Guild Wars 2

1) The first name might offend people if they think you’re playing on the word “that ends up being auto censored”. Some shorten that word to “another auto censored word”, and use it in a harmful way. That’s my assumption regarding that. (edit – the word is related to a mental disability)

2) If you use a name from a book, chances are it’s been copyrighted. The ToS does not permit names that: “Reference names of copyrighted or trademarked characters, materials, or products.”

It’s only profit if they actually sell.

Obtena.7952:

1. Manipulate item to a net loss position for flipping
2. ???
3. PROFIT!!!

See, easy. Ultimate proof ectos are manipulated.

LOL! That’s probably all the OP needs to justify his position.

Side note, did you know that Vicious Claws drop rates are being nerfed tomorrow? It’s rumored that they’ll only drop from killing the Shadow Behemoth. /giggles

John Smith.4610:

Let’s calm down a bit, this isn’t getting us far. Instead let me ask this.
Here are the assumptions that I’m operating under for this question:
1. You feel that PvE and TP have difference levels of gold earning
2. You feel that PvE and TP should have the same level of gold earning

What would be your plan for implementing a reward system that would achieve what you desire, given the constraint that you may not get rid of the trading post?

There have been a lot of good conversations in this thread thus far. While I’m not up to par with guys like Ursan and RisingDusk, allow me to chime in.

The question you ask cannot be answered. Reason being, the person who complains that earning money through PvE and the market need to be equal doesn’t understand that it’s two different things. Earning gold by killing monsters is determined by parameters set by loot tables. Earning gold by buying and selling goods on the TP is determined by the players themselves, based off of Supply and Demand.

Every action by Anet has a subsequent reaction by the player base. People will speculate on blog posts or Dev interviews, and can drive prices crazy temporarily. Then once changes are made, these fluctuations will stop and settle into more of a stable price. Nerf drop rates for an item, that item’s price will skyrocket on the TP. Sames goes for increasing rates. So should any reward system be put in place that makes it easier to get something (i.e. Precursors), it will negatively affect how that same item trades on the TP (ie. price crash). In both cases, the prices will find an equilibrium, and settle until the market moves again.

I don’t pay attention to all the speculation talks regarding Final Rest. So when I got it yesterday, I just filled someone’s Buy Order for 15 gold. I’m happy, they’re happy, and I go back to farming the SB for more.

Charismatic Harm.9683:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

That was me. And it was 2k Gold to prove that I couldn’t manipulate anything. But a I was infracted for that thread because we’re not supposed to address Devs directly, so I gave up on that idea.

I couldn’t remember who it was…..but I was VERY interested in the outcome of that idea. It’s too bad you were infracted for it. Several of us thought it was a great idea and actually supported it. I hope you didn’t feel I was “calling you out” for not accepting the challenge…..it was just sad to see that thread die. :-)

Nah, I just wanted to give the community proof that no one can manipulate the market. I just asked for 2k gold as a way to do my research. But then John asked me to submit lots of paperwork, to which I had no time to do. I was serious about it for a while, up until I got dinged for the thread. BUT… John releasing data every now and then is good enough proof to shut down conspiracy theorists.

Rezz.8019:

Powerful blood price has been rising a lot over the last few days. However, at some hours of the day the buy price is A LOT lower than sell price. Right now you can buy it for ~31 silver and sell for ~38 silver.
I suggest that everyone goes and does it as it’s easy profit. It’s not fair that only few market abusers notice those things. Everyone should know about it.

You’re welcome.

Note – There’s a difference between posting a Buy Order, and actually selling for “retail” prices. As others have mentioned, the market fluctuates. Posting a Buy Order for 31 silver, and someone posts for 31 silver 1 copper, you don’t get your items. And even if you do get them, and post Sell Orders for 38 silver, someone can undercut you for 37 silver 99 copper. So your claims to easy profit is not so clear cut.

And no need to thank me.

Amun Ra.6435:

Desire? Luxuries? Dude…this is a game…it’s not real.

If that’s the case, why are you so adamant in starting arguments that you can’t win? John and the rest of the players has already shut down your conspiracy theories in the other thread.

I understand why you’re so passionate about this game, but when debating with us, try not to constantly contradict yourself with posts full of speculation and baseless rumor.

Charismatic Harm.9683:

John has said many times that it would be nearly impossible for a single person, or small group of people, to completely control any given market…..much less the entire Trading Post. At one point, a fellow player asked John for 200g (or something like that) to PROVE he could manipulate the Trading Post. John responded with a challenge to write a 10 page proposal on this players exact methodology as to how he was going to invest the 200g. That player never accepted the challenge. I’m guessing that John knows more than we do about the Trading Post, the GW2 game economy and what is and isn’t possible from a player standpoint.

That was me. And it was 2k Gold to prove that I couldn’t manipulate anything. But a I was infracted for that thread because we’re not supposed to address Devs directly, so I gave up on that idea.

I agree that a perma ban should have been made. But it seems because the player self reported the violation, Anet probably felt it was an honest mistake, and gave the benefit of the doubt. But as for appealing a decision against another player, I think there might be something in the rules that don’t allow that.

Draygo.9473:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Demand increased tenfold, and as the Stockpiles of ecto went down, prices increased.

/facepalm – Fixed that for you.
Stockpiles went down, supply is unaffected at this point. Stockpiles do not equal supply.

Fixed. Sorry, I was typing fast. I meant the supply of ectos in relation to what was on the TP. Stockpiles is a better term. Thanks for catching it.

Ori and Ori nodes. That’s the easiest way to say it in voice chat.

Lafiel.9372:

Our forum player base is sadly made up of a lot of people who wear tin foil hats and think RnG has no statistical backing.

There are some who think “RNG” is a tag for a guild full of evil economists.

Today is a perfect example of why we /facepalm each time someone says the word “manipulator”. So many times people cry foul over prices, and they’re quick to blame a secret conspiracy of manipulators who move the market.

So what happened? Today, this was posted: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Upcoming-mega-boss-chest-change

Within hours of this announcement, players panicked. Most of them misread or misunderstood what this update meant. They all assumed Anet was nerfing drop rates, and thus came to the conclusion that ecto prices would skyrocket. People left work early to rush home so they could log in and get into the TP and buy ectos while they were cheap, while others rushed to bump up their prices knowing how to take advantage of these people. As such, prices shot through the roof, without a single thing done by Anet.

Was there a nerf? Nope. Was it a group of people manipulating the prices? Nope. It was pure speculation by the player base that ectos might increase in prices, so everyone rushed in to buy as much as they could. And it ended up becoming a self fulfilling prophecy. Demand increased tenfold, and as the Stockpiles of ecto went down, prices increased.

Normally, prices would climb slowly, as Sell Orders were gobbled up. But prices jumped quickly. Reason being, there are people who knew how the player base would react to that announcement, and took advantage by posting higher and higher Sell Orders. Here’s where conspiracy theorists would come in and yell “manipulators”. No, that’s not the case. Manipulation would apply here if a group of players were to somehow artificially inflate Demand or corner the Supply of ectos. The Demand for ectos was already artificially increased (again due to a misunderstanding), so players took advantage. These people are called Speculators.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Well manipulators aren’t controlling the ecto market, but the devs certainly are.

Ectos fall 10s-> devs panic -> nerf drop rates to hell -> ectos rise 10s in 20 minutes.

I suspect they will fall again, but the devs sure know how to stimulate the market in the direction they desire.

Note – The devs haven’t even made the changes yet. So don’t blame them, blame the players panicking.

It’s safe to say that your guild’s website was used to steal everything. Since you provided all your personal information to that 3rd party website, there’s no way for anyone at Anet to know which information was compromised. Try thinking back to what you typed into the website forms.

This thread has so much win, my eyes are teary.

Ursan.7846:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Hey Ursan. I think the conspiracy this time was that ecto prices were dropping too fast, so the only reasonable explanation was that it was being manipulated. Because heaven forbid 150k ectos moving through the TP is real or anything.

I just want someone to explain to me how this “manipulation” is profitable. Like, people don’t do things on such a huge scale if it’s not profitable. I don’t understand. At all. What? Very exasperated.

There is no profit. He’s just arguing “manipulation” for manipulation’s sake. Sorta like saying there’s a conspiracy, because it’s there. I had already warned him that John smashes conspiracies. Lo and behold…

Ursan.7846:

But like, what is the motivation? How is this profitable? Are people buying/selling ectos at very similar buy/sell orders? They must be just destroying money then.

Just assuming if it is possible (It’s highly highly unlikely) I don’t see the motivation. Where’s the profit? Why would anyone do this?

I’m so confused. Can someone explain to me?

Hey Ursan. I think the conspiracy this time was that ecto prices were dropping too fast, so the only reasonable explanation was that it was being manipulated. Because heaven forbid 150k ectos moving through the TP is real or anything.

Geotherma.2395:

John Smith.4610:

24 hours, >150,000 ectos, > 9500 unique sellers.

How do you sleep at night with all that “win” you are full of :P

John has tiger blood.

John Smith.4610:

24 hours, >150,000 ectos, > 9500 unique sellers.

Game. Set. Match.

We love you John!!!

Toast.6459:

All depends on the player then I guess, either way, my main point that the very method of obtaining legendary weapons goes against their description and the philosophy of a “grindless game” still stands.

Dunno what drops you get from WvW, but I’m glad somebody gets something good. Spikes don’t fall into my classification of epic loot.

LOL! Not just spikes. Heavy Loot Bags are nice. But anyways, the grind exists. Anet didn’t eliminate that completely. They eliminated the grind being mandatory. You can do other things if you want, as there are many challenges in the open world.

If you make the choice to go for a Legendary, they aren’t forcing you to grind it. I think that’s the key difference they were trying to push regarding other “grind” games and GW2.

Vol.5241:

People are willing to generate conspiracy theories on anything.

But globs? One of the unofficial currencies of the game, that has a lot of value and gets traded thousands of times in an hour?!!

I have to admit, I find it refreshing to see someone spout off nonsense on something other than Precursors.

Toast.6459:

Aberrant.6749:

He/she is just saying that it shows nothing of skill/mastery of the game. It does show that you can do near mindless things for hours and hours on end though…

Bingo. I just felt like putting this out there for explanation purposes, I’ll be interested in a legendary when the process is enjoyable and more than a long painful mindless grind. I’m sure people are going to post the same “stop whining”, but that group of people is just too narrow minded to see my point.

@Smooth; I agree to an extent, but it’s kind of like your signature. “I farmed an event. I farmed another event. Hey, I farmed a different event. That’s great.”

It’s all about “how” you farmed an event. Since the World Chests have been upgraded, I’ve been doing them all, and it’s kitten fun. Shatterer, Jormag, Shadow Behemoth, Tequatl, etc. I’ll grind these events daily just because it’s fun. The better chest drops are more like a bonus.

Every player’s definition of “fun” is different. You just gotta find it and do it. Jumping Puzzles are good for the challenge. WvW is good for the zerg fest and epic loot drops. Cursed Shore is good for repeatable Karma events. Even playing the TP for cheap goods is like PvP at times, with you competing against other buyers/sellers for the best prices.

And yes, while I did grind for my Legendary, I had a lot of fun doing it.

Amun Ra.6435:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Geotherma.2395:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Geotherma.2395:

I just wanna say that I flooded the market with like… a TON of ectos when I did that salvage test lol.. Because there was another 200 salvages after the 800 I already did. Sorry about that..

So YOU’RE the manipulator! /gasp

Just joking. But I did appreciate your ectos that you pumped into the economy. I need to upgrade my backpiece for higher level FotM runs. 250 ecto a pop isn’t cheap at 40 Silver each.

40s o.o?

edit:ectos officially same price as rares now lols…

I meant it was creeping up to 40 Silver each before the recent influx of Rares. I’m quite happy with the current prices, to which I thank you for helping manipulate down.

Amun Ra.6435:

Forget it…I was actually trying to have a serious conversation here, but oh well.

But in a market with zero regulation no one can prove me wrong or right.

BTW, you’ve already been proven wrong from previous threads and posts by John Smith.

Did he provide reports with names, accounts numbers, trades, possible links between accounts and various other data one would need to prove these “conspiracy theories” wrong?

Can you post a link? I would love to see this thread?

Not saying sarcastically, would love to see this thread.

Sorry mate, you’re the one who has to provide the documentation to your claims, so you’ll have to go dig through all the threads of the past. But to keep it simple, there have been many people making conspiracy claims, and each time they’ve been shut down with facts or statements from Anet.

John Smith has had many good conversations with us, and provided tidbits of information here and there. He has the logs and numbers, and I’ll believe him when he says there’s no mass manipulation conspiracy.

Perhaps a mid way point between the suggestion that Behellagh made (16% fee off the backend) and mine (25% fee off the backend). Without any additional fees/tax/penalties, it wouldn’t be fair to the players who do have the money to pay the up front fees.

In fact, you could then consider paying the 5% up front like a discount, should the back end fees go up.

Geotherma.2395:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Geotherma.2395:

I just wanna say that I flooded the market with like… a TON of ectos when I did that salvage test lol.. Because there was another 200 salvages after the 800 I already did. Sorry about that..

So YOU’RE the manipulator! /gasp

Just joking. But I did appreciate your ectos that you pumped into the economy. I need to upgrade my backpiece for higher level FotM runs. 250 ecto a pop isn’t cheap at 40 Silver each.

40s o.o?

edit:ectos officially same price as rares now lols…

I meant it was creeping up to 40 Silver each before the recent influx of Rares. I’m quite happy with the current prices, to which I thank you for helping manipulate down.

Amun Ra.6435:

Forget it…I was actually trying to have a serious conversation here, but oh well.

But in a market with zero regulation no one can prove me wrong or right.

BTW, you’ve already been proven wrong from previous threads and posts by John Smith.

Geotherma.2395:

I just wanna say that I flooded the market with like… a TON of ectos when I did that salvage test lol.. Because there was another 200 salvages after the 800 I already did. Sorry about that..

So YOU’RE the manipulator! /gasp

Just joking. But I did appreciate your ectos that you pumped into the economy. I need to upgrade my backpiece for higher level FotM runs. 250 ecto a pop isn’t cheap at 40 Silver each.

I see your point. Yes the 15% is removed from the game regardless.

One could argue that selling your goods at the lower “Buy Order” is still profit. You make the choice to sell it now, rather than later for a chance at more. So it’s not much of a forced opportunity/penalty cost, but more of impatience.

Overall, I see the Trading Post as a tool, and you need to pay up front in order to use/access that tool. Just as I paid up front to buy Guild Wars 2 before I could play it.

Amun Ra.6435:

Mourningcry.9428:

OP, Would you please provide some substantiated evidence to support such a massive claim?

At this point you’re offering little more then an observation and speculation.

You have any idea how much work it would take to prove this? Not to mention I would need access to Anets files on players…All I got is observation and speculation, unfortunately that’s all we have since there is ZERO regulation of the BLTC.

FYI – Speculation does not equal manipulation.

Anyways, resident econ expert John Smith has already stomped on these conspiracy theories. Beating this to death only serves as food for trolls.

Ah, I see. Well, I do enjoy my Legendary. I guess it’s all in the eye of the beholder.

If you do things you enjoy (such as WvW in my case), it makes farming for money much better.

NecroticNecrosis.4037:

Both suck. I spent real life cash for the gems i already bought just for dye. And i shouldnt have to anyway. they offered free transfers when the game first came out. I want it as a technical fix buddy.

I understand, but the free transfer period is over. So the only options you have are to delete all toons and start fresh, or pay X Gems to transfer with your characters intact. Anet doesn’t undo player mistakes unfortunately.

Anet won’t move you for free mate. You either have to pay the Gems, or delete all your characters and start fresh after you transfer over. Weigh the costs of both options, and choose which path to take.

I, personally, would delete everything and transfer for free. Being lv 30 isn’t as bad as having multiple lv 80 characters.

Behellagh.1468:

So you did a quite a bit better than the 0.9 if it has the same average as the Master Kit.

I don’t know how to get all those other numbers that the above posters calculated. I threw away my text book as soon as the semester as over. In my small sample size, what would my number be, as compared to the 0.9?

Um, I didn’t know ectos dropped to 20 copper. I’d be buying until I broke my mouse buttons at that price. But how is selling something cheap considered manipulation?

I don’t get it. Sounds like you just described playing the game. Are you trying to say that it’s too easy to get a Legendary?

Another conspiracy post. /sigh

There are millions of players in this game. Thousands upon thousands using the TP at the same time. With increased Rare drops from World Chests, the prices of ectos have dropped faster than I predicted. However, it’s still Supply vs. Demand. Lots of people now have ectos to sell, and if they don’t want to fill Buy Orders, they’ll compete with other sellers on the listing.

Behellagh.1468:

Charismatic Harm.9683:

Behellagh.1468:

Vol.5241:

Charismatic, I totally understand your reasoning behind removing the 5% fee, but just thinking from Arenanet’s perspective, it makes things worse removing it

That’s 5% more gold in the economy that can influence inflation. Players right now are already content with this.

He’s not talking about removing it, just moving it to the back end only when you already have a buyer. You still will loose 15%, you just won’t need 1/3rd of it up front.

That’s exactly what I’m talking about. I guess I just haven’t been able to explain it well enough. I’ve tried a couple of times, but can’t think of a better way for people to understand my thought. I know some people get it right away and others get it a little later, while others never will. That’s ok….and maybe that means it shouldn’t be done as it would add a layer of confusion to the process.

There are a number of others that simply think the 5% fee is stupid so it’s understandable that others lumped you in with them without grasping your intent.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

My argument from a different thread is that the 5% up front fee is a normal, acceptable amount. If you can’t afford it, you then get the incentive to play and earn it, or not sell.

To add to that, Behellagh suggests a higher percentage (16%) charged to players who can’t afford the up front fees. My opinion is that if a system is in place to allow players to bypass the up front fees, the percentage taken should be 25% off the back end. That way, if you really want to sell something you can’t afford to sell in the first place, you make the choice to get less. Sorta like real life Payday Loans, where people pay insane interest rates for a short term cash advance. You can call it a “penalty” or an “opportunity cost”.

And my point the additional 1% represents a 20% increase in the posting fee for the seconds it takes before they are able to “pay” the posting fee with the profits of the sale. That’s would be a rather significant APR if one bothers to crunch out the numbers. Tripling it from 5% to 15% is grossly excessive “punishment” if someone simply got lucky and had Dusk dropped on them, they didn’t want it but didn’t have the 30g to post it on the TP. Remember this option is only available if they don’t have the money to post the item to an immediate buyer. Not sure if how a day trader could exploit this.

I hear your point about the 1% being “20%” increase. But in the big picture, that means nothing in terms of the fees involved. For instance (and forgive me if I’m understanding it wrong), I have a Rare lv 80 Sparkling Helm of Awesome to sell for 1 Gold. The fee is 5 Silver to post on the TP, but if I couldn’t afford it, the 20% increase is only 1 more Silver. That’s pocket change, and not high enough to make it fair for players who can afford the fees.

My view is that if you can’t afford the 5 Silver fee up front, you could have the choice of selling the item for 1 Gold, but then get hit with a 25 Silver fee off the back end. The player would then have to weigh the costs of selling it now for a quick buck, or waiting until they can afford it. Don’t look at it as a “punishment” for the player, but more of an incentive to play more so they can afford it.

My argument from a different thread is that the 5% up front fee is a normal, acceptable amount. If you can’t afford it, you then get the incentive to play and earn it, or not sell.

To add to that, Behellagh suggests a higher percentage (16%) charged to players who can’t afford the up front fees. My opinion is that if a system is in place to allow players to bypass the up front fees, the percentage taken should be 25% off the back end. That way, if you really want to sell something you can’t afford to sell in the first place, you make the choice to get less. Sorta like real life Payday Loans, where people pay insane interest rates for a short term cash advance. You can call it a “penalty” or an “opportunity cost”.

Pandemoniac.4739:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Pandemoniac.4739:

And it’s not because that’s how it’s done in the real world, because I just gave you an example of eBay taking its escrow fee from the transaction proceeds.

Read my post again. Focus in on the example of buying stocks. You’ll have your answer.

That’s not an answer, that’s an example of someone else charging the fee up front. I gave an example of someone taking the fee from the proceeds. It’s done both ways. Why would someone choose to do one over the other in a system where the fee is just there to delete the money, and not to collect the money to use for something else?

How is it not an answer? You’re paying up front to use the service, and a percentage of the sale as a fee/tax. It’s only free to window shop.

ParaldaWind.4523:

Xephyron.4702:

ParaldaWind.4523:

So, I kind of want to go back to T3… To any Maguuma players reading this, pretend I’m online and take some keeps.

People reading the forum are probably the people who can’t get on atm.

Nah, I have a sleeper cell of followers who wait for me to tell them what to do on the forums. True story.

Just like how we all follow you like lemmings when you jump off the cliff? Or how you lead us in a circle around SBI’s outer Keep to “fake them out”? :P

At least it’s not like when Duke used to lead us into a suicide mission. Those were some good times.

Pandemoniac.4739:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

This isn’t just a matter of “you pay because that’s how it works” or “because people are familiar with Ebay”. You are using a tool that’s acting as a 3rd party to connect you with another player. If you have something to sell, the TP finds you a buyer. If there’s something you want to buy, the TP finds you the goods and seller. And if you want to use this tool to complete the transaction, there’s a fee.

Argh. I have no problem paying the fee. I think the fee is a good thing, and the same fee should be charged regardless of whether I’m filling a buy order or posting a sale order. When I’m filling a buy order, why do I have to have the fee in cash instead of taking it out of the proceeds of the transaction? Why does it matter if the gold is deleted from the transaction or from my inventory?

And it’s not because that’s how it’s done in the real world, because I just gave you an example of eBay taking its escrow fee from the transaction proceeds.

Read my post again. Focus in on the example of buying stocks. You’ll have your answer.

Ruprect.7260:

naphack.9346:

The current matchmaking system is flawed. The reasons are widely known, so I won’t put much effort into explaining why.
First off, the system will cause “tier islands” to form. 3 servers will be dragged into an endless slugfest unless a server comes in from the outside. With the server transfers now being shut off, the tiers will only solidify more and more. Especially tier 8 servers are being stuck in this because for them, the only change they can hope for is for some server to drop down from the higher rankings.

snip.

This would only help T8. Alot of the other tiers are having good matches at the moment. This would mean 2 weeks out of the month the fist and third place server would roflstomp/get destroyed. How would that be fun.

EditL:

Honestly at this point I wish this would happen for a week so HoD could move down roflstomp the kitten out of T8 and we can move on past these threads. There will be no more wondering.

I don’t think any T8 server could compete with a higher tier. If one were to move up, they’d be stomped back down the following week. It would be an endless cycle.

I hate statistics. Only took it because my degree required it. But I’d like to throw out some simple numbers from my recent salvage attempts.

~30 rares (lv 77+) using Mystic Salvage Kit = ~41 ectos
In those 30 or so attempts, I only failed to get an ecto four times. The failures were negated by some awesome 2 or 3 ecto drops.

Pandemoniac.4739:

Behellagh.1468:

No, if you have something to sell, setting up an auction costs you money up front, (snip)

And why not make a system recognizable? Just because it’s a virtual world doesn’t mean something as simple as a player trading system should be new and unfamiliar to all.

The TP is not an auction house. It’s a commodities exchange. Placing a buy order is not the same thing as bidding on an auction, and neither filling a buy order nor placing a sell order is the same thing as placing an auction.

While it does make sense to keep things familiar, I don’t think that needing a percentage of a the sale price in cash to sell an item to a buyer for a price you both agree on is something that was put in just because people are used to doing it. When someone sells items, they don’t have to give the sales tax the local government before the sale. The eBay escrow service in its instructions for sellers says

Escrow.com

If you agreed to pay all or some of the escrow fee, it’s automatically deducted from the purchase price.

If my question was “Why did ANet make the sky blue in GW2 when they could have picked any color?”, I would accept the answer "because that’s what people are familiar with and ANet wants people to feel like they’re on their home planet and not on some alien world. I don’t accept that a team of knowledgeable folks dedicated to building GW2’s virtual economy decided to charge a fee a certain way because that’s the way eBay does it.

You still don’t understand. Take a step back and ask yourself “How is this transaction being completed?” Answer – Through the Trading Post.

This isn’t just a matter of “you pay because that’s how it works” or “because people are familiar with Ebay”. You are using a tool that’s acting as a 3rd party to connect you with another player. If you have something to sell, the TP finds you a buyer. If there’s something you want to buy, the TP finds you the goods and seller. And if you want to use this tool to complete the transaction, there’s a fee.

Just like going to the supermarket to buy milk. The market is the “tool” which brings together you (the consumer) with the milk (supplier). The fee here is the retail price bump. But I can sense you might push back at this example, seeing as how it’s not a true exchange, so let’s look at stock trading. You can’t just go out and purchase shares of Arenanet, you need a 3rd party broker to make that happen. In order to use this 3rd party tool, there’s a fee. Same goes if you want to sell your shares, there’s a fee for that too. You pay up front, via deposited credits in an account or such, or you pay cash before the transaction is complete.

The other “economic” reason for this is that it’s a Goldsink. John Smith, as well as a lot of other excellent players in these forums, has explained this over and over as to why Goldsinks exist.

If you feel the fee isn’t fair, or don’t want to pay any extra %, you can do what we did in GW1. Use a trading forum or all-chat in game. But as I said before, you take the risk of doing trades via the mail system in GW2.

Behellagh.1468:

As I’ve come to realize from the other thread on the fees/taxes that the problem deals with being the recipient of a fortuitous drop of a precursor weapon, or other very marketable and expensive item, that you don’t want yourself but to simply “go for the gold” so to speak. I thought it was some kind of scam to allow a market trader to simply use all their capital instead of maintaining a reserve, until I thought a bit on it and realize that was utterly wrong.

The problem is when you can sell a drop for 600g and not having 30g to use the TP to sell it to someone with a 600g offer already on the table. What’s interesting is this could also dovetail into the thread about loans.

What we need here is some kind of “payday” loan at the TP, administrated by the TP and only used for the 5% bid fee. If a player does not have the cash to pay said bid fee they would be given an option, only if they choose a ready buyer, to have the bid fee taken at transaction time plus an additional 1%. So you will end up having 16% taken in the end.

It’s an additional gold sink to fight inflation of the money supply. A seller with a spot of luck but low on cash can sell that expensive item and still end up with quite the windfall. And since it’ll only work on an immediate sale to someone with an existing bid on it there isn’t the problem with canceling the sale and making sure the seller isn’t getting a much longer term loan. That might actually be a great addition to the TP.

I’d go one step further. If a player can’t afford the fee, that same player should be paying a much higher rate than people who can afford it. You could call it a “penalty” or sorts. Maybe an additional 10% deduction from the final sale price on top of the TP’s fee schedule (25% total). 1% seems a bit too low.

Pandemoniac.4739:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Behellagh’s post, while long and quite funny, answer’s the OP’s question. However, I can understand why he doesn’t get it. So I’ll try to make it a bit more simple.

Well first, I’m a “she” and second, I understand quite well the purpose of the fees, I think they are a good thing, and I have no trouble paying them. I don’t think you understand my question.

See the 2nd paragraph in my previous post.

Not only should we keep food buffs, but we need GEARS back in WvW!

Your reinforced gates will only melt that fast if no one is defending. A couple of Superior ACs and a Cata behind the gate does wonders in slowing down rushes. Ventrillo/Teamspeak/Mumble also helps with calling for backup.

So it finally happened. People will now complain that they’ll be getting too many Clovers instead of T6 mats.

May the RNG gods shine brightly for us all!