Guild Wars 2

I must be playing another druid because mine is awesome and I hardly ever die when playing it. What is so bad about it?

What is this bullkitten at the final fight where you are asked to close floating rifts? Is there something I do wrong, or a mastery I lack? I tried everything and I couldn’t close any of the floating rifts ever.

I did my story solo on my glass ele. It is doable. You just have to be more careful of how you engage the enemy.

The story of HoT is a good deal more compelling than the Zaitan one. A great improvement.

Gliding is fantastic. It is so fantastic that I die almost always at least once the minute I leave Maguuma new section.

The maps are beautiful and well designed and the content very challenging. I would have like to have 1 or 2 more such maps but those we got are awesome.

The music, as always, is awesome.

The mobs are much more interesting and intelligent in the way they fight. Specially the snipers.

I’m among those who are disappointed about the decision to go from 400 to 250 HP since it essentially make the bulk of the hero challenges for long time players essentially irrelevant and lessen the progression experience I like in that kind of game. ANET made the mistake of giving Elite spec without making it clear that what players are trying will have to be earned after release and people assumed they would have it all for free right now…

Mastery is a fun and interesting way to provide a different progression. Let’s hope it resist to the nerf syndicate.

The pvp will have to balance itself out in time and I’m really not sold on the WvW new maps but, overall, I’d give the expansion a solid 8/10.

Can I ask to all you solo/duo ‘guildposers’ why you even want a guild to begin with? A guild is all about people and you guys don’t want to have none of it… Sound like a vegan complaining about not getting a hunting riffle.

I’m still on ascended zerk and, yeah, you can’t really make mistakes. It is a good practice though.

MUDse.7623:

see that is ur major problem with the build u dont control the fight. thats why i said the only thing about this build that might be ‘OP’ is its annoyance level, but i doubt annoyance is a nerf reason.

Well, I do think perma stealth should be impossible alone no matter what, and that damage, no matter the source, should reveal your presence.

I’m not for blindly nerfing thieves or whoever. I say give them something of equivalent significance else than stealth to compensate for anything we remove from them. Stealth is too prevalent in fights in this game. It should be a tactical advantage but not a constant combat one. Beside, a skill should be counterable by a skill not only by resources.

Being annoying does lessen gaming experience, and anything that does that should be addressed, IMO.

babazhook.6805:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Jana.6831:

jdallen.5179:

With respect, jana, you answered a different question; we were doing what you were suggesting.

The question I actually asked was, how does a trapper thief kill 4 or 5 PC’s, given parity in player skill and equipment? What do they equip? What skills do they use? How do they sequence them?

That should highlight either what’s broken, or how to counter it.

AoE skills, every class has them, use them. Dodge, also every class is able to do that, cleanse condis, yet again every class can do that.
In short: Think (not everybody can do that)

That is one of the most blatant example of someone not discussing in good faith. It is FAR from that simple. I play all professions but main an ele and I can tell you right of the bat that my staff ele has tons of AOE and condi cleanse, as you well know, but that it is not making up for the stupidly unfair advantage of perma stealth. Not by a long shot. You are still relatively powerless in front of that kind of build since you cant expect thieves to stay inside your pretty red circles. You are pretty much stuff in a reactive position or at best flailing blindly around crossing our fingers big time.

I’d be curious to see you on other build and professions to see how you deal with that without having to bail or resort to stealth traps.

Not every build is intended to have a counter to every build. Again I have an elementalist whom Thief condition builds have no way of harming. My elementalist does not have stealth.

Now tell me. What harm can that thief do to your ele if the thief perma stealthed?

That all depend on context. I’m not immune to condi and if he strikes me at the right moment it can go down really fast since I have 13kish life. That thief might also not be alone and still able to cap an objective if I decide to bail because I’m powerless. He can do a lot. The point is, he control a situation I can merely react to it and hope or concede.

Ripkord.8567:

… iam realising that you guys who are complaining about stealth thiefs are just to lazy to use anti stealth traps and skills…

If your class has not any chance to reveal a perma stealth thief, go get some anti stealth traps. Or joint with a class that can reveal stealth ( more Classes are able to do that in HoT)…

Now stop ranting about permastealth thief, go and build a build that has CONDITION removal in it. Use it and stop beeing a crybaby.

Anet has already done something against it long ago and even added with HoT more options exactly for this situation.

What kind of non-sense is that? Not all professions have access to so called ‘anti-stealth’ skills/traits and you can’t reasonably expect ppl to always carry supply and traps at all time. Oh, wait mister invisi trapper thief, I have to go to speldan get myself supplies for my stealth trap because I just dropped mine into a ram… brb…

No, seriously ppl drop it with the stealth trap BS. It’s just insulting to ppl intelligence to try that argument.

Perma stealth is kitten period. It provides extremely poor fights on top of being utterly unfair. It’s only fun for trolls and I’m sad ANET feed them so well.

Jana.6831:

jdallen.5179:

With respect, jana, you answered a different question; we were doing what you were suggesting.

The question I actually asked was, how does a trapper thief kill 4 or 5 PC’s, given parity in player skill and equipment? What do they equip? What skills do they use? How do they sequence them?

That should highlight either what’s broken, or how to counter it.

AoE skills, every class has them, use them. Dodge, also every class is able to do that, cleanse condis, yet again every class can do that.
In short: Think (not everybody can do that)

That is one of the most blatant example of someone not discussing in good faith. It is FAR from that simple. I play all professions but main an ele and I can tell you right of the bat that my staff ele has tons of AOE and condi cleanse, as you well know, but that it is not making up for the stupidly unfair advantage of perma stealth. Not by a long shot. You are still relatively powerless in front of that kind of build since you cant expect thieves to stay inside your pretty red circles. You are pretty much stuff in a reactive position or at best flailing blindly around crossing our fingers big time.

I’d be curious to see you on other build and professions to see how you deal with that without having to bail or resort to stealth traps.

TinkTinkPOOF.9201:

blakdoxa.7520:

Yeah after the change my old raiding guild broke up and I haven’t played WvW since. All we did was zerg busting… Those were some of the best moments I had in WvW.

This. There is no middle ground between cc and stab. All we have done is shifted from one extreme to the other in LARGE (zerg) fights. This change made zero sense to me…

I enjoy zerg busting, if you had a skilled team, you could take on larger numbers of random blobs and gave counter play, because if you speced and give up other options/builds for stab, you could mitigate the bulk of the CC, which is counter play, if you did not build or have well timed stab, you would run out and get CCed to death. Now however, requires even more skill and proper stab calls, but gives a MASSIVE advantage to random CC usage, to the point calling CC doesn’t even matter because there is so much of it that it strips stacks down to nothing. There is also so much speced CC because of this new issue because after a given point it becomes so effective because of how easy stacks are removed. If CC only hit for one stack and anything else for an “immune” time was ignored it would require the CC side to call and have skillful use of CC or it would be wasted, your eles would need to call and stagger static just like guards etc have to call and stagger stab, why is the skillful play limited to one side?

Before the stab nerf, we never had an issue with CCing other zergs, so we never had issue with it, they either speced for it WHICH IS COUNTER PLAY, or they didn’t, if your build or comp depends on CC to win, but the other team is speced to stab, why should you not lose? This is counter play, just like some class builds have hard counters, if you devote to much into something you become weak to something else.

Before we had front line, mid line dmg dealers, back line casters for pure aoe dmg and a few gank, now you see 80% back line casters, you see HUGE groups come to a choke and the fight will stagnate for minutes at a time because the comp is so backline/caster heavy that no one is pushing in. Its become laughable.

I miss the days when you had stab calls, eles calling static fields for people to burst on etc etc, now it’s just throw every CC you have at once on the front line, how is that skillful counter play? It’s not, its face roll.

IDK for you but here we still call for stab and cc… and waters etc. I’m all for a balance but not going back to the ultimate reign of lazy stab and cc uselessness. NOBODY was playing without stab. NOBODY. It wasn’t ‘counter play’, it was ’let’s make an entire pan of the game irrelevant’. And frankly, ‘control’ is still by far the most crippled member of the damage/support/control triad.

Maybe putting a limit on some cc might be a way to balance things. I’m open to suggestions but going back is not an option for me. Yes, we do have more backlines than before but how is it surprising considering just how many wars and guards were dominating before in the boring hammer train meta?

As a side note, some ppl also seem to mix ‘skill’ with ‘build’ when they call on past glory days. Having a good build, or comp, doesn’t make you ‘skillful’ (specially when the build isn’t even from you and you merely obey the command of the doritos). It makes you better positioned for the battle ahead and maybe more disciplined. If you were playing in a hammer train with ppl you were used to, and all on your side were on voice com in the past while facing a non hammer train of random pugs, you weren’t winning BECAUSE of your awesome skills, you were winning first and foremost because of the builds and coordination you were enjoying and the enemy couldn’t.

A zerk war managing to hold his ground with just his shield equipped vs a cele d/d ele OTOH surely requires no small amount of skill. You aren’t carried by your build/comp for sure. In my book, skillful players do good even when they are at a clear distinct disadvantage, not when they win while surfing their cheese vs players who are not.

Kodiak.3281:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

It is your right to disagree but that doesn’t make it any more valid. What happened to baiting those static fields and using the stun breakers and stab really when needed rather than just be done with all cc for a ridiculously long time?

Baiting Static Fields? Because any proper zerg doesn’t have 4-8 in waiting to throw theirs down if the first one doesn’t stick? I mean get real, Elementalists are absurdly common now and everyone of them knows Static -> Earth -> Unyielding Earth is the staple combo now for WvW because with only a handful of them doing this on top of other CCs (Spectral Wall, Line of Warding, etc) it’ll strip Stab faster than it could ever be reapplied. I mean baiting is all well and good as far as tactics go but lets not pretend like CC is anything but overly abundant after the stability change.

Sure, but if enough of them are wasted you then will have enough stab for what remains.

Xiohunter.2561:

Anyone QQing about this build needs to L2P. This build is the epitome of a one trick pony. Sure, perma stealth isn’t fun to fight, but it’s not hard either. Just MOVE. Caltrops is a midsize AOE, just get out of it. Use a condi cleanse and move. Ghost Teef can’t chase, it is a one shot condi bomb that relies on RNG to get lots of immob to make you stand in caltrops. If you don’t bring -duration food, and condi cleanse, then you deserve to die. This is how WvW has been for years.

I love how all the “solutions” amount to “go away” (which means possibly conceding the objective) or “always have stealth traps and enough supplies”. If L2P means either of these, I’m sorry but that isn’t acceptable and the complaint is definitely legit.

Dano.5298:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

coglin.1867:

Vornollo.5182:

Due to the Stability change, it’s simply impossible for small groups to be rewarded for skilled gameplay.
Everything is tipping in favour of the zerg, despite the claims of Anet to try and step away from that…

We’re they particularly that skilled, if they were that dependent on a single specific boon?

Not really, no. It makes me smile when I hear this “skilled play is dead” non-sense. It wasn’t anymore “skilled” to play the way we were than it is now. It is just a bit different depending on pop involved.

I’m all for a balance but reverting back to cc being useless is a huge no-no for me. If you are that skilled, you have found ways to deal with this like so many of us did and it is not only by pewpewing afar only. We do have plenty of clashes at close range. We are just a lot more cautious because now it’s possible to literally run into a wall as oppose to just ignore it.

I 100% disagree. with the way stab is working (essentially not at all) you don’t even have the opportunity to play skilled. You can’t fight zergs, you can kite them, but you can’t fight them. The game went from guild groups wanting to stay under 15 to apparently every guild tagging up, blobbing with necros and venoms.

It is your right to disagree but that doesn’t make it any more valid. What happened to baiting those static fields and using the stun breakers and stab really when needed rather than just be done with all cc for a ridiculously long time?

I have to deal with these rat wells too and believe me I also hate them a lot. That being said, having CC being useful for a change is well worth even rat wells to me. It let other kind of players a chance to feel more relevant while not preventing ppl from popping their stab at crucial moment.

I personally find immob a lot more problematic than hard CC are to be honest and warriors are way better equipped than many to deal with that since any movement skill just get rid of it.

coglin.1867:

Vornollo.5182:

Due to the Stability change, it’s simply impossible for small groups to be rewarded for skilled gameplay.
Everything is tipping in favour of the zerg, despite the claims of Anet to try and step away from that…

We’re they particularly that skilled, if they were that dependent on a single specific boon?

Not really, no. It makes me smile when I hear this “skilled play is dead” non-sense. It wasn’t anymore “skilled” to play the way we were than it is now. It is just a bit different depending on pop involved.

I’m all for a balance but reverting back to cc being useless is a huge no-no for me. If you are that skilled, you have found ways to deal with this like so many of us did and it is not only by pewpewing afar only. We do have plenty of clashes at close range. We are just a lot more cautious because now it’s possible to literally run into a wall as oppose to just ignore it.

Honestly, after the first few honor offenses, where a player get a cute little warning shot, the system should start hitting them where it really hurt: rank or xp. After they regress by one lvl maybe they will realize being a leech isn’t going to work so well…

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Locuz.2651:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

With all due respect, Locuz:

You have 191 games played total and you are wolf rank. Your win/lose ratio is still volatile at this point. A 10 in a row win streak or lose will dramatically alter your win/lose ratio. That account would also be low MMR so you haven’t yet felt how punishing high MMR solo is. Don’t know what I mean by this? Exactly…

Also it makes me have ask: Is it an alt account? Are you an experienced player on a different account? If so, joining low MMR matches and tearing around vs. deer and dolyaks hardly counts for anything in this discussion.

Do you realize how fast your MMR will climb if you do well? Your MMR settles (as in stops being volatile) way way before 191 games. Its more like 10-20. After 191 games with a decent winratio you will be at top end of the ladder with ease.

A 10 in a row losing streak? I never experienced those during the 10.000 games i played.

How punishing high MMR is? The account on the screenshot was my alt US account, it was top 10 back then (devs feel free to verify). On my main account ive been top 30 aswell and been in and out of the top 100 for like 2 years straight with about 10k rated games played in total. So i think i have a good idea.

So you’re a player with 10,000+ actual matches on your real account that logs in to an alt account that is wolf rank with only 191 total matches played, to tear around vs. deer and dolyak.

I was thinking the same. No wonder it’s easier if he faces players who are ridiculously less experimented than he is.

Synosius.9876:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Synosius.9876:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Synosius.9876:

Server wide skill and knowledge is the largest factor in the long term success. This is why we laugh at band wagons, theres no brain behind the wheel and they win from week to week just cause bodies everywhere. They eventually fizzle out and drop.

If you can provide a fun and positive community growth will be permanent but it has to be slow enough for ppl to adjust and bond.

You are preaching at the choir as far as I’m concerned.

Then you should know this server we speak of has been holding a much higher position than they deserve.

The same MU on week 38 we got 2nd place.

Like I told you, I do share your frustration. I know full well that the said server is being carried by a relatively small pop and that there is a lot of air in the bag of chips. That being said, it is still horrendously unfair to try to make the above data speak in ways it can’t, or say we deserve more or less the rank we have. Are the people below working harder or are they gifted with much more talent? If so than why aren’t they above? If anything, what is really frustrating of the said server is just how much potential lies stagnant considering a lot of things we both know.

My statement was quite broad but ofc you think its about us. I would like to discuss my views at length but post would probably get deleted with infraction and thread locked.

Lets use FA for example, from my pov not on fa, is that they are getting focused by their opposition. Their place and ratio is the logical conclusion of the scenario.

I said there were ‘reasons’ you turned that into ‘deserve’…
Play this out in your head.

Edit: I luv wvw and talk about it endlessly. I like to get to know all their communities as best I can.

To be honest, I was not aiming you, even in a broad sense, at all. Maybe we will have a chance to discuss it on TS sometimes.

Synosius.9876:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Synosius.9876:

Server wide skill and knowledge is the largest factor in the long term success. This is why we laugh at band wagons, theres no brain behind the wheel and they win from week to week just cause bodies everywhere. They eventually fizzle out and drop.

If you can provide a fun and positive community growth will be permanent but it has to be slow enough for ppl to adjust and bond.

You are preaching at the choir as far as I’m concerned.

Then you should know this server we speak of has been holding a much higher position than they deserve.

The same MU on week 38 we got 2nd place.

Like I told you, I do share your frustration. I know full well that the said server is being carried by a relatively small pop and that there is a lot of air in the bag of chips. That being said, it is still horrendously unfair to try to make the above data speak in ways it can’t, or say we deserve more or less the rank we have. Are the people below working harder or are they gifted with much more talent? If so than why aren’t they above? If anything, what is really frustrating of the said server is just how much potential lies stagnant considering a lot of things we both know.

Synosius.9876:

Server wide skill and knowledge is the largest factor in the long term success. This is why we laugh at band wagons, theres no brain behind the wheel and they win from week to week just cause bodies everywhere. They eventually fizzle out and drop.

If you can provide a fun and positive community growth will be permanent but it has to be slow enough for ppl to adjust and bond.

You are preaching at the choir as far as I’m concerned.

Synosius.9876:

Having played on or against many of these servers I can say there is a reason they are 3rds.

Come on Eko. I feel your [PAIN] too, honestly, and I’ve played on other servers too but if you are telling me we ‘deserve’ to have been paired with servers way over our weight class 3 weeks out of the last 4 (are we supposed to get a k/d of 1 or over in that situation?) or that we will deserve to roll over lower servers when we fall a tier back (because we previously deserved to get down?)I don’t know what to tell you.

I really understand where your frustration comes from but this is just wrong.

Straegen.2938:

This chart is really showing how awful it is to be the third place server in a tier. The only exception is NSP which is performing very well.

Among many other things, yeah.

The sad thing is, the bulk of ppl seem to view that kind of metric as a ‘true’ measure of skill rather than yet another measure of just how kittened or advantaged your server is in a match-up more often than not around the clock.

Of course if 18 out of 24 hours you have significant numerical advantage over your opponents it will affect this rating in a way or another. And even if you got a pretty close glicko between opponents the peak activity of your server might be advantaged for that kind of metric if you happen to get an advantage at the ‘right’ moments of the clock where and when there is plenty to kill while being favored activity-wise.

The only way to measure what many dream of measuring would be to ensure equality for many variables. Good luck with that…

If only ppl would have enough knowledge to not make data say stuff it doesn’t…

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Puck they may not have access to a reveal skill but they do to Stealth Disruptor, which was put in so all classes have access to reveal, there’s also pressuring the Black Powder field, there are ways to counter this hell even if your run condi cleanse the thief will have alot harder time to kill you, but people don’t want to do this, they say it’s an inconvenience and that there are better options for utilities or traits and items to use, well if you are dying to trapper thief that easy those aren’t better options for you.

yes it’s a gimmicky build yes it has counters to it, yes Anet knew what they were doing before making the changes to thief traps, actually use the advice to counter it and it won’t be an issue, but I hope it brings attention to The state of the thief and get Anet to redesign the class so it gets fixed so gimmicky builds like this don’t pop up.

I’m sorry but having to buy and carry stealth disruptor traps and the 10 supply required for each of them to even have a possible ‘counter’, if we can even call it that, is just not reasonable nor acceptable. You can’t always keep that much supply at all time anyway. Beside why do I have to shell money and token to counter that BS? A skill should be countered by a skill, not resources.

For me resorting to an argument like the stealth disruptor is the litmus test of good faith in this debate.

Random.4691:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Honestly, I don’t know what you guys are complaining about. Before the stab change the “control” aspect of the game was next to useless 95% of the time because nothing in the game would ever be affected by it because: stab, RI, invul, defiance etc.

Now it’s “possible” for cc to not be utterly useless in some part of the game in front of hammer trains and it’s a bad news? I’m sorry but I too have to deal with cc too and if you can’t, you do something seriously wrong with all the tools you have and the wave of “stab 1, 2, 3, 4” ppl call upon in larger fights. I mean how much total immunity do you need?

What’s next? Remove “control” from the “damage, support control” triad the game is supposedly based on? The control aspect in this game is already super crippled.

The problem is there is way to much CC, CC was useless before because once again players just blew everything on Inc. Go watch a video of any organized guild fighting, they timed their CC’s for full effectiveness. The hammer train running everyone over is a kitten poor excuse as well, if stability was so frequent and easy to come by then you should have never had a problem with a hammer train. My guess is just like CC everyone was just mashing their keys blowing all their stability and everything that would help in an unorganized cluster kitten and therefore Stab is OP.

Most players are bad, that was the biggest problem with stability. Now the sheer number of CC’s in the game have made it so even when cycling stab it’s pretty much a waste of time.

What you bring is valid but in the end I do really think we have enough stab and stun breaks to deal with the cc we have now. You just have to prioritize a bit and it shouldn’t be that problematic.

Aeolus.3615:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Honestly, I don’t know what you guys are complaining about. Before the stab change the “control” aspect of the game was next to useless 95% of the time because nothing in the game would ever be affected by it because: stab, RI, invul, defiance etc.

Now it’s “possible” for cc to not be utterly useless in some part of the game in front of hammer trains and it’s a bad news? I’m sorry but I too have to deal with cc too and if you can’t, you do something seriously wrong with all the tools you have and the wave of “stab 1, 2, 3, 4” ppl call upon in larger fights. I mean how much total immunity do you need?

What’s next? Remove “control” from the “damage, support control” triad the game is supposedly based on? The control aspect in this game is already super crippled.

Stability was to easy to mantain, now is the other way, CC seasilly overrun stability, there isnt a midle term to it.

I’m honestly not convinced that it is overran at all. That it will eventually take effect is kinda supposed to happen because otherwise why even implement that kind of skill? True, you can have many cc in a large fight but you also have many stab sources mobilized by a lot of your forces too. I know of almost no Necro, for example, not associated with Guard in parties just for THAT reason.

You can even argue that several skills were buffed regarding stab and boon ripping. Now many skill pulse stab instead of just giving it one time as before which ensure you will regain stab very shortly as opposed to before.

Anyway, IMHO, your not exactly showing “skill” either when you mindlessly charge into a fray while being immune to cc, condi and damage anyway. My grandmother too can survive with all that without any problem even vs 100000000000000 opponents. I guess people miss the feeling of being unstoppable is what happened.

Honestly, I don’t know what you guys are complaining about. Before the stab change the “control” aspect of the game was next to useless 95% of the time because nothing in the game would ever be affected by it because: stab, RI, invul, defiance etc.

Now it’s “possible” for cc to not be utterly useless in some part of the game in front of hammer trains and it’s a bad news? I’m sorry but I too have to deal with cc too and if you can’t, you do something seriously wrong with all the tools you have and the wave of “stab 1, 2, 3, 4” ppl call upon in larger fights. I mean how much total immunity do you need?

What’s next? Remove “control” from the “damage, support control” triad the game is supposedly based on? The control aspect in this game is already super crippled.

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

Well you only really need one per objective

RIP…

Reality check for you. Not everyone play in T1. Down below what seem so simple for you is a real nightmare and absolutely not viable. We have all the problem in the world to have 1 dedicated scout per bl is our reality since forever. How many times did I had to sacrifice myself to be that guy because otherwise there would be nobody.

Beside, why does it have to be kittening stealth again? Why can’t it be another kind of far less problematic defense?

There is a reason that lower tier servers don’t often have scouts, they don’t have the forces to stop the attack even if it is scouted. In terms of stealth affecting the ease of taking objectives I don’t think it will play much of a role. In terms of stealth affecting how many times people die running around solo, that will be significantly higher.

Believe me, we could have prevent at least 80% of out objective being flipped had we the means to put a scout in each towers. Beside, we play vs servers of relatively similar strength as us so their means are often similar to ours (Well except for the last few weeks but that is another story).

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

Well you only really need one per objective

RIP…

Reality check for you. Not everyone play in T1. Down below what seem so simple for you is a real nightmare and absolutely not viable. We have all the problem in the world to have 1 dedicated scout per bl is our reality since forever. How many times did I had to sacrifice myself to be that guy because otherwise there would be nobody.

Beside, why does it have to be kittening stealth again? Why can’t it be another kind of far less problematic defense?

cillard.3986:

In addition, if metrics support it …..PPT from objectives could be reduced 50% during off peak hours (determined case by case by the servers involved in the current matchup). For example, half PPT may be applied (all times eastern) from 2am to 6am in the current T1 matchup, not applied at all in the current T2 matchup, and applied from 4am to 2pm in the current T3 matchup.

I like the idea of getting more score out of kills. However, I’m also aware of the dangers of such a metric in a very unbalanced environment. In the end I seriously doubt it would measure what many would like to measure or change any problem we currently have regarding score/pop.

Michelangelo.1742:

There’s no question some worlds are in weird spots (Sanctum of Rall for example)

And it yield us weird match-ups too…

cillard.3986:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

All things being equal, the 40 will much more often than not crush the 20. I mean I know everyone like to think he is incredible and all but… Therefore, numbers not skill, will more often than not dictate the score.

Sure, when it comes to randoms playing against randoms. However, 20 do and regularly wipe double their numbers when they outplay or out command their opponents.

From my stand point, I would start with 1pt per kill, 1pt per stomp, and half the PPT from holding objectives…. then adjust from there.

Yes, yes, it does happen and don’t we like it when it does. However, if we remain focused on the statistical probabilities all thing being equals (that mean of equal skills too) and look at the big picture and not only at the cute anecdotes we are so fond of, superior numbers will yield a superior score.

This change in paradigm will have easily foreseeable consequences (some less easily seen too). I’m not against kill making points but fights results are rarely mirroring the initial odds. If you have 1 v 2 odds at start the result is very often not the winning side loosing half it’s forces. It is almost all dead on the loosing side with maybe one dead and some downs that couldn’t be doubled on the winning side. It’s often an all or nothing result in the end and so would the score…

Kodiak.3281:

styx.7294:

I don’t think PPK does that. I think the only thing PPK does is feed egos (because we’re always better than the guys we’re fighting and I’m sure if PPK was in place we’d win).

But, egos aside, what if that was the factual scenario happening? Are you saying you shouldn’t let the server that was better and won more of their fights let that be a contributing factor (not the only factor) towards winning?

If numbers and the coverage were equal over all? Sure. The problem is they are not by a long shot 95% of the time and ‘better’ score would still not mean ‘better players’ but better numbers and coverage granting you more often than not favorably unfair fights, therefore better score and kill ratio.

In that kind of system, if you play competitively you would be a total kitten to get out of spawn if the outnumber buff appear. At the very least you would not be helping your team unless you are a perma stealth cancer that can pick all his fights and bail if things get too ugly.

cillard.3986:

Synosius.9876:

ppk would definitely favor the server with the larger population. if all your fights have have more ppl you are more likely to win.

While I understand where you are going with this in relation to zergs, your logic is a bit flawed. 20 wiping 40 is going to get twice as many points than 40 wiping 20 would. This will shift more points towards the servers that win more fights (and rightfully so) rather than the servers with more off peak population.

All things being equal, the 40 will much more often than not crush the 20. I mean I know everyone like to think he is incredible and all but… Therefore, numbers not skill, will more often than not dictate the score. Not much will have changed if the pop imbalance and coverage persist.

It might also discourage players to even enter the field of battle if the outnumber buff show itself. It would be stupid for your team to do so…

Jayne.9251:

lol, we had a trapper thief top of SM last night for a loonnng time.

Four of us were getting downed by the poisons and he would remain invisible the entire time.

Then I put a stealth trap down, and patiently waited for his thief-ego to try to gank me.

He died fast.

Poor guy.

That you need to buy and use stealth traps or be powerless is a good indicator of a problem though. This play style is no fun at all save for trolls.

Synosius.9876:

what I mean is that we joined guilds and made friends based on the mechanics of wvw. for example anet takes away the arrow cart and our defense groups disband. now the defense groups are gone the scout network cant justify their time sitting around in towers.

take this a step further, now that structures auto upgrade those tireless souls who walked yaks will go away. I know on my server we had pairs of players who would do this. maybe they will find something else to do together, maybe their friendship was based on necessity.

wvw will still exist after but you might not recognize it.

That is the least we can say…

Synosius.9876:

you just have to accept that the WvW we know and luv is dead and everything becomes alright.

Considering that WvW is what keeps me playing…

lordkrall.7241:

I suppose we are ignoring the arguments that:

1: 2 minutes is a rather short time.
2: Stealth breaks when starting to fight.
3: A bunch of mesmers can already do the more or less the same thing as this, and clearly it haven’t been a major problem yet.

Your point #1 is “ignored” because it’s borderline trolling to pretend such a thing. The game mode already has too much stealth and all they do is add even more and more and more.

Your #2 is irrelevant to the problem it poses.

Your #3 is only making something bad worse. Now it doesn’t require many character working together. It’s available to all and much more potent…

I suggest you start with celestial trinkets and all cantrips. Then as you get more experienced replace a celestial trinket by a zerk one until it feel comfortable enough to remove one more etc. Celestial staff is almost unkillable (you will kill no none though) but zerk staff is quite hard when you fight alone.

You need to always be on the move. A non-moving zerk ele is a dead ele. Learn your combos, exploit your own aoe as relative safe zones for you and try to anticipate where your enemies will go if you can’t pin them down so your aoe tick when they enter the zone.

I have 1967 armor and a tad over 13k life and I do very decently even when alone flipping camps and towers as well as winning significant 1 vs 1. You will loose to other prof of equal skill level but really shine the moment you are with even just one partner and be a god in big fights. Practice will get you there.

I think they should have transfer the might to another trait or skill type to let that might option available. For example, why not improve the ‘inscription’ trait to make it give 3 might when using a glyph instead of 1. Hardly nobody take that trait over the 2 others anyway. It could only help diversity while keeping the old option available. That or improve pyromancer puissance…

Quells.2498:

Two minutes isn’t enough time to do anything substantial.

0_o

Oh, I get it. It was a sarcasm… it was right? RIGHT!?

Oberon Vex.1389:

ITheNormalPerson.9275:

He’s been there since around the start of BWE3.

and yes, it’s hard to tell if it’s their attempt to show that they want to involve ranger more, or a joke about how rangers are currently being played :P

This is something I just don’t get. Longbow is one of our best power-based weapons (and THE best ranged power weapon). I don’t understand why other players ridicule the ranger class for using it. The closest people get is complaining about D/P thieves for the cheese, but it is no where near the stigma of a ranger with a bow. Why don’t we see deriding comments about a different class using an optimal weapon for a certain playstyle?

I had the same reaction. I don’t understand the ranger/LB dislike at all.

I’m depressed… I, I, uh nvm….

The D/D build is far from dead. I’m just sad other builds had to suffer to keep that one in check when it could have been avoided. The traits nerfs were not required at all.

The first step should have been a reduction of the fire condi overall since it is too strong no matter the profession.

The second step should have been a reduction of dagger weapon skills potency in a form or another because it would only affect the culprit rather than all builds regardless.

Then, and only then, after having tried the first 2 steps and realizing it was not enough they could have consider touching the traits.

IDK why they proceeded to what should have been a surgical manipulation on ONE patient with what seems to be a jackhammer all over the hospital.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

I don’t know when does this started, but for the past two weeks I occasionally get stuck on one spot after I dodge. I can still use skills but I can’t move left, right, forward and backward etc. This almost feels like immobilize but I don’t have immobilize status. The only way to break out of that situation is use a movement/teleport skill or use another dodge (which is why I’m certain that I’m not immobilized). Stun breaks and condition cleanses don’t work unless they move me as well. Is anyone else having the same problem?

This still happens to me.

Belorn.2659:

Its fine that ele’s can’t stay as top dps class forever, but it would be nice if eles had other roles we could fall back on in pve. Defiance negates a focus on CC, Aura’s are personal and has minor effects, and healing is not a thing. Maybe if PS warriors didn’t exist then might stacking could be their thing, but as it is we don’t have a trait that give party might without a ICD.

Are you sure you play ele because we have a LOT more than just DPS. A truck load more.

MadRabbit.3179:

Tomiyou.3790:

Actually it is more than just 3 stacks of might, you could get far more than just 3 stacks of might with it (don’t forget it’s passive proc). The thing is that daggers abusive fire application was rightfully nerfed, but longer cd on blinding ashes and less might stacks hurt more than just the D/D ele (looking at you staff ele).

You are correct. I was being hyperbolic.

But…

As a mediocrely average staff elementalist, I disagree with that. But I will temper that disagreement with the fact that it comes from my perspective with my build choices.

In PvP, I use Earth/Water/Arcane almost religiously, so once again, it’s not an issue.

In WvW, I use Air/Water/Arcane, so also, not an issue.

In PvE, where I do run Fire, maybe an issue, but let’s temper that with a pragmatic view of how the current state of PvE works.

In a dungeon or fractal, my usual purpose is to blast fire fields for fury, because there is most likely one or two sources of group might.

If I am playing solo in VW, it could be an issue, but not really. I am not blowing my cantrips in that zone to stack might. I am using them as needed to stay alive. My main source of might is mostly sigils, runes and building stacks in fire from Pyromancer.

Well there are other perspective though. Some of us are playing their staff or scepter/x in all game mode with Fire/Air/Water zerk (marauder in pvp) and that change is going to hurt something not exactly op or ez.

ZDragon.3046:

Its kinda funny that only eles think this change is unfair.

While im sure this hit zerker hard it did hit cele too. The reason it hit cele is because cele was still good damage with much less risk and with the might stacks your damage in power and condition could get kitten close to Mara, or Carrion type damage. While allowing you to be fairly defensive and heal like a boss. Ele was a god any time it ran into 1v1ing another profession. This should never be the case for any profession. Ele is becoming just as it should be for what it can do.

Im gonna be proud to stomp eles who continue to try and bs their way around with d/d come Tuesday. Instead of raging you could go ahead and spend time using other build options >.>.. Vigor uptime should have been nerfed long ago and they said that was happening across the board on all professions who had traits like that. So im sure it just wont be ele.

Actually, what is sad about it is how ppl like you miss the fact most ppl here agree with the nerf on cele d/d. What they have a problem with is what the nerf does to other builds.

ZDragon.3046:

say good buy to those 12 might you use to sustain your damage in tankyer builds
…
……
………..
Gonna have to build a bit more ballsy now i guess. good luck

I agree the trait needs new functionality but cantrips shouldn’t have any offensive ability attached to them. I agree that the might should stay removed but the trait burning fire needs to do something else in its place. Cantrips already have regen and vigor attached to them from water line so….. that should tell you how they were intended to be used defensively.

The only thing I could honestly see the trait attaching to now is glyps maybe…

But then again this trait was super strong for a adept level trait maybe its fine just not having any bonus functionality. Maybe now others will start to use different things in the fire line…… and then just maybe….. in some months we will see it get fixed up with something but for now put some of those cantrips away and prepare to go back to your arcane use.

IMO, saying things like ‘cantrip shouldn’t have any offensive…’ is the root of ele problems since forever. My point is, if other kind of skills were also able to provide ele with what he need to survive, ppl might actually go for them instead of camping cantrips. By giving cantrip some offense and other skills some much needed defense and synergy you would see much greater diversity in builds.

Burning fire was the reason why I felt it was ok for me to let go of arcana. They had finally made the fire line attractive enough that ppl were able to leave consider replacing one of the eternal mandatory line of old. I’m baffled to see any one voicing a problem with ppl finally going for fire after all that time…

I was never playing d/d cele and for me burning fire was letting me play things outside the eternal same old because not only it gave fire one condi cleanse but it was also helping my damage output… Beside, it’s not like getting 3 might per use of a kind of skill is anything new or exclusive to ele. Other profession also have the exact same thing but with other skills (necro and ranger have it on signet for ex)

D/D cele was the problem and they should have stick to things touching just that and nothing else.

I think they could have reduced the might given by burning fire to 2 or even 1 stack but 0 is too harsh really.