Guild Wars 2

adozu.6398:

a) wvw doesn’t even TRY to be balanced
b) wvw has many more bad players than pvp has
c) wvw builds have diff priorities than just dueling

of course there is more build diversity, i can run GS/rifle warrior roaming and do 1v2 and pretend GS and rifles are good weapons for pvp just because of the average quality of roamers.

and of course zerg oriented builds are another beast entirely.

Hence why I said i disagree with all other prof having it easier. It depend on context. In WvW I would probably shed as many tears for a thief as you would a d/d celestial ele in pvp.

Shockwave.1230:

In a team fight I think staff Ele has it easier, but in 1v1s D/P thief would definitely have it easier.

It’s all situational as to what’s better when though

That is a much more reasonable assessment. Thank you.

As for the guy who is posting images of poor damage on a backstab, I can just as easily show you (thanks to someone who posted this glorious moment of mine going down pretty hard and bad looking) just how much I personally loose from the same attack. It all depend on who you hit.

In PvP people tend to be bunkerish because the game is a conquest one where he who stays in the ring wins. My lava font also do very unspectacular damage on them. Beside, thieves rarely only unleash one lone backstab when they unload their ini…

In WvW the build diversity tend to vary a lot more (my perception) even if there is a trend for bunker that I suspect is in large part the result of people being 3 shots by thieves once too many times. I know I was and how frustrating it can be to not even know what hit us until it’s too late to come back… being stomped by an invisible foe is the nail on the coffin.

Shockwave.1230:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Shockwave.1230:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Sandrox.9524:

Tbh,if the thief has reset the fight,you won.Gw2 pvp is not about 1v1,and ppl always forget this.50% headstart is really your fault,either you are squishy as the thief,or cant tell when thief is nearby.l2p on this.staff eles on point are IMPOSSIBLE to kill by thieves. you just sit on point spam aoe and the thief wont even dare to step in and backstab you.full zerk staff ele can do 3-5k dmg on meteor shower every sec to a thief.

Well, your reply only make sense if we only look at pvp otherwise I disagree. It only mean the fight continue and that the thief still has it’s chance. He made a mistake and he has the luxury to correct himself and try again until he gets it. As a staff ele I can’t. If I make a mistake I have to live with it til I hit the ground or he does because he made an even bigger mistake in the following attempts.

As for my build being my fault I totally agree and I assume it perfectly. I have no problem being a free lunch to thief. My problem is having someone telling me I have it easy because I have AoE. Like I said before, let’s switch places and we shall find out how easy I have it.

BTW, I mostly play WvW and I do agree there is a difference with S and tpvp but that changes nothing to what I said. Sure you can MS a point in pvp, and I do, but the 30 sec cool down makes it far from spammable and the thief, unless an idiot or locked in place, will not get killed by that. It’s the main problem with a staff ele. You have to use your cc to make your AoE do anything worthwhile and be a master of anticipation. Sure, in pvp the cap is making our job way easier, but in WvW it is a completely different matter.

You should watch Josre play staff Ele. It’s a pain to fight him, because he kites so well and uses his CC so well.

He’s easily the best staff Ele in the game right now, IMO.

Ask him questions, because his staff Ele is not a free kill to thieves.

Does he play Celestial or Zerker? I don’t play Zerker because I can’t play Celestial. I play Zerker because I like the challenge to do as well as possible with it. I also tend to ignore meta. If everyone play one way it becomes stinking material to me. I’m like that. When I initially adopted the 00266 staff spec it wasn’t me going on forums and meta websites and stealing others ideas. It was after naturally testing builds until I struck a balance I was comfortable to play and where synergy was maximal.

I can kite many thieves for a long time when I use my cc well. The problem isn’t there. The problem is some people apparently think other professions necessarily have it easier than a thief because of AoE. Don’t tell me you agree with that too? I’m absolutely certain the guy you talk about would loose to a thief that has as much experience in his thief as he has with his ele. It’s not a question of l2p. It’s a natural rock-paper-scissor case like it exist for pretty much everyone.

Rock paper scissors exists between various classes. Dps guards for example have it easy v thief. Same for Cele engi, same for Cele Ele, same for condi engi, same for condi necro, etc. The game isn’t balance around these 1v1 at chips exclusively though.

Since you’re zerker Ele, I’d imagine you can be just as be bursted down by a Mesmer if not more easily. I’d imagine you can easily be bursted by a power Ranger that catches you out of earth as well. It doesn’t really make sense for you to be arguing the points you’re arguing on the basis you are using.

I think you are selective in what you read. What doesn’t make sense when I say others do not have it easier than thief? I never argued I couldn’t be bursted just as easily by a Mesmer or a power ranger. In fact they can inflict as much damage in a burst. The difference is how surprising the initial strike will be but that is beside the point. The sole reason I replied here to begin with had to do with the claim other professions who have AoE have it easy. That claim is ridiculous and I’m perfectly willing to play my thief if someone want to play a staff ele to see who has it easier… I don’t know why you guys are continuously avoiding what I actually say instead of just admitting that claim was just BS and be done with it.

Shockwave.1230:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Sandrox.9524:

Tbh,if the thief has reset the fight,you won.Gw2 pvp is not about 1v1,and ppl always forget this.50% headstart is really your fault,either you are squishy as the thief,or cant tell when thief is nearby.l2p on this.staff eles on point are IMPOSSIBLE to kill by thieves. you just sit on point spam aoe and the thief wont even dare to step in and backstab you.full zerk staff ele can do 3-5k dmg on meteor shower every sec to a thief.

Well, your reply only make sense if we only look at pvp otherwise I disagree. It only mean the fight continue and that the thief still has it’s chance. He made a mistake and he has the luxury to correct himself and try again until he gets it. As a staff ele I can’t. If I make a mistake I have to live with it til I hit the ground or he does because he made an even bigger mistake in the following attempts.

As for my build being my fault I totally agree and I assume it perfectly. I have no problem being a free lunch to thief. My problem is having someone telling me I have it easy because I have AoE. Like I said before, let’s switch places and we shall find out how easy I have it.

BTW, I mostly play WvW and I do agree there is a difference with S and tpvp but that changes nothing to what I said. Sure you can MS a point in pvp, and I do, but the 30 sec cool down makes it far from spammable and the thief, unless an idiot or locked in place, will not get killed by that. It’s the main problem with a staff ele. You have to use your cc to make your AoE do anything worthwhile and be a master of anticipation. Sure, in pvp the cap is making our job way easier, but in WvW it is a completely different matter.

You should watch Josre play staff Ele. It’s a pain to fight him, because he kites so well and uses his CC so well.

He’s easily the best staff Ele in the game right now, IMO.

Ask him questions, because his staff Ele is not a free kill to thieves.

Does he play Celestial or Zerker? I don’t play Zerker because I can’t play Celestial. I play Zerker because I like the challenge to do as well as possible with it. I also tend to ignore meta. If everyone play one way it becomes stinking material to me. I’m like that. When I initially adopted the 00266 staff spec it wasn’t me going on forums and meta websites and stealing others ideas. It was after naturally testing builds until I struck a balance I was comfortable to play and where synergy was maximal.

I can kite many thieves for a long time when I use my cc well. The problem isn’t there. The problem is some people apparently think other professions necessarily have it easier than a thief because of AoE. Don’t tell me you agree with that too? I’m absolutely certain the guy you talk about would loose to a thief that has as much experience in his thief as he has with his ele. It’s not a question of l2p. It’s a natural rock-paper-scissor case like it exist for pretty much everyone.

Sandrox.9524:

Tbh,if the thief has reset the fight,you won.Gw2 pvp is not about 1v1,and ppl always forget this.50% headstart is really your fault,either you are squishy as the thief,or cant tell when thief is nearby.l2p on this.staff eles on point are IMPOSSIBLE to kill by thieves. you just sit on point spam aoe and the thief wont even dare to step in and backstab you.full zerk staff ele can do 3-5k dmg on meteor shower every sec to a thief.

Well, your reply only make sense if we only look at pvp otherwise I disagree. It only mean the fight continue and that the thief still has it’s chance. He made a mistake and he has the luxury to correct himself and try again until he gets it. As a staff ele I can’t. If I make a mistake I have to live with it til I hit the ground or he does because he made an even bigger mistake in the following attempts.

As for my build being my fault I totally agree and I assume it perfectly. I have no problem being a free lunch to thief. My problem is having someone telling me I have it easy because I have AoE. Like I said before, let’s switch places and we shall find out how easy I have it.

BTW, I mostly play WvW and I do agree there is a difference with S and tpvp but that changes nothing to what I said. Sure you can MS a point in pvp, and I do, but the 30 sec cool down makes it far from spammable and the thief, unless an idiot or locked in place, will not get killed by that. It’s the main problem with a staff ele. You have to use your cc to make your AoE do anything worthwhile and be a master of anticipation. Sure, in pvp the cap is making our job way easier, but in WvW it is a completely different matter.

Piratoz.8627:

The Fiery Greatword elite needs to be reworked to give less mobility. However, its damaging abilities should be vastly improved and it should feel powerful. Of course I am no expert at balance however a concept for a reworked FGS would be this:

(Skill 1) Flame Wave: Similar to how it is now in functionality and damage, however now its projectiles each have a 20% chance of being a projectile finisher.

(Skill 2) Lava Tomb: Range 600. Cooldown 8 seconds. Duration 4 seconds. 0.5 second cast time. Ground Targeted AOE. Stab your sword into the ground and summon 3 lava pools that also count as fire fields. Radius would be similar to the traited(Blasting Staff) staff lava font.

It would look similar to the ember NPC attack with 3 lava fonts spaced closely together in a triangle shape. Each lava font does about half the damage of a staff lava font. Since these fonts overlap, keeping an enemy in the center sweet spot will deal the damage of all 3 lava fonts and keeping an enemy in the other overlaps would deal 2x damage. This would also be affected by the trait persisting flames.

(Skill 3) Fiery Whirl: The same but with an 10 second cooldown instead of a 5 second cooldown.

(Skill 4) Fiery Eruption: 600 range. 20 second cooldown. 2 sec knockup. 0.75 second cast time. 0.25 sec delay between when a red circle would appear beneath the enemy and the eruption. Ground Targeted AOE.

Stab your sword into the ground, dealing moderate damage, and knock up/launch enemies caught in the AOE radius. The AOE size would be similar to the untraited staff lava font. Applies 6 sec of burning.

(Skill 5) Firestorm: The same as it is now.

Example picture for skill 2:

Firestorm as it is now is weaker than the ice bow version. That can’t possibly be right for an ultimate. Ice bow has better range, better damage and cause bleed on top of it. Skill 5 is a joke.

You also have to factor in that a conjured weapon replace your weapon skills so you expect the loss of your 20 weapon skills to be compensated by that conjure otherwise it simply isn’t battle worthy for a profession that is so fragile.

What you propose only nerf the only “good” use that remains out of that “elite”: movement. The little tweaks you propose are far from making up for the trade. VERY far.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Playing other classes is the best you can do to learn how to fight them. Better investment of your time that looking at thief forums to QQ. Your problem is that you find thieves annoying and you don’t want to see anything else.

The irony is I didn’t came here to QQ and I do play all 8 classes at lvl 80 like I said before. It was curiosity that bring me here and a very ridiculous post about other professions needing no skills and only spamming AoE that made me reply.

My real argument that many here have avoided like the pest apparently was: try what I play and I’ll pick my thief vs you and we will see how easy other have it compared to you. The QQ isn’t coming from me, it comes from the OP.

MomentofWeakness.1246:

-4-There are no rewards for people who follow the enemy blob. +1

Not true unless the only currency that matters to you is xp, loot and karma. The satisfaction of a job well done that helps your team performance is a rewarding act if you care for it.

Keyboardwarrior.8021:

lots of other classes have spam skills, probably better spam skills, almost any class can spam skills. Nec hit me around 3500 three time in 3 sec by using life blast? it’s like 3 critical backstab in a row in 3 sec which is impossible for a thief to achieve.
You probably get all these from testing on a dummy. First you need to get into stealth before position, while stealth is like 2-3 sec, during this time period you need to catch up the target and get behind them, while they are constantly running, mirroring, stunning, aeo, CC. So please don’t make yourself look like a l0of here lol

Again, every class has its unique skill, it’s just thief has stealth which is not exclusive, other class can stealth better at this moment.
Thief is a lot squishier and less HP than most of the class, we just want our damage output can be equal or a little better comparing to other class.

I have all professions at 80. I main an elementalist but I did play all the others quite a bit. I’m not a good thief but I’m not ignorant about the class strength and how it feels to play a staff ele vs thief (an almost impossible fight to win). How much damage do you think your backstab routine does on my ele before I even have a chance to react? It is ridiculous and I’m no dummy. Had I devoted as much time to my thief as I did my ele I’d be hated by all.

As for spamming, there exist no profession with a greater spamming power than thief simply for the mechanical reason called initiative. Sure, you will all tell me “no good thief will spam” bla-bla, but you still can’t really look at other professions as if they had greater spam power than you. Nobody can match you at that game. Spamming is rarely a great strategy for a lot of builds as far as I know anyway so quit using that excuse as if only thief requires skill. To be honest, I find it infinitely easier to duel with my thief as bad as I am than it is with my staff ele as good as I am. If you don’t believe me try it, I’ll pick my thief and I’ll enjoy free stomping you. No duel is ez for a staff ele. None.

As for stealth, sure other prof has it but don’t you even dare try to compare Thief with them. None of them can perma stealth and disappear on demand. None of them can go invisible for anywhere as long as a thief either. I don’t mind engi and ranger stealth capability because the frequency and duration is very reasonable. Mesmers are more annoying not because their stealth is better but because couple with clones and all the mess in the field stealth becomes a pain. All other stealth professions can’t get away as easily if a fight turn bad. I have yet to encounter a thief who won’t catch-up to my staff ele eventually unless I can’t reach a tower.

When people complain about thief most thief answer is “play one yourself”. I could easily tell you the same and maybe you will understand 2 things. 1) Other professions are not as easy as you think, 2) The “play one” argument is pretty lame. You don’t want to play something else, you want to play what you like without having to bend over a prof every time.

Anyway, I was expecting ppl to QQ about thief not the opposite when I came to this sub-forum. You haven’t been on the receiving end of a thief enough in your life to speak like you do here is what I get.

I don’t like it because, again, it advantages the big server more than the small. I dislike anything that widen the gap we already have.

SinisterWraith.2910:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

SinisterWraith.2910:

What good is stealth when it doesn’t mitigate damage. And still get melted by AoE. Same thing with evasion it does not mitigate damage it requires skill to get out.

With the low crit damage and actually SKILL and POSITIONING to land a good back stab vs AoE melt DPS.

What is the point of playing thief? I love rogue/assassin classes in mmo’s but thief is lacking any real burst DPS relative to how squishy you are. If building more defensive you might as well go warrior and keep the dps while having the survivability. But who wants to build defensive with a rogue in the first place.

Spam-able abilities is no excuse either vs duration of conditions etc. Again most of the thief abilities are skill based vs AoE and conditions. From reading a lot of the earlier posts Thief looked like a lot of fun to play. I just don’t get that playing Thief now.

All of the skills are skill based. When you position your Meteor Shower, or any other AoE, you can’t do it stupidly or you will waste it. And it has a 30 sec cool down.

I don’t see much “skill” out of a HS spamming session that is a homing attack not needing to reacquire target even when the target has teleported in your back.

I don’t see that much skill in positioning yourself behind someone that doesn’t even know you are there. Sure, once your presence is revealed it is harder, but that still leave one one hell of a good free shot and is still easier than a lot of other attack to land.

If you think skill and positioning is not important for other professions start playing them a bit. You might be surprised…

You say that as if people stand still all game.

Not at all. I say that as if there was a huge difference between trying to go for my back when I know there is a thief and doing the same when I don’t.

SinisterWraith.2910:

What good is stealth when it doesn’t mitigate damage. And still get melted by AoE. Same thing with evasion it does not mitigate damage it requires skill to get out.

With the low crit damage and actually SKILL and POSITIONING to land a good back stab vs AoE melt DPS.

What is the point of playing thief? I love rogue/assassin classes in mmo’s but thief is lacking any real burst DPS relative to how squishy you are. If building more defensive you might as well go warrior and keep the dps while having the survivability. But who wants to build defensive with a rogue in the first place.

Spam-able abilities is no excuse either vs duration of conditions etc. Again most of the thief abilities are skill based vs AoE and conditions. From reading a lot of the earlier posts Thief looked like a lot of fun to play. I just don’t get that playing Thief now.

All of the skills are skill based. When you position your Meteor Shower, or any other AoE, you can’t do it stupidly or you will waste it. And it has a 30 sec cool down.

I don’t see much “skill” out of a HS spamming session that is a homing attack not needing to reacquire target even when the target has teleported in your back.

I don’t see that much skill in positioning yourself behind someone that doesn’t even know you are there. Sure, once your presence is revealed it is harder, but that still leave one one hell of a good free shot and is still easier than a lot of other attack to land.

If you think skill and positioning is not important for other professions start playing them a bit. You might be surprised…

I tried blinding ash and lightning rod all at once with my staff ele and I had a lot of fun. That being said, that 66002 build was either wrecking my opponent or I was being wrecked. I still prefer my current more stable build 20066 and blinding ashes is still not quite efficient enough for me but I did have a lot of fun with my 66002 build using it.

tom.7468:

Yea sure who care about balance as long as theif can never kill a player again.

Well, unless you only hit on bunker builds I assure you that thief has no problem killing others. None at all.

Sure, I don’t play the flavor of the month meta celestial d/d but let’s not push the ridiculous more than it already is. Heck, I find the d/d celestial ele less dangerous to my staff ele than pretty much any thief. Being killed by a d/d ele also isn’t as annoying… by FAR.

SinisterWraith.2910:

From what I have been reading on these forums. The Thief has literally been nerf’d into the ground and unplayable in PvP.

You are right, the game is full of easy mode AoE and CC, Condi builds etc that deal way more damage than a skill shot like back stab. I think if you are wanting a melee play Warrior, if you want a stealth toon play Ranger. Thief is dead.

Wait, what? Ez mode? I wonder who has ez mode. If you want to find out who has it “easy” play my zerker staff ele full of AoE and CC and I’ll play your thief build. We will see who has it “easy” when I can reset all the fights I want, flee without possibly being caught and start any fight with a 50% head start on life points because I destroyed that much of your life pool before you even knew I was there…

That post is just ridiculous. I can understand some frustration after some nerfs but this is just shameful.

oscuro.9720:

Kaineng NA, not sure what tier we are but we are pretty low. I haven’t played much in this new system (1 hour or so), so I don’t have a proper grasp of it, but i didn’t notice much of a change in solo roaming in enemy BLs. I personally think im there should be no white swords if you are outmanned. Deffinetly would benefit servers who are heavily out matched, and benefit small roaming groups.

You are fighting us (SoR) and I’m not too surprised to read how little impact this has for YOU. For SoR what was bad just became worst. It was already very hard to keep anything but now it is pretty much impossible period.

As with pretty much any new thing that was tried, the big server is left stronger while the weakest weaker still.

I’m still spending on all upgrades without looking at prices but it’s depressing and doesn’t motivate defense when you don’t have the resources to go on offense and defense at the same time.

cheshirefox.7026:

my main character is staff elementalist
i run ascended cleric gear with knights trinkets basically.. sentinal staff with sigil of energy
i have an exotic zerk set for when i’m just grinding..

where did they go wrong with this class.. i know dagger elem can dance and bunker a point, and there’s a burst build on other weapons.. but staff is just a compilation of every disadvantage a character can have in this game.. its function is being redundant support for classes that do it better

and to be perfectly honest, it’s horrifically underwhelming on both extremes of the spectrum.. so how much more useless would i feel going celestial/hybrid

i’m sure there are some builds out there, but i’m sure there are more (were more) players who don’t want to be forced into certain traits and have to play “flight of the bumblebee” on their keyboard to be effective.. and also what is the strategy other than stay off the frontlines

- sincerely a useless and dead elementalist

Well, if you don’t want to be reduced to defensive support only you might want to change the cleric/knight combo.

Staff is an awesome weapon but you have to play it’s strength: Range and AoE. If you play front line and want to duel it can be done but your life could be a lot easier with any other weapons. The staff is a superb team weapon. Even a team of just 2. If you want to solo staff anywhere it can be done but be prepared to invest time and stomach a lot of defeats.

Staff being a 1200 range weapon means you can more easily go for zerker since distance is an excellent defense in itself. You have the best selection and number of combo fields among all possible spec. Also, even your auto attack on staff will almost always have splash effect. Only earth is not so your AoE potential is at worst awesome. Finally, you have a lot of cc (hard and soft) which are fight changers and, specially if you do duel, life savers.

I view the staff mainly as a battleship offering support to the front line invading the shore. “Support” doesn’t mean defensive or weak firepower (quite the opposite). It just mean that, like a battleship, you will create zones that can be from a long range were your troops will feel your help. Either by being directly beneficial to them (ex. healing rain) or indirectly by causing massive retribution to any enemy fool enough to stand in that [dead] zone (Meteor shower). Of course, the [dead] zone of a zerker MS isn’t the same as the [dead] zone of a cleric/knight while the healing isn’t that different.

Usually, an intelligent enemy will want to sink your battleship because the support fire it provide your troop is hard to ignore… enters the submarine who will want to torpedoed you (thief) and the escort you should ideally always have (kinda).

The real question isn’t if staff is great so much as is it your cup of tea.

6 or 7 hours isn’t that much in the long run. That being said, I have so many of these spoons I could pay the national deficit by selling them all. Just the last week-end I got 5 spoon in 3 hours. It is RNG…

Ezeriel.9574:

For a while there, when I was gearing my new 80s, WvW was insanely awesome.

Because every so often, I got loot! …exotics even!

Now it’s a lot of nothing. Spvp gets all kinds of cool loot, and their own armor skins. Pve people run around with legendary weapons, and all the new gear stats are tied to living story.

So rather than some dramatic re-vamp, why not just add new stuff to the badge merchants? There must be some sets all drawn up, that at the last minute, were deemed too ugly for the black lion company to sell.

I was thinking 100 badges for a black lion key… but after opening 30 chests I can’t see why anyone throw money away like that… so maybe a key for 10 badges?

I feel so old. It is no wonder I’m so cynical when I read the barrage of loot whining we have in a game where the fun should be in the action of playing. I feel like a dinosaur about to go extinct…

Jeknar.6184:

I just wanted to say that you sir is the most stubborn player I ever seen… Everytime we’d hold SoR side of EBG, you would be there, and you would be a pain because you simply won’t quit.

If your server mates had 1/10 of the fighting spirit you have, SoR wouldn’t be dead last.

Oh and I’m not that thief… That’s a friend from FC.

On SoR you can’t be anything less than stubborn or you are elsewhere. That day if I remember I was completely alone on all of EBG at that. So sad…

Jeknar.6184:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I must have seen you today then. I’m an orange sylvary with a Bifrost and I feel very alone.

Are you the ele on this video?

Yes, that does look exactly like me.

All my gear is zerker and I removed my sigil of energy since some times ago and I refuse to run FGS, so yeah I’m pretty ez thief food for sure. Absolutely zero hope vs 3 thieves. Even 1 thief has to make serious mistakes to loose.

Still, most of the time, it is fun to run that ele. Time when you are stabbed like that are another matter though… and makes you see thieves everywhere. :P

I never even saw a presursor drop for anyone and I’ve played 3000+hours since beta.

I must have seen you today then. I’m an orange sylvary with a Bifrost and I feel very alone. I took a break and everything on EB must be back to all red. I’m just too depressed at our server. I don’t mind loosing 1000000000000000 to 0 but I want to play with ppl who want to play and who won’t view a failure as that time you stop playing. I’m soooo close to make a new transfer you have no idea…

Jim Hunter.6821:

Gudradain.3892:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Everyone I have ever met in EotM is a free bag. I’ve run into plenty of thieves that run around trying to gank uplevels and smacked them around like the little kittenes they are while I was leveling characters. EotM is a complete joke, please leave that crap out of the WvW forum.

The joke is WvW. Everyone you met in there is either terribad and running back to the nearest tower or chasing you all around the map with their skill blob that outnumber you 10 to 1. This is not PvP.

WvW used to a very nice place but it was because of the diversity of people in it. This was WvW 1 year ago :

• Karma trainer : Your usual skill less blob where you go to relax, get loot or attack them to get easy bags and troll
• Map Completionist : Would rather be somewhere else but at least they can follow the karma train and get some loots!
• Defender/Scout : The best feeling is really when you can crush a 50 man karma train with well placed siege all by yourself (this is what made me play WvW so much)
• Skill group : Most effective way to destroy your opponents. Always a blast to take on group bigger than you.
• Roamer : Your average troll/ganker that happen to flip a camp from time to time

WvW today :

• Karma trainer : Long gone to EoTM which make WvW more empty
• Map completionist : Still stuck in WvW but it’s even worse for them without the karma train
• Defender/scout : Frankly got nothing to do. The karma train made it lively for them. There was an attack every 15 minutes. Now you sit for hours on your AC doing nothing.
• Skill group : Chasing roamer and map completionist all around the map because they got no one else to fight…
• Roamer : Being chased by skill groups or watching people sit on arrow cart in tower? Let’s go flip all the camps on this map and hope to get some fair fights.

The reason ebay bl rarely gets solo roamers is because you all have such a reputation for siege humping. At best I’ll get a couple fights before y’all start building sup ac’s and bali’s in upgraded camps or avoiding me all together to back cap.

It is just more fun to hit the other bl when faced up against you. Luckily most of your decent roamers are usually there too so there are still plenty of fights.

I see plenty of roamers always and I’m one of them. Sure many are bad but plenty are excellent and would give any PvP player a very good match.

The problem I see with many so called “good” PVPers in WvW setting is that they come to WvW with PvP duel securiturbo cheesy builds and and are surprised at how ez it can sometimes be for them to defeat players who have more balanced builds for WvW needs. Their build are putrid and near useless for WvW purpose but they will wreck you if you duel them as you are.

The supreme irony was being called dishonorable by a Medi guard and a d/p Thief because I fled to a camp when they teamed on my staff ele. And after I miraculously won that fight thanks to NPC help and quite a bit of arrogance on their part, the Guard PMed me, while blocking me from replying no less, that I was super bad as an ele and I should not think that I’m good at all because I’m bad… so was saying the guy eating grass and calling me “dishonorable” after seeking 2 vs 1 fight against a WvW roaming staff ele… and each of the times they defeated me before their supreme humiliation they were emoting on my corpse all they could.

oscuro.9720:

Well, if you are on SOR, I roam against you. I am Oscuro of Kaineng! I run a thief, and have run thief for 3 years. Most recently I have started the class that I never see roaming: Necromancer. Here is a fairly accurate layout for low tier roaming (best place to roam):
Ranger: 20%
Guardian: 20%
Thief: 20%
Mesmer: 15%
Ele: 12%
Engi: 5%
Warrior: 5%
Necro: 3%
This is based on my personal observations. Necromancers and warriors have become very few and far between as solo or small group roamers. Guards, Rangers, and thieves have overpopulated the roaming world imo.

That might explain why I see Thieves everywhere.

Sunreva.8714:

I think the Ultimate Subjugator title for WvW is awesome, and I’d really like to have it. I’ve been running the numbers regarding the 100,000 keeps I’ll need to capture, but haven’t quite figured out the best profession to do it with. So my question is, which profession is the quickest at soloing keeps? ((after all, I can’t expect my guild to take 100,000 keeps with me))

Some considerations:

Assuming I’m able to capture 1 keep every 6 minutes, this is a rate of 10 per hour, and 100 per day (I’ll be pulling 10 hours shifts). If I do this every day, that’s 36,500 captured keeps per year, meaning it’ll take approx. 2.7 years to get the achievement. Only problem with this strategy is that it simply takes too long, and I’ll likely be playing different games around June/July 2017.

So…I need to double my efforts. I need a profession that can take 1 keep every 3 minutes, this is a rate of 20 per hour, or 200 per day. If I do this every day, I’ll have the title in 1.3 years—around March/April 2016.

I think March/April 2016 is a much more realistic and plausible goal, and I don’t think it’ll be a problem managing 10 hour daily keep capturing shifts. All I need now is a profession. Any suggestions?

The best profession for that title is “zombie”.

Seera.5916:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Baldrick.8967:

It’s very simple- loot.

EoTm gives more badges, more loot, more karma by just following a train.

Silverwastes chests and events give so much loot it’s not even funny.

An hour in wvw and unless you play a spam 1 tag everything class you might see half a dozen bits of loot, compared to opening 20-30 chests, 30 events, 40 loot bags containing up to t6 mats, etc if you wonder around in Silverwastes.

I’m sure a lot more players would try wvw if it had more loot, even if they have totally failed to update it in two years.

Maybe ‘season 3’ should be a revision and new maps to wvw, with piles of achievement points available (won’t happen, but we can dream).

As it is there is almost no reason to carry on logging in to wvw apart from the occasional even fight, and it’s very clear that is the conclusion reached by the majority of players.

Oh for crying out loud not this again. Seriously, if all that matters to you is loot go to EoTM. You guys would never play WvW anyway if all that prevent you to play is loot. You would only accept to follow the daily Choo-choo train of Karma and be done. No thank. Bad loot perception (it is not badder than anywhere else at all btw) protect WvW from you guys as far as I’m concerned.

But ANet has said that they want people to do what they want and be able to achieve the things they want. Should a pure WvW player really be so far behind in the money earning game than a pure PvE player?

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask for equal amount of loot.

Silver wastes are giving tons of nothings. They overwhelm your inventory. That is all. The best loot I had so far in terms of quality was always in WvW or in Fractals.

But the point is, WvW is plagued by people who are not there for the game itself.

Baldrick.8967:

It’s very simple- loot.

EoTm gives more badges, more loot, more karma by just following a train.

Silverwastes chests and events give so much loot it’s not even funny.

An hour in wvw and unless you play a spam 1 tag everything class you might see half a dozen bits of loot, compared to opening 20-30 chests, 30 events, 40 loot bags containing up to t6 mats, etc if you wonder around in Silverwastes.

I’m sure a lot more players would try wvw if it had more loot, even if they have totally failed to update it in two years.

Maybe ‘season 3’ should be a revision and new maps to wvw, with piles of achievement points available (won’t happen, but we can dream).

As it is there is almost no reason to carry on logging in to wvw apart from the occasional even fight, and it’s very clear that is the conclusion reached by the majority of players.

Oh for crying out loud not this again. Seriously, if all that matters to you is loot go to EoTM. You guys would never play WvW anyway if all that prevent you to play is loot. You would only accept to follow the daily Choo-choo train of Karma and be done. No thank. Bad loot perception (it is not badder than anywhere else at all btw) protect WvW from you guys as far as I’m concerned.

Verificus.4320:

You guys are steering off course. The point is that people who don’t play meta are bad and should only play with people who are also bad and against meta build. Don’t come near us, don’t join our games if we advertise zerk exp, go play how you want in your own instances. Or make a LFG saying: no zerk all welcome something like that. But don’t try to argue that meta isn’t the best and most optimal way to play. There are no valid arguments to be made, you cannot dispute math and numbers.

Let me correct this for you: “The point is that people who don’t play meta are bad annoying to players who do and should only play with people who are also bad and against don’t care about meta build”.

The build doesn’t make a player, any player, “good” or “bad”. You are “good” when you play masterfully your build, no matter that build, and “bad” when you play horrendously that build for what it is.

No wonder players who have builds that let them make bazillion mistake think they are “good”… You are not good. Your build is just extremely forgiving. My grand-mother could manage it without any problem and you beating ppl who have far less forgiving builds doesn’t make you better than them.

Atherakhia.4086:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Garrisyl.7402:

30% Warriors
20% Guardians
15% Elementalist
15% Necro
5% Ranger
5% Mesmer
5% Engineer
5% Thief

Interesting. I’m surprise you see so many Necros and so little Thieves on your server. Maybe It’s just a perception bias I have against Thieves that makes me see so many more than there actually are. Playing almost exclusively staff ele a thief is specially bad news for me unless they really are at their beginning.

His numbers are likely because you didn’t specify what area of WvW you’re focused in. If you’re talking WvW overall I’d expect the class distribution to fall in line with the current meta which is Guardian, Warrior, Necromancer, and Elementalist.

But each aspect of WvW from zerging, to guild groups, to GvGs, and roaming will each have a different spread.

I’m talking over all.

Come on people, it’s a TEST! If the test is disastrous it won’t stick. Calm down.

Garrisyl.7402:

30% Warriors
20% Guardians
15% Elementalist
15% Necro
5% Ranger
5% Mesmer
5% Engineer
5% Thief

Interesting. I’m surprise you see so many Necros and so little Thieves on your server. Maybe It’s just a perception bias I have against Thieves that makes me see so many more than there actually are. Playing almost exclusively staff ele a thief is specially bad news for me unless they really are at their beginning.

This thread is ridiculous.

I’ve been roaming a lot on SoR, as usual, and for a reason or another the ennemies I encountered were almost always thief, war and guards (stealth on demand for thief in group of 2 or 3, ridiculous regen war and medi guards) no matter where I was going (Not just roaming).

Surprisingly, I almost see no staff ele like myself (roaming or not). Most are D/D even in WvW on the server I play.

This got me wondering what was people’s opinion about how the different professions were distributed on their server (% of ea prof and most popular build for it on WvW).

Stand The Wall.6987:

Has to stop.

Commander sniping is when one or usually several people within a zerg dedicate their build (corrupt boon, rapid fire, magnet etc.) to taking down the enemy commander.

For those of you who havent experienced this, youre probably saying to yourself “well this really doesnt sound so bad”. Wrong. Its so… gamebreaking. Your zerg can be looking for theirs for half an hour, and all it takes is some kittenwit to come along and ruin the fun. I have been in more then one situation where both of our zergs just mill around, running back and forth, because both commanders are scared of getting sniped, thus wiping their zerg, thus causing people to log off, thus causing a giant kittening snowball effect that KILLS THE kittenING GAME.

Thats the problem. Here is a proposal.

After (10, 20, 30?) people join a commanders squad, that commander gains a buff that either makes him immune to all such sniping skills, or a flat bonus to toughness and vitality.

What is the problem with calling target on enemy commander? I’m an ele commander and I can tell you I’m under pretty intense fire all the time and I expect it to be so. They would be complete fool to do otherwise. If you can’t tolerate being attacked don’t be a commander… or an ele for that matter…

Another that has seen too many Hollywood movies I guess… Next time A-Net will make the good guys wear white hats and the bad guys wear black hats. And of course you will have a white hat in you dichotomous world. :/

Kuldebar.1897:

Anyone else think that Elementalists are short shrift on underwater usable Elites?

No. Our water elite is the only real elite we have IMO. Sure, we only have one, but it’s a real one. The damage on that toilet flushing bowl is quite good. When 1 to 3 players chases my ele in WvW I really like to jump in water and wait for them to follow. They think they have the upper hand because they are fresh and I’m at 50% and the moment they hit the water they start being flush so fast they die before I do. That skill is “elite”. The others we have are not.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

True, but a little less frustration trying to find them. Loving how mesmers are selling ports to badge 7 and 30 in the LFG channel.

That should tell ANet something.

It tells me that too many are lazy and looking for the easy way out. BTW, many mesmer offer portals for free. I do.

Fransson.7910:

I understand you can and will play this game anyway you want, but i’m tired of all these gold-mesmers getting fast cash for porting you here and there. and why can they do it? well, because only so many CAN do it (only mesmers), so I aim to spread this out more evenly.

In the new JP in silverwastes, theres many badges that mesmers enjoy selling ports to, well, badge #7 (in dulfy’s video) anyone can port from, you just need an Experimental Teleportation Gun. You use it to shoot yourself forwards(from the badge), into the sloped ground underneath, where a portal will spawn, and now anyone can get up there.

I personally used this method to port people there for free for multiple hours today.
Now use this to sell, or do it for free. Whatever the case the market just opened up, reducing prices and maybe in the future anulling them totally

I have never asked for any gold when I ported ppl. That being said, just refuse to pay if you think it is unfair. There will always be a free ride later. When I’m on with my mesmer I advertise free lunch for all.

Sreoom.3690:

In GW1 knowing your enemy’s name was half the fun….I made some great friends chatting with Luxons when I played Kurzick…and vice versa.

People need to get a thicker skin…someone PM’s you and says mean things…then block them. Easy peasy.

True ppl need thicker skins but, more importantly, they need to grow up.

Dayra.7405:

There is only one good reason to not transfer to the TOP-Serever:
If all do there is no one to fight.

But the following may be an optimal strategy for everyone ( the transferee and the not transferring ones):

If we assume we have enough player to fill 6 (3) server:
Always transfer to best currently 6th (3rd) server.

You will be we’re the action is, and most important, if all do it will result in balance, I.e. Interesting fights.

It is true. And I’m tempted to add my weight by paying a transfer. This is most likely what A-Net would prefer but can’t say out loud. That being said, there is a reason why people often split from their server and it isn’t always because of numbers. Is there a T1 server that isn’t full of kittens ATM?

IDK what is the problem with trying something. If it doesn’t work for the majority it won’t stick. At least they do try. Seriously, no matter what they do they are doomed with people like us.

I would hate to be A-NET… Don’t do something = they don’t care. Try something = they fail. No matter what they do or do not do they are doomed.

xDudisx.5914:

If we can see their name in spvp is there any good reason for not do the same in wvw? You can still send a whisper blocking and getting their name anyway. It feels more like pvp fighting someone you can recognize by the name, not just a faceless enemy. Pretty much almost all the games let you see the enemy name in pvp I dont see what is the point of hiding the enemy name.

Because we don’t have enough adult players and I don’t mean the age?

PariahX.6970:

I see nothing wrong with SoR deciding to be a casual WvW server and I don’t think GSCH has ever tried to be anything other than themselves so I have a lot of respect for that. There should be places for people to play for the fun of it and not stress out over PPT. From the sounds of it, those who didn’t care for the laid back casual attitude have moved on so just keep cultivating the kind of community you all want to embody and don’t worry about scores. Glad to hear a lot of drama guilds have moved off SoR, sounds like a lovely place to retire to someday.

There is nothing wrong with a lot of people being casual. I like being casual too. However, an entire server of casual only is a problem for a game like WvW.

There need to be a core to hold all that casual material or you simply won’t have anything remotely enjoyable on WvW. To be honest, had I knew you guys were THAT casual wall to wall I’d never have made my move to your server. Stop advertising PvX and say PVE period. THAT will give a way better account of what the server is and prevent ppl finding out the reality the hard way.

zaced.7948:

:D
welcome to the internet. if you want to walk away from bullying on the internet you have to walk away from the internet. just bully back. call his/her mother names or something, be creative.

Archaon.9524:

roflmao and 15chars

+1

No, just no. Developping a thicker skin is one thing but mimicking idiots won’t make you anything else than an idiot yourself. Beside, you want to lessen the propagation of such juvenile displays not expand it. Be creative, yes, but not by making yourself an idiot 2.0.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Ross Biddle.2367:

SoR WvW died when all the internal organs (the players who made it live) evacuated the body. Now all that’s left is the hollow husk of a shell with the same name on it. Give it up dude. If you want to WvW. go find a serious community of WvW’rs who don’t get bound up with the mental constructs of what server name they’re fighting for, and instead play to win whatever match up they face.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious, (that I can just jump on the bandwagon and server swap like everyone else).

I’m asking how to rejuvenate a server…. not help kill it.

Hopefully this thread gets some gears turning inside people’s heads, (both in the player community and with Anet) about WvW in general.

What do we do with a dead server with no way of bringing it back to life?

Well, for starters, make sure you play. This means that if you are alone on the map, endure on it for at least 20 min before deciding to just log off. If everybody does this, it will help retain fragile people (fair weathers) on the map who can’t wait for 30 sec if no tag is present. SoR is like 99% fair weathers…

Second, if you have a tag, accept to use it when you see map chat is getting desperate. I know it is not easy to be a commander in SoR since so many don’t even know what to do when you drop a ram and you have to litterally travel with many to the camp so they will take supplies, but it needs to be done. There is no core on that server around whicth to gather so be that core for 15 – 30 min from time to time. With time the proportion of autonomous players will rise. For now many couldn’t hope to save their own life if they had a nuclear kitten nal at their disposal.

Third, don’t despair yourself. I know it is hard because each time I’m on the field and I hear my echo I’m wondering why I’m not going somewhere else… maybe I will but for now I stay.

Otherwise, just go to another server. There will be no easy way to get what you had.

oscuro.9720:

No idea, I really hope they do this soon, being on Kaineng, getting points per kill would be great except it deffinetly needs to be scaled to the amount of people on the map. For example, if you are outnumbered 1-10, you should get more points per kill. If a solo roamer 1v5s they get more points per kill.
Best Wishes, Oscuro of Kaineng

I’m also looking forward to a point per kill test but like you I hope this scales or it will get ugly fast.

As usual, yes, A-net has a responsibility in this, but you ppl should stop acting like victims and take what rest on your shoulders.

Personally, I’m sick and tired of the “reward not good enough” trope. If the game itself is not rewarding for you and you rely on external gimmicks dropping to sustain your presence inside GW2 something is wrong. This isn’t a job, it’s a game.

Thank you for the vid. I’m so used to play staff everywhere that I realized my d/d skill is pretty sub-par when I see you go.