Mostly PvP for my part…
Staff ele can kite through his aoe of cource (Lava Font, etc) and kill unexp/thirsty thief but odd still in thief favor. Vs mesmer even less chanse. But that was before patch too. Patch brings nothing new in this matchup imho.
The numbers of interrupts and the survive-ability of the mesmer has gone up significantly. Which mean what was hard before is now even harder still. And, of course, the damage boost all across the board makes this even more impossible.
I think what irks me a lot is you can play zerk anything but ele. Sure, you will be underdog as a zerk something else too, but it’s not hopeless. Zerk necro, thief or mesmer? No problem at all! Zerk ele? Are you crazy? What were you thinking bro!?
Your complaints are the equivalent of an old-style glamour Mesmer complaining that they’re not doing well in PvE or duels. Sometimes, builds simply aren’t capable of performing well in some aspects of the game. If you want to continue trying to, as Apharma put it, hammer nails with a screwdriver, then by all means continue. Just complain about how hard it is somewhere else.
No, they are not. The mesmer always had viable zerk options. The ele? Not really. I would never ask for a hammer to do as good of a job as a spoon when comes the time to eat a soup. The problem is, where the kitten is my small spoon on ele? Everyone got a small spoon that does a decent job alone but not ele. Even D/F is only delaying the inevitable in front of these builds.
Also, I’ll send you back your own advise. If you are tired of hearing ppl complain then just go away… I don’t have to go away because you don’t like it and can kitten well say what I want. Specially if I feel it is legitimate. You have no power over me posting but all the power over you staying and reading so…
Staff ele can kite through his aoe of cource (Lava Font, etc) and kill unexp/thirsty thief but odd still in thief favor. Vs mesmer even less chanse. But that was before patch too. Patch brings nothing new in this matchup imho.
The numbers of interrupts and the survive-ability of the mesmer has gone up significantly. Which mean what was hard before is now even harder still. And, of course, the damage boost all across the board makes this even more impossible.
I think what irks me a lot is you can play zerk anything but ele. Sure, you will be underdog as a zerk something else too, but it’s not hopeless. Zerk necro, thief or mesmer? No problem at all! Zerk ele? Are you crazy? What were you thinking bro!?
(edited by Sirbeaumerdier.3740)
Ok then let me be blunt, playing staff zerker ele against a burst build like that is just silly. You should lose, the odds are stacked against you so stop complaining. You should lose to most thieves, power necros should farm you and even medi guards should stomp you with ease. In fact most zerker builds have it heavily weighted in their favour.
Play a more realistic burst build with ele like D/F or S/F fresh air and you stand a better chance at bursting people down. The only person you have to blame is yourself for the situation you’re in, you’re using the wrong tools for the wrong job.
I do assume the unfairness of my choice as long as some hope remains. Yes, I loose most of my fight vs burst builds no matter the profession and I’m okay with most of it. However, there are levels of unfair that are just kitten wrong is what I’m saying.
Even a burst thief, how I hate them as a zerk staff you have no idea, still provides slivers of hope and have to accept some risks when they attacks me while having a higher skill requirement to make me feel that hopeless. The mesmer as he is OTOH make me feel the same thing even when it is played by relatively new players.
d/d zerker too? cele d/d ele is fine (from my exp)
yes, I don’t play celestial.
Well, I main ele and have a ridiculous amount on staff with zerk. If PvP I would suggest rolling something with a bit more vit and toughness but if you prefer zerk stick with marauder. Mistform, lightening flash and arcane shield (also final shielding trait)are great and all can be used when stunned, with 2 being a stun break.
Mist form the first burst, make sure you use your AoE to cleave out clones. When they fail the shatter you should have 2-3s before the daze mantra is ready again so meteor is a good thing to lay down then, cancel just before the full channel though. Use of chill will be very effective on them too and keeping a good rotation going so you get high protection uptime.
If you’re talking WvW and you’re roaming with staff, sorry but that’s just a bad plan without others but with a few other people you should have a better time. If zerg watch the fringes of the fight, keep an eye on their movements and make sure you’re not too out of position and keep your back to your zerg for a quick burning retreat to them. It doesn’t matter if you go down with your Zerg, any decent commander will Rez an ele as they know how valuable they are especially if you’re calling out water fields on TS.
Got any more specifics about your fights?
Maybe you didn’t read it when I first said it but I’ve been playing the zerk staff for thousands of hours. Reminding me of what Mistform and Arcane shield can do might be well intended but in the end it’s condescending and suggesting you aren’t serious at all.
Of course I mistform the first burst and know all about what can maximize my results! The problem is, you can’t possibly keep up with the mesmer no matter if he is shatter, PU or mantra or a mix of that. You can delay the inevitable but unless the mesmer make several bad mistakes and you make none you don’t have a prayer no matter if it’s wvw or pvp (and yes I went from zerk to marauder eventually because kitten). If you really have that much experience in the zerk staff you should know these things…
Personally, I like to have an underdog fight. I like that challenge. Heck, why do you think someone would stick with zerk staff in duel, roaming and pvp? My problem isn’t hitting the ground. I died more than 13k times on that build (/deaths). However, when the fights are THAT unfair and you genuinely feel it’s hopeless even before it’s starts you know something is bad.
Helseth’s sentence (if are bothered with his opinion): http://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth/v/7834714 1:44:11 – ~1:50:xx
Common thought is l2p, not complain. Some fixes could be done (CS on interrupt?), but ppl would still complain cause not used to consider mesmer as strong classMy god this guy is full of himself… yisssh…
But back on topic, I completely disagree ppl complain because mesmer supposedly wasn’t a strong class before. Feeling powerless when fighting one is a much more accurate pov.
I’ve lost countless fights vs mesmers that I was left asking myself what did I do wrong? what should I have done instead? The only answer in many case was ‘you tried to fight instead of running’. What makes it worse is the fact you are feeling like that vs obviously sub par mesmers while you are on a build you completely own for thousands of hours. Yes, ppl exaggerate but there are very valid complaint you can’t reasonably brush under the ‘l2p’ carpet.
That kind of attitude won’t get anyone anywhere.
What build were you running? Don’t be shy, I may loathe condition thief but if you’re running it we can offer advise on when to attack etc.
Any specifics on the fight? Was it MoD stun repeatedly used? What weapons were they using? Were they power or condition?
A lot of veteran mesmers would be happy to point out the openings for attack and a lot of people here play other classes too so can perhaps offer advise like taking a certain utility, perhaps a slight change in signals or runes. Maybe it might be more simple as use this at this point and you’ll wreck them.
I mostly play zerk staff ele but I also go scepter/focus or d/d if I have to. So far, no matter the weapons, mesmers have a very easy time. I’m proud when I kill any mesmer at all or just have a very long exchange before I either die or I need to bail.
I had many fights while on other prof like war, or ranger but my fingers memory are way better on ele so me loosing there isn’t as significant of a problem.
[…]Its pretty obvious to me that someone more skilled at mesmer is going to beat someone less skilled at ele and someone more skilled at ele is going to beat someone less skilled at mesmer.
Currently, and even before patch to be honest, Mesmer will defeat an ele of similar skill level without any problem unless he seriously mess-up. Actually, currently, a relatively new mesmer will even have success vs a veterant ele. It’s just too easy to interrupt, stun and bail or land your burst with the current tool mesmers have.
Helseth’s sentence (if are bothered with his opinion): http://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth/v/7834714 1:44:11 – ~1:50:xx
Common thought is l2p, not complain. Some fixes could be done (CS on interrupt?), but ppl would still complain cause not used to consider mesmer as strong class
My god this guy is full of himself… yisssh…
But back on topic, I completely disagree ppl complain because mesmer supposedly wasn’t a strong class before. Feeling powerless when fighting one is a much more accurate pov.
I’ve lost countless fights vs mesmers that I was left asking myself what did I do wrong? what should I have done instead? The only answer in many case was ‘you tried to fight instead of running’. What makes it worse is the fact you are feeling like that vs obviously sub par mesmers while you are on a build you completely own for thousands of hours. Yes, ppl exaggerate but there are very valid complaint you can’t reasonably brush under the ‘l2p’ carpet.
Currently, the class is too faceroll. Not against good players who can dodge, but the other 95% of the time.
/facepalm
Let me just translate this statement for you real quick:
“Currently, Mesmer is able to faceroll bad players that don’t know how to dodge. For some unfathomable reason, I find this to be a problem”
The absurdity of this complaint is just off the charts. Not even going to elaborate on why, it should be self-evident.
As you know by now, I, as well as tons of players with hundreds or even thousands of hours invested in their professions, also think the current popular mesmer builds are as close as can be to without risk.
It’s not just the bad players that see a problem. It’s easy to have powerful results with current mesmer. Way too easy for the reward they reap.
The insta-gib gimmick running rampant atm is very similar to the one shot gimmick you can perform with scepter/dagger (DT + Phoenix+LF etc) but with the added advantage that you can prepare unseen and more often…
Playing a zerk staff ele and despising the d/d cele build myself, I perfectly understand how several mesmers feel about the state of the profession atm.
And as others, myself included, have pointed out simply shaving PU’s stealth duration and CS’s duration would dramatically reduce the amount of stealth camping and dazes available therefore reducing the number of people playing it.
That does not mean that the class as a whole is overpowered.
I never talked about “over powered” or “relevant” or “useful”. I always talked in terms of risk vs reward. And on that topic, for whatever reason post patch, Mesmers have stellar results available in many forms for next to no risks.
Currently, the class is too faceroll. Not against good players who can dodge, but the other 95% of the time.
/facepalm
Let me just translate this statement for you real quick:
“Currently, Mesmer is able to faceroll bad players that don’t know how to dodge. For some unfathomable reason, I find this to be a problem”
The absurdity of this complaint is just off the charts. Not even going to elaborate on why, it should be self-evident.
As you know by now, I, as well as tons of players with hundreds or even thousands of hours invested in their professions, also think the current popular mesmer builds are as close as can be to without risk.
It’s not just the bad players that see a problem. It’s easy to have powerful results with current mesmer. Way too easy for the reward they reap.
The insta-gib gimmick running rampant atm is very similar to the one shot gimmick you can perform with scepter/dagger (DT + Phoenix+LF etc) but with the added advantage that you can prepare unseen and more often…
Playing a zerk staff ele and despising the d/d cele build myself, I perfectly understand how several mesmers feel about the state of the profession atm.
They are accountable IF their actions are breaking the rules. Presently they are not breaking any known rules.
You seem to be the one missing the point here.
By not fixing it, Anet is allowing it to continue, by not making any statements Anet is allowing it to continue. Do I need to link the definition of Allow ? Players currently are not in the wrong, because currently they are breaking no known rules. This is a moral issue more than anything.
But if you want to get down to the nitty gritty of it, stop demanding for player’s to be banned and start demanding that Anet does their kitten job and fix it. Hows that for common sense, hopefully that can sink in.
Oohhh, pardon me. I finally see what you’re getting at! Since this is 100% ANet’s fault, I should totally take advantage of this unfair advantage and go do some roaming! I should not be held accountable for ruining the game for other players, and it is my right to get away scot-free with no repercussions. Sure, I have the choice to not be a cheater, but I’m going to be a kittening kitten and do it anyways!
Thank you so much for clarifying that.
brb using golem buff to gank noobs haha
Can we please stop it with the BS logic? It might be ANET’s fault if the bug exist but you have power over whether or not you choose to use it, therefore you share responsibility for the current state of the game. I myself tried it for like 5 minutes so I’m guilty myself btw (kitten my curiosity). It may not be your fault that there is that bug, but it sure is your responsibility to not abuse it.
Careful with the gross generalizations. A profession has many builds. Beside, what is wrong with wanting all builds to inherently balance out on risk/reward?
P.S. Shatter mesmer was never,ever, an nonviable build in many competitive settings (duel, pvp or wvw).
Sorry, but history of tournaments pre-patch, and the fact that mesmer was basically cannon fodder for thieves.
Kinda proves that statement false.Edit. Nvm
Fay covered it.
Let’s say you are both right, you and Fay, that still doesn’t answer what is wrong with wanting balance on the risk/reward scale.
Maybe we will get a purge stealth skill from that war horn… cross fingers till they bleed…
I’m going to guess that you’ve never played ele, warrior, thief, engineer, or guardian competitively.
See, how the Mesmer feels now is how all of those classes have felt for years. Mesmer has for a very long time been the epitome of high risk, high effort, and low reward. Sure it feels good when you manage to squeeze out victories from that disadvantage, but lamenting a set of changes that brings Mesmer in line with the risk/reward of all the other classes is basically Stockholm syndrome for gamers.
Keep playing, I’m sure you’ll manage to get past your misgivings of playing a viable class. You could always go play p/p thief or something if you really want the rush of playing an unviable build…
Careful with the gross generalizations. A profession has many builds. Beside, what is wrong with wanting all builds to inherently balance out on risk/reward?
P.S. Shatter mesmer was never,ever, an nonviable build in many competitive settings (duel, pvp or wvw).
The profession as is, has next to no risk at all since it can bail at any moment without the opponent being able to do much about it while maintaining huge burst every 15 secs and stuns nearly on demand. This is not my definition of “challenging”.
That’s three distinct builds you just described.
“Huge burst every 15s” = Power Shatter mesmer
“Bail at any moment without the opponent being able to do much about it” = PU Mesmer
“Stuns nearly on demand” = Lockdown mesmerSome people mix and match between those a bit, but you don’t get to have all three at once.
How about I turn that back on you?
Thief as is, is just too powerful as they can do a huge burst every 5s from the middle of nowhere while being able to apply so much condition damage that you can’t even heal up. Plus, they can just stay in stealth forever and there’s no way to see them coming.
Ele as is, is just too powerful as they can unload incredible amounts of damage all the time, and you can’t kill them because of their 20k health.
Guardian as is, is just too powerful because they’re pretty much invincible while being able to lay down tons of burns all the time with high condition damage.
if you consider 9k (about max backstab dmg) huge too powerfull bursts i don’t know what to say ^^
and you can always see the thief coming, SR is a big kill me sign, CnD is easy to spot and just dodge, blind field heartseaker use a daze and he’s done, or wait about 2-3 sec (the time he has to prepare a bs) and dodge.
but yeah that is pretty difficult ….Only 9 k?
3 things,
They can Open on you from stealth-
They can CnD off of clones
They can steal and/or shadow step
Most of the backstab that are successfully delivered to me by power thieves are over 9k (pun intended). The usual Steal (with daze/basilic venom) + CnD + backstab combo is death to me since I have around 12k life. It’s dodge/mistform or die.
I despise all of you who burst from stealth equally. :P
The profession as is, has next to no risk at all since it can bail at any moment without the opponent being able to do much about it while maintaining huge burst every 15 secs and stuns nearly on demand. This is not my definition of “challenging”.
That’s three distinct builds you just described.
“Huge burst every 15s” = Power Shatter mesmer
“Bail at any moment without the opponent being able to do much about it” = PU Mesmer
“Stuns nearly on demand” = Lockdown mesmerSome people mix and match between those a bit, but you don’t get to have all three at once.
How about I turn that back on you?
Thief as is, is just too powerful as they can do a huge burst every 5s from the middle of nowhere while being able to apply so much condition damage that you can’t even heal up. Plus, they can just stay in stealth forever and there’s no way to see them coming.
Ele as is, is just too powerful as they can unload incredible amounts of damage all the time, and you can’t kill them because of their 20k health.
Guardian as is, is just too powerful because they’re pretty much invincible while being able to lay down tons of burns all the time with high condition damage.
First, you are preaching at the choir with the thief as far as I’m concerned. Or rather, regarding the stealth + burst combo (extraordinarily bad idea in any game to implement that kind of thing. Abysmally bad).
Second, none of the builds you have proposed for other profession are without real risks as opposed to any of the major build from the mesmer right now.
Yes, all the builds you counter proposed are very strong, but not without risk. The medi guard is super bursty, true, but can’t as easily bail out from all, is a lot more fragile and you usually still see all their attack animations leading you to make a choice. When you fail your burst you are in danger. When a mesmer (or many thief yes) fail his burst, it’s no big deal. Let’s reset and try anew until I succeed.
The celestial d/d ele build is a coward build. I’m an ele and I look down on it. But even as cowardly as I see that build, it pale in comparison with the current PU or Mantra mesmer, as well as some variations who still can bail instead of facing the music after making a mistake. It also doesn’t use any kind of stealth so at least you can see what is coming your way.
I get that many here refuse to see the point I try to bring with the risk vs reward but so far nobody here in this thread, or any other thread on the topic, has been even remotely able to show me ONE real risk that comes with several of the popular mesmer builds atm. The attack I can mount on my mesmers can fail, yes, but they carry no real consequences unless you freely decide to push your luck.
People(myself included) have outlined a risks to PU in all game modes, you just choose to ignore them and spout some random cross-class comparisons. Just gonna recap them since I’m really getting tired of every other mesmer thread devolving into the same conversation.
In SPvP, stealth prevent point capture as well as point contesting, so PU is not the best choice for point to point rotating(which is what mesmer is great at). Additionally, it means you interact less with your team since the other GM trait options can be easily used to either protect an ally, buff an ally, or call target on someone and immobilize them in preparation for a coordinated burst. The tradeoff for PU is by losing that interaction with allies you gain more personal survivability as well as a way to safely reposition once you’re focused without wasting blink.
PvE doesn’t really matter as stealth skills are only used for skips anyway.
WvW. This is where all the problems come up because people keep dragging roaming into this. In Zerg v Zerg, PU probably isn’t the best option. Only a few of the boons will be useful and on top of that, AoEs will likely hit you anyway. Being in stealth for too long also means you probably are doing no damage at all since phantasms rarely stay alive for long. The other GM traits would offer more to you and your zerg.
Only reason I said stealth traps could work in the other thread is because when you’re actually playing the way game developers intended(I.E, not 1v1/small group roaming) it isn’t hard to utilize them. Stealth trap near a gate that’s about to broken down to prevent a zerg from stealthing. If it was meant for 1v1 or small group roaming in the slightest, it wouldn’t have 1200 range and a target cap of 20.
You keep saying it lacks counterplay, but what you really mean is that you can’t be bothered to actively counter it. Or you’re just talking about small group/1v1 roaming in WvW still.
The only game mode where you outlined risk is pvp. And even then it is more accurately a trade-off than a risk for the mesmer to be honest. That it is less useful or not in pve or zerg fight (and I will argue on this a lot) is irrelevant to the notion of risk you say you have outlined. The risk vs reward is not balanced at all.
Choppy, stop with this thieves get 3s of stealth and have less than mesmers BS. It shows you either have no grasp on stealth and the mechanic or you need to learn to thief.
Thieves can stack stealth to stay in stealth permanently and choose when to engage. They also have a short bow for extreme gap opening if the fight goes sour and can then stealth engage after. Many are training stealth on steal as well so that’s a teleport, damage, heal, stealth into backstabbing and heartseeker.
This is without mentioning you’re mainly talking about WvW and as that other person mentioned in another thread, use stealth traps if they’re really giving you a problem.
Now, how’s that pre patch mesmer build I linked for you working for you?
Lol, settle down apharma. Denis made a silly argument and I used thieves as a way to expose the ridiculousness of the argument. Stealth traps during a fight is another ridiculous thing to say.
The stealth trap argument is my litmus test to decide if someone is arguing in good faith or not on that topic. It is just so imbecile you can’t doubt the other side couldn’t care less about what you have to say.
Lol there is counter play. I’ve been using it for years on Mes against theifs. Its called AOEs, Knockbacks, and pulls. Play a thief or a mesmer for a while and you’ll learn how people typically path while stealthing. Then its pretty easy to attack someone in stealth.
That is not counter play at all or anything new. How does guessing someone’s position countering stealth? It doesn’t. Even if your guess is right you only counter an attempt at stealth. Never stealth itself. This is what ppl mean when they say it has no counter play. Even revealed is not a counter play.
Beside, the only real time it’s easy to guess someone’s position in stealth in with shadow refuge. Otherwise unless you are a complete kitten it’s child play to avoid enough attacks from the ppl guessing where you are. Specially if you blink/shadow step immediately.
Adapt by creating a new class character, or adapt your thief build. The latter is far easier than trying to learn Mes. Mes is still one of the most challenging classes to learn. But good luck.
It is far from the most challenging to learn right now. You can manage to get spectacular results with relatively little play time as it is now.
The profession as is, has next to no risk at all since it can bail at any moment without the opponent being able to do much about it while maintaining huge burst every 15 secs and stuns nearly on demand. This is not my definition of “challenging”.
As a zerk roamer myself I sympathize with that kind of experience. Sure, running zerk in wvw mean you have to accept a lot of sad things. After more than 13k deaths on my zerk staff ele you can guess that if I didn’t accepted my frailty I would have stopped playing that since a looooong time.
The only 2 things I still have a lot of problem accepting are:
1) When I die without having made anything to deserve it beside being zerk. I mean, no matter your spec, you should always have a reasonable possibility to avoid instant death. Sure all professions have insane burst. HOWEVER, not all professions can hide the attack animation that could let you take a decision about dodging or poping a big cd to save you kitten . Hence my long standing hate for stealth.
2) Even worst IMHO, when someone can manage to formulate such a high reward gimmick as a one shot kill, you kinda expect a huge risk associate with it… Sadly that is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from being the case with loads of mesmers…
Thing is 1s extra of stealth isn’t a “build defining” grandmaster trait and the boons are so watered down you can’t rely on them.
PU in that state wouldn’t be worth taking over the other 2 traits and in no way comes close to other classes defence line traits when looked at in their relevance to the class.
I must respectfully disagree with you. PU has always been a strong trait before the revamp. 4s on Decoy/Torch is still very strong.
Yeah, I agree. PU was never in any need of a buff whatsoever to begin with. That they thought it would be a good idea to double duration makes me wonder if they play their own game outside pvp.
Not really related to the topic, but that burst was kinda easy to avoid.
I suppose it was a sarcasm… I hope it was.
a few things..because you are talking to a person that didn’t address you, but for some reason decided that for what ever reason this came off as an attack or some post directed at you to respond to.
This is partially true. You didn’t DIRECTLY address me. However, it is false from my PoV that you didn’t address me when you addressed your wish considering what was said by myself as well as many others in other threads. It came off as if ppl not agreeing like minded ppl couldn’t possibly have really tried it. But, fair enough…
Go to the pvp forum and you see people that say
" Mesmer 1 shot me, it needs to be nerfed"
“Mesmer stayed in stealth and ran from me, it needs to be nerfed.”
“Mesmer stealthed, blinked, invuled,bursted, stunned me down and didn’t take any damage, it needs to be nerfed”You find very VERY few people saying " Oh I just tried it and figured out why I was having trouble, the reasons are A-B-C, so I started doing E-F-G and now I have a better chance. I would recommend more people try Build X to learn how to counter Build Y for professions Q, maybe you can come up with a good build that isn’t glass"
I totally agree that ppl too often ask for stupid nerf for a yes or for a no and that this topic is no exception. My only contention lies with the many who behave in the most obfuscated ways when a criticism is made regarding the current state of the game when it is touching their main. Apparently, no matter what, nothing said is ever legit or good enough. Yes, things will get better as we adapt but is there something that persist beyond that lazy “L2P” attitude we are often served?
You don’t see many of those, you DO see walls of QQ threads being started. You DO see people QQ’ing in threads with the intention of civil discussion.
That is what I see on the majority of the competitive boards.
Also no where did I say people like the op didn’t exist Thank you for putting words in my mouth btw
I DID sayI wish more people in this forum were like you OP, I honestly do.
let me emphasize this for you.
more people
No where does that say, I wish ALL, but more.
That is true and I apologize.
Secondly,
.
There is also another very simple fact that again support what I just said above. Many people Did play a mesmer and really tried it a lot on both side of the fence. Sadly, and very strangely, the only legitimate ppl seem to be the ones who have spoken like the OP… Why are the PoV of veteran mesmers and other professions who have fought loads of them dismissed and the PoV of a new player in that field so highly praised?
No where, have I said that the PoV of a vet, is less than that of a new player.
Are you saying we should NOT thank a new player for having a fresh perspective?I DID say
“The simple fact is a lot of people simply don’t want to get better or adapt.”
And that is a fact. A lot of people simply want what they play and how they play to be the best without competition, they want their style of play, their trait choices, etc. to be the best without having to learn or change.
I don’t know how you read that, or any part of my post, as me saying I don’t value vets ( especially when I recently posted in an appreciation thread for mesmer vets that you feel contributed to the mesmer community, or something like that). Or that their PoV doesn’t matter.
You have some deep seated issues and you may want to make a thread about it, instead of taking post like mine 3 shades out of context.
I suppose my history in past threads on the matter has tainted my view here when you replied “positively” to the OP but never before when someone had share a similar, albeit drastically different, experience. Anyway…
It is true that you see a lot of QQ from outsiders (some ridiculous, others very legitimate) but it is also true that the opposite reaction has been seen from the resident mesmer community (it could have been any community really) who will too often try to lessen the validity of the “good” points of the opposing side. I mean, like I said, I main an ele. When the FGS was broken (and it was), I was not trying to lessen how broken that kitten was just because, you know, it’s an ele skill. It was kittening broken period. The fact I’m an ele is beside the point on the matter. That thing needed a nerf (ok, that skill is now an elite walking stick but that is another problem). Too often, all I see and read are ppl arguing with a sport’s team mentality. Team mesmer vs team whatever for example.
Simply put, I’m never bothered when someone making stupid QQ are put in their place. What will annoy me a lot is when someone bringing valid points will receive an almost unanimous wall of defensive non-sense to try covering a blatant “we don’t care, we like it” attitude.
@Tobaco
Did you forgot to read the word “literally” in what I said? It means that even if ppl have use words like “impossible” the meaning behind is not that it was literally impossible. Of course anyone can be defeated. However, the point was, and remain, that there is a balance issue that can’t be reasonably explained with “L2P” alone.
As for your “bullkitten” rebuttal and your “sources”, again, learn to read. I never said Mesmers period. I said MANY mesmers maining ppl… And I suggest you go read back your “sources” because they support exactly what I’m saying here… The fact that many mesmer posters have acknowledge the problem doesn’t invalidate what I said.
@Solori
There is also another very simple fact that again support what I just said above. Many people Did play a mesmer and really tried it a lot on both side of the fence. Sadly, and very strangely, the only legitimate ppl seem to be the ones who have spoken like the OP… Why are the PoV of veteran mesmers and other professions who have fought loads of them dismissed and the PoV of a new player in that field so highly praised?
The truth is, many people on the forum did what the OP did and have said so. Just go reread the many posts on the topic. Yet, here we are with you wishing these people who give the mesmer a chance would exist as if none who view things differently and with legitimate reasons ever did… despite the fact they did…
I don’t think people hate mesmers per se. Nor did ppl kitten about “mesmers being impossible to defeat” literally. However, there is an issue regarding balance that goes beyond the lazy knee jerk “L2P”.
I think that what fuels the hate mainly comes from the many mesmer maining ppl who are fighting tooth and nail to avoid acknowledging even an iota of a possible problem (often coming of as blatantly trolling and of very bad faith when discussing the issue). They probably fear the nerf hammer more than anything else but, sadly, the coping strategies that fear engender make many of them very unlikable ppl in the eyes of those who have valid points.
My 2 cents
Um. You realise you need to take camps right? Just fighting is not really the point. You are a fly on the wall to the score. The easiest way to real with PU it just to ignore it. Also I doubt you won all fights.
Also stealth disruptor traps. Should really see them coming into play over the next week.
I’ve fought a lot of mesmers in zergs, they’re terrible, they’re one trick ponies that rely on stealthing and running away as soon as you focus them. This gets them out of the fight and lets you then focus on the heavies, when they die it’s easy to clear up the mesmers.
Well, that’s if they survive, the ones on my current match up take 2s to even react to the iZerker whirling at them, by that time it’s too late as they run full zerk and go pop.
Honestly, if you need to buy stuff like stealth disruptor traps to even have a chance you know something has to be wrong.
So like the last 2+ years with thieves right?
My favourite are those P/D thieves that can solo the lord in dire gear and you have to spend 15mins trying to hunt down without stealth disruptor.
FYI, I’ve always said the same about thieves sthealth. Always. Some here operate under the very false assumption that ppl who now vent on mesmers never did vs thieves. You couldn’t be more wrong.
That ‘but it always existed with thieves’ rethoric to try and avoid the issue is ridiculous and fallacious.
I’m glad to read some mesmers that are able to acknowledge the problem tho.
Um. You realise you need to take camps right? Just fighting is not really the point. You are a fly on the wall to the score. The easiest way to real with PU it just to ignore it. Also I doubt you won all fights.
Also stealth disruptor traps. Should really see them coming into play over the next week.
I’ve fought a lot of mesmers in zergs, they’re terrible, they’re one trick ponies that rely on stealthing and running away as soon as you focus them. This gets them out of the fight and lets you then focus on the heavies, when they die it’s easy to clear up the mesmers.
Well, that’s if they survive, the ones on my current match up take 2s to even react to the iZerker whirling at them, by that time it’s too late as they run full zerk and go pop.
Honestly, if you need to buy stuff like stealth disruptor traps to even have a chance you know something has to be wrong.
Seriously need some advice here they just seem to facetank all my hardest abilities then heal it up in notime… If i go conditions i can kill them if im lucky if they are prepared its impossible. I dont want to reroll i hate ele.
You must have ran into a d/d celestial ele. They are indeed extremely hard to defeat for many and can flee super fast to reset a fight.
As an ele myself, I can hate ppl playing that build sometimes. However, paying attention to when they enter water magic will be key to your success. Specially if you play condi. Water is where they can the bulk of their healing and condi cleanse happens. When you witness them leave water you have a good window to put your pressure.
Be wary when they are in air of the super obvious ride the lightning/updraft combo that will instantly be followed by a switch to fire magic and possibly death if executed well enough and you aren’t able to react fast enough or at all. Fire is where the damage will happen. Dodging ride the lightning will be very important and will increment it’s cool down.
So now there is proof. Warrior must be nerfed if 7k damage can be done by dodge rolling. Your issue with longer stealth time pales in comparison to dodge rolling your way to victory.
It still doesn’t remove the problem stealth represent in the game nor address the risk vs reward issues.
I main an ele and I decided to play my ranger all week-end… I never had it easier in months. The sustain vs damage ratio is kittening absurd even when playing zerk like I did. I’m death from 1500 or more and the pressure I impose on extremely low cool down to my opponents is hard to outplay. I call massive BS on any ranger nerf. The thought it was more powerful before is mind numbing to me.
Ahaha an ele coming to ranger forum to say ranger is OP lool.
You probably were downed by several rangers while in water because of 1500 range nukes and it feels so weird cos no other calss/build can down that easily the godmode d/d ele.
If you encounter a zerker ranger and don’t suck you should find a cover and there’s plenty in pvp maps.
The only map where it works resonably well are legacy and silent storm.
And all other specs don’t work anymore soo no ranger isn’t fine.
Even the best spec we have available (longbow) is bugged because all skills will stow at full cooldown if interrupted. So for mesmer it’s full cooldown+15sec.
And greatsword 4 and 5 need serious improvement as I and others said already
I don’t play d/d much and I roam solo on zerk staff… so much for “godmode”…
As for me coming to your forum, I visit all forums, ele being the most visited by me of course. Beleive me, the Mesmer forum have received quite a few of my post recently.
What I said earlier is my experience in WvW. I went LB zerk and GS with Beastmastery / Marksmanship / Survival.
I picked troll ungent, lightning reflexes, entangle (3 survival skills, therefore condi cleanse, one being a stun breaker) as well as signet of the hunt and of stone (speed and invul). All these have reduced cool down because of traits.
My DPS as a zerk LB is simply ridiculous and on such low cd and range. My survival is that of a medium armor and life (I’m used to do good with the worst possible armor and life pool so it feel kittening awesome) that has a lot of condi cleanse. If I’m under regen I take 5% less damage and if my life is above 90% I take 33% less damage… the synergy with the traits and the skills have never been this good for ranger.
I love my ranger, and I’m glad of the change they made but when I hear ppl say they were nerfed I’m like WTF!? Yes, there are bugs, but that is not a nerf.
EDIT: Oh, yeah, I forgot. The beast master line is not what it was… Not at all. Now, my kittening hawk/eagle that can spam it’s F2 ability every kittening 4 and 3/4 sec. will not only bleed but blind, weaked and taunt (15 sec cd on taunt but still)!!!!!! Every 4 and 3/4 sec… AaaaaAAAAUrggg!? Can I get more nerf like this plz?
PS. I wonder what happens when the wolf howl and the enemy get both fear and taunt at the same time… hummm
(edited by Sirbeaumerdier.3740)
Yup, because if you’re convinced that Rangers are in a good spot, you’d be mistaken. Name for me three Professional players who competed in the World Tournament Series who played predominately as ranger.
Are there ANY WvW guilds worth there salt that actively recruit rangers over any other class?
Are there or are there not common or regular instances where the Ranger is removed from a dungeon party or told NOT to join because their damage is not on par with others in a PvE environment?
The answers to these questions are very obvious without having to explain why.
Ranger carries a long history of being hated that went full kitten for waaay too long. People are sooo used to hate rangers they even forgot why.
Most of my guild hate rangers but that doesn’t change the fact they can be extremely good. Answering your questions proves nothing. Use facts, not circumstantial argumentation. Yes, there are areas of the game where they don’t do as well and others where they excel. But to me at least they don’t lack dps at all at the moment far from it.
Really? I mean, are we talking about the same class here? Wait… Really?
Your response is, as I imagine it, given in the same tone a coach would give to a decathlon competitor after they came in last for every single event.
“Cheer up, Charlie Brown.” Says Lucy, “You’ll kick that football next time! Remember how good you were at kicking soccer balls? Kicking a football is like the same thing!”
I just can’t even see it. Who the heck were you fighting? Elderly people filming for a “Grandparents react to Guild Wars 2” video?
I was serious. What is so weak on the ranger according to you? The DPS? The condi cleanse? The sustain? What?
And then there’s THIS GUY! Seriously, who the heck let the OP in here? Stay out of the Ranger forums and don’t come back. Go back to praising Robert Gee for buffing Mesmers to God tier, or thanking devs for cooldown reductions for shield skills. You’ve probably never played as a Ranger a day in your life.
So the only persons who are legit around are those who share your views?
I main an ele and I decided to play my ranger all week-end… I never had it easier in months. The sustain vs damage ratio is kittening absurd even when playing zerk like I did. I’m death from 1500 or more and the pressure I impose on extremely low cool down to my opponents is hard to outplay. I call massive BS on any ranger nerf. The thought it was more powerful before is mind numbing to me.
basically: you are a thief attacking from 1200 range, with invuln/reflect.
Attacking at 1200 range greatly reduces your burst potential. Greatsword is ranged pressure but its real 100-to-0 burst capability is almost all melee (Mirror Blade into a shatter).
You can Blink in for the burst but then you’re sacrificing your best escape/positioning tool. It’s very much an “all-in” kind of move. Shatter Mesmers could always do it (there are some great videos!), the only thing that really changed now is Confounding Suggestions making the burst easier to stick, and trait changes allowing builds other than 4/4/0/0/6 to be playable without having rubbish damage output.
I think you understood my point. It was meaning “starting from”. And sorry but it was not rubbish at all pre-patch. You just needed to know what you were doing. Because one error and you were dead.
Whereas mesmer now: high reward without any skill.So all other classes are high reward without any skill. Since Mesmer even with the best player skill pre patch had no identity in pvp struggled in wvw unless veiling and golem duty, and was not taken in pve. So since Mesmer joined the ranks with the other classes to actually have meaning in the environments we play we are “high reward without any skill”
That has nothing to do with ‘having meaning’ or not. It has to do with how much risk you need to invest to possibly get the result you want.
Ex. I want to cast meteor shower in the middle of a fight with a war. It is a big powerful spell that can win a fight if:
-If I accept to stay immobile for nearly 4 sec. if I want the full effect, possibly investing in long cd (armor or earth, magnetic aura etc.) to do it more safely or gambling it won’t be interrupted and I will survive that decision.
- If my positioning and placement is good enough and my opponent can’t get out of the aoe with no damage.
-the rgn of the ms is on my side.
Is the risk of playing that card at that moment while blowing these cd worth it? Or did I blew 2 cd and lost 50% + of my life for nothing?
what is the mesmer’s risk if he can reset any fight unless you one shot him? How difficult is it to land your burst if you can prepare it from stealth and it has a relatively low cd on it? How hard is it to interrupt something important when interrupts are so readily available? How dumb and reckless do you have to be to pay for your mistakes?
Landing burst from stealth is more difficult than a thief, was the same pre patch. Only thing is damage is a little off (high)for all classes. This has been discussed at length already and can be learned by playing. Each class has its own risk rewards. That ele your discussing has the same insane burst as a Mesmer, now phenomenal disengage potential and is invaluable in a Zerg.
It’s more than a L2P issue here I’m afraid. Beside, I still don’t see the relevance of saying eles are invaluable to zergs. I mean, yes they are but what does it have to do with risk vs reward?
The damage of the ele is also insanely high, like all now, that is true but, again, it comes with inherent risks that I really don’t see on the mesmers we have now. Like at all.
And your right there is no risk running an ele right now. Insane burst supreme sustain through heals and condition clearing and when it gets ugly zoom off to the races.
Am I to understand that you have run into an invasion of ele that you couldn’t hope to defeat with your mesmer when login in wvw lately? Strangely, what I saw was a spike in mesmer pop, not ele.
I main an ele and the win loss ratio vs mesmers is stupidly low for me despite the huge amount of hours I’ve invested in my profession… I suppose every blasted one of these mesmers I run in also have thousands of hours under their belt… make sense…
I’ll make a deal with you Denis. I’ll remove the dust of my shatter mesmer and you will play the zerk staff ele I roam with… We will test your theory about ele having no risk and compare how much more different it feels risky to you on the other side of the mirror…
Well not for nothing. Roaming with staff is not that optimal. I prefer dagger/dagger scepter.
But even scepter and d/d have risks. Granted celestial d/d is extremely forgivable compared to the rest but it still carry risks. I can take on a celestial d/d ele of my experience and hope to win with my zerk staff. A shatter, PU or mantra mesmer of my level is death incarnate with almost no hope of finishing them if I ever put enough pressure on them.
(edited by Sirbeaumerdier.3740)
basically: you are a thief attacking from 1200 range, with invuln/reflect.
Attacking at 1200 range greatly reduces your burst potential. Greatsword is ranged pressure but its real 100-to-0 burst capability is almost all melee (Mirror Blade into a shatter).
You can Blink in for the burst but then you’re sacrificing your best escape/positioning tool. It’s very much an “all-in” kind of move. Shatter Mesmers could always do it (there are some great videos!), the only thing that really changed now is Confounding Suggestions making the burst easier to stick, and trait changes allowing builds other than 4/4/0/0/6 to be playable without having rubbish damage output.
I think you understood my point. It was meaning “starting from”. And sorry but it was not rubbish at all pre-patch. You just needed to know what you were doing. Because one error and you were dead.
Whereas mesmer now: high reward without any skill.So all other classes are high reward without any skill. Since Mesmer even with the best player skill pre patch had no identity in pvp struggled in wvw unless veiling and golem duty, and was not taken in pve. So since Mesmer joined the ranks with the other classes to actually have meaning in the environments we play we are “high reward without any skill”
That has nothing to do with ‘having meaning’ or not. It has to do with how much risk you need to invest to possibly get the result you want.
Ex. I want to cast meteor shower in the middle of a fight with a war. It is a big powerful spell that can win a fight if:
-If I accept to stay immobile for nearly 4 sec. if I want the full effect, possibly investing in long cd (armor or earth, magnetic aura etc.) to do it more safely or gambling it won’t be interrupted and I will survive that decision.
- If my positioning and placement is good enough and my opponent can’t get out of the aoe with no damage.
-the rgn of the ms is on my side.
Is the risk of playing that card at that moment while blowing these cd worth it? Or did I blew 2 cd and lost 50% + of my life for nothing?
what is the mesmer’s risk if he can reset any fight unless you one shot him? How difficult is it to land your burst if you can prepare it from stealth and it has a relatively low cd on it? How hard is it to interrupt something important when interrupts are so readily available? How dumb and reckless do you have to be to pay for your mistakes?
Landing burst from stealth is more difficult than a thief, was the same pre patch. Only thing is damage is a little off (high)for all classes. This has been discussed at length already and can be learned by playing. Each class has its own risk rewards. That ele your discussing has the same insane burst as a Mesmer, now phenomenal disengage potential and is invaluable in a Zerg.
It’s more than a L2P issue here I’m afraid. Beside, I still don’t see the relevance of saying eles are invaluable to zergs. I mean, yes they are but what does it have to do with risk vs reward?
The damage of the ele is also insanely high, like all now, that is true but, again, it comes with inherent risks that I really don’t see on the mesmers we have now. Like at all.
And your right there is no risk running an ele right now. Insane burst supreme sustain through heals and condition clearing and when it gets ugly zoom off to the races.
Am I to understand that you have run into an invasion of ele that you couldn’t hope to defeat with your mesmer when login in wvw lately? Strangely, what I saw was a spike in mesmer pop, not ele.
I main an ele and the win loss ratio vs mesmers is stupidly low for me despite the huge amount of hours I’ve invested in my profession… I suppose every blasted one of these mesmers I run in also have thousands of hours under their belt… make sense…
I’ll make a deal with you Denis. I’ll remove the dust of my shatter mesmer and you will play the zerk staff ele I roam with… We will test your theory about ele having no risk and compare how much more different it feels risky to you on the other side of the mirror…
Revealed is not a counter to stealth. It can do nothing on ppl who are in stealth. It has power on ppl who are not. This is the real problem with stealth. It lacks counter play.
What is all this non-sense about Arcana being mandatory? Water is, true, but not arcana. Come one ppl, stop being so conservative.
I don’t know why people are so scared to play without arcana or even water to try it out it doesn’t cost them anything.
Earth can completely replace Arcana as long as you run water and a energy sigil. Air/Earth/Water with zephyr’s boon will give you enough fury uptime, soothing disruption+energy sigil enough regen+endurance, and earth will give you a ton protection with protection on aura’s+soothing ice. Not to mention if you take Rock solid you can run Ether Renewal much more reliably than any other non-earth build. Oh and I don’t have to mention stone heart.
I would certainly run a fire/water/earth build if I wanted to put on traveler runes instead of hoelbrak which i think is certainly viable.
I find it strange that people won’t experiment more.
I experimented, it’s just not as good.
one of the key elements is prot on earth attune due to EAtt is usable anytime, whereas prot on aura requires a stunbreak, or an aura-generator. this is a massive difference.
evasive arcana by itself is better every other GM.
at the end of the day, you get more from arcane than any other trait line except water.
I personally never went back to arcana after trying fire instead. The damage I get is worth it without any hesitation. Not going for water is doable as long as you manage to have decent condi cleanse but water is still king in that regard.
basically: you are a thief attacking from 1200 range, with invuln/reflect.
Attacking at 1200 range greatly reduces your burst potential. Greatsword is ranged pressure but its real 100-to-0 burst capability is almost all melee (Mirror Blade into a shatter).
You can Blink in for the burst but then you’re sacrificing your best escape/positioning tool. It’s very much an “all-in” kind of move. Shatter Mesmers could always do it (there are some great videos!), the only thing that really changed now is Confounding Suggestions making the burst easier to stick, and trait changes allowing builds other than 4/4/0/0/6 to be playable without having rubbish damage output.
I think you understood my point. It was meaning “starting from”. And sorry but it was not rubbish at all pre-patch. You just needed to know what you were doing. Because one error and you were dead.
Whereas mesmer now: high reward without any skill.So all other classes are high reward without any skill. Since Mesmer even with the best player skill pre patch had no identity in pvp struggled in wvw unless veiling and golem duty, and was not taken in pve. So since Mesmer joined the ranks with the other classes to actually have meaning in the environments we play we are “high reward without any skill”
That has nothing to do with ‘having meaning’ or not. It has to do with how much risk you need to invest to possibly get the result you want.
Ex. I want to cast meteor shower in the middle of a fight with a war. It is a big powerful spell that can win a fight if:
-If I accept to stay immobile for nearly 4 sec. if I want the full effect, possibly investing in long cd (armor or earth, magnetic aura etc.) to do it more safely or gambling it won’t be interrupted and I will survive that decision.
- If my positioning and placement is good enough and my opponent can’t get out of the aoe with no damage.
-the rgn of the ms is on my side.
Is the risk of playing that card at that moment while blowing these cd worth it? Or did I blew 2 cd and lost 50% + of my life for nothing?
what is the mesmer’s risk if he can reset any fight unless you one shot him? How difficult is it to land your burst if you can prepare it from stealth and it has a relatively low cd on it? How hard is it to interrupt something important when interrupts are so readily available? How dumb and reckless do you have to be to pay for your mistakes?
Landing burst from stealth is more difficult than a thief, was the same pre patch. Only thing is damage is a little off (high)for all classes. This has been discussed at length already and can be learned by playing. Each class has its own risk rewards. That ele your discussing has the same insane burst as a Mesmer, now phenomenal disengage potential and is invaluable in a Zerg.
It’s more than a L2P issue here I’m afraid. Beside, I still don’t see the relevance of saying eles are invaluable to zergs. I mean, yes they are but what does it have to do with risk vs reward?
The damage of the ele is also insanely high, like all now, that is true but, again, it comes with inherent risks that I really don’t see on the mesmers we have now. Like at all.
basically: you are a thief attacking from 1200 range, with invuln/reflect.
Attacking at 1200 range greatly reduces your burst potential. Greatsword is ranged pressure but its real 100-to-0 burst capability is almost all melee (Mirror Blade into a shatter).
You can Blink in for the burst but then you’re sacrificing your best escape/positioning tool. It’s very much an “all-in” kind of move. Shatter Mesmers could always do it (there are some great videos!), the only thing that really changed now is Confounding Suggestions making the burst easier to stick, and trait changes allowing builds other than 4/4/0/0/6 to be playable without having rubbish damage output.
I think you understood my point. It was meaning “starting from”. And sorry but it was not rubbish at all pre-patch. You just needed to know what you were doing. Because one error and you were dead.
Whereas mesmer now: high reward without any skill.So all other classes are high reward without any skill. Since Mesmer even with the best player skill pre patch had no identity in pvp struggled in wvw unless veiling and golem duty, and was not taken in pve. So since Mesmer joined the ranks with the other classes to actually have meaning in the environments we play we are “high reward without any skill”
That has nothing to do with ‘having meaning’ or not. It has to do with how much risk you need to invest to possibly get the result you want.
Ex. I want to cast meteor shower in the middle of a fight with a war. It is a big powerful spell that can win a fight if:
-If I accept to stay immobile for nearly 4 sec. if I want the full effect, possibly investing in long cd (armor or earth, magnetic aura etc.) to do it more safely or gambling it won’t be interrupted and I will survive that decision.
- If my positioning and placement is good enough and my opponent can’t get out of the aoe with no damage.
-the rgn of the ms is on my side.
Is the risk of playing that card at that moment while blowing these cd worth it? Or did I blew 2 cd and lost 50% + of my life for nothing?
what is the mesmer’s risk if he can reset any fight unless you one shot him? How difficult is it to land your burst if you can prepare it from stealth and it has a relatively low cd on it? How hard is it to interrupt something important when interrupts are so readily available? How dumb and reckless do you have to be to pay for your mistakes?
So i recently start playng with my mesmer in pvp, and in one of my first match one of my teammates told me that i am using an OP class and started telling baad things of me. And this happened to others matches and other players too.
Why all this hate? I though that the most hated class was thief, not mesmer
btw, i was using a burst shatter build that a friend of mine suggested me. Is that build so OP?
Because Lockdown is so easy to play, shatter even more.
for a low lvl player (pvp pov): You make high “burst” (with so low cd, it is more “high sustain damage”) and you have a good sustain.
for a high lvl player: quite invuln.
So much reflect/interrupt/damage. And I don’t even talk about condi mesmers which are just easy bunkers.It is so easy to play now with so much damage, not anymore high risk/ high reward, it is not interesting anymore to play my mesmer.
basically: you are a thief attacking from 1200 range, with invuln/reflect.
Currently the only way to get down a mesmer: He does not clear condi, and you apply high condi pressure thanks to burning, but burning is going to get the nerf hammer.We asked for a buff, Anet did it OP. Let’s swing the “balance hammer”.
Exactly!
Mesmer is an awesome profession but right now it’s simply ridiculous to fight against it even when you got thousands of hours of exp on your main and have faced tons of mesmers in your career. I get that it is fun to feel godmode but if challenges is what you crave you could pick a better profession atm IMHO.
Ppl asked why the hate for mesmer right now? I got nothing vs mesmers. On the contrary. However, I hate feeling next to powerless despite having 4k hours on my main even vs obviously far from top-notch mesmers and I think anybody would too.
I have no idea why people keep bringing up WvW as grounds for nerfing PU. Not only was the biggest offender(condi PU) neutered with the patch, but a majority of the time all they’re talking about is 1v1 and small group roaming which should have zero impact on balancing. Mesmer wants to sit in stealth forever? Run away. They probably only have blink for catching up to you and if they’re not running traveler runes, you shouldn’t have too much trouble escaping them, especially not if you have your own good movement skills(depends on class and build).
1) Many play wvw as their main end game mode and are affected by such things.
2) wvw is where the level of absurd reaches levels that can be just stupid some times.
3) Because regardless of A-Net saying they didn’t care for balance in wvw there are limits to that line of thinking. They still have some responsibilities toward that game mode and had no obligation to make a known problem worse.
4) Running away is not only no fun, it’s simply not always an option.
PU rly sux for almost all in wvw atm and the defense for the huge buff that a build that needed none received is at best lame no matter the game mode. This build is up there with all the no risk all reward hall of fame.
IMO, the biggest balance issue with what PU does is when opponents actually play correctly by counter/avoiding the Mesmer’s initial burst incoming by blowing utilities (usually multiple) plus evading/using endurance and you just wait it out with stealth for the next cycle burst while continuing to apply illusions pressure without being revealed. If the illusions are spread apart or if the fail to kill off the phantasms, they are screwed.
You nailed it right here for me. It is very frustrating knowing you did all you could without a single mistake and yet the mesmer, who has tons of get out of jail free cards, easily overcome you despite all that. The feeling of powerlessness is real.
What is all this non-sense about Arcana being mandatory? Water is, true, but not arcana. Come one ppl, stop being so conservative.
Also the pure lack of knowledge. The hate is from reading or listening from others. People still worried about clone death. Lol. Please play the Mesmer then understand what’s going on in order to fight them. It is blind hate. Because we Mesmer use stealth they scream pu. Just really a lack of basic knowledge and the riot mentality. Hate for no reason.
Like I said, I do play a mesmer and I do fight a lot of them too. It is not just blind hate. They really are extremely hard to defeat at all for a large majority of the builds even if facing players that have thousands more hours on other professions.
Some build factually carry little to no risk vs high reward and were made even worse after the patch. Looking at you PU. Ppl have legitimate reasons to complain in this case whether you feel like acknowledging it or not.
If this was even remotely true then were are the dominating Mesmer teams? People are sore Mesmer can actually fight back. This random pu hate from not being able to kill a wvw Mesmer. Pu is awful in pvp. No team support extremely selfish.
Just wow… maybe you need to learn to read. WvW is the context I’m ranting about. In pvp you dominate by caping so of course stealth is a double edge sword there since you either disapear or cap. If pvp where death matches I would definitely bet on the mesmer team atm.
It is clear to me you don’t want to hear a word of it, and I don’t care, but it would help the discussion if ppl would at least try to argue in good faith.
It seems you care about a 1v1 game mode. Wvw is not balanced by its very nature. More people= win so why complain? Pu is a selfish trait that allows a Mesmer to get away more easily. Just by taking it you are reducing your potential damage output for more defense. Seems balanced to me.
It sure isn’t balanced but there are limits. It is no secret that stealth in wvw is a problem since a long time and it would probably be best to avoid making it worse. Beside, I don’t only care of 1v1. All of wvw feel this even if roamers are definitely the first victims.
As for PU being purely defensive and balanced because it has a lower damage than shatter, I respectfully disagree. The damage ATM, condi or not, is so high that even if you sacrifice a good deal of it you still stay dangerous. Heck, a war in full nomad gear who hit like a wet noodle pale in his defensive capabilities in comparison to a PU who will still do much more damage via condi. It is not balanced at all.
I can already see it… Air magic war horn skill: Fog of war (gain stealth for 3 sec). I should stop thinking about it because the idea of more stealth in game makes me sick.
Also the pure lack of knowledge. The hate is from reading or listening from others. People still worried about clone death. Lol. Please play the Mesmer then understand what’s going on in order to fight them. It is blind hate. Because we Mesmer use stealth they scream pu. Just really a lack of basic knowledge and the riot mentality. Hate for no reason.
Like I said, I do play a mesmer and I do fight a lot of them too. It is not just blind hate. They really are extremely hard to defeat at all for a large majority of the builds even if facing players that have thousands more hours on other professions.
Some build factually carry little to no risk vs high reward and were made even worse after the patch. Looking at you PU. Ppl have legitimate reasons to complain in this case whether you feel like acknowledging it or not.
If this was even remotely true then were are the dominating Mesmer teams? People are sore Mesmer can actually fight back. This random pu hate from not being able to kill a wvw Mesmer. Pu is awful in pvp. No team support extremely selfish.
Just wow… maybe you need to learn to read. WvW is the context I’m ranting about. In pvp you dominate by caping so of course stealth is a double edge sword there since you either disapear or cap. If pvp where death matches I would definitely bet on the mesmer team atm.
It is clear to me you don’t want to hear a word of it, and I don’t care, but it would help the discussion if ppl would at least try to argue in good faith.