Guild Wars 2

Cynz.9437:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Cynz.9437:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Cynz.9437:

Raek.8504:

Cynz.9437:

Raek.8504:

Cynz.9437:

Raek.8504:

Cynz.9437:

I really wish ppl who complain about being stuck in lower divisions due to “bad teams” would post videos of their games. Something tells me their teams aren’t only reason they are losing.

Are you that guy who has been rushing into mid again, again and again solo vs 3 ? Somewhere mid diamond ? Sfxas or smth like that revenant ?

I wish people who say git gud make those kind of vids to get a good laugh at.

I play thief…….. i never played rev mid diamond

i do think that it would be helpful if people complaining about matchmaking would post videos, i am sure there is plenty of things they could improve

Strange, his id was Cynz xD

I did play rev for achieve but not mid diamond lol

And generally if i do end up in 1v3 situation regardless the class i play it is usually because that point was open, my team wiped and enemy zerged me. But surely continue to spit your salt, i may have vial for it.

Am i ? I was on winning team lol. You was a burden to your team sadly. Few guys from there wasn’t so bad. For “Mid diamond” sorry i was there at the moment i have no idea where you was. And no, you went mid, when your team tried to play side points u rushed into us and died. It was not open.

So advice to you, don’t make those kind of plays.

If you say i rushed into 3 people then i guess this is how it was. /eyesroll

@Fluffball.8307: i spent plenty of time in ruby. It is definitely hell in there but really mainly because you can’t lose tiers in emerald/sapphire so eventually everyone gets there (the good and the bad) and you have very mixed games. Anything below ruby is doable though, you can play around the bad team.

As far as ruby goes, probably best way to get out of it is to play ele and maybe duoq.

My point is i think people should really post videos of their matches. I am sure they could get couple good tips how they could have turned those games (so maybe they can do it next time).

Have you taken a good look at the reply ppl got when they posted a video? I’m the first one to admit it is true that in the videos many players had a good deal they could have done better and many participants did give constructive advises. HOWEVER, at what cost? They also had pretty lame and mean come backs and truly unfair BS coming along.

Even high ranking ppl have been quite shy about exposing themselves to critiques and you expect ppl to feel comfortable exposing themselves to such a clusterkitten and clearly not impartial audience? You know full well that nobody is perfect and that what the comment will all be about are the mistakes big or small that will suddenly take all the place. It’s very likely going to be a joke if this exercise is done on the forum. People inviting others to play with them in the game I believe them but ppl who ask for vid are at best suspicious to me. Specially if they themselves are a bit shy on what they ask of others.

Unlike customer support in game, forums mods are very serious about posters harassing others. You can just report them and i promise you they will see trolls banned really fast.

Does that make you feel better? Does that mean you will show us how you play in a video just to give us the example to follow?

I mean, you still have a dark alley in front of you… does knowing there are police officers somewhere that can apply the law make you go down that alley?

Would showing me playing in diamond really help people playing in emerald? And yes it actually would make me feel better. I know how strict mods are on this forums. I highly doubt majority of posters here are really that eager to sit out 2-4 weeks banns.

@Buffalo Bruiser.3567: most “pros” left lower divisions long time ago (couple smurfs aside).

Well, ppl learn mostly by watching and mimicking so why wouldn’t they get something to learn and understand out of your example?

Ithilwen.1529:

This is why players are angry. The playing field doesn’t even resemble level. Nor will it. There isn’t enough time in the season for the even match stage to emerge.

To be fair, if they wanted a more skill based ladder rather than a reward track it’s ok to not have a level playing field. Ideally you would stop advancing when you would have reached your current position assuming the metrics are all fine of course.

What is sad though is that some ppl have clearly benefited from advantageous conditions while others the opposite.

Also, the way ANET has promoted the event is in large part to blame since it lead to expectations by ppl they want to get into pvp that are conflicting with what these ppl were hoping for Sure it is still true that you will be able to have the possibility to get the backpack but they might have warned some ppl what they were in for. For a lot of players loosing eternally is not fun and I’m not sure they will want to put up with a season 3 like this.

Like I said before, ANET has a choice to make about who is their target audience for this.

Cynz.9437:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Cynz.9437:

Raek.8504:

Cynz.9437:

Raek.8504:

Cynz.9437:

Raek.8504:

Cynz.9437:

I really wish ppl who complain about being stuck in lower divisions due to “bad teams” would post videos of their games. Something tells me their teams aren’t only reason they are losing.

Are you that guy who has been rushing into mid again, again and again solo vs 3 ? Somewhere mid diamond ? Sfxas or smth like that revenant ?

I wish people who say git gud make those kind of vids to get a good laugh at.

I play thief…….. i never played rev mid diamond

i do think that it would be helpful if people complaining about matchmaking would post videos, i am sure there is plenty of things they could improve

Strange, his id was Cynz xD

I did play rev for achieve but not mid diamond lol

And generally if i do end up in 1v3 situation regardless the class i play it is usually because that point was open, my team wiped and enemy zerged me. But surely continue to spit your salt, i may have vial for it.

Am i ? I was on winning team lol. You was a burden to your team sadly. Few guys from there wasn’t so bad. For “Mid diamond” sorry i was there at the moment i have no idea where you was. And no, you went mid, when your team tried to play side points u rushed into us and died. It was not open.

So advice to you, don’t make those kind of plays.

If you say i rushed into 3 people then i guess this is how it was. /eyesroll

@Fluffball.8307: i spent plenty of time in ruby. It is definitely hell in there but really mainly because you can’t lose tiers in emerald/sapphire so eventually everyone gets there (the good and the bad) and you have very mixed games. Anything below ruby is doable though, you can play around the bad team.

As far as ruby goes, probably best way to get out of it is to play ele and maybe duoq.

My point is i think people should really post videos of their matches. I am sure they could get couple good tips how they could have turned those games (so maybe they can do it next time).

Have you taken a good look at the reply ppl got when they posted a video? I’m the first one to admit it is true that in the videos many players had a good deal they could have done better and many participants did give constructive advises. HOWEVER, at what cost? They also had pretty lame and mean come backs and truly unfair BS coming along.

Even high ranking ppl have been quite shy about exposing themselves to critiques and you expect ppl to feel comfortable exposing themselves to such a clusterkitten and clearly not impartial audience? You know full well that nobody is perfect and that what the comment will all be about are the mistakes big or small that will suddenly take all the place. It’s very likely going to be a joke if this exercise is done on the forum. People inviting others to play with them in the game I believe them but ppl who ask for vid are at best suspicious to me. Specially if they themselves are a bit shy on what they ask of others.

Unlike customer support in game, forums mods are very serious about posters harassing others. You can just report them and i promise you they will see trolls banned really fast.

Does that make you feel better? Does that mean you will show us how you play in a video just to give us the example to follow?

I mean, you still have a dark alley in front of you… does knowing there are police officers somewhere that can apply the law make you go down that alley?

Cynz.9437:

Raek.8504:

Cynz.9437:

Raek.8504:

Cynz.9437:

Raek.8504:

Cynz.9437:

I really wish ppl who complain about being stuck in lower divisions due to “bad teams” would post videos of their games. Something tells me their teams aren’t only reason they are losing.

Are you that guy who has been rushing into mid again, again and again solo vs 3 ? Somewhere mid diamond ? Sfxas or smth like that revenant ?

I wish people who say git gud make those kind of vids to get a good laugh at.

I play thief…….. i never played rev mid diamond

i do think that it would be helpful if people complaining about matchmaking would post videos, i am sure there is plenty of things they could improve

Strange, his id was Cynz xD

I did play rev for achieve but not mid diamond lol

And generally if i do end up in 1v3 situation regardless the class i play it is usually because that point was open, my team wiped and enemy zerged me. But surely continue to spit your salt, i may have vial for it.

Am i ? I was on winning team lol. You was a burden to your team sadly. Few guys from there wasn’t so bad. For “Mid diamond” sorry i was there at the moment i have no idea where you was. And no, you went mid, when your team tried to play side points u rushed into us and died. It was not open.

So advice to you, don’t make those kind of plays.

If you say i rushed into 3 people then i guess this is how it was. /eyesroll

@Fluffball.8307: i spent plenty of time in ruby. It is definitely hell in there but really mainly because you can’t lose tiers in emerald/sapphire so eventually everyone gets there (the good and the bad) and you have very mixed games. Anything below ruby is doable though, you can play around the bad team.

As far as ruby goes, probably best way to get out of it is to play ele and maybe duoq.

My point is i think people should really post videos of their matches. I am sure they could get couple good tips how they could have turned those games (so maybe they can do it next time).

Have you taken a good look at the reply ppl got when they posted a video? I’m the first one to admit it is true that in the videos many players had a good deal they could have done better and many participants did give constructive advises. HOWEVER, at what cost? They also had pretty lame and mean come backs and truly unfair BS coming along.

Even high ranking ppl have been quite shy about exposing themselves to critiques and you expect ppl to feel comfortable exposing themselves to such a clusterkitten and clearly not impartial audience? You know full well that nobody is perfect and that what the comment will all be about are the mistakes big or small that will suddenly take all the place. It’s very likely going to be a joke if this exercise is done on the forum. People inviting others to play with them in the game I believe them but ppl who ask for vid are at best suspicious to me. Specially if they themselves are a bit shy on what they ask of others.

Fluffball.8307:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Let’s ignore ruby? This is where MMR hell IS because you can grind it before that and will be the nexus of new players pairing with low/average experienced players.

Ok fair enough. Is anyone reading this at above a 50% win rate over the course of a few thousand games stuck on a massive losing streak in Ruby, and do you feel you belong in diamond/legendary?

I had around 55-60% win rate before season mostly not playing meta. I actually think ruby and diamond is where I belong if we transpose a Gaussian curve over the ladder to position myself as nowhere legendary but definitely above average.

That being said, my problem was never where I was ranked so much as who the system thought was of my level. I don’t mind being a ruby. I mind players having no clue also being ruby IF this is going to be something else than a reward track. Otherwise I don’t care at all but having fun matches, which we really do not have most of the time.

Casta.5697:

5 pages of pro advices from ‘amazing’ players who can single handedly cary 4 scrubs against 5 competent pvpers.. All these pro’s here, giving you advice on how to ‘git gut’ to advance in ruby are the part of the problem. And the problem is simple – artificially inflated mmr. This is where all the evil comes from and there is no fixing or improving it.

How does season 2 work: you win, your mmr goes up, you get matched with even better players, you win more, your mmr goes up even more. Even if you were carried to ruby by 4 competent pvpers all the way. You can be the worst player who belongs in amber/emerald, but season 2 system thinks you are a ruby quality pvper.

What happens when 50% of pvp population gets to ruby this way(may it be lucky winning streaks or pure grind) you get hundreds of people who have a skill of amber/emerald sitting in ruby waiting for winning streaks and other peeps to carry them even further(I’m pretty positive there are such ‘pvpers’ in diamond too) so when a decent, not a pro, lets say actual ruby skill pvper gets to ruby tier, he gets ‘partners’ of amber/emeralnd quality, because system reads their mmr in the same level as all the other actual ruby skill players and now you have a match were you have to carry 3/4 ambers to win againts 4/5 actual ruby players. This is where your blow out matches happen and this is why they are so frequent. These matches are unwinable and no amount of pro in you will win a match 1/2 vs 4/5.

So please stop giving your bullkitten advice on getting better and striving to be a better player than you are and open your eyes. This system is doomed and there is no way around it. All we can do is finish this season and hope anet will learn from this horrid mistake and improve in season 3.

Good luck and have fun(oh wait..)

This. So kittening much this.

Maybe if I’m not the one saying it ppl will start grasping what I meant. English is, after all, not my native language so…

Fluffball.8307:

I’m curious if anyone who is a better than average player is stuck in emerald, or if it’s a vocal minority of inexperienced players who think they’re better than they are (Dunning Kruger ).

Is there anyone who is in that situation that can somehow show the community that they are indeed a good player (perhaps community tournament wins, a 65% win ratio over thousands of games, YT highlights, etc.)?

Let’s ignore ruby because that is where most players are supposed to wind up.

Hopefully this isn’t seen as an attempt to belittle anyone, I honestly wonder if anyone has fallen through the cracks or if people are just upset they can’t climb higher than their skill and experience allows.

Let’s ignore ruby? This is where MMR hell IS because you can grind it before that and will be the nexus of new players pairing with low/average experienced players.

Celeras.4980:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

How is it irrelevant

Celeras.4980:

The problem youre citing would exist regardless of the matchmaking system. No matter how games are chosen, the beginning of ruby will have a very wide skill range for the reasons already discussed.

I think we are done here.

Nice dodge. I guess it means we are done indeed.

How is it irrelevant if I said I was in favor of removing safe guards? You are making no sense here nor providing any counter points to what I actually said.

Celeras.4980:

You’re confused because what you just said has absolutely nothing to do with your previous post. The matches in Ruby are more difficult because there is no way to go down prior to that point. Therefore the beginning of the rank has a ton of unworthy players who grinded through losses.

It has nothing to do with matchmaking, and changing it to “random” wouldnt change what you are complaining about. The only solution to that would be removing the checkpoints and allowing losers to continually fall backwards so their ladder placement is an accurate reflection of where they belong.

It HAS everything to do with what I said previously since ppl who complain being stuck in ruby do so BECAUSE of EXACTLY what you describe. My point was that my team was the difference not my opponent being better than me. And it look like I had a good strong basis to think so.

Also, btw, I already said several times that I was in favor of removing safe guards bcause it would prevent the system from feeding us ppl who clearly should no be where they are.

As for making team randomly I fail to see why anybody would be against that. It’s as fair as can be and would truly highlight individual skills instead of manufacturing it by polarizing MMR. If you are really good why do you need to get it even easier than the rest? At least accept to have the same conditions as all other players. Sometimes you will be paired with people better than you, sometimes with ppl equal to you and sometimes with ppl worse than you. But if you are the best, all others will always be worse than you and you will still reach the top anyway right? So, what is the problem since when you reach that top only players who have also made it out there like you will play with you? I truly do not see any solid argumentation going against that. I really smell a lot more like I want to keep my privileges.

Celeras.4980:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Me loosing because the other team was stronger is a fact but it is not a fact that the opposing team have stronger individuals then “I” nor that my teammates are my equal in all cases (which is basically what ppl complain about btw in case you had missed that the first 1k times).

Yes, I know. Everybody is the best player on their team. They themselves are better than the other team too, and its their teammates are the ones holding them down.

Ready for the irony? Thats their opinion. And it’s one that isn’t supported by the matchmaking algorithm or have any basis in fact. Yet you want me to argue it, in the same breath as criticizing me for giving opinions?

And here we are back to belittleland instead of logic land.

Yes, I was expecting you to argue it because ppl have argued about the algorithm having problems (ruby being the danger zone as it is) and MMR being a questionable measure of individual skill since birthed from teams which are 80% not you and almost never the same in the context of the current algorithm that make it easier to get a better MMR if it’s already high and worse if it’s bad.

I’ve said it yesterday but I’ll repeat it again, the matches I have to win when fighting in ruby are FAR harder to win (and poor ones at that) than when I play vs all diamonds because I pair with one diamond. The difference? The team I have that doesn’t need to be carried anywhere as hard or at all. The opponents are, all things being equal better since of higher caliber yet I get win streaks that I could not when stuck in ruby soloq?

… but the system has no flaw and I’m supposed to believe my 20% of power should trump the remaining 80% because BS logic?

My results are also facts and as you can see lead me to different conclusions.

Celeras.4980:

My matchup results are not an opinion.
The teammates I am matched with is not an opinion.
The fact that you lost because the other team was better is not an opinion.
The fact that you don’t deserve to climb rating if your opponent’s are generally better than you is not an opinion.

If you’re trying to argue that they are I suggest you read your own definition again.

Your match results are fact, but the conclusions you draw out of them are not.

Me loosing because the other team was stronger is a fact but it is not a fact that the opposing team have stronger individuals then “I” nor that my teammates are my equal in all cases (which is basically what ppl complain about btw in case you had missed that the first 1k times).

Therefore, it is certainly your opinion that all players complaining about the result they get are wrong since they might in fact be loosing because of all that is outside of them and “only” represent 80% of the games (a fact not an opinion).

Celeras.4980:

The MMR range for teammates is such a non issue it is hilarious to think people are still complaining about it. Teammates one game are consistently enemies the next. Stomp someone I feel is sub-par one game, win with them as a teammate one game later. It’s gravy.

Low MMR players need to come to terms with the reason that they always seem to lose. Sure, you might be in the hole and always losing to better teams. All that means is that there are still better teams at your pip range. Which means you don’t deserve to go up in ranking, and trying to grind your way through it will exaserbate your issues.

In the past two days I’ve had a 500-500 loss, a 500-499 loss, and a 500-496 win. Almost a month after I made this thread, and I still feel the matchmaking is doing its job spendidly.

Can I get some argumentation here instead of just your empty opinions? You were given a lot of arguments over several threads as to why you might want to consider others perspective but no matter what you simply dismiss it without ever tackling what was said to you.

Again, all I read from you is “I smoked all my life and never got cancer therefore cigarette doesn’t give cancer”. If only you could be happy about not having cancer instead of just kittening ppl who got it.

psizone.8437:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Yeah but you always look weird when you start dancing in the middle of a match. Some people are so edgy that they believe you are not taking the match seriously because you did that…

It can be explained if people in your team don’t know the bug. I’m sure a little misunderstanding would be appreciated more than a team mate stuck in place the whole match.

I agree, It’s just really awkward is all.

Kuya.6495:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Kuya.6495:

I wonder if all the people complaining here have posted gameplay vids.

Why would we? So we could have some self proclaimed"pro" that we need to " get good" and “carry more” please. Take the arrogance somewhere else.

There’s been at least two occasions that i’ve seen in which players, much like you, claimed they were being paired with terrible teammates and that matchmaking was screwing them over only to see the video and notice that the OP is actually bad too (in one case, the OP was actually the one being carried). Yet the OP was convinced everyone else was kitten and he wasn’t.

Maybe a lot of people complaining about their matches have a serious case of over inflated sense of competence?

And that means all ppl complaining have no reason to? How do you explain me getting more wins and better matches (win or loose) today by playing against higher ranked players just because we got a diamond in our team? Our team was almost always of lower rank than the opponent and yet I got my first win streak in days. Not being fed garbage players apparently did a good enough difference for me.

You say maybe a lot who are complaining have a serious case of over inflated sense of competence? I’m seriously starting to thin that maybe a lot of higher rank players also have that problem. None of the diamond I faced today, team or individual, made me say I had no business being there. Quite the opposite. The matches I get in soloq ruby are a lot harder to win than any of those I got today facing all diamonds. And I say that despite having lost pretty sadly some of the matches because it was obvious that it was because we made mistake we could have avoided as opposed to the utter feeling of powerlessness I get in ruby soloq.

Why don’t you post vids of how great you are? Maybe we could lean something from you?

Yeah but you always look weird when you start dancing in the middle of a match. Some people are so edgy that they believe you are not taking the match seriously because you did that…

Agemnon.4608:

But why should they even get the backpack without earning it with their skill?

We all know people want the backback to look like great PvP’ers but if you aren’t then why should you have it? Whenever we lose it is always our fault, for we could always have done something better. True mastery of the self requires of us to weed out these mistakes.

It is all cute an good to think like that, and I’m all for always striving to do better and improving but there are limits. If you think you can become so good that you can tell the 4 others they can just sit and watch you I think you need to see a doctor. And if you could win all by yourself, somehow, I would investigate what kind of supreme loosers you were facing. We aren’t in some bullkitten Hollywood movies kitten .

Fun fact aside, I won more matches today playing vs all diamonds by pairing with just another diamond than I could by soloquing vs bad rubies. Our teams made several bad mistakes and we lost some pretty sad matches but overall it was FAR easier and far better matches than what I’m served when I soloq in ruby. Absolutely Z-E-R-O comparisons whatsoever. To those that think the system work and that there is no loopholes for low and aveage MMR pl in ruby I say stop smoking weed now.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

New players are not always “new players”. In fact, many new accounts are alt accounts purchased by veteran high MMR players. If new accounts all started with the lowest possible MMR, do you have any idea how easy it would be to exploit the league leaderboards with a team of 5 alt accounts being played by veteran players, who are ripping through their first 30 games played with wins that look like 500-0, 500-20? They’d get placed in the top 10 without ever needing to face a team that was anywhere even near their actual skill level.

Due to the reality of such match manipulation, placing new accounts with an average MMR is the only way to go.

I understand why they do it. I however see a big problem when its really new players that are considered equal to you and you have 1k+ matches more than them.

Jelzouki.4128:

Thank you Evan for finally telling these casuals that the reason they are in losing streaks in emerald is because they need to IMPROVE SKILL. You can only climb so much to the point where you need to fix your own gameplay instead of whining. I consider myself to be above average as I almost made it into season pro league, and am legendary rank which sort of supports what I say next. Legendary division feels a lot better this season because the games are closer, the people are better, and unfortunately the queues are longer but its all worth it because I know the people in legendary didn’t have to go on a grind fest. Most of the people I know in legendary didn’t lose a single match until they hit ruby. It’s very simple to climb you just need to IMPROVE your gameplay. /caps typing from phone sorry for grammar

Wait, wait ,wait… you are an above average player that has legendary rank and you see no problem with that knowing legendary is supposed to be were your top percentile is supposed to end-up in a purely skill based system? As in, not “above average ppl” should be there. You sure the system works if legendary include above average players like you instead of putting them in ruby where above average actually would put someone using a normal curve?

I think those are all good ideas. I will probably never unlock a legendary this way but I really don’t care since they are available otherwise so it is only fair for pvp only ppl to get that.

Ayrilana.1396:

Group up with similarly skilled players or spend the first day speeding through the divisions to outpace the casuals and those who may not be as skilled. The longer you wait, the more likely you are to run into a wall.

Not everyone can reliably do that though.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Read patch notes about how the MMR algorithm works.

I’d also like to add that the MMR algorithm itself doesn’t possess anything wrong in it’s programming. The problems all stem from a lack of programming. The MMR algorithm does not identify current meta build aspects of the game. Thus it does not consider the difference in power/effectiveness between one build and another. This is what is largely responsible for bad match making and why matches often feel “like a gamble” concerning who and what you get in your team. It may be placing similar MMRs with similar MMRs but it has no recognition within it’s programming to see that it is putting Team A “Warrior, Warrior, DH, Thief, Mesmer” against Team B “Revenant, Revenant, Tempest, Reaper, Scrapper”.

The MMR algorithm is working but it needs to be able to sight in more factors such as the above example if they ever want it to do a truly good job of adjucating match placements. That and division should have nothing to do with match placement as grinding rewards division, not skill. Actual MMR should have everything to do with match placement.

You see no problem with new players given average MMR?

Dirtyrascal.1023:

Whatever is done for season 3 I want to see this:

Hard Reset Everyone’s MMR at the beginning of the season.

Specially if they insist on making teams based on MMR. I won’t even consider trying S3 if they do not reset it and still make teams the way they do it now. Not going to waste my time.

Can we play with EU players?

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Honesty, what needs to happen is just 1 big indefinite devision with checkpoints. When you reach the pip checkpoint, your display badge changes.
If you lose pips and fall below that checkpoint, your badge will revert to the old one.

No more hard barriers.

You can still have the tiers where matchmaking attempts to match certain tier players but just have one big floating division.

Have every person start somewhere around 10-20% of the pips. Then you can actually fall initially or climb.

Agree completely with this. Safe guards are what is messing up the ladder and makes it a reward track.

That way we could also have a MM that randomly put players in teams and let the central theorem limit do it’s job. It would be fairer and would not favor or cripple ppl even before the match starts.

ResJudicator.7916:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

ResJudicator.7916:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

ResJudicator.7916:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

ResJudicator.7916:

Jourdelune.7456:

Ryan.9387:

Disclaimer – This is based on my understanding of the ranked matchmaking system.

Consider these two matchmaking points

1 – A match will be made between players within a similar pip range
2 – These 10 players will be grouped based on their MMR

Because of point 2, there will in effect be an “A Team” and a “B Team” in every match.

The official reasoning for this is so good players will advance through the ladder quickly.

However, if a player loses a large number of games such that his MMR declines below the average for his pip range, he will always be grouped with the “B Team”.

In most games losing matches results in that player facing weaker opponents so he has an even match up. In the current league system there are points where you cannot be matched with weaker opponents (division thresholds etc).

What happens at this point is the player in question always faces a stronger team with a weaker one because his lower MMR. If the range of player skill is significant in a specific pip zone, the gap between the A and B teams will be large on average and will result in constant losses due to the matchmaking system. Every loss will lower this player’s MMR, and the lower MMR will result in even worse matchups, up until they are essentially unwinnable. This is the MMR hole.

I feel this is a fundamental flaw in the system and is contributing the the consistent one sided match ups I see in my progression through the leagues.

Exactly Shadow Shooter.

The system make it so, that the top 30% will have it easier if they SOLOQ than TeamQ the League.

To counter this FLAW they need to help low MMR players to get a way to raise their MMR.

So, after a 3 streak lost, they should put 1 low MMR with 4 high MMR players, so they can carry his MMR a bit.

But it would not be fair.

MMR vs MMR is the only way to let players improve their MMR. Sometime they wins, sometime they loose and the MMR will adapt. Actually, they can’t because they are always put in the B team for that queue time.

The only way you’ll always be in the B team is if you’re MMR is at the bottom of the barrel for the division/tier/pip-range that you’re in. If your MMR is anywhere close to average for your division/tier/pip-range, then sometimes you’ll be on the B team, and sometimes you’ll be on the A team. If you win more than you lose, then over time your MMR will increase.

The MMR hole happens when you lose even the close matches and the matches you were expected to win. It could also happen if you started the season with terrible MMR, but this just means that you repeatedly lost evenly matched games in Season 1 (which tried to balance the MMRs of both teams for a ~50% winrate).

That is not true since new players are awarded average MMR from the get go. Average MMR is not meaning much in that context. I used to have a win/loose ratio of around 55-60% before season 2 while playing non-meta and now it’s more like 45% while playing meta. And the more I loose the more are the probability I will loose regardless of my skill. I too often get players that clearly do not have enough experience in the game mode but made it this far.

If I play unranked or in a team of people with my skill level my win ratio goes up immediately. It’s to the point it’s obvious and can’t reasonably be attributed to bad luck. And the deeper you go in the hole the harder it gets to climb out. And the opposite is also true, Why did they wanted to cheese the match making algorithm this way is beyond me.

I think you’re describing what I just explained. You’re currently in a division/tier/pip-range where the average player is better than you. As a result, whichever team you’re on is likely going to lose more often than win. This isn’t bad luck, it’s statistics.

Since you can’t drop divisions/tiers, you’re stuck waiting for the average skill level of your division/tier to drop. This will happen over time because the higher-skilled players will move out of your pip-range (so you won’t see them anymore), and the ones left behind will be similarly situated to you. Once that happens (if it hasn’t already), you should be getting “fair” matchups, which you will need to win to improve your MMR.

As to your experience in Unranked, I believe Unranked tries to match the teams so that both teams have similar MMR. This means that your bad MMR is being balanced out by having better players on your team, who are then able to carry you to victory. So it makes sense that your winrate in Unranked is going to be higher.

With all due respect, I must insist on my disagreeing with you and your reasoning. If I was sub average in my division I would most often describe the enemy as stronger than me as the reason we loose and I would not bother posting here since I’d have no problem with better players beating me.

It’s really obvious to anybody looking into several of the matches that the problem has more to do with our team than it has to do with the opponent. I even had opponents that would sometimes pm me after a match to tell me they felt sorry for me.

Your theory of good players eventually leaving is absurd to me since I’ll still be stuck with baddies till the season end anyway no matter what specifically BECAUSE they can’t loose pips before ruby and none of us who are stuck together eternally can get win streaks. And by the time the so called “better players” are gone, several of which I know and have played with, my MMR will have suffered a lot “proving” that I belong in the trash resulting in getting yet more garbage which will likely result in garbage results.

Look, I’m glad you didn’t had to live through this but I’m a bit tired of your kind of ppl that simply refuse to hear what is said to them and insist on overwriting stuff they have no idea of since they were not there and are obviously not on the receiving end of the phenomenon. I get it that you do not want ppl to cheapen your glory, and it’s not my goal, but…

EDIT: I also want to point out that I have proposed SEVERAL times in several threads for you geniuses loud mouths that I’m willing to let ppl supervised by ANET play on my account to see what I have to play with and what you have to carry. I mean, what more can I do?

Helseth actually asked A.net if he could play using your account. A.net said no.

The next best thing is for you to post several videos of your gameplay so people can see what you’re going through. The problem with simply stating that your team is holding you back is that we’ve all seen (and been teamed with) players who think they’re carrying their team when they’re not even fulfilling their roles.

He asked for MY account? I’m giving all legal go and agreement ANET need for this to happen.

As for me posting vid of my matches I’m not outright against even if I’m not rigged for it ATM. However, let’s be honest a second here, I trust your fairness on the matter as much as I would Donald Trump. If I post only one vid I’ll be accused of cherry picking, which is legit, and if I posts several at which point will it be enough to make you see that as imperfect as I can be my teammate are often the problem, while the enemy isn’t really stronger than me at all.

It is all good and fair to say you have heard many say they were carrying when they were not but it doesn’t make the facts and arguments posted as to what was problematic go away. Your attitude is just to dismiss all that you don’t like without proofs and put everything back on the players. It is all I see from your kind so far. And that despite players reaching higher level clearly admitting something was suspicious but on the other side of the same medal.

That’s the thing — you haven’t posted any facts. Facts would be videos that you post, which other people could then view and evaluate. Refusing to provide videos because you think they won’t convince the other side is like saying “I have super secret evidence proving I’m right but I won’t share it with anyone.”

Besides, you shouldn’t have to worry about whether I’m fair because my opinion on the matter is irrelevant. The point of posting the videos is (presumably) to show the Devs what you’re going through. What I think of the videos is not going to affect how the devs change things for Season 3.

There is nothing “super secret” about the matter at this point. I think I can say I’m not alone to have witnessed what I described. I’m willing to let my account be played so the only different variable in the equation would be the player.

My reluctance to download, install, and record several games I play in the context of this forum has nothing to do with me wanting to keep anything secret or I wouldn’t be willing to let others play my account. However, I’ve seen enough such threads to know how this is going to be twisted and that is something nobody can hardly hold against me.

Anyway, if it’s for ANET dev then anytime they want they can have access to my account to test it. I’m willing and will sign whatever consent they want. I kinda have my dose of people arguing in bad faith is my problem. If you can’t see where there is a danger in the current system for people of average and low MMR knowing what is public knowledge it has more to do with you not wanting to than me making stuff up.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

For me the most obvious solution is to remove any of the so called ladder safe guards. This way, no new/inexperienced players with average and low MMR will end-up in higher divisions with legit rubies while being considered “equal”.

this is a legitimate concern, however none of my solutions deal with that so im not sure why youre trying to argue with me. all of my solutions deal only with repetitive losses, not wins.

I wasn’t trying to argue. I merely sought to add more.

ResJudicator.7916:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

ResJudicator.7916:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

ResJudicator.7916:

Jourdelune.7456:

Ryan.9387:

Disclaimer – This is based on my understanding of the ranked matchmaking system.

Consider these two matchmaking points

1 – A match will be made between players within a similar pip range
2 – These 10 players will be grouped based on their MMR

Because of point 2, there will in effect be an “A Team” and a “B Team” in every match.

The official reasoning for this is so good players will advance through the ladder quickly.

However, if a player loses a large number of games such that his MMR declines below the average for his pip range, he will always be grouped with the “B Team”.

In most games losing matches results in that player facing weaker opponents so he has an even match up. In the current league system there are points where you cannot be matched with weaker opponents (division thresholds etc).

What happens at this point is the player in question always faces a stronger team with a weaker one because his lower MMR. If the range of player skill is significant in a specific pip zone, the gap between the A and B teams will be large on average and will result in constant losses due to the matchmaking system. Every loss will lower this player’s MMR, and the lower MMR will result in even worse matchups, up until they are essentially unwinnable. This is the MMR hole.

I feel this is a fundamental flaw in the system and is contributing the the consistent one sided match ups I see in my progression through the leagues.

Exactly Shadow Shooter.

The system make it so, that the top 30% will have it easier if they SOLOQ than TeamQ the League.

To counter this FLAW they need to help low MMR players to get a way to raise their MMR.

So, after a 3 streak lost, they should put 1 low MMR with 4 high MMR players, so they can carry his MMR a bit.

But it would not be fair.

MMR vs MMR is the only way to let players improve their MMR. Sometime they wins, sometime they loose and the MMR will adapt. Actually, they can’t because they are always put in the B team for that queue time.

The only way you’ll always be in the B team is if you’re MMR is at the bottom of the barrel for the division/tier/pip-range that you’re in. If your MMR is anywhere close to average for your division/tier/pip-range, then sometimes you’ll be on the B team, and sometimes you’ll be on the A team. If you win more than you lose, then over time your MMR will increase.

The MMR hole happens when you lose even the close matches and the matches you were expected to win. It could also happen if you started the season with terrible MMR, but this just means that you repeatedly lost evenly matched games in Season 1 (which tried to balance the MMRs of both teams for a ~50% winrate).

That is not true since new players are awarded average MMR from the get go. Average MMR is not meaning much in that context. I used to have a win/loose ratio of around 55-60% before season 2 while playing non-meta and now it’s more like 45% while playing meta. And the more I loose the more are the probability I will loose regardless of my skill. I too often get players that clearly do not have enough experience in the game mode but made it this far.

If I play unranked or in a team of people with my skill level my win ratio goes up immediately. It’s to the point it’s obvious and can’t reasonably be attributed to bad luck. And the deeper you go in the hole the harder it gets to climb out. And the opposite is also true, Why did they wanted to cheese the match making algorithm this way is beyond me.

I think you’re describing what I just explained. You’re currently in a division/tier/pip-range where the average player is better than you. As a result, whichever team you’re on is likely going to lose more often than win. This isn’t bad luck, it’s statistics.

Since you can’t drop divisions/tiers, you’re stuck waiting for the average skill level of your division/tier to drop. This will happen over time because the higher-skilled players will move out of your pip-range (so you won’t see them anymore), and the ones left behind will be similarly situated to you. Once that happens (if it hasn’t already), you should be getting “fair” matchups, which you will need to win to improve your MMR.

As to your experience in Unranked, I believe Unranked tries to match the teams so that both teams have similar MMR. This means that your bad MMR is being balanced out by having better players on your team, who are then able to carry you to victory. So it makes sense that your winrate in Unranked is going to be higher.

With all due respect, I must insist on my disagreeing with you and your reasoning. If I was sub average in my division I would most often describe the enemy as stronger than me as the reason we loose and I would not bother posting here since I’d have no problem with better players beating me.

It’s really obvious to anybody looking into several of the matches that the problem has more to do with our team than it has to do with the opponent. I even had opponents that would sometimes pm me after a match to tell me they felt sorry for me.

Your theory of good players eventually leaving is absurd to me since I’ll still be stuck with baddies till the season end anyway no matter what specifically BECAUSE they can’t loose pips before ruby and none of us who are stuck together eternally can get win streaks. And by the time the so called “better players” are gone, several of which I know and have played with, my MMR will have suffered a lot “proving” that I belong in the trash resulting in getting yet more garbage which will likely result in garbage results.

Look, I’m glad you didn’t had to live through this but I’m a bit tired of your kind of ppl that simply refuse to hear what is said to them and insist on overwriting stuff they have no idea of since they were not there and are obviously not on the receiving end of the phenomenon. I get it that you do not want ppl to cheapen your glory, and it’s not my goal, but…

EDIT: I also want to point out that I have proposed SEVERAL times in several threads for you geniuses loud mouths that I’m willing to let ppl supervised by ANET play on my account to see what I have to play with and what you have to carry. I mean, what more can I do?

Helseth actually asked A.net if he could play using your account. A.net said no.

The next best thing is for you to post several videos of your gameplay so people can see what you’re going through. The problem with simply stating that your team is holding you back is that we’ve all seen (and been teamed with) players who think they’re carrying their team when they’re not even fulfilling their roles.

He asked for MY account? I’m giving all legal go and agreement ANET need for this to happen.

As for me posting vid of my matches I’m not outright against even if I’m not rigged for it ATM. However, let’s be honest a second here, I trust your fairness on the matter as much as I would Donald Trump. If I post only one vid I’ll be accused of cherry picking, which is legit, and if I posts several at which point will it be enough to make you see that as imperfect as I can be my teammate are often the problem, while the enemy isn’t really stronger than me at all.

It is all good and fair to say you have heard many say they were carrying when they were not but it doesn’t make the facts and arguments posted as to what was problematic go away. Your attitude is just to dismiss all that you don’t like without proofs and put everything back on the players. It is all I see from your kind so far. And that despite players reaching higher level clearly admitting something was suspicious but on the other side of the same medal.

Stand The Wall.6987:

some possible solutions:
-if you lose by 100 points or less, you dont lose a pip.
-if you lose by 100 points or more, you gain a staggered loss. the second staggered loss will result in a pip. you cannot regain a staggered loss until you win (twice?) again.
-you also gain a staggered loss if one of your team mates d/c’s, one of your team mates is afk for (1/4?) or more of the total match time, if you are teamed with 2 or more of players in a lower division then you, and after (5?) losses.

For me the most obvious solution is to remove any of the so called ladder safe guards. This way, no new/inexperienced players with average and low MMR will end-up in higher divisions with legit rubies while being considered “equal”. If they are low skill they should remain in lower divisions not be guaranteed to reach upper average division (ruby) if they grind for it or are lucky on team draws.

As it is, lower ruby can be hell on Tyria for ppl whose MMR his average or lower. Removing the safe guards would help prevent this cluster kitten.

Making teams randomly within a pip range would also avoid the system cheesing the results favorably or unfavorably. I’m not saying make ppl fight other of their caliber only like past season. I say, random. Let the central limit theorem do it’s job. If you are better and therefore capable of carrying greater weight you will all things being equal climb faster while the less skillful will remain stuck behind. Stop pampering high MMR people while crippling low ones. The ladder will only get more prestige and legitimacy out of this while being fairer.

ResJudicator.7916:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

ResJudicator.7916:

Jourdelune.7456:

Ryan.9387:

Disclaimer – This is based on my understanding of the ranked matchmaking system.

Consider these two matchmaking points

1 – A match will be made between players within a similar pip range
2 – These 10 players will be grouped based on their MMR

Because of point 2, there will in effect be an “A Team” and a “B Team” in every match.

The official reasoning for this is so good players will advance through the ladder quickly.

However, if a player loses a large number of games such that his MMR declines below the average for his pip range, he will always be grouped with the “B Team”.

In most games losing matches results in that player facing weaker opponents so he has an even match up. In the current league system there are points where you cannot be matched with weaker opponents (division thresholds etc).

What happens at this point is the player in question always faces a stronger team with a weaker one because his lower MMR. If the range of player skill is significant in a specific pip zone, the gap between the A and B teams will be large on average and will result in constant losses due to the matchmaking system. Every loss will lower this player’s MMR, and the lower MMR will result in even worse matchups, up until they are essentially unwinnable. This is the MMR hole.

I feel this is a fundamental flaw in the system and is contributing the the consistent one sided match ups I see in my progression through the leagues.

Exactly Shadow Shooter.

The system make it so, that the top 30% will have it easier if they SOLOQ than TeamQ the League.

To counter this FLAW they need to help low MMR players to get a way to raise their MMR.

So, after a 3 streak lost, they should put 1 low MMR with 4 high MMR players, so they can carry his MMR a bit.

But it would not be fair.

MMR vs MMR is the only way to let players improve their MMR. Sometime they wins, sometime they loose and the MMR will adapt. Actually, they can’t because they are always put in the B team for that queue time.

The only way you’ll always be in the B team is if you’re MMR is at the bottom of the barrel for the division/tier/pip-range that you’re in. If your MMR is anywhere close to average for your division/tier/pip-range, then sometimes you’ll be on the B team, and sometimes you’ll be on the A team. If you win more than you lose, then over time your MMR will increase.

The MMR hole happens when you lose even the close matches and the matches you were expected to win. It could also happen if you started the season with terrible MMR, but this just means that you repeatedly lost evenly matched games in Season 1 (which tried to balance the MMRs of both teams for a ~50% winrate).

That is not true since new players are awarded average MMR from the get go. Average MMR is not meaning much in that context. I used to have a win/loose ratio of around 55-60% before season 2 while playing non-meta and now it’s more like 45% while playing meta. And the more I loose the more are the probability I will loose regardless of my skill. I too often get players that clearly do not have enough experience in the game mode but made it this far.

If I play unranked or in a team of people with my skill level my win ratio goes up immediately. It’s to the point it’s obvious and can’t reasonably be attributed to bad luck. And the deeper you go in the hole the harder it gets to climb out. And the opposite is also true, Why did they wanted to cheese the match making algorithm this way is beyond me.

I think you’re describing what I just explained. You’re currently in a division/tier/pip-range where the average player is better than you. As a result, whichever team you’re on is likely going to lose more often than win. This isn’t bad luck, it’s statistics.

Since you can’t drop divisions/tiers, you’re stuck waiting for the average skill level of your division/tier to drop. This will happen over time because the higher-skilled players will move out of your pip-range (so you won’t see them anymore), and the ones left behind will be similarly situated to you. Once that happens (if it hasn’t already), you should be getting “fair” matchups, which you will need to win to improve your MMR.

As to your experience in Unranked, I believe Unranked tries to match the teams so that both teams have similar MMR. This means that your bad MMR is being balanced out by having better players on your team, who are then able to carry you to victory. So it makes sense that your winrate in Unranked is going to be higher.

With all due respect, I must insist on my disagreeing with you and your reasoning. If I was sub average in my division I would most often describe the enemy as stronger than me as the reason we loose and I would not bother posting here since I’d have no problem with better players beating me.

It’s really obvious to anybody looking into several of the matches that the problem has more to do with our team than it has to do with the opponent. I even had opponents that would sometimes pm me after a match to tell me they felt sorry for me.

Your theory of good players eventually leaving is absurd to me since I’ll still be stuck with baddies till the season end anyway no matter what specifically BECAUSE they can’t loose pips before ruby and none of us who are stuck together eternally can get win streaks. And by the time the so called “better players” are gone, several of which I know and have played with, my MMR will have suffered a lot “proving” that I belong in the trash resulting in getting yet more garbage which will likely result in garbage results.

Look, I’m glad you didn’t had to live through this but I’m a bit tired of your kind of ppl that simply refuse to hear what is said to them and insist on overwriting stuff they have no idea of since they were not there and are obviously not on the receiving end of the phenomenon. I get it that you do not want ppl to cheapen your glory, and it’s not my goal, but…

EDIT: I also want to point out that I have proposed SEVERAL times in several threads for you geniuses loud mouths that I’m willing to let ppl supervised by ANET play on my account to see what I have to play with and what you have to carry. I mean, what more can I do?

brannigan.9831:

Two things. First, you are vastly exaggerating how fast your MMR could change significantly. If you are somone who is pretty experienced its going to take a LOT of winning or losing to budge your MMR in a meaningful way positively or negatively. Secondly, I do not believe your MMR takes a hit for losing to players with higher MMR then you have. Basically there is no MMR hole.

Sorry but I say things as there are. That you believe it or not is going to be up to you. When looking at the numbers of matches played BEFORE season 2 I had more wins than losses (about 55%). No, the situation has reversed (45%). I’m not speaking of MMR here, but merely of the # of wins you can see compared to the # of matches you have played.

ResJudicator.7916:

Jourdelune.7456:

Ryan.9387:

Disclaimer – This is based on my understanding of the ranked matchmaking system.

Consider these two matchmaking points

1 – A match will be made between players within a similar pip range
2 – These 10 players will be grouped based on their MMR

Because of point 2, there will in effect be an “A Team” and a “B Team” in every match.

The official reasoning for this is so good players will advance through the ladder quickly.

However, if a player loses a large number of games such that his MMR declines below the average for his pip range, he will always be grouped with the “B Team”.

In most games losing matches results in that player facing weaker opponents so he has an even match up. In the current league system there are points where you cannot be matched with weaker opponents (division thresholds etc).

What happens at this point is the player in question always faces a stronger team with a weaker one because his lower MMR. If the range of player skill is significant in a specific pip zone, the gap between the A and B teams will be large on average and will result in constant losses due to the matchmaking system. Every loss will lower this player’s MMR, and the lower MMR will result in even worse matchups, up until they are essentially unwinnable. This is the MMR hole.

I feel this is a fundamental flaw in the system and is contributing the the consistent one sided match ups I see in my progression through the leagues.

Exactly Shadow Shooter.

The system make it so, that the top 30% will have it easier if they SOLOQ than TeamQ the League.

To counter this FLAW they need to help low MMR players to get a way to raise their MMR.

So, after a 3 streak lost, they should put 1 low MMR with 4 high MMR players, so they can carry his MMR a bit.

But it would not be fair.

MMR vs MMR is the only way to let players improve their MMR. Sometime they wins, sometime they loose and the MMR will adapt. Actually, they can’t because they are always put in the B team for that queue time.

The only way you’ll always be in the B team is if you’re MMR is at the bottom of the barrel for the division/tier/pip-range that you’re in. If your MMR is anywhere close to average for your division/tier/pip-range, then sometimes you’ll be on the B team, and sometimes you’ll be on the A team. If you win more than you lose, then over time your MMR will increase.

The MMR hole happens when you lose even the close matches and the matches you were expected to win. It could also happen if you started the season with terrible MMR, but this just means that you repeatedly lost evenly matched games in Season 1 (which tried to balance the MMRs of both teams for a ~50% winrate).

That is not true since new players are awarded average MMR from the get go. Average MMR is not meaning much in that context. I used to have a win/loose ratio of around 55-60% before season 2 while playing non-meta and now it’s more like 45% while playing meta. And the more I loose the more are the probability I will loose regardless of my skill. I too often get players that clearly do not have enough experience in the game mode but made it this far.

If I play unranked or in a team of people with my skill level my win ratio goes up immediately. It’s to the point it’s obvious and can’t reasonably be attributed to bad luck. And the deeper you go in the hole the harder it gets to climb out. And the opposite is also true, Why did they wanted to cheese the match making algorithm this way is beyond me.

Browrain.7346:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Do I deserve to be legendary? Not sure.

You don’t

Did we play together or you just took the opportunity to poke me in a friendly manner?

Dahkeus.8243:

“This one match, I had teammates that played badly and since the enemy team never makes mistakes, I am the clear victim of a system that doesn’t recognize how much of a pro I really am, so now I’m going to make several threads in the PvP forums to throw a fit over this since raging in chat just wasn’t enough.”

To be clear, if there was no significant problem outside of what players feel are in their control I doubt there would be that much more thread like this than their otherwise usually are.

I get that for you it’s always on the individual no matter what but reality is there is a problem with the current system that can be extremely frustrating for a good chunk of the player base. No, not all who complain do so for equally legit reasons but to brush aside all like you do is plain dishonest and unreasonable.

Just be glad you aren’t experiencing what make ppl do these threads instead of whining about them appearing.

Rap Tiger.1257:

The whole problem Evan is not the system, most people who complain system is because actually being placed with weaker classes and other stronger, e.g. a group having reapers and scrappers and other 2 warrior 2 thief, mesmer .

In logic the team that has more chance of winning is reaper and scrappers who are the strongest classes, I believe the problem is more balanced than the system itself ….. I prefer the system now even that is stuck in ruby ..

Because I know that the total fault of bad players and others who leaves the pve to pvp go without at least train in unranked or hot join.

If you do a really good balance, we see several classes mixed in the game and not an amount of 5 reapers or 4 scrappers and reaper.

As for those who complain about the current system, learn to play, train hard and learn to play together …. learn to put less blame on the system and more blame yourself or players on your team.

It’s amazing how your argumentation regarding the system not being a significant problem at all is rather “light”…

ronpierce.2760:

This is very simple, its not a reward track. It’s a rank system, and technically works. Sapphire/Ruby should have your most average players with a close-to 50% win rate in that division, making it hard to work out of, but not fall too far back, too.

PVErs need to get out of PVP, and ANet need to hurry up with the Legendary Fractal Back piece already, so people don’t feel so entitled to be in PVP for their PVE item. The prestige needs to stay, PVErs need to have a reason to not be in PVP for an item, it’s really as simple as that.

As it is, it is still in large part still a reward track. It is also largely sold as an event targeting everybody. A choice must be made.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

Then why did you not remove the “can’t loose tier” aspect of the ladder and gave average MMR to new players? This, right there is a major problem for what you say you wanted to do. You can’t have this thing be family friendly and elitist at the same time. Pick one and stick with it is my advice.

Ofc anybody can climb to ruby even if they otherwise should not because of all the previous safe guards. And the poor average and low MMR ppl who are legit rubies that are eternally fed these new player and non-legit rubies because the system see them as equally skillful (what a joke) are truly living hell this season while high MMR people are fed near exceptional team conditions with near no carrying to do. Well, ofc they will win if they face lower MMR people in their pip range but it will have a LOT to do with how pampered they were when the team was made and how the opponents might have been trolled by the engine and not that much because the individuals were good or bad in each respective teams.

I’m sorry Evan but I truly hope next season the MM will make teams differently. I’m all for something more prestigious and skill based but this is not it at all and on top of it it is very frustrating for a good deal of ppl.

Remove the “can’t loose pips and tier” next season so the low skill players remain low and not accumulating in ruby to troll higher level players and never EVER, give average MMR to new players. Also, I think making teams using MMR while picking opponents within pip range and not MMR was a big mistake. All you did this season was polarize your MMR by making sure what was strong easily get stronger and what was not easily get weaker (and that regardless of actual performances which is truly sad).

I know it is not easy but IMO you have a choice to make regarding who is your target player base in that kind of event.

Mightybird.6034:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I get what you say but at the same time it’s really frustrating to be stuck on 1 build per profession like that. This for me is more painful than loosing. I wish there was a better balance so more could be as viable.

not really though. For instance once you understand things you can change it up multiple ways.

(dont quote me on this not being super precise, not in game) It’d be a long post but reaper can go spite or curses. Sig build corruption or master of corruption or even a shout build is pretty decent. Personally I like the current meta build but there are quite a few variations even within it. Like you can take the 50% crit grandmaster and take the chill on crit or you can go the fire on 1/reduce shout cds, etc.

Was probably semi gibberish, but you can change heal skills, 2-3 utility skills, 1 entire trait line, several traits within it.

All varies depending on what I might be facing as well. Condi dmg vs power dmg. If I need more survival etc.

So yea..

Revs have at least two viable specs as well (ret vs innvocation) one more for bruiser one more for dmg.

Start with the meta. Understand why its good, strengths and weaknesses. Then find out the variations you can make to it.

Scrapper I don’t play but researched. Also has several variations depending on if its facing power dmg vs condi dmg. It even changes its amulet (pal vs mara)

Yes, ofc, I also play with variants but the variants do not change your role. For example, as an ele I’m still more or less stuck in the shoes of a healbot in this meta whther I play staff or d/f and tweak some traits. It’s just more of the same.

DaShi.1368:

But a single really bad player can tank a team. The new thing I’ve seen them do now is to look at our team, look at the enemy team comp, and then switch to a class that the enemy team counters.

Yeah, this is the thing. If you believe in the power of one player being able to carry all his team you also have to agree one player also has the power to sunk all his team. There are parameters within which carrying will be more or less possible but past some point I don’t care who you are, nobody is THAT good.

Mightybird.6034:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Why do you avoid saying zilch about his team comp? Is it irrelevant to you?

Guy posts every day. You look at his history he has multiple screen shots. Its not the comp every single time for his huge loss streak. I was replying to him more in general.

ah ok. I can’t tell about that since IDK the post story.

Mightybird.6034:

I’ll concede you have a point, like running full zerk thief in unranked. But my point is, well keep it in unranked (speaking generally, not specifically.) If you’re going to actually compete with a team in ranked, even if its soloq, its just not very honest not to give it your all. Which includes using the best build.

I get what you say but at the same time it’s really frustrating to be stuck on 1 build per profession like that. This for me is more painful than loosing. I wish there was a better balance so more could be as viable.

Mightybird.6034:

I dunno man. Your past screen shots show you aren’t exactly running good builds.

And you’re jumping to what seem to be OP classes. You can’t just jump on a class and be good.

Not 100% sure though, I don’t play DH. Reaper tho is for sure an odd squishy build you have. Try the current meta build. If your running reaper you should be winning every team fight. Even 2v3s in emerald. And some 1v2s.

Early on I was stuck in emerald after having come back from a long break. But I stopped blaming my team mates, actually got decent with rev and reaper and started flying threw emerald and saphire.

Use the meta builds…watch the map…understand your class…understand the meta and why its the meta…and understand your bad match ups…and you’ll be worth 2 players and it won’t matter if you get these brain dead idiots.

Even though I was stuck in a losing streak my MMR must have changed quickly even though I’ve played since beta. Cause now I am being paired with pretty great team mates at least half or more of the time.

Why do you avoid saying zilch about his team comp? Is it irrelevant to you?

Cynz.9437:

Fun fact: today i had a match, we ended up with 2 thieves on team (me and other guy). The team kept blaming us for not doing well etc.

Then we split during the match, me and thief were fighting 2v2 at far and our team had 3v2 fight at home (5th enemy was at mid). Our team at home managed to wipe. They had “proper” classes, were outnumbering enemy and yet they managed to wipe. CLEARLY sole reason why we lost that match is because of double thief…. el oh el.

Thieves are blamed way too often for no good reasons in pvp.

Is it that hard to balance underwater skills? The slow and inexorable removal of water in the game has always disappointed me greatly.

Buffalo Bruiser.3567:

Bad play, I need to “l2p”, horrible matchmaking, even when i win 2 in a row I get placed with 4 first timers for the 3rd game. AFK’s and people who do not know what they are doing.

3 wars? ouch.

Mightybird.6034:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I’ll speak for myself,

I’m loathed by nature to meta and that has zero to do with arrogance. I just do not like following others footsteps by nature and like getting results that are birthed of my experiences and personal thinking/gaming preferences. It is also a challenge I enjoy to do good vs build I know for a fact are better than mine. I like the feeling of having been handed a screw, an elastic and a bunch of plastic bottle and asked to survive with it. If you do survive with that you aren’t bad because your build is. There is a terrible difference between a good player and a good build.

We don’t purposefully break our own kneecaps in life to enjoy over coming the challenge. So why would you in a video game that is supposed to be fun?

PvP is an objective team based game of competition. If you won with a worse build it doesn’t really prove anything. Just that you had a large enough margin for error, and you’d win more games with a good build. I think deep down it is an ego thing.

Don’t get me started on not following foot steps and so called non conformists

Well, for starters, breaking my video games kneecaps isn’t painful at all to me. I died over 16k times playing risky kitten and the “pain” of death and all the running back after yoloing in a zerg in wvw (for examle) never stopped me to try harder. Call me masochist I guess…

Now I often endure longer on sub par build than many can on their zero risk meta gimmicks BECAUSE I played the way I did. Rest assure though that in the rank pvp matches I play since Ruby that I play the very boring meta auramancer or a close variant of it. Simply put, excuse me if I find your analogy to be forced.

If for you winning a race without any shoes vs people who all have running shoes proves nothing I really don’t know what to say to you… we just do not live in the same universe.

BTW, feel free to start your rant about anti-conformists. I’m not the one who will stop you.

Mightybird.6034:

Good for you for posting a video, hopefully you’ll learn from all your mistakes.

Start with the build. I don’t understand some folks aversion to using meta builds. People who play this game for a living, and have ~5000 hours (IN PVP) on a class are the people coming up with them. Don’t you think its just a tad arrogant to think you came up with something better?

I’ll speak for myself,

I’m loathed by nature to meta and that has zero to do with arrogance. I just do not like following others footsteps by nature and like getting results that are birthed of my experiences and personal thinking/gaming preferences. It is also a challenge I enjoy to do good vs build I know for a fact are better than mine. I like the feeling of having been handed a screw, an elastic and a bunch of plastic bottle and asked to survive with it. If you do survive with that you aren’t bad because your build is. There is a terrible difference between a good player and a good build.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

I don’t mean to sound pretentious. If it came off that way I apologize. I am a pretty easy going guy, so I am not here to criticize you. I am always willing to help folks out, and I will que with anyone at least once.

Add me as a friend. If I can’t get enough folks for the game show idea, we can at least que together.

I’ll add you then.

kuba.8367:

In my opinion matchmaking is not the problem in pvp. The characters after the expansion are way to strong to balance a pvp match. But still clicking solo join ended in a fight vs a pre made team is dumb and annoing (sorry for my english im bad at it)

The new spec are OP but it wouldn’t remove the team making problem the algorithm use.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

robotempire.2451:

lil devils x.6071:

I dont think anyone thinks they are that great, I think you misunderstand. The ONLY way players that left and to stop those about to leave is to bring them back temporarily while they design a new map that is designed from the ground up to keep players engaged in nonstop PvP action the entire time they are on them . It breaks down like this atm:

( Just to be clear we are talking about thousands of players currently)

• Bring back alpine Pre Hot NOW= players come back and agree to wait for them to do other changes.
• Do not bring back ALpine = Guilds waiting for an answer leave for good, and those beckoning them to come with them on other games already NEVER. COME. BACK. the end.

That is the decision being made here. No rosy tinted lens, players are angry the results of beta were ignored and they went ahead anyway. You are asking them to let the guilds leave the game for good. Players do not want them to keep playing on Alpine forever, they just do not consider the game playable at all due to the DBL, and returning Alpine is a show of good faith.

I don’t want players who consider desert BL to be unplayable to come back because I don’t think people who think like that are very good players.

I play a bunch of other games but I still make time for WvW because there is no other game that does RvR combat right now at the scale GW2 does. I don’t think people leaving to go play other games is a big deal. Good, go, have fun doing something else.

I also don’t think a “give me back my ball!”-style temper tantrum about the Alpine maps should be something the devs give two kittens about.

If you have read through the reasons ppl have given as to why the DBL is not a great pvp/wvw map or the ABL is a better one you would realize that nostalgia has little to do with it. All I see from you are empty claims. Can I get just one good argument as to why you disagree and throw all players disagreeing with you in the same “not very good players” basket?

I think you cannot say the DBL’s are bad as they have all the PvE stuff in them and removing those would make them totally different. It would be like adding those to the ABL’s, when they were new, and then saying remove them.

People are forgetting that we were all burned out playing the same old crappy ABL maps. People just forget most times.

It would not change them being annoying to navigate AF nor less filled with bottle necks. It would also not make objectives valuable strategically as oppose to merely just PPT. It would also not make the tower/keep bosses not world event-like mechanically.