Guild Wars 2

Khezekiah Bellamy.5016:

Everyone still thinks you are supposed to maintain complete reign over their homeborder and as such people are complaining how they want to be able to have waypoints in all the keeps regardless of who owns it.
It seems people can’t handle adapting to the superior play-style of fighting over a 3rd of each map and pushing objectives near your 3rd of the zone.
If for example you are on blue team and goto the Red Desert Borderland, you should capture and maintain the keep and tower nearest spawn then work toward the next closest towers either pushing into the bottom green corner or pushing into the top red section.

Inability to adapt to change has little to do with it for me. I wanted to like the new maps but I do not. They promote a game play I do not enjoy. I always played the ppt but what was really fun were the confrontations whether big or small.

Solo roaming in the new maps has been rather disappointing for me (granted lack of ppl also roaming like me really doesn’t help) and I really never liked any mechanics that help avoid fights like they added on all maps (why more stealth?!! WHY!!?).

Also, the map design they seemingly recuperated from EoTM that apparently make it impossible to go anywhere in a straight line kittenes me off to no end. As the asuras in DS say these days ‘everything is so close, yet so far’. The map is bigger, but a lot less free to move in and make me beg for my glider to enjoy (even if I do understand why they can’t permit gliders in a game with walls).

I didn’t had any chance to participate in any wvw beta otherwise I would have immediately tell them that going more and more toward an EoTM map design was a VERY bad move for a lot of players that enjoy confrontations. Maybe they thought, since guild halls were now introduced, that those like me that like fights would retreat into them and thus leave the wvw map for more pve/karma train/farm oriented players… IDK…

I tried and wanted to like it, but I just do not. It is as simple as that.

Tiger Ashante.1792:

You want me to jump into that for some AP? Are u crazy? There’s at least 50 mobs in there and most of them are Veterans, who’s insane mind tought of this? Geez Anet, you must really hate us, is all i can say.

It is actually not that hard to pull of btw… just pull a few at a time and you will kill them all no problem.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

It is irrelevant to address the past the way you do since ANET has address key issues since.

As for the event being difficult there is nothing wrong about it. No, you can not simply AFK button mash your way to the chest like the Shatterer but that isn’t a bad thing at all.

In HOT ‘hard’ doesn’t only mean opponents with bigger stats. It means you have to learn some key elements first and adapt.

How many week-end pug maps did I saw where many would just be AFK, never wp or just ignoring map chat? This is something that make the event fail that is on the players fault.

Again can you PLS take back the face of elitists?

AFK button? I got into the map 30MINS-1HOUR before the event, they had ALREADY STARTED prepare and organize the map, yet we STILL FAIL most of the time. It took me THE ENTIRE MORNING to try and I was too tired so I needed to take a nap thus missed the only successful run.

Seriously, WHY DID YOU SAY OTHERS ARE NOT LEARNING WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT THEY HAD DONE? Have. you. even. tried. this. map? If it wasn’t organized people won’t even do the event.

HOW are you going to let pugs learn? How are you going to know did they learn or not when you get in? HOW are you gonna do when they didn’t? CAN you kick them? NO, you have almost 0 power to control open world meta progress.

THIS, THIS, THIS is why Open World Meta shouldn’t be too hard. This isn’t the only dumb thing ANET has done in HoT. Remember the level 4 mastery for story and 400 HP for Elite Spec? The TD Meta is another one.

BTW I hate elitists.

At this point I think you are just blindly lashing out since you haven’t paid attention to the point I share at all.

I didn’t said none were learning. I said I could see a lot of ppl NOT way pointing when dead DESPITE being told before and after constantly. I saw many ppl asking questions that were continuously addressed in map chat despite having been with us the whole time. I also saw many ppl just not moving at all when the gerent appears or when using a wp myself. And let’s not talk about gear that we beg all constantly to be as much DPS as possible. When you have too many ppl behaving like that it amount to a fail is what I say.

Before the fix, I was agreeing entirely with you btw.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Why do you insist on arguing on the past when a recent patch made a lot of past fails now irrelevant?

Fixed a bug that sometimes caused the spores in the Nuhoch lane to not respawn during the chak gerent meta-event.

Start comparing success rate since above fix. Before that fix I had 1 pug success (my only success at that time mind you) out of 30+ try. Since last week it is very different.

Because the past is there, it’s not our fault to cause the bug. Even with the bug, people know the mech from those attempts. It’s not brand new.

Even after the patch like many people said here, the success rate with pugs are still < 50%, way < for quite a few of them. I’ve tried 4 times yesterday, SUNDAY and the 3/4 tries have failed. 2/4 weren’t even close.

It is irrelevant to address the past the way you do since ANET has address key issues since.

As for the event being difficult there is nothing wrong about it. No, you can not simply AFK button mash your way to the chest like the Shatterer but that isn’t a bad thing at all.

In HOT ‘hard’ doesn’t only mean opponents with bigger stats. It means you have to learn some key elements first and adapt.

How many week-end pug maps did I saw where many would just be AFK, never wp or just ignoring map chat? This is something that make the event fail that is on the players fault.

So, let me get this straight…

You want to fly to avoid all hard content and the first map is too hard for you… I hope it’s not too late for a refund.

BTW, I’m apparently in the minority who love TD.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s been less than a week since they fixed Nuhoch and improved the rewards. It’ll take time to get people to try the meta again and teach them how to do it. It’s really no different than how AB was as it took time before people in general got comfortable enough to beat it consistently.

It has come out for more than a month. People were keep trying it before the fix, the mech aren’t new, yet none of you here have a >50% success rate. And how is the bug our fault?

AB? AB was already a >80% win as long as it’s organized at this point.

Why do you insist on arguing on the past when a recent patch made a lot of past fails now irrelevant?

Fixed a bug that sometimes caused the spores in the Nuhoch lane to not respawn during the chak gerent meta-event.

Start comparing success rate since above fix. Before that fix I had 1 pug success (my only success at that time mind you) out of 30+ try. Since last week it is very different.

Ayrilana.1396:

Slowpokeking.8720:

Anyone? Anyone here had tried at least 8-10 times with pugs and got >50% sucess rate?? Anyone?

“I ran with a pug and we made it nicely!”

But that’s not all what they had experienced!

Yeah. these fix are what make me agree with OP. Before THAT I would definitely not agree at all since winning was not only a matter of doing good and learning the mechanic.

“But most of the times(>50%, way > for most of them,) we got owned.”

It’s been less than a week since they fixed Nuhoch and improved the rewards. It’ll take time to get people to try the meta again and teach them how to do it. It’s really no different than how AB was as it took time before people in general got comfortable enough to beat it consistently.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

It is impossible to control everything in such a content. However, if the event doesn’t have faulty mechanics, that pretty much doom you when they kick in no matter what, it does let more space to individual players to matter and feel it is THEIR fault if they failed or succeed rather than weird programming issues.

I’ve been in several successful pugs now and can see a big difference with how things were at first were a pug map was a sure fail map.

How many pugs have you been in and how is your success rate since HoT? Tell us.

I’d say 4-5.

Althought assaulting Mordy from the dream was a great idea, and far better idea than Zaithan horrible non-fight for us, the way we manage to defeat a being so powerful and so much more experienced than us is, shall we say, convenient. It was just unbelievable to win like this was my problem.

Maybe they should have used the chak since they thrive on magical energy. Infecting Modremoth’s dream with Chak or something like that would have made his defeat much more believable.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Right now the event is perfect. Before the update it clearly was not as it had major issues over which you had little control­.

I love ubber hard content that takes dedication as long as I get enough control over my progress toward success. When a scaling issue ruin everything despite all your efforts (you can’t control others) it is a problem.

How are you going to control your progress in open world map?

It is impossible to control everything in such a content. However, if the event doesn’t have faulty mechanics, that pretty much doom you when they kick in no matter what, it does let more space to individual players to matter and feel it is THEIR fault if they failed or succeed rather than weird programming issues.

I’ve been in several successful pugs now and can see a big difference with how things were at first were a pug map was a sure fail map.

Wow… and here I am thinking we have way too many way points to make this world feel as big as it actually is.

Right now the event is perfect. Before the update it clearly was not as it had major issues over which you had little control­.

I love ubber hard content that takes dedication as long as I get enough control over my progress toward success. When a scaling issue ruin everything despite all your efforts (you can’t control others) it is a problem.

Tiger Ashante.1792:

Since launch, GW2 prided itself as having one of the best, if not the best community of any MMO and rightly so. Always friendly, helpful and more than willing to assist those in need, at least this has been my experience and i’ve always done the same. I’ve lost count how many times i’ve died trying to help others.

But HoT has changed all that. Right now in HoT, i see fewer and fewer ppl willing to stop and rez others, or answer a call for help to kill that rabid champ on steroids and its hordes for that HP or w/ever else and it’s getting worse by the day. Even 2 weeks after HoT released, i noticed a decline in those willing to help others, eventhough they all know, these HP’s can’t be soloed. I’ve been in situations where i’ve spent an hour or two asking for assistance with a HP while trying to do events, especially in TD and DS and not one person would reply or come to help, even though i know there’s lots of people in the map.

Despite many difficulties, including my ridiculously high ping, I’ve almost completed DS, just need 1 HP. This last HP i need is guarded by the Spider Queen and is only accessible during the 15 min timer after the successful DS meta and i’ve been trying to get it for days now. Most times when i log in there, the map is deserted. I’d ask in map chat if anyone was there, but no one replies. I’ve had to resort to LFG and on an odd occasion I’ve managed to get a taxi into a good map and got most of the stuff done, except this one HP.

Finally today, i managed to get to it and it’s the most crazy set up I’ve ever seen. It’s like this HP was created by some lunatic goofball frankly. Not only is it gated behind a successful meta and being timed, but it’s very hard to get the Lay Line updraft that starts off the ground and virtually no place to launch from and open ur kite. But once u do get up there, u r in a small area full of spiders, many of them vets and finally the Champ Queen.

I was there alone on my necro, so i summoned my minions thinking they would take attention off me while I commune, but the spiders completely ignored them and just kept on me. The HP is situated on this small rock pillar and whenever i tried to commune, they all rushed at me and each of their hits would interrupt my commune. So i tried to kite them away, but it was no good, they seem to be programmed to stick to the player and i couldn’t shake them off no matter what i did.

I knew the map was populated, we just finished the dragon event and i could still see a few commander badges around the map and while running for my life, i somehow managed to type in map chat asking for help. No one replied, so i repeated the message, pleading for help as i was running out of time, but no one responded. In the end, the spiders overwhelmed me and killed me and i saw this HP slipping away.

Eventually, a lone thief came (thank you whoever u are) and tried to rez me, but i could see he wasn’t going to make it, so i told him no to die as well. He apologized for not being able to help, there was just too many mobs. It was pointless anyway, even if he managed to rez me, 2 of us couldn’t deal with the 30-40 mobs running rampant around the HP, so he left me there. Then with barely 1 minute left, another thief came and actually got me rezzed (i was already partially rezzed by the first thief so it was faster and many thanks to you too) and that very instant, the map reset and i was killed off again and spat to the beginning of the map.

You know Anet? You’ve destroyed my enjoyment of this expansion, but I’m determined to get that last HP one way or another (to get some value for my money and to have at least one char with 100% maguma) and then i’ll never go back to those places again, let alone try map completion on my alts. It’s just not worth the frustration. And just so you know, exploration is my favorite thing in this game. Prior to HoT, I had 9 characters with 100% world completion and they all did it when WvW was part of it. I had every intention of doing the same in HoT but no thanks. I’ve had enough.

That spider queen HP is ridiculous in so many ways. One lone thief coming to help me in a map full of people? While needing 15-20 at least, is what makes this content utterly ridiculous. Not to mention, having that 15 min timer after dragon dies to get it done when u loose at least 5 minutes just getting to the boss chest. What made u think that weeks/moths after HoT release, one would be able to gather 15-20 willing ppl required to kill those mobs and get that HP? It’s barely 6 weeks in and you can’t get the help needed, let alone in months to come. So why should i really even bother bringing my alts through there? The meta events are just like any other for me, tons of blues and greens and an odd rare. All that stress for what? Where is the fun in this?

What I see has happened here, locusts who purchased HoT have already rushed through in the first couple of weeks after launch, got their map completions done with a zerg and all they care about now, its their lootz. Since everything in GW2 is on timers, people don’t want to waste theirs helping others so much anymore. And so, those of us like me, who took their time to actually try and explore the jungle and appreciate all your amazing artistry, well good luck to them in completing these maps.

It’s a real shame and I truly hope you will make map completion in HoT a viable thing not just for now, but future players as well.

If it can be useful to you, the spider queen HP in DS requires no mastery at all. Jump shot, ride the lightning, ancestral grace etc. is all you need. Btw, I’m always glad to help if not in the middle of something.

Nekomi.9562:

Notsoperky.2348:

Having to create a fresh instance in order to get a meta completed kinda defeats the object of the meta event. It’s bad design.

Until people actually sit up, an learn to do things for themselves TD will continue to fail for most while others succeed. I find the GW2 community very lazy honestly >.>

I’d argeu to say that TTT is still ahrder than most content so far (Well unless they nerfed it since release xD)

Nah, TT doesn’t ask for any specific gear to succeed. It ask for coordination and numbers. The gear requirement is a BIG problem in an open world that casual find hard. How many on the map think zerker in HOT is suicide? No wonder we lack the required DPS.

Personally, I think raid is easier and infinitely less frustrating. Why? Because you have control over all the variables that matters and only have to work with 10 ppl and when it fails you can immediately retry. Getting 10 ppl to gear like you want together on voice com is no big feat. Try getting 80 that aren’t in your guild to do so…

The META difficulty doesn’t lie in killing the gerent. In itself it isn’t rocket science to do. We always could dps enough to kill in 2 phases if we had enough dps oriented ppl. The real challenge was always to organize a legion of pug in knowledge, attitude, coordination and in gear. Doing that with a guild is infinitely easier. The problem is it’s supposed to be an open world content not a guild instance.

Nekomi.9562:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Thanks for the run btw NEKP even if I crashed when the event started… I didn’t crashed once in weeks but I HAD to at that precise moment… curse my luck…

Still TY for what you did.

Were you able to get back in at least?
:V

Not before it ended sadly.

Thanks for the run btw NEKP even if I crashed when the event started… I didn’t crashed once in weeks but I HAD to at that precise moment… curse my luck…

Still TY for what you did.

JVJD.4912:

How do i tell ppl in the map who don’t want or not interested in doing the meta to go kitten off?

You can’t. You can do your best to have them on your side and do as Neko here who will come with a full squad of 40+ in map to land in a new instance but if you have passive-aggressive people you have to live with it.

BTW. NEKO I did pm you in game (Celestia Manastorm) and the only thing you could answer me to my question was either nothing or was “MEOW”… Have you changed your mind about your invitation or I’m missing something here?

I simply overload into a cluster of raptor and they explode. You have to move all the time while attacking with AOE and they are no problem at all.

Nekomi.9562:

Ohoni.6057:

The problem with succeeding at the TD meta is not knowing what to do, it’s about finding your way to a map that has 100-odd other players who also know what to do.

If you do not sit down and “put up” with people who do not know what to do how will anyone ever learn? This is pretty much the kind of attitude that makes TD so challenging.

You go in with the attitude of…

“Wow you don’t know how to do this event? Get the kittened out”

We go in to help people finish their collections and also learn That lane specifically be it SCAR, RATA or OGRE. Nuhoch is normally left to the experienced players.

To be fair, I did put up a lot with ppl but too often it was in vain. I was often taking a lot of time explaining all to anyone who would care to listen only to realize that even simple things like ‘if you are dead, please WP’ were completely ignored despite having explained why it is important to do so.

Sure, if you go into the instance with a squad of 40 all at once it will help a lot but that you have to do this is clearly the sign of a problem for an open world content.

But I’ll add you to my friend list to make it easy to contact you and I’ll ask you for a spot if it’s ok with you. I’ve tried this event over 30 times without success (many attempts almost made it tho) and it was not because of lack of knowledge or the patience to put up with others. I’m human too, and at some point feeling you have so little power over your success is going to be very frustrating.

Nekomi.9562:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Nekomi.9562:

Well honestly I have never seen the problem aside from when we say something like…

“Hey guys, if you could either relog to let people in or come join us for the TD META that would be fantastic.” rather than coming in an forcing people out and shoving things down their throat.

The events been out for a month now? People should know at least one lane by now.
Nuhoch = Stomp spores kill sporelings run 30 seconds before next phase.
Scar = level up thumper an honestly you don’t even need the rifles unless you’re a low dps class.
Ogre = You smash as many eggs as possible and kill the chak
Rata is something something golem or bug it by luring him into the lasers (cheap)

We try to ask people to bring their best gear (exotic is fine) PTV is fine so long as you’re not say running with nomads an stuff like that.

I’ve seen it VERY often that we would get completely ignored even when being super nice and open. Many simply do not care at all is what I can see. Some will even tag up for HP and refuse to move no matter what. Humans will be humans. The problem of that meta is that it required something we can’t really control. We can maximize and hope for the state we want but that is it.

I’ve defeated all gerents several times but never all 4 at the same time despite knowing perfectly what to do and when to do with perfect gear. I can only control so much…

If you’re NA you’re welcome to join us for tomorrows run 2 hours before reset (setup)
We deal with those kinds of people all the time but people know we always succeed regardless so most people just come cause I know what you mean.

“Oh we loooooooooooooooove you! can you help or let others in?”

“Nah! go fihruiferuif YOURSELVES think you can come in here TAKING OVER!?”

Lol

I’ll take your invite for sure. See you tomorrow hoping I won’t hit a full server.

Nekomi.9562:

Well honestly I have never seen the problem aside from when we say something like…

“Hey guys, if you could either relog to let people in or come join us for the TD META that would be fantastic.” rather than coming in an forcing people out and shoving things down their throat.

The events been out for a month now? People should know at least one lane by now.
Nuhoch = Stomp spores kill sporelings run 30 seconds before next phase.
Scar = level up thumper an honestly you don’t even need the rifles unless you’re a low dps class.
Ogre = You smash as many eggs as possible and kill the chak
Rata is something something golem or bug it by luring him into the lasers (cheap)

We try to ask people to bring their best gear (exotic is fine) PTV is fine so long as you’re not say running with nomads an stuff like that.

I’ve seen it VERY often that we would get completely ignored even when being super nice and open. Many simply do not care at all is what I can see. Some will even tag up for HP and refuse to move no matter what. Humans will be humans. The problem of that meta is that it required something we can’t really control. We can maximize and hope for the state we want but that is it.

I’ve defeated all gerents several times but never all 4 at the same time despite knowing perfectly what to do and when to do with perfect gear. I can only control so much…

Nekomi.9562:

OVERVIEW

Alright everyone.
Deadly Cuddles here and all that fancy jazz.

You might know me from the…
Twisted Marionette
Scarlet’s Invasion or more commonly known for
EOTM ktrains for uplevels against HK and also more specifically
Tangled Depths META.

Over the past few weeks I’ve been idly scrolling through a lot of people complaining and whining about TD META being so kittened in the sense that you have to wait 2 hours for a 15 minute event that can fail in pretty much 2 minutes from the very beginning…

MISINFORMATION
I have heard a lot of misinformation due to Youtubers/Streamers and even the community. (No offense and such)

Let me start off by saying that this is pretty much the same as RAIDs in regards to that you need a specific amount of DPS and SUPPORT classes. You will NOT win with 30 Chronomancers at range with greatswords (Example)

If you HAVE a strong burst DPS class like a PS zerk/burnzerk or even a dragonhunter, revenant, zerk tempest/reaper (spamming gravedigger) you should you should really re-roll that class in place of your current class unless you are experienced in just that class you play.

These classes would be highly preferred as majority rather than having 1-3 of each and than say having 30 engineers running slickshoes (please no…)

STRATEGY

The misinformation that I was previously speaking of is mostly regarding the fact that so many people are saying… “Oh we need 15 people on every single lane no more no less!”
or
“No more than 20 on Nuhoch lane!”

I would like to clear things up by showing you a video guide (with some tired bleh voice over) regarding the issues people have with Nuhoch lane and especially the other lanes near the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQXFbde-cR4

as you can see with the video, we run every single run with the following…

SCAR LANE 18-20.
RATA NOVUS LANE 18-20.
OGRE LANE 20-21.
NUHOCH LANE EXACTLY 24 experienced players ONLY.

Nuhoch needs 2 people on every shroom (A shroom buddy) minus the south side shrooms which should have 3 people rotating and 4 people dedicated to killing the Chak army heading towards the cannon.

People may argue and say “Waaaaaah! 24 people will upscale the event! Wah!” we get constant phase 2 kills every single run (give or take phase 2 5%) so I don’t see them putting up much of a valid argument here in that regard.

The reason we push so hard to get a PHASE 2 kill is due to the fact that PHASE 3 bugs
A LOT.

BUGS

I briefly explained in the video that there is a 50/50 chance that even if you are all in position and you have all been stomping and killing from the very beginning, there is always a very close call due to the spores no-longer spawning or taking 20 seconds to respawn when the timer is at 0:02 and 95-99% spores released.

Phase 2 you may have noticed that I tried to pull the Chak further out from the lane, this is due to another bug where if you fight the Chak in the poison and end up killing him while the spore poison debuff is up, you would immediately receive a permanent 10 stack of it and have no way of surviving just endless people reviving you never allowing you to die.

I’ve spoken to one of the Nuhoch lane devs that helped create the mechanics, told him my view on it, the bugs and this was weeks ago, there have been no changes made or any fixes so… I don’t think they seem to care lol

TL;DR

Don’t overscale.
SCAR LANE 18-20.
RATA NOVUS LANE 18-20.
OGRE LANE 20-21.
NUHOCH LANE EXACTLY 24 experienced players ONLY.

Get as many DPS classes as possible and NO-CC and you should have no problems with this META…

And now the 1 million $ question is: How in hell are you supposed to manage that kind of control?

Even in maps almost exclusively populated by ONE guild you always have random pugs passing by that will add themselves with their PTV gear and upscale it all no matter how much you repeated to not do that. It’s not a raid where you have a say on who participate and who do not. It’s an open world content… GL getting precisely 24 in Nuhoch with DPS gear that all know what to do and will wp if dead… and the same apply to all lanes…

Stilk.6312:

Hey guys,

Before you read about my point of view, it’s important for me to present myself. I have around 3k+ hours in WvW now, mostly as a guard where i go by Enns. I was in some PvD guilds, that played for the points, and GvG guilds that played to be the top EU guild and suceeded in doing so.
Now let me define my definition of a True WvW Player.
A True WvW Player will love fights.
A True WvW player thinks objectives of capturing and defending are cool because they give fights another environement, another scenery.
A True WvW Player hates things that give a ridiculous advantage to the ennemy, like arrowcarts or cannons.
A True WvW Player doesn’t care about winning a Matchup, he cares about winning his fights.
A True WvW Player wants to get rewards by beating big amounts of players, not keep lords.
A True WvW Player wants to have fun.

Ok…

Your definition of a “true” WvW player is definitely not going to make consensus.

I share this with you:

A True WvW Player will love fights.
A True WvW player thinks objectives of capturing and defending are cool because they give fights another environement, another scenery.
A True WvW Player wants to have fun.

I don’t agree at all with:

A True WvW Player hates things that give a ridiculous advantage to the ennemy, like arrowcarts or cannons.

Why do I disagree on this point? Because sieges are not unfair when they are accessible to both side in equal measure all other things being equal.

Beside, sieges are actually what very often let a far lesser force not be steamrolled. How many timed did we saved a keep or tower vs impossible odds BECAUSE of acs or a well placed ballista, cata or treb? The only siege weapon I ever had a problem with was the golem (the omega one more precisely).

A True WvW Player doesn’t care about winning a Matchup, he cares about winning his fights.

So let me get this straight. You have a metric used to decide who wins and you don’t care about it but you are the “true” WvW player? I hope you aren’t in a sports team telling this to your coach. A “real” hockey player that doesn’t care about scoring goal is not going to be taken very seriously… maybe hockey isn’t for you after all is what I would say…

A True WvW Player wants to get rewards by beating big amounts of players, not keep lords.

I do not so much disagree with this one as I simply do not see it as relevant at all. For me the game IS the reward. If it is fun I will play it no matter how poor the drops are. A drop is a drop. For me a “true” WvW player is not a farmer so he isn’t in it for the loot first. I even think poor loot is what has been protecting the game mode from a lot of bad apples if you ask me.

TexZero.7910:

The people complaining about navigating the maps confuse me. It’s almost like they put no time into learning it. It’s a straight forward map, there’s nothing complex about it. Each camp has a waypoint, Each lane has a Wallow to and from said camp. Simple.

The Meta itself however is plagued with a few issues, scaling, timing, and counter-intuitive combat being the 3 biggest issues.

The Nuhoch lane scaling is extremely poorly designed there’s no middle ground once you hit 9 people elites spawn which take far too long to take down with that number. However once you do get above 9 there’s not enough mushroom spores to stomp out, even including getting the refresh on killing the mushroom mobs that spawn.

Scar Lane is a prime example of counter intuitive combat. Your defense event would be acceptable if the stun did more than trigger Gerent to go into his next combat loop animation. Instead the group is punished, and breaking the bar doesn’t even get the exposed debuff to allow for more damage to be dealt.

If that wasn’t enough, the no CC strat excludes players from properly using their skills. Eliminating a vast number of viable combat options.

Not sure who designed this Meta, but those 3 issues desperately need to be looked at as they are the problem with the entire encounter.

Agree about all of what you said.

The map is not THAT confusing to navigate at all and it become just as easy as any others when you eventually know your wallows. Each lane as a wallows that is connected to it’s line so when you die, and you were to, say, SCAR lane, go back to SCAR encampment and take the wallow back to your line. It’s not rocket science really…

And yes, I also think there is something wrong with how the event scale. It is absolutely not normal to finish a line at stage 2 of the event and run to another lane to help with the consequence of making it impossible. It should be an advantage to receive help not a hindrance.

Raven.1524:

I personally enjoy and like this map. The issue, might be on the final meta, which isn’t so hard to complete if only the ppl knew the mechanics.
So I was wondering, would it be better if we had like 10-20 mins to organize the map before the last attack and/or make the event pop every 1 hour inatead of 2?
Since most of the failures came from the lack of practice of every player on the map.
And please…. have the decency to port to a waypoint when you are fully dead on any map.

I also like the map and think your suggestion have merit. And the ppl never waypointing are a plague on this game.

Excludee.3850:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I think it has more to do with farming competing with event. People who farm do so because it’s a better source of XP. The problem is, if too many think in that way it screw the meta-event for the rest of us. If they just give events more XP they shorten the time required to get mastery. So if they don’t want that, they have to nerf what compete the meta-event: the spiders being one thing.

Yes. Think of the meta events guys. That’s why they made sure not to put the entrance to the raid in Verdant Brink.

…oh wait

Sight

Did you just, like, read 2 posts above you? The one where I said the entrance to the raid being in VB was a mistake?

Zok.4956:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I think it has more to do with farming competing with event. People who farm do so because it’s a better source of XP. The problem is, if too many think in that way it screw the meta-event for the rest of us. If they just give events more XP they shorten the time required to get mastery. So if they don’t want that, they have to nerf what compete the meta-event: the spiders being one thing.

If A-Net wanted that, they should not put the raid-entrance in Verdant Brink, because now a lot of people are standing in front of it, waiting until their raid starts.

I also happen to think they should put the raid on a separate server for the exact same reason they did Obsidian sanctum initially within WvW. It was the same problem with people not participating to the war efforts that could get problematic when the numbers of people in the puzzle was high and the server had a queue.

Gwyllion Redsky.5241:

is there a new post from you anywhere ? there are no ppl on the map now whatsoever, all are afk and waiting to get in the raid… just gotta love how hilarious your claims are now , the 5/ 8 ppl ruining the meta event but as long as the spider farm was nerfed …

You gotta love logical fallacies.

Kraggy.4169:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

. Regardless of actual numbers, it is a very bad thing that the most rewarding thing (XPwise) lies outside the meta-event.

Why?

Because:

1) The meta-event REQUIRES lots of ppl.
2) Any given server has a pop limit.

Therefore, if you have too many ppl who always only play the game from a pure number perspective and the way to get these numbers lies outside the meta-event, you definitely threaten your event and all who want to make it succeed.

Though people standing around being afk is the same thing and I am not seeing complaining about that.

People are missing the biggest issue of all. Why is playing the game as intended give less and less rewards as you play?

It is not because there is no thread about it that nobody complain about AFK people or DR in other situation. I sure can point you to a lot of posts in all part of the game that complain about AFK people or leeches.

well 5 ppl or 8 max on spider farm… ooooooooh so many ppl there omg … nerf it #sarcasm

I’ve personally seen way more than that making circles above my head while I was alone defending the rally point just below.

The point you try to ridicule, but still stand, is that the effect of such farming on the meta will have an impact. With 5-8 it is negligible but at some point it will be significant. Regardless of actual numbers, it is a very bad thing that the most rewarding thing (XPwise) lies outside the meta-event.

Agemnon.4608:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Agemnon.4608:

“The no loot argument is not making it any less an exploit. They just don’t care about central Tyria exploit is all I understood.”

Right…because killing things is an “exploit”. Soon enough simply logging in will be an “exploit” too.

You are trying way too hard to make that strawman. the exploit was never to kill anything. The exploit is to never fulfill the condition to end the donjon subquest despite the fact it obviously supposed to be done as fast as possible in order to get an unintended advantage out of it.

You’d still need hours of grinding just to get anything out of that method and still no loot however. I remember when fighting Orr giants was fun then they got nerfed, now they just give champ boxes with some green gear usually. Still an improvement over the first nerfed version but the original was better because more grubs equaled more loot tables, which means that theoretically you will eventually earn a precursor and some black lion keys if you do it long enough. Sure it’d take weeks in real world time assuming no MF (it’s only incremental so heck let’s assume MF anyway) and DR but chances of getting something improve with prolonged play. If someone has a million scratch tickets and the big prize is a million to one then his chances of winning are much better than the guy who only has one ticket.

That is beside the point. It’s still an exploit. However, ANET said that this particular exploit wasn’t getting any attention for previously mentioned reasons…

Agemnon.4608:

“The no loot argument is not making it any less an exploit. They just don’t care about central Tyria exploit is all I understood.”

Right…because killing things is an “exploit”. Soon enough simply logging in will be an “exploit” too.

You are trying way too hard to make that strawman. the exploit was never to kill anything. The exploit is to never fulfill the condition to end the donjon subquest despite the fact it obviously supposed to be done as fast as possible in order to get an unintended advantage out of it.

Celtic Lady.3729:

They seem to be okay with people farming XP for Tyria but not for HoT.

It is puzzling.

The ONLY reason I understood as to why they would not bother with COF exploit (yes, it is an exploit) is because it’s mostly giving access to old stuff (ppl already have legendaries ect.). The exact same in the new zone would be ban worthy like back in the Orr farming of one event in Lyssa cathedral. The no loot argument is not making it any less an exploit. They just don’t care about central Tyria exploit is all I understood.

I think it has more to do with farming competing with event. People who farm do so because it’s a better source of XP. The problem is, if too many think in that way it screw the meta-event for the rest of us. If they just give events more XP they shorten the time required to get mastery. So if they don’t want that, they have to nerf what compete the meta-event: the spiders being one thing.

I do well with zerk by being mobile all the time.

People playing the pedal to the metal shouldn’t really feel legitimate to complain about being burnt after having burn the content. The rhythm and variation in activity is up to us players…

Fail troll thread.

nearlight.3064:

This is just way too much. You really expect me to grind out all of the mastery points of the exalted just to get a useless auric sharpening stone that has nothing to do with anything related to the weapon or the game or anything new else? What kind of bull kitten is this?

I’m a pvp player but I care about weapon skins. I want horologicus. I’m giving up precious time learning the new metagame for pvp to grind exp for a skin. It’s frustrating because there’s just too much.

I’ve been doing lots of events and map completion and today I decided to sit down and calculate how much exp I need to get the item based on what I already have. I need to spend 28 mastery points which will take me 12.7 million exp. with full boosters that’s 3175 spiders. Am I going insane? Am I really willing to kill three thousand spiders just to get an item that’s cool but not overly flashy or anything because it’s gated behind such a wall of Bull kitten?

Legend arises should require this much experience grinding, not the basic profession skin for your elite spec. It’s just too much and it’s making me resent the game rather than enjoy it because I have to go into pve to get a skin that I can’t get in pvp. It’s making me so frustrated.

There.
Rant over.

Nobody force you to grind for it you know… It’s a skin. You can play the game without it at no disadvantage.

HtFde.3856:

OK, what am I missing?

I mean … you got this treasure mushroom with about 10 Million HP in one of the most mordrem infested zones – you got those nice mounted cavaliers in the veteran version to make sure you have all the fun of being bounced around for all eternity, you ma ykill 5 enemies but then the first you killed will already respawn … and now … how the … are you supposed to do that mushroom thing?

Oh, yes, it is a group event … meaning you have to get people together. Well, been trying to do that for 3 days now … empty maps, those few peaople that are there do meta or HP … mentor tag, commander tag, spamming in chat … 0 people interested in killing a treasure mushroom on map 1.

So … what am I missing? Where is the hidden trick to make this a “wonderful gaming experience” instead of a horribly frustrating one? Whoever did THAT design in THAT location … should GW 2 HoT fail .. pat him on the back, it’s things like that that will have sersiously helped to put people off.

Fun thing is … on map 2 and 3 I had to kill the bugger by myself as well because noone was interested – sole exception was that it was DOABLE because the monster composition/spawn rate was actually manageable.

Edit: Oh, and it so much more fun with a ranger … obstructed, obstructed, obstructed … which does, apparently, not apply to any ranged enemy – they hit you fine, indeed.

Another customer for the new ‘I win’ button… coming soon on the gem store.

Seriously, can this game have more difficult content without ppl complaining about it not being a near automatic success? You know what I did with that mushroom? I asked for help in map chat and I got it nearly every time as opposed to you apparently. That shroom is only hard if you insist to kill it alone among all these modrems.

So your solution to making a sucessful Meta is to force all players into participating regardless of how many times they get disconnected or stuck in a failed zoned with no rewards? Good luck with that, I’ll stick to rewards in hand because even IF they increased the rewards for the Meta I still wouldn’t do them regularly because client stability is horrible.

Did I said that? I sometime wonder why I even bother writing anything down since ppl will rewrite all I’ve said anyway. I never said to force anything. I said to play the only thing these people understand and respect = the numbers. If the spider farming is no longer the most lucrative thing to do, and the events are, the meta-events will have more ppl involved in them. Why is it important that there are enough ppl involved in them? Because they can’t be done without enough which pretty much defeat their purpose to begin with.

And it does come down to how I want to play my game. I’ll help friends/guildies with things whenever asked to but when it comes to whether or not a Meta is successful I couldn’t give a kitten because those players didn’t pay for my game and won’t dictate how I play it.

No, it does not in the light of the OP argument. The map has a built in meta-event. If you don’t participate in it, others WILL feel the effect to varying degree. It REQUIRES many players to achieve the meta-events. There is no way around it. There is a limit of server space too that has no way around it. You do the math and you tell me again that it has no impact on others when you play the way you want. It’s not even to be argued that it DOES have an effect. It is a fact. Can you still play any way you want despite all the settings in the same way you could play badminton in the middle of a soccer match? Sure, you can. Just don’t be too surprised if someone start hating on you tho…

HtFde.3856:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

smiling.9028:

Absconditus.6804:

Most events reward good XP

Absolutely false. Mobs during events do not give XP unless it’s nearby trash that gets pulled into the fray. All you get is the token xp at the end which is the equivalent of farming about 10 trash mobs.

Unfortunately yet another thread has been posted by someone who feels the need to influence how others play their game. If you don’t like a particular farm thats happening then just don’t participate. Why ask that it be nerfed for the other players when it has no effect on you?

Again it DOES have an effect on others. If it had really no effect on others such post would never exist. I explain exactly how it has an effect on others ONE post before yours.

The meta-event game format is NOT individualistic and a given server has limited space. That you have paid for your game and therefore can play it the way you want is utterly irrelevant to this.

Hm, if the metas would actually give enough XP – would those people farm spiders? IN addition to that – how many people can efficiently farm spiders? I’d say max 5 or 6 per map and only if they really coordinate. So you’re failing metas bacuase there’s < 10 people not participating? I’d rather think the problem is elsewhere.

Now, how about people who do HP or just do gathering or do adventures that are not locked? Want to ban them too – they’re not participating … I don’t like your mindset at all. We all play how we want. If we feel that the metas do not give sufficient reward for the time invested I’d sa yit is a bloody stupid idea to nerf the things that do instead of making the metas more rewarding.

Thats is pretty much the conclusion I said a few posts above: “If we have too many side-trackers that see nothing of interest in successfully completing the meta-events because all they care about is numerical maximization the only ‘cure’ for them and the meta-event is making the event the best numerical option.”

As for your other paragraph I’m wondering where that “ban” option came from. Nobody that I know of spoke of any banning. The OP proposed a nerf on xp, not a ban. People have all the right and freedom to not participate. There isn’t a kitten thing we can do about that really. However it will have an impact.

I can tell you that I wasn’t entertaining the best emotions towards the 20+ people running in circles above my head killing spiders while I was fighting alone to keep control of the itzel camp below that I ultimately lost because 20 ppl who could have taken a fraction of their time to just help a little and save the camp while getting rewarded for this didn’t even bother to do it. It’s really hard to not fall into the “if only…” thinking.

The irony is XP is only a part of what you need to get mastery levels. In the end what you will lack, and that you initially really do not, are the mastery points. At that moment when XP won’t be your preoccupation you will suddenly realize that the cooperation of others is strongly required to get the events, HP etc. done in order to unlock a mastery point. And then maybe will you feel some resentment toward those spider farmers that took the places of ppl who would have cared about the meta event you wanted to succeed for many reasons including mastery points/achievements/pride to succeed etc.

smiling.9028:

Absconditus.6804:

Most events reward good XP

Absolutely false. Mobs during events do not give XP unless it’s nearby trash that gets pulled into the fray. All you get is the token xp at the end which is the equivalent of farming about 10 trash mobs.

Unfortunately yet another thread has been posted by someone who feels the need to influence how others play their game. If you don’t like a particular farm thats happening then just don’t participate. Why ask that it be nerfed for the other players when it has no effect on you?

Again it DOES have an effect on others. If it had really no effect on others such post would never exist. I explain exactly how it has an effect on others ONE post before yours.

The meta-event game format is NOT individualistic and a given server has limited space. That you have paid for your game and therefore can play it the way you want is utterly irrelevant to this.

mulzi.8273:

Why are people so concerned with things that do not have any bearing on them whatsoever.

But it does affect all around. They take server space but no server participation.

You can argue one way or the other about it being bad or not. The thing is, the meta event requires enough people to be doable. If we have too many side-trackers that see nothing of interest in successfully completing the meta-events because all they care about is numerical maximization the only ‘cure’ for them and the meta-event is making the event the best numerical option.

I love that map. It’s beautiful and complex. Nuhoc wallows help a lot to navigate the map.

LegallyBinding.4937:

Tangled depths is just a bad map period. Why waste time there when the others are better?

Couldn’t disagree more. It is by far my preferred map. It is beautiful and complex. You see and feel the love in it. Yes, the meta event need some fine tuning (NOT nerfing) but that hardly make the map “bad period”.

clarkcd.6532:

It appears that the fix is in next Tuesday’s patch.

:)

mulzi.8273:

I agree. It seems if you completed any Tyria map with a character, that character does not get a map completion reward (i tested on VB 1 hour ago). However, I new character with no map completion in tyria gets the reward (i tested this as well)..

It get worse when you did it with all of them

Do we have any estimates about how much time it will take to let us get map reward on new maps for those of us that already had 100% map completion on old map? It blocks a lot of things for some of us as it is…

Tineks.9275:

Very annoying and boring fight not even close to battle with Zaithan. It look like game from 2008 fight not imprest Come on Anet you could do it like way better. And one rapair station would be nice. I ended up naked plus restarting if you die is annoying as hell to start everything again and do all boring staff again …

A big WTF moment for me when I read your opinion. Zaithan’s fight asked us to hit “2” over and over until he was dead in a “misssion” we couldn’t fail…

Mordremoth ask you to think and do what must be done at the moment it need to be and you sure as hell can fail. I know all taste are in nature but seriously I can’t disagree more with you.

Don’t you dare touch snipers and blade dancers! That is the kind of monsters that prevent players from mindlessly buttonmashing their ways to victory. We NEED that kind of opponents. I too hate them but I want them in that game.