Guild Wars 2

Woozified.7058:

Currently, due to their recent buff, it’s very easy to hide mesmers in keeps, and even towers. The invisibility lasts for a very long time, and when it ends, mesmers can quickly go invisible again.

A counter argument may be to sweep or use stealth disruption traps, but sweeping takes a very long time, especially if the mesmer is good at hiding. Also stealth disruption traps require supply to use. And this is all just to catch >1< mesmer.

I hope Anet is looking into ways to address this, because I’m really sick of playing hide and seek with mesmers.

It wouldn’t be THAT bad if mesmers were uncommon. Sadly they are a plague now in WvW.

You know something is wrong when you need so many ppl to get one person that you can’t ignore.

Osu.6307:

Let’s give anet some ideas on what wvwers would spend gems on so the potential revenue increase creates an incentive for anet to give wvw more attention.

I’d go out and buy gems in a heartbeat for a programmable inventory manager. I want a little elf that sits in my bags and automatically:
1) salvages all my white, blue and green loot and sends the mats to my materials bank
2) uses all my luck so i don’t have to waste time clicking it. Seriously, why can’t luck just get auto-looted like gold or karma
3) opens loot bags
4) sells junk to merchants

I’d also drop cash for extra bag space used exclusively for siege that would be shared by all my characters.

I really don’t even begin to see how game mode even matters when talking gem purchase. No matter if I play pve, pvp or wvw purchasing a skin, more space, conveniences or what else is relevant and possibly interresting. What is it with this myth that WvW is not worth investing in because it doesn’t sell gems?

funghetto.1584:

hello

when are you thinking of getting foods away from wvw?

get whatever class – set it up berserk-knight with melandru rune or hoelbrack or antitoxin get a food -40% condition duration and voilà -60% or -65%!

simply hilarious!

whatever kind of build hybrid or condition MUST USE same food but +40% to get some conditions applied to any kind of those builds

i want wvw foods removed as in pvp (its enough having some runes that drop conditions duration)

regards

How about no? At this point you would make crafting disciplines irrelevant. Beside, what is the problem if you also have access to the same options?

I agree that some food are too potent compared to others but removing food is a big no-no to me. We have pvp for that kind of strict environment and wvw has far more urgent and bigger issues than that.

katniss.6735:

The people who tested it in beta, were you trying to solo roam with warhorn? Because I don’t think that’s the intent of the designers.

I tried it solo, and in group.

Verdict solo: I solo roam with zerk staff in wvw and I like it but would never do so again with war horn.

Verdict group: In a group it is viable, however, I failed to see why I would use an inferior spec than what my staff already provide in that regard. In short, what is the point of that specialization? We already have a very powerful support role and staff does it better while not having to shoot itself in the foot by taking a trait line that is so poor synergy-wise.

Puck.9612:

Shaman.4513:

I say give some classes -the Revenant for instance- a skill that remove stealth, everything in the game got a counter skill except for the stealth!

Are you kidding? I mean even if you are new to the game several people have listed ways to counter and remove stealth in this very thread.

To be fair, there are no real counter to stealth once it is applied. Stealth traps are ridiculous and having to carry them and shell 10 supplies just to drop one is not a serious proposition.

Yesterday again, 20 ppl had to spend 15 min to catch 1 mesmer inside smc. And, no, these were not all idiots and incompetent ppl believe me… finding a mesmer can be a huge pain for tons of ppl and you can’t ignore them.

Aetrion.8295:

The biggest problem with Tempest is that people seem to think that Tempest must be an upgrade to what they are doing right now, which is simply not the case. Tempest isn’t supposed to make all current builds obsolete, it’s supposed to be one of many possible builds.

The fundamental issue ANet needs to address is that it’s currently way too easy to make an ideal build and literally thousands of other build possibilities are viewed as useless as a result. So sure, as long as that’s broken nobody is going to be happy with getting something added to the game that isn’t better than what they got in every way.

I need a “WTF” emote here…

What exactly lead you to believe that non-sense? I have tried Tempest extensively all the beta week-end despite me not liking it, but truly wanting to, and trying to wiggle my build any way I could to find something remotely as viable as what I knew and was sorely disappointed to conclude that the best I could do was not even close to anything I already had and no different save for the pretty animations.

Nobody I know wanted to have anything better. I wanted something different that was equally viable. And in that regard it is a failure. I’m often defending ANET vs many ridiculous comments posters make but here I won’t. It is a legit failure to me and no number tweak can fix this. It is a conceptual problem.

Grimreaper.5370:

I see a lot of people are not happy about the tempest design, so I’m curious…

If tempest is released as is, how many of you will quit playing Ele as main and move to another class?

Will anyone go so far as to quit and look for a different game if the elite spec doesn’t offer something fresh/unique?

Quitting because of that is puerile and I already purchased HoT so it’s too late for me to not buy it (but I learned my lesson). I, like many others, will carry on with the ele I currently have.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Literally just nerf cantrips and buff the other utility types, and everything will be a-ok.

Uh, no.­ How is that only nerfing d/d ele? This is the kind of very bad blind nerf we don’t want.

Our only meta build for the entire history of the game has been cantrips + water + arcane. I think that a good solution would change that, at the very least.

Like it or not, the core of D/D ele is water cantrip synergy, and reallocating that power is probably the only thing that will actually create build variety.

Sure, but the reason why it is like that affect all builds not just d/d and is not what is the problem with d/d.

The real problem that exist with d/d cele is that it can still do so much damage despite investing so much into defense. That it is possible to have it all is the problem. A problem that none of the other weapons have with all that exist atm.

So, IMO, the problem lies with d/d skills letting them access too much of what they should not considering what they invested into. Not cantrips. Cantrips are only taken because no other alternative to fulfill the profession needs exist otherwise. Make it so that a glyph or a signet can fulfill these needs and you will see plenty of diversity. People are all too willing to see new path and options as long as they are viable.

Maybe remove one blast finisher and add cd on fire fields as well as reduce burning for all… start with something that will only touch the problem not what is not.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Literally just nerf cantrips and buff the other utility types, and everything will be a-ok.

Uh, no.­ How is that only nerfing d/d ele? This is the kind of very bad blind nerf we don’t want.

posthumecaver.6473:

Wolfric.9380:

I would completly remove might stacks from Burning Fire.
And reduce ring of fire to 1 burn stack.

the only other thing that should be looked at is the mandatory water/cantrip thing. But touching this can destroy ele because there is not good build diversity beside water/cantrips. Skiping 80% of eles condi defence + loosing regeneration would be grim.

I personaly are not hit/hurt very often by spells like dragon breath or cone of cold. This is more L2P.

If you nerf that way all the builds other then D/D Ele would be nerfed also.

Other builds are so far from relevance I am not sure it is wise to nerf not D/D Cele specific things.

You can nerf burn stacking from Drake Breath and RoF they are weapon skills but Devs have to be really careful that what impact these nerfs will cause on other specs.

Like glass cannon D/F Marauder Ele, Fire/Air Staff, etc… yeah I know they are not META prob nobody plays them but this is no reason to burry them harder…

I was thinking the same thing. Many of the suggestions given hurt a lot more than just the D/D ele. The other ele builds are far from OP.

The one thing that is a problem all around and that I would agree with is the burning. Burning is way too strong ATM regardless of who uses it.

Vermillion.4061:

I’m highly against zergs but 5 players should not be allowed to kill an entire zerg.

If 5 players manage to kill an entire zerg they deserve to die.

If they are to be nerf, and as an ele main myself I think they should, the first step would be to reduce the ridiculous amount of burning they can stack. Just that would be a good step in the right direction.

That being said I’m strongly against the reduction of condi cleanse. The problem is not there. The real issue with that build is that it can do too much damage for the sustain it has. Hence the reduction of burning on the build or even on burn period (that condi is OP ATM).

Personally, I don’t hate it but I really don’t like it either. Sadly, unless you want to play with the auras the existing synergy with the other trait lines is very poor.

Also, while the overload idea has potential, for now the risk/reward aspect of it is kitten. Why should I penalize myself overloading fire with the consequence of doing so if my lava font dps is at least as good? Yes, I know it’s also a finisher that burns and pulse might but considering how long it takes to channel and the consequences of doing so I was expecting a bigger payoff.

The elite is also not just extraordinarily underwhelming save for very specific group settings, it’s also not fitting an ele thematic even if it’s arcane aligned. Making it an arcane shout could have been better even if it’s clearly a chronomancer gimmick, not an elementalist one.

Ultimately, what makes me really disappointed is that I’m left wondering why I would ever want to pick that specialization? What can it do that I can’t already do with the other line, and better at that, except stun break others? It is simply not worth giving up other specializations for that one.

Mightybird.6034:

Engi’s largest strength over ele will always be that engi can do it all whereas ele will (almost certainly) never have access to stealth or reflect like engi does. Engi has a real elite as well…

Ele has a reflect, it’s called magnetic aura.

kakumbien.8047:

I think this picture can explain everything about position of mesmers. Actually you know that but someone (coughDevscough) might want to know too

Last match I had yesterday was vs a team of 4 mesmers and 1 ele. I was like “fuuuuuck my life”.

There is no denying there is a boom in mesmer pop atm.

alain.1659:

Just play unranked when you are playing for fun. I usually do that and pretty content with the outcome. This game is for fun, it is not a job, not an education, not a responsibility. It is a game. Which you are playing for fun.

Even if you hit the tpvp button, and I do, you logically should be placed with ppl who, like you, are pugging.

If you enter a match with a premade team you had your chances to discuss the team comp and if all involved are ok with it anyway.

If you pug, assume the kittening fact you pugged. Don’t be like the bazillion loosers in GW1 who would queue for random groups only to immediately drop the match if their team had no monk.

Drakortha.6974:

In my 2 years of playing sPvP ive never really followed any builds or meta or anything. I always just took my class, skills, and traits at face value and decide for myself what i like to use. Sometimes find good combinations, and little strategies. For the most part it works for me. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. I think I do reasonably well.

After all, I think that’s a pretty big “101” when it comes to good game design – the player should be able to work things out and get good at the game from simply playing and learning by exploring different things within the game itself. And a game like GW2, with a lot of diversity in skills and abilities, one should decide for themselves what skills and traits suits their personal playstyle.

anyone else?

That is exactly what I do. For one I’m kittening allergic to cookie cutter builds that relieve you from the burden of thinking for yourself. For two, ppl forcing me to play anything is a big turn-off.

There is nothing more sad than seeing all the same kittening builds game, after game, after game. I like when ppl are bold in pvp with their build.

Velimere.7685:

The appeal to authority fallacies in this thread are real and intellectually disturbing.

I was so totally thinking the same…

messiah.1908:

also i dont know why ppl look for 1v more than 3 if you manage to down them all they are too bad as they can res each other fast even with not doing anything

That is soooooo true and one of the thing that can make me go into a near catatonic state when I see it happen in front of me.

Fay.2357:

Choppy.4183:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

tl;dr: Expecting your profession to provide possibility to win 1 v X is bad to me.

This. Especially when he already qualified the opponents as competent.

Well, a couple things.

First, consider that competence is necessarily a relative measure. When I say ‘competent’, I’m not saying they’re as good as me. Now and then that happens, but those encounters are rather substantially more rare. Competent is more a reflection on relative competence than absolute competence.

Additionally, competence shows up in different ways. I call folks competent in wvw if they’re able to coordinate their attacks to hit me, not suicide on confusion and torment, and be capable of utilizing their mobility to stick to me unless I really burn cooldowns to juke for a disengage. Those 3 qualities together are fairly rare and will make an outnumbered fight substantially more difficult immediately. What those don’t necessarily include are any grasp of tactics.

So yes, if a group of 5 or 6 folks stick together, use their condie clears effectively, and coordinate attacks when I de-stealth, I won’t be able to touch them. However, that’s an inefficient way of actually killing a PU mes, especially if there’s a lot of opportunities to LoS. What usually ends up happening is the group will spread out to cover more ground. When spread out, certain members of the group will be more vulnerable to bursting, and so I’ll execute a burst on them. Stomping is still a bit iffy if the group isn’t totally devoid of tactical thought, but can be done on non-thief/ele/Mesmer.

What PU does for me is it allows me to be slippery enough that the group feels the need to spread out and split up. It allows me to play hide and seek long enough to make them mad, and mad people make mistakes and overextend. I can capitalize on mistakes and overextension even against competent players, and come out with kills.

I get what you are saying but at the same time don’t you see a problem with what you said?

You admit the group HAS to split to have any chances to catch you but them doing so make them much easier preys.

Sure if they all stick together they can probably laugh at all the condies and get quick res when you successfully insta gib one of them.

However, playing it safe means forget about catching the mesmer. If you try and catch the mesmer, you forget about the safety of the group. No matter what you do, the mesmer is laughing at 5 + ppl. This is bad to me.

It’d say 3. I see a lot of issues but many skills are undeniably strong.

Windwalker.7421:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

All things being equal, you should have your hands full with 1 opponent of your caliber. Winning 1 v 2 very occasionally if your opponents made mistakes and you didn’t.

Oh I would agree, but in my experiences this is the case. I have run into players of pretty much every class that can school me like no one else ever has. These people are definitely better at their class then I am at mine, no doubt, but it clearly shows that just about any profession is able to be built in a way to be a strong solo roamer.

I think this last point can’t be stressed enough!

In WvW you often fight very suboptimally specialized opponents, whom most likely are only engaging you because they have a numeric advantage. They’re used to zerging it up, and not fighting small-scale. This is why you very often fight and even win 1v2 or 1v3 battles in WvW, but you can do this on just about any profession if you’re built for small-scale, and they’re not.

We often like to refer to these players as being bad, and to a solist kiter/juker they are. They’re not built for it, nor are they experienced in it. Look at that one video with the Team Speak thing, are these players really that bad? Yeah! They were like fish on land. They seemed to be reasonably experienced in WvW as a whole, but probably mostly the Zerg vs. Zerg and PvE aspects of it.

Once they ran into a semi-competent soloist, they indulged him in his game even though they lacked experience and were ill prepared for it. Heck they clearly had rarely even seen (or given notice to) Mesmers before, they knew literally nothing about the class. (And conditions in general, which is why they had no Condie clears. Mostly useless in zerg vs. zerg!)

So it’s a bit disingenuous to draw the conclusion that a solo player beating 2-4 others means he’s playing an OPd profession/build, or that the 2-4 are all bad. They are just bad and/or unprepared for small-scale PvP, especially in a kiting/juking type of environment where it’s very easy to underestimate the solo player.

There is a HUGE difference between a bad player and a bad build for a given situation. PPL playing WvW you encounter will often have builds suited for the many needs of WvW (I myself roam with a hybrid build because I’m lazy about constantly switching gear and traits). This means that if you are specialized for roaming and duels (and don’t mind one sec being next to useless for your team compared to what you could) you having a relatively easy time in fights doesn’t mean you are good and that they are bad. It mostly means your tools for the given situation are way better than what they are stuck with when they encounter the kittening mesmer.

My point is, even with all that in mind, the idea of expecting 1 v X to be available is inherently kittened up.

messiah.1908:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Fay.2357:

echo.2053:

pu isn’t needed, its just a crutch for bad players to lean on. between blocks, blinks, utilities blinds on shatter, position awareness… you shouldnt need added stealth..

you might as well just be a p/d teef

You obviously didn’t read a single thing past the 2 letters ‘P’ and ‘U’.

PU is necessary to properly maintain 1vx where x>3. It’s not necessary for smaller fights, but since 1v3+ happen very often in WvW, PU is necessary to ensure that you can engage into any situation.

To be honest, the simple idea that any profession expect to 1 v X makes me feel uneasy and tend to signal something is not right. At least to me.

All things being equal, you should have your hands full with 1 opponent of your caliber. Winning 1 v 2 very occasionally if your opponents made mistakes and you didn’t.

When I see 1 vs 5- 10 with a lone mesmer still managing to win a war of attrition I can’t help but see it as something being very wrong even if the opponents are all bad (I’ve seen too many instances where this was simply not the case). There are limits to always equate all to others being bad.

tl;dr: Expecting your profession to provide possibility to win 1 v X is bad to me.

let him try to win 1v3 in tpvp full team (not hotjoin)

in wvw i see many players just standing clicking which are easy to kill and i find some 1v1 which are hard to win ,
wvw is not the ground to judge a build

I partially agree. I know all balance are to be judge on the ground of pvp but no matter how much you want it to work it just can’t in the end.

As a wvw player first I have quite a high tolerance, I think, to unbalance. However, when an known issue exist in one game mode ignoring that issue when you make changes is just unforgivable. Stealth in WvW was such an issue. Making it more available and for longer periods was an absurd decision to begin with no matter if it’s ok in pvp or not. They could, read should, have use other options that were at least not known to be problematic in your other game mode to begin with.

tl;dr: You can’t constantly ignore the rest of your game because you only maintain balance relative to one mode.

Windwalker.7421:

Then again they beefed up Confusion damage in general (but we’re definitely the kings of confusion now), Scepter #3, and Chaos Armor with traited staff, and added some new Condie traits like Ineptitude, Blinding Dissipation, and Mistrust.

As much as the MtD nerf was knee-jerk and a bit ludicrous in light of Burn-oriented classes often doing MUCH higher burst damage the us, overall I have to say that in WvW at least Condie Mesmers are more than fine.

I had the displeasure of running into a well played Burn Engie using Flamethrower and Pistol/Shield. 3.8k Burn ticks…ouch! He did well in waiting to burst until late into the fight, and got me hard. I’ve seen this with some Guardians and Eles too, as well as the rare Condie Ranger who can put some pretty absurd Bleed, Burn, and Poison bursts on you. (With 25% extra damage on poison, even Poison can hurt a lot…especially when you get 8-9 stacks of it within a very short duration.)

However, we tend to outshine most of the above in AoE conditions combined with stealth of course.

And hating on PU in WvW is just silly. Why would you handicap yourself and not use what your class has been given, especially when it’s in an environment where as a solo roamer you’re mostly facing 2-3 enemy players, or of course getting chased halfway across the map by zergs.

Burning is full kitten atm. It should have a cap on the stack it can reach that is never higher than 5… You are preaching at the choir as far as I’m concerned.

As for PU, I’m not blaming ppl to use what is available unless they try and tell me that they like any real challenge.

What I blame is PU being available in the form it is. That coupled with a 24 sec teleport/stun breaker that has a range of 1200 makes it hell to bring down any mesmer.

Fay.2357:

echo.2053:

pu isn’t needed, its just a crutch for bad players to lean on. between blocks, blinks, utilities blinds on shatter, position awareness… you shouldnt need added stealth..

you might as well just be a p/d teef

You obviously didn’t read a single thing past the 2 letters ‘P’ and ‘U’.

PU is necessary to properly maintain 1vx where x>3. It’s not necessary for smaller fights, but since 1v3+ happen very often in WvW, PU is necessary to ensure that you can engage into any situation.

To be honest, the simple idea that any profession expect to 1 v X makes me feel uneasy and tend to signal something is not right. At least to me.

All things being equal, you should have your hands full with 1 opponent of your caliber. Winning 1 v 2 very occasionally if your opponents made mistakes and you didn’t.

When I see 1 vs 5- 10 with a lone mesmer still managing to win a war of attrition I can’t help but see it as something being very wrong even if the opponents are all bad (I’ve seen too many instances where this was simply not the case). There are limits to always equate all to others being bad.

tl;dr: Expecting your profession to provide possibility to win 1 v X is bad to me.

Laraley.7695:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Laraley.7695:

FlawlezZ.3178:

Why should it be buffed? No reason to it. Thief and mesmer had that for two years. There must be something where Ele is actually worse than other classes. Do you also want Ranger, Warrior, Guard, Necro, Revenant, Engi 1200 blink?

Ele is completely fine and doesn’t need another buff.

Buffing the range on lightning flash from 900 to 1200 would not be a big deal.

It would. Ele would be basically invincible.

No, celestial ele is completely fine. Zerker/Marauder ele can hardly compete with other dps specs. People need to stop focusing on the only viable meta build and actually realize that not everyone wants to play it. Some people want diversity as well.

To be fair, cele ele is too good since too long. The risk reward trade is clearly off balance.

To be fair, zerker ele is too bad since too long. The risk reward trade is clearly off balance.

Having one build strong doesn’t mean people shouldn’t be asking for different stuff to be viable.

If you know my posting history even a little you are preaching at the choir. It is also in large part the reason why I hate reading about ele as if it was just cele d/d.

The range of risk/reward on our profession is probably the most diversified going from insanely high risk/reward to insanely low risk/high reward.

Aeolus.3615:

Macro ur elementalist bursts and water blasts, problem solved :P

>:}

There actually exist ppl so lazy and cheap as to macro combos? Arg…. shame, shame, shame…

Malchior.5732:

Kidel.2057:

I don’t know what you’re QQing about. Ele is already the strongest class in the game.

What the hell. Can do power builds, condi builds (incinerator 11k burn per second), full healer builds, 1vs30 build, and now even Guard.. ehm.. Tempest.

It’s jack of all trades and master of ALL.

I hate this argument so much.
We have one build at the top and most Eles are sick of playing it because it’s pretty much the same gameplay we’ve had for years and that means we can’t have something new? I’d gladly trade Cele D/D for a better Tempest and more viable builds.

Tell me about it. I almost never play that OP build myself and I’m always lump into the cele d/d basket anyway.

Ele has such a huge range in risk vs reward builds that even if it is true that cele d/d is by far the most abused and unbalanced it feel so wrong to even try to make such generalizations.

Laraley.7695:

FlawlezZ.3178:

Why should it be buffed? No reason to it. Thief and mesmer had that for two years. There must be something where Ele is actually worse than other classes. Do you also want Ranger, Warrior, Guard, Necro, Revenant, Engi 1200 blink?

Ele is completely fine and doesn’t need another buff.

Buffing the range on lightning flash from 900 to 1200 would not be a big deal.

It would. Ele would be basically invincible.

No, celestial ele is completely fine. Zerker/Marauder ele can hardly compete with other dps specs. People need to stop focusing on the only viable meta build and actually realize that not everyone wants to play it. Some people want diversity as well.

To be fair, cele ele is too good since too long. The risk reward trade is clearly off balance. Anything with such sustain should not have the offensive capabilities d/d cele has.

That being said, either lightning flash need to be brought back to par with other teleports or blink need to increase it’s cool down. 24 sec on a stun break that has a 1200 range teleport and access to stealth is kittening too good.

Windwalker.7421:

It never ceases to amaze me how different people’s view of morals on the Internet are.

Story time…sit back and grab a bag of popcorn…

Press the spoiler button at your own peril, there be walls-o-text within!

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

My very first MMO was Ultima Online. If you were there for the early days, you might be able to understand the story a bit better. I was but a wee little a scrub in a tight-knit little guild called The League of Pirates, which had come to some renown in the pre-alphas. Sheer luck and the fancy of being a pirate in an MMO somehow got me into this guild, despite being quite a bad player early on.

We built the very first boat in beta and sailed it through the city of Vesper, and my very first ever PvP kill in an MMO was a rather popular member of my own guild! This didn’t make me very popular with some of my mates early on, but later —as I became somewhat less scrubby-- I got along with everyone.

However, I digress. There was a guildy of mine named Abindago. You could almost say this kid, about 5 years younger than myself, taught me about “moral values” on the Internet. This guy was a master infiltrator…and no, I’m not talking about a class in the game! You worry about someone abusing TS for spying, which btw happened just as much in IRC back then…well Abindago took things “a wee bit” farther. He would infiltrate our enemies guilds under a new toon he’d power-leveled for weeks in secret ONLY for this purpose! He would befriend the most powerful guys in these guilds very quickly, blind them with his broad knowledge of the game, and of course his own personal riches which he was generously sharing! This guy was basically role-playing a con artist! A rather heartless one at that!

In case you never played UO, it wasn’t a coddled safe environment like most MMOs are today. Everything you owned could be stolen from you. Everything. If you owned a house/tower/castle, you had a key. If you didn’t want just anyone to walk in, you had to lock the doors…which meant carrying the keys, which could be stolen from your backpack by other players. Keys stolen? Weeks worth of work for you entire guild down the drain at the press of a button. Thanks for the tower! Have a nice day! (A little later the company fixed this so you at least couldn’t steal the structures from people anymore once they were placed, but everything that was inside them was still fair game!)

Abindago was the destroyer of guilds. After a guild would entrust him with full access to the guild house(s) and chests, we’d pick a late night moment, and a dozen of us would sometimes spend an hour looting the places down to the very last worthless belonging…just to really rub it in. This never failed to kill off these guilds completely. The internal strife over the lost loot, the embarrassment of being conned…it never failed to destroy these guilds. Heartless.

Abin and I got to be closest pals in game, and he never ceased to amaze me with his talent for conning. In order to infiltrate another rival guild, he faked an elaborate & drama-filled break-up with ours. He incitekittene flame war on our message boards, even most of our members didn’t know it was fake, and it all ended up with him giving our enemies the keys to our HQ to really make them believe he had crossed us.

After they looted our house, he was put on our KoS list and he was now “in like Flynn” with our enemies. Before long we looted them dry, and our little double-agent returned to us faithfully as he had always done before. (That’s the strange part…he was always really loyal, and the nicest guy you could ever meet. Provided you were in our guild! )

What’s the moral of this story? It’s the internet! Team speak, message boards, in game…none of it is subject to moral analysis. Your ideas of “moral” behavior on this virtual playground are vastly different from other people’s.

Ahh the good ole days…

/facepalm.

The “it’s the Internet” and “we all have different conceptions of morality” line to defend your point? Really? #logicalfallacies

If you haven’t figure out yet why some moral concept like “don’t do to others what you wouldn’t want done to self” are more universal and a keystone of society I’m not going to try and waste my time explaining it to you.

As a side note, and purely on an argumentative pov., I seriously fail to see the link between an otherwise very interesting story and the conclusions you have drawn from it… but I tried…

denis.9487:

I think it’s ingenious. We get to actually hear what’s going on and see at the same time. I personally think this is a glimpse of why we have so much hate. Just takes 1 match to start a fire. Very clever entertaining and most of all comical all that’s missing is Benny hill music.

Just try and put yourself into these players boots for a minute. Remember, you are obviously casual and probably don’t understand all you should.

How do you feel when you are faced with something you feel powerless to stop that goes on and on? How do you feel when even vs so many you still can’t even the odds? At some point you feel frustration and anger. This is what you can listen to on that TS. People feeling powerless and angry.

You know what makes it even worse? Someone who want people to feel that way and who obviously thrive on it. This, no matter the profession, will engender hate. Trolls, are hungry for it as it feeds their deficient ego. However, not all profession make it as ez to troll ppl. Do you think it is a coincidence the most hated professions are those who are seemingly at the same time abusing stealth and favored by trolls? I don’t.

You genuinely want the profession to be less hated? Make it less troll friendly or at least don’t be gentle when a fellow mesmer is an @hole. Many thieves and mesmer I know are true gentlemen and an example of sportsmanship. Sadly, they share their trade with many, too many, who are not and it leave some marks…

RyanThomas.4182:

Ele is the class with the lowest base health and lowest base armor. It should have been obvious to Anet that almost every trait and utility choice ele’s make is to make up for that. That’s why we take water, arcana, and cantrips pretty much all the time.

But instead of offering us alternative ways to stay alive, we end up with shouts.

Agree completely. That is the one big failure the dev always failed to grasp or do anything about it. Ele never really wanted to always go water/arcane/cantrip. We went there because it’s was where we could find what low life and armor desperately needed.

You want to open build diversity? Really? Then make it so glyphs and shouts, as well as other kind of magic, offer what we need to offset our fragility. Why can’t we have good defensive glyphs spec for example the same way we could have had more offensive cantrips?

Being stuck for long into one attunement absolutely doesn’t help in that regard either since our survivability largely depend on the elemental dance. The overcharged powers as presented can’t possibly make up for it.

Of course I do more than just WvW but WvW is clearly THE game mode that makes me continue playing GW2. Remove WvW from the game and I’m out.

If roaming is what you like, lower tiers are a lot more interesting. T5 should be good for your need so I’m wondering if your server being “dead” represent a T5 thing so much as an unhealthy T5 server.

apharma.3741:

@Sirbeaumerdier

I agree, TS invading is bad, it’s poor play and I don’t like it even if it’s for fun with people who were kittenbags to you.

However, the people in the video are terrible. You’re an ele, can you honestly say that ele played even half decent at all? I saw him stay in fire all the time, I think once there was a static field but in general he was bad.

I mean, where was water 5? You and I both know that would have rendered the condi user obsolete till the necro showed up. You can’t defend that kind of terrible play. A condi thief would have farmed them for days, same with engineer. Hell even the necro, yes the necro that had it’s conditions nerfed to the ground this patch was wrecking them and they have FA stab, you can CC them to death!

Mind you, if Obs wasn’t running traveler s/he would have died I dare say as mesmer is soooo slow.

I totally agree that the people in the vid are very bad. In retrospect I regret having put my last line since it apparently ended-up stealing the show despite the fact it’s the TS intrusion that is shocking to me.

denis.9487:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

denis.9487:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

denis.9487:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

unknownchaos.1425:

Hello. I always heard about how bad I was talked about in "the other servers mapchat/teamspeak. I didn’t really care much. But I did wonder how true it was.

This video is me in the enemy teamspeak hidden. Hunting down the borderland defenders.

It’s honestly the funniest video I have ever made. I normally don’t watch my own videos after they are completed but this one I’ve watched 3 times. It never gets old.

So have at it. Call me bad, call me mean. I have my reasons for doing it. Or just have a laugh on me.

https://youtu.be/tdy9KZCjMtI

I have watched that vid and despite my immense sense of humor I didn’t laugh once. How can I laugh at something so gratuitous and low?

Honestly, if you have something to say in your defense, you said you had your reasons to be such an kitten, say it now because I’m about to report this post since you clearly violate their TS. This is clearly against ANET code of conduct and certainly mine…

BTW, an excellent example of PU mesmer in WvW nowadays with everything wrong there is with it…

What’s your last sentence?

what is your point?

My point being be mad for ts, not try using this as evidence to Mesmer being op!!!

Can you write that down in a way it can make sense?

Am I to understand that the last btw line is so offensive to you that you became blind to all that came before it and was the crux of what was said?

Some humor is offensive, your upset ts was used this way but you want to fuel the fire to nerf Mesmer by using this video. May I help you count, maybe help you read, how about help you fight a Mesmer? Sorry can’t help that keep playing staff ele taking dirt naps clicking way points because sadly like what is shown in the video you choose not to listen and do things your own jet setting nerf crying ways.

Again you respond with more strawman nonsense. The crux of my post was about the TS intrusion, yet you fixated on the “BTW line” I add at the end while trying to imply my opinion is based on me being beating silly by mesmers. Since you know how to read if I,m to beleive what you imply, you should know this is not the case since a long time now.

I did say before in this very thread, as well as elsewhere, that I never felt Mesmer was too strong before patch despite being mesmer food since the very beginning. There is a difference between having a class that is strong in duel by nature and a class that has become too strong period.

But, again, let’s make a fixation on the detail and totally forget about the main idea that, again, you see no problem there…

denis.9487:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

denis.9487:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

unknownchaos.1425:

Hello. I always heard about how bad I was talked about in "the other servers mapchat/teamspeak. I didn’t really care much. But I did wonder how true it was.

This video is me in the enemy teamspeak hidden. Hunting down the borderland defenders.

It’s honestly the funniest video I have ever made. I normally don’t watch my own videos after they are completed but this one I’ve watched 3 times. It never gets old.

So have at it. Call me bad, call me mean. I have my reasons for doing it. Or just have a laugh on me.

https://youtu.be/tdy9KZCjMtI

I have watched that vid and despite my immense sense of humor I didn’t laugh once. How can I laugh at something so gratuitous and low?

Honestly, if you have something to say in your defense, you said you had your reasons to be such an kitten, say it now because I’m about to report this post since you clearly violate their TS. This is clearly against ANET code of conduct and certainly mine…

BTW, an excellent example of PU mesmer in WvW nowadays with everything wrong there is with it…

What’s your last sentence?

what is your point?

My point being be mad for ts, not try using this as evidence to Mesmer being op!!!

Can you write that down in a way it can make sense?

Am I to understand that the last btw line is so offensive to you that you became blind to all that came before it and was the crux of what was said?

denis.9487:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

unknownchaos.1425:

Hello. I always heard about how bad I was talked about in "the other servers mapchat/teamspeak. I didn’t really care much. But I did wonder how true it was.

This video is me in the enemy teamspeak hidden. Hunting down the borderland defenders.

It’s honestly the funniest video I have ever made. I normally don’t watch my own videos after they are completed but this one I’ve watched 3 times. It never gets old.

So have at it. Call me bad, call me mean. I have my reasons for doing it. Or just have a laugh on me.

https://youtu.be/tdy9KZCjMtI

I have watched that vid and despite my immense sense of humor I didn’t laugh once. How can I laugh at something so gratuitous and low?

Honestly, if you have something to say in your defense, you said you had your reasons to be such an kitten, say it now because I’m about to report this post since you clearly violate their TS. This is clearly against ANET code of conduct and certainly mine…

BTW, an excellent example of PU mesmer in WvW nowadays with everything wrong there is with it…

What’s your last sentence?

what is your point?

denis.9487:

If it insults you don’t watch. Could have simply said I dislike this for this reason. Taking the opportunity to cry Mesmer op is what the problem is. Many comics use material for comedy that is offensive guess what don’t listen watch or support. Could have given your advice on the content not strung along the other stuff.

It is not a matter of insult. I’m not on playing on SBI after all. However, I’m personally very tired of the ppl abusing enemy TS. It ruin the game. I won’t caution it and will always denounce it when I see it… and so should you all.

denis.9487:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

ToaLux.6478:

Hi, Sirbeau! Could you please stop coming into the Mesmer forum, essentially demanding Mesmer nerfs, and then making backhanded comments about Mesmers and their builds?

I know you play zero staff ele and get destroyed by Mesmers among other classes, and that’s understandable. But if you’re going to hop on the Mesmer hatewagon—please do it in a less… abrasive way. Such as making a thread as to why Mesmer needs nerfs, mayhaps?

Anyway! I liked the video, and I hope those featured in the video got a kick out of it as well

I’m disappointed you find that funny Fila.

The thread you speak up was made many times by many ppl and suggestions provided. The problem is, no matter what, we have ppl like Denis here who never see any problem at all no matter what is shown or said to them. I suppose it slowly made me more and more abrasive over time … The troll vid here also doesn’t help to be honest.

We have people like you who constantly see a problem with everything, aparantly even humor. What I was shown are people killing themselves crying hacks. If you didn’t see or hear the same thing then I don’t know what to say. If you look I have said many times damage is running high on all classes cs should be looked at along with blinding dis. But why on this comical thread am I defending myself? Because people like you no matter what constantly cry Mesmer op!!

I never cried once before patch that mesmer was op despite the fact I always was mesmer food. I think we can agree some fine tuning are in order. Let’s leave it at that.

unknownchaos.1425:

Pre patch that kind of PU mes would never rack the damage it does now nor the ridiculously long stealth that account for pretty much the whole vid success.

That’s your statement. I gave you a video from 2 years ago….lol.

And your reply with ts invasion.. Please pal. You are not even trying hard anymore

wow and he insist…

Ok, how does that vid invalidate the fact you do more damage today and that you got more stealth now? It doesn’t.

If you had that kind of success 2 years ago with less do you think it’s harder today to do the exact same? Take your time. Think about it.

BTW, I reported your post not because of your mesmer play but because of your abuse in enemy TS. Hence my reply, hoping you would seize your opportunity to make yourself scarce. The mesmer OP thing is a sideline comment that ppl sadly made central. I’m actually baffled that what seem more offensive to many is my opinion on current mesmer rather than the behavior you shown in the vid which has noting to do with any profession.

This is a while ago..

The video below makes your whole post wrong.

But won’t matter , I already know your agenda driven type. But here is for trying!

Have another watch of me 2 years ago..lol

https://youtu.be/WQ3LEbrg6f0

I hope you were not invading enemy TS back then is all I can say. We got too much of that.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

They were bad no question about it but it was still clear that it wasn’t the skill level that was getting the result here. Playing anything else, even with a lot more skill all things being equal, would have had it’s limit very fast.

But build aside. This behavior here, that you and the OP think is awesome, really doesn’t help the hate vs the profession.

I don’t find the video that amusing, but the opponents he faced are so bad that you need a much better video to prove that mesmer needs a nerf. And I say this with an agreement that PU needs to tone down. No personal disrespect or anything, but with no condi clear shown by his opponents and no coordination…any condi specs will handle them well. A condi thief can achieve the same result, a burn guard can handle them when they’re scattered and only run in twos and threes, an engi can also do the same with enough environment utilization. Even in the video his necro partner manage to wipe 4 men after they got up from rally as well.

To be fair, what irk me here is not the mesmer performance. I see that every day in wvw.

No, it’s the intrusion of the enemy TS and lack of respect that I find disturbing. We have too many of these ppl ruining the game for all.

Vieux P.1238:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

They were bad no question about it but it was still clear that it wasn’t the skill level that was getting the result here. Playing anything else, even with a lot more skill all things being equal, would have had it’s limit very fast.

[/quote]But build aside. This behavior here, that you and the OP think is awesome, really doesn’t help the hate vs the profession.[/quote]

Vieux P.1238- What are you talking about? It was all about skill.. Have you watched the hole video? I did. It was a high skill mesmer(Obssession) vs low skill’s players (Mesmer haters) that took for ever to put him down. reason? cuz lack of skill counting on zerg kill’s & they dint work well together. But dont assumptions or hinting that the wining factor was all about the Mez patch..& nothing to do about skill’s. It was all about skill’s.

[/quote]

Pre patch that kind of PU mes would never rack the damage it does now nor the ridiculously long stealth that account for pretty much the whole vid success.

These results I see here, I see them every day with a lot of mesmers. They can’t all be ppl who are always better than all they face.

Many times I’ve seen entire groups trying to bring down such mesmers trolling without success and I know many in these groups were not bad players at all. The build is a lot more responsible to that success than you seem to be ready to admit is what I say. How long do you think you have to work on this build to get that kind of result?

ToaLux.6478:

Hi, Sirbeau! Could you please stop coming into the Mesmer forum, essentially demanding Mesmer nerfs, and then making backhanded comments about Mesmers and their builds?

I know you play zero staff ele and get destroyed by Mesmers among other classes, and that’s understandable. But if you’re going to hop on the Mesmer hatewagon—please do it in a less… abrasive way. Such as making a thread as to why Mesmer needs nerfs, mayhaps?

Anyway! I liked the video, and I hope those featured in the video got a kick out of it as well

I’m disappointed you find that funny Fila.

The thread you speak up was made many times by many ppl and suggestions provided. The problem is, no matter what, we have ppl like Denis here who never see any problem at all no matter what is shown or said to them. I suppose it slowly made me more and more abrasive over time … The troll vid here also doesn’t help to be honest.

unknownchaos.1425:

Denis pal. Let them be angry it is ok. I have thick skin lol.

Sirbuemirder , I have an account on that server. Sometimes I would sit in that teamspeak socially. Lots of times being bad mouthed while in the same channel. I wouldn’t say a word. One day I said , today is the day I get me some fun. So I broke out the recorder and had at it.

I wasn’t even hidden really , I was under the name obs lol. If ur offended then I’m sorry. It was fun nonetheless.

Having an account on that server too changes nothing. You were not playing for them at all here obviously.

denis.9487:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

denis.9487:

In that same breath this is what Mesmer is facing. Have you listened to it. Randomly saying rune usage saying he is hacking. Although they did understand the issue eventually like you said. We ran it one by one. We could have done this. But it shows the situation we mesmers are in because even though what you said Ross is common sense in the game where was it practiced. Instead we get forum posts of raging in chat about the opness of a Mesmer.

Yeah, let’s miss the point where despite admitting himself to be less than pro mesmer (which was also noted by fellow mesmers) the guy had ridiculous results for no efforts or risk on top of abusing what appears to be casual players in a social club. And of course there is the TS invasion… because he clearly needed it… poor poor mesmer victim.

You still wonder where all that mesmer hate come from Denis?

Yes I do actually. If this isn’t your taste of humor I’m sorry for that. But what did it show? People running in 1v1 and dying. He guarded a camp. He was slippery but why? No cc from opponents no clearing just button mashing and it is the Mesmer problem? Not even counting what was said already about the self revealing using chaos storm.

They were bad no question about it but it was still clear that it wasn’t the skill level that was getting the result here. Playing anything else, even with a lot more skill all things being equal, would have had it’s limit very fast.

But build aside. This behavior here, that you and the OP think is awesome, really doesn’t help the hate vs the profession.

denis.9487:

In that same breath this is what Mesmer is facing. Have you listened to it. Randomly saying rune usage saying he is hacking. Although they did understand the issue eventually like you said. We ran it one by one. We could have done this. But it shows the situation we mesmers are in because even though what you said Ross is common sense in the game where was it practiced. Instead we get forum posts of raging in chat about the opness of a Mesmer.

Yeah, let’s miss the point where despite admitting himself to be less than pro mesmer (which was also noted by fellow mesmers) the guy had ridiculous results for no efforts or risk on top of abusing what appears to be casual players in a social club. And of course there is the TS invasion… because he clearly needed it… poor poor mesmer victim.

You still wonder where all that mesmer hate come from Denis?

unknownchaos.1425:

Hello. I always heard about how bad I was talked about in "the other servers mapchat/teamspeak. I didn’t really care much. But I did wonder how true it was.

This video is me in the enemy teamspeak hidden. Hunting down the borderland defenders.

It’s honestly the funniest video I have ever made. I normally don’t watch my own videos after they are completed but this one I’ve watched 3 times. It never gets old.

So have at it. Call me bad, call me mean. I have my reasons for doing it. Or just have a laugh on me.

https://youtu.be/tdy9KZCjMtI

I have watched that vid and despite my immense sense of humor I didn’t laugh once. How can I laugh at something so gratuitous and low?

Honestly, if you have something to say in your defense, you said you had your reasons to be such an kitten, say it now because I’m about to report this post since you clearly violate their TS. This is clearly against ANET code of conduct and certainly mine…

BTW, an excellent example of PU mesmer in WvW nowadays with everything wrong there is with it…

What a sad image. People still siege spawn camp like that? Shame, shame, shame…