic to expect these 3 patterns to repeat with no deviation but the point remains. Basically if you can not abuse the double pip gain one way or another you can not advance with ‘just’ a 50% winrate. If you can win 3 matches in a row and have a winrate above 43% you deserve to be in legendary. The only limiting factor is number of games played to hit the necessary combo of double pip gains to pull it off.

Yeah, it’s not merely a matter of winning half the time. How you do it matter a lot. Win streaks are important to reach high levels WLWLWL while being 50% still yield no pip gain while LLLWWWL is below 50% and give you 1 pip. Having 50% win rate isn’t really hard. Getting that third win in a row OTOH when you are of average MMR…

Still, I have my back-pack so I can play more relaxed now…

Gnat.9405:

trunks.5249:

only for 20sec

I loled too.

JTGuevara.9018:

There’s been a lot of chatter lately about hybrid/condition warriors and about how overpowered they are. Frankly, it’s just not true. After warriors were pretty much ROADKILL these past 6-7 months, we finally got a buff to our sustainability, only to find that people cannot adapt!

It seems to be that players got too comfortable dealing with easy warrior kills these past two seasons, now all of a sudden, a number of you say we’re the “noob/low-skill” class again. It’s actually more like some of you need to STEP IT UP!

To my point, warriors are not OP. As a warrior main, I’ll share the weaknesses. People tend to have trouble with the condi melee-variant(sw/torch + mace/shield) so I’ll share that.

We are melee. That means we can barely disengage. Sword 2-leap is all we have. We can’t teleport, we can’t stealth, we can’t move away from the fight quickly in any substantial way. This opens us up for chills, cripples and immobilizes. Also, CC doesn’t really work on us because of our access to stab and multiple stun breaks, but soft CC like daze gives us problems. To reap the rewards for our sustainability and healing, we HAVE to hit our bursts, which brings me to this: blinds. Blinds are an obvious weakness for us. A warrior is a demolisher, if he can’t hit his target(s) then he’s easier to put down. I will say we’re ridiculously strong in 1v1, but in team fights we are vulnerable to the stuff I said above. I think Druids, Scrappers and yes, DH can handle our condi-melee builds.

All in all, we’re not invincible. We CAN be beaten.

The current meta war build is not OP nor invincible but it is faceroll compared to a lot of other builds. Even if I hardly ever play my war/berserker I get stupidly ez results with it.

The only bad thing about such a build is when you get kitten talk by one of these when they win a fight they couldn’t possibly loose in 1 v 1. It get some ppl the idea they are awesome when it really isn’t them…

Doggie.3184:

It’s a false flag so he wasn’t exploiting or doing anything wrong. The person who reported him was abusing the system.

Ridiculous. The one abusing the system is the AFKer not the guy angry to see a leeching player.

It is clearly an abusive conduct to take server space if you aren’t even there playing yourself to contribute meaningfully to the map experience. Too many like that is why meta events can fail even when a map is full.

I’ll do the minimum I have to do to finish my back piece this season (reach emerald or saphire) and then I’m done for good. Last season match making was pure nightmare for me and I sure won’t inflict myself the same more than I need to. Such a shame tho…

Wait, wait ,wait… am I to understand that they made no change at all to match making for S3? That I’m doomed to be put with the same kind of players forever if I soloq?

penelopehannibal.8947:

So I’ve heard a off a few people now, especially in PvP and in the forums, that some builds are called ‘Cheese’ builds. But what exactly is a cheese build?

Any build that give more than what you have to sacrifice for it.

You do great damage? It should cost you great defense.
You are unkillable? You should not be able to kill anything.

If you are unkillable and can still do very good damage you more than likely smell like cheese. What? You think most ppl in pvp go for these lame skilless builds thinking they are good? You are right…

Magira.6390:

Bah, it’s all bad. Roaming is pointless at each camp are defenders, most camps are fully equipped and additionally provided with guild extensions. At Tower (I have previously taken alone) is not to be thought.
The (old) Maps are absolute junk for Roamer, only now I realize how good Desert Borderlands were.
Currently I am on Gandara. Makes a server switch to a less populated Server sense or is it “thanks” World Linking all so bad.

Weird because I mostly roam and I find the ABL a lot more roamer friendly than the DBL ever were due the how open they are compared to the DBL (specially when they had barricades).

The server merge make it a lot more difficult to flip stuff solo but I like the increase challenge of it.

Cerby.1069:

Personally I just find it sad that the developers listened to a minority group just because they whined all over the internet about not wanting to learn something new. Really shows weakness on the developer side of things. They shoulda done an ingame vote or tested ‘actual’ players. Most of the people wanting alpine back were just bandwagon joiners….they have no recollection or memory of the problems alpine has/had as a map. It’s a case of them just wanting something like a 5 year old does and not even realizing what they are getting. You could give them the original Alpine map with exploits ahoy in them and people jumpin into towers and stuff with the HoT updates and they would kid themselves into thinking it was still better than desert.

Where does the conviction it was a “minority” that were unsatisfied come from? You absolutely did not needed to look at the forum to understand that the DBL were disliked by a lot more than a “minority”.

Your conviction that it’s only amnesic bandwagoneer that wanted ABL back is even more WTFesque to me. The more I hear ppl who want the DBL, the more I begin to see a pattern between EoTM and DBL love from them. The vision of what WvW ought to be is just incredibly different for ppl who like EoTM and ppl who never did. DBL was EoTM 2.0. Do not look further than that to understand the love hate of the beast.

Johje Holan.4607:

I agree that the orbs (relics) coming back would be awesome. They were so fun. They created some of the best fights.

It did tend to make the strong stronger though. To change this Anet could make it only an advantage for the losing/weaker servers.

I think it is a nice idea to only make the orb give the non-leading server a boon. That way the leading server would not get stronger still but would want to keep the orb out of the other server’s hands to prevent them from benefiting from it.

As for the thread and the ideas promoted, as well as the “problems” outlined, I can only conclude that we really do not see things the same at all me and the OP.

The irony of reading ppl telling you to adapt then complain about the change back to ABL… They sure seem like they are adapting well to that change themselves…