Guild Wars 2

I already proposed my account to others in previous thread to test the MMR hell. I think it would be a better way to demonstrate what many want to acknowledge or absolutely not because the conditions would be ideal and only the person playing the account would make the difference.

Now, do I think I’m being fed players beneath my level at least half the time? Yes. No doubts about it.

Do I deserve to be legendary? Not sure. I do not have neither the pretension or ambition to be there anyway. That being said, if you are willing to be fair and impartial and not just use that opportunity to twist and focus on everything bad one does (I’m not perfect) I’m willing to party up so you can get a better idea of where you think I should be. Sadly, that won’t let you see what I’m being paired with most of the time..

Ruru.1302:

found the reason why, 2k ap lol

Might explain a lot but OTOH if it’s an alt account it might just say nothing too.

robotempire.2451:

lil devils x.6071:

I dont think anyone thinks they are that great, I think you misunderstand. The ONLY way players that left and to stop those about to leave is to bring them back temporarily while they design a new map that is designed from the ground up to keep players engaged in nonstop PvP action the entire time they are on them . It breaks down like this atm:

( Just to be clear we are talking about thousands of players currently)

• Bring back alpine Pre Hot NOW= players come back and agree to wait for them to do other changes.
• Do not bring back ALpine = Guilds waiting for an answer leave for good, and those beckoning them to come with them on other games already NEVER. COME. BACK. the end.

That is the decision being made here. No rosy tinted lens, players are angry the results of beta were ignored and they went ahead anyway. You are asking them to let the guilds leave the game for good. Players do not want them to keep playing on Alpine forever, they just do not consider the game playable at all due to the DBL, and returning Alpine is a show of good faith.

I don’t want players who consider desert BL to be unplayable to come back because I don’t think people who think like that are very good players.

I play a bunch of other games but I still make time for WvW because there is no other game that does RvR combat right now at the scale GW2 does. I don’t think people leaving to go play other games is a big deal. Good, go, have fun doing something else.

I also don’t think a “give me back my ball!”-style temper tantrum about the Alpine maps should be something the devs give two kittens about.

If you have read through the reasons ppl have given as to why the DBL is not a great pvp/wvw map or the ABL is a better one you would realize that nostalgia has little to do with it. All I see from you are empty claims. Can I get just one good argument as to why you disagree and throw all players disagreeing with you in the same “not very good players” basket?

Jourdelune.7456:

Cosbuster.4379:

The whole notion of “carrying” is taken way out of proportion. Sure, you can to some extend but if people really feel like being stupid, there’s not much you can do unless you can be at 2 places at once and 1v4.

This is because of Lord BS Helseth that can’t use TWO Low MMR account in Diamond Division to show his point.

He is so notoriously “big bang ego” that he created MYTH without using FACTS. He said he can carry any low MMR with his second account… but who will say this is a really bad MMR players and his own second account got a really bad MMR?

Actually, all new account are medium MMR. And LORD BS HELSETH can’t drop his MMR (he is so good)… so his second account are at worse better than average.

And thief or mesmer can carry games if they fights on side points and win their fights.

Proof:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/49vr6w/pvp_looking_for_any_random_pvper_who_claims_to_be/

Thanks for that link.

Sadly, the only viable experiment would be if his majesty Lord Helseth would take a known average or preferably low MMR account and play instead of that person. If ANET want my explicit and legal permission I entirely gave Helseth the permission to play my account as a soloq player to record how he won, or not, his way to diamond (I’m back to Ruby T1 yay!)

That way he would be fed the same conditions as those who report the problem, not different conditions. The idea is, the skill of his majesty would be the only variable to change in the equation and we could measure the degree of success over the course of X matches (his way to diamond in my case) as being “skill based” or “team carrying ability”.

I’m not too full of myself to fear being ridicule by his majesty so in anyway I think it would be fun to watch one way or the other and also quite instructive (both ways). But the experiment he propose is just not the same and would prove jack kitten.

It’s up to you now ANET…

Ele = I’m singing in the rain.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Look at whole the trolls, analyzing the OP decision as if they were GOD’S and able to make split sec decisions all the time.

1- OP, I would only advise you to use a meta build if you don’t main the class. If ele is your main or if you have at least 1000 games on ele; then you don’t have to change your build.

2-There is no need for you to feed the troll, Anet know they kittened up this season, ergo they have decided to work on something better in S3.

Go ahead blame the OP, the op might be right/wrong in saying that system kittened him up; but as long as there is a possibility who THE HECK are you to doubt him?? There is no need to scrutinize his gameplay or whatever…

And if anything, top stats prove something since he is a effing HEALER.

Some might say things a tad crudely but they do have a point about many of the mistakes made and the build being sub optimal as well as the system not being the first thing to blame here. There are several legitimate critiques that could greatly improve the odds in the OP favor.

How about a skill that pluck the moa’s head into the sand giving it invulnerability to all it can’t see for 3 sec, the time for the enemy to dig it out and make it face reality?

Gewd.8125:

“We had several player suggesting to stop playing and continue the next day when you enter a loss streak. That is the consequence. You need to wait until the other players could catch up with you so that there are less skilled players left.”

That is a consequence of any ladder system where everyone starts at the bottom no matter what you do. All you can do is to ensure that the good players rise faster and that happens by giving larger pip bonuses or setting people in higher divisions based on mmr at the start of each season.

“However, it doesnt matter as long as he loses. A loss in mmr is a loss in mmr.”

You don’t seem to understand how ELO works. If your mmr is really low compared to everyone else then your ELO loss per game will approach 0. Yes, it actually isn’t 0, but it will be something like -0.0001. If you are being put against a low mmr team and constantly losing, then you deserve to have bad team mates.

I agree with all you said here except for the fact this isn’t what is happening. If you have average or Low MMR you are paired with brand new or bad players and you loose which lead you to play with brand new bad players which make you loose and so on and so forth while the opposite is also true. In short, for a sizable portion of the pvp population MMR badly reflect real individual skill and engineer self-fulfilling prophecies.

Loosing to stronger players isn’t a problem. Being stuck with obviously bad ones who are not of your caliber at all is. Feeling powerless when going soloq is what irritate most people so they eventually reclaim what power they have left and, if they can, make their own team or, sadly, stop playing.

Jourdelune.7456:

… again a grinding wins system through PIPS will never show how SKILL you are.

To do this, scratch PIPS. We don’t need to GRIND.

You win versus a better MMR team, you raise your League RANK. (Lower MMR team, you raise a bit your league RANK)

You lose versus a better MMR team, you lose your League RANK. You lose versus a lesser MMR team, you lose more League Rank.

Give a decay hit each 2 dayz, where the decay numbers is relative to the numbers of games played (played 2 games in two day, the decay is higher than 10 games on 2 dayz).

Normalized number of games on a week and punish those who stop playing League to KEEP their High RANK.

Actually… the league system make you progress through grinding anyone into your PIPS range till you it Legendary. Yeah… so Legendary to grinds games versus anyone that grind games…

As long as the algorithm stop pairing teams in a way it manufacture wins or loose I’m ok with this.

Holl.3109:

Honestly, moa is fine as is. When I’m reaper I actually get pretty happy when I’m moa-ed since I can just zoom zoom away with 5 and dash dash away with 2 :p

Funny because when i press 5 I most of the time do not get far before going down. Freezing an all that…

Celeras.4980:

I lose because I did not play well enough, or I didn’t pick a class that would allow me to be successful versus the team I’m facing. Occasionally that is the fault of teammates not adequately filling a role I thought they’d be able to.

I win when I execute.

I get the idea behind trying to focus on what you do to improve. I respect it. However, what you say doesn’t begin to make sense in a purely mathematical and logical sense. One person out of five won’t be the heaviest factor in the equation most of the time. I mean, I get the desire to be in control of your life and always stay positive but when it gets to the point where you flat-out deny reality you do more damage to all around you than you do good. The irony is such ppl will often deny the responsibility they hold in that kind of damage they do because for them responsibility is purely individual.

People often complain about others not only because they are irresponsible pricks but because they are often, not always but often, more aware of what they did wrong and what they did right. The matches where I blew it are not those I come on the forum to complain about. I’m not proud of them and believe me I learned from them because I do not want the situation to come again.

People complain because they feel they have too little power over what they experiment (which is going to happen to anyone who enter soloq since they are 1/5 of a team they do not know) and are frustrated by ppl like you because they are denied the right to be acknowledged what they live that is legitimate and feel judged by people who are honestly ill positioned to do so. Unless you share the same MMR and conditions as the ppl who have been complaining you might tone it down a bit when you start preaching personal responsibility in a context you obviously know jack kitten about.

Daroon.1736:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Daroon.1736:

I would like to suggest the following very simple matchmaking fix for S3 (or sooner if possible) that addresses the following issues:

1) MMR Tanking (From season 1)
2) The stated aim of getting ‘good’ players out of lower divisions quickly
3) Fixing the terrible S2 matchmaking

Firstly abandon the awful s2 matchmaking and reintroduce an algorithm that creates matches of teams of similar MMR’s

Secondly remove the win/loss streak mechanic and replace it with a system that awards an amount of pips for a win based on the players MMR and their current division.

For example:

Amber league players with a high MMR might gain 5 pips per win and would very quickly move up – In emerald this would reduce to 4, 3 in sapphire, reducing to 1 in diamond.

‘Above average’ MMR players would start at 3 in Amber, reducing by one and everyone else would start at 2, reducing to one thereafter.

This system would allow everybody to benefit from once again playing ‘fair’ games against similarly matched opponents, whilst at the same time allowing good players to quickly make their way to the higher divisions.

Average players can make progress and are clearly incentivized to improve their gameplay and MMrR.

I’m sorry but anything that seeks to give an advantage or disadvantage to a player based on past measurement and not current performances is always going to be inherently flawed and unfair. If you are “good” and you matter that much by yourself in a team you will get out fast enough. No need to sugar coat it more.

Maybe you are NOW good because you went through a lot of adversity or maybe things were always easy for you. But what matter at any given moment is how you are NOW not the road you took to get there. So please stop with the let’s manufacture match-up so the past repeats itself. Real life is already sadly invested too much in that paradigm anyway. Let’s build something better in the gaming world at least.

Eloquently put put the fact is that the current matching a system of matching high mmr teams against a low mmr teams does ‘give an advantage or disadvantage to a player based on past measurement’ – I’m just looking for an alternative method that provides a better experience for all.

Yeah, I was alluding to MMR when I said “past measurements”as you well know. I’m all for something better, I just don,t think it’s necessary or even good at all to give more pips to strong players.

Daroon.1736:

I would like to suggest the following very simple matchmaking fix for S3 (or sooner if possible) that addresses the following issues:

1) MMR Tanking (From season 1)
2) The stated aim of getting ‘good’ players out of lower divisions quickly
3) Fixing the terrible S2 matchmaking

Firstly abandon the awful s2 matchmaking and reintroduce an algorithm that creates matches of teams of similar MMR’s

Secondly remove the win/loss streak mechanic and replace it with a system that awards an amount of pips for a win based on the players MMR and their current division.

For example:

Amber league players with a high MMR might gain 5 pips per win and would very quickly move up – In emerald this would reduce to 4, 3 in sapphire, reducing to 1 in diamond.

‘Above average’ MMR players would start at 3 in Amber, reducing by one and everyone else would start at 2, reducing to one thereafter.

This system would allow everybody to benefit from once again playing ‘fair’ games against similarly matched opponents, whilst at the same time allowing good players to quickly make their way to the higher divisions.

Average players can make progress and are clearly incentivized to improve their gameplay and MMrR.

I’m sorry but anything that seeks to give an advantage or disadvantage to a player based on past measurement and not current performances is always going to be inherently flawed and unfair. If you are “good” and you matter that much by yourself in a team you will get out fast enough. No need to sugar coat it more.

Maybe you are NOW good because you went through a lot of adversity or maybe things were always easy for you. But what matter at any given moment is how you are NOW not the road you took to get there. So please stop with the let’s manufacture match-up so the past repeats itself. Real life is already sadly invested too much in that paradigm anyway. Let’s build something better in the gaming world at least.

Ithilwen.1529:

The problem with pvp now is the excessive punishment. I’ve seen 30 loss streaks. If you increase the punishment by dropping divisions, it becomes worse.

I don’t think there would be enough players left to support the next season. This system doesn’t reward skill. It favors one group of players over another.

Truthfully, a grind based system is the better option. It will preserve the player base and along the way people will get better.

You have 30 losses in large part because of how the MM work. If they stop manufacturing team the way they do now so no one get an inherent advantage/disadvantage you won’t start loosing all the time until you have reach your limit.

But that being said, you are right that a grind based game might be far better if ANET goal was to attract pve players to pvp rather than do some elitist event. I don’t like that but logically speaking it make more sense considering the goal.

style.6173:

I still find it amusing that people are struggling against scrapper when rev, reaper, and ele are all stronger right now.

Scrapper is #4 though and the top 4 all do need a look.

You really think this?

I would add to your list ppl remaining silent when you ask who goes home/mid and what is the plan but never shut up once they start to loose.

style.6173:

I don’t mean mostly, or doing some duo queues, but rather 100% of matches in solo queue. If so, how does it compare to S1?

99% of the time I have soloqed for both seasons.

I only played 2 weeks in season 1 and got to diamond. I’m mid ruby in season 2 and have played since start.

The difference in match making is obvious as I’m being fed a lot of garbage this season as opposed to the S1 where it was really more random in that aspect.

What made S1 frustrating was the amount of pip you could loose as well as how the loss/win of pips was decided. The match making itself was far better albeit grindy and prone to cheap manips.

But in terms of fun matches S1 was way more fun no comparison.

style.6173:

What’s the point of resetting MMR? If everyone starts at the same MMR the matchmaking would be the same as if ANET ONLY used pips to determine matchmaking. That would be a lot easier, but also would give a lot of bad matches.

Worse than it is now? Nope, not likely at all. At least randomization would maximize no one player would get special treatment leading to more manufactured MMR. You want to have a true skill ladder? Stop manufacturing it.

Removing division safe guards is what would greatly help discriminate stronger players from weaker ones as they would continue to progress to up where they belong while weaker players would remain behind.

It would be fairer and more skill based.

Celeras.4980:

Obfuscate the problem? What is the problem, exactly? The system is designed to give you teammates at your own skill level. The benefits of this are:

- Good players don’t linger in the lower ranks and beat up on bad players by getting random teammates in the beginning of the season.
- Your ladder rank is a meaningful indication of skill. You will shoot up easily if you are better than the majority of players at your pip range.
- Match quality increases at higher ranks.

That assumes that MMR = good players that win on their own which is just not true. I mean how would they fare if they were given the team of the lower MMR guy? Would they still keep that golden MMR or it would tarnish over time from having to carry hard so often as opposed to play with ppl they do not have to worry as much about? This isn’t a show of skill at that point so much as a polarization of the MMR that should be tested not manufactured.

As for matches being of better quality at higher level it might be true up to a point but for many that mean nothing because they will simply never get there and the matches are atrocious at lower levels. So, in the end, and overall is it worth it? Not sure at all that thousands should suffers so a handful can have even better matches.

The “cons”:
- Bad players will have a difficult time digging themselves out of their hole because their losses do not send them down in Amber/Emerald. This causes most of these ranks to have a fairly large range (proportionately) of skill in them because your pip range will generally be determined by how many games you played. A sapphire player can either be a “true” sapphire, or an amber quality player with 100s of games.
- Bad players will, unfortunately, have unbalanced matchups at the beginning of the season while players better than them climb. It’s a PvP ladder. Working as intended.

The problem is it is not just the bad players that will have a hard difficulty but anyone with low or average MMR which new players are entitled to despite being nowhere near an experienced player skill. On the other spectrum you have all these MMR cheesers who have abused match manipulation and now enjoy ideal conditions on their trip to glory while their friends, who did not, have to carry hard all the time for the same goal despite being of similar or maybe better actual skill.

The good players, not just the bads, will also have unbalanced matches but it will be favorable for their progression which I guess make it bearable (sarcasm included for free). The high MMR players who are assumed by the system to be good will get ideal conditions that will greatly help confirm what the MMR says and the opposite is also true. A self-fulfilling prophecy, which is pretty bad if you ask me, that isnt really a great way to convince ppl you are skillful if you ask me. If that is what is working as intended it is pretty sad.

If you want to fix these “cons”, how is random teammates the answer? Bad players will still have unbalanced matchups and still have difficulty climbing, they’ll just be crossing their fingers to get carried by a lucky teammate draw. Which they’ll be able to do for longer, because good players will be stuck in lower ranks for longer than they currently are (and consequently spend more time beating up on bad players).

Random players is the answer because nobody would be shown special favor or special disadvantages. If you are better you will, all things being equal, rise faster than others and leave behind those who wont always have you to help them. To help this, removing the impossibility to loose pips would help solve the getting carried higher than should problem.

Beside, let’s be honest one moment, the good players were given a free ride this season and it really changed nothing about ppl getting ride to ruby because of the safe guards in the lower divisions. So the fear good players would stick longer to help less skillful players is shall we say dubious. Specially if the safe guards were removed.

Ya’ll can shout from the rooftops all you want, but the point remains: there is not a single “pro” to randomizing teammates within a pip range. As long as you cannot lose progress in Amber/Emerald/Sapphire, the problem will always exist because bad players climb sheerly on volume.

I just gave you some no? and I actually see very little and legitimate obstacle to randomization in what ppl have said so far. What I hear is sounding more like players expecting special treatments.

And lets be a real: a PvP ladder is not about the lower 50% of the community. Sorry.

I agree. The problem is, it would take a system that put all players under the same conditions to begin with and ANET not pushing that ladder to be played by all like they do atm. You cant really try to sell an elitist product to everybody. This doesn’t make any sense.

What you seem to want is more like a close competition among the pvp elite. The question is, why don’t they do just that? Team registration, play, advance and see who win down the line and get the title. Problem solved.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

S1 is very bad, in terms of balance and MM. (5 man premade vs all solo) not to mention smurfing, taking advantage of the pip system boosting players to legendary.

S2 is not perfect but now more forgiving to soloQ players which i like. and lack of unkillable bunkers make the game fun. also the short Qs makes it all better.

Wait, what? S2 more forgiving than S1!!? Uh-uh, cool story.

I did not like S1 and it was a grind with ppl massively abusing MM but S2 is a kitten even compared to S1 regarding how forgiving it is. When you end up on the wrong side of the MM in S2 you are kittened in term of soloq. Not so in S1 even if it was a joke season in many regard.

S2 is more skill based than S1 but with big loopholes that prevent it from really being really skill based.

mrauls.6519:

Should more professions have access to moa like abilities? If what you say can change the odds that much, I feel like it would establish a good counter to sustain classes

Moa is but one example but the idea is to prevent him from doing some key actions and many can do it. Target the support column of the other team with cc and whatever you have and it will fall.

As opposed to previous season where diamons skin was impervious to all condies, this seasons condies will work including the horrible freeze of necro. This can mess en ele up bad and you haven’t even turned his boon to crap yet and cc his attempts at cleanse/healing.

Yes, some team comp will have it easier or harder but GOD mode is gone.

mrauls.6519:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

mrauls.6519:

It sure does feel like it’s Sustain Wars 2 all over again…! Freaking stupid -_-

To be fair, it’s a far cry from what it was in s1. There aren’t any real tank anymore. Nothing a good well placed interrupt or better yet, Moa, can’t fix really fast.

I have to disagree… Have you seen how well eles can heal people and how well druids can revive? Sometimes there isn’t enough interrupts or moas to stop an ele or druid serious about their job…

Yes, I play an auramancer myself and I assure you it is not like last season at all where I was GOD. Sure, if you want to kill me 1 v1 that still might be hard but the second you are with someone else who isn’t a death weight my chance of survival in Moa are like really low in higher tiers so far even if you immediately hit 5 to go away.

In fact I’ve seen pretty good mesmers on opposite teams turning an entire matche almost by themselves when they realized I was able to keep 2 -3 of them on me on graveyard and seemingly forever capped in our favor. We initially obliterated them and had 2 caps solidly for us until the team with 2 mesmers decided to hard focus me every times with Moa and followed by the necro condi bombing me.

Once I was out of the equation, my team folded like wet used toilet paper because my condi cleansing and healing was gone and we never could retake 2 caps more than for brief moments. It was a match that me and my teammates were not to blame so much as the opponents having well played their cards.

mrauls.6519:

It sure does feel like it’s Sustain Wars 2 all over again…! Freaking stupid -_-

To be fair, it’s a far cry from what it was in s1. There aren’t any real tank anymore. Nothing a good well placed interrupt or better yet, Moa, can’t fix really fast.

I never had a problem with someone being harder to kill if he takes a defensive amulet. My problem was always with builds being just as “tanky”/“sustainable” but using DPS amulets. How is it you can have it all?

Big damage should equqate easier to kill and hard to kill hitting like wet noodle.

style.6173:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Vlad.1739:

At first I was not going to bother responding to your critique but I believe there is some hope to get my point across so I posted. I will address you on a point by point basis

-Nobody has factual evidence on a scale to prove anything except someone who can data mine anet’s logs. What we can prove are only things based on our experiences in game.

-On meta builds: search and rescue druid as I briefly explained is not a build that can carry a team to force wins. resurrecting a bad player means hes going to die again faster than search and rescue gets used or you get countered while using search and rescue by good player. I will not go further in detail I am not writing a thesis on why res bot druid is bad. What I will say res bot druid not good because you get destroyed when outnumbered by competent players or in team fight if focused by ppl with ports. Resurrect druid will not make wins happen when you are behind. Where as a good Mesmer for example can make a win happen with a good portal play. A good elementalist on a team with no elementalist will increase the teams chance of winning if he can support mid and not let it get capped regardless of teammates deaths occurring the point stays decapped until it can be contested again into another fight. A druid not wasting utilities on SnR and not in clerics can force wins by being one of the best 1v1 builds thus forcing wins on side points and rotating in and out scoring points increasing likelihood your team wins.

-On point 3: People do not have low MMR for no reason. I will concede if it is true new players starting in low MMR and not some average number as bad design. Having low MMR means you do not meet the games expectations of you. You can get out of so called MMR hell in 1 of 2 ways. Team Q or play well enough to beat expectations unless someone can prove the expectation system is deeply flawed which I have yet to be shown. If a player can not do either then they will get stuck is that fair I think so is it fun no it is not and perhaps Anet should do something about it.

-On positive win ratios: This ties into being good enough to carry to some extent or not being dead weight to your team. If you are better than 50% of the population playing you should have more than 50% win ratio. Thus over time you will get needed wins to become a legend. if you are this good but not winning because of MMR system. You need to start performing above expectations in matches, score more points to be where you should, which is hopefully in a place where you are on the winning 50% of the population.

-It is pointless to keep blaming your team for losing under the current system. The system expects you to rise up out of the hellhole that is low ranks and be deciding factor in your team winning or to perform above expectations to get better teams.
-the world is not fair but in GW2 there is are underlying systems that generate what is perceived as unfair. Long time players do not have low MMR or negative win ratio for no good reason. So if you have low MMR you deserved it for not performing well enough. If MMR should be reset at new leagues is a different debate and maybe it should to make the game more fun for certain people. Unlike the world GW2 success is a much greater degree in the hands of an individual. As in playing builds with potential to swing games and make plays, performing better than expected, and gaining in skill.

-To address your points of deserving I will point out as much as I hate to Helseth is going to carry someone he found who believes he is skilled enough to rank up but hard done by the system on a brand new account (IE low MMR) while I will be the first to admit there are a few flaws in his methodology what it will at-least prove if you are good enough you will rank up because you deserve it and will earn it because you are a deciding factor in games and/or queuing with a good player is enough to rank up. On another point Helseth plays Mesmer a known good player and as I have stated before a good Mesmer can steal games. I am very sure He will succeed in ranking up his adopted player.

Nice point but there is such a thing as elo hell. One person can’t carry 4 bads players, you just can’t unless his opponent team is full of bads as well. Which is very unlikely in this meta. And as everyone as pointed, druids are meta. So kitten might explain why your anecdotal experience differs from the OP. But flat out saying there is no such thing as MMR hell is Def wrong and untrue.

You need to understand that at some point people match out on their own potential and will just blame bad matchmaking.

True, except a lot of the people complaining, myself included obviously, are doing so BECAUSE they witness their potential being held back as opposed to having hit the wall of their own limits. It seems to be really hard for some to wrap their head around this.

SlyDevil.3952:

You don’t want to reset MMR…. The algorithm is attempting to estimate the relative skill of all the players, by resetting it you put every single player in the same pool for games. Kind of like, I don’t know, everyone starting at amber and complaining they get matched with players of a higher skill level.

Instead why not have ranked arenas open between seasons with a small amount of decay where players can demonstrate their skill to the algorithm, then have it seed the players between amber(0 pips) and ruby(0 pips) with all rewards given for any tiers/divisions you are placed above. That way having a MM system that matches players based on similar MMR won’t also prevent players from getting stuck in low divisions.

Could also allow players to drop out of legendary/diamond/ruby divisions to sort out players better.

Well my problem atm is that I really think MMR is a bad metric for ppl like me and a bad metric for soloquers period. It inherently make little sense to extract the individual scores of people based on a self fulfilling prophecy algorithm to make it say something it can’t.

To avoid the match making snowballing one way or the other you should not use MMR to put teams together. Let pip range do the job randomly and the good players will slowly go away but not be guaranteed to always have good draws on teammates and vice-versa.

As it is, ofc a team of high MMR (legit or not) will more often than not steamroll a team of average/low MMR (legit or not) since the good players in the low MMR team, have to carry a lot more than anybody in the opposing team despite possibly being equal or better than anyone on the opposing team. He is 1/5 that might need to carry 4/5 while the other team can all carry themselves. I mean what are people expecting of such a gimmick?

On the other side, using MMR to pair opponents can lead to fair matches but at the cost of not being a good indicator of skill since it is vulnerable to grind. So the question is what do you do?

Again, using pip range, and not MMR, to decide who you will fight might be a better idea as it would put you vs people who are were you are in your process without guaranteeing the match being a self-fulfilling gimmick because you only have players who need to carry others or no players in need to be carried. If you are good enough in the same conditions your opponent has to fight you, you advance otherwise you do not. This way we can start to compare apples to something looking more like apples.

People are trying way too hard to make pvp MMR awork as it does a chess game when it clearly isn’t close to be viable for the game if only because it’s a team and almost never the same. Add to it that you now have an algorithm that will nudge you one way or the other before you even start playing so what do you thing it do to MMR? It merely polarize what was already the case instead of testing it.

Stand The Wall.6987:

if you hit a brick wall try something different, like teaming up with people and use voip.

This is, for some, the only avenue. Sadly, it is not easy for all to get a group when you want to play. Why do you think soloq is so popular?

DallasisaLeo.1584:

TheAngryDuckling.5481:

I’ve never experienced that. All the way up to diamond I never lost more that 3 in a row.

Can’t you see that you’re just on the opposite side of the same problem coin? How do people not make this connection?

IKR. People see what they want to see is the problem.

I’ve also had players deliberately sabotaging games and laughing while doing it.

Vlad.1739:

At first I was not going to bother responding to your critique but I believe there is some hope to get my point across so I posted. I will address you on a point by point basis

Just so we understand each others, I do not address my critique at YOU but at what you SAID. It is very important that you do not forget this.

-Nobody has factual evidence on a scale to prove anything except someone who can data mine anet’s logs. What we can prove are only things based on our experiences in game.[/quote] That is not entirely correct since we know how the algorithm pairs people in a team and be aware of the unfortunate collateral damage or boons it can potentially carry. This is a fact. An important one might I add.

But more importantly, if you admit no one can produce evidence why do you so cavalierly dismiss others point of views and different experiences?

-On meta builds: search and rescue druid as I briefly explained is not a build that can carry a team to force wins. resurrecting a bad player means hes going to die again faster than search and rescue gets used or you get countered while using search and rescue by good player. I will not go further in detail I am not writing a thesis on why res bot druid is bad. What I will say res bot druid not good because you get destroyed when outnumbered by competent players or in team fight if focused by ppl with ports. Resurrect druid will not make wins happen when you are behind. Where as a good Mesmer for example can make a win happen with a good portal play. A good elementalist on a team with no elementalist will increase the teams chance of winning if he can support mid and not let it get capped regardless of teammates deaths occurring the point stays decapped until it can be contested again into another fight. A druid not wasting utilities on SnR and not in clerics can force wins by being one of the best 1v1 builds thus forcing wins on side points and rotating in and out scoring points increasing likelihood your team wins.

The thing is and remain that you more or less imply people loosing are using bad builds. For one, the people playing non-meta is relatively rare. I would even go so far as to say non-meta p;layers are often the strong players. Also, if all things were equals the opponents would also have players who have these bad builds. Sadly, things are not made equal at the core.

all this to say that I see little evidences as to this being anywhere near the culprit of the problem we have at hand.

-On point 3: People do not have low MMR for no reason. I will concede if it is true new players starting in low MMR and not some average number as bad design. Having low MMR means you do not meet the games expectations of you. You can get out of so called MMR hell in 1 of 2 ways. Team Q or play well enough to beat expectations unless someone can prove the expectation system is deeply flawed which I have yet to be shown. If a player can not do either then they will get stuck is that fair I think so is it fun no it is not and perhaps Anet should do something about it.

This has already been discussed several times actually. you are correct that ppl do not have bad MMR for no reasons. The little hiccup in this reasoning is to immediately attribute bad MMR with poor skill players and high MMR with high skill players.

If like me you always sought to fight against the meta most of the time and no cared much about your rating, you will have a lesser win/loose ratio than you more than likely would if you had forced yourself playing the cheese most play.

Conversely, season 1 ppl who have exploited the match-making engine have artificially made themselves MMR gods that are in reality no different than most average players.

Finally, you have to also keep in mind that the new players will be attributed an average rating. That means someone like me who has 5k+ on his elementalist will be judged of similar skill as a brand new gw2 player…

Which leads back to your initial claim that there is a reason why ppl have poor MMR. If people with 5k+ hours and thousands of matches are on the same team as brand new players because they play riskier and the new player is welcomed at average rating what do you think will happen to the experienced player MMR more often than not? Will it, all things being equal, go up or down? And if it goes down or at least not up what teammates will he continue to get? And what will be the result of the next match and the consequence? See a problem here?

On the opposite spectrum, let’s take a season 1 cheeser who always played it safe and exploited the match making process. What teammates will the algorithm feed him if he soloq? High MMR players like him ofc. Will he, all things being equals, have to carry such ppl or they usually can carry themselves in a match? Yeah, the conditions for winning when 1/5 does not have to carry 4/5 are not exactly the same as when 4 or 5/5 can carry themselves.

In other words we compare bananas and air craft carriers. The algorithm engineer self-fulfilling prophecies and we do not.

-On positive win ratios: This ties into being good enough to carry to some extent or not being dead weight to your team. If you are better than 50% of the population playing you should have more than 50% win ratio. Thus over time you will get needed wins to become a legend. if you are this good but not winning because of MMR system. You need to start performing above expectations in matches, score more points to be where you should, which is hopefully in a place where you are on the winning 50% of the population. Of course, again, what will happen to that players MMR most of the time? It will go up or at least not down which lead to play while not having to carry etc.

See above.

-It is pointless to keep blaming your team for losing under the current system. The system expects you to rise up out of the hellhole that is low ranks and be deciding factor in your team winning or to perform above expectations to get better teams.
-the world is not fair but in GW2 there is are underlying systems that generate what is perceived as unfair. Long time players do not have low MMR or negative win ratio for no good reason. So if you have low MMR you deserved it for not performing well enough. If MMR should be reset at new leagues is a different debate and maybe it should to make the game more fun for certain people. Unlike the world GW2 success is a much greater degree in the hands of an individual. As in playing builds with potential to swing games and make plays, performing better than expected, and gaining in skill.

I will give you that it is in fact pointless to blame a system in the sense it doesn’t care but venting can help relieve pressure, letting know your experience to the system makers can lead to change and getting some acknowledgement from others also help how you cope with it. Being belittle and ignored while painted as a lazy entitled kid is not helping and more importantly is plain not correct/true.

Since I’ve already went through the “long time players do not have low MMR for no good reasons” portion of your text I will spare you repeating myself as to why it is not a valid measure of individual skill. If you are a good player, no matter your rating, you should rise. You do not need a system that will make it impossible for you not to. Again, it’s more a self-fulfilling prophecy as it is.

People like me, who can’t possibly be put in the same basket as new players MMR-wise no matter how you think he deserve that MMR for not having cared about it before, will suffer a lot from such a system, and it will be factually unfair to them to be given such players continuously.

I’ve already proposed to A-NET that if they can keep an eye on my account I would be willing to let another player who have a high opinion of himself show us how he can carry the teams I’m given. I say put up or shut up already. If you can’t do better than me you loose any legitimacy of blaming my skill belonging in the trash.

-To address your points of deserving I will point out as much as I hate to Helseth is going to carry someone he found who believes he is skilled enough to rank up but hard done by the system on a brand new account (IE low MMR) while I will be the first to admit there are a few flaws in his methodology what it will at-least prove if you are good enough you will rank up because you deserve it and will earn it because you are a deciding factor in games and/or queuing with a good player is enough to rank up. On another point Helseth plays Mesmer a known good player and as I have stated before a good Mesmer can steal games. I am very sure He will succeed in ranking up his adopted player.

It is easier to carry on some professions but carrying players who have experience and players who do not / do not care / troll is quite another. I know a bundle on carrying and my shoulders are hurting a lot.

Vlad.1739:

At first I was not going to bother responding to your critique but I believe there is some hope to get my point across so I posted. I will address you on a point by point basis

Just so we understand each others, I do not address my critique at YOU but at what you SAID. It is very important that you do not forget this.

-Nobody has factual evidence on a scale to prove anything except someone who can data mine anet’s logs. What we can prove are only things based on our experiences in game.

That is not entirely correct since we know how the algorithm pairs people in a team and are aware of the unfortunate collateral damage or boons it can potentially carry. This is a fact. An important one might I add.

But more importantly, if you admit no one can produce evidence why do you so cavalierly dismiss others point of views and different experiences?

-On meta builds: search and rescue druid as I briefly explained is not a build that can carry a team to force wins. resurrecting a bad player means hes going to die again faster than search and rescue gets used or you get countered while using search and rescue by good player. I will not go further in detail I am not writing a thesis on why res bot druid is bad. What I will say res bot druid not good because you get destroyed when outnumbered by competent players or in team fight if focused by ppl with ports. Resurrect druid will not make wins happen when you are behind. Where as a good Mesmer for example can make a win happen with a good portal play. A good elementalist on a team with no elementalist will increase the teams chance of winning if he can support mid and not let it get capped regardless of teammates deaths occurring the point stays decapped until it can be contested again into another fight. A druid not wasting utilities on SnR and not in clerics can force wins by being one of the best 1v1 builds thus forcing wins on side points and rotating in and out scoring points increasing likelihood your team wins.

The thing is and remain that you more or less imply people loosing are using bad builds. For one, the people playing non-meta is relatively rare. I would even go so far as to say non-meta p;layers are often the strong players. Also, if all things were equals the opponents would also have players who have these bad builds. Sadly, things are not made equal at the core.

all this to say that I see little evidences as to this being anywhere near the culprit of the problem we have at hand.

-On point 3: People do not have low MMR for no reason. I will concede if it is true new players starting in low MMR and not some average number as bad design. Having low MMR means you do not meet the games expectations of you. You can get out of so called MMR hell in 1 of 2 ways. Team Q or play well enough to beat expectations unless someone can prove the expectation system is deeply flawed which I have yet to be shown. If a player can not do either then they will get stuck is that fair I think so is it fun no it is not and perhaps Anet should do something about it.

This has already been discussed several times actually. you are correct that ppl do not have bad MMR for no reasons. The little hiccup in this reasoning is to immediately attribute bad MMR with poor skill players and high MMR with high skill players.

If like me you always sought to fight against the meta most of the time and no cared much about your rating, you will have a lesser win/loose ratio than you more than likely would if you had forced yourself playing the cheese most play.

Conversely, season 1 ppl who have exploited the match-making engine have artificially made themselves MMR gods that are in reality no different than most average players.

Finally, you have to also keep in mind that the new players will be attributed an average rating. That means someone like me who has 5k+ on his elementalist will be judged of similar skill as a brand new gw2 player…

Which leads back to your initial claim that there is a reason why ppl have poor MMR. If people with 5k+ hours and thousands of matches are on the same team as brand new players because they play riskier and the new player is welcomed at average rating what do you think will happen to the experienced player MMR more often than not? Will it, all things being equal, go up or down? And if it goes down or at least not up what teammates will he continue to get? And what will be the result of the next match and the consequence? See a problem here?

On the opposite spectrum, let’s take a season 1 cheeser who always played it safe and exploited the match making process. What teammates will the algorithm feed him if he soloq? High MMR players like him ofc. Will he, all things being equals, have to carry such ppl or they usually can carry themselves in a match? Yeah, the conditions for winning when 1/5 does not have to carry 4/5 are not exactly the same as when 4 or 5/5 can carry themselves.

[quote=6038573;Vlad.1739:][quote][quote][quote][quote]

Vlad.1739:

There is no such thing as MMR hell. I do not have factual evidence but I have anecdotal evidence based on my experience.

1) You play trash build res druid is a bad build. especially vs good players that can and will counter you if they have the right cool-downs
2) I got stuck near the end of ruby when I was about to get diamond I’ve lost only 4 games until t4 ruby. I knew I was destroying enemy team as I could win most 1v1 and 1v2 or 1v3 in emerald and less so in sapphire consistently. I got stuck t6 ruby for what I believe was longer than I should have due to bad luck.
3) I noticed I lost because bad team compositions. once you reach ruby unless you can still carry hard and be a one man army like before, builds start to matter. I realized I could not go in outnumbered fights and win without my team rotating all the time.
4) I have a positive win ratio: Thus i knew I would leave ruby eventually and I understood why I lost when I lost.
5) Do not blame the system even if it is flawed in spite of the system the people who deserve to rank up will rank up if they play enough.
6) If the game feels completely out of your control it means you do not have sufficient skill to carry which I have felt at several times also certain builds have the potential to swing games more than others. Your build amplifies a team but can not carry it.

Possible conclusions
Conclusion 1) Maybe You belong where you are.
Conclusion 2) Play a better build.
Conclusion 3) Your analysis skills are lacking and holding you back from improving at the game and seeing the truth behind your losses.
Conclusion 4) If you deserve to rank up you will be enough of a factor in your games to push wins.

This post is light on logic and heavy on ideology.

If you say you have no factual evidences (anecdotes are worth kitten to infer to the whole population) then why say there is no such thing?

Also, nearly all of your points are irrelevant or just not based on logic at all. Lets proceed to see how…

Regarding your point 1, most people stuck play meta builds as far as I know. So I’m really skeptical as to that being the problem.

Your point number 2 is not an argument at all. It merely sets your context, which is fine but really not belonging as a number 2.

Your point 3 actually give weight to the claims of many ppl complaining about the match making system. When you have poor MMR, you get poor/new players but your opponents are not picked with the same MMR range.

Your point 4 is the one with sound logic in it. Sadly you will proceed to cherry pick when you will formulate your “possible conclusions” despite what you allude to in your point #3.

Point #5 is where we leave logic to enter the realm of ideology. News flash for you, unless you believe that billions of people living in very poor conditions on the planet deserve what they get while us filthy rich westerners deserve not to you quickly understand that the world isn’t fair. A lot of people get what they do not “deserve” (based on meritocracy) and this game is no different. That doesn’t mean ppl should not try to stay positive and do their best (within the limit of what is available to them at any given moment ofc). But there is a margin between staying positive and flat out plucking your eyes and ears and proceed to imply ppl not making it are just bad and lying.

Point 6… IDK if you thought this one very long but it explains your list of possible conclusions being so small. I’ve said this a lot on the forum but it doesn’t seem to register in some ppl. You are 1/5 of your team. Expecting 1/5 of something consistently outweighting 4/5 makes no sense at all. It’s like expecting to outpaddle 4 ppl in your canoe who fight the direction you want to impose on your own. The most polite way I can qualify this is unrealistic. Therefore, the conclusion that says it HAS to be your lack of skill simply doesn’t stand one second when you aren’t invested with cse to the majority of the power in your hands.

Are you responsible for your team defeat? Yes. I’m part of it.

Is it your fault if you did what you had to do but it failed anyway? No.

The conclusion I get from a game where I had a meta build and have done my best in every way my 1/5 of power could is that a portion of the remaining 4/5 did not, or that the team we fought against were just plain stronger. But usually, it is not very hard to know which it was…

So, if this happens a lot to you were you are responsible but not guilty it might be something systemic that weights you down. Strangely, I do not see this possible conclusion on your list. IT’s just not possible apparently…

And seriously, can we please stop it with this insane BS that if you deserve to rank up you will be enough of a factor to make it happen?

IMO they should have done they opposite of what they did. Make team with ppl of your competition rank (not MMR) and put you vs team of overall equivalent MMR.

This way you maximize probability of having fun matches and avoid making snowball effect in a way or the other.

As it is, having a good MMR pre-season made you a VIP player getting all you needed to have an easy and comfortable seat to glory while having average or lower MMR makes you persona non grata. And that, regardless of your actual skill.

The people who had it easy this time around might not like to see their MMR reset but it would be fairer. The burden of carrying should be better distributed otherwise you only engineer self fulfilling prophecies.

Sykper.6583:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Zodryn.4216:

You’re joking, right? 5v5 teamfights are just a mess of AoE and crazy effects. 1v1 and 2v2 fights are much more skill based and interesting. Conquest was probably the only mode to prevent fracturing the player base (LoL actually deleted a game mode/map recently for this reason). Also, if they allowed capping when you have more people on a point it would totally screw up point defending and invalidate a large number of builds and key strategies.

PvP has issues, but none of your suggestions are even remotely helpful.

Edit: I’m really curious what class you play.

pvp is too skill based, removing some of the skill is a wonderful idea , theres a reason nobody plays this mess of a feature

WTF did I just read? O_o

Do you need a moment? It’s alright, a lot of folks I think got baited hard by this thread.

It’s official I now sux at this game of sarcasm… getting old.

Littlefeather.8623:

SailorSpira.9371:

I’m not a good player. I’m trying to improve and I am getting better but I am in Emerald and I deserve to be in Emerald. The problem is, most of the other people who deserve to be in Emerald seem to have quit.

My match making for the last week or so has put me with the same few people both consistently on my team and on the opposing team. 4-6 Matches in a row with the same 2-3 people on my team. Opposing the same core team that flogs us again and again. Solo queing as T1 Emerald i’m facing Solo Q Saphires.

There are a few problems with this:

1. There are good players who are getting stuck playing with people like me again and again as they only have 1-2 MMR matches in team line up they get stuck.

2. Playing unwinable matches constantly is demoralising and causes more players to leave making the player pool much smaller still. This means next season you have a smaller player pool to spread amongst the ranks and better players will be stuck in lower leagues.

Now please be clear this isn’t a “QQ Y NO BACKPACK” post, I don’t think I should be able to progress out of Emerald. But I do want fair match ups. This far into the season the imbalance in lower tiers should have been soughted out, but it hasn’t. I would just like to put this out here for Anet to see. Without a base you can’t build a pyramid and with out bad players to fill the lower ranks you can’t push all the better players up.

Yes i’ve tried playing at different times (similar results i’ve tried from 2pm PST -> 9AM PST).

Yes i’ve tried leaving it a few days and coming back.

Yes i’ve tried queing with friends, most are better then me (High Saphire – Ruby) and I don’t want to drag them down.

Yes i’ve tried partying people I worked well with, we then get matched against tougher 4-5 man premades. Because 2 man pre is the same as a 5 man pre.

Yes I know unranked is there.

Yes I know I need to learn to play and get better.

I hope Anet can figure out a better system for soughting players into tiers next season, but I’m not sure how many of us who deserve to be at the bottom will be back after this season.

The guy’s main topic is the lack of MMR balance and depletion of population due to bad morale of the ladder, stop pretending this problem doesn’t exist.

Oh the problem is real. No question about it. The pool of players within your MMR and pip range can often be quite limited and why you are continuously put over and over with the same ppl so often day after day.

Vieux P.1238:

I’ve tested mesmer since the last big nerf. Looking for viable builds that can mesure up to other classes. Any other builds like power shatter is long dead. Well conclusion only 1 build works. Condi shatter & only with the moa morph setup to it.

But works vs medium to lower skill players. Cuz any players that are considered high skilled, kills any mesmers. Mesmers is under powered vs all classes. Proof is in the numbers. When i see peeps doing more then 300k to 1 million k pts of damage vs the mesmer who hits during a match under 200k. Something is wrong with you complainers. & you all need to get better instead of complaining for another nerf.

My experience is opposite than you then because the more I go up in the ladder the more I see them. And they are VERY efficient when well played.

Edit: that being said, mesmer do not need a nerf. It’s only double Moa that might need looking into.

Chaba.5410:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Don’t queue of a few mins after a match, you’ll get different people, unless your unlucky to be in a small pool of players.

A lot of players do this, but maybe the real solution is for match-making to disqualify players from being placed on the same team they were on in their last match.

I would approve of this because I no longer count the amount of games I was stuck with players I had blocked and wished to never see again.

It is also possible that really strong players only just started the season. In fact they are legendary but you just so happen to see them on their way up. Your current level is not necessarily your skill level. Some players won’t even have amber rank but still capable of kicking your kitten .

Actually, considering the massive power creep, nerfing everything might not be a bad idea at all.

Lexander.4579:

i think you should be grateful to your teammates for winning 4v5 so that you dont get a point loss and a desertion instead of complaining of not getting a point for a game you were afk at

The guy has crashed. He didn’t want this to happen. It has happened to me too and can tell you feel bad enough for your teammates and your game (that you might be winning). And, as if it wasn’t bad enough, you are branded a “deserter” and loose a pip more often than not.

Galandil.9641:

It’s poorly worded, yes. But it was confirmed by Anet on reddit, partial achievements don’t reset, so if you reach say 2 divisions crossed on 4 of the Part IV one during this season, in the next you’ll only need to cross 2 more divisions to complete it.

Wow, this was indeed very poorly written if it was what they wanted to say. In that case there is hope for these people.

My list would be:

1) Revert the maps. The maps were fine when we had quaggans helpers. Adding snowball elements (orb or ruins always controlled by the strongest who were awarded yet more strength) rather than comebacks was what was a problem. Not the map itself. Whoever sold you the idea going toward EoTM kind of annoying maps with pve world bosses mechanics was a good idea?

2) Collisions scripting. Too many splash damage going through obstacles leading to cheesy siege placements.

3) A tweak to stab or ccs. Not a reversion to cc obsolescence though. Work on finding that sweet spot to keep cc relevant but not absurd.

4) Get rid of tactivators. WvW players want opportunities to have up close and personal large fights with swords and spells not giant flying ships and nuclear ammunition banners. On top of it they are not equally available to all which further compromise balance. Contrarily to what some of you were lead to think with some kind of weird voodoo metrics, the core players of that game mode do not enjoy pve farming at all and being asked to produce an insane amount of material, requiring them to pve farm, in sacrifice for what was already theirs was not the wisest move.

5) Leave only a minimum of pve elements and never let these elements have too much impacts on the game. The EBG mercenaries are just perfect as they provide an advantage but is nowhere game breaking at all. The goal of these npc is too slow players down.The ludicrous sky-splitter gimmick tho…

Duke Nukem.6783:

Zodryn.4216:

You’re joking, right? 5v5 teamfights are just a mess of AoE and crazy effects. 1v1 and 2v2 fights are much more skill based and interesting. Conquest was probably the only mode to prevent fracturing the player base (LoL actually deleted a game mode/map recently for this reason). Also, if they allowed capping when you have more people on a point it would totally screw up point defending and invalidate a large number of builds and key strategies.

PvP has issues, but none of your suggestions are even remotely helpful.

Edit: I’m really curious what class you play.

pvp is too skill based, removing some of the skill is a wonderful idea , theres a reason nobody plays this mess of a feature

WTF did I just read? O_o

Ithilwen.1529:

People have complained about Moa for the life of the game and it has been nerfed. It’s an incredibly long cast, a long cool down and is totally evadable and blockable.

Truly if you die to Moa, it’s your fault.

If you die to Moa it’s your fault? Really? In pvp you can’t only keep your eyes on one opponent (sometimes there are 2 chronos) and keep all your endurance for that one skill. The other opponents and the mesmer himself, will peel away your defenses. Your opponents usually do not throw away such a skill at random and with chrono he get to have 2 shots at you. It becomes rather hard to fail both for a mesmer who really wants you to be a Moa.

Galandil.9641:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Unless I’m mistaken you do have to cross 4 divisions in the same season to get hymn of glory no (required for gift of the competitor)? That means reaching diamond if I’m not mistaken.

You’re mistaken.

The crossing of divisions can be done during any season, for example you just need to reach legendary div in just 2 seasons to complete the whole 10 div crossings. Or legend x2 in S1 and diamond in S2, etc.

Hum…

That is not what I’m understanding when I read:

“_League Elite_

Cross 4 league division thresholds during a PvP season.
Completing this achievement awards an item for Path of the Ascension IV: Hymn of Glory.
Prerequisite: League Champion"

The way I get it if someone can’t ever reach diamond he can kiss the backpack good bye.

SkyShroud.2865:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

musu.9205:

SkyShroud.2865:

Alphabet.7392:

SkyShroud.2865:

if it can be counter play, it isnt broken, isnt it?

something with counterplay can still be broken my friend

what does that even mean? that doesnt make much logical sense.

To be honest something with counterplay but only few counterplay or being high reward low effort ,or too hard to counter but too easy to pull , that thing can be broken .

But back to topic , moa itself has many counterplays , also harder to pull off on a mes (on an engi it could be far easier ),you can counter it easily with all classes .
So It is powerful but balanced.

then we have double moa :think about this one ,now if a necro can consume his lifeforce then use his elite lich form, cast 1 s skill in lich form , and then call target for your team to focus fire,and that necro finally kill some tank build .
and btw mes double moa is harder to pull off than the example i made above since illusion dies to random hit in team fight so easily .

Be fair, compare any other elite to Moa and tell me it’s in line with other elites? The other elite too you can counter (a lot easier most of the time) and their effect is FAR less important on most any battle. Heck, when you Moa a tornado or a Lich you not only counter that elite you also turn the table on the poor guy who also invested his elite. And other professions can’t double elite even if they are weaker.

but you have to consider the overall usefulness of mesmer as well.
by nerfing moa, will mesmer still be useful? thats the question.

I agree and understand. It is more than likely why mesmer has these kind of overtuned skills to prevent it being irrelevant. But the skills making her/him relevant… they really are way better.

It is not an easy problem, but a problem nonetheless.

Galandil.9641:

Ithilwen.1529:

It’s worse than sad. It means that matches will be even more unbalanced than they were. It also means that I have exactly 0 chance of winning the wings.. so the rest of the year is a waste of time for me. Why should I play? Why should anyone play, unless thye have pre -made ridden to diamond?

Please stop it. To get the wings, you just need to cross 10 division thresholds during all 4 seasons. That means that you only need to reach at the least twice Ruby and twice Sapphire, or three times Ruby and once Emerald.

You don’t need to hit diamond not even once in order to get the the backpack.

And btw PvP should be played just for the sake of it, not for some stupid skin, that would be the “plus”, not the main reason.

Unless I’m mistaken you do have to cross 4 divisions in the same season to get hymn of glory no (required for gift of the competitor)? That means reaching diamond if I’m not mistaken.

DeWolfe.2174:

I’m in agreement that there’s something terribly fracked up with matchmaking. I lost all my pips in Ruby tonight. Same thing, a 10 game losing streak with maybe IDK 20 win rate total for the past 10 hours? It’s just horrible match making from the beginning of the night. Where I was stuck solo’ing against team after team, after team, after team, after team, and after another F’n TEAM!

This season’s population is going to implode in a week after most of us hit Ruby. No ones going to want to deal with this level of unhappiness and frustration in a video game. Nor is there any reason not to just AFK for the daily’s once we hit Ruby.

Pretty much my experience most of the time (the solo’ing team after team after team bit feeling). Playing pvp has become so frustrating that it bring the worst out of me too often now. I often have to take breaks because I start insulting ppl so much I cant take it anymore to see them sabotage games we could/should win. It’s at the point I wish I could use henchmen like in GW1.

katniss.6735:

I’m a casual player in spvp: 3-10 games, or 3 as an average per day. I got to diamond soloQ on just an Ele, playing Meta auramancer with mostly cleric, and a bit of menders toward the end. If you play any of the meta classes, you should have no problem. My longest lose stream was 3 games, and that happened once. I believe if you are really good at any of the meta classes, getting to diamond is not going to take very long. There were many games where I lost by only 30 points. The toxic part is when one person on your team is just trash talking your own team. But hey, that’s their problem, just laugh it off. Try to communicate rotations instead of just telling people to rotate.

I play the same thing you did and have 5k thousands of hours on my ele but my soloq experience was drastically different than yours and my ascension to diamond is painful af. The difference between my win streaks and my loose streak are extremely obvious though: the team I’m given by the soloq algorithm. Not that I’m getting carried by better player than me when I win. They are, most of the time, not better at all. However, they do not need to be carried is the major difference.

Knowing how the algorithm seem to work, your MMR is more than likely what made the difference in how easy it was. I truly regret having not having cared about it before but OTOH it was not relevant before in how you were attributed matches.

zcpbwl.7056:

This match making system is ridiculous, it is impossible to win for 5 rubies against 5 diamonds.

Anyway I am diamond now, and I don’t need to pvp anymore.

This is sooo wrong to say that and make me beleive you are one of those I’m being fed when I play in ruby.

That you play with ruby doesn’t mean they are ‘ruby" level of skill. Maybe their current play level is also diamond or higher and just didn’t play as much this season hence why they are ruby for now. Your current level in the league is meaningless. Only your ultimate potential really matter.