Guild Wars 2

Quickness stomps/rez’g has been part of the game since beta.

Even during season 1, there was NEVER any specific complaints about quickness stomp/rez’g. The only complaints were about the desync’g that was happening. and not about the actual application of it.

Until ANet “out of the blue” made the change was there never any mention of it.

This change was a reaction to the embarrassing ESL finals. It has more to do with “viewership” then it does with “balance”.

If it was really related to game balance, why does chill still affect stomp/rez’g. Why does Search N’ Rescue still exist? Why are those mechanics (and others) allowed to effect stomp/rez’g but not quickness/slow?

That’s funny.

I’ve been struggling in Season 2 for quite some time. I’ve always played a lockdown playstyle and it just wasn’t getting it done this season.

So last week, I made some tweaks to my build and I’m again starting to move up the ladder. One of those changes that I made was adding “Arcane Thievery”. It really needs a lower cooldown, but I’m able to use it to strip away stability and thus open up the “lockdown” play style.

I’m still “tweaking” it, so I hadn’t made a post about it. But it fits nicely with your post.

Chrono-Rupt: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAR8en0nBlph1oBupBEgiFhj6MD2gQzsAKlAouTD1SF-TZBFABiXGAgHCwCXAgbPCABv/AA

That is true, that “perfect balance” will never happen. But thats exactly why, ANet should be constantly tweaking/balancing the game, instead of large balance changes 2-3 times a year.

By consistently changing the game, the “meta” becomes a dynamic entity that is constantly changing. This is that “illusion of balance” that ANet had discussed so very long ago.

Just because the masses don’t like a mechanic does not make it “balanced”

Quickness is a boon that is part of the game and always has been. The quickness/slow nerf was a knee jerk reaction to a incredibly unbalance HOT release and embarrassing ESL performance.

Isolating that one boon, when there is just as many other mechanics that unfairly affect rez/stomping is crappy game balancing.

I knew I could count on Lexander support.

And if you knew anything about game design, you would know better.

When ANet announced Chrono and Continuim Split, ANet specifically designed CS so that it would NOT affect the downstate.

On the January 26 update, the following changes were made to the game.

“Finish Them” Finishers: The stomping effect will no longer be time-scaled through effects like quickness and slow.
Reviving: Reviving characters will no longer be affected by time-scaled effects like quickness and slow.

I believe that these changes were done for 2 reasons.

1. Direct response to the famous chronobunker stacking that occurred in S1.
2. a visual bug would occurred between the char and the stomping animation, a
“desync”.

Let’s discuss #2 first.

Stomping takes about 3 seconds. I have several older youtube videos of using time warp to stomp 2 players within TW’s 10 second period and there never is any desyncing.

The desync’g bug occurs when the quickness duration is less than the 3 seconds stomp cast. Or when “slow” gets applied in the middle of the stomping cast.

For example, Chronomancer have a GM trait that grants them quickness when they shatter based on how many illusions. So it was very common for Chrono’s to “start the stomp” and then shatter getting 1-2 seconds of quickness. This would result in the “desync”. Also, Well of Action applies quickness and could be cast a teammate mid stomp/rez which would then “desync”.

On the other side, was Revenants down state abilities. Essence Sap applies 1 second slow. So the stomper would receive 1 sec slows in the middle of cast.

What is interesting is that Time Warp has enabled quickness stomping/rez’g since the beginning and there never was any issue of desync’g. Only when “slow” was added as a new condition as part of June 2016 patch and the addtion of HOT new traits and skills did the “desync’g” make an appearance.

Now, let’s discuss reason #1.

We all know season 1 was very embarrassing to say the least. In October, HOT was released bringing new Elite’s and a new profession. Lots of additional skills, traits and abilities were added. 6 weeks later, season 1 started and NO BALANCE PATCH. It was a recipe for disaster.

Yes, Chronobunker was very strong bunker. There were other stronger bunkers (and still are) in the game. The reason Chronobunker was chosen over all other bunkers was the quickness rez/stomp. The combination of a strong bunker AND quick rez/stomping is just too good a fit for conquest game mode.

Please remember, Chronobunker was not the ONLY class that was getting stacked. Revenant also shared the limelight. Chronobunker was strong, but it couldn’t kill anything. So Chronobunker was there to hold a point and keep the Revenant up.

Since then Chrono and Rev’s have seen the majority of nerfs. Chrono took some huge hits and Mesmer along with it. Chrono is not even close to the bunker it once was.

ESL has also implement rules to limit class stacking in its tournament.

Thus, the changes to quickness/slow affecting stomp/rez’g should be reverted.

Really it comes down to this. How can ANet single out a specific boon/condition when it comes down to the downstate? How is that justified?

Ranger can use a pet to speed his rez or finish a down player while he’s on the other side of the map. Not too mention, Search and Rescue, can teleport a down player (no LOS) and speed up rez.

Stealth allows players to go invisible to down/stomp a player. Other professions have easy access to “Stabilty” to rez/stomp a player. While others have mulitple CC, chill, fear, etc. Other profession have high damaging traps, wells, and AOE’s to finish a player or prevent a stomp.

Why single out a specific condition/boon/ability, but not all the others? Either balance around ALL abilities, or remove the downed state from sPvP.

Tempest’s need a help in targeting. So I’d suggest that Tempest’s AOE’s should be large enough to cover at least 2 points. Increase AOE radius by 10×. (Might need to be bigger depending on map.)

Reapers need more build diversity, so lets take the 6th option of Runes of the Nightmare and apply that as a default to all Reapers. No ICD. That will allow more Rune options and thus more diversity.

Have we seen patches every 3 months for the past year?

Agreed, June patch of 2015 enabled the 3 trait line system. It also beefed up conditions by modifying stack sizes, damage modifiers and Might/Weakness coverage.

Then 3 months later HOT hit, and there has been little to no balancing since.

Or maybe, just maybe, ANet could actually BALANCE the game more than 1-2 times a year, so class stacking wouldn’t be an issue.

Yesterday, my last match. Had 2 Mesmers (1 being me) and 3 thiefs against 4 necros and a DH.

One of our thieves changed to a Ranger and didn’t matter, we got slaughtered. I couldn’t get close to any of them its was CHILL > CHILLL > CHILL > CHILL and with the occasional FEAR just to mix it up.

LIke I said, it was my LAST match.

Infusion.7149:

Hlord.5940 , Gravity Well was unchanged , only alacrity changed

One of the first nerfs after HOT was a 20% damage reduction to Gravity Well.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/October_2015

If your going to point out “Mirror of Anguish”, you should also include on your list: “Reaper’s Protection” & “Eye for an Eye”.

You can also include “Rune of Nightmare”, “Rune of Grenth” and “Sigil of Ice”, since they all have similar functionality.

Agreed.

Unfortunately, it will never happen.

If want to play sPvP, you better bring your parka.

Spring is right around the corner, but in league it is CHILL and more CHILL this evening. With an extended outlook of CHILL for the coming weeks.

Gain all boons.

Protection (10s): -33% Incoming Damage
Regeneration (10s): 1300 health
Vigor (10s): +50% Endurance Regeneration
Might (10s): +30 Power, +30 Condition Damage
Fury (10s): 20% Critical Chance
Swiftness (10s): 33% Movement Speed
Aegis (10s): Block the next incoming attack.

Stability (3s): Cannot be knocked down, pushed back, pulled, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, feared or taunted.
Retaliation (5s): Reflect incoming damage back to its source.

Oh your right, no quickness, no resistance. It is a struggle.

Sure, 1 second cast time for 10 seconds of EVERY BOON in the game. Totally not worth it.

Funny how, you can call out multiple builds of a Mesmer, but yet stipulate a “DD Thief”.

And speaking of steal.. can you say “Consume Plasma”! 10 seconds of EVERY BOON (i.e. Protection, Aegis, Retaliation, Regeneration, Might, and so on and so on.) And having that every ~20 or so seconds.

Lexander.4579:

StickerHappy.8052:

Vasdamas Anklast.1607:

That bullkitten has been there in WvW for a long time. What bugs me about it is that you can play defensive and still win 1v1 fight (and be quite an annoyance in some TFs too). It’s very confusing (and not just because of NaN NanN stacks of confusion) and dodgy build.
But the matter of the fact is, why do I see so many condi mesmers running around on diamond/ruby while I only encountered one d/d thief yesterday.

Because Condi mes still has portal? and team utility like Moa.

And thief has what?

i call that selfowned

and in case u forgot mesmer has a braindead spam of invul/evade/block frame abilities which are easily better than thief’s dodge spam

You can’t be serious. Your claiming that Mesmer’s can out “invul/evade/block frame” a Thief/Daredevil?

I have this idea that would help Mesmer’s, but it will never happen.

Its something that IF it was implemented at release(early on) would probably not be an issue, but changing it now would cause too much out-rage.

So clones are supposed to confuse the enemy. Make it hard to choose the “tree from the forest”, “stealth in plain site” – kind of thing. But in reality, it really doesn’t take much to pick out the real Mesmer. In fact, once you have the Mesmer targeted, unless the Mesmer gets stealth, the real Mesmer will remain targeted no matter how many clones are generated.

My idea is this: Any weapon skill that generates a clone will also “drop target”.

This would be pretty simple to implement by adding a .5-1 second of stealth to those skills. The Mesmer would blink in and out of stealth when the clone is generated. (Dropping target, and making the enemy to re-target/re-select the real Mesmer. Really add that “find the tree from the forest” type of gameplay to the Mesmer.

For the professions with all the AOE, it probably wouldn’t change much for them. They just spam the ground and not really target the Mesmer. But for those other professions like Warrior, Thief, Rangers, Rev’s and OTHER Mesmer’s, this will make the Mesmer a bit more “slippery”. Of course, it will also make the Mesmer more of a pain in the kitten to fight. And players will complain and complain and complain.

I came up with this idea as a way to help fight thieves and rev’s. It’s really frustrating that as a player you can kite like crazy, only to have a thief or rev instantly shadowstep thru rocks and walls and stone at the press of a button. Because all they need is a target.

This probably “should of been” since the beginning, but now it will never happen. Just wanted to pitch “something out of the box”.

For some reason I remember a time when Mind Stab was a daze instead boon removal.

So why not add that back? Remove a boon and a daze.

My only suggestion:

Profession Balance needs to be an “ongoing effort”.

Big changes are still done between seasons, but during the leagues there should be “tweaks”. Cool downs, damage multipliers, healing coefficients, etc., can all be adjusted to “fine tune” the balance during the season leading into the tournaments.

Doesn’t matter how many,; having professions that are obviously stronger to others is never good for the game.

I’m slowly coming to same resolution.

I am pretty much fed up with ANet’s idea of game balancing. It’s obvious it will never change/improve. I’m just really starting to realize it.

“The Division” launches tonight, between that, Witcher 3 and Rocksmith 2014. I’ll stay busy.

I think you guys are being too hard on the OP.

I mean, he did get the part about Mesmer’s being broken right.

Silverstone.4539:

I know there are lots of topics about the problems with season 2 PvP mostly to do with the MMR but that is not the only problem. This is a collection of problems I have noticed over season 2 so far. It seems Anet have a policy of not replying to PvP topics right now, but I hope they at least read them. Fixing these problems I hope will go a long way to making PvP better again. They are not in any order, and i have also added some ideas for fixing some.

Please note this is all from a Solo Queue perspective.

*Profession balance – This is the root of most of the problems. i know it can’t be an easy fix. But it is far from a paper, rock, scissors scenario, there are dynamites that just blow the rest away. This is its own problem and a big one that would need its own topic, no simple fix here.

*Bunker builds - there are a number of them. Ele, ranger, Engineer, even some necros you could put into this category right now. When 2 or sometimes even 3 people can’t kill another class, one has to ask why? Balance (see above), yes but also – because this style of play is rewarded. Control points don’t move so the longer you have one the better your chance of winning are. A solution to this would be to have different types of game maps. Where different types of play can be rewarded. not, who can hold one spot the longest. Here is one idea. have 3 control points, but every 20 seconds they randomly change location on the map. To three of 12 different places. This would add moveably in to the mix. Along with more lock down builds CC. Also giving teams that were not lucky enough to get 3 bunkers on their team, to stand a chance.

*Match making – a big one this season, I know they are trying something new, but it’s safe to say it didn’t really work. It seem to be very cloak and dagger system that no one really understands. I understand why, people would milk it if they knew every in and out. But I think a Solo only Queue would go a long way to making a lot of casual PvPers feel better. I’m not sure how this one is an easy fix. my MMR as I imagine lots of other peoples has be destroyed by this season 2 match making system. Even resetting MMR for everyone at this point would not fix it as we would just be starting all over again putting the good with the not so good. Only way I can think of is going back to season 1 match making but also reverting everyone’s MMR back to what it was at the end of season 1. I don’t know if that is possible or if they have backups like that, but… going forward with the statics quo is only going to push more people away from PvP.

*Team make up - I see 3 rangers 1 gardain 1 mes on 1 team. 3 necros, 2 eng on the other. they all Solo Q ( i see at the end of the match) why on earth are the necros and rangers not spread over both teams? If, as I have heard its because the 2 teams MMR is very different, then they should not be fighting each other anyway. I guess this goes back to Match making as the root of the problem.

*Pips - the +2 for braking a losing streak. though it’s a nice idea on paper. in practice there is a lot, i mean A LOT of collateral damage. People start AFKing or losing on purpose so they can lose 3 in the hope of getting a win on the 4th to get 2 pips back up again. this has compounding effect for other team members getting them stuck in a no win situation where they are stuck in the same tire for days if not weeks on end. In my mind, this should be removed. Give people an incentive to win, not to try and lose to win bigger later on.

Anyone else got more, and I’m sure there are please just add them.

I think the Team Makeup has more to do with the “Profession Balance” then the Match Making system. The match making system is doing exactly what is supposed to do. I’ll explain.

As you pointed out. Why does it seem like there’s always 3 ele’s, 2 scrappers up against 1 Mesmer, 1 Ranger, 1 Thief, 2 Necros?

A player with a strong “OP” profession are mostly likely winning over others and thus their MMR will rise.

What does the Match Making do.. it teams players with the same MMR.

AND WHO ARE THOSE OTHER PLAYERS???

They are other players that are also playing the other STRONG professions!!

That’s why you see all those 3 ele – 2 scrapper teams facing off against 1Mes – 1 Thief – 2 Warrior – 1 Guardian.

The Match Making is doing exactly whats its supposed to do. Group players with equal MMR’s and face them against other players in the same pip range.

So if your not playing the strong “META” classes, you will have those losing streaks. The system is pairing you with equal MMR teammates.

So if you play Mesmer(like me) will most likely be teamed up with other Mesmers, Thieves, Warriors, and the occasional “average” Engies and Elementalists.

If you play Elementalist, you’ll be paired up with other Ele’s, Scrappers, Reapers, Rev’s and the occasional “exceptional” Thief or Mesmer or Ranger..

If the game was better balanced, then you would NOT be seeing these lopsided match ups. The MatchMaking system would be just fine. Because the MMR would be better distributed across the professions.

The Match Making system is working perfectly. We’re just seeing the results of bad balancing.

um….because invulnerable rez’g is a thing.

What is so disheartening for me is simply the lack of balancing?

There is NO REASON why ANET shouldn’t be taken this data and doing some tweaking of numbers. I’m not talking about trait changes or huge skill changes..

I’m talking about adjusting cooldowns, energy costs, initiative, damage modifiers, cast times, healing coefficients? Just “TUNING” the game.

They could be doing that RIGHT NOW! And make these adjustments and REALLY improve the balance without “shaking up the meta”.

But they don’t.

As someone who ONLY plays Mesmer. My advice (right now in this meta) is to “stay with the necro”.

Fnix.5608:

I love how GW2 is taking the path that killed WildStar PvP: more and more AoE and AI, less and less skilled gameplay.

It’s just way too much spam happening at the same time to be eSports. GW2 is just eSpam in it’s current state. Vanilla gw2 was better.

+1

Just take into consideration the current professions at the bottom. Warrior, Thief & Mesmer (to an extent). These professions have little to no AOE capabilities. They also have little to no “condition removal”. Its not too hard to see the correlations on why they are not viable.

Littlefeather.8623:

SlimChance.6593:

Use chat!!

Don’t spam chat, but use it to let your team know whats happening. i.e. If you find yourself outnumber and you go down. Let the team know, where and how many are there.

“I’m down, 3 at home”

“4 at mid”

This and the mini map, should let your team make good choices on where to rotate or where NOT to rotate.

Taking 15 seconds to type something isn’t going to work with almost every interaction the other players do. If I need to tell the person to stomp in chat that takes about 5-6 seconds, and more for them to register and actually do it, it’s faster just doing it myself, If I explain to a person why are they off the point stomping when they clearly have a range weapon it takes longer for me to get them to realize what’s going on then actually doing it myself. If I have to tell some one to res me when I’m trying to res or rally, I can’t type res me when I’m about to get stomped. etc, etc, I could go on and on…

I admit there are situations where you can type something while auto running to a point where I have a few seconds to type something but one cannot simply expect to be handheld in every single situation in pvp…

So you think its more important to tell a teammate on who to stomp or who to rez, instead of telling your team the location and numbers of the enemy.

Use chat!!

Don’t spam chat, but use it to let your team know whats happening. i.e. If you find yourself outnumber and you go down. Let the team know, where and how many are there.

“I’m down, 3 at home”

“4 at mid”

This and the mini map, should let your team make good choices on where to rotate or where NOT to rotate.

To add to Messiah’s list. Use it as a blink. When on a ledge above your enemy (Nifhil map – center point), use it for a quick attack/return.

Sit at range and generate clones > F5-drop onto enemy > attack/close shatter, > CS teleports you back up top.

Its funny. Had a game against 3 necros and ended up losing. Not too bad, but it kind of hurt.

3 games later. Was on a team with 3 necros. Lost 500-0. Hurt worse.

Thanks for keeping an open mind.

However, I’d like to make one more point if I may.

Cynz.9437:

So let just leave it how it is? Great argument.

Stealth also has HUGE disadvantage – you lose point. Stealth is also not invul.

This is a misnomer. If a player decides to stand in a red circle, he will take damage whether he is visible or invisible. Thus, taking damage when invisible is NOT a “downside” or disadvantage.

Does stealth prevent you from dodging?
Does stealth prevent you from blocking?
Does stealth prevent evades?
Does stealth immobilize or otherwise restrict motion, shadowsteps, blink, teleports?

An invisible player has exact same options to avoid damage as a visible player. There is NO downside.

The invisible player has the advantage(over a visible player) by “breaking target”. Making it even more difficult to be struck. (Not to mention being “invisible”)

The ONLY “downside”, as you mentioned, is the inability to “cap a point” and this only applies to conquest. With Stronghold being added to ranked, this disadvantage is diminished even more.

In your opinion it is “absurd”. My opinion is that “stealth” in is a HUGE advantage in combat. There is NO downside to “steatlh”. Because of that “reveal” is necessary and if anything it should be more readily available to more professions.

Thief is not the only profession that is currently forced into certain traits/weapons simply to survive. I’m sorry but that’s not enough justification.

You made a thread about changing “reveal”.

Another player asks a question on why you think a its justified or one that counters your suggestion, and you compare reveal to having the eng’s class mechanic locked out.

I merely pointed out that stealth is NOT a class mechanic and you cannot dismiss counters to your statement by comparing it to other class mechanics.

Cynz.9437:

Faux Play.6104:

Why should a class be able to spam invisibility and no class be able to counter it?

If we go by that logic, why can’t thief lock engi from half of their mechanics for 6 sec on 20 sec CD? Also, there is counter to stealth – namely aoe and there is crap load of it in HoT.

Here you tried to justify your opinion by comparing it to engineer’s mechanic.

Its not that we have bunkers… but we have some professions that have REALLY good sustain AND REALLY good damage at the same time.

And others that don’t have either.

Last time I checked, stealth is NOT a thief mechanic.

The “Revealed effect” gets applied to any profession when “stealth is broken”.

Alacrity did get a heavy hit, but Chronomancer also brings “traited speed” and “Continuim Shift”. Those are kind of hard to pass up.

Or better yet, how about we bring more to the game than just Portal.

It wouldn’t be a buff, it would be a nerf.
Phantasm barely survive long enough as is. If for some reason they do survive long enough to get 2 or more out, now you just neutered your shatter damage/confusion. Because you have less spots for clones.

(Or do you plan on allowing Mesmer to generate Max 3 clones AND as many phantasm he can spawn?) – which will never happen.

You’d have to reduce the cool downs on all the clone generating skills to make up for the damage loss. And improve others so that you could more reliable generate clones. (i.e. Scepter block) . And if you do that, then ANet would probably nerf those skills accordingly. GS-Mirror Blade Might application reduced or ICD added, for example.

The Mesmer in GW1 was the King of Hexes. There were all kinds of different hexes. There were hexes for doing this, there were hexes for doing that. Heck, there were hexes for doing NOTHING.

For GW2, ANet mentioned specifically that they wanted the players to look at the action and not the UI. Hexes became Phantasm’s. “Living hexes” if you will. That is/was their initial design. When you think about it, its actually a very clever way of presenting/doing “hexes” in the game.

Like a hex:
- they require a target to be cast
- they only damage/attack said target
- they die when the target dies.

In most other game, when it comes to “hexes”, the player either:
- must suffer thru the hex(time limited)
- heal/buff to counter the damage
- use some type of hex removal

Since there is no “phantasm removal” skill, phantasm can be hit, burned, bleed, knock back, stunned, like everything else in the game. In this regard, they are NOT “living hexes”, but are summoned “pets”.

So they are designed with all the limitations of hexes (single target, easily removed/damaged, etc.) AND even the limitations of pets. (un-controllable, very weak, can be CC’d, suffer from conditions..etc.)

I’d like for them to be more like the hexes, than pets. What if phantasms were immune to CC and conditions?

What if the only way to deal with phantasm was to:
- suffer thru the hex(time limited- yes make phantasm time based)
- heal/buff to counter the damage (use LOS/dodge/block, etc.)
- use some type of hex removal (actually ATTACK the phantasm)

Currently, there is so much AOE burning/bleeding/chill/cleave in this game, that players don’t even worry about phantasms anymore. They just die in all the crap that’s happening. Phantasms are SUPPOSED to be a threat, the enemy is supposed to decide to attack the phantasm or the Mesmer.

Forcing the enemy to decide between different courses of action is/was the bread & butter of the Mesmer. (At least, in GW1 it was.) It would be nice to get back to that.

Now, there some that will scream that our shatters are counter-intuitive to phantasms. And I disagree. Our shatters are another way of forcing the enemy into making choices, and making them suffer for whichever choice he makes.

If he ignores the phantasm, then he suffers from the phantasm.

If he goes, for the phantasm, then that feeds into our shatters and he suffers anyway. (Shatters are another form of “hex”.)

This is what a Mesmer does! Force the enemy to make a choice. And make him pay for which ever choice he makes. This is the blood and soul of a “Mesmer”!

Not that this will every happen, NOR am I to first come up with similar thinking. Several players over the years have come up with interesting ways to improve our phantasm. This isn’t an original thought.

Sorry, for the rant.

Well, don’t know if I’m the most experienced Mesmer around, but I’ll share my thoughts.

My only comment is on Power Block & Mistrust together. To me they seem to kind of have conflicting concepts. Power Block is for stopping skill casting, while Mistrust is used to punish for using skills.

Your running scepter and staff. You have Illusionary Reversion and Chronophantasm, so illusion generation should be non stop. You also have Time Catches Up AND Signet of Dom/MoD-Confounding Suggestions.. so to me that feeds into Mental Anguish. 30% additional damage to inactive foes…. Illusion, Illusion, Illusion, Stun>Shatter…. Illusion, Illusion, Illusion, Stun > Shatter. Mistrust, scepter, stacking confusion in between.

Anyway, that’s about the only thing I’d tweak.

It is more GM worthy than DD, just because Mistrust gets triggered on “interrupt”. We have tons of way to “interrupt”, across multiple weapons and utility skills.

DD affects 2 skills on 1 weaponset.

No it does matter.

DD is not strong enough compared to HM and DE. Heck, HM isn’t strong enough compared to DE.

Sorry, but no.

DD is NOT GM worthy. It only affects an offhand weapon.. a whole 2 skills. Maybe, if we had pistol mainhand, so it would affect both MH and offhand, I could see it. (i.e. Imagine Burden)

GM traits are supposed to be “Build defining”. Unless you add something more to it, its not good enough.

Another example.. Time Warp.

Quickness and Slow no longer affect rez/stomps, a HUGE nerf to Time Warp in PvP.

But is there ANY adjustment?? Lower the CD/increase duration to compensate??

Need to think more positively: "I feel a little better for pre-ordering “The Division”."

See how its done.