Guild Wars 2

Uhmmm just wanna ask:

So why wont you “get good” bandwagon people help the OP get her wings? You are skilled players right? I am sure you can carry her.

@OP

I for one am willing to help you get the wings, only If I am on though give me a msg, Really busy recently so I apologize if you do not see me OL frequently

UmbraNoctis.1907:

It won’t see more use in PvP even with your changes, it would only be a nerf for PvE where it is a decent trait currently.

Why would it be a nerf tho? 2%>1%? I mean to each his own I guess. And please if you can comment on the other traits. Not only the ones you did not like.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Of course a ranger isn’t going to outdamage an ele in PvE, but this isn’t a reason to buff a traitline that is already quite strong in PvP. Boon spamming NM druids doesn’t need more dmg.

And if you are concerned about ranger’s dmg in PvE, why are you suggesting a dmg nerf to BM ranger then?

Axe doesn’t give the pet might without NM (you probably meant sword?), blasts and other aoe buffs prioritize other players over the pet and are limited to certain (not optimal) weapons/builds in a solo setting, signet trait, srlsy? All those options can’t compete with companions might.

The trait is fine as it is, don’t change, what doesn’t need any changes.

I do get where you are coming from, but when do you exactly get this trait vs the other two in PvP? Never right?

I am just suggesting changes so that we also have competition on our traits.

Also, on a mender’s amulet, instinctive reaction will still outdamage that trait even with my changes, so yea.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

StickerHappy.8052:

Refined Toxins

• Another underwhelming trait for a Master spot. Not only does the 90% threshold hard to maintain in pvp, it only does 1 stack of poison too.

The trait is not that bad. You don’t have to maintain 90% health, you (and your pet) just have to be above the threshold from time to time to apply the poison, since it has a ICD anyways. It is basically poison after every pet swap and often after you healed. It is not so much meant to be a dps trait, but rather helps to deal with all the insane healing arround. I use this trait quite often – in power builds.

StickerHappy.8052:

Bountiful Hunter

• Another trait that is so lackluster just because you need heavy investment on boon application in pvp in order to benefit from this trait. 1% is too low for it, 6 boons (which is rather hard to get solo will only give you 6% damage)

Changes

• You and your pet deal more damage per boon that is on you.

• Damage Damage per Boon: 2%

Reasoning: Making it 2% will be more realistic to get without a party.

You want to give ranger an adept trait that is exactly the same as other classes GM traits? Won’t happen.

StickerHappy.8052:

Companion’s Might

• This is a good trait although it pales in comparison with the other two on the trait line.

Changes

• Your pet’s critical hits heal a portion of their health. Critical strikes from your pet’s basic attack cause bleeding.

• Bleeding (6s): 132 Damage
  Healing: 500

Reasoning: We have so much ways of granting our pet might. Leeching attacks will make them more sustainable especially in boss mob fights in PvE for solo content.

It is a decent PvE trait the way it is.
I would keep the might, because i don’t want to be forced into NM all the time to buff my pet. And if the pet dies in PvE it is usually because of huge dmg at once, in which case a bit healing over time won’t help much.

Bountiful Hunter

Are you talking bout these?

• Mainly gotten for the virtues, its not even the boon damage, its just the bonus. Also It’s a MINOR trait. No comparison. You do not have any competition when traiting.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_of_the_Virtuous

• Although a bit different, this is actually a NO brainer, this is in all aspects stronger, especially in PvP. 5 boons on an ele (Which 90% OF THE TIME) easy 15% damage modifier

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Destruction_of_the_Empowered

• Master trait, yes the change I am proposing is stronger, But please let us not delude ourselves here, Ranger vs Warrior Damage Coefficients? It might be even in the long run with my changes. + They also have another option from the latter i mentioned.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empowered

• Yes GM, but cmon do you think a Full Zerk Ranger can Outdamage a Full Zerk Staff Ele? I do not think so. Even without the traits. No contest.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_Power

You are basing everything on paper and traits alone, Those classes that have those traits have SUPERIOR Damage output compared to ranger, naturally they have to make a big investment.

Companion’s Might

You DO NOT HAVE to go NM to buff your pet. This is such an misinterpretation.

Axe AA? Blast Finishers from Firefields? Clarion Bond? Warhorn? Signet trait? Although to your defense, yes NM is the meta right now and ONLY if you want 20-25 might. But those options I mentioned are other ways of buffing your pet.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Check your idea on LoYF. You tilted at the description after presenting your bounce change.

~I like Most Dangerous game change. That is something we really need.
~Invigorating Bond should get 600 range at the utmost minimum. You can’t control the position of your pet. Both 300 and 360 are a laugh.
~Predator’s Instinct would still stay a disappointment with the change you proposed. It needs something more. Cripple doesn’t help in PvE and it poofs away in PvP in no time at all. By presenting “Apply cripple to your enemy and Super Speed to you and your pet for 3 seconds when you hit an enemy below 50%HP; 15 sec ICD” This would catch my attention as a utility trait.

~I’ll add my personal candidate for Zephyr’s Speed. I don’t think you want to strip your pet of all the fury, quickness and might just to get that pitiful 3 second quickness and some random 3 might.
How about moving it to F2 ? Wouldn’t that feel a bazillion times better and more rewarding?

Very good changes bro, Ill edit my post if you do not mind.

I’ll cut to the chase, there is so much underwhelming ranger traits that they fail to see any action. This is also the reason why build diversity is really minuscule.

MARKSMANSHIP

SKIRMISHING

WILDERNESS SURVIVAL

NATURE MAGIC

BEASTMASTERY

Justine.6351:

ya super speed is amazing cause it defies the in-combat cap.
I assume this does aswell, just not to the degree super speed does.

super speed is ~1.5x swiftness speed while in combat.
sotw (if it isn’t capped) is mathematically ~ 1.128x swiftness speed while in combat.

+13% isn’t going to be noticed by most people, even if they play something like max height norn.

Can’t see the difference while in combat, i do have NAtural stride equipped while I tested, but I doubt it makes a difference in combat since the cap is higher than 33%.

So technically sotw+ NS in combat should be close to super speed but I do not feel any change.

Razor.9872:

+ 33% movement speed is the max one can obtain. Any additional speed bonuses after that go to negating speed diminishing effects such as cripple or chilled.

For example:

Swiftness = +33%
SofW = +50%
SotH = +25%
SuperSpeed = +100%
Cripple = -50%
Chill = -66%

Swiftness + SotW = +33%
Swiftness + Cripple = -17%
Swiftness + Cripple + SotH = +8%
SuperSpeed + Swiftness + SotH + Cripple + Chill = +33%

Wow that sucks, a useless effect for the signet, this needs to be changed. Especially movement skills ignore movement impairing conditions too.

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

I have a much better idea.

Everytime you gain might, you transfer a condition to your foes ICD 7secs
You gain might for each illusion shattered

PROS:

• You retain the Hybrid aspect of Illusions
• YAY! No more pigeonholing to Inspiration
• Opens up more builds

Honestly, this makes no sense. What happens when you gain might without a target? Why would I take a trait that will proc when I probably have a single stack of vuln on me and then be down for 7 seconds?

of course it wouldn’t proc without a target hellooo. like generosity fix that only makes it proc if you have a condition on you. Oh its supposed to be 2 conditions. I just put the icd there just because without it then it will prolly be OP The ICD could be way lower.

I would still take it because it’s still SS with an added effect.

Where is the movement speed 50% active proc of this one?

I have never felt it proc.

I have a much better idea.

Everytime you gain might, you transfer a condition to your foes ICD 7secs
You gain might for each illusion shattered

PROS:

• You retain the Hybrid aspect of Illusions
• YAY! No more pigeonholing to Inspiration
• Opens up more builds

Vinetooth. or a CC heavy like an arrowhead.

or that Legendary Wyvern Patriarch acid breath attack!

Ithilwen.1529:

The problem isn’t pip range. That’s a symptom. Because of the matchmaking PvP population is low. Therefore, the matchmaker is scraping to put together matches and going to extreme ranges.

The root cause is the fact that the MATCHMAKING INTENTIONALLY MAKES UNFAIR MATCHES AND PRE ORDAINS THE WINNERS.

As more people realize that they have no hope of winning the wings, population will decrease still further and the problem will intensify. This will cause a further drop in population, a vicious cycle.

I do not believe in intentional. Like you guys I had a 20 match losing streak last season, I consider myself really skilled too. Then I tried to adjust in teamfights, counter comping enemy comps because I can multiclass, I also duo qued till diamond with Shovel Face (the other forum poster who posted to get good), and wa-la i managed to get out of ruby, it wasn’t easy, i had my fair share of oblivious people in pvp.

Despite all of those I mentioned, I still strove to get better at the game and other classes outside of my main.

Teaming up with people is the best solution I can tell you guys. But I think some people do not even wanna do that.

ima kongkittenninja.3052:

StickerHappy.8052:

shion.2084:

Must be more than 15 pip difference, I had div 1 and 2 and 3 in the same match.

If you are in a premade, the matchmaker takes the highest division in your party as a consideration too.

Anyway, but still the point still stands, what is the problem? he won?

I am not talking about the fact that I won. Ignore the score.

Look at the divisions. 3 diamonds, 2 ruby Versus 4 ruby, 1 diamond. They instantly had an advantage that game because they had a duo queue, we did not. My point is, if I solo queue, I shouldn’t be placed against people who are in duo or trio queue, unless I am in a party of 2 or more….

Not sure how else I can say this.

A duo que will not carry 3 other people if they are oblivious to pvp.

Level with me here, the pvp population is really small and there are peak times to this too, you only see an inflated number of people in pvp because of the shinies.

So what you are saying if I wanted to play with a friend, you want all those duo quers to wait long minutes?

This wouldn’t be a problem if the pvp community is big enough to support it, After the disappointment that is season 2, I think separating solo q will be close to impossible because a lot of players left.

4 man and 5 premades is not fine, that I understand. But a duo? I do not think so.

Also i think 3 man premades should only be allowed if your team has a 3 man too.

Ross Biddle.2367:

StickerHappy.8052:

ima kongkittenninja.3052:

matchmaking at its best once again. #WorkingAIntended. . . . . . . Yes we won the game, but I should never be put with people behind or ahead of my divion. Ever.

First put aside your incessant whining.

If you know how MMR works then this shouldn’t be an issue.

• MMR operates to pair you against players on a 15 PIP DIFFERENCE, meaning you will get paired with ruby players who are t4-t5 or 1 pip away from diamond EVEN if you are in diamond.

• DIVISION DOES NOT EQUATE TO SKILL your screenshot proves it, you won with a group of ruby people so I do not get the point of your rant.

• IT IS A CLOSE MATCH if you didn’t get the lord, it would be around 500-420. I say Matchmaking is working as intended in this match, so what’s the whining about?

15 pip difference Stickers? I had this match yesterday while in tier 5 sapphire, yet two emeralds on my team. The maths doesn’t parse out XD

Right before that match I got an infamous 2-man + 3-man vs 5 solo’s XD

I told the other guy that if the pvp population specific to your match making criteria is low, then the matchmaker would have to expands its options hence making the pip difference 20+ pips.

Meh I am not really a critic of premades unless they are 4+-5, you stil had the games very close considering you guys are pugs. Some people just suck whatever the situation is.

2 man premades will not carry 3 other people who are oblivious to pvp.

shion.2084:

StickerHappy.8052:

shion.2084:

Must be more than 15 pip difference, I had div 1 and 2 and 3 in the same match.

If you are in a premade, the matchmaker takes the highest division in your party as a consideration too.

Anyway, but still the point still stands, what is the problem? he won?

The argument was that match making was broken. If it’s intended to enforce a strict 15 pip spread policy amongst all players, then it would be if non-premade teams could span divisions 1 through 3. I was stating nothing regarding his winning or losing, simply offering a validation that if certain criteria were expected to be strictly enforced, then I could verify it was broken and not working as designed. I suspect they don’t enforce 15 pips total range however. Which would then be relevant in arguing that it was not in fact broken as designed.

Winning has nothing to do with whether it is broken or not.

Of course they don’t. If the pvp population is low at that time, the matchmaker will have to expand its criteria. Simple as a that.

It’s a no brainer. OR you want to wait 1 hr ques? I don’t think so.

I’ll use my quote from cynz.

If you are skilled, no matter division you are at, you will still be, DIVISIONS ARE COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT

It could be +100 pips difference, if you suck, you suck, that’s basically it.

You and all the other people here go into too much worrying into detail, I could be an amber and still play as skilled as I can.

The DIVISIONS DO NOT MATTER. you guys should be complaining about pugs vs full 5 man premades not this trivial matter that everyone is making a big deal about.

Cynz.9437:

From what i understood it is 30 pips ranger actually. Take 1 guy, he can face people within -+15 pips thus people in +15 pips range face people in -15 pips range.
I think when i was in second half of diamond i was still facing rubies.

You can put +100 pips here it wouldn’t even matter. If you are skilled, you will always be no matter what division you are.

The leagues design is broken, it should have been " Only People with 3k+ games can enter the leagues"

There should have been an initiation factor to filter out the pve heroes, and oblivious pvp players who think they are more skilled than they actually are.

It’s called leagues after all.

shion.2084:

Must be more than 15 pip difference, I had div 1 and 2 and 3 in the same match.

If you are in a premade, the matchmaker takes the highest division in your party as a consideration too.

Anyway, but still the point still stands, what is the problem? he won?

ima kongkittenninja.3052:

StickerHappy.8052:

ima kongkittenninja.3052:

matchmaking at its best once again. #WorkingAsIntended. . . . . . . Yes we won the game, but I should never be put with people behind or ahead of my division. Ever.

First put aside your incessant whining.

If you know how MMR works then this shouldn’t be an issue.

• MMR operates to pair you against players on a 15 PIP DIFFERENCE, meaning you will get paired with ruby players who are t4-t5 or 1 pip away from diamond EVEN if you are in diamond.

• DIVISION DOES NOT EQUATE TO SKILL your screenshot proves it, you won with a group of ruby people so I do not get the point of your rant.

• IT IS A CLOSE MATCH if you didn’t get the lord, it would be around 500-420. I say Matchmaking is working as intended in this match, so what’s the whining about?

Right, totally balanced to have a team of full pugs (4 ruby, 1 diamond) vs 3 diamonds and 2 rubies (2 diamonds were in a duo queue likely in teamspeak.).

Also, I don’t whine, I don’t come to the forums to whine, I came here to post these screenshots of matches I thought I’d bring to ANets attention.

It is balanced what are you talking about? the divisions do not mean anything, they do not tell how skilled a person is.

The abjured can make new accounts all in ambers and i bet you they will still wax your full diamond team.

It’s whining, you are bringing something completely uneccesary to Anet’s attention, for what?

I’ll tell you this again, Matchmaking operates within a 15 PIP DIFFERENCE so you WILL GET RUBY PLAYERS who are in T5 EVEN YOU ARE IN DIAMOND.

This is such a no brainer.

Again. DIVSIONS DO NOT REPRESENT PLAYER SKILL

I get legendary people on my team last season who play like noobs.

ima kongkittenninja.3052:

matchmaking at its best once again. #WorkingAIntended. . . . . . . Yes we won the game, but I should never be put with people behind or ahead of my divion. Ever.

First put aside your incessant whining.

If you know how MMR works then this shouldn’t be an issue.

• MMR operates to pair you against players on a 15 PIP DIFFERENCE, meaning you will get paired with ruby players who are t4-t5 or 1 pip away from diamond EVEN if you are in diamond.

• DIVISION DOES NOT EQUATE TO SKILL your screenshot proves it, you won with a group of ruby people so I do not get the point of your rant.

• IT IS A CLOSE MATCH if you didn’t get the lord, it would be around 500-420. I say Matchmaking is working as intended in this match, so what’s the whining about?

Correct me if I am wrong, but this is just the standard druid meta that everyone uses right?

or are you the done who made that meta build that’s why you wanted feedback?

JTGuevara.9018:

StickerHappy.8052:

JTGuevara.9018:

Season 1 MM system was the best, imo. The principle of making fair matches (50/50) for players was correct. However,tanking MMR, premades and smurfing became a thing. Why is that? Your tier and division was GUARANTEED. To this, I say bring in division/tier loss and keep the season 1 MM system. There’s too many situations and games where players are in divisions that they’re not supposed to be in, playing and playing and playing to grind out wins. With division loss, good players will fall, great players will rise. Players will be where they need to be. Good players can help newbies advance, giving them the “rub”. I don’t propose this idea because to be harsh, I propose it to make it fair and fun for ALL players involved. In any competitive ladder, you lose positions. Why not here?

Also, SEPARATE THE QUEUES. No 2-man, no 4-man, separate the leagues into SOLO and TEAMS. Premades were and always will be an obvious problem to try and trick the MM system. Merging queues were the worst thing that was done to gw2 pvp.

I don’t know how many seasons left Anet has in mind for pvp, but people are dwindling. The experiments haven’t really paid off. I will say season 3 is slightly better than season 2, though.

You can grind till ruby atm, and people are still complaining. Can you imagine how much people will rage at the matchmaking more with your idea?

THATS the problem! Did you not read? Grinding out divisions means that people can climb divisions that they’re not ready for, THEREBY people raging at matchmaking. The 50/50 matchmaking is simply the best one out of the bunch, both in principle and in practice.

Which is my point, people in the forums think they are skilled than they actually are, so if they can’t get out of emerald or ruby?

You guessed it. QQQQQQQQQ

JTGuevara.9018:

Season 1 MM system was the best, imo. The principle of making fair matches (50/50) for players was correct. However,tanking MMR, premades and smurfing became a thing. Why is that? Your tier and division was GUARANTEED. To this, I say bring in division/tier loss and keep the season 1 MM system. There’s too many situations and games where players are in divisions that they’re not supposed to be in, playing and playing and playing to grind out wins. With division loss, good players will fall, great players will rise. Players will be where they need to be. Good players can help newbies advance, giving them the “rub”. I don’t propose this idea because to be harsh, I propose it to make it fair and fun for ALL players involved. In any competitive ladder, you lose positions. Why not here?

Also, SEPARATE THE QUEUES. No 2-man, no 4-man, separate the leagues into SOLO and TEAMS. Premades were and always will be an obvious problem to try and trick the MM system. Merging queues were the worst thing that was done to gw2 pvp.

I don’t know how many seasons left Anet has in mind for pvp, but people are dwindling. The experiments haven’t really paid off. I will say season 3 is slightly better than season 2, though.

You can grind till ruby atm, and people are still complaining. Can you imagine how much people will rage at the matchmaking more with your idea?

Fay.2357:

Deborah.7248:

“a 50% winrate guarantees progression”

This is false. The key to progressing is purely in how you win, not some magical winrate %.

3 examples:
Person A: W, L, W, L, W, L, W, W, L, L, W, L, etc 50% winrate 0 pip gain
Person B: W, W, W, L, L, L, W, W, W, L, L, L, etc 50% winrate 2 pip gain
Person C: W, W, W, L, L, L, L, W, W, W, L, L, L, L, 43% winrate 1 pip gain

B and C can hit legendary by repeating the pattern thru sheer number of games, while A cannot despite being better than C and equal to B.

I know it’s unrealistic to expect these 3 patterns to repeat with no deviation but the point remains. Basically if you can not abuse the double pip gain one way or another you can not advance with ‘just’ a 50% winrate. If you can win 3 matches in a row and have a winrate above 43% you deserve to be in legendary. The only limiting factor is number of games played to hit the necessary combo of double pip gains to pull it off.

Your own analysis proves my point. The very worst case scenario for any given group of equal wins and losses results in a zero pip gain. Any deviation from that worst case scenario results in positive pip gain.

Yes, there is a non-zero chance that someone could hit that perfect worst case scenario. There’s also a non-zero chance that the atoms composing my body will teleport to the next room due to quantum tunneling effects. Both of these situations have probabilities that are close enough to zero to count them as zero.

This is another issue in mind which kinda deludes your results a bit.

If you remember from season 2, new players were given average mmr. For this season, I am fairly certain that they did not reset the mmr for newer players because everyone started a tier or 2 below from what they were previously in last season.

So this season, that new player with 50 mmr (which in reality is supposed to be 0) you still take into consideration that their skill level is actually 0, not 50 so this kinda gives you false positives/negatives all around this season (I would also put them on that 80%)

Lazze.9870:

xikira.3264:

Anet please look at this page. All the nerfs you guys have done is slowly killing the druid class. Rangers have had the raw end of the deal for so long. Then we actually get a decent support class and its slowly being taken away from because pvpers keep complaining that we are ‘to strong’. At the very least keep the nerfs only in the pvp arena and not punish us in any other part of the game.

Stop.

Just.. Don’t. This skill was never even close to being too strong in PvP. This isn’t a Pve/PvP issue, it’s Anet getting the idea that Rangers got too much condi clear followed by nerfing the wrong skill like they don’t even know their own game. Like they do most of the time.

The only proper “balance suggestion” to Seeds of Life is for Anet to swallow their pride to revert the change. No kitten radius increase, faster cleansing and whatnot. The skill was perfectly fine as it was.

the skill was bad as it was, thats the proper term for it. Anyone using this solely as a condition removal is..

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

Statistically speaking, having bad players in the PvP pool is beneficial to you, if you’re a good player. Since you, as a good player, are on your team, you can only have a maximum of 4 other players that are awful. However, the other team can have 5. Over time, this gives you a statistical advantage over the other team you are truly a good player.

Do I get dumb people on my team? Sure, I got somebody that tried to res my clones repeatedly…but then you also see people this dumb on the other team too. The system isn’t targeting you to get placed with all the stupid people, it doesn’t hold some sort of grudge. On average, the other team will be just as dumb as yours. If you are able to raise the average skill level of your team, you will have a better than average win rate.

Additionally, a good and smart player can have an unbalanced effect on a match. Instead of just moaning about how your team rotates poorly, change how you play so that it complements the way the rest of your team is acting. As the only intelligent member on the team, it’s up to you to effectively analyze the game and determine how you need to play to best win.

On top of all of that, a 50% win rate is enough to progress even through ruby and diamond. 3 losses followed by 3 wins is a net gain of 2 pips. Therefor, even if you’re convinced that the system is forcing you to a 50% winrate, you still are able to make progress through the leagues.

Tl;dr: If you’re actually as good a player as you think you are, you’ll win a majority of the time anyway, regardless of the teams you get. If you’re still continuously losing, maybe you need to start thinking about blaming yourself instead of just the rest of your team.

Sure. Fair points. I completely understand.

These are all true assuming the bad players are not worse than the bad players on the other team. Had this happen to me before haha.

Also what you said is also true atleast until ruby because you cannot lose tiers. Now with ruby, one unlucky streak you have with roll of players you have might be more detrimental for you.

I mean it’s still about luck getting atleast better members on your team relative to the other team.

But again that luck is not getting any better without a decent player population that is big enough to atleast mitigate those horrid pvp experiences.

Also in regards to what you said, it still requires the perfect class for the job, I think even if you are better than your teammates, you will not keep them alive indefinitely if they die most the time in a team fight. you can’t bunker a point all game either.

It’s not about luck, it’s about averages. Over time, you’ll have just as many awful players with you as you will see against you. Over time, it balanced out. In any given match it won’t be perfectly even, but over 100 matches it will be very very close.

As I said, the system doesn’t hold a grudge against you. It’s not purposefully matching you with the worst players every time. Sometimes you’ll get worse ones, sometimes you’ll get better ones, and over time this all comes out to the average. If you, as a good player, are able to shift your team’s average higher, then you’ll win more.

Additionally, 50% winrate will get you through ruby and diamond, as I already said. Winning and losing the exact same amount of games will result in a positive pip amount 100% of the time. If you lose 3 or more, the next win gets you 2 pips instead of 1. If you win 3 or more, each win will give 2 pips. However, it is impossible to lose more than 1 pip at a time. This means that random variation in win and loss streaks will always result in a net gain of pips, allowing you to progress.

So the only downside here is to wait for the system to average out, which as you said might be atleast ~100 games, which is really putting super casual people at a disadvantage?

Of course me myself do not have any problem with the system at all, as you’ve said it does not really purposely punish you.

That was the point of my post, I think its not even the matchmaking system, it just does it job (50% win ratio, matching opponents) but the only thing that makes the result so different than its intention is that the awful/average player population is so big that the Matchmaker gets its variables from this pool hence you get these bad experiences on the forums.

OGDeadHead.8326:

StickerHappy.8052:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Check the values in combat, and see if the values changes then.

It changed but I only get around 3 seconds flat. Tooltip does not show it.

It should be more than 3 right?

Beastly Warden 2 seconds
Expertise training +33% duration increase

2+33% = 2.66 seconds

o crap. haha sorry bout that, I forgot that its 33% now, before it used to be 50%. Alright thanks for clarifying.

Fay.2357:

Statistically speaking, having bad players in the PvP pool is beneficial to you, if you’re a good player. Since you, as a good player, are on your team, you can only have a maximum of 4 other players that are awful. However, the other team can have 5. Over time, this gives you a statistical advantage over the other team you are truly a good player.

Do I get dumb people on my team? Sure, I got somebody that tried to res my clones repeatedly…but then you also see people this dumb on the other team too. The system isn’t targeting you to get placed with all the stupid people, it doesn’t hold some sort of grudge. On average, the other team will be just as dumb as yours. If you are able to raise the average skill level of your team, you will have a better than average win rate.

Additionally, a good and smart player can have an unbalanced effect on a match. Instead of just moaning about how your team rotates poorly, change how you play so that it complements the way the rest of your team is acting. As the only intelligent member on the team, it’s up to you to effectively analyze the game and determine how you need to play to best win.

On top of all of that, a 50% win rate is enough to progress even through ruby and diamond. 3 losses followed by 3 wins is a net gain of 2 pips. Therefor, even if you’re convinced that the system is forcing you to a 50% winrate, you still are able to make progress through the leagues.

Tl;dr: If you’re actually as good a player as you think you are, you’ll win a majority of the time anyway, regardless of the teams you get. If you’re still continuously losing, maybe you need to start thinking about blaming yourself instead of just the rest of your team.

Sure. Fair points. I completely understand.

These are all true assuming the bad players are not worse than the bad players on the other team. Had this happen to me before haha.

Also what you said is also true atleast until ruby because you cannot lose tiers. Now with ruby, one unlucky streak you have with roll of players you have might be more detrimental for you.

I mean it’s still about luck getting atleast better members on your team relative to the other team.

But again that luck is not getting any better without a decent player population that is big enough to atleast mitigate those horrid pvp experiences.

Also in regards to what you said, it still requires the perfect class for the job, I think even if you are better than your teammates, you will not keep them alive indefinitely if they die most the time in a team fight. you can’t bunker a point all game either.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Check the values in combat, and see if the values changes then.

It changed but I only get around 3 seconds flat. Tooltip does not show it.

It should be more than 3 right?

Spartacus.3192:

StickerHappy.8052:

Yea it is terrible, only way around this problem is that you have to play when the season starts, that way you will be on the same pace as the skilled players moving up to the divisions, avoiding that cesspool together. This ensures you get quality players on both sides.

And yet i see other posts saying wait a week or two and the better players will move up divisions and only the bad players remain which you can farm on your win streaks.

So which is it?

If the game is solely revolving around 1v1 then that statement is very much true. But unfortunately it is a team game, no matter how good you are, you WILL not carry 4 people who do not even know what pvp basics are.

I guess other way around it is play in a 5 man premade this assuming that your 5 man isn’t worse than the other team.

Well if luck is on your side, people might get to legendary eventually. and this is an IF.

Legendary or not, the current population still will not make way for greater experiences when they grind.

Belzebu.3912:

I’m pretty sure that the taunt is cast by your pet in those cases, so cond duration won’t affect it.

But Expertise training is pet condi duration though.

Durzlla.6295:

StickerHappy.8052:

trunks.5249:

StickerHappy.8052:

I do not want to sound elitist, so I apologize in advance If I do.

I think the real problem with MM is not just the MMR or whatever, the problem is the pvp population who are skilled (mechanical,map awareness, rotations, pvp basics) only account for atleast ~20% of the people who que.

While the remaining 80% are either average, have no idea what they are doing, terrible mechanically, oblivious the other points except the point they are on, just started pvp, old pve players who jumped on the pvp train for the shinies, or a combination of all those.

So when the ~20% of the pvp population moves up in the higher divisions, the 80% are now on an FFA with random chances of getting the type of players that I mentioned.

My experience till ruby is very good, matched with ESL players or people who know about pvp, now when those players move up to diamond (either by winstreaks or luck or playing a lot of games) Everyone left in lower divisions will be a cesspool.

I had match that was 4v5 since the start in ruby and we still won.

TLDR: I think GW2 PvP population is comprised of majority of bad, average, plain out oblivious players, Hence you get MUCH MORE AWFUL games than decent ones.

not to sound like an kitten but this just isnt true. there are good players that get stuck with bad player and just cant advance you have no idea what it is like looking at the map and watching your team do the stupidest things .do i bump into players i have trouble beating or just cant beat sure but not has often has i do people i do beat. killing and getting caps only to watch your team ether 1.drop like fly’s 2. do not fight on point or just zerg. i apologize if i can not carry a team . i now know personal score means absolutely nothing . i have bumped into many that were in Diamond last season yet stuck in sapphire or ruby

EXACTLY MY POINT. You know why good players get stuck? because the probability of them getting teamed up with BADDIES is Higher because the bad population outnumber the good.

That is the point. My point is also accentuated when the good players (who were lucky, had the time to grind, etc) are in higher divisions.

So who are those in lower divisions with the casual skilled players?

PI-PONG. You guessed it.

I was out of town the whole week this season started due to work, got back to be paired with players that were so unbearably bad I can’t even bring myself to even want to play sPvP anymore this season.

I’ve literally watched my team try to rotate as the enemy showed up to points, leave rangers in downed states in 1v1s, leave a fight when I come to +1 it so we could win, etc.

Yea it is terrible, only way around this problem is that you have to play when the season starts, that way you will be on the same pace as the skilled players moving up to the divisions, avoiding that cesspool together. This ensures you get quality players on both sides.

Fluffball.8307:

Ananeos.4587:

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mesmer_-_PU_Condi_Roamer

I (inexplicably since I don’t know anything about mesmer) came up with the chronomancer version of that build for PvP, after failing (really, really badly) at the more meta builds.

I take healing and elite well, decoy, blink, and portal. Generosity and earth on scepter, generosity and torment on staff, rabid amulet.

It seems to be doing ok, but are there any totally obvious improvements for PvP? Or is this just a bad idea in general? I’m never going to be a good PvP mesmer but it’s one of the more interesting alts for getting the profession achievements done.

Am I wasting time and should learn the meta build, or can this work past sapphire where I was forced to start the season?

Stick to ranger Fluffy. haha. jk

If you are doing this for your achievements, use ranger.

if you are about to win aroun 420 score, switch characters and you get the achievement.

But you do get the dishonor, so do not do it frequently, its easier than forcing to learn a class.

Knighthonor.4061:

whats the keybind for CF?

Took a break and came back and now I cant figure out how to bind this. it was removed.

Its the one with with secondary mechanic. Should be F5 by default if I am not mistaken

Is this trait affected by your condition duration or Expertise training, I tried both the editor and nothing seems to affect it?

Zelulose.8695:

Its funny because I warned the pvp team that all the competitive players would leave this game leaving only the noncompetative players. This of course would result in a valueless ranked system. It seems what I feared is becoming a reality I wonder if there is time left to save this game…

PvP would be a mess but I think it is inevitable. I mean do not get me wrong Gw2 pvp is the most fast paced, complex pvp I have ever played, to expect people to be really good at it is arguable.

The Top(skilled, tourney and non tourney people alike) would only account for so small of the gw2 population. We have the same teams for a very long time. So Whatever you do to the matchmaking, without a skilled/decent population to hold its foundation, ranked will always be a mess, yes it will start out great, but as soon as the decent/skilled players move up to the divisions, any lower divisions will be a living nightmare for most people

TLDR: NO SUFFICIENT SKILLED PLAYER POOL = ENDLESS CESSPOOL OF DECENT MIXED WITH OBLIVIOUS PLAYERS IN LOWER DIVISIONS = RANKED WILL ALWAYS SUCK = BAD EXPERIENCE FOR THE MAJORITY

sanctuary.1068:

StickerHappy.8052:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Where are u getting those numbers OP?

From my wording I thought you would’ve picked up I was estimating. This is based on my pvp experience with doing the leagues.

I mean look at it this way:

Perspective 1:

AGs, ESLS, Pro league are always the same people, Abjured is still the number one team because they are the only team that stuck together for a very long time on top their pvp prowess.

So wouldn’t that tell you how small the skilled/top/pro scene we have?

Perspective 2:

Do you see the people who complain about matchmaking during season 1 and 2 are the SAME people who are complaining about it now? How many people are still stuck at amber and emerald?

Why are they stuck? Incompetent teammates, players who might be worse than them, pug vs premade. But again to the point, most decent players will be ruby at least by now.

So who are the people at amber – sapphire?

Ive complained in all seasons so far and more people should speak up tbh. Ive complained about the same crap every season and thats been lack of soloq. Ive never been stuck anywhere, but it aggrivates me that after anet changed the premade system, they ruin so many games for others now. Let me explain how…So im Ruby, i have more wins than losses atm. A ruby somewhere in the gw2 world thinks its funny to team up with an amber, emerald and a sapphire. 4man premade. So what does this mean? Those 3 low divisions is seen as rubys in the mm’s eyes. Then a poor kitten, aka me, get throwed into that team and the mm dont think thats wrong at all since it thinks theyre all rubys when 3 of them are dead weight. Some of us are more unlucky than others to get these matchups. Thats why i get blowout matches everytime i get those kinds of teams because they just arent on ruby level. When i get people from the same division as i am, im happy even if i lose because it was a fair match and the results show that it was a fair match also aka close matches. When i get those premade scrubs, because Anet completely ruined premade rules in the mm, it ruins matches for many players. When you get such low quality teammembers vs OLD legendary players, theres little you can do to save your team who is a old players from amber, emerald, sapphire. They have litterally zero chance to win any 1vs1 or any teamfight vs a FULL old legendary team. So when i get dragged back by this flawed system because Anet cant implement a frikkin soloq, i get srsly annoyed. That doesnt mean im stuck and i never was, but i want fair matches and not lose a win streak or get kept by 50% winrate just because i get these matchups instead of a fair close match. They who dont get thrown into these premades are lucky, sadly im not one of the lucky ones since 30-40% of my matches are exactly this.

We have opposite experiences, I am almost close to diamond now solely solo queing. The reason for losses are blatantly obvious, people kept going far to die, no map awareness, refusing to cooperate, and dies in 2 seconds before help can arrive, leaves a point to get decap because they are guarding the point outside of it, fighting off point, etc.

You see these are the mistakes that are super easy to avoid if you know how pvp works. People are in ruby playing like ambers. I tell you, these are the same people who do this very single kitten time.

EX:

I had a match yesterday when the enemy ranger decided to go for lord 2 mins into the game.

They lost that match horribly. This is in ruby.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

StickerHappy.8052:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Where are u getting those numbers OP?

From my wording I thought you would’ve picked up I was estimating. This is based on my pvp experience with doing the leagues.

I mean look at it this way:

Perspective 1:

AGs, ESLS, Pro league are always the same people, Abjured is still the number one team because they are the only team that stuck together for a very long time on top their pvp prowess.

So wouldn’t that tell you how small the skilled/top/pro scene we have?

Perspective 2:

Do you see the people who complain about matchmaking during season 1 and 2 are the SAME people who are complaining about it now? How many people are still stuck at amber and emerald?

Why are they stuck? Incompetent teammates, players who might be worse than them, pug vs premade. But again to the point, most decent players will be ruby at least by now.

So who are the people at amber – sapphire?

Still seems not quite reliable really.

Pro=/=all skilled players in a game. Even with a small pro league scene. Between newbie and Pro there is quite a long stretch making enough place for difference in tiers of players. Heck a pro leaguers can still kitten on high skilled/decent players. case in point, the matchamking is broken thread by ima kongkittenninja, 3052 who got kitten d 631-31 or some score.

I honestly do not know how many are stuck at amber-emerald you neither. But even people from ruby and up are complaining about matchmaking. The argument them bieng matched with diamonds or premades. Heck even those who were started in saphire division from season 2 were complaining at the start of last week. It mean that those in season 2 which was widely regarded as the MMR hell had a high enough division then to be placed in saphire. Complaining doesn’t just revolve around people in lower divisions.

And even if 80 percent is average/bad/new. One shoult atleast try to account for the individual percentages within that 80 percent to make a statement. Like u can’t do much with this and use it as an argument for what might be wrong with matchmaking.

We have to litle to go on. We don’t know if maby 30 percent is average. Or maby 50 percent is new? We don’t know that really.

I think i get your intent now. And it’s not bad by any means. I just wish we had more numbers.

There is one thing i also noticed. Maby u have done so as well. It seems that people that complain about lose streaks and show it, have surprisingly close matches and matches lost without a more then 150 point difference. It wouldn’t surprise me that an big factor is in the amount of mistakes one makes.

Since A net has no lessend the difference in team mmr. U could argue that among that 80 percent assuming this is a matchup in which one team has an higher mmr, that the one with higher mmr simply makes fewer mistakes. And that would explain those not all to terrible lose streaks. It’s more akin to a sick joke, your best wasn’t good enough.

but that’s just my take on it. Wonder what your toughts are.

Hmm of course you are correct but those numbers are very hard to get. Yes people lose close matches, its not even about the mistakes, you see MM does not account for team comp, class stacking, who knows they were just unfavored with the comps, which is also the reason why MM is kitten, you cannot expect everyone to multi class, or maybe they could but they still suck at it.

So with that, MMR or not, team comps account for almost everything, you cannot run 3 thieves against a premade who are coordinated. This is also a big factor for winning matches, you just cannot run 3 druids and have 0 dps on your team.

I have been playing pvp since launch, all the good players since launch are the same ones now, so roughly ~20% might be accurate believe it or not. There is no new skilled team composed of unknowns that made it to the top.

Architekt.2047:

I’ve just started practicing around with a ranger in unranked pvp (will be here a while) and have a question regarding the usage of “allie’s aid”. Say there’s an ally who’s downed, I don’t know, 1000 units away from me. How do I make this skill work? Do I just target him and then my pet stops whatever he’s doing and teleports to the ally? Do I have to press the revive key (and furthermore will it even show up at that range?) And can I let my pet do the work while I keep attacking and moving about? I haven’t really seen it used in pvp, I guess because my ally’s have died close enough to me that I help revive them myself. Anyway an explanation of how to “use it” from a neophyte’s perspective would be helpful. Thanks!

Allies aid and Search and Rescue (The shout) are different.

They only share the same name.

Allies Aid needs you to manually (Pressing F) res a downed a body, doing so will let you res the body with your pet hence it will be doubled in speed.

Search and Rescue (The shout) ports the downed to you, and resses the body with your pet.

Trait is no port, shout is port.

Threat.7450:

The real problem with MM is the same as it has always been – people are simply not as good as they think they are.

No one wants to admit that they are a Ruby level player. Within the 80% of average players that the OP mentions, about half think they are pro. They freak out and get furious when they lose matches and blame teammates.

Newsflash: if you are on a 20 game losing streak – it’s your fault. 100% your fault. Stop doing what you did for the last 20 matches and do something different. Play a different class, attack a different point, employ a different strategy… but please do something different.

Newsflash: if you are on a 20 game losing streak – you are not “legendary”. Stop assuming you belong there. I know for a fact that I do not, nor would I whine about a MM system as being the reason I lose matches.

I wish Anet would use some tough love and let the whiners know that not everyone is elite.

Although I get your point,

PVP is a TEAM GAME

if you get a 20 match losing streak, you might be at fault, but not entirely too, you see, you have to play as a TEAM. You cannot just blame an individual for it.

alain.1659:

Well op, you are an elitist. But I think you have the right to be so.

I am not a very good pvp player. Hell, I am not even above average in most professions except 2 of them. And even with them I can never be a pro pvp player, which I have no desire to be. That is why when I want to play pvp, I usually go unranked if I am not playing with my mains. But most of the people do not do that.

This game needs seperate ranking for characters a player has. You might be the perfect thief, but you might suck at warrior. This will also discourage the casual players like me to follow spvp, where we will be bored too quickly to advance properly, but be able to play with different characters in low lvls.

There are serious issues in this game, powercreep, balance, bugs etc. But those are not what you are talking about so I will not mention them in length. I know what I am saying will destroy the pvp population but I honestly do not like pvp so can not produce something better than this.

Have a nice night/day

I completely understand your point. The problem is with the design of Achievments you need to do in leagues.

You have to win 10 ranked games in 3 professions in Part IV, which only forces players to play a class that they have no idea or mastery with it.

Making again the pvp experience stupid.

Substance E.4852:

StickerHappy.8052:

Substance E.4852:

That’s what happens when you have a PvE reward in PvP.

Anyone could have seen this coming from a mile away when The Ascension was announced.

Actually it is a PVP reward.

It may be a PvP reward in the sense that you have to complete pvp to get it but it’s main appeals of the legendary stat swapping and legendary status are essentially PvE elements.

In PvP, being able to play well comes far before having expensive gear or half a dozen auras.

PvE’ers didn’t flood the mode when they added new HoT themed rank finishers nor would they if Anet added more pvp exclusive finishers in the future.

The same exact effect occurred in every WvW tournament. PvE’ers flooded the mode to get the achievements and the rewards.

TLDR: Put something exclusive in your mode that PvE’ers will want and they will flood the mode. A vast majority of the people who PvE wouldn’t give 2 kittens about Leagues if the wings and nameplate icons didn’t exist.

That’s why the Leagues itself should be GATED

Make it:

Entry to participate in the leagues will require atleast 2,000 ranked pvp games

Problem solved.

But doing this will only desaturate the 80% of the pvp population even more, resulting in longer que times.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Where are u getting those numbers OP?

From my wording I thought you would’ve picked up I was estimating. This is based on my pvp experience with doing the leagues.

I mean look at it this way:

Perspective 1:

AGs, ESLS, Pro league are always the same people, Abjured is still the number one team because they are the only team that stuck together for a very long time on top their pvp prowess.

So wouldn’t that tell you how small the skilled/top/pro scene we have?

Perspective 2:

Do you see the people who complain about matchmaking during season 1 and 2 are the SAME people who are complaining about it now? How many people are still stuck at amber and emerald?

Why are they stuck? Incompetent teammates, players who might be worse than them, pug vs premade. But again to the point, most decent players will be ruby at least by now.

So who are the people at amber – sapphire?

Fluffball.8307:

I think this is a problem with the foundations of GW2. Anyone can be reasonably effective in PvP, just point your reaper in the right direction and you’ll probably kill something. But to become more than just effective, to be good, you have to understand a ludicrous amount of information. There are how many traits and utilities and weapon skills and profession mechanics? Thousands? And everything is all going off at the same time if a blinding flash of graphics. And you need to understand more than the effects, but when people are likely to use abilities and why. (“He just swapped weapons and used a profession mechanic, he must have just used his condi clear, could I can put a condi bomb on him? But the ele next to him has stabilty and a group condi cleanse ready.”)

To make sense of PvP is sort of insane. So most people are just mildly effective and don’t really understand everything that is going on.

I completely agree. We can also add that getting better in fighting against other classes may need you to actually to play the class to understand their mechanics.

The leagues are not helping that at all on top a “elusive MMR system” that we have no idea how it accurately works.

The leagues will never work unless you get a decent player base that is big enough to make experience enjoyable for most.

As it stands now, the people who will reach legendary will the only ones who will get positive experiences and the others remain in the cesspool.

Do not get me wrong, Legendary experience will still have those baddies that for some reason managed to escape from drowning in that cesspool.

Ghede.9145:

StickerHappy.8052:

Ghede.9145:

i dont think i have enough laurels for 250 of all those t6 mats needed ^^

Get laurels, sell the mats, then buy what you need, since you get random mats there. Also you gain gold in winning matches, sell mats when you salvage the chests that you get. Easy. Sell Exotics.

Not to mention you also get t6 Mats randomly from the pvp chests you get.

Yeah and that’s all “PVE stuff” ;-))

q.e.d.

The point is you get them in pvp, noone is forcing you to pve for it.

PS: Pls stop derailing the thread.

And reply to the original intent.

Ghede.9145:

i dont think i have enough laurels for 250 of all those t6 mats needed ^^

Get laurels, sell the mats, then buy what you need, since you get random mats there. Also you gain gold in winning matches, sell mats when you salvage the chests that you get. Easy. Sell Exotics.

Not to mention you also get t6 Mats randomly from the pvp chests you get.

Ghede.9145:

StickerHappy.8052:

Substance E.4852:

That’s what happens when you have a PvE reward in PvP.

Anyone could have seen this coming from a mile away when The Ascension was announced.

Actually it is a PVP reward.

The problem is there is no gate for it so that it should be a pvp exclusive option.

Like map completion in PvE. There should have been a gate of some sort so we could filter people who has no idea of how pvp works.

As a PVPer (only PVP) i have 300g , no t6 mats … and so i have everything for those super wings but cant afford the crafting mats or be assed into farming those or use rl money

imho it is therefor a PVE reward partially gained by PVPing….

All is Vanity

The mats can be gained by laurels, no PvEing involved.

All you have to do is login.

Agyaggalamb.4796:

May I ask what you mean by “grinding to the higher divisions”? As it occurs to me, if you have 15 losses and 15 wins you’ll basically still be in the same spot, due to losing pips and tiers, or just pips.

I can imagine getting an extremely lucky 3 win streak in Emerald occasionally, so with enough games, probability will be on your side to get out of Emerald, but achieving anything above a winning streak of 3 has like astronomically low probability as I see it.

Especially if the matchmaking is really tailored for a 50% win-lose ratio.

What I mean by grinding is playing a lot of games in order to advance, does not matter if you lose a lot, it just means you have higher chances of advancing.

A lot of people do not have that luxury of time to play a large number of games.

Second point is, everything is a matter of playing a lot especially until ruby because you do not lose tiers.

Justine.6351:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Justine.6351:

Dragon Hunter-traps will kill 5 people if you place them right, tho. Compare it to Ice Trap.

Relevant as usual.

Still better than being toxic.

If a trap is powerful and deadly – it shouldn’t function with stealth.
Pure utility traps those of a ranger have no reason to be gated with pitiful tickling damage that prevents stealth.

How about venting your personal problems elsewhere than in forums?

Ranger traps can kill bad players just as guardian traps can kill bad players.

No. Even with a half a decent brain will see that DH traps are highly superior to ranger Traps.

Daze, Boons, Stun Breakers, Insta Cast Traps. High Damage traps?

Any of those on rangers?

NO.

Substance E.4852:

That’s what happens when you have a PvE reward in PvP.

Anyone could have seen this coming from a mile away when The Ascension was announced.

Actually it is a PVP reward.

The problem is there is no gate for it so that it should be a pvp exclusive option.

Like map completion in PvE. There should have been a gate of some sort so we could filter people who has no idea of how pvp works.