Guild Wars 2

Check to see if someone else undercut you. If there are a lot of sellers ahead of you, then you may want to consider changing your price.

Ursan.7846:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

The way I see it, manipulation is a term with negative connotations. I’d rather call it “revenue generating transactions”.

Positive or negative connotation or not, I wish people would define what they think the term is better. The impression I get from multiple users is that they use this term to mean someone who buys out the supply in an attempt to re-sell and profit. There’s a clear and narrow definition of the motivation.

But there’s other forms of “manipulation” where it’s not all that clear-cut. Sometimes a person just wants to buy 1000000 walnuts. That will spike up the sell orders in spidy. Or someone just sees no sell listings available for precursors, and prices it a lot higher in hopes of getting more gold . Again, you’ll see a spike in spidy. But the motivation isn’t as malevolent as the posters here seem to insinuate.

I see where you’re coming from. I just wish they would stop tying the term “market manipulation” to their conspiracy theories. It’s hard to have serious discussions in the forums when players post topics akin to saying “Big Foot ate my baby”. The troll in me feels compelled to respond in kind.

Some of the tips I posted were how to maximize gains, since 1 copper is the minimum required difference to be first in line. Tips on market flipping is a whole different ballgame.

Ursan.7846:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

You’re right, manipulation is bad thing. But it’s a good thing that it isn’t happening in this game.

Eeeeh. I’d dispute that.

“Manipulation” definitely happens in this game. I define it as players buying/selling large amount of items and the prices of it goes up due to sell orders being bought up. But all manipulation does in this game is to drive prices faster to the “equilibrium” where supply/demand meets. It’s incredibly hard, if not impossible, to buy up all sell orders and re-list them again for profit.

Think about it for a sec. Say you have item A, and below are the sell listings.

10 for 10s
10 for 11s
10 for 12s.

So say if you buy out 10 for 10s. The lowest sell price is not 11s. Even if you re-list them, you’re not making a profit.

Say you buy 20 then, 10 for 10s and 10 for 11s. You’re still not making any profit if you sell these 20 at the higher sell order. Even though selling it at 12s covers the tax for the stuff you buy at 10s, you’ve still bought half your goods at 11s, so you lose money (Do the calculations, you lose 6s overall.)

And I think that’s what people miss when they see jumps in sell orders on Spidy.com. Just because the sell order is listed at 10s and suddenly jumps to 20s, that doesn’t mean all the sell listing was bought at 10s. No, it was bought at 10, 11, 12….whatever sell orders it had in between. Hence if you re-list it all at 20s, you’re losing money.

TL;DR Manipulation happens, but profiting from it is near impossible.

The way I see it, manipulation is a term with negative connotations. I’d rather call it “revenue generating transactions”.

Well the keys here are that if you are the lowest priced seller, your item will sell first. If you have the highest Buy Order price, your order will be filled first. And all it takes is a 1 copper difference. Proper value of an item is in the eye of the beholder.

nergoza.6387:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

nergoza.6387:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Just to clarify: Anet not helping to retrieve the item in question isn’t “punishment”. The player made a mistake, end of story. I agree with Anet staying neutral in cases like this, because it was an agreement between two players. They should not take sides in this dispute, and I feel they should not ban anyone either.

And there already is a player to player trading system. It’s called the Black Lion Trading Company.

So explain why there is a “Scamming” report function in game.

Agreement between two people , one person scams. If arenanet can’t retrieve the item , i can understand that.But for the person to get away with it , makes me feel you support scammers yourself.

Try selling an item for 2500 gold and see how much is the fee , pretty discouraging.

And keep in mind this person who im selling to has over 6.k+ achievement points and is a commander in Desolation.

Don’t get me wrong here. I don’t support any scammer. HOWEVER, what’s to say that the OP isn’t lying? What if there was some agreement between two players, and one decided to back out of the completed deal? Then what you have here is a transaction that may have been completed without problems, but one player is trying to undo everything.

This is the reason why I don’t think Anet should get involved. It’s a matter of he said/she said. If an account was hacked, that’s more clear cut, as Anet has the ability to look at server side login reports, whereas they don’t have access to “Gentlemen Agreements”.

I am the OP , ArenaNet , can trace chat logs. Also i took SS’s of all the steps that went down.

I’m over it now to be honest and im focusing my next 1-2 legendaries.

Thanks for everyone who contributed in this thread.

Sorry, didn’t realize that you were the OP. But in any case, agreements can happen outside of the game too. Phone calls, text messages, AIM chats, Skype, etc. If it were that easy to get people in trouble, I could theoretically mail you my Dusk, then tell Anet you scammed me.

Point is, there are two sides to a story. I’m sure Anet has an internal policy to address situations like this, but they need to be careful as to not hit the Perma Ban button without solid facts.

Ubi.4136:

We really don’t need people manipulating the market and breaking the economy in the exact same fashion as they have done in the real world.

You’re right, manipulation is bad thing. But it’s a good thing that it isn’t happening in this game.

nergoza.6387:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Just to clarify: Anet not helping to retrieve the item in question isn’t “punishment”. The player made a mistake, end of story. I agree with Anet staying neutral in cases like this, because it was an agreement between two players. They should not take sides in this dispute, and I feel they should not ban anyone either.

And there already is a player to player trading system. It’s called the Black Lion Trading Company.

So explain why there is a “Scamming” report function in game.

Agreement between two people , one person scams. If arenanet can’t retrieve the item , i can understand that.But for the person to get away with it , makes me feel you support scammers yourself.

Try selling an item for 2500 gold and see how much is the fee , pretty discouraging.

And keep in mind this person who im selling to has over 6.k+ achievement points and is a commander in Desolation.

Don’t get me wrong here. I don’t support any scammer. HOWEVER, what’s to say that the OP is lying? What if there was some agreement between two players, and he decided to back out of the completed deal? Then what you have here is a transaction that may have been completed without problems, but one player is trying to undo everything.

This is the reason why I don’t think Anet should get involved. It’s a matter of he said/she said. If an account was hacked, that’s more clear cut, as Anet has the ability to look at server side login reports, whereas they don’t have access to “Gentlemen Agreements”.

Just to clarify: Anet not helping to retrieve the item in question isn’t “punishment”. The player made a mistake, end of story. I agree with Anet staying neutral in cases like this, because it was an agreement between two players. They should not take sides in this dispute, and I feel they should not ban anyone either.

And there already is a player to player trading system. It’s called the Black Lion Trading Company.

nullixin.9462:

Rares as in yellow-rarities, darling.

Oh… I salvage anything yellow that shows up.

Mike.7236:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

You say you’re watching the market of Skritt Bag of Shinies. So before I go on and debunk your conspiracy, allow me to get more details from you.

Where are you getting these numbers of 1750 bags dropping at once? Are you purchasing 2000 of these bags, and seeing it trickle in for pickup?

Please “debunk” it if you can, I’m only interested in learning the truth.

This is what happens, in detail:

I’m putting in buy orders for several thousand bags at a time, for instance 3000 or so. And as I’m busy doing so (I may still be busy putting out more buy orders), the pickup button lights up, I check it, and voíla, there are 750, 125, or 1750 bags for immediate pickup!

I start unpacking the mats within, and while I’m busy doing so, a single bag drops, the three more a minute later. And then suddenly, all my remaining orders are filled. I put out more buy orders and keep unpacking. Soon I have to stop putting out more buy orders, because they are filling faster than i can unpack them. Always in huge loads.

Then I sell the mats. The least profit I’ve ever seen has been 25 %. The highest 90 %.

Ursan already made a good post, but I’ll add to it.

Game has millions of players spread across multiple servers. The Trading Post is game wide, thus technically, millions of players have access to it. Out of those millions of players, there may be 3 for 4 who have stacks of the item available for your Buy Order. It takes only seconds to sell, and then perhaps a slight lag to deliver them to your account for pickup.

Conspiracy busted.

You say you’re watching the market of Skritt Bag of Shinies. So before I go on and debunk your conspiracy, allow me to get more details from you.

Where are you getting these numbers of 1750 bags dropping at once? Are you purchasing 2000 of these bags, and seeing it trickle in for pickup?

I’ve noticed that if someone isn’t good at something (i.e. Dueling), they’ll complain that it isn’t part of the rules, and cry delicious tears.

Ursan.7846:

Possible, but I’ve seen conspiracy theorist believe in some craaazy things. I can believe that the OP really believes in his “theory.”

Did you know that if you’re religious, RNG favors you? That’s my theory anyways.

I thought all the rare Fractal stuff was Account Bound.

There’s a lot of people who don’t know how to use the Black Lion Trading Post. I’d like to take this time to enlighten everyone on how to use this market tool with some tips.

Tip #1 – When selling items, always undercut the highest priced item by 1 copper. By doing this, you can maximize profits. As long as your item is the lowest priced listing, it will always sell first.

Tip #2 – When placing Buy Orders, always “overcut” or outbid the highest offer by 1 copper. By doing this, you’re able to get your Buy Orders filled for the best possible prices.

Tip #3 – Always be near a Black Lion Trading Co. representative. You never know when you might need to pick up stuff.

Tip #4 – If your Buy Order isn’t listed first anymore, cancel your order, and repeat #2. Should it turn into a bidding war, you should keep refreshing to see when someone outbids you. Then keep increasing the Buy Order price by 1 copper until it reaches a price you feel isn’t worth it anymore.

Bonus tip – If you have extra Gold, it’s a good idea to convert them into Gems. Keep an eye on the exchange rates, as holiday events and sales promotions tend to make converting expensive. By watching the market trends, get in when the exchange is the lowest.

The market is only broken for two reasons:

1) You don’t understand it
2) See #1.

Phira.3970:

How can you not help refund the OP his Sunrise? It is the system that is at fault, not the player. I know many players are selling through mail just to avoid TP fee because it’s definitely not a “small” fee when selling for 1000g+. I’m sure there are many other players being scammed. What can you expect from the players? Just tell them to use TP when it was the TP fee system that caused this mess in the first place?

edit: Actually, I thought I’d be more elaborate on this. If an insurance company insures your car for $20,000, and your car is actually only worth $10,000, it would make sense to purposely destroy that car. AKA Moral hazard. Who is at fault? The person who destroyed the car? Or the bad deal set by the insurance company? Just like moral hazard where when a system is bad, it causes these problems, in gw2, it’s the TP fee insane tax that causes this kind of problem. It’s not the players fault. And you can ban players. The problems won’t stop until you stop the source of the problem: the bad design of TP fee.

LOL! I love how people try to deflect blame when there’s something they don’t like (i.e. TP tax). While I know it’s really hard to reason with people with a strong sense of Entitlement, but I’ll try. Say you want to buy a Louis Vuitton bag. It costs $700 at the mall, but you find one on Craigslist for $100. Oh boy, what a deal! So you meet the stranger and do the trade. Two things could happen here:

1) You buy the bag, but it turns out to be a fake. You ask for a refund, but the guy is no where around.
2) You give the guy the money, and he runs away. You can’t catch him, so you lose the money.

Long story short, you took the risk, and now you live with the consequences. With Phira’s mindset, he would blame Louis Vuitton for the high prices that forced him to go elsewhere for the goods.

On a side note, I personally feel Anet shouldn’t ban anyone in this case. This was a “Gentleman’s Agreement” between two people.

Gasoline.2570:

The demand for precursors is not going to drop. This is a given. Why was it when the prices were closing in to 400g anet said theyd be fixing this. They did for a brief time and now it’s worse than ever. People ran out of things to do, this isn’t an excuse to artifically make a legendary ultra super duper rare. Not especially when it’s first “intention” was to be a showcase of our accomplishments and achivements and it amounts to nothing but farming insane amounts of gold? Wat.

Demand will never drop for Precursors, it will always increase over time. If the Demand for an item increases faster than the Supply, price will never drop. That’s why you can never assume an increase in drop rates will lead to decreases in prices. Especially when players are the ones determining the price points.

Ohoni.6057:

Yes, people want cheaper gems, but Anet is not going to dump gems into the currency exchange.
The cheaper gems from that are going to impact its ability to sell gems to players for money, which is kind of important for its continued survival. You’re effectively asking ANet to shoot one of its main ways of making money in the foot.

Honestly, what I’d prefer even more is that they remove the gem exchange entirely, make cash money the only source for gems, but then make gold much more available, and higher priced items drop much more often, so that it’s much easier to get stuff, without risking that everyone would be able to buy all their Quagan backpacks using gold.

You might as well just ask Anet to deposit a Precursor into everyone’s bank. Doesn’t get easier than that.

Gasoline.2570:

Surferboy.1649:

I don’t anyone wants to pay 700g. But we just have to, because there is so much demand, that the sellers can do such prices. If the droprate would be higher, these prices weren’t possible, so Anet controls the prices somehow.
I mean, the producer of a game always controls everything, because he can change it the way he wants.
Of course their aim is not to influence the market, that’s why the prices go up and this aim is mostly really good, but in my view if a situation like this arises they have to react.

Well the problem is, the reason they go so far and beyond these kind of prices is that that this is where the demand and supply meet apparently as is, BUT BECAUSE the drop rate is so awful.

You can throw in 1000g in the toilet and get nothing. This is called forging a precursor, the alternative to a lucky drop, the thing that sets precursors price, actually. Lets say, an average of 2000 weapons in the toilet would net you a precursor and we multiply that with expense of average rare lets say 42s; that makes 840g. So something like that IS, in fact, the wanted price for precursors by arenanet. That is how much it would averagely(probably even more) to forge one for themselves due the drop rate.

Supply and demand would meet at say 300g when the drop rate would be increased to 1 precursor every 714 weapons or 178.5 tries – well actually probably around 400g due to unlucky tries, because, well it is still rng; you can still end up wasting 1000g and get nothing. So people would charge a premium for a confirmed precursor instead of gamble.

All I’m hearing is “I want Dusk really bad, so Anet make it cheaper. I don’t care for Dawn, or Bolt, or Venom, or Pink Flying Cow Bow of Wonder. I want Dusk, and since I can’t buy one, I’ll rage with illogical arguments until your ears bleed.”

Look, the drop rates for all Precursors are basically the same. Do you know what an item with a low drop rate is called? RARE. However, even if it’s rare, it won’t command value unless it’s desired.

Now let’s look at your example of increasing drop rates = lower price. That’s not always true. Price drops when Supply outpaces Demand. But if Demand increases faster than the Supply increase, prices still go up.

Behellagh.1468:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I believe the Gem Store and the Currency Exchange are different. One you buy directly from Anet, while the other you make constant flows of exchanges at a floating rate via pots of Gems and Gold.

Yes I know but Gems are only created on RM purchases (via Anet or Gem card) and destroyed when spent in the store. If they are used at the exchange to convert into gold, they are added to the exchange’s supply of Gems. We simply don’t have any idea about the size of the Gem pool at the exchange and how much it fluctuates by, at least directly. We can only infer pool fluctuation by the exchange rate.

My mistake. I misread your post.

Gasoline.2570:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Wait wait wait. I had no idea Anet is forcing me to sell my Dusk for 700 Gold. So if I were to put mine for sale at 400 Gold, will I be banned for not following the rules?

Man, this game just got so much more complicated.

Drop rates. Supply.

Learn to read.

I read perfectly fine:

Gasoline.2570:

All these arguments about why precursors are expensive and why gold goes up when there’s a sale are, basically, what they decide and want them to be like.

You’re making like we players aren’t the ones to determine the prices. Anet makes them rare, and we players determine the prices we want to pay. When there’s a sale of something desirable, we determine if we want to buy Gems with real money, or convert Gold to be able to buy it.

Ursan makes a valid point, where two equally rare items have different demand/values. People need to pay attention to his posts, as he’s probably one of the most intelligent posters here.

As for me, I think all these complaints come from people who have a strong sense of Entitlement, thus all the rage about market manipulation and conspiracies about Anet controlling prices when these players don’t get what they want.

I vote we delay the update. I have 20 stacks of Gears left, and I need to burn them all before it’s too late…

Toxophile.6215:

It’s probably more like I play too many characters. I have 4 80’s now, but only 1 in full exotic armor (rare weapons and jewels). I play a couple hours most nights, and an extra few on the weekend, but I am all over the place usually. The funny thing is, I consider myself to be casual, in that I don’t care about legendaries (but only because the process is, IMO, a damaging playstyle to encourage) and I’ve only ever run AC regularly. I have at least 1 craft at 400 on every toon, and one of them has all 8 at 400. I’ve never finished a storyline, leaving off at about 75%.

Basically, I am not hardcore at anything, and the 50 SP requirement seems pretty hardcore. You guys may not consider yourselves to be, but from my perspective, you are. And this means that the SP method isn’t a valid alternative to any of the other methods to get into exotics for people who aren’t hardcore about playing the game.

Even casuals can get tons of Skill Points over time. You’re making the mistake that there’s a time limit on getting all the good stuff you want. If you play the game how you want to play it, the SPs come quickly. Should you decide that you want all the good stuff right away, then you need to make the effort to play more. Simple as that.

Behellagh.1468:

Redscope.6215:

John Smith.4610:

As a quick aside. Gems in the currency exchange are finite. You may buy gems with real money to your hearts content, but if you don’t put any of them gems into the currency exchange the currency exchange’s stock of gems never changes.

Actually it sounds like what you’ve described is an INfinite amount of available gem stock. Unless what you’re saying is that if nobody buys gems with real money, nobody ever spent their gems, and everyone kept buying them with gold, then the system would eventually run out of gems, there’s an infinite amount of gems.

No, he’s saying if you choose just to spend your Gems at the Gem store, then the pool of Gems at the exchange never grows. It only grows if you buy Gems with real money and then convert them into Gold.

However if the pool is significantly large, it may take some time for that reserve to run out. However as the Gem pool shrinks, the conversion rate goes up and it becomes more attractive to convert Gems into gold thus restocking the pool.

This would explain why in the long view that the exchange rate has been on a steady climb since the game went live. The pool is growing smaller thus the exchange rate has been steadily rising. At some point it will reach a level where it will be attractive to more players to buy Gems for real money and convert them into gold. We’re just not there yet.

After all the game only makes money on sale of the game and the sale of Gems. Those are the only two sources of income to keep the game running and I’m guessing a reasonable chunk of the game sale goes toward paying off the 5 year development costs, depending how much NCsoft let ArenaNet keep from the GW1 days. Now I’ve read that F2P MMOs are aiming at 10% of their active player base to drop $15 a month in the store to be considered very successful. I expect that’s the plan here as well. A rising exchange rate helps that.

Digging through some EVE data, PLEX, their method of converting real money into ingame currency, was worth 325 million ISK at the start of 2009, it’s around 500 million right now and I believe they use a straight up market place to set the exchange rate. So inflation happens there as well and it’s entirely in the players control.

I believe the Gem Store and the Currency Exchange are different. One you buy directly from Anet, while the other you make constant flows of exchanges at a floating rate via pots of Gems and Gold.

Wait wait wait. I had no idea Anet is forcing me to sell my Dusk for 700 Gold. So if I were to put mine for sale at 400 Gold, will I be banned for not following the rules?

Man, this game just got so much more complicated.

Since there’s a finite pool of Gems in the exchange to work with, should someone “manipulate” it (since so many people love to throw around that word), it could empty, and no one would be able to convert their Gold for Gems.

The safety net to that is with more people converting Gold into Gems (as seen as spikes in the charts during promotions and holiday events), the exchange rate increases to the point where people would probably stop before the Gems ran out in the first place.

But that’s when players like me come in. When we see the rates for Gems to Gold getting more profitable, we jump in and put our own Gems back into the pot.

People are exchanging Gold for Gems to buy expansion slots. And then there’s people like me who are exchanging Gems for Gold to take advantage of the high rates. But the spike are more towards the Gold > Gem.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

@Smooth Penguin.5294 Do you know what ‘Comparing apples with oranges’ means in the general sense?

P.S. One /FF is enough I think (refer to other thread)

Mourningcry.9428:

Death Reincarnated.3570:

@Mourningcry.9428 I was looking at the TP, your example was based on using real currency…it’s like comparing apples with oranges.

The sale was on the price of two items in the gem store. These items are priced in gems. A 20% discount to the price was applied.

Trying to claim a 20% discount in the price of an item in gems should equate to a 20% discount in the floating exchange rate of gold to gems is nonsensical.

Have you ever seen an item in real life cost say $100 before the sale, and during a 20% OFF sale it costs $90? This is very similar, however the onyl thing that differs is that ANet predicts that the price of gems will go up and hence in the end it is not a 20% OFF sale, but much less. It is a marketing gimmick.

So why is it that it cost me 20% less when I used my Gems? I still don’t understand your fruit reference. Did you have to sell apples and oranges in real life in order to be able to afford the cost of buying Gems? If so, I applaud your entrepreneurship in owning a fruit stand.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Death Reincarnated.3570:

@Mourningcry.9428 I was looking at the TP, your example was based on using real currency…it’s like comparing apples with oranges

Apples and Oranges are the same, since they’re both fruit. I don’t understand where you’re going with this.

Do you know what ‘Comparing apples with oranges’ means in the general sense?

Also, have you ever seen an item in real life cost say $100 before the sale, and during a 20% OFF sale it costs $90? This is very similar, however the onyl thing that differs is that ANet predicts that the price of gems will go up and hence in the end it is not a 20% OFF sale, but much less. It is a marketing gimmick.

So why is it that it cost me 20% less when I used my Gems? I still don’t understand your fruit reference. Did you have to sell apples and oranges in real life in order to be able to afford the cost of buying Gems? If so, I applaud your entrepreneurship in owning a fruit stand.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

@Mourningcry.9428 I was looking at the TP, your example was based on using real currency…it’s like comparing apples with oranges

Apples and Oranges are the same, since they’re both fruit. I don’t understand where you’re going with this.

Mesket.5728:

kitanas.3596:

mesket, your complaint seems to be that legendaries are out of reach. You must have missed the podcast where they first revealed legendaries, because in it, they stated that they expected only 5% of thee playerbase to own a legendary. so it is perfectly reasonable to say that they should be rare, because that is what ANET expected them to be.

I agree 100% with you. Not even 5%; in my personal opinion only 1% should be able to get them… sadly is that this “rare” is less rare than you think since anyone can get one playing one handed.

My point is that those items (unfortunatly the only goal left for many people); are heavily attached to how much gold you can produce. This is what I find unfair, or not quite right. Scavenging hunt might as well be a solution or at least diminish “the harm” done. I just hope they don’t take too much to implement it.

Sorry, I’m trying to understand something here. You’re OK with something being so rare that only 1% should get it, but not OK if you aren’t a part of than 1%?

And Legendary weapons only cost 100 Gold. The rest of the components can be farmed or earned from the Forge. So it’s not as heavily influenced by how much Gold you can produce.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

@Mourningcry.9428 I was looking at the TP, your example was based on using real currency…it’s like comparing apples with oranges.

Apples and Oranges are the same, since they’re both fruit. I don’t understand where you’re going with this.

I love this! Now I’m getting much more Gold when I convert my Gems. Thanks guys!

Death Reincarnated.3570:

LOL, and it happend again.

600 Gems for bank slot (Gold to 100 Gems BEFORE 1.95G ave.) – 11.7G

480 Gems for bank slot (Gold to 100 Gems NOW 2.32G ave.) – 11.1G

Yes I saved 0.6G! Computer syas NO to 20% OFF SALE.

Another manipulation fiasco.

So why didn’t you convert your Gold into Gems before the sale? Seems someone is “manipulating” their facts here.

Mesket.5728:

Ursan.7846:

Mesket.5728:

1K+ hours played. DM tittle, World explored, tokens to throw to the roof, I have my T3 armor and sweet looking weapons… still 1/5th of the legendary just because I don’t play the market, I play the game and have horrible horrible luck (don’t really buy that DR stuck theory but they are really trying to convince me though)…

I already spent 5K+ AC tokens in exotics to the Mystic Toilet, killed hundreds of Dragons, did all the JPz… I can spent another 1K+ hours playing with the same luck.

System based of Luck is stupidly wrong for games already… Maybe 10 years ago, but everything threw up on luck is plain stupid and lazy.

NOTHING in this game guarantee your progress towards a Legendary without having extremely low chances of getting it. THAT is why you see hundreds of posts on the same subject… and as long as more and more people accumulate the same ammount of hours played and realized they are not being rewarded in gold or in drops you will see more and more posts of this. There is a small % who got one by doing the same thing I (and many else) are doing but doesn’t mean the current system is OK. Its just not.

But but but…you described many things that would progress you towards a precursor.

You obviously had to earn gold for your cultural. How did you do it? Keep on doing the same, eventually you’ll have enough money to buy it off the TP.

If you ran enough AC to have 5K tokens, you have to have a bunch of money from drops, loot, completion, etc. Save that money and eventually you’ll have enough money to buy it off the TP. (Btw, 5k tokens is like what….16 exotics of 300 tokens each? That’s not much dude.)

To say “nothing” in this game guarantees progress is false. You can earn gold, save, and work towards buying it off the TP if you don’t like the randomness of the MF.

So we go back to the begining of all… Its all a matter of gold. Find the fastest way to produce gold and exploit it. Forget about whatever is out there… make gold and you are set.

Sry… GW2 really dissapointed me.

But wait. You just proved a major argument point here. You made the CHOICE to divert all your resources into getting T3 gear, weapons, etc., instead of saving up the money to purchase a Precursor from the TP.

There were two paths to take:
1) Low risk and quick reward – steady price, but good looking T3 gear
2) High risk and high reward – requires saving up Gold. Precursor pricing volatile, with the risk that you’d waste a lot of money should prices crash with future Scavenger Hunt.

Both seemed to be desirable to you, but with time constraints, you can only pick one. So you picked the path with the lowest risk, yet yielding good rewards (T3 gear). In hindsight, you now regret this decision, and really want a Precursor instead.

The rollback is reserved for only those who meet a certain requirements. Being hacked is the main component of said requirement.

Ursan.7846:

Geopap.1725:

Yes,It’s a theory based on facts,and we are discussing -.-.

What facts have you presented so far?

His facts are speculation and hearsay.

Ursan.7846:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

trane.4569:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

SteepledHat.1345:

Penguin, never disappoints with the ad hominem. Legendaries clearly aren’t what they were made out to be. No need to try to attack him rather than his argument.

I’m not sure what ad hominem is. Is it a song by Queen?

it’s a philosophy term. which means you’re trying to make your arguments more valuable by denigrate the other person’s image

Dang. People keep using words that I never learned in kollege.

All joking aside, when a player can’t achieve their goals in game, and then attacks Anet for “lies” because of the player’s failings, that speaks for itself.

Let’s not be condescending here. While I am total agreement that you need to spend lots of in-game time to earn Legendaries (By alot I mean a thousand hours), just because some players can’t spend the time, it doesn’t mean it’s their failing. Some people have obligations in real life that takes precedence over a video game which restricts their playtime. That is not their failing

I’m speaking more along the lines of people just blaming Anet for everything. Sure some people are casual gamers. But just because they want something really bad, and don’t have the time to get it as fast as the hardcores can, it doesn’t give them any right to say “Anet lies” to prove their points.

Players should play the game in their own style, and enjoy every minute of it. In doing that, they need to make realistic goals for themselves. Legendaries weren’t meant to be something that can be gotten quickly. It takes time, a journey if you will.

Geopap.1725:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Geopap.1725:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Geopap.1725:

@Ursan: Type at google “wtb dusk for real money” It says: Almost 6060 matches.Also search a bit black market forums and you will see theres a LOT of movement.That means even ANET doesn’t make (lots) of money out of this. To buy gems as you say and turn them into 800g you need…let me calculate for you 1400e!!! since 50e/4000 gems 4000 gems=~28g you need to buy x28 times the 4000gems pack now let me show you some magic. 28 g per 50e(4000gems) x28=~768 g THE EXACT DUSK price. Ofc Anet makes money out this BUT there are LOTS of other ppl making money out this. Cause the average dusk black market price is 80-100 euros. SO Anet maybe gets gems for 1/100 dusks being sold. Thats my theory. They are doing wrong. Plus since its indeed a luxury item,why isnt it at the gem shop luxury section BurnedToast?

Perhaps Anet should be paying close attention to your account, seeing as how you frequent RMT websites?

Say you purchase from an RMT site, and all of a sudden, you get a Dusk mailed to you. What are the chances that Anet isn’t paying attention to the movement of luxory items? And how quickly will they permaban your account?

Dont think its possible to ban me for that reason. I got a friend who quit the game,has all gifts ready for meteorologicus i think and 150g flat on his acc (he was gathering for the precursor) and I might create it If he gives me the acc and mail it to my account,How is that bannable?Don’t think they can track and ban for any reason except tons of gold.And still i farm with my friend’s warrior cof every day and send almost 14g and 20-30 ectos to me,does that mean they can ban me for that?Lol.

Don’t put it past Anet. None of us knows the extent of their control processes. Remember, they have a team dedicated to finding and terminating people that break rules. Especially those who purchase from RMT companies. But hey, it’s your choice.

For the note,I didnt say I will buy one,I won’t give even a screenshot of a single euro to buy an item for a game which I already paid to play lol. We just discuss about the fact that precursors are being controled thats all.

But Precursors aren’t being controlled, so that just unraveled your whole theory.

trane.4569:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

SteepledHat.1345:

Penguin, never disappoints with the ad hominem. Legendaries clearly aren’t what they were made out to be. No need to try to attack him rather than his argument.

I’m not sure what ad hominem is. Is it a song by Queen?

it’s a philosophy term. which means you’re trying to make your arguments more valuable by denigrate the other person’s image

Dang. People keep using words that I never learned in kollege.

All joking aside, when a player can’t achieve their goals in game, and then attacks Anet for “lies” because of the player’s failings, that speaks for itself.

SteepledHat.1345:

It should be hard. Very very hard. It should have been from the start. But the difficulty should have come for the type of challenges advertised by the developers. From the main gameplay. Not from the side game that is the BLTC.

I will agree with you. I want it to be hard, because I would personally feel that much better when I achieve/win over something that was difficult.

But on the opposite end to that, not everyone is a hardcore gamer. Nor are they skilled gamers. A lot are just casuals who just want to have fun. If you make something too hard, the fun stops. That’s partly why some stay away from PvP, since you aren’t just challenging a computer AI controlled opponent.

The way to do it is either the current way, which is mainly by luck in the Mystic Forge, or to buy it off of someone with that luck (since this requires no skill what-so-ever, thus leveling the playing field). The future way is a long time consuming, multi-part quest that forces you to every inch of the world.

Geopap.1725:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Geopap.1725:

@Ursan: Type at google “wtb dusk for real money” It says: Almost 6060 matches.Also search a bit black market forums and you will see theres a LOT of movement.That means even ANET doesn’t make (lots) of money out of this. To buy gems as you say and turn them into 800g you need…let me calculate for you 1400e!!! since 50e/4000 gems 4000 gems=~28g you need to buy x28 times the 4000gems pack now let me show you some magic. 28 g per 50e(4000gems) x28=~768 g THE EXACT DUSK price. Ofc Anet makes money out this BUT there are LOTS of other ppl making money out this. Cause the average dusk black market price is 80-100 euros. SO Anet maybe gets gems for 1/100 dusks being sold. Thats my theory. They are doing wrong. Plus since its indeed a luxury item,why isnt it at the gem shop luxury section BurnedToast?

Perhaps Anet should be paying close attention to your account, seeing as how you frequent RMT websites?

Say you purchase from an RMT site, and all of a sudden, you get a Dusk mailed to you. What are the chances that Anet isn’t paying attention to the movement of luxory items? And how quickly will they permaban your account?

Dont think its possible to ban me for that reason. I got a friend who quit the game,has all gifts ready for meteorologicus i think and 150g flat on his acc (he was gathering for the precursor) and I might create it If he gives me the acc and mail it to my account,How is that bannable?Don’t think they can track and ban for any reason except tons of gold.And still i farm with my friend’s warrior cof every day and send almost 14g and 20-30 ectos to me,does that mean they can ban me for that?Lol.

Don’t put it past Anet. None of us knows the extent of their control processes. Remember, they have a team dedicated to finding and terminating people that break rules. Especially those who purchase from RMT companies. But hey, it’s your choice.

SteepledHat.1345:

Take it out of the market. Make it a skill challenge. A solo instance that comes with a title. I want to be able to prove I didn’t exploit, flip, or buy my way to my legendary.

Then all you guys that got it early can do the same thing for the title. Prove you can actually play the game.

Not everyone has skill. Do you remember how much rage there was in the forums when the Clocktower came out? While I personally wouldn’t mind something like that, imagine how many people would be upset if they couldn’t get a Precursor because it was “too hard”.

I look forward to the Scavenger Hunt idea. But we warned – if the hunt itself is long, more complaints will roll in.

SteepledHat.1345:

Penguin, never disappoints with the ad hominem. Legendaries clearly aren’t what they were made out to be. No need to try to attack him rather than his argument.

I’m not sure what ad hominem is. Is it a song by Queen?

Geopap.1725:

@Ursan: Type at google “wtb dusk for real money” It says: Almost 6060 matches.Also search a bit black market forums and you will see theres a LOT of movement.That means even ANET doesn’t make (lots) of money out of this. To buy gems as you say and turn them into 800g you need…let me calculate for you 1400e!!! since 50e/4000 gems 4000 gems=~28g you need to buy x28 times the 4000gems pack now let me show you some magic. 28 g per 50e(4000gems) x28=~768 g THE EXACT DUSK price. Ofc Anet makes money out this BUT there are LOTS of other ppl making money out this. Cause the average dusk black market price is 80-100 euros. SO Anet maybe gets gems for 1/100 dusks being sold. Thats my theory. They are doing wrong. Plus since its indeed a luxury item,why isnt it at the gem shop luxury section BurnedToast?

Perhaps Anet should be paying close attention to your account, seeing as how you frequent RMT websites?

Say you purchase from an RMT site, and all of a sudden, you get a Dusk mailed to you. What are the chances that Anet isn’t paying attention to the movement of luxory items? And how quickly will they permaban your account?

Mesket.5728:

Ursan.7846:

Uh?

What in that blog post is a lie? That is pretty much the legendary process currently.

They just didn’t mention that it could be sold/traded. Does that make the entire blog post a lie? (It doesn’t.)

Big Lie 1:
“Legendary Weapons are the end result of an epic adventure in Guild Wars 2. You’ll travel all over, collecting items and amassing materials to build your Legendary Weapon.”

Big Lie 2:
“Legendary Weapons are an impressive meld of art and effects. They show off your accomplishments and allow you to change your character’s footprints, projectiles, and much more. They’re designed to stand out and show everyone that you are a true master of Guild Wars 2.”

The rest its of course a matter of interpretating whats written and the current RNG and while put into practice it falls into another “lie” since the current drop rate makes near impossible to acquire all the goods by yourself. POSSIBLE: Yes,… but its just as possible as becoming millonaire in real life selling 1 cent candies at a rate of 2 per day.

Just because YOU can’t achieve it doesn’t mean everyone else can’t. If you put some effort into your quest for a Legendary, you’ll be sure to get one in time. No need for the jealousy.

Yet another thread on either Speculations or Conspiracies or Manipulation. If this were a drinking game, I’d be under the table already.

Oglaf.1074:

John Smith.4610:

Any official reply to this would shock the precursor market. All I can say is we’re watching.

You need to do more than watch here, Mr. Smith.

You need to intervene.

Why? To make an “Easy Mode” button?