his letter was a vague mashup of keywords. nothing is going to change, and if something does change, they are going to kitten it up. history doesn’t lie
But historians do.
Muahahahah.
To everything you state in your article I feel nothing but admiration and an overwhelming feeling of “Yes, yes, yes that’s the way I feel.”
Some parts of WvW are extremely fun (small duels, large open field battles, but also the sieging part you mention). Others are just lacking (like the way zergs function, the lesser rewards for people who do valuable things, the lack of guild content and the fails in the commander system).
The fact that you recognize these issues and are willing to do something about them, makes you and your team more than the WvW community could ever wish for.
I hope the changes will be as promising as you make them sound and that we will find WvW ever more interesting and challenging!
ps. forget about the babies, you don’t have time for that!
Het geheim: Eet spikittene, wordt je sterk van!
In some situations it is better not to stack up and buff might, lately we engage a enemy more often without then with stacking. It really depends on the sitatuation, sometimes its better to engage without stacking for several reasons trust me. A quick hit can be way more effective then a few stacks of might.
Hoop jullie voor reset nog tegen te komen in meer gebalaceerde situatie zodat het voor jullie ook een plezier kan zijn
Dutch as a last resort?
Waarom is spi"n @ z. i"e gefilterd? Thanks for the 3 copper, way closer to commander now. :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7a0GdKG1X9Q
we love you arborstone.
Ps: Bored of Sieging?..[XxX] is now recruiting experienced WvW players who enjoy action within a dedicated team! For more information check http://oncewerenoobs.shivtr.com/
ERROR. FAILED TO OBLIGE. SYSTEM SHUT DOWN IN… 3-2-1.
XxX big guild?we run with 15/17 ppl max lol
XxX 15/25?wow dunno that we run 15 max 18 near the end of the evening:/
If you start recruiting you’ll be more than 17-18! OH NOOO!
For that record… [AoS] is recruiting and we don’t deny being more than 17. Muhahahah.
Aww, too bad you don’t want to do WvW. My guild does PvE a lot, and PvP sometimes for fun, but we also do 1 weekly WvW event that is mandatory.
Good luck in your quest for the right guild!
We’re still recruiting
Yeah a direct link to our site would be a ton easier, this way we just tell people, go to guild menu, click the link, bam you’re there.
Hi! Welcome to the recruitment for the Alliance of Shadows [AoS]. We are a small roaming guild that has been founded the 2nd of June. We originate from The Old Boys, a PvX guild on Gandara. We have decided to split off in order to pursue the glorious prospect of badge farming, zerg crushing and yak slaying! We will also do a few PvE and SPvP events alongside the WvW!
If you are an all-round player (like WvW & SPvP, or WvW & PvE or all) and want a guild where everyone is your friend, unlike the standard 500 man guilds where you’re just a number, give us a go!
- Small scale: you’re not a number, you’re a person
- Free WXP & badges in WvW
- No mindless zerging, real strategy, real fun!
- Access to a private custom arena (when they’re released)
- Gold farm with members when we’re not in WvW
- Weekly fractals & dungeons
- Guild vs. Guild
- Dueling with guild mates in Heart of the Mists
- Healer (elementalist & guardian)
- CC (hammer warrior & guardian, necromancer, ranger)
- DPS (warrior, elementalist, ranger, engineer)
- Deception (mesmer & thief)
- Dedicated WvW player
- Willing to attend to WvW & PvP events if online
- At least one level 80 character (for GvG)
- Located on Gandara
- Access to teamspeak 3 (no mic required)
- Friendly, helpful & active
- Imperator: Jay Scimmia
- Tribune: Váel
- Arena Master: Forest Protector
- Dragon Master: Howlyne
- War Master: Slideshow
- Veterans: the epic guys
- Recruits: new people we’ll teach to be epic
Site: http://allianceofshadows.enjin.com/home
In-game: see rank list
Forum thread: leave a message!
Is this exactly what you are looking for? Don’t hesitate any longer and join us!
XxX 15/25?wow dunno that we run 15 max 18 near the end of the evening:/
Another one hahaha, we all love you XxX
Nice fights on FSP BL, too bad gandara was outnumbered. [AoS] and some pugs captured Briar, then Lake, but got driven back when trying to take Hills. Then FSP took Lake back, but we captured it again in the end
Greetings from Vael & [AoS]
Well i’m ok with guild commander tag, as long as it isn’t being paid with commendations, but with influence. As for normal commander, I only said add an option for badges, not “only let them be bought with badges”.
- the colosseum already exists in Black Citadel! Anet can easily use the existing model and make it a PvP duel arena.
what if, people want a place outside of WvW where people can fight in their PvE armor?
Uh well that’s why I suggested that. It’s in PvE area, you can use PvE gear there and fight anyone you like, in different modes. I don’t know if the colosseum in Black Citadel is big enough for letting a lot of players in, but maybe they can make it instanced, like the dungeons. Colosseum can of course also be added as a SPvP map.
Now for a more serious post regarding your topic.
We already have a “broomstick” mount. I wouldn’t mind race specific “mounts” like the broomstick one. It will be cosmetic only and adds no movement speed (I don’t think it takes that long to run around maps, really).
Sylvari: Oakheart
Charr: Mechanical motorcycle/4 wheeler
Human: Moa/cow/bull (have yet to see a horse)
Asura: Golem
Norn: Dolyak
Yep if they’re purely cosmetic and let you use your utility skills while on them. No speed boosts involved in the mount itself, just let us sit on them, i’m sure it’ll look cool.
Commander Icons
General PVE Commander Icon = Purchasable With Gold
WVW Commander Icon = Purchasable With WVW Point System
Dungeon Commander Icon = Purchasable with Dungeon Tokens
Guild Commander Icon = Purchasable with Guild Commendations.
-Different color map Icons for each type of commander icon.Likely late for this type of change now but… this is something that should have been separate from the start IMO.
I would like to know if the people I’m rolling dungeons with have a tag that shows they know what they are doing… same with WvW Commanders. General PvE Commanders… would be nice for zergs or general directions etc… and Guild Commanders for easy locating during guild missions and such.
Anyway… that’s it.
All the best,
SKiNBuS.
The only one I like is Guild Commander. This is something we really need, not only for big guilds, also for small ones. I don’t think they should be bought with commendations though, cause that would exclude a big share of the community of ever getting them (guilds without guild missions). I think it would be best if they let them be bought through influence (50k influence = 100g), and the leader of the guild can give them out to people who are responsible for WvW.
Also add a way to buy normal commander for WvW with badges please
Hey there people, AoS on gandara is looking for SPvP members as well as WvW members. We will do weekly events in both areas (as well as fractals & dungeons).
Our focus lies on WvW, but we want to bring a SPvP team together, for funs, because a lot of our members like SPvP aswell and we will buy a custom arena for guild use only once they come out! We will then do 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 match-ups, without point-capping! This arena can be used both by players who like to SPvP but also to train WvW tactics!
Join us if you want to have a chance to show real skill! We are open to european members as well as people on gandara! Any rank can join us, cause we want people to learn from eachother. We can do 1v1 between high rankers and spectate. We might also introduce wagers!
Visit us:
http://allianceofshadows.enjin.com/home
Contact us:
Jay Scimmia (Imperator)
Váel (Tribune)
Forest Protector (Arena Master)
(edited by Sirendor.1394)
Hi! Welcome to the recruitment for the Alliance of Shadows [AoS]. We are a small roaming guild that has been founded today the 2nd of June. We originate from The Old Boys, a PvX guild on Gandara. We have decided to split off in order to pursue the glorious prospect of badge farming, zerg crushing and yak slaying! We will also do a few PvE and SPvP events alongside the WvW.
- Small scale: you’re not a number, you’re a person
- Free WXP & badges
- No mindless zerging, real strategy, real fun!
- Access to a private custom arena (when they’re released)
- Gold farm with members when we’re not in WvW
- Fractals & dungeons
- Guild vs. Guild
- Healer (elementalist & guardian)
- CC (hammer warrior & guardian, necromancer, ranger)
- DPS (warrior, elementalist, ranger, engineer)
- Deception (mesmer & thief)
- Dedicated WvW player
- Willing to attend to WvW & PvP events if online
- At least one level 80 character (for GvG)
- Located on Gandara
- Access to teamspeak 3 (no mic required)
- Friendly, helpful & active
- Jay Scimmia, Jay Fantasma
- Vael Icarium, Vael ashstorm
- Howlyne
- Shybo Steelsong
- Ariana Astraea
- Coreyiow
- Slideshow
- Kenny Mack
- Leo wartrain, Arcos Septim
- Perttu K
- Icy Shadowfire
- Forest protector, Super partia,
- Dreamer Girl
- Arutha.1892
- Cloud Baneheart
- Si ann
- Thygg
- Keso Whiteborn
- Sirahel
- Baakir
- …
Site: http://allianceofshadows.enjin.com/home
In-game: see member list
Forum thread: leave a message!
Is this exactly what you are looking for? Don’t hesitate any longer and join us!
YES PLEASE! We need this to show players when events are.
There is nothing wrong with this matchup, Im sure arborstone appreciate the new competition and they can probably learn alot from meeting new opponents. You don’t see them crying here….
im quite ashamed to be FSP now cause of all this trashtalk, FSP has steamrolled other servers just like gandara is doing right now and im quite sure Gandara is super happy right now cause they not meeting Abbadons mouth. We all remember the AM blobbs and we all still have nightmares about them… Gandara is not blobbing up they have very good zergs.
and to be honest I never really ever seen Gandara guild groups running with commander and a gazillion pugs. But if its going well for a server ofcourse alot of pugs will join to get their POI and vistas and naturally stick around a little to steamroll other servers :P
But now that the weekend is over lets see how it goes =)
Spoken like a true baws.
We number 18 people now, each of them likes playing WvW, SPvP for fun and PvE for gold. If you’re interested in WvW, willing to play with us, leave us a message. Thanks!
We’re also open for fun practices in GvG (10 vs. 10), in a limited time, after we’ve set up all the events etc.
I have left the Old Boys, please contact Vestra Grey for an invitation now.
I feel for you guys. Been trying to find small skirmishes but every time I find 1 Arborstone or Shiverpeak person, 20 Gandarians appears out of nowhere. It’s almost impossible to get any decent fights now :<
Same here T-T
Simple: Cuz of lack of AB players, gandara easily takes their bl/eb spot.. At day and at night since they have the numbers to do so.. This has nothing to do with skill or tactics whatsoever (except for yak,XxX,MM..)
WvW basically comes down to numbers this week, simple as that
Although had some good fights! Like 2vs2 but then suddenly a zerg +40 passes and ya, they didn’t ignored me :p..
So ofc, FSp server got demoralized, aswel part of Arbor server I think.. Which I understand ofc, would be the same with me and many others..
Let’s see what next week is gonna bring!Cheers
I know it is a great issue and I know the guild players try to avoid blobbing, but there are so many PUGs atm, cause Gandara has been beaten down for weeks and now for once we are the strongest.
Me and my guild cherish small scale fights with equal numbers, but usually a blob comes disrupting it. We do try to do some fair fights, e.g. we attacked an AS zerg yesterday near briar with 5 people, and then the gandara zerg smashed them in the flank cause all the AS had started attacking my 5-man team. It’s not like we do nothing else than blobbing, that’s just the PUGs and some of the bigger guilds.
So anyways, if you see some AoS guys running around, lets have a match
(edited by Sirendor.1394)
Site created, you can now visit us at http://allianceofshadows.enjin.com/home
We’ll be adding content soon: screenshots, weekly events, build guides and much more!
Respect to Arborstone for their tries to keep up with us. Sorry to crush you in Bay on your BL and later at Lake, you really tried hard. Thanks for the poking FSP.
Edit: And of course thank you to gandara, though we should zerg a bit less.
(edited by Sirendor.1394)
Yeah i agree with this,Arborstone has no place vs us and Gandara espec..they are outmanned all the time,how can this be fun for a server ? It isnt…
Can you please stop speaking for us ? You need to win to have fun ? Good for you, we just need fight to have fun.
I agree with you totally, put points aside in a match up like this and find some great fights and have fun
Its tough to find fights let alone good fights atm … theres just way too many of us compared to AS in particular. Sure its not much fun for you guys being zerged down by uncounterable numbers but for anyone on gandara who likes good fights its pretty crap for us too. This match up system is lousy
That’s the way it is. It’s not fun for neither of the servers. For gandarans, whenever we try to do small scale fights, a gandaran zerg pops up and kills every enemy…
Far shiverpeaks may be stronger than Arborstone but they get hit a lot aswell, by forces that are way too high. Arborstone people are barely ever seen, except near spawn.
I did 3 hours of WvW this afternoon, together with my guild and we frequented Arborstone guys about 3 times, and always only 3-5.
Before we made this guild we often started roaming in primetime and later. We will vary it probably so everyone gets his share. We’ll do both inofficial (during weekdays) as official guild WvW. Today we went in with one team from 15pm till 18pm, will probs do more later.
(edited by Sirendor.1394)
Hello there Cakeinator, I was in the same boat as you are (though I was not leader but officer) and I didn’t really do anything else than WvW anymore, so decided to found a WvW guild. Idk if you are only looking for WvW guilds on your server, but the Alliance of Shadows will gladly welcome you to Gandara!
Ok, so me and a few friends have launched Alliance of Shadows here on gandara, a WvW focused guild. If anyone here wants to be part of a new small scale WvW guild (not exclusively WvW, also PvE for gold farm and SPvP for group training), let us know here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/guilds/guilds/GANDARA-EU-Alliance-of-Shadows-WvW-Guild/first#post2140800
(edited by Sirendor.1394)
Hi! Welcome to the recruitment for the Alliance of Shadows [AoS]. We are a small roaming guild that has been founded today the 2nd of June. We originate from The Old Boys, a PvX guild on Gandara. We have decided to split off in order to pursue the glorious prospect of badge farming, zerg crushing and yak slaying! We will also do a few PvE and SPvP events alongside the WvW.
- Small scale: you’re not a number, you’re a person
- Free WXP & badges
- No mindless zerging, real strategy, real fun!
- Access to a private custom arena (when they’re released)
- Gold farm with members when we’re not in WvW
- Fractals & dungeons
- Guild vs. Guild
- Healer (elementalist & guardian)
- CC (hammer warrior & guardian, necromancer, ranger)
- DPS (warrior, elementalist, ranger, engineer)
- Deception (mesmer & thief)
- Dedicated WvW player
- Willing to attend to WvW & PvP events if online
- At least one level 80 character (for GvG)
- Located on Gandara
- Access to teamspeak 3 (no mic required)
- Friendly, helpful & active
- Jay Scimmia, Jay Fantasma
- Vael Icarium, Vael ashstorm
- Howlyne
- Shybo Steelsong
- Ariana Astraea
- Coreyiow
- Slideshow
- Kenny Mack
- Leo wartrain, Arcos Septim
- Perttu K
- Icy Shadowfire
- Forest protector, Super partia,
- Dreamer Girl
- Arutha.1892
- Cloud Baneheart
- Si ann
- Thygg
- Keso Whiteborn
- Sirahel
- Baakir
- …
Site: http://allianceofshadows.enjin.com/home
In-game: see member list
Forum thread: leave a message!
Is this exactly what you are looking for? Don’t hesitate any longer and join us!
(edited by Sirendor.1394)
Oh i didn’t take offense or anything. I presume 15 probably looks like a lot to the 5 you tend to run anyway. Always nice to be namechecked anyway lol, nice ego boost.
Neither did I, was putting an end to the “But we’re only 15” train
. Np for the name promotion, gotta love your bros.
The reason for having 3 servers is to prevent lopsided fights totally.
You mean total domination by server 1 over server 2. Yet right now we see this: total domination by server 1 over both server 2 and server 3. I think the actual solution lies in adding more servers to the match-ups, maybe 1v2v3v4, 5v6v7v8, 9v10v11v12, …
If one server totally dominates, then you have 3 servers to fight it, so basically more balance and also it will allow for more strategy. Right now either server 1 can attack server 2 or server 3, and the other way around. This doesn’t make for a lot of diversity.
Well there are tons of stuff they can do to help the underdog.
- Half the number of players that can access a map at same time
- Allow alliances between weaker servers who are fighting a stronger one
- Make the maps bigger and allow for more strategy, so numbers don’t mean victory necessarily
- Merge european and north-american servers
- Make low-tier servers have a free transfer for a week.Well hindering players from playing due to numbers isnt really fair. Its not our fault anet f’d their 24 hr pvp system up. Merging EU and NA prolly couldnt work. Que times would last for years, lag would never leave. Just dont think ANET would ever be able to handle it. I still think the only way to fix the state of WvW is NA for NA EU for EU and tht just wont ever happen. This game will slowly die off esp with the new MMOs comming out. Just try to enjoy it or quit the game until a new one comes around is my best advice lol
The consequent suggestion would be to add new zones aswell. If you half the population allowed per zone, then add 3 more zones, the people who can’t join EB and the BL cause they’re full, can join one of the other zones. Of course this might result in completely empty zones dominated by 1 server, but at least it will be a zerg-free experience for these low-population servers.
Edit: I still have some hope for GW2, the combat is very smooth, the graphics nice and realistic and the world is beautiful. I have tried 2 of the new MMORPG’s that came out (Neverwinter and Dragon’s Prophet) and they both suck badly in comparison. I’m willing to take GW2’s flaws for a while longer, if only the devs do something about these problems.
(edited by Sirendor.1394)
Tomorrow our weekly guild bounty & trek (maybe challenge too) at 6pm GMT. Leave a message if you want to join in!
Let’s see now … design a game where population and coverage trumps strategy and skill, then create matchups between factions (servers) that have completely uncontrolled populations, and then throw in some randomization just to spice things up.
Who would have ever thought that wouldn’t work well??
Hahaha, most sarcastic post ever
I agree with some of the above post, NA is for NA players, EU is for EU players etc etc. This crossing of the timezones really screwed WvW up big time. ANET sould haven known the kind of dmg this system was going to cause for people who want to pvp. I think its common sense tht not every single NA server will have massive “nightcappers” as a few do. This lastest random matchup switch kinda shows anet is running out of ideas to keep WvW going. I feel this was one of their last plans to see if WvW will bring ppl back or keep them around and judging by some of the threads/post in matchup threads its doing the complete opposite
I feel you are right, but I hope you are wrong…
They should just start redesigning WvW for the expansion, divide the servers into factions and make the maps larger, or just divide PvE servers from WvW servers all together.
Well there are tons of stuff they can do to help the underdog.
- Half the number of players that can access a map at same time
- Allow alliances between weaker servers who are fighting a stronger one
- Make the maps bigger and allow for more strategy, so numbers don’t mean victory necessarily
- Merge european and north-american servers
- Make low-tier servers have a free transfer for a week.
There is one way to help stabilize server population. Give wxp based on your current server rank. To give an example:
Currently SoR is the top ranked server
ET is the lowest ranked server
Ehmry Bay is the mid ranked serverEhmry Bay would receive the same amount of wxp as today
ET gets twice the amount of wxp
SoR gets 50% the amount of wxpIn other words, there needs to be more incentives for people to move to lower ranked servers.
If you did that i bet alot of the nightcappers would move down for PVDoor and farm the crap out of WXP and just bring a bigger imbalance to a lower tier as well as hurting that upper tier server because now u just threw their coverage off causing more dmg then good
I think that is most likely indeed, this suggestion wouldn’t be good at all, cause it would cause people to transfer all the time, just to get more WXP, making lower tier servers go into a higher rank, then dropping straight down again when they are at lower WXP rate.
Yeah well that’s the thing, the only serious end-game we have is WvW. SPvP is all about point-capping and has no appeal to me at all. WvW still lets us an option for roaming bigger areas, fighting other players and even giving us some rewards for it now. I hope they fix it, cause WvW is the only thing keeping me in the game.
I don’t know if it’s only in WvW either, but I think it might also happen in PvE on dragon events, where there often mass 80+ people.
Revan, what server are you on? If you’re on gandara, or willing to transfer to it, there are still spots in our guild.
Tactics are important, skill is even more important, but if you don’t have the population to commit to WvW you don’t have a chance competing against a server that does.
Does anyone ells feel like this is the big elephant in the room that Anet refuses to address?
What would you do to fix it?
Drop the number of players that can be in a map and add a few more maps. This will allow servers who have only a tiny amount of players (30-50) per map compared to servers with 60-80 on each map to still fight an honest fight, without being zerged flat. They will have plenty of chances to prove their skill and be rewarded for it.
I think the number of players per map should be like 40-50 max then.
XxX big guild?we run with 15/17 ppl max lol
Saw you guys yesterday with 20+… italians can’t count
we was 15 at the start of the evening and 17 near the end:/
Its all relative really, your one of the biggest guild groups on gandara. Offhand only Yak and WvW seem larger. Hell he put us down as one of the large ones too and we probably average around 15 (though our numbers bounce around a lot).
As for the blobbing question, a lot of us try to avoid it because we find it extremely dull.
Last week fighting multiple guild groups all hanging around on the same spot our guild groups had to double up a bit to flank and whatnot from different sides. Theres probably some leftovers on that front with us doing it in situations that dont really warrant it.
Theres pretty much always a pug blob on some map somewhere every day too.We have blobs dont think any of us are naive enough to say otherwise. We hope that if your looking to avoid fighting the blob then you can find some fun elsewhere though
The point wasn’t to have exact numbers of how many players you can drop into wvw each evening, it was just a rough draft, cause you are obviously bigger in your number of WvW players than other guilds in Gandara. (I’m not spying on your guilds
).
Even so the gross of Gandara’s players are brought up by these guilds, and the countless smaller guilds I didn’t call by name.
(edited by Sirendor.1394)
Hello fellow players and devs
Since reset of the match-ups I’ve been experiencing heavy lagg spikes, whenever big masses of players were amassed in WvW. This caused my skills to stop reacting for 10 up to sometimes 30 seconds. I even got kicked out of the game 2 times during similar lagg spikes.
Please devs, either make the amount of players that can come into WvW 50 for every map (and add some more maps) and reduce all the values of defense accordingly or fix this skill lagg by getting yourselves some better servers. I can’t play at all, only thing that I can do is tap button 1, hope I tag as many people as possible and then hope I don’t die, cause my heal isn’t working…
PS. I’m not trying to be spiteful. I really appreciate your work Devon (& co.), you’ve done some nice stuff for us already, but skill lagg is just so hard to play with. We tap skills while nothing happens at all, so how are you supposed to consider who’s the better player if it just comes down to creating a lot of skill lagg and the one with the less lagg at that moment beats the one with the more lagg. Also would like to add that some servers like to use skill lagg to their advantage (Miller’s Sound did so last match-up).
(edited by Sirendor.1394)
I don’t get why they split NA and EU in the first place. The only reason seems to be difference in timezone, but generally I like NA players just as much as EU players.
I bet everyone in this thread feels really bad about themselves now. And you should. Jerks.
They should :P I’m quite sure the developers who work at Anet in the WvW section are doing as much as possible, but I think they just don’t get enough funds and manpower to make WvW what it should be (zergless, balanced, rewarding…). I guess it’s not the best way to go by blaming them, cause they are actually trying to do something. They got us some reward chests, great! Now, all we need is some bigger/more maps, less skill lagg, more strategy and less blobs and acs.
Same goes for me, it’s taking like 4 minutes to launch the game and then it takes 3 more minutes to enter the game. I have played since august and the loading time for me in total was like 2 minutes then…
And then I still get ~2 disconnects daily… wtf?
Oh yeah, want to add, respect to the FSP mesmer on Arborstone BL yesterday who was near isle all the time. He gave us quite the show, though a bit too bad he stealthed so much.
XxX big guild?we run with 15/17 ppl max lol
Saw you guys yesterday with 20+… italians can’t count
(edited by Sirendor.1394)
I am not asking this to start a flame war, its a genuine question, I thought as a server Gandara were against blobbing? Like as a rule of thumb.
To answer this properly, gandara has 2 maior groups of people.
First there are the ‘big’ guilds such as Dius, XxX, DYE, WvW & Yak. The big guilds are usually rolling over the map taken towers and keeps alike with forces of up to ~30.
As of now XxX is not a big guild. [See Nem 01/06/2013 2pm]
Second there are smaller guilds who run with 5-10 people. The smaller guilds usually run apart, taking small towers, camps, sentries and dolyaks, while fighting other server’s small forces too (I’m mostly speaking for my guild and a few others I know of).
Yesterday cause of the reset there were a bit too many zergs on the maps to go with 5-10, so I guess most small guilds joined in with the bigger ones (like we did).
There are also PUG’s, but those usually aren’t a lot and they have near to no impact.
I hope we can continue the match-up without too much blobbing.
(edited by Sirendor.1394)
Hey Wobbles, my guild would gladly welcome you. We’re on gandara and are called The Old Boys.
Kind regards, Vael
