Guild Wars 2

Straegen.2938:

Who doesn’t like to have their keeps T3/WP’d by the enemy for those extra long runs? Who doesn’t like to fight 2v1 under a mountain of enemy siege at their sides keep? Who doesn’t want to spend a month trying to find a 4v1 that isn’t under siege because that is the closest to a fair fight as you will find?

I know I will miss when 10+ guys run me down and then jump on my body like it is some sort of accomplishment (which happened over a dozen times last night). Welcome to the bottom of T2… call me when you get here and we can swap stores about honorable play and not tanking to avoid this situation.

This is a strawman… Nobody say it is fun to be wrecked. I sure as hell didn’t even implied it. Heck, I was on Mag until a few days ago so I sure know a little about it… I merely said the strategy is unsustainable and, if applied by all, would amount to nothing on top of being boring to death in an arguably worst way than being rolled over while fighting.

Xillllix.3485:

Instead of just getting bags and random gear, why not add a very rare chance to get an item from your opponent inventory on a WvW kill in order to add an interesting anticipation aspect to the complete randomization of loot.

That chance could be affected by magic find and be around 1/1000 at 0% magic find, 1/333 at 300% mf.

Obviously legendaries and precursors could be excluded from the list, or the chance to get those items could also be a % of the overall %.

Oh, great, let the player farming begin… Look people, a guy with legendaries and ascended armor! Let’s get him!

As many said before, the only thing that it would accomplished is to make us use our storage a lot more before entering the fray…

Cygnus.6903:

Right, so I got an ascended chest twice now in WvW, by ranking up. I am currently rank 32X, so that’s a droprate of about 1/160 for such a chest. Not a whole lot IMO.

Thing is, I got a Dire chest twice. Now, I know Dire is a perfectly viable stat to use in condition based builds. But that’s the thing, I don’t find condi builds challenging to play, so I just have the Dire chests sitting in my vault.

One might argue that you should be able to choose the stat you want when you finally get lucky after 160 rank-ups. It would take you ~1k ranks to get a full set. Would be nice to get the set you want… Or am I stepping on too many farmer-toes?

Personally, I like it that they are rare drop. When it happens, and it will since they aren’t THAT rare, I’m happy about it instead of being “meh”.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

Watch the interview I linked above, they are doing nothing! They are not working on WvW!!!

That still doesn’t excuse the fetid attitude. If they are not working on it, the last thing that will make them start is a long slew of insults about them being lazy.

The entire game was built upon months and months of sleepless nights and stress and probably runs on blood and tears right now. they don’t need people telling them they don’t work hard enough.

you want change? be a human being and make the request like you have some sense.

-Gee whiz.

Couldn’t have said it better. Who here would be inclined to come in such a hate pit? If I was a dev the last thing I would want to do is come see you guys.

I understand the frustration, I really do, but if you have reached a point where all you are is solidified anger, just remove yourself from the forums. You won’t help anybody by letting that kind of steam out all the time. You are kittening at humans who might want to help you/us but they can’t because their boss won’t let them. Not very comfortable.

In the interview above, I was put in front of one of the big problem that plague any game, and real life, when one of the guy asked about reward for scouting (I actually facepalmed at the question). Do you all just do thing because there is an external carrot to gain? Or scouting is rewarding enough in itself that you will still do it? If players could slowly start to gain reward out of something else than loot/xp/karma a lot of the problem we see wouldn’t even matter.

xDudisx.5914:

You seem to work under the rather naive belief that WvW necessarily equal mindless zerg. It can be that but for many it doesnt since they roam (solo or not) and that mean far greater risk than anything spvp can popose.

I did not say roaming is bad. Actually I was mostly talking about people that blob around in their full bunkers and think that what they are doing is skillful and hard .In my opinion roamers are the light in the end of tunnel for wvw. But I disagree with you when you say it has more risk. You can face more enemy in wvw BUT you are not “forced” to defend a point. I sometimes play full zerker thief in wvw and find it easier than in spvp. If things go bad you can escape almost everytime with shadowstep or stleath and reset a fight if you get outnumbered by a lot.

Might be true with some professions but not all. I for one like to roam (and spvp) with my staff ele and fleeing isn’t exactly easy. The thief is probaly hte most extreme example illustrating the difference between spvp and wvw landscape.

DaveGan.8065:

I’ll let this speak for itself.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

It’s always amazing to see just how much people are willing to rationalize to preserve their ego.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

BTW, I changed server because Mag would no longer even try to fight, not because we were loosing and were outnumbered all the time. If loosing or winning was so important to me I would not have endure so long and gone through the last 2 seasons knowing from start that we would never have any hope of winning. It was fun being in Mag. It really was. But at some point things have changed quite a bit in the community and I finally decided that if nobody would care I could still decide to put up with the kittenty attitude or be done with it.

I understand it is not fun to feel judged and that I do judge here, sorry, but it doesn’t change what I’ve said nor the value of it. I’m pretty tired of the mentality several of you uphold and the problem it causes in communities. Heck, I went away from Mag in part BECAUSE of the collateral of the tanking strategy. I didn’t wanted to go away from my friends and pay 1800 kittening gems to take a chance of finding a better community. It was just THAT bad for too long and these macro-manipulations as a “solution” to the real problem is a joke. You solve very little by adopting this strategy except postpone the inevitable at the cost of putting quite a lot of stress on the server’s community.

As far as the relevance of the links, they call into question your moral high ground and the validity of your judgment, which is why I and others will and will continue to ridicule you when you continue to pass said judgment. If you still don’t get it, send me a PM for elaboration.

No PM. I’m sure you can elaborate the relevance of your public “ridicule” attempt toward me publicly.

Even if you cast aside the “moral high-ground”, that is not the crux of the matter at all, the point about the strategy not being viable still stand. It’s not about it being “bad” vs “good”. It’s about how it causes tons of problems and achieve nothing in the long run. What happens if everybody decide they have to tank because if they don’t THEY will move somewhere they don’t want to? Are we entering a new “cold- war” MAD scenario where all involved parties are locked into a situation they can’t defused for fear of what might happen if they try to? This is something that is unsustainable and stressful. Moral judgement aside.

DaveGan.8065:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

It’s always amazing to see just how much people are willing to rationalize to preserve their ego. A-net sure has it’s faults in this but I hope you guys realize you are part of the problem too… Be the change you want to see in the world is something too few apply apparently (not just aiming you btw).

Must be nice to be so judgmental.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_mentality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

“No I would never do that myself!”
…
zap

Have fun on Magu…owait you jumped ship and changed servers!

Avoidance really is a habit of yours and not just when you decide to tank your score… Instead of facing the issue you chose to attack the poster (me), and on baseless ground at that. Can you even begin to argue your links relevance? Seriously?

BTW, I changed server because Mag would no longer even try to fight, not because we were loosing and were outnumbered all the time. If loosing or winning was so important to me I would not have endure so long and gone through the last 2 seasons knowing from start that we would never have any hope of winning. It was fun being in Mag. It really was. But at some point things have changed quite a bit in the community and I finally decided that if nobody would care I could still decide to put up with the kittenty attitude or be done with it.

I understand it is not fun to feel judged and that I do judge here, sorry, but it doesn’t change what I’ve said nor the value of it. I’m pretty tired of the mentality several of you uphold and the problem it causes in communities. Heck, I went away from Mag in part BECAUSE of the collateral of the tanking strategy. I didn’t wanted to go away from my friends and pay 1800 kittening gems to take a chance of finding a better community. It was just THAT bad for too long and these macro-manipulations as a “solution” to the real problem is a joke. You solve very little by adopting this strategy except postpone the inevitable at the cost of putting quite a lot of stress on the server’s community.

It’s always amazing to see just how much people are willing to rationalize to preserve their ego. A-net sure has it’s faults in this but I hope you guys realize you are part of the problem too… Be the change you want to see in the world is something too few apply apparently (not just aiming you btw).

King Amadaeus.8619:

I find it really hard to believe that no silver servers are pushing up for gold, where they would be destroyed by SoS and absolutely annihilated by BG/JQ/TC…..

Yeah hard to believe people are actively avoiding that…..

What I truly find hard to believe is being willing to actively avoid that forever. Once the tourney will be over the same problem will remain… This “solution”, isn’t one.

Jurica.1742:

Thanks! I though cele d/d was the noob ele spec and s/f was the pro one? d/d is easy to play for me but I don’t see too many big numbers (I can kill things quickly, just not as bursty as s/f) and I feel a bit too tanky for my liking. Plus I’m not a massive fan of melee..
I guess s/f it is?
I use it on my ele in PvP. I know all the skills already, some nice rotations and am great in 1v1. Did some against my friends and the NPCs in the mists.
Traveler are too much for me atm.
I will probably get speed or ogre runes. Haven’t checked speed price yet.
What about sc/d?

The d/d being the “pro” build has less to do with it being d/d and everything to do with what people do with it (solo roam). Do solo roaming with staff, like I do, and you will see what leave you with a lesser margin of error when a thief appears out of the blue.

IMO, Staff is the best WvW weapon. Best has in, more useful overall. It is also very challenging, and rewarding (read fun you get out of managing well with it), if you want to go solo or in small groups. Ele is a great profession since it is so versatile. You will always be relevant in WvW in a way no other profession has made me feel, to different degree of course, and I have all professions at 80.

Radian.2478:

Hello all. I am seeking to maximize tickets this season (unlike last time where my server got last) incase there exists a skin in the future that I like. I would like to either transfer to the top silver league team or the top bronze team (NA). I’m guessing there’s two options:

1) Transfer a day before the season starts, trying to have correctly predicted the eventual winner of either league.

2) Transfer right when the season has started and I’ve seen which servers are in which league.

If I go with 2), will my tickets for that week be awarded from how the server does that I transferred to? Or is it the server I transferred from? I saw anet mentioned there won’t be a lock-out period so I was maybe thinking 2) should work? If so, it looks too easy to bandwaggon, though, it’s obviously not free this time.

Is loot all there is to you?

xDudisx.5914:

So you think that a place where you can have gear advantage, siege, use -40% condi foods and are able to run is harder than spvp where people have that same gear options and no stat advantage? Have you ever notice that the top 10% of the wvw players are in most cases the roamers that come from spvp? Even the most mindless meta hambow is probably better than half of the WvWers. I have played both spvp and wvw long enough to know that wvw is by far easier to play even when following a “elite” guild. Is all about facing bad enemy and having stat+food advantage.

I dont see how stack ,use stability and blast water/fire field can be harder than spvp. I do think that it require skill for the Commander because he is the only taking the active decisions, the others are just following stacking and using stuff when requested.

You have a very one sided view of things. Yes, equipment and numbers is possibly unequal. But unequal goes both way. Sometimes you are on the side of advantage, sometimes you are hopelessly disadvantaged waaaaaaaaaaay beyond anything you can hope to find in spvp.

You seem to work under the rather naive belief that WvW necessarily equal mindless zerg. It can be that but for many it doesnt since they roam (solo or not) and that mean far greater risk than anything spvp can popose. The worst you will have in spvp is 1 vs 5 ppl with equal gear. In WvW it can be 1 vs X + sieges where you have no stacks and exotic gear (recently died) and they all have max guard buff and ascended gear. Try dealing with that mindlessly.

Zerg can be skillfull play too btw. It’s very different to run against door with no opposition and run into an equally large group. Maybe the problem is how you chose to play WvW…

Chris.3290:

The tanking thing…it’s short sighted because all it does is buy you a 4 week reprieve. T2 will still be there after the tournament and it will annihilate you.
Right now your biggest hope is that FA continues it’s mission to kill the opponents with boredom, a frighteningly effective strategy.

Anyhow, there’s no way this turns out ok for T3. You will have a rotating hotseat of death into T2 after the tournament so putting off the pain is not helping your situation.

This was pretty much my point too. Will they tank all their life to avoid T2? It won’t become less of a problem once the tournament is gone.

Reverence.6915:

Afya.5842:

If DB get into gold, I wouldn’t be surprised that we will pull another Maguuma. You don’t know how many guildies in the small PVX guild I’m in transfered after last tournament. Some SOS, some FA, I also considered transfering if EDGE didn’t come. Getting base kitten d isn’t fun. And fun is what keeps the pugs in wvw.

Can understand that (BG got it rough last season), but this whole “race to the bottom” is even worse for your server imo, as it gives the impression that your server isn’t trying to someone who may come in to WvW for the first time say, today, since WvW will be flooded with AP hunters when S3 starts and coverage goes out the window with near full maps for most of the first week and the whole “tanking to get out of gold” becomes rather irrelevant

Mag not even trying is what lead me to quit the server yesterday. I finally had enough of this BS attitude permeating the server. When it is to the point where you aren’t outnumbered and nobody on your BL help you defend garri when you asked for it several times you realize you are very alone who wants to play and contribute. Failing to keep an objective is perfectly acceptable but not even trying, all the time, despite asking for help is not. I even got laugh at for speaking my mind about it…

Long story short, yeah, not trying to win can be bad for your community. Moreso than not winning if you ask me. I decided to try SoR, thinking it was a server that probably learned something out of it’s previous debacle. I’ll see how it will go, maybe it won’t be better after all. However, the first thing that jumped in my face when I started playing there was people saying “please” and “thank you”… and I realized it had been a looooooong time since I experienced something that should be taken for granted among adults…

To be continued…

Julie Yann.5379:

I was in the last place of Gold league for both season 1 and season 2. I wish my server would have tanked instead of getting facerolled for 9 weeks. Being so close to being stuck in last place Gold again I am definitely pro tank. No way am I going to put up with it again. Servers don’t tank because of rewards they tank because get owned for weeks on end is no kittening fun. We want close to fair fights but Anet is either unable or unwilling to fix the population/coverage disparity between servers.

This season is considerably shorter which will help not completely destroy a servers morale but even then, 4 weeks is still a pretty long time to get kitten on.

I find this line of thinking pretty dubious. So because you fear to have 4 weeks of curb-stomping you are willing to have several weeks of curb-stomping before the tournament to “tank”. Of course, the effect on the server morale will be soooo different, make sense… :/

This is not only illogical, it’s cheap.

Straegen.2938:

Reverence.6915:

Watching the tanking going on right now is sad

Not sure why this is sad. Practically no server wants to fight for weeks against a vastly more numerous foe. Being backed up to the legendaries EVERY DAY might seem like fun looking down from BG but trust me it sucks. There is no challenge or competition in T2 any longer and it sucks for everyone in it including SoS.

I’m from Mag and I find this sad. When we actually care to play we can do pretty well against FA and SoS. Maybe not win but still have tons of great fights and a very decent score. The attitude is what sux.

I understand the idea behind the strategy and how well-intended it is but I can’t agree with it.

Deli.1302:

If you are bored when defending, you’re doing it wrong. There are way too many things you need to run around and take care of, there’s no time to get bored.

Refresh siege.
Build siege.
Escort yaks.
Defend camps.
Upgrade camps.
Kill roamers.
Scout large groups.

Completely agree. The only reason to be bored is if you only are motivated by fights and fights alone.

Personally, I try to do a bit of everything so nothing feels redundant. Grinding is what kills me.

Of course fighting is what is the most interesting but everything is important and doesn’t have to be boring. This is a game of conquest not a multi-skirmish setting…

lioka qiao.8734:

Where’s the merit in forcing Dragonbrand to destroy our WvW playerbase by pushing up to gold because tanking is cheating?

The matchup score system does not always accurately reflect a server’s capability. This especially when a high tier server stops wvwing. If ANET were to intervene in placing us I hope it would be with T3, a weight class where DB belongs. We’re not ready to heavy hit with T2. We have glaring coverage gaps where they’ll rip us to shreds.

Here Sirbeaumerdier would have us go to gold and get destroyed for 4 weeks just on the individual merit of tanking is bad. Never mind the larger merit of preserving DB as a WvW server. We’d go to gold and get wrecked and drop like Mags is gonna do.

We need to do a little bit of evil for the greater good.

Someone HAS to go fill that spot. Mag was the server filling that spot the last 2 times, and still probably will, and it is not what destroyed us. FAR from it. I read a lot of irrational thinking here. Loosing in terms of score is not that scary.

DaveGan.8065:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Nice try but this has nothing to do with egocentricity which I could accuse you of too btw. It’s about the consequences of playing the way some do and how damaging it can be for them and the community (what I said was mainly aimed at the WvW community not just me btw). Not all “ideals” or “beliefs” are equally “damaging” to a community or your desire to play. Trying the “all opinions are as valid” route is fallacious. They are not. We are sharing opinions here, which is our right to do, but some are a lot harder to defend then others.

I have never criticized your beliefs. My only criticism is your imposing of your beliefs on others and judging others based on your beliefs (of “fun” and “reward” especially). You are free to call me out on egocentricity, but I challenge you to back it up.

I think our position is easy to hold and defend. There are even multiple avenues of doing so.

• The social contract is broken. Reward should be directly proportion to effort. This is not only not directly proportional, but is not even a flat line. Instead the relationship is an inversely proportional one.
• The ends justify the means. Season 2 was not even or “fun”. T3 WvW right now is very balanced and fun. This server has a choice of no fun for the next few weeks or no fun in Season 3 when things matter more.

None of the people tanking on Dragonbrand are disallowing the rest of the server to try. We are just making sarcastic jokes about how bad this server is and has been at tanking. They are free to continue, and you are even free to encourage them to try even harder now that the challenge is greater for them. After all, you said 1v5 in sPvP would be a fun challenge, right?

I apologize if I do come down as passing judgement. Despite my intent I can only agree that I am doing so. I totally agree with the idea argued around the social contract. It is how it should be: a TRUE meritocracy (not possible but we should still strive toward it nonetheless). In fact, I argue the same IRL.

The part where “the end justify the mean”, however, is not something I’m so easily adhering to for a lot of reasons that I will leave aside. Still, I was more interested in empowering ppl in ways that has less negative impact on others. Sure, tanking is a strategy that can achieve a desired result but it has collateral damage to not just other servers, but to yours too. Trying to find fun it the game itself rather than in it’s externalities has less negative impacts for others while aiming for the same goal: fun. It is what I wanted to expressed. I did so poorly, but it was the intent behind it all.

DaveGan.8065:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I rarely felt “punished” by defending and it can be very rewarding in terms of fun (the only currency that should matter). As for the “poor” people playing something they don’t like, are they mentally challenged or masochist? I hate EoTM and would never forced myself into it no matter if there are achievements and better loot.

If you want a better example of WvW “punishment” try trebbing a T3 alone for 20 minutes (making you instrumental in the objective capture) but getting ZERO reward, not even bronze level, because no NPC were killed. That sux big time. But even THAT is a choice I make that can be “fun” if I like playing an important part that benefit the server. My reward is the sentiment to have done what needed to be done.

PvErs force themselves through this crap so they get nice looking skins. Again the ends (weapon skins) justify the means (choring through something boring and, in Dragonbrand’s case last season, hopeless)

Your egocentricity is getting really tiresome though. You have your own personal beliefs and ideals, and, rather than think about those of others, you choose to impose your own beliefs as the only way and judge others for not following them.

Nice try but this has nothing to do with egocentricity which I could accuse you of too btw. It’s about the consequences of playing the way some do and how damaging it can be for them and the community (what I said was mainly aimed at the WvW community not just me btw). Not all “ideals” or “beliefs” are equally “damaging” to a community or your desire to play. Trying the “all opinions are as valid” route is fallacious. They are not. We are sharing opinions here, which is our right to do, but some are a lot harder to defend then others.

Swamurabi.7890:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Swamurabi.7890:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

DaveGan.8065:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Too many play to win instead of playing as winners regardless of end results. If your server is so full of people who will only play if they win it might be good news for you if they go elsewhere…

When rewards are involved all bets and honor are off. We may not change your mind but there is no longer any guilt in manipulating the outcome taking a break from WvW for the next few weeks.

No wonder the world circle the drain…

WvW tournaments are like having a sPvP tournament where instead of 5 man teams, one side gets 5 and the other gets 4, or 3, or 2, or 1.

Would you play in that tournament? Didn’t think so.

Except they are not the same since it is accepted that it is unequal from the get go. It’s why they have STRUCTURED pvp where all is controlled and WvW where nothing is. BTW, YES, I would still try to win even alone.

But it wouldn’t be FUN, and not having FUN means you are not likely to continue doing it, which is why WvW is dying.

I disagree. I can be fun to be at a disadvantage.

DaveGan.8065:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

A-Net does share responsibility. It is true. It’s the part where ppl won’t even try if there is no external carrot that I find sad.

There’s a difference between “no external carrot” and being punished. In the context of defending in WvW, one is like “great job keeping watch and deterring the enemy, here’s nothing for your efforts!” while the other is closer to “great job keeping watch and deterring the enemy, we’re now taking 5 gold from each of you!”

Also keep in mind a lot of the players who participate in these tournaments don’t find WvW fun in the first place.

I rarely felt “punished” by defending and it can be very rewarding in terms of fun (the only currency that should matter). As for the “poor” people playing something they don’t like, are they mentally challenged or masochist? I hate EoTM and would never forced myself into it no matter if there are achievements and better loot.

If you want a better example of WvW “punishment” try trebbing a T3 alone for 20 minutes (making you instrumental in the objective capture) but getting ZERO reward, not even bronze level, because no NPC were killed. That sux big time. But even THAT is a choice I make that can be “fun” if I like playing an important part that benefit the server. My reward is the sentiment to have done what needed to be done.

Swamurabi.7890:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

DaveGan.8065:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Too many play to win instead of playing as winners regardless of end results. If your server is so full of people who will only play if they win it might be good news for you if they go elsewhere…

When rewards are involved all bets and honor are off. We may not change your mind but there is no longer any guilt in manipulating the outcome taking a break from WvW for the next few weeks.

No wonder the world circle the drain…

WvW tournaments are like having a sPvP tournament where instead of 5 man teams, one side gets 5 and the other gets 4, or 3, or 2, or 1.

Would you play in that tournament? Didn’t think so.

Except they are not the same since it is accepted that it is unequal from the get go. It’s why they have STRUCTURED pvp where all is controlled and WvW where nothing is. BTW, YES, I would still try to win even alone.

DaveGan.8065:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

No wonder the world circle the drain…

You act as if it’s completely our fault. When the system tells you “we’ll significantly punish whoever of you in this group (T3 level servers) tries the hardest” you can bet that people on those servers stop wanting to try and have the same feelings toward ANet that you’re expressing to us.

The ends 110% justify the means, and there is nothing ANet can do to punish the server that is worse than the outcome achieved by “trying hard”. Perhaps you could focus just a bit of that outrage toward them as well.

A-Net does share responsibility. It is true. It’s the part where ppl won’t even try if there is no external carrot that I find sad.

DaveGan.8065:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Too many play to win instead of playing as winners regardless of end results. If your server is so full of people who will only play if they win it might be good news for you if they go elsewhere…

When rewards are involved all bets and honor are off. We may not change your mind but there is no longer any guilt in manipulating the outcome taking a break from WvW for the next few weeks.

No wonder the world circle the drain…

sirflamesword.3896:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

It is still a sad way to behave. The one that truly deserve the spot should be the one that get there period. Mag was demolished in all the tournaments and it is not what is making us implode now. Yes, whoever end-up 6th in gold league is doomed. You will at best be 5th if you try effing hard. But knowing this in advance there is no shame in not making the best score. Too many play to win instead of playing as winners regardless of end results. If your server is so full of people who will only play if they win it might be good news for you if they go elsewhere…

I don’t think you understand, T3 is FUN right now. There are 5 VERY even servers right now. If Season 3 is set up even halfway decent, and none of us end up having to move into gold, it’s going to be a fun 4 weeks for all of us. Of course this could all be for nothing if we don’t even fight each other and have to fight the lower servers in Silver for the 4 weeks….

Believe me I do understand. The ironic part for Mag is that the first few weeks vs SoS and FA was extremely FUN and decided on Friday (it tells you a lot about what actually went wrong). However, someone has to fill that spot and if someone does it has to be the real strongest server that get it. It’s not just fair, it is logical.

lioka qiao.8734:

DB is tanking because we know what happened to us last season. We ended up in gold with no coverage to actually be able to compete on that level. We were constantly out numbered in wvw. This destroyed our playerbase. Our fairweathers went back to pve. Our guilds got jaded and transferred off with the exception of the few loyal ones.

Gold sucked.

That’s why we’re trying to stay silver T3. The servers at this tier are even matches for us. It can be anyone’s game. That keeps us fighting through thursday afternoon. It will be healthier for our community as fairweathers will come out. Our guilds need new faces to replenish our rosters.

We’re not trying to game the system for easier rewards. We’re trying to keep our server’s WvW population intact. That won’t happen in T2 so we have to tank to stay in T3.

It is still a sad way to behave. The one that truly deserve the spot should be the one that get there period. Mag was demolished in all the tournaments and it is not what is making us implode now. Yes, whoever end-up 6th in gold league is doomed. You will at best be 5th if you try effing hard. But knowing this in advance there is no shame in not making the best score. Too many play to win instead of playing as winners regardless of end results. If your server is so full of people who will only play if they win it might be good news for you if they go elsewhere…

I guess I’ll never understand 80% of the ppl…

AmFah.5974:

how many guys made it yet? =D

thanks to everyone for joining in the good and in the bad times,

supporting me and bein on the battlefield!

im not getting any more wxp, the wxp bar is just full and it shows:

49,979,000 / 49,979,000 WvW Experience

Are you some kind of bot? Seriously is there enough hours in a year to make that much WXP?

This is the kind of achieve where I’m torn appart between saying “congrat” and “get a life”. I can’t help but see the guy in South park episode “make love not Warcraft”.

Exept I hate EoTM. Doubly what it has become. I’m not motivated by easy loot sorry.

Tanking does tremendous damage to the server. It’s pretty bad for any community to experiment several weeks of desertification and poor gaming just to “place” your server in a spot where it doesn’t belong and where any win will mean squat.

T raw.4658:

Only one to blame is ArenaNet

No, sorry but this is not true. Take your responsibilities people. It’s also our fault. We can decide to play or not and many decided not to. We aren’t loosers because we have less points, we are losers because we act accordingly.

Whoever decide to tank the match to be in a “better spot” is a sore looser, not a winner. What will you winning cardboard matches prove? That you are good? Uh, please… That you are clever? Sure, you are the only one who ever thought of doing something like that…

Do your best out of respect for the enemy, but first and foremost for you.

Athakron.6791:

I have been a member of Dragonbrand for 2years and I am frustrated by the fact that WvW guilds are not playing in an effort to manipulate the tournament tier we will be placed it. Currently It looks like if we keep tanking (score now =95 ppt) we will be in tier 3.

I agree that last year we were in tier2 and it was awful being the ping pong ball getting beat on and users left or gave up within the first week, also the fact that we have had many of our top guilds leave dragonbrand this year. But to not play! Or better yet, guilds expect members not to WvW. ANET you loose customers that way.

It looks like Maguma is doing the same thing.

ANET / People : Is there someway to organize these tournaments without having guilds stop playing?

I’m from Mag and if we did this I am totally disgusted. Frankly, seeing just how bad things are ATM I wouldn’t be surprised that what “look like” tanking is in fact reality. Mag is in a pretty sorry state…

Mich.3981:

Please do not nerf the tornado/meteor shower combo for eles. This is the one combo that makes ele’s hugely viable in WvW, and it is not overpowered. It is easy to dodge, considering the fact that meteors don’t always hit when enemy are inside the radius, and the tornado combo is actually very balanced. Although all skills cast prior to using tornado are made much more powerful, the equalizing factor is that you can’t cast anymore spells while in tornado form. This means based on the duration of previously cast spells, you are only getting at a maximum under 7 seconds of greater damage for all spells cast. After those 7 seconds (the duration of meteor, the longest possible cast), tornado is not very useful besides the extra stability. Please listen to the community on this one, as I know no one wants this change. It will hurt ele’s a lot more than it will balance the classes which I understand is the intended reasoning behind this nerf. If anyone else agrees, please comment to show Anet that you agree that tornado/meteor combo should not be nerfed.

Even with no elite skill slot at all the Ele is highly viable anywhere.

That being said, I do think some changes were not very well thought of. Removing the dynamic power upgrade of the tornado is one thing but failing to understand why almost nobody would use it BUT for that feature is quite another.

As is, the tornado skill is almost unusable in WvW since it ask the squishiest profession to go into melee to be used to very non-elite efficiency while removing any active defense we had to our skill bar (in other word a big “kick me” sign in our back for zergs). That change should have come with something that could have make it viable as intended (a major boost in toughness would be a way I guess) instead of just removing the only incentive that it had. It’s not like the Meteornado was THAT powerful to begin with anyway since it was easy to avoid most of the time.

A applaud of them looking into stuff not used “as intended” but question the point of it all if it’s only for the shake of it and will kill the Ele elite skill slot (considering FGS nerf too).

There is nothing to fix about AC. It’s some players head that need to be “fixed”.

8/10. Maybe a bit too mainstream for me, but I like it. Great staff btw :p

I agre too. Beside, how pathetic can you be if the only reason to transfer is to get some more reward? A-Net should just send these people their reward via mail but exclude them from WvW.

TroniXx.8513:

So, next wvw tournament starts in 3 weeks.
On which server do we stack on this time for maximum loot??
SFR again, or Deso maybe??

How about just don’t?

Straegen.2938:

Zergs are like traffic. Complaining about it while being in one is absurd since that person is part of the problem. If you don’t want to fight a zerg, don’t be in one… roam, skirmish, GvG there are lots of other ways to play the game than follow a dorito chip.

Exactly! Nobody was/is ever forced to follow a commander. If you don’t like to play that way try doing something else. I personally try to do a bit of everything.

The FGS rush is understandable but they still have to make that skill “elite” worthy. When I see the ice bow AoE doing more damage than the FGS AoE I’m baffled. How can a non-elite do something better than it’s elite version? It’s just not acceptable.

As for the Tornado they better rework it completely if they are to rempove the only reason why people were using it. At least give a huge buff in Thouhness if they insist on making it a melee skill. Logic 101. Ele does have very poor elite ATM they never truly felt elite at all.

nearlight.3064:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

oxtred.7658:

No , it’s not good. Cleric is selfish, and traiting for personal survivability is selfish as well. In dungeons, the best support you can bring as an ele is fire fields, might stacks, fury, projectile absorbtion, vuln, and conjures. The small healing from cleric doesn’t help against OHKO, and it’s better to avoid the damage with focus 4 for instance than healing allies after the hit. The dps of a 02066 ele is obviously awful, and you need persisting flames and weak spot if you’re the only elementalist in the group. You can play how you want, but it’s detrimental to your team.

Playing devil’s advocate, on the flip side, always being down is VERY detrimental to your team in every aspect including DPS (not much DPS from a corpe now is there?). If you can’t play Zerker you are better of with anything else. At least you will do something for the team. Sure it will take a few more seconds to complete encounters, but if someone seriously play a game like it’s a business where every minutes count they have issues IMHO and are themselves super selfish and theefore in no position to point any fingers on the matter.

It’s called dodging and avoiding kittenty groups. Against some bosses, yeah you will go down if your team can’t do enough damage, like the slave driver or god forbid simin in arah.

If you can’t handle zerker gear, then don’t join zerker parties in clerics gear. For casualer runs, if you can’t survive, do valkyrie or knights with zerker trinkets if you can’t handle surviving…

Clerics is honestly kittenty for Pve unless you’re soloing the orb in arah.

Haviz/Zelyhn have beginner builds in their guide on dulfy you should read. Also in general D/F will be most helpful for a beginner maintaining surviability and damage in full zerk. Also icebows are a must for most builds if you didn’t know that.

I agree that people should avoid LFG that specifically say “speed run, meta zerker only” kind of stuff. Like I said, I’m playing devil’s advocate.

That being said, too often people don’t specify that much in their LFG (they forgot or they just don’t care for a run) and some people accept to join but are kitten when they see they are in a group that just don’t feel like rushing anything. Will a few more minutes really kill them? Apparently for some the answer is yes…

oxtred.7658:

No , it’s not good. Cleric is selfish, and traiting for personal survivability is selfish as well. In dungeons, the best support you can bring as an ele is fire fields, might stacks, fury, projectile absorbtion, vuln, and conjures. The small healing from cleric doesn’t help against OHKO, and it’s better to avoid the damage with focus 4 for instance than healing allies after the hit. The dps of a 02066 ele is obviously awful, and you need persisting flames and weak spot if you’re the only elementalist in the group. You can play how you want, but it’s detrimental to your team.

Playing devil’s advocate, on the flip side, always being down is VERY detrimental to your team in every aspect including DPS (not much DPS from a corpe now is there?). If you can’t play Zerker you are better of with anything else. At least you will do something for the team. Sure it will take a few more seconds to complete encounters, but if someone seriously play a game like it’s a business where every minutes count they have issues IMHO and are themselves super selfish and theefore in no position to point any fingers on the matter.

aelfric.8536:

Hello guys

I have some playtime in WvW on my thief. Now I want to try my 80 Ele in Wvw. I’d like to play with stuff, cause I like the positioning play the staff brings with all those fields.

Usually I don’t go with the zerg. I prefer small scale or roaming.

On GW2Skills I put together this build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFAWhUMKc24wzBf0AWAC5YjaJKQ5l7CC-TFCBwAYVmB4CA45BAQb/hU6Ayp+jWlGoVCGAABgbezbezbezSBExyI-w

Keep in mind, that I can’t afford the ascended gear just ascended trinkets.

What do you think? Are the overall stats and trait distribution ok?

Any help appreciated

- aelfric

I roam with a staff ele using 6 water and 6 arcana BUT all my gear is zerker. Also, I Iike to use a sigil of energy to provide me with a much needed stamina recovery while the other rune is more damage oriented. For me and the skill level I have it is a good compromise that has been quite successful no matter if I was roaming or in a zerg.

Diem.3529:

_1) What do you like best about WvW? What keeps making you come back for more? What keeps you interested or keeps it fun?

It has a bit of everything in it and can be very challenging if you want it to be.

2) What do you like least about WvW? What makes you frustrated about it or makes you want to stop WvW in favor of something else like PvE, PvP or even EotM? (I consider EotM play separate).

Some players attitude that literally kill the game and pollute the server atmosphere. They hate it, but they can’t help playing while whining about how it should be otherwise… sight

3) What tier are you in?

T2

4) Have you switched servers for WvW? Why?

Once because my friends wanted to move there. I may eventually change again to go on a more community friendly server. Need to convince others though…

Well, beating a thief with a D/D build and doing so with a staff (what I play with most of the time when I roam) are two very different propositions. A lot here seem to assume D/D when they answer or are facing pretty bad thieves to face roll them with any weapons…

gaurav.7340:

So I didn’t know a staff ele could be an option in tpvp, just saw this video and thinking of giving it a try

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDe4InTC7wI

Do people play full dps staff ele that frequently, I’m not sure how viable it is in current meta.

I do play a staff ele in Tpvp but wasn’t aware it was THAT rare. It is fun and does ask you to work out quite a bit but it is very rewarding.

King Amadaeus.8619:

Stop playing ppt, seriously cannot believe people still do defense.

I still do. Some of you people should stop talking for the entire planet. You don’t like PPT? Well, go do something else elsewhere. Not very difficult.

I play the points. I defend as much as I can. I repair all I can and I pay for all the upgrades I can even on friday. Do you think I do so because I’m too stupid to understand that it’s all going to be wasted in a few hours? I do so because I accept the game for what it is and I have fun doing it.

Stop wanting rewards for no other reason than to motivate you playing. If the game isn’t a reward in itself than go do something else. If the only reason to defend an objective is the loot or the xp then please go %?& elsewhere preferably outside WvW.

Several of you ppl need to learn to push the PvP cross swords icon or just change for another game instead of whinning about how WvW is broken or whatelse. You don’t like it anyway so why punish yourselves playing WvW? This is just dumb and very bad for the server and those who like all that WvW is including, but not limited to, the fights.

I’m so tired of this BS, elitist and childish attitude that has become more and more common.

Raven.9603:

REMOVE AOE DMG CAPS – This has been said again and again. The 5 player cap on AOE damage is what allows the stupid stacking zergball tactics to exist. Without AOE caps, a small group could easily wreck a stacking zerg. ANet has a cap in place because they can’t handle performance problems. Thats not good enough, its not a solution, if you have to break your game mode just to fix the performance you ****** up.

Here we agree. That being said, I think it has more to do with performance than anything else.

REMOVE ARROW CARTS – I don’t think this really needs explanation. These have zero business being in the game. Players kill players, siege kills walls and doors.

Here I strongly disagree. Ac are often all that stands between a much stronger force and total defeat. How many time was I able to hold an objective long enough to hope for any reinforcements in the face of impossible odds? You are fighting a war and your enemy has the same options as you.

REMOVE COMMANDER TAGS – Oh man, a community would have to form up and talk to each other to organize instead of mindlessly logging in and following the blue condom to safe wvw experience with no risk of shame or accidental pregnancy?

I’m on the fence about this one. I see what you mean but at the same time I never felt obligated to follow anyone anywhere. I follow it when we need numbers to take a big objective otherwise I roam. In the end players have to take responsibility for their play style and what game they chose to play as opposed to the game they would have wanted to play…

Overall, there is nothing Anet can do to make this game as good as DAoC, because they don’t care and we don’t care.

How about stop not caring?

They don’t care because, despite wvw being the people who keep the game afloat in between story updates, PvE was the best short term profit and sPvP / e-sports was their best hope at long term profit (and fame). And games are all about money. They are never going to break into LoL level e-sports because they didn’t have ladders or tournaments ready to go out the gate, and no one wants to e-sport in a game that doesn’t have hype no matter how much better sPvP has gotten. There is no recovering from that, and its too late to win the people back.

I don’t get this reasoning to be honest. How is WvW less profitable? I mean WvW players are gem buyers too no? I would know. If WvW is what retain players in the game after they have finished the story, and they eventually all do, they have pretty good incentive to make the WvW players want to stay. I also don’t see any evidences that PvP people are buying less gems and are less attracted to buying a unique look.

We don’t care because half of what made DAoC great was the community, and the WvW community in GW2 is not full of greatness. If 5 players run into a single player, they will mow him down. If 10 players are engaged in a 5v5, any zerg nearby will mow them down. There is no respect for letting people have their fights, there is no honor.

Well, here is where you can do something I would say. The community, on my server at least, as been deteriorating a lot it is true. But I really don’t see this as A-Net problem only. Maybe if players would stop mistaking the cross sword icon for the fortification one, they would feel better. I mean if you are complaining about any enemy trying to run you down when they see you, no matter the number, you are not in the right place. WvW is a battlefield not some Olympic scrimmage with a referee shouting “fight!” and “break”.

WALL CLIMBING – You wear medium armor? Congrats. You can attempt to ninja a tower (of course, the tower should be claimed and sending messages to the guild that owns it, and there should be special guards that ignore stealth to limit small groups directly hitting the lord, especially in keeps or as towers are upgraded), or in large battles are the force we need to clear the walls. Why do we need to clear the walls if there are no arrow carts?

I can see how that will help offset the number advantage (sarcasm). Very bad idea if you ask me.

ELEVATION DAMAGE – People who are higher up hit people below them much, much harder. Ranged classes replace arrow carts for keep defense. This also creates interesting defense options for ambushing people in passes, etc.

See above. Also, would that include my meteors that already comes from the sky? Meh.

NEW FREAKIN MAPS – Randomized each matchup, or maybe have each one be persistent to your own home world so you develop a home field advantage over time, what ever. Same map x3 = fail sauce.

As long as all maps are equivalent I’m all for it too.

Straegen.2938:

Lachanche.6859:

At least for me the answer is no aoe cap.
An organized small team could wipe out a random zerg on daoc, in gw2 that’s simply not possible and fights end up being numbers vs numbers.

That is effectively impossible for a variety of reasons. It would be far easier (and far more beneficial to the engine) to completely remove AoE or at the very least chop the number of AoE skills down immensely. AoE is actually one of the banes of performance in GW2.

No AoE would be bad too. AoE bring another dimension to the game that I like.