Guild Wars 2

WvW is a dumpster fire.

Anet needs a month (or three) to gather data to determine if their changes are good or not. The people who actually PLAY the game need about a day….

I’ve engaged in may good conversations with the “enemy”, usually in a duel format, and have even gotten some feedback on my build. The benefits out weigh the negatives, in my opinion.

Teon.5168:

While I think that some of the ideas might work in this game……I just don’t think that Anet really has a clear direction yet of where they want to go with wvw, since it was just an afterthought when the game started, and for at least a good 2 years beyond that.

IMHO, WvW was designed originally to server as little more than a lobby to the revenue-generating PvP. That’s why it has always been neglected.

The fact that it turned out to be a significant feature of the game that many dedicated hard-core players enjoy, above all others, is something that Anet still cannot accept. The fact that is serves, in many ways, as a glue that binds many players across multiple guilds together is another thing that Anet still does not get.

They need to find a way to make money off of it. Then they might throw some man-hours at it. In the early days of the game, I gladly spent money on the game to “support” WvW. Needless to say, it’s been awhile since I’ve used money to purchase anything….

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

God I miss those days so much. I remember how many times I’d see a call for help in LA and I’d be like “will be there ASAP! Hold them as best you can!”

As someone who has been doing almost exclusively WvW for the last 2+ years, the times have changed… The times have indeed changed.

---

Argh, the nostalgia is killing me, guys.

Let’s add to this that Anet destroyed LA for what, 16 months? Yes, we used to go into LA and try to recruit people to give WvW a try. I miss those days like you….

It needs to be removed from the ABL’s entirely. Targeting made a twisted sense in the DBL’s because the maps were big and largely empty of players. But the ABL’s promote roaming and havoc game play, so Targeting should be removed from the game.

A Scrapper, using nothing but Gyro’s, has little to no ranged attack ability. This is the reason that Anet (in my opinion) gave us the stealth mechanic. One thing Scrappers are vulnerable to is kiting. Going invisible does allow us to close in on our opponents. They can’t kite what they can’t see.

What makes a Thief truly viable is not Invisibility, it’s the ability to Shadowstep at will.

The so called “rewards” on the track are dragonite ore and empyreal fragments???? Really? Like I don’t have enough of these?

You might want to try Dire. It’s a pure Condi Rune – which works well with P/P, Elixer Gun and Rocket Boots – all good things to have in WvW.

Eros.6801:

I really love Mace and condi build work well in WvW and i really love mace animation but torment sucked in PvE since most mobs just standing around…

Yes. Torment makes no sense for a melee profession. Certainly not in the core maps. I suspect that they gave torment to the Rev primarily because the HoT map is full of NPC that move quite a bit. But Torment only really works when applied at range – such as a Mes does.

TorquedSoul.8097:

It seems that the current push is to appeal to one play style exclusively, and that will cost Anet population.

But this is where you are wrong, and if you had played (or do play) the ABL’s, you would know.

The ABL’s invite MANY different types of WvW participation among many different types of players. You can solo camps, escort Yaks, slap Yaks, tap Garri to keep the WP contested, sit on a Treb in an enemy’s Hills and harass their Water Keep, scout, havoc, refresh/build siege, serve as a diversion to draw enemy from other maps, etc., etc., etc. You can even participate in a good old fashioned Zerg stomps.

None of this was really relevant to the DBL’s. The DBL’s were largely PvE – meaning a guild would go into an enemy DBL, flip some uncontested stuff and leave. The DBL’s promoted one type of game play at the expense of others – much like EoTM.

TorquedSoul.8097:

You are correct. Siege fighting doesn’t show up in the kill metric. Successful defences happened on the dbl also. This is not unique to abl. But when it happened in dbl it was called low skill cowardly gameplay, aka Siege humping.

Is there more siege humping in the abl? Are players able to hide behind walls better?

I don’t know if you are woefully ignorant of WvW or merely trolling — but, except for the recent experiment in server mergers, no one has paid attention to scoring in WvW in years. Your statement above that WvW is “Kills and Captures” is laughable.

For years, I could tell you, within minutes of the reset, not only which server would place first, second and third for the week, but also what the spread in points would be at the end of the week.

The WvW community (of which you don’t appear to be per your historical posts) want good, protracted strategic fights over keeps and towers. As I’ve commented in game and elsewhere before, I’d rather lose the week by 5k points then win by 50k. Most points in WvW are garnered in other than North American Prime Time play. Yes, yes, yes. There are other time zones, but their contribution in points is disproportionate to the level of activity taking place. This has always been the real problem with WvW. If you played it, you’d know.

A spread in points does not mean that one server is that much “better” than another. It means that, on average, there are more people participation in WvW over the course of a week. That’s all.

TorquedSoul.8097:

Soon.5240:

TorquedSoul.8097:

WvW is kills and captures. All things being equal … more man hours will equal more kills and captures regardless of the tactics being used.

Occasionally confusing or distracting your opponent will not significantly reduce the impact of population.

The DBL’s consisted largely of guilds hitting things that had been auto-upgraded, and then leaving WvW. There was little in the way of protracted engagement with the enemy (if you could even find any).

The protracted engagement is somehow leading to fewer kills than before the reintroduction of the alpine maps.

Do you guys do war dances rather than fight now?

So you don’t actually play WvW? There is much more defending going on in the ABL’s. Defending does not necessarily equate with kills.

The enemy might hit the water gate at Garri, be repelled after 30 minutes, and then the walls are repaired by running supply in from the main WP. This is game play that won’t show up on a kill based metric.

TorquedSoul.8097:

WvW is kills and captures. All things being equal … more man hours will equal more kills and captures regardless of the tactics being used.

Occasionally confusing or distracting your opponent will not significantly reduce the impact of population.

The DBL’s consisted largely of guilds hitting things that had been auto-upgraded, and then leaving WvW. There was little in the way of protracted engagement with the enemy (if you could even find any). It was basically PvE.

TorquedSoul.8097:

The linking boosted the kills to 1,263,727 globally by crowding the DBL maps, but the alpine maps introduction has destroyed that boost losing nearly 300K/week kills globally since they were introduced.

I’m not certain that “kills” is the correct metric for measuring the success (or failure) of the ABL’s.

I’ve spent an hour defending Bay from raiders, making taps, trebbing walls from Vale camp, etc., who were acting as nothing more than a diversion for a move on Hills.

This type of “activity” (and others like it) IS a valid measure of the success of the ABL maps, imho. Even though there were not a lot of kill being made, by either team, there was long term engagement and strategy being employed by both sides. The DBL’s were pretty much just Guild objectives and hit-N-quit, in-N-out game play (at least on my tier). Multiple, hour long engagements were non-existent.

Zsymon.8457:

If they wanted the elite lines to be equal to the basic ones, they would have just made more basic ones, and that seems pointless, boring and unimaginative..

Or, if they had it in their mind to center everything around eSports, then reducing the number or diverse builds in the game makes balancing easier.

Shoehorning players into builds is “unimaginative” on the part of Anet….

insanemaniac.2456:

Soon.5240:

BUT, be careful. There are a lot of unscrupulous people putting level 40’ish stuff for sell on the Trading Post for ridiculous amounts of gold. This stuff should cost 2 silver or so at the most. Just for fun, I’m leveling a Warrior and noticed this recently. It’s shameful.

there is nothing unscrupulous going on with that. level 40ish stuff salvages into expensive common mats used to make t7 mats, so those things are expensive. simply find other sources for gear, such as heart vendors near your level.

Dude, I’m talking a Rare, Level 39 axe for 2g 27silver. – and many others. Look it up if you don’t believe me. And it’s not for an unusual skins, either. These items are clearly there to sucker someone new to the game into buying it. I’ve crafted ascended and legendaries, so I know what I’m talking about. There is no reason for these things to be on the TP priced they way they are.

Pistols are commonly Condition builds. So Power/Precision/Ferocity don’t do much to help you. But, at Level 40, it’s hard to go too wrong on anything you do. I’d just advise to keep your Armor and Weapon Levels as close to your actual level as you can. You might use Karma to buy weapons/armor from the Heart’s vendors. And every 5 levels or so, buy some armor on the TP if you have the silver. BUT, be careful. There are a lot of unscrupulous people putting level 40’ish stuff for sell on the Trading Post for ridiculous amounts of gold. This stuff should cost 2 silver or so at the most. Just for fun, I’m leveling a Warrior and noticed this recently. It’s shameful.

As to which Trait Line to unlock next, you might want to go into Firearms for your Pistols. Alchemy will give you some good passive defensive traits, and Inventions will unlock Mecha Legs which gives permanent Swiftness which can be used in lieu of Speedy Kits.

Maybe try Rabid? Level 80 Exotic armor can be purchased fairly cheap on the TP.

It depends.

If you are running P/P and Gyros, then Rapid Regeneration is the best of the three available traits.

All things considered, you might be able to get around 1,000 to 1,200 heal out of detonating a Gyro.

Phineas Poe.3018:

ellesee.8297:

Static Shot + Glue Shot on a weapon would probably take home the trophy for worst weapon in the game. Trying to think of something that’s worse. Maybe Necro focus but at least that removes boons and stacks a lot of vuln.

p/p condi would still be the best damage for raids, but would at least make p/s viable in case break bars aren’t broken quickly enough.

I do use Glue in WvW to slow down someone entering a Keep, or I lob it over my shoulder when I’m running away from a zerg. Much like the Tool Kit Nails.

The point of the proposed change is that — in WvW — it’s would make the P/P and P/S more situationally versatile without requiring a drastic change on Anet’s part. Nor would it make the Engi “OP”. In the course of an evening of WvW, I may only use the Shield a dozen times. I much prefer the Gear Shield with Took Kits. Not only is it better than Shield 5, I can use it twice as much. When I need to run into a heavily contested Tower, I use Gear Shield.

Versatility lies at the heart of the Engi profession. Currently, we lack that. Whether that is by design on the part of Anet to promote PvP or not, it’s getting boring.

joneirikb.7506:

(Ok, I do know what they are, just never used them, because I avoid the crafting system and such like the plague, and sworn I’ll never craft a legendary weapon ever etc. So I would like to see some use for them)

I’ve transmuted my Ascended weapons and armor a few times. Spirit Shards are used to purchase the Anthology of Heroes – necessary for the transmutation. Six pieces of armor and two weapons requires 80 shards.

They can be converted into Spirit Shards if you are already at level 80.

ellesee.8297:

Why would anyone use offhand pistol then?

The same is asked, “Why would anyone use the Shield as it’s currently traited?” And the answer is that no one does use the Shield currently.

The post is to hopefully communicate to Anet that the Engi community would like to see some changes to make the Shield more viable. Currently, it plays little to no role in the game.

I can’t remember the name of the trait (and I’m to lazy to look it up) but with the change in traits (last summer?) one thing that was removed from the Firearms line was the trait that allowed stacking lots of aoe cripple. This synchronized very well with the Rifle. If I recall, with my Zerker Rifle build, I could stack 12s of Cripple with ease on multiple enemy. This help off-set the low mobility/cast time of the Rifle. I suspect that this was removed due to the highly mobile nature of much of the HoT NPC.

I think P/P Condi is very much worth it.

Condi bypasses Defiance Bars, and this helps alot in HoT maps when you are with a group of people who are not aware of how to break it, or do not do so in a well coordinated manner.

One thing to do is not rotate so much. People scoff at Pistol 1 – but maintaining 10 stacks of bleed is fairly easy. EG 1’s fumble is also more valuable than people give credit.

And Burn is in a crazy place right now. With Pistol Blow Torch (I have 13 3/4 sec duration on a 12 sec CD for 15,767 damage) Rocket Kick (9 1/4s : 10,916, 15s CD) and Incendiary Powder (7 1/4s : 5,660, 10s CD!) – without rotation, just sitting in P/P, I can average 4,000 per tick with ease. Plus EG provides good Condi Removal and Fields and Finishers for support.

@santenal

Engi has always been known for the ability to engage at Long, Mid and Short Range. We are not, nor have we ever been, OP at any one of these ranges. Rather, playing Engi requires skill, because you have to use the right weapon/tool at the right time. The constant switching is what turns many players away from playing Engi — while it’s what has always attracted me to it.

I don’t really want a Weapon Swap, for much the same reason that you don’t.

When I first unlocked the Scrapper, I thought, “Wow, these Gyros are cool Kits!” But of course, they are not Kits. The only way we have access to them is to vest fully in the Scrapper Trait line.

With the reduction of 5 to 3 Trait lines, I think many of us have Traits that we select only because they are the lesser of 3 evils. Or, we just play the Engi the way that Anet wants us to play the Engi. And Anet has completely given up even the pretense of caring about Turrets any longer.

Build crafting/theorizing is at an all time low for Engi. Which is another thing that has always attracted me to Engi. Always making tweaks to find the sweet-spot.

Zinkz gets the point of my post.

My point (to try and restate it more clearly) is not that the Hammer is bad. In certain situations it is a wonderful weapon.

What I’m concerned about is the way that Anet is applying Specializations to Engi is causing the Engi to lose the wonderful versatility that the profession has always been noted for.

As I stated above, I have over 4k hours in Engi and another 1,100 in other professions. Other professions bore me in much the same way that Hammer bores me. And I hope that this trend of “dumbing-down” the Engi is not something that Anet will continue with in the future.

santenal.1054:

Hammer engineers are currently the most common kind of engineer in wvw .

And your proof of this statement is what?

Edit: Again, if you are in a high-tier, highly-structured zerg-blog server, then you may be right. But this is not true of mid and lower tier WvW.

And I have 4k + hours on Engi.

Enough with the O.o.

Anet introduced Specializations as a way of reducing the number of builds to simplify balancing in their commitment to eSports.

And no Engi runs hammer in WvW. Except, maybe, in high tier zerg-blobbing. Or those who roam looking for noob PvE’er trying for Dailies.

Forestnator.6298:

What do you mean with 3 trait lines? We actually have 6…

Hmmm,

We used to be able to pick and choose from 5 Trait lines. Now, if we choose a Trait, we are obligated to vest in it completely. So our options are reduced. Anet clearly did this to promote eSports and make balancing simpler by reducing the number of viable builds.

The hammer makes complete sense in sPvP – but nowhere else.

Have you been playing this game long?

Edit: Do you WvW? And if so, do you use a hammer? I can’t remember the last time I saw an Engi in WvW foolish enough to use a hammer.

It’s late — and I’ve had a few to many beers — but what if….

…after midnight, PST, Anet were to shut down all North American Boarder Land Maps except for Eternal Battle Grounds?

Sins.4782:

If this happened we’d still be left with 1 useless offhand in PvP. No one’s going to take OH pistol if it doesn’t provide significant damage pressure. The immob is decent for landing skills and the cover condi are alright, but shield’s defenses are infinitely more useful as they mean you’re not deadweight as soon as you get focused.

Are a lot of people using Shield?

The V.8759:

Greetings,

I am definetly in favor for this change. However I am always very realistic and would like to point out the other sides of the story:

Some mentioned that it would not change the P/P setup but make shield more viable
There is one thing in this arguement missing in my opinion. As it currently is right now, the distinction between pistol-OH and shield is that Pistol is damage oriented with a slight touch of CC, while shield is piurely defensive (partly trough CC) with slightly utility. If we swap these skills, wouldn’t pistol off hand become far less superiour than shield? I mean, we got all the damage we need then on pistol main hand, why bother with off hand while we can get more defense?

As I’ve said, I am in favour of this change, but I would liek to think about this, since this seems to be a downside.

Greetings, Fvux.

You bring up a good point. The Off Hand Pistol (per the change) would need to be a little more attractive or no one would use it.

Edit: However, with the current Shield CD’s, it has very limited use. This would still be true if the swap in skills were made. The Shield has always been a “last resort” weapon (I even have trouble calling it a weapon with a straight face). I often don’t even like to use Shield 4 because it can push enemy off of Fields laid down by others.

Every now and then, I pull out my ascended hammer out of my bank and give it a go. I just don’t get it.

Sure, for one-on-one it’s okay. Great even. This might be true for sPvP as well. (I don’t play that part of GW2.)

But as someone who predominately plays WvW, the lack of a Ranged attack (except for Kits) is a major weakness.

If, in the future, Anet continues to create Specializations, then they need to reconsider giving the Engi a second weapon. I’ve never advocated this in the past, but because we now only have 3 trait lines, the adaptability of the Engi, which was always it’s strength in the past, has been severely crippled.

apharma.3741:

Stick with a zerker build to be honest, you will roll over stuff much easier in the personal story till you get to Orr. At that point I’d really recommend getting a friend to run through it with you so they can cleave stuff better. Orr gets a lot more mobs and open world they die to a full shatter but in story not sure they do.

Sad to say but mesmer sucks compared to all other classes for personal story and I include barebow ranger.

I just didn’t want to spend money/expend materials on crafting Zerker Exotic, since I seem to be doing fine with Rampager. I crafted Rampager mainly because it’s cheap to do so.

What Ascended Armor would you recommend? I mainly WvW.

I’ve got 5k hours in the game (mainly on Engi) and I’ve got boat loads of Ascended trinkets, etc., and enough mats, laurels and gold to buy what I need.

New to Mes here, and I’m still in core game maps. I leveled it to 40 the old fashioned way, and enjoyed it enough to go ahead and use tomes to take it to 80. But I’m progressing with my Personal Story.

How important is Restorative Illusions to self-healing? And should I try to balance condi/power? Or is it one or the other, but not hybrid.

I’m not having any real trouble, but I’d like to go ahead and craft an Exotic armor set so I can get Tailoring to 500 and eventually craft an Ascended Set.

I crafted a Rampager set, and it’s fine. But am I fooling myself about the level of Condi contribution? Everything seems built around Shattering.

Could it be that the “target” dies by other means? And then the Gyro doesn’t know where to go?

If it’s not a terrain based problem (sometimes the Gyro has trouble finding a path) then it should be working for much more than 50% of the time just sitting there.

Try it on some PvE maps or go to the PvP lobby and give it a try.

I like the idea of swapping the skills. The main-hand Pistol would be “damage”, while the off-hand pistol would be CC (Static Shot/Glue) — as the Shield is supposed to be.

Edit: Confusion had it’s day, when it used to do substantial damage. But that is no longer (for Engi at least).

Your playing it right. There is not much more to the HoT maps than you describe.

I also tried Perplexity Runes to see if the Interrupt proc’d by Gyro detonation would trigger Perplexity….. it didn’t.

Grayclay.4579:

Updated the build here: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqancoCtoiFpCubBEqiF2iiO4H+lfMHHjvA8DLxAA-TFSAABYoEEgTAASq/At5voU+V4+DB8AAyRPBpAgYaE-w

The Traveler’s Rune Swiftness is duplicated by the use of Streamlined Kits in the Tools Trait line. I’d consider switching to the Alchemy line, as I noted above. I also don’t like the Streamlined Kits proc’ing outside of combat.

Projection Injection (5 sec CD!) and Transmute (15 sec CD) are very good passive Traits. Plus, Alchemical Tentures offers you three condi removals with your Elixer Gun 4 & 5 skills and the Elixer Gun Tool Belt Skill – plus the Tool Belt is a good stun Break with a slight Regen.

Forestnator.6298:

Soon.5240:

Grayclay.4579:

insanemaniac.2456:

im a fan of traveler runes too. i was just running this and its pretty fun. in your build, drop either inventions or traveler runes. youll get more use out of either alchemy or a runeset not dedicated to move speed, because you dont need both traveler runes and mecha legs.

Right, I realize this, but I’m having a hard time deciding on a different runeset. How do you feel about Nightmare?

Also, is splitting stat types ok ever? Like, tossing in a bit of Vit cuz you want more HP?

I would advise you to get some Travelers and switch to Alchemy in lieu of Inventions. Alchemy’s passive defensive Traits are just too good to pass up.

Otherwise, it’s a great build for WvW and PvE! Can’t say for PvP because I don’t do that.

Here is what I’m currently running:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqancoCFpi9dBuoCEqiF2iSsjmiZE8DLxAgO4H+kH-TFSAABRrhAV1kittenXh7PooegJVCCwJAIgHAApAWUaE-w

Imo there is no reason to run Adaptive Armor over Final Salvo when you run with 4 gyros. Especially with Rapid Regeneration trait too!

I hear you, and I only recently started experimenting with Adaptive Armor in lieu of Final Salvo in WvW. I also have started using the Healing Turret. That’s part of the reason I switched to AA since there is one less Lightening Field.

One fun thing to try is the Superior Rune of the Krait. It’s 6th skill proc’s 8 seconds of Poison, Bleed and Torment. This is fun to do when you go invisible in group of people.

Xyonon.3987:

all in the end ppl want to tank with as little toughness as possible! Better safe than sorry

So I’m learning. My Dire build is like a magnet for Bosses in PvE.

Grayclay.4579:

insanemaniac.2456:

im a fan of traveler runes too. i was just running this and its pretty fun. in your build, drop either inventions or traveler runes. youll get more use out of either alchemy or a runeset not dedicated to move speed, because you dont need both traveler runes and mecha legs.

Right, I realize this, but I’m having a hard time deciding on a different runeset. How do you feel about Nightmare?

Also, is splitting stat types ok ever? Like, tossing in a bit of Vit cuz you want more HP?

I would advise you to get some Travelers and switch to Alchemy in lieu of Inventions. Alchemy’s passive defensive Traits are just too good to pass up.

Otherwise, it’s a great build for WvW and PvE! Can’t say for PvP because I don’t do that.

Here is what I’m currently running:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqancoCFpi9dBuoCEqiF2iSsjmiZE8DLxAgO4H+kH-TFSAABRrhAV1kittenXh7PooegJVCCwJAIgHAApAWUaE-w

Come on Anet. Reduce the CDs already.

archmagus.7249:

Here’s what I use and I’ve been having fun with,making a few changes depending on the situation. I swap out bulwark gyro for elixir S between camps, or toolkit when I need to get away from an incoming zerg. I’ll change out the Knights armor for celestial as I get the mats for it.

As for food, mango or peach pies, or roasted lotus root since those sentries love to stun you. For the utility slot, I have a tin of fruitcake. Same as a sharpening stone, but boosts karma Instead of experience.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASncoCtbhFpCuoCEqilJji+tr7Afc9qgIQsZGvAA-T1xHwAn2fYwFAwv6PzVCC4BA4WHwSlfhGCAsqyqKpA8RoF-w

Just for grins, you might want to also try the super cheap Superior Sigil of Speed.

After a kill, it gives you around 100 per tick of healing for 20 seconds – and it stacks per time. Coupled with Rapid Regeneration, Mango and Backpack Generator you can see around 320 or so per tick of heal (depending on your armor). Great in PvE (Pocket Raptors can give you 2 min of Swiftness), not so much in WvW….

Dawdler.8521:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqancoCtbhFpCuoCEqiF2iiO4H+lH8DLxAIcpuoXD-T1RFABNq+DN7PAwJAAO9ED8AAqS5XfKBJFwdLAA-w

This is the build I currently use for roaming. No, toolkit is not a must (though its good in general and I often swap for it depending on the situation). Dont need alchemy either.

I used to run all gyros, but elixirgun is somewhat better towards perplexity builds and necros in general (purge gyro simply cant keep up).

Very similar to my build. Except I use Traveler Runes for constant 25% Speed and take Alchemy in lieu of Inventions.

Travelers, along with Sigil of Agony and Smoldering (and food) give me a Burn and Bleed duration of 87%. Bleed is much underrated (imho).

With the ABL’s back, there is no reason to broadcast when something is flipped. This only made sense on maps which had little to no roaming, or when no one was playing the maps.

Tyeme.6589:

I see people got on fast to complain. I’m liking the paired servers. WvW matchups were to stale before. Pretty much knew who was going to win week to week. Now everything is uncertain and is going to take effort.

Maybe ques in EBG will force a few people out of their comfort zone and into the BL’s which they have never bothered to learn. Most will probably come here to complain or go to EotM to kill uplevels.

“Now everything is uncertain and is going to take effort.”
Edit: Nobody but me likes new things or making an effort.

“Maybe ques in EBG will force a few people out of their comfort zone…”
Edit: Nobody but me likes to try new things.

“which they have never bothered to learn”
Edit: Nobody but me has the brains to say that the DBL’s are good (or bad).

“Most will probably come here to complain "
Edit: Nobody can objectively dislike the direction that Anet has taken WvW.

I believe your post is what is known as, “Patting yourself on the back.”

HoT is still a “Lather, Rinse, Repeat” XP grind.