Guild Wars 2

Don’t waste their time with submitting a ticket for this. If you deleted your character by mistake, they will not bring it back. Account Restorations are only for those who were hacked.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Death Reincarnated.3570:

The inflation on gold/gem is getting worse. The prices are constantly going up and the ratio between gold-to-gem and gem-to-gold is slowly moving appart.

Also I have, on several occasions, observed that mystical plot based on ‘y=mx+c’. If this is not an indication of market manipulation then please correct me if I’m wrong.

You’re wrong on two issues.

1) Inflation happens over time. The dollar in 1970 is not the same as a dollar in 1975, 1980, 1985, etc. It’s not getting worse, it’s just running it’s normal course.

2) There is no market manipulation.

0_o ???

1) Have you ever wondered what is causing the dollar value to change? One or several aspects of the economy get manipulated by individuals/groups and eventually, over time, the economy has to ‘adjust’, or as you said “…it’s just running it’s normal course.”.

2) Refer to 1)

Also, I’m still waiting on an awser to this – “On several occasions I have observed the mystical plot based on ‘y=mx+c’. If this is not an indication of market manipulation then please correct me if I’m wrong”

So please, anyone, prove me wrong this is not part of market manipulation.

So… you’re saying inflation in the real world is cause by a person or a group of people manipulating the market? Must be them Illuminati eh?

Welcome to the market my friend!

It’s because of market manipulation.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

The inflation on gold/gem is getting worse. The prices are constantly going up and the ratio between gold-to-gem and gem-to-gold is slowly moving appart.

Also I have, on several occasions, observed that mystical plot based on ‘y=mx+c’. If this is not an indication of market manipulation then please correct me if I’m wrong.

You’re wrong on two issues.

1) Inflation happens over time. The dollar in 1970 is not the same as a dollar in 1975, 1980, 1985, etc. It’s not getting worse, it’s just running it’s normal course.

2) There is no market manipulation.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

But IT IS possible to manipulate the market.

If one knows the chokepoint(s), one can manipulate the flow(s).

It’s all about knowing how to gain enough money to be on the chockepoints level, then by consistantly getting money from lower level trading, you can begin to influence the chockepoint, which is at the higher trading level, and thus eventually can control it.

There is alot of psychological games to played within the context of market/trading. One can get most profit if they can stay ahead of the game…it is like a chess game.

/sigh

That’s not market manipulation. That’s just a player being smart. And one person, even one group of people, cannot manipulate a game wide market that’s on 24/7.

Nike.2631:

Does anyone think that what we have in game right now hit that mark?

See my post above. I’ll even quote it for your convenience.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

So sum things up, Legendary weapons are a symbol time and dedication to 1) gathering the mats to craft it or 2) making enough money to buy one. Regardless of which path you fall in, it’s still very impressive of a feat to pull off.

And most complainers are just jealous they don’t have the time and dedication to get their own Legendary in break neck speeds. Heaven forbid they get their own Legendary a year or two from now… as it was intended.

So sum things up, Legendary weapons are a symbol time and dedication to 1) gathering the mats to craft it or 2) making enough money to buy one. Regardless of which path you fall in, it’s still very impressive of a feat to pull off.

And most complainers are just jealous they don’t have the time and dedication to get their own Legendary in break neck speeds. Heaven forbid they get their own Legendary a year or two from now… as it was intended.

When you assume, you make a butt out of you and me.

My whole point is that I wouldn’t be able to manipulate the market, let alone one single item. Because the game population is so large, and market movements are active 24/7, one person with money can’t do much. There are thousands upon thousands who use the TP. Some to get rid of spare mats, some to get rid or equipment, and some to turn a profit by making it a mini game all in itself.

But then you say a bunch of people could control it together? Let’s assume that’s true. If these people effectively control the prices on the TP, to a price point where it’s ridiculously high, people will turn to another source of the items… Farming. You see, the TP isn’t the only place you can get mats or equipment. All the goods available on the market today are available <gasp> from playing the game </gasp>.

But then the argument comes up with Precursors or Legendary weapons. As soon as you mention one of these items, your argument is a fail before it began. You cannot use the term “market manipulation” when you speak of luxury or exotic goods. The supply of such items are always low to begin with, and people don’t actually “need” the goods in the first place. Just like I don’t “need” a private yacht or a Lamborghini. If you want the item, you pay whatever the price the seller asks. If not, settle for a fishing boat or a Toyota. Do not confuse the term “need” with “desire”.

People in the forums tend to be like Skritt. Someone shouts “market manipulator”, and everyone and their neighbor will follow along collectively. In Freud’s crowd behavior theory, people who are in a crowd act differently towards people from those who are thinking individually. People are pushing back at John Smith and the others who preach reason, because it’s easier to cast blame on “manipulation” rather than the fact that GW2 has a dynamic player driven market.

So I propose a challenge to prove the crowds wrong, but I need John Smith’s help. If you would be so kind as to add 2,000 Gold to my bank account, I’ll go out and prove that I won’t be able to manipulation the market as I please. This would be strictly for research purposes. In return for this, I’ll be giving Anet valuable research information, as well as solid evidence that manipulating the market isn’t as prevalent as one might believe. I won’t enjoy this one bit, but I’m willing to sacrifice my time for the betterment of the GW2 community.

Clouded Judgement.7834:

Still doesn’t help. I want my friend to be able to get some Expansion slots or maybe the Deluxe upgrade. I paid the money why can’t I send the gems.

Answer – Because you can’t.

To add to Ursan’s posts, inflation is usually caused by the Gold supply outpacing the economy’s growth overall.

What we’re seeing here is simply a higher demand for items by a larger population with more disposable income. The more a Precursor is demanded, the faster the price will rise. Why? Because if someone wants it bad enough, they’ll pay what the sellers are asking.

But hark, we’re off topic. This thread is supposed to be about how awesome John Smith is. Please don’t deviate from it.

1) You had an inappropriate name. Most of us can see what you’re doing.
2) You’re currently botting in game, which will lead to a ban.
3) Someone can still log into your account and kick you off, even if you’re online.

On topic – I wish I had John Smith as my roommate back in college. My business degree would have been much easier with his mind around.

Gonna switch back to the topic with the following suggestion:

Make all precursors only drop after completing the Mad King Clocktower on hardmode (simply with a timer that’s 10 seconds less). With all the people complaining that there’s no skill involved in making Legendaries, this should teach them all a lesson.

Aren’t “unidentified objects” just loot that can be ID’d with a tool that may be released later on?

cargan.5689:

I may spend my time in WvW hunting down people with Dreamer kill them now before they mutate into care bears with a hug attack and an i love you finishing move.

The I Love You attack is called the Care Bear Stare.

Well, I think your Thief’s name was the one that was reported, not the others. It would be interesting to know if they only look at the reported name, rather than the full account’s character list. As for your account name itself, it could be that no one made an effort to reporting that… yet.

But going back to the offensive part, try sounding out your abbreviated initials. I’m guessing that’s what when through the mind of the GM that infracted you. That’s all I’m really trying to say.

Husanak.3769:

Indeed all this means is people are dumping what ever they had short term…. and wait to rebuy in the next few weeks when prices level out… and wait, for the rebound.

This doesn’t make much sense. If you are dumping your goods for cheap, only to buy them back later at higher prices, that means you’re losing money.

I think what you meant was that people are dumping their goods, and investors are gobbling them up and waiting for the rebound.

It’s not the Barracuda that’s offensive, but the “F K” part.

This is just the market panicking, just as Kareth says. The smart investors will be buying up all the cheap supply, thus forcing prices back up, albeit not as high as they were yesterday.

I hereby request that Anet make an official Quaggan Backpack, or at the very least, a 10" plushie.

Charge us Gems or cash. I don’t care. Just do it, and do it now.

Sidenote – If one is to be made, it should NOT be a cheap carnival give-a-way type plushie. Us GW2 players deserve only the best quality Quaggan.

Now just make this a real life item, and I’ll pay any price!

An Arena.net logo cutie mark on the butt of the unicorn? There’s even more incentive to dodge those shots now.

I’ll be providing layman’s translations to the current complaints:

- I want “x lodestone” really bad, so Anet make it easier to get to satisfy my personal gaming preferences.

- I choose to want “x Legendary weapon” because of the cosmetic looks over the stats, so Anet make it easier for me to craft in a short time frame.

- I choose to play over 1,000 hours in the same area of the world, with no enjoyment, instead of exploring other aspects of this game, so Anet need to mold their updates to benefit me.

This is what everything looks like when I read the forums. It’s all about “me me me” and “my way is everyone’s way”. The same complainers don’t understand that they make a choice to play the game “cosmetically”, when they fully understand they can get the same stat gear for 100 times cheaper.

By the way, Ascended gear technically isn’t that much more powerful than their jewel-slotted Exotic counterparts. The efficiencies you gain from wearing Ascended gear make no difference if you have no combat skills. For example, the top guys from my WäR guild could fight wearing nothing but white or blue gear, and take down fully Exotic geared people with ease.

Plasmacutter. I know you’re a smart guy, as you give compelling arguments. But take a step back and analyze your own posts from a 3rd person perspective. You are complaining that a “long term goal” is taking a “long time”. I believe that your desire to reach your goals quickly is clouding the fact that rare items are “rare” for a reason.

There are casual gamers, there are hardcore gamers, and everything in between for all types of games. For GW2, the hardcore players managed to get their Legendaries faster because they invested time. Let’s not talk about the exploits that Anet already banned people for. Focus on the players who know where to farm, are skilled at clearing Dungeons and Fractals (without shortcutting), and who know how to take advantage of the in-game market. By asking for more drops or easy mode to Legendary gear, you ignore the efforts of other players who took the time to get where they are.

Anet can make balance adjustments to certain things, like how they’ll be putting out a Precursor Hunt in the future. That gives more opportunity for players to start their quests. I like how a compromise on this issue is a good first step, but I will not agree with making high tier mats uber easy to farm. If they increased drop rates significantly, I would argue that they should make Clovers much harder to get than the currently assumed 33% rates. It would help to keep Legendaries as the ultimate end game, since they are supposed to be the rarest of the rare gear.

Note – yes I know you can purchase a Legendary weapon from the TP, but with the current prices, it’s still a legendary effort to get that much gold in the first place.

darkace.8925:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Why does a Ferrari cost so much more than my Toyota Camry? They’re both cars.

The performance of a Ferrari is vastly superior to that of your Toyota Camry. The performance of a 20-slot bag is only marginally better than that of an 18-slot bag, yet it’s priced as if it were vastly superior.

It’s not so much superior since speed limit laws reduce the impact of having more horsepower over another vehicle.

And while we’re on this subject, 20 slots are much more superior than everything else, since it’s more balanced looking having 10 slots shown on top and 10 on the bottom.

There are so many people who feel entitled to easy mode. While I would personally LOVE to have lodestones drop a lot, I understand the concept of “Common”, “Uncommon”, and “Rare”, so I can see why people complain so much.

The thing that makes rare items so desirable, be it in the game or in real life, is the status connected to them. Thus, people will have a strong desire to get them, and will demand the world be flipped upside down to satisfy their own personal needs. Have a Louis Vuitton bag? That woman sure is stylish, I want one too! Have a Ferrari? That dude is living the good life, sure wish I were him. Have Twilight? Wow let me take screen caps of you spinning it around on your Guardian and then petition Anet to make it super easy for everyone to get.

But should something be so easy to get, and then everyone has it, that single fact will diminish the “awe factor” of owning one in the first place. The item is no longer rare, so why covet it so much? They’ll just move on to the next rare thing, and then complain about that. It would be an endless cycle of griefing from a small percentage of the population.

Let me repeat something that MANY players have said already. Legendary weapons are a LONG TERM GOAL. Just because someone has one at the beginning on a new game, doesn’t mean everyone is entitled to it. Certain people worked hard early to get the Mystic Forge recipe, then worked even harder to farm all the mats needed.

John has said that there’s nothing out of reach, and he’s correct. Play the game, and in time, you too can have the good stuff. If you can’t get your lodestones by tomorrow, aim for next week, or next month, or next year. Can’t farm a temple? Find an alternative way to get the drops. Still not happy? You have the option to buy them off of the TP. Don’t wanna give gold to people selling? Then find something else fun to do.

Why does a Ferrari cost so much more than my Toyota Camry? They’re both cars.

We need to get back to the point of “entitlement”. This isn’t an assumption or an accusation. It’s a simple fact that we human beings tend to lean towards better things than what we already have. We all deserve to have the best things this game can offer, but the difference here is who is willing to make the effort?

As a real world example (using extremes), say you own a Pinto, but you really want that Mustang. What would you do? You have the choices of living with the Pinto, and being happy with what you have. You can be jealous and angry at the guy driving the Mustang. Or you can work hard, and over time, afford to buy the Mustang for yourself.

Legendaries are a long term goal, much like wanting that Mustang. And you have different choices in game. You can be happy with your Rare or Exotic gear. You can be jealous and angry at the guy showing off his Twilight. Or you can work hard and craft a Legendary for yourself… over time. To add to the latter, farming monsters or playing the Trading Post are ways to achieve your goals.

Now as for the complaints about drop rates, that’s all in the eye of the beholder. If you play for 4 hours, and you don’t get what you want, don’t assume that everyone else is suffering. I played for 30 minutes, and got two Charged Lodestone drops from Sparks yesterday, but nothing today. Remember, monster drops are random from a table of available items. Just like with Black Lion chests. You may have gotten a drop that you don’t like, but that same item would make another player happy.

This segues into another point from Plasma. He mentions the “flaming sword” argument, where there are no alternatives to Volcanus. For those who have HoM from GW1, you get a free “flaming sword” as one of your rewards. But it’s not the same skin, much like how an iPhone is not the same as an HTC. You want it because it looks great, but are upset that you can’t own one easily.

Remember this – players collectively control prices on the TP. The market is based off of simple Supply vs. Demand. A lot of people want lodestones, coupled with the fact that they’re RARE, and this leads to higher prices. Why? Because sellers know people are willing to pay the price for the prestige.

And having Anet making something that is “Rare” more available isn’t a solution. It’s like the government saying “let’s print a lot more money and pass it out to everyone”. I’m sure most of us would have an idea of what would happen to the economy in that scenario.

Most of the complaints here can be summed up by one of the following:

1) Player has little to no understanding of how markets or Supply vs. Demand work.

2) Player feels entitled to the best items in game, and complains when they can’t purchase high demand materials for cheap.

For point #1, that can be fixed by people reading posts like Death Reincarnated made. I do believe that over time, the more people that come to understanding the GW2 market, the less complaints there will be overall.

And unfortunately, there’s no fix for point #2…

Recently, the Dept. of Homeland Security issued a warning about a major Java vulnerability that may expose computers to hacks and keyloggers. This may help put all conspiracy theories to rest as to why players got their accounts hacked, when they say they’re fully secure. I wanted to share this with the Guild Wars community, because all of us players should be mindful of problems like this.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/11/tech/web/java-vulnerability/index.html

Gaile and other Anet reps have stated that the servers are secure, and I’ve always believed that they would be forthcoming if there was a breach. If a forum moderator or Community Manager feels this warning should belong somewhere else, I apologize in advance.

Simply put, undercutting is the Nash equilibrium.

evo.8640:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I think Evo is confusing what a monopoly is. A monopoly is a single seller of goods. The Trading Post is a structured tool that helps to facilitate trade between players. And by using this tool, there are fees involved. If you don’t like the fees, you are free to trade directly via the mail system, but at your own risk.

I can understand certain players’ frustrations. There is a lot of hatred and jealousy in this game when it comes to owning big shiny things, or the ability to do well in the economy. Smart people made a lot of money, and thus became that 1% so many others hate. But honestly, we shouldn’t be mad that these people are successful. I’m really jealous of people who were able to read market trends, and stockpile T6s mats before the prices skyrocketed. In an earlier post, I had laid out the reasons why prices started to increase, but at the same time, I failed to take advantage of the situation. The result, I only bought a few good stuff when I should have bought many.

One last thing. A “free market” isn’t where all things are free. It means that prices on goods in this economy are based on Supply and Demand, with free competition between sellers. And yes, if you know how to manipulate Supply, you can make money. That’s one of the downsides to having a free market that isn’t regulated by the government (or in this case, Anet).

A monopoly isn’t a term that is simply limited to define a business supplier’s control, lack of competition or ability to envelope or destroy competition. But to describe control held solely or by majority from a single entity.

In this case: Anet’s TP. What I was speaking for was being in favor of giving players more safe options than just one. When players have more options, every one wins.

Being forced with no other avenue but the TP to sell items is much like taking away the ability to conduct a private sale in real life and only limit a person to selling their items that they no longer want on say Amazon, with no other place or means to do so but Amazon. This is the span of control and thus makes their control over transactions a monopoly.

I’m perfectly fine with market manipulation and cornering. I wouldn’t be electronically financially sound and set to buy anything I like if such a “free market” didn’t allow it. And in real life, I’m not a OWS guy. Quite the opposite.

However, I still stand in the corner that’s for giving players more options than one narrow avenue to conduct safe trade.

Don’t use the term “monopoly” so loosely that it applies to the economy. With your thinking, Anet has a monopoly on Guild Wars players. You can’t play Guild Wars with any other game company’s client, thus they have sole control. It’s like saying the Ocean is blue, the Sky is blue, so the Ocean is the Sky.

No one is forced to use the TP. You can still make private transactions like in real life. And as with real life, you do so at your own risk. The tools on the TP make trades safer, quicker, and simpler. You want “Item A” for X coins? Do a search and find it. If it’s not a price you want, place a Buy Order and allow others to fill it. Sellers who want the convenience of this tool just pays fees from the listing of the item, and the final sale price.

Think of the TP like a Farmer’s Market, or Swap Meet. Sellers pay a fee to have access to the area, and Buyers roam around looking for deals.

It costs you money and resources to level up. Once you hit lv 400, and you start to make high level items, that’s when you have a chance to make money. But even that is left to who would want to buy it (Supply vs Demand). So there’s no guarantee you’ll make money back.

>OP

You weren’t scammed. You just made a choice that you regret. Big difference.

I think Evo is confusing what a monopoly is. A monopoly is a single seller of goods. The Trading Post is a structured tool that helps to facilitate trade between players. And by using this tool, there are fees involved. If you don’t like the fees, you are free to trade directly via the mail system, but at your own risk.

I can understand certain players’ frustrations. There is a lot of hatred and jealousy in this game when it comes to owning big shiny things, or the ability to do well in the economy. Smart people made a lot of money, and thus became that 1% so many others hate. But honestly, we shouldn’t be mad that these people are successful. I’m really jealous of people who were able to read market trends, and stockpile T6s mats before the prices skyrocketed. In an earlier post, I had laid out the reasons why prices started to increase, but at the same time, I failed to take advantage of the situation. The result, I only bought a few good stuff when I should have bought many.

One last thing. A “free market” isn’t where all things are free. It means that prices on goods in this economy are based on Supply and Demand, with free competition between sellers. And yes, if you know how to manipulate Supply, you can make money. That’s one of the downsides to having a free market that isn’t regulated by the government (or in this case, Anet).

This week’s match has been the best I’ve played in WEEKS! I felt BP was gonna get steamrolled by Mags in the beginning, but we kept it close. Now it’s a pretty even 3 way, with Devona’s starting to take all of the maps.

I’d like this to go on for months. Here’s to hoping no one moves up or down the ladder in our tier.

:3

>Enigma

Very good read. I fully agree that freebies can throw the economy off balance. But the major flaw I see is that people have this “Entitled” mindset. If a Jumping Puzzle is too hard, they’ll complain for easy mode. If Lodestones don’t drop as often as a player would like, they’ll complain for more drops. And if the Scavenger Hunt gave a random Precursor, and not allow you to choose which you want, people will complain about that too.

People will complain about anything that doesn’t go their way. I don’t know if Anet, or any game developer, would be able to satisfy everyone in their games.

I think this thread has been derailed. Why exactly are we mad about 1 copper undercuts again? 1 copper less than the current price is still less right?

And 2 copper is 100% more than 1 copper, so that’s vastly different, but still less.

Technically, you need to list an item before it can be sold on the TP. Meeting a Buy Order is shortcutting the process for the seller, but the fees are there as if you posted the item for sale as normal. So there’s nothing strange about being charged fees or taxes.

Welcome to my world Plok!

BTW – someone mentioned that Devona has a Guild that always exploits. Is this true, or a load of kitten?

There seems to be a lot of people who don’t understand how exploits can hurt the in game economy…

2 wrongs don’t make a right. That ain’t never gonna happen.

The thing is, if we were allowed free reposts, that would open up more complaints from the same people who think 1 copper is different than 1 copper on another item.

At least with the current system, there are some checks and balances with having to pay the 5% each time you post or repost.

I was gonna make a thread on Game Theory one day when I had time. Nice that you bring that up Highly.

Vorpal Smilodon.3025:

EVERYONE is a 1c undercutter, that’s the problem. There’s no point in the market being first in first out if charging 1c less makes you count as a separate queue.

I think the way to fix this is to only allow two digit values(not counting zeroes), ie 12 gold or 120000 copper having 11 gold as the next lowest possible offer, then 10 gold, then 990 silver

With your idea, if the current price is 11 Gold, you couldn’t offer 10, since that has a zero in it.

But we all agreed that 2 copper undercuts solves the problem of this thread.

Well, I tried to be a nice guy about this. But a majority of the community is against this idea, so I’ll be going back to my 1 copper undercuts.

Thank you everyone for your input.

Rouven.7409:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

People seem to misunderstand my thread. Allow me to clarify. I have no problem with 1 copper undercuts. Because of this, jealous people rage at me, claiming that I don’t understand their feelings. I’m merely trying to offer an olive branch, a way to compromise so that all the angry people stop hating me for playing the game.

There are those who are trying to convince everyone that 1 copper is valued differently than 1 copper. To me, it doesn’t make sense, as if they’re saying their coin is better than mine, when we all have the same thing. Since I can’t understand this concept, I figured we can form a collective Union, and agree where we can be agreeable.

How exactly do they rage at you? Is there a new label that I missed saying “sold by smooth penguin”?

It all comes down to me defending my 1 copper undercut tactics, and they call me a troll. Then everyone started talking about how 1 copper undercuts are only ok in certain situations, but it shouldn’t be allowed in others.