Guild Wars 2

Great, more useless advises since many already know them. You gotta love when people continue to pretend the problem is something else than what they are told. But continue to just ignore what others said. All is well, nothing to see here.

AegisFLCL.7623:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Have you read what I’ve said? I ask because your reply here is as if I’ve said nothing.

What I’ve said directly correlates and explains why players may be experiencing such bad loss streaks.

Yes, but what about those who tell you this isn’t what they experiment?

The problem for these other people isn’t that they will be facing teams with higher MMR. They complain about who they are paired with, not who they face.

Loosing to a stronger team when all did what they could and had to is not a problem. Assuming your own mistake is part of the game too. But when you genuinely didn’t make any mistakes other than press compete solo you rightfully feel powerless.

I’m close to give some ppl my account password so they can taste the rainbow themselves and wake-up. I’d be curious to see what they post after a few dozen matches and if they still believe the problem is still in the head of the ppl complaining.

If we are to believe some we could only play with 5-6 spec and that’s it.

AegisFLCL.7623:

antichecker.1675:

AegisFLCL.7623:

gloflop.3510:

snip

I would consider myself as an average player. My current rank does not reflect my abilities!

What is your current rank/tier? If you’re sapphire t3-4, and you state you are an average player, you’re right in the middle of the ladder.

I’m not directing this at you, but so many players are expecting handouts based on how they placed in the previous season; THAT IS AN AWFUL representation of your skill. Players we’re randomly awarded, even 3 pips for losses? How is that even the slightest means of accurate progression. Ranking from the previous season means squat, especially when 50% of the “primordial legend” titled players I see cannot play to save their lives.

You must be blind to the actuall problem or maybe you just ignore it on purpose, because you enjoy to get free wins at the start of the season. Nobody here ever complained that he didn’t reach high tiers, most ppl complained that they lose every game in 100 matches. And myself included. I started out 0 – 20 so I stoped soloq. Played in a team and all of a sudden I win most games and going towars saphire. How is it possible if I am that bad? The problem is that the matchmaking system is plain kittened, not matching teams of equal strengths. Why even have an mmr if you dont use it. MMR was never designed just to match a team of same strength. It has it’s origins in chess to rank players AGAINST each other and depending on the difference how much each one can win or lose. Now I know that team games are a more complex issue than 1 vs 1 games. I even go that far to acuse GW2 to match stronger teams against weaker ones on purpose, so the better ones can advance faster, in thinking that the weak ones will even it out when the strong ones are out of reach. This will just not work out and will only lead to people stop playing.
And this is the reason why the current system is broken and really bad compared to any other game with a ranked team competitive part.

People like you refuse to see how the system this season is supposed to work; we do need some form of preseason though.

The Season lasts approximately 2 months, and we are currently in the 2nd week which is barely a third of the way through. A team with higher MMR will get matched against a team with lower MMR NO MATTER WHAT. Eventually the team with higher MMR will move clear of the other team/players pip range and will no longer be matched against one another. The longer the season goes on the more spread out players will be, and lower tier/rank players will eventually progress to their approximate skill level.

I’ve had two blow-out matches throughout my 20 or so ruby games. As I’ve progressed, every game has gotten harder/closer even if it’s solo vs premade, games remain close. Game’s I lose or that other’s lose are almost always due to the reason’s in my original post. While the majority blame the system, few try to change how they play and or make constructive feedback.

This is a competitive ladder, do not expect handouts. And I apologize if player’s are only here for the backpack, but that has nothing to do with the system and everything to do with the players.

Have you read what I’ve said? I ask because your reply here is as if I’ve said nothing.

Soul.9280:

Now this is the right way to deal with a problem! Rather than complain, or blame others, or ask the devs to make changes, he’s taking the initiative to organize other players to take charge of their own destiny. My hat is off to you sir!

You have to let ppl know there is a problem otherwise nobody would lift a finger to do anything. Beside, the dev have to know if we want something to be done about it. There is a difference between complaining and pointing possibly disturbing facts.

Also doesn’t help when you have to fight all the naysayers who want to continue believing there is no problem but in ppl’s head.

Will contact you for sure.

Crimson Shi.5047:

@Sirbeaumerdier.3740 I have suffered losses, if you seen my posts I even ranted about it. There were even some matches were I would say to myself … “ah… why did I do that, that was my fault” Yes you are just 1 cog in the machine of 5 cogs in total. Yes I can understand it’s hard to carry. Definitely been in matches were I just looked to the sky, and begged Dwayna save me. But all in all I just I don’t know, I don’t see it. I mean I know the experience is different from person to person. But in my experience I had to help recover a mistake my allies made. In return I had allies who help to recover my mistakes, and in the end we pulled it off. You will get matches like that. It just the breaks of the game.

By the same token it just doesn’t sit well either to go around saying “I am amazing” or “I can 1v1 any of you” or “I know I am better then the people around me that I don’t belong here” Maybe you are, and maybe you don’t but sometimes you gotta just go that extra step. Take a break and try again, que later maybe so you won’t get the same team? Try again tomorrow, it will still be here to frustrate you. :p Make friends, and form a team. Switch classes when necessary…blah blah I am sure you all know this.

Point being if you really want it, all you can do is keep trying, it will probably suck, it will infuriate you to your soul, you will scream colorful metaphors at your screen. But in the end it just depends on how bad you want it. Or ….. quit.

Might be the time of the day I play and the risky builds I tried before I learned how the system worked or something but there is no end to this in my case now (well, I broke my streak and even got another winning streak but the baddies are back… and even when you babysit them you can’t overcome someone who just don’t read or care).

I can continue to try like I do but my fear is that I’m now marked for life and any SOLOQ with this algorithm will continue to think my place is among these guys the next season and the next etc. So the more it goes the less likely I’m going to get out of this.

I already have what is hard to get for the back piece so it is not what make me sad. I love to play pvp and knowing you are likely kittened before you even start is not very comforting i my problem… Doubly so when you are rated individually based on a random collections of teams. GG if that collection was good for some, but for the rest it can sux…

Quozex.9430:

I agree with Crimson kittenhat it feels like the MM system is working as intended. The leagues are not perfect as they desperately need a placement system to move players into their proper division faster. Yet I also find that almost everyone complaining about the MM system immediately writes themselves off as above average or godly players who can make no mistake and that all their other teammates are the problem and MM is to blame. As OP states there are the vocal minority who might have some “bad luck” with the MM system. Even then most of the half decent players are at least in saph/ruby by now and it shouldn’t be that much of a struggle to get a few wins out.

If you have been paying any attention the problem is not that the system work too slowly. It’s that it can trap you below where you actually belong or make you surf past where you belong. It base itself on an individual rating that actually is the result of multiple team where your contribution was around 20% of the victory or defeat.

The premise that some of you defend that make it impossible for people to loose DESPITE themselves being a great asset is utter crap. I’m not asking for you to believe me that I’m better than the player I had the last 15 matches in my team it is an obvious fact even my opponents have pmed me about in some instance.

My friends know what I’m worth in pvp. There is no overrating of myself when I say that. I don’t say i’m god. I say I’m far better than what you condemn me to play with and not surprisingly I continue to loose DESPITE doing a great job (possibly a better job than you would if you were stuck in my shoes).

In other words, YOU, ANY of YOU including ESL players (and I’m rdy to bet a week of my salary on it) would more than likely also fail despite all your great skill because you are just 1 person.

I’m also troubled by that call to minority some of you make to try and minimize the problem when in fact you have no more basis than any others as to who is the minority. So can we please stop with this double standard? The point is there is an issue some have pointed out. The numbers are irrelevant one way or another. What matter is the legitimacy of the problem put before you.

Then again the intention of this post was to not turn into another kitten about the MM system. It was a productive post to help some people maybe spot what other teammates are doing and possibly giving them tips as to how to improve, or how themselves can improve.

Honestly no matter how perfect you think you may play, there is always room for improvement. This post is helpful, maybe not to all the MM kitteners, but to anyone else just getting into pvp who want to improve.

What is insulting to me about this thread is it is assuming we don’t already know all of this possibly better than you. The problem people address here is not the one you insist on.

Stop making straw men and say people pretend to be better than they are otherwise they wouldn’t be stuck where they are bla-bla. We got your POV on this the first bazillion times and your arguments are just not cutting it at all. They are in fact just oil on the fire because not good and seemingly ignore the fact provided by those you seek to oppose.

velmeister.4187:

AegisFLCL.7623:

First off this is a serious post!

In the end, I believe a lot of these reasons are why so many players are stuck where they are. Yes there may be a small handful of players stuck due to unfortunate events, but just because you’re a skilled 1v1 player, it doesn’t mean a thing if you can’t support your team and make an attempt to actively do all of the things I’ve mentioned above.

I actually agree to most of what you have said. But, I also believe the system is flawed. You can use this kind of system in a qualifying season to create a bracket of players and to weed out the bad by giving them chance to improve by playing unranked during a league season with some benefits to progress towards their achievements in their own pace.

In an ideal world, a world where theory-crafting is the law, it’s a great system on paper. My achievements are my own. If I am bothered with who else is also achieving other than me, I need to set my priorities straight. This system has alienated a LOT of people from sPvP. There are a lot of people that I personally know who will not even try playing this game mode again. To some, that’s good news. To ANET, is that really good news?

How is your achievements ever your own in a team setting? They are never going to be yours only. Each members of your team own more to the team than the team own to them.

Crimson Shi.5047:

Not sure to the posters in here but I solo qued to Ruby working my way to Diamond. I have a second account making their way to Ruby. So imo the MMR is working as intended.

Oh, great. Another I’m fine so everything has to work just fine! Cigarette doesn’t give cancer since I smoked all my life and I never got cancer!

I think ppl acknowledged this system could prove no problem and even beneficial for a portion of the population already. My question to you now is, how is your case representative of all others?

BrotherBelial.3094:

Kayberz.5346:

EXACTLY. alot of the people complaining fall into one or multiple of these categories.
They dont play to win
Whether its the “pro 1v1er who doesnt understand rotating” , the “im pro at playing warrior/ theif and can compete just fine with them”, or the “we lost mid fight, i give up, team sucks” players, theres always SOMETHING they are doing to cause their poor win rate that they refuse to acknowledge.
The matchmaking isnt perfect, but its definitely not as “rigged” as these mob mentality whiners want to believe

So you know how everyone is playing? Are you god? There is not always something they are doing to cause a loss. There are 4 other people on the team. One person can not win the game alone. If someone was bad, they could not coat the game if the other 4 where that good. It comes down to how well the classes mix and how well the people playing them know said class. I’ve been on teams where the whole team seems to be of one mind and just know where to go and where to be. Other times even if there is a conversation about what we are going to do as a team, you can’t guarantee that everyone has listened and is not going to do just what they want.

All of what the OP has said is being filed under kitten I all ready know.

I’ve had a few like him in my teams… very annoying. It’s always about the individual. It HAS to be. Never mind the math saying you are but 20% of the equation…

AegisFLCL.7623:

First off this is a serious post and I’m not trying to belittle anyone or tell them they’re trash. I’ve seen all the threads over the past two weeks and I think the issue is a little less prominent than you believe it to be, namely because it’s the same 30 or 40 people posting/creating new threads over and over.

The small portion of data that Salamander collected was actually pretty useful too. 50% of players reported being in the 50th percentile area of the ladder, which sounds accurate…

To get to the point though, for those players wanting to improve there are definitely some questions I want to stress that you ask yourself:

- Do you multi class?

If you do not, or cannot efficiently, grinding through leagues with one class is not going to work. Period!

As I’ve progressed through Ruby this season, I’ve noticed that almost every match is won due to swapping to counter a team comp. If we are not bringing the right tools to the job, why should we expect to win.

- Do you/can you rotate?

Again, if you cannot rotate, you will always lose to a premade because of coordination. Premades are 100% beatable, you must first bring the proper classes, traits, utilities, and rotate to be able to counter them.

I’ve played against multiple 5/4man premades as well as a few ESL teams and won due to the reasons above; heck they’ve been super stressful and or annoying due to some wicked strong team comps, but it is very possible. My win rate remains around 70% for this season (62% in ranked over all time).

- Do you peel?

Quite simple, teammates will often get pressured, rather than trying to focus someone take the time to peel for that player it can pay off big time when the enemy team no longer has a single offensive cd.

- Do you swap traits/runes/sigils?

Again this is very similar to the first question, but will often be a key reason as to why you will lose if you don’t. Normally most teams will have coordinated teams as of late put their focus into heavy flat damage + cc, or heavy aoe/condis + cc. Most classes have a way to alleviate both types of pressure through trait, rune, and sigil combinations. If you refuse to take the time to make adjustments it’s going to hurt your play as well as your teammates.

- Do you rage at players and waste time/possible comebacks by typing half the match?

Simply don’t do it, it’d be wasting everyone’s time. Sure we don’t always get the best teammates but there is really no point that will come of berating other players.

- Do you complain about premades and then don’t put in the effort to queue with one or two more players?

Solo Q isn’t coming back, at the very least in this season. Please put some time and effort into befriending a good teammate or enemy you may see in a game. It really isn’t that hard and as everyone likes to mention, it automatically makes you win games (100% no true). Create a post looking for teammates, be proactive!

In the end, I believe a lot of these reasons are why so many players are stuck where they are. Yes there may be a small handful of players stuck due to unfortunate events, but just because you’re a skilled 1v1 player, it doesn’t mean a thing if you can’t support your team and make an attempt to actively do all of the things I’ve mentioned above.

Ok, where do I start…

You first try to minimize the problem with the number of people complaining and then proceed to talk about that small sample of players who participate to something not even far from scientific to conclude it was helpful as in significant?

But let’s have some fun, I do use all professions and adapt if need be. I can play very well 2 of them and decently 3-4 more.

I totally know how and when to rotate since a long time now ty very much for asking.

Peeling and focusing is great and all but if you are alone to try and do it it’s going to be hard…

Did it happened that I have raged? Yes. But I honestly dare anybody to avoid boiling after some of the horror I’ve been witnessing. We are humans and we have limits. Of course when you surf on a beautiful beach where all is sunny more than not raging won’t come as often… Try being stuck for 10+ matches with ppl who are clearly not of your level… I want to film you.

Now for the real issue, SOLOQ. I fully understand that this is intended as a team mode and as such you are incredibly disadvantaged if you are not in a premade. Sadly, not everyone has the same opportunities due to a plethora of factors. Why do you think I still inflict myself with soloq? It’s that or I don’t play 99% of the time is why because I just happen to play when others are not available including the friends I’ve made and added me because they thought I was an asset to them capable of carrying more than my weight.

The only real problem in this system IS soloq. For it to work like it want to it, sadly, should force ppl to present a team of 5 just as raid force you to be 10. Why? Because the soloq system really is a Russian roulette system and ppl who have thousands of hours and are clearly quite good can end-up with a lower rating than someone brand new to the game. In other words, you will be fed new players all the time and not surprisingly loose more… How can anyone think a new player can be of a higher MMR than someone with thousands of matches is just beyond the power of words to describe.

My concern now is, will this carry on to the next season to? If so I might permanently stop playing ranked in soloq as my rating might now be too damaged. This mean you are marked for life pvp-wise.

If ppl want to do a tournament they should make it like it’s supposed to be with team signing in for the comp with winners advancing until a winner is determined and give the guys a prize. Somehow this system is a pseudo comp that isn’t one. Measuring teams and allocating individual rating to players even when the team was never the same. This is profoundly kitten.

I know, I know! Introduce pvp tactivators that your guild will need to unlock after months of pve grind that will let you call down airships to defend the lord if you need it!

Running away fast before I get lynched…

It’s impressive how even this level of obvious sarcasm is lost on so many…

selling MMR reset boosters? I’m sure you would sell ton of it. Just saying…

Jak Shadow.2864:

This sums it up for me

5.5 k games and in top 10% in ladder where based on MMR.

Struck a losing streak from day 1 on main account. Played a few on my son’s account (which I play to get him Tomes to lvl up for PvP) and had a better success rate cos I won the coin toss.

I have tried to persevere on main account but increasingly hard to do so. Swapped to my son’s account and didn’t realise that (as he does being he wasn’t on top of the meta and found I was a druid with shortbow (no idea of ant of those skills) and no others. Still managed to win the game and contribute despite have no clue as to the class.

Just as well my MMR put me with “good” people.

Joke system where I could no more than press 1 and still do ok. I really do despair.

This pretty much mirror my story too. To those who have get to the upper level faster and easier just enjoy it instead of belittling ppl stuck in these quicksands.

Kayberz.5346:

Beliyal.7085:

Kayberz.5346:

Its a competitive ladder system , actual GOOD players are progressing just fine, every good player i know has had no trouble at all getting to at least ruby division, everyone else ive seen complaining have been the players who claim to be “average” , “not the best, but still decent”, and “did decent enough last season” (despite last season being a complete joke where low mmr players only had to face other low mmr players)

I guess we’ll simply have to agree to disagree. You didn’t see what’s happening to actual decent players, so it probably sounds as ridiculous “whining.” Season 1, to me, was difficult but manageable when you learn and put some effort. Season 2 is a literal gamble. And it was all decided in the first few matches of the season. If you were lucky at first, your standing wasn’t ruined and you progress normally. For a large player base, this wasn’t the case. It’s not a difficult concept to understand.

Everyone thinks they are entitled to a high division, no one seems to want to admit that they are a emerald/sapphire caliber player, yet if the system is working correctly a MAJORITY of players SHOULD be there.

No one is complaining because they think they are entitled to a high division. Most of the people complaining I’ve seen have said that they’d be fine with Sapphire, me included. I’ve been in Emerald tier 1 for three days and this season Emerald tiers have 4 pips, unlike Season 1 where they had 5 and I progressed 1 tier per day (or half a tier if the day went badly). I don’t consider myself an awesome player, but I’m not so bad to be unable to leave first tier Emerald. As was evident today when I teamed up with a good team. We passed the tier in 3 matches. Because we’re good enough to pass Emerald and shouldn’t be struggling for 3 days in the first tier. Is this entitled? Are we entitled to think that we don’t deserve to be teamed up with people who literally don’t understand how the map works? I’m harsh towards my skill and consider it to be mediocre, but I know not to screw up the match by going to Tranquility three times when it’s not the time for Tranquility. How did that person end up in Emerald? Such good matchmaking. We have those people in the same division with actually decent average players who are trying to advance.

Also, I don’t find Emerald to be bad. I’m fine here, but I believe progress should have been made in the past three days. I was literally stuck in tier 1 (where I don’t belong, along with many other players) instead of slowly advancing. I feel I should have been somewhere towards the end of Emerald by now, considering my individual results, my effort and the fact that each tier has less pips than before.

Lastly, I’m not in this for the reward track, the Legendary backpack or whatever the hell is the reward. Many people have said the same. Why do people continue to decide in our name what we want and accuse us for stuff that no one said is beyond me.

You dont care about the back piece? Then stop playing ranked and play unranked, problem solved

Did I say I do not care? I already have what I need for it. It’s only a matter of time now.

My problem was never about the back piece or whatever reward. My problem was always how some ppl like to make stats say what they don’t and how they would ridicule any of the legitimate claims made by ppl less lucky then them instead of just enjoying the fruit of their efforts and also their good fortune. Yes, blaspheme, I said good fortune. You never control everything in life. Too often not even close to the majority of the variables in the equation.

Believe me, I too wish those who are good at what they love get some legit recognition. Not because I think I’m THAT good but because I can relate to that desire. My problem is we aren’t there yet as there is a vice in the current system if you have soloq and or used riskier builds and paid for your audacity. You might end-up in a bad spot and actually be quite good. Just acknowledging that would have saved you so much whining you have no idea.

Beliyal.7085:

Kayberz.5346:

Its a competitive ladder system , actual GOOD players are progressing just fine, every good player i know has had no trouble at all getting to at least ruby division, everyone else ive seen complaining have been the players who claim to be “average” , “not the best, but still decent”, and “did decent enough last season” (despite last season being a complete joke where low mmr players only had to face other low mmr players)

I guess we’ll simply have to agree to disagree. You didn’t see what’s happening to actual decent players, so it probably sounds as ridiculous “whining.” Season 1, to me, was difficult but manageable when you learn and put some effort. Season 2 is a literal gamble. And it was all decided in the first few matches of the season. If you were lucky at first, your standing wasn’t ruined and you progress normally. For a large player base, this wasn’t the case. It’s not a difficult concept to understand.

Everyone thinks they are entitled to a high division, no one seems to want to admit that they are a emerald/sapphire caliber player, yet if the system is working correctly a MAJORITY of players SHOULD be there.

No one is complaining because they think they are entitled to a high division. Most of the people complaining I’ve seen have said that they’d be fine with Sapphire, me included. I’ve been in Emerald tier 1 for three days and this season Emerald tiers have 4 pips, unlike Season 1 where they had 5 and I progressed 1 tier per day (or half a tier if the day went badly). I don’t consider myself an awesome player, but I’m not so bad to be unable to leave first tier Emerald. As was evident today when I teamed up with a good team. We passed the tier in 3 matches. Because we’re good enough to pass Emerald and shouldn’t be struggling for 3 days in the first tier. Is this entitled? Are we entitled to think that we don’t deserve to be teamed up with people who literally don’t understand how the map works? I’m harsh towards my skill and consider it to be mediocre, but I know not to screw up the match by going to Tranquility three times when it’s not the time for Tranquility. How did that person end up in Emerald? Such good matchmaking. We have those people in the same division with actually decent average players who are trying to advance.

Also, I don’t find Emerald to be bad. I’m fine here, but I believe progress should have been made in the past three days. I was literally stuck in tier 1 (where I don’t belong, along with many other players) instead of slowly advancing. I feel I should have been somewhere towards the end of Emerald by now, considering my individual results, my effort and the fact that each tier has less pips than before.

Lastly, I’m not in this for the reward track, the Legendary backpack or whatever the hell is the reward. Many people have said the same. Why do people continue to decide in our name what we want and accuse us for stuff that no one said is beyond me.

I think this is what gets me the most from that kind of ppl and not just in the game but in life in general. They are so convinced others only want handouts and have no honor and no pride. They apparently can’t be like them because otherwise all their world would crumble on top of them and actually have to face a very different reality.

If only they could just show some empathy and acknowledge others legitimate burdens all the whining it the world would suddenly evaporate (a big chunk of it anyway). But, no, they have to try and crush others to feel superior and justified. They speak of others entitlements but are often the ones who are all about it when they feel threaten in their belief.

Kayberz.5346:

Its a competitive ladder system , actual GOOD players are progressing just fine, every good player i know has had no trouble at all getting to at least ruby division, everyone else ive seen complaining have been the players who claim to be “average” , “not the best, but still decent”, and “did decent enough last season” (despite last season being a complete joke where low mmr players only had to face other low mmr players)
Everyone thinks they are entitled to a high division, no one seems to want to admit that they are a emerald/sapphire caliber player, yet if the system is working correctly a MAJORITY of players SHOULD be there.
Using last season to gauge where you should be now doesnt work, because 1. Last season had the WORST matchmaking and was a complete gamble and 2. We arent even half way done with the season yet.
Entitled people love to find other entitled people and join hands in a “gimmie gimmie” mob mentality, kind of like unions.

So if we are ruby and up will you believe it if with say something or you will still keep your climato-skeptic stance?

Kayberz.5346:

Same cyclical argument over and over, “i dont care about what division im in”, “all i care about is even matches”, “were not complaining about not getting a higher division, we just want competitive matches”, its all BULLkitten excuses, the reason your complaining is because you want a higher division, period

If all you REALLY care about is even 50/50 matches, PLAY UNRANKED, otherwise your just making bullkitten excuses to distract from your real intentions, to “get yours”

You wouldn’t, per chance, also happen to be a climato-skeptic?

Duke Nukem.6783:

do you not balance?

It is still a thing because stomping is very hard to achieve otherwise. But I do not see the problem with it to be honest considering the cost of doing so.

Zepher.7803:

Love the New maps, make a list of people who embrace change and learn from it and then have fun!

Couldn’t just say you love the new map? Why imply something you have no idea of?

SqualZell.7813:

Shylock.4653:

Salamander.2504:

Leagues are not a reward track. Not everyone is entitled to progress.

This

But if it’s not a REWARD track why is there a REWARD at the end?

It is a good thing to make something not everyone can reach. Like I said before, as far as I’m concerned the problem isn’t there.

I can totally live with people just being way better than me at something. However, I want something I deserve for good or bad.

Lexander.4579:

MirrorOfNature.4279:

Lexander.4579:

yes i like the new matchmaking i can literally feel how good players like me rise easily to the top while bads who whine about matchmaking and necromancers stay 2 dvisions below us

Good players? Do you have any idea how many terrible players are being carried right now to top divisions, just because they abused and tanked their MMR last season? Now the system consider them good and because of that they ride the win streak wave and think themselves some pvp gods. To be honest if they were that good like you said, they would not want to be carried artifficially by a fundamentally broken system. They would want competitive games, where they can show their skill and emerge from a game with the knowledge that they ACTUALLY earned it and fought hard for it. The fact that the so called “pros” – (and yes the "" is intensional) were completely alright with cleaving through groups of new players a long the way tells me they are way less skilled then they make themselves to be.

The fact that you come here and straight away claim you are a good player, because ‘good players like you EASILY rise to the top ranks.’ is enough to know you are in fact a bad player caught in a lucky win streak. Any system that privilages a certain group of people, while ignoring the rest is not a good system, but its a flawed system.
The only way this system would ever be fair and balanced is if Anet finally open their eyes and remove MMR all together from ranked and league MM. The system must only consider pip range and division standing when calculates a MM.

During this first week, since the league started I lost count how many times I’ve seen some “pro” claiming the system is good, because it carries easily the “good” players through the rank. How is that a good system? And how are those a good players if they need to be held by the hand and carried? Skilled players are supposed to be skilled, right? Why then the so-called pro players are so afraid of facing even matches from the start of the league? Why do they need a system to carry them to the -supposed- high division they belong to. Yes this is the words of most of this supposed skilled players. That they belong in a highest division. Then PROVE IT. Dont have a broken system carry you, but prove that you belong in high division, by facing equally skilled players, not a completely new one. Too afraid of the rude awakening that maybe you are not so good after all? Of course you are, because its such a better ego booster to cleave through hordes of new players and think yourself the best players in the world.

No matter what you believe or like, the system is flawed, its being proven to be flawed, and thats the rude awakening, which you and the others like you will face very soon, when you hit the lose streaks or the 1-2 hours long queues. Enjoy your “amazing” season!

thats quite a large post you’ve got there so ill only focus on its fundamental moment: opposite to the claims you made in your post there are actually very few players who say that the system is good, as it should be, since good players who are the minority are rewarded by the system and bad players which are the large and vocal majority are being encouraged to become better, but instead of improving they are complaining all over the forum and HotM map chat about losing

A troll detected, move along…

Warcry.1596:

http://imgur.com/0aE7iNx

Been like this for 15 games now.

Yes it’s Stronghold, it’s my preferred mode.

I too can show images of my winning streaks… but what is your point?

Ragion.2831:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

What you say is true but not seeing a systemic problem is almost as bad a troll to tell you the truth. The problem of this system is how you are paired with people when you go solo.

In his case, if his friend his of relative equal strength to him I imagine it can be frustrating and puzzling to witness the result he gets.

However, people who only care about the legendary and otherwise never pvp are a pain in my side this season. I wish they had their own special league…

“In his case if his friend is of relative equal strength?” Well you can’t say that now can you? How exactly do you know they have the same skill level? Another question, how do you know for sure it is the system that causes losing streaks?

A couple other factors go into losing streaks:

Are you or anyone else on the team making an average or less than average contribution to the team or are you a legitimate threat on whatever point you are on and are you interfering with their caps. If you are just average then chances are that you will lose a few times in a row because maybe there is someone on the other that is an absolute force.

Are you or people on your team having a bad day? Sometimes you might be a great player but you are just not feeling it or you are playing with people in that position. This is actually a thing especially in a game where you are constantly required to play at your absolute best.

Let’s be honest a second here. If you play enough pvp/wvw roaming with others you have a pretty good idea of how good you are relative to them.

It is also the same in a match when you can instantly tell which players have enough pvp experience or not. Or when they can or not clearly carry their weight.

More importantly, you are a team. You represent 20% of that entity and therefore, all things being equal, 20% of it’s success or failure. Yet, you inherit 100% of the burden or the boon of the victory in the form of the TEAM MMR. That MMR is actually not really your MMR. Its the team.

If you fall under a certain threshold for a reason or another you will get, all things being equal, a worse team than you previously had meaning you will have to carry even more on your shoulder to break out of the death spiral.

The idea that a player with 5k+ hours on his profession and thousands of pvp matches get to be paired with someone with f2p or the like as if they were equal is ludicrous. Sometimes you just happen to play at a bad time and the available pool of players is your doom. A bad luck you might pay for a very long time. There is absolutely no questions a lot of the people I had on my teams were FAR below my skill both in profession mastery and pvp 101 (what to go for, rotation, etc.).

I had loosing streaks I could eventually break out of and, suddenly, I got partners that didn’t need to be babysit and ended up winning 20 matches in a row only for the day after to try my luck beyond what I should have and get 7-8 lost matches, 2 wins and then more losses. 95% of the time I can easily say that it’s the ppl I get that make all the difference. It is obvious when you do not need to say anything and when you have to beg ppl to do or not to do something very stupid or important..

You also have the example of the people that pvp on 2 accounts and have spectacularly different experiences in how difficult their road are. If they are supposed to be the main problem then how is it they don’t get a similar experience? The system and how it pair you with others will pampered you or doomed you. If you have it easy it will get easier. If you had it hard too often it will be a long road.

I’ve seen both sides of the medal so far and from my POV the system does play a big role in how hard or easy you surf the wave. You better be well placed when the wave comes for you or be prepared to hold your breath a long time.

Cynz.9437:

I think tempest are ok actually. You need to run supporty amy and lose a lot of dmg for it.

Now scrapper on the other hand is really broken: you run marauder and still being way too tanky while dishing out more dmg than thief.

Agree 100%. Anything this tanky on marauder is just plain bad.

The meta tempest is no problem for any decent necro and you can’t really say these are a rare sight atm.

Soul.9280:

Only registered and stable teams should participate.

Really? Do you realize that soloq people account for the vast majority of people playing ranked? So if Anet were to follow your advice it would be GG because the size of the population left playing ranked would be too small to be viable.

Individual skill does matter in this system, and part of the skill being measured is your ability to figure out how best to fit in with the team mates that you have for that match. People who are good at adapting will win more games on average than those who aren’t, and hence will have a higher MMR.

I do realize that. I’m not asking for this to happen btw. All I’m saying is that if you want that system to really work it is how it should be. If you don’t care about it working then just ignore what I said.

grayskull.2367:

SO i was under the impression Anet was trying to move away from this crap Bunker style meta! I guess not nothing has changed.

play a Elementalist or Engineer and you to can carry your entire team such fun.

Say META scrapper and META tempest plz. Stop including me and the build I want to play in your grotesque generalizations. So tired of being lumped with all the other tempest despite being parsecs away from their level of unkillable…

BrotherBelial.3094:

Not really. Having randomly bad team comp vs a better one is a problem, individual skill, this is a team game, the game matching low MMR teams vs High MMR teams. There is no “You belong where you are”. The people who think this are missing the whole.point of the league. And if people are where they should be after a week. Good Job ANet. You have made a league that is lasting a month longer than is needed. Everyone might as well stop playing.

You, IMO, hit the nail on the head here. For some weird reasons players want this team achievement to be an individual recognition. It’s THEM that are the reason for their success or their failure not their TEAM even though they are only 1 out of 5 (meaning all things being equal 80% of the success or failure isn’t theirs) and have little control over whom they face (and in the case of soloq who they are paired with).

EDIT: I would also add that this individual thinking in a team setting is largely responsible for the season’s problem. We are sorted out based on an individual rating that is actually the result of a team rating. To work there should not be soloq as it utterly destroy the model viability. Only registered and stable teams should participate. Otherwise where you end up has not that much to do with you and how good you are.

Ragion.2831:

Honestly i thought this type of post was just people trolling but apparently not. Why are people blaming their losses on the system? Its not like everyone just pushes a button and gets a score.

Don’t you think it is kinda silly to say that your friend won so you should win too?

Even before this system people would lose 6 times in a row then win the next 9. So unless you just started playing PvP or are constantly getting matched againt a team of mostly diamond level players or something (which you wont even be able to tell since this is the second season), your complaint makes no sense.

What you say is true but not seeing a systemic problem is almost as bad a troll to tell you the truth. The problem of this system is how you are paired with people when you go solo.

In his case, if his friend his of relative equal strength to him I imagine it can be frustrating and puzzling to witness the result he gets.

However, people who only care about the legendary and otherwise never pvp are a pain in my side this season. I wish they had their own special league…

Salamander.2504:

SqualZell.7813:

ok time for an unbiased statement

It doesn’t matter if you think the system is good or is bad or just don’t care. from what I am seeing on the forums and in game map chats there are more players disgruntled with the new system than players who think it’s fine.

Obviously the top players who got to the top where they should be are happy about it. lets take an arbitrary number of about 10%

Players that are not as good are stuck somewhere in the middle unable to advance. being stuck at some level unable to advance be it because your team mates are bad or simply because you are not up to par to go forth, there is no progression in this case.
lets take an arbitrary number of about 20%

and then you have the rest of the population, who is just not good, at least not on par with the game difficulty. these people will never leave amber no matter how much they try. again no progression.
lets take an arbitrary number of about 70%

so now you have the elite 10% that will be having fun and progressing. then you have the middle class who does not progress anymore… some will work and move up eventually. others will just quit. and then you have the base that will slowly bleed players.

in the end all you have is your 10% +-5% from the middle playing pvp… the rest will move on. either quit pvp all together (lets be serious, they won’t go back to unranked) or simply quit the game.

either way you are alienating a big chunk of your paying customers… who will not pay anymore. your 10%-15% of your elite will have long queues and be matched against each other just on rotation. and eventually those will also move on… with such bad press from a huge chunk of the GW2 community people won’t want to PvP thus you wont be able to replenish your pool of pvp players…

TL:DR.
doesn’t matter if the system is good or bad. You depend on your playerbase. It is in your best interest to keep the majority happy and paying.

Leagues are not a reward track. Not everyone is entitled to progress.

I don’t think the problem is ppl wanting a reward track so much as being rewarded as they believe they DESERVE. Somewhere deep down there something on the level of justice that bothers ppl being victim of a system (any given system) while, not surprisingly, the successful aren’t seeing it that way at all or even as a problem…

Like many said when it was first announced. The last thing WvW needed was more stealth and getting closer to EoTM…

lighter.2708:

JTGuevara.9018:

Salamander.2504:

If you’re a good player, but “not the best”, Ruby seems to fit. It sounds like you’ve come close to your appropriate league position, at least as a solo-queuer. That’s good news! (Leagues are not a reward track.)

This is codeword for, “Your trapped in an MMR hole and there’s no way to get out, Sorry!”

if you are good enough, you can actually carry your team to victory and get higher MMR, it’s a proven fact by many top players already..if you feel trapped you are simply not good enough..it gets harder and harder to carry as you climb the ladder..that’s how it works..most good players get out of the low division quick so their teammate or enemy are good players..

This sound like another American dreamer that need to wake up fast. No individual can carry an entire team despite his teammate. This isn’t a Hollywood movie.

I actually had a harder time in amber than after so the logic of difficulty increasing with rank to me was not quite obvious at all. What was very obvious was the quality of players I was paired with (sometimes also against but honestly the difference was really mostly my team) that made the difference between a 15 match winning streak or a 5 match loosing one.

Also, you have enough players with double accounts that have drastically different gaming exp on both accounts despite being the same person… If the player doesn’t change but the experience does you are kinda forced to admit that the difference in ease of win doesn’t lies with the player.

style.6173:

In solo queue, stop using thief. 95% of thieves are completely worthless and starting a game 4v5 isn’t fun.

How about stop soloquing if you can’t accept the consequences of having no control over who is playing with you?

I no longer answer to people asking me what kind of ele, ranger, necro etc. I am because ppl seldom have a good reaction when I tell them the truth even if I’m on a winning streak with that build.

The problem isn’t people who play what they want, it’s ppl forgetting nobody forced them to push the compete button alone.

Peazomanco.7259:

I think if WvW gives better rewards it would be filled of leechers and useless player filling slots that could be used by people who really enjoy the massive pvp.

This was always how I saw it too. Poor reward always appeared to be a good protections from farmers and ppl not really into the game mode. Still I got Dawn into that game mode out of a player corpse so I can’t really complain…

Ocean.1364:

Please give one pip to player in loser team with top score. The players will try much harder to win or change score.

Thx for consideration

Nonononononono. If score was a good indicator I’d agree but it’s not. You will more than likely encourage quintuple capping and BS point farming play rather than strategic decision making for the TEAM, not jujst your ego.

Warlord.9074:

It’s about randomly putting players on your team that need to get carried in order to average out your teams total MMR. Don’t tell me that it’s not how it works because I know when someone on my team has 0 points they obviously don’t belong on my team.

Points don’t matter but when you have 0 points that means something it means that person did literally nothing when they were not AFK.

Again, be careful with the interpretation. It is genuinely possible to score 0 and be the mvp of the match. It is very rare I agree but do not use the score to judge of that, use what you witness.

Fluffball.8307:

Resetting MMR isn’t the solution though, then you have people on their first game playing on the same team as pro leaguers. It takes forever to sort out because people are getting carried hard, and everyone is miserable because for most of us, your teammates are almost guaranteed to be significantly worse than you are.

The way it is, you progress based on your own merit and we don’t have to deal with newbies.

That is not a nice thing to say to me considering half the team I get are barely sentient PvPwise.

I win a bit more than I loose this season while playing with my marauder staff ele and I know when I deserve to loose because I’ve been playing bad (or because I play a relatively risky build against team that play zero risk builds therefore sometime not being as good an asset) and when I have to carry people who will seemingly do all they can to make us fail including not playing at all while not being dc (3 matches I had this and yes, I did report).

Telling me I deserve to loose when I was literally carrying my team, or was carried, is just not really coherent with my perception of ‘merit’. The fact of the matter is, I’ve lost matches I deserved to win based on my performance and matches I deserved to loose but that I didn’t.

This is a good deal of what can be frustrating when you engage in solo pvp. You often do not get what you feel you deserve.

On the plus side, they took the suggestion of awarding 1 pip per victory and remove 1 pip per loss.

If 1 = best and 4 worst…

1. Rate the maps in regards to EXPLORATION:
Verdant Brink 1
Auric Basin 3
Tangled Depths 2
Dragon’s Stand 4

2. Rate the maps in regards to MAP META mechanic
Verdant Brink 1
Auric Basin 2
Tangled Depths 4
Dragon’s Stand 3

3. Rate the maps in regards to REWARDS (unique zone rewards)
Verdant Brink 4
Auric Basin 3
Tangled Depths 2
Dragon’s Stand 1

4. Rate the maps in regards to STORY (both personal story and event story)
Verdant Brink 3
Auric Basin 2
Tangled Depths 4
Dragon’s Stand 1

5. Rate the maps in regards to VISUALS (map design, best view)
Verdant Brink 2
Auric Basin 1
Tangled Depths 3
Dragon’s Stand 4

6. Rate the maps in regards to MAP CURRENCY acquisition method
Verdant Brink 2
Auric Basin 1
Tangled Depths 4
Dragon’s Stand 3

7. Rate the maps in regards to ENEMY DESIGN (mechanics AND visuals)
Verdant Brink 2
Auric Basin 3
Tangled Depths 1
Dragon’s Stand 4

8. Rate the maps in regards to Overall FAVORITE
Verdant Brink 1
Auric Basin 3
Tangled Depths 2
Dragon’s Stand 4

I get the sarcasm but I question the legitimacy.

Dawdler.8521:

Stand The Wall.6987:

I do think we can make this work by increasing the accessibility to stab across all professions. More access is more stacks. I think this increased stab stack count could counteract the cc spam while keeping the game play risky enough to be considered “skilled”.

I can understand the need for a simple rebalance, the problem is that you cant balance a stack system with more stacks. Doing this would only make stab OP in small scale and sPvP.

Image a 1v1 scenario with 5s stability.

With 10 stacks, you need to CC him 10 times over 5s. Pretty much impossible without abusing some very specific skills on specific classes (which is unfair). Yes the player will stand up a while vs a zerg, but a solo player will struggle. If the zerg is big, those 10 stacks are gone in an instant. Should it be 15 stacks? 20 stacks? Impossible to break small scale and equally impossible to know how many stacks you “need” or how long it last. 1v5, 1v10, 1v50, the requirement changes.

With 2 stacks and a 1s icd instead, the scenario change. Suddenly a single player has the capability to break the stability before 5s has passed if he use a mere 2 cc skills with 1s apart. Thats doable on any class, often with a single skill if an enemy is careless and keep running through it (previously mentioned unfair skills really should be fixed…). Against a zerg, the scenario is changed as well to something a player can easily comprehend. You got at least 2s of CC immunity even if they recklessly throw down 50 cc skills.

In both scenarios a specific counter would still work, boon rip. But thats pretty much the gist of why slapping on more stacks dont work. Its the same as power creep.

I’m not sure I’m following where you go with this idea that more stacks would screw small scale.

Before stacks, no matter the amount of cc it would not affect you for the whole duration. No matter how huge a number of stacks you have to go through it would still be far less than infinite no? So how could more stacks make stab more OP in small scale than it was before since infinity is, after all, pretty hard to beat? I’m probably just not understanding what you want to express.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Which Guild Wars 2 PvP is lacking entirely. Skill based combat, there is no longer proper punishment for mistakes, there is no longer a risk/reward anymore, only reward and any risk is just punished.

So much this. ^

Ouch… again…

sirloin.9145:

warrior is still in a bad state. If gunflame is getting nerfd look in to classes like dh, druid, scrapper and rev aswell. Condi also overall. Speci to be on par with old builds to get a bigger spec option. Main war since launch, still preform better on rev (3weeks playtime) same gear. But ye still no fan of gunflame, think the old builds are way more fun to play but weak as hell. But since anet have decided to do speci stronger, gunflame needs to hit for a stupid amount.

There is a difference between a skill and the profession in itself. Nobody want to see war get nerfed overall. However, gunflame is clearly way too good a skill when we compare it to any other and what you sacrifice vs what you get in return.

That skill is not alone to be guilty but it’s probably the worse of it’s kind (one button kill property).

Miko.4158:

Let me check if I’m frontline… ooh yes I am. good stuff was worried there for a bit.
There are balance updates . BALANCE. so no good whinging I got hit with xyz and listing out the attributes. It needs perspective. this thread is trolling.

But that’s the point… it is not balanced.

AnniMira.2506:

We don’t play WvW for rewards. Ask any who plays WvW for hours per day.

Indeed. If reward and loot was what matter I’d be in silverwaste.

Caedmon.6798:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Caedmon.6798:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Caedmon.6798:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Caedmon.6798:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Caedmon.6798:

Offair.2563:

Do the rats display the right animation now like any other race, or does it still look like they stand still and BANG headshotted?

Like every class has such telegraphic skills able to read? Warr is easy to read Besides gunflame..It’s our only non high telegraphic skill.We used to had a killshot…Kneel down.. LOOK AT MEEE,now im gonna shoot…ready to evade ? Here i go ! The change to gunflame was awesome,learn how to deal with it.Ive been fighting kittenloads of gunflames myself,sometimes im lucky,sometimes im not,kitten happens.

Uh… I run full zerk ele and I don’t have that one shot button you seem to think we are entitled to have when we run that glassy.

Beside, for the third time, how easy is it to see that animation among the usual chaos of wvw? You guys saying dodge it are just ridiculous. Duh, of course I’d dodge it if I saw it and I had the endurance for at that moment.

Now, again, of course I learned to live with these lame builds all around and accept the fact I live a very dangerous life. However, let’s not pretend there is nothing wrong about that kind of damage.

Eh you still have sustain and blocks and invulns and regen on that ele which a warri doesnt have.You people have NO kittening clue,really.NONE.You also forget that a warri able to do such hits is BUILD for it,meaning he has dropped defense line completely and is a wet kittening noodle and open to every condi spamm aswell.But qq more please.

Uh, I do have all 9 professions at lvl 80 mind you so I do have a clue. For once, It would be nice if ppl stop think of a profession as all the same no matter the spec. It’s just ridiculous. You have an abysmal difference between the cheese spec you saw in pvp for so long and a backline speck in wvw. You are unkillable in celestial gear but drop dead instantly when look at in zerk.

Yes, ele has exceptional sustain but tell me how it’s useful when you drop dead instantly without any clue among the chaos of battle? You ain’t bouncing back from a one shot button. Try one shotting even the glassiest war? It’s impossible.

Beside, AFAIK, warrior has longer (possibly more frequent too) and better invul (you can attack when endure pain is on, while you can do jack kitten while on mist form). You also have at least just as many block available. You are absolutely certain to have the chance to hit any ‘oh, kitten’ button you have on your bar and some have it on auto.

I’m not saying war is OP. It’s not at the moment. However, I call major BS on anyone telling me a glass war is just as glassy as it’s ele counter part.

Well,first of all,i was not talking about zerg fights.I do not enjoy them anymore…Its 1500 range aoe bombing with 50 lines of warding and reflect in between ando no pushes going on unless 1 guy happens to get caught in the aoe spam.Its a snoozefest for me,i was merely talking about roaming only,where i can still see enough hard counters going on.

In small scale fights gunflame won’t be anywhere as problematic because the chaos of battle won’t be as intense and it will be easier to tell when use. For some builds it will still be very hard to overcome even one on one tho.

That being said, what is the logic and fun behind the insane damage you get from that skill? You do not sacrifice more than a lot of other build out there for your damage and yet you have a lot more punch than any in return and with better range. That it can be unblockable, has an aoe and has no need to be channeled only add salt to the injury.

War is not OP but that skill has clear issue. To be fair, other skills share the guilt. This one simply is the worst of its kind and, more importantly, on topic.

Yeah it’s chaotic in zerg fights,but doesn’t that count for every other class in those fights aswell ? ABout the sacrificing part trust me,we Have to sacrifice defense line in order to make this damage,which means..No condi cleanse or stabi util trait,no dogged march,no adren hp regen,no endure pain trait..That’s a a Huge loss to our sustain.Also needing to go full zerk ( which means 19k hp and around 2.3 – 2.5k toughness ) with our only sustain being healsig + endure pain trait basically means,we dont have any sustain at all.Also the skill is Only unblockable if people build it..Signet of might is a utility which grants 6 sec of unblockable when used..that means they have to give up sig of fury,balanced stance Or endure pain util.Otherwise it means they only use the sig of precision trait which grants unblockable when a foe reaches 50%.Trust me,we dont have it all…Make a warr and try to make it happen,youl see the issues.We have to sacrfice Alot to make this work.

The chaos is the same for all but the effect of such a chaos will be a lot more important when you have 1 shot button options.

Beside, no matter how much I sacrifice on an ele it is impossible to achieve 1 button, 1 kill. And it’s the same for most other profession. You guys can and it’s not that costly all things being equal.

It is very costly though to make this worthwile,it takes practice to learn how to counter it,go into a pvp arena ( i can even borrow you a free private one ) and try to fight one 1on1,learn his stuff and counter it.To be honest,i run gunflame myself not so often,it’s gimmicky and the no sustain part kills it for me when fighting 1vx..There are stronger builds around that people seem to miss.

Oh, I’m sure you sacrifice a lot to get it cranked up at that level. The point remains that:

1) You can, we can’t. And that no matter how WE sacrifice.
2) You need to do 12-13k to kill me on my usual wvw build. Many time I’ve been hit for substantially more than that which mean you could have played less offensively and still killed my kind comfortably.

I agree there are stronger and more cheesier builds out there. But that isn’t what is the problem. We only address one skill, not a build.