Guild Wars 2

edit: this would be a WvW bunker build then. Didn’t see that part. Best non stealth bunker is evade tanking with tons of endo & init regen and d/d/d/d DB spam imo.
—
I play what I consider a bunker thief. So far I haven’t run into a 1v1 even d/d ele and guards that I have to run from they just take time. Haven’t run into many condition swap necros though.

P/D & DD
10 /0/30 /30/0
Mug, Regen on Stealth, Con remove on Stealth, Healing while Stealthed, 50% fall dmg, Pain response, Hard to catch.
Shadowstep, SR and 3rd is changed between Sig of Shadows, Scorp Wire or Haste depending on the situation. Move speed for roaming, swap to wire when 1 on 1 or 1 on 2 and haste if it’s 1vN (for stomps).

I use p/v/t armor & back and p/v/condmg weapons/rings/accessories/ammy

Ends up with ~21K health and ~2500 armor and tough as nails. Don’t even have to shadowstep out of a glass Theif’s burst if you don’t feel like it and can still win easily. Most time you don’t have a choice with Hard to catch though.

quercus.9261:

You experienced MMO thief players gotta know that this gravy train will be coming to an end eventually.

Actually Anet is balancing their PvP for high level tPvP in which Thieves are average at best. Unfortunately for bads that means they will keep getting stomped in WvW.

But that 1 skill applies a bleed every time it hits. It’s a really really awesome skill and meant for bleed builds. Sneak attack is amazing as well.

It sucks that this Mesmer has no access to BF, blink, decoy or even dodge all which you can do blinded and regardless of stealth. Auto attack removes blind btw.

quercus.9261:

lol whatever thief dudes. I just had to respec back to bunker before I rage-quit. Yes I was running a full glass/shatter spec to try some stuff out. It didn’t work out (see above). The only ones that can run glass are thieves currently. I was all L80 exotics/zerker gear.

FYI a tactical strike thief got me just after the last screen but I didn’t have the energy at that point to get a screen.

FYI those logs are real.. didn’t see that the Thief was from a diff server.. probably because he didn’t render….

Full zerk shatter Mesmers should still be able to kill full zerk thieves. Plenty of stun breaks and immunity. I see you use staff and assume your swap must be sword/x. Try sword/focus it’s better than pistol for WvW imo and hard counters Shadow Refuge.

brandon.6735:

These are the kinda of discussion we need. Tired of hearing that both side say that class is OP.

It’s interesting isn’t it. All the terrible players that post QQ and think the Thief (or whatever) is OP every day but then there are threads like this:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Counters-against-thieves/first#post

When people go to their own profession’s forums and ask for help they get it. All the people responding know counters and they would never see a QQ thread in this forum nor probably respond to one in general or WvW forums just whining about Thief OPness. All those threads do is attract more whiny bad players.

No stunbreak or defensive cool-downs eh? Or just not fast enough? Sorry bro…

When a Thief approaches 900 units best be ready to react or dirtnap with the rest of the zerglings.

Marduh.4603:

Stiv.1820:

Dagger would give you chaos armor with Heartseeker. Doesn’t sword just suffer from a lack of finishers in general?

Chaos armor(3 sec) vs tool belt
Seriously?
On the other side there is no skill to engineer Eternal field. Therefore, this skill is not the place.

Just saying it’s an option. I use pistol main hand so the confusion stacking in WvW is better than anything.

Marduh.4603:

Stiv.1820:

Noooo don’t change throw gunk it’s amazing in WvW. Probably not as good in sPvP due to the confusion nerf. It’s an Ethereal field so you can throw it un-targeted in stealth so it doesn’t hit the engie and if you use a pistol stand in it an unload 7+ stacks of confuse on them. They kill themselves spamming grenades at you. Even if you hit them by accident you can get 4+ stacks on them with just auto attacks.

At that time and again that if you do not have a gun in your main hand, then steal useless, does not help, even with the immobilization of the sword. A bomb will be useful to all builds.

Dagger would give you chaos armor with Heartseeker. Doesn’t sword just suffer from a lack of finishers in general?

There are changers coming according to the Reddit AMA yesterday:
——
by ArenaNetTeamin Guildwars2
[–]ArenaNetTeam[S] 19 points 1 day ago
hi nn776,
These are all cool ideas for WvW and you can expect to see some significant content dropping in this area of the game in the near future.
I would like to be more precise but can’t be but rest assured we are working a lot on not just new content for this area of the game but also progression, reward and beacon mechanics.
Chris
—-

This should at the very least be an option you can turn in in the settings. “Show name in WvW”.

I still don’t see the down side in making it optional for everyone. When reporting worked, I got in lots of different conversations. Complements, build questions and of course QQ and I loved all of it.

I can understand why some players want to be protected by anonymity. I just don’t get why they take it a step further and say it shouldn’t even be an option for those who want to put their name out there.

No. Fight for it if you want the puzzle. Breaking a JP siege is one of the most satisfying things in this game. If you don’t want to do it, just don’t go there. You can always run with all the zerglings who use the puzzle as a scapegoat for their servers bad performance in the pointless server score numbers game. At least holding the JP has tangible benefits for your server.

Marduh.4603:

Engineer – Throw Gunk – totally useless and break stealth
Thieves simply can not use a professional skill against the engineers. You need to replace this useless Junk on Big Ol ’Bomb.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Big_Ol%27_Bomb

Noooo don’t change throw gunk it’s amazing in WvW. Probably not as good in sPvP due to the confusion nerf. It’s an Ethereal field so you can throw it un-targeted in stealth so it doesn’t hit the engie and if you use a pistol stand in it an unload 7+ stacks of confuse on them. They kill themselves spamming grenades at you. Even if you hit them by accident you can get 4+ stacks on them with just auto attacks.

I think we can just agree this is a L2P issue for the OP. It seems like he plays an Ele which has a better stomp and downed state in Mist form. He probably doesn’t like the fact that Thief’s downed #2 is one of the only ones that can prevent a mist form stomp ignoring he gets free first time stomps on guards, rangers, necros, war most of which can interrupt a Thief’s stealth stomp.

Jahva.1895:

If you’re a non-thief in here complaining about Stealth, may I direct you over to this thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/It-s-great-being-a-Guardian-isn-t-it-guys

I think you mean this one?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Counters-against-thieves

Kurow.6973:

nldixon.8514:

A dagger/dagger build with the right traits will pretty much never run out of initiative if you know what you’re doing.

…is that so…

Do go on…tell us more…in detail!

He’s talking about the DB spam build. D/D with D/D on swap, init on swap, init on healing, roll for init etc etc. You can spam a lot of DB but you still run out of init and that is all that build does.. DB and evade tank.

varonecl.4265:

Stiv.1820;

Here are some point to consider;

Was Anets design philosophy to show you have mastered PvP or JPs, because you can get BoHs doing both? JPs are in both the PvP environment and the PvE environment. PvP has to happen in a special locale outside of the game world.

Was Anets design philosophy about grinding, because that is contrary to their statements, despite the hunt for most legendaries being about the grind. Something they have stated they want to address for dungeons as well.

PvP should be for PvP. PvE should be for PvE. No one pays a subscription fee so we cant complain pass utilizing the game for it story content, but it is ok to discuss. This is how change is brought about, depends on where the community stands.

Is there a JP that gives badges outside of WvW? I honestly think Anet just wanted them to take part in WvW. Making the max number of chars and running just the JP on each one works but I bet is not what they were hoping for. I doubt they care about it and either do I but this behavior seems to be what causes the most complaints when they could just spend some time playing WvW instead. The same way I’d have to max crafting and do world complete if I wanted to get one.

I can win battles with these builds as a P/D tanky condition build but that just means I force them to run. I will never down nor catch a well played one and they won’t down me. They are by far the fastest build in the game. I can’t imagine a burst thief standing a chance at all.

varonecl.4265:

Stiv.1820:

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

Stiv.1820:

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

The JP should be removed. Sure, you can get siege from it, but how many carebears go in there and never appear in WvW again? I farm and buy my own siege. Most people I know do that.

In times of the Queue it is annoying to see people asking for mesmers in the jp. It handicaps the people actually WvWing if there are lots of people in the jp.

The JP is part of WvW, maybe they should add a capture point at the chest location that ticks the magical pointless point total up to make you guys happy?

It’s a place to find a different kind of PvP. Yea there are carebears there desperately trying to avoid PvP and they are the most fun to kill. On average though, the people that go there for PvP are at a much higher skill level than any other area of WvW. It’s fun, small scale, there is no retreat and there is a small reward at the end if you choose to go for it.

The idea that your side is loosing because 15 people are at the JP is just an excuse just like culling or stacking or Mesmer portals. Every side has to deal with it.

They should just introduce an openworld pvp-enabled map with jumping puzzles. There is certainly enough space on the map for it. But throwing PVE-related fodder into organized mass pvp is silly.

Anet wants you to participate in WvW to earn your legendary. The idea is you have “mastered” every aspect of the game. I will never get a legendary. Why? Mainly due to map completion and crafting. My highest crafting skill is 75. I don’t care how easy it is, I hate crafting. I will never do 100% map complete. I hate that too. I don’t complain about it because I understand it’s part of their design I just accept it and do what I like which is WvW. If I do decide to go for a legendary at some point, I do it knowing I will have to participate in parts of the game I find distasteful. Same goes for all of us.

Anet also stated they wanted GW2 to be less about grinding like other MMOs which is why they were considering revamps to the dungeon token system, but i Guess you are in their development team and cant tell a mistake from a design flaw?

I think it’s pretty obvious that legendaries at the very least are suppose to be a very large time sink. What defines a grind is subjective but I don’t see how obtaining a legendary could not be considered a grind unless they become easily accessible and then everyone will have them making them not so special.

Please with the unlimited init stuff… those builds don’t have “unlimited” inti and have no direct damage they can only go condition or have a gimmic like d/p perma stealth and no damage. Conditions can be countered and if you die to a d/p who is speced for init regen and not power/crit then that’s just plan sad.

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

Stiv.1820:

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

Stiv.1820:

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

Stiv.1820:

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

The JP should be removed. Sure, you can get siege from it, but how many carebears go in there and never appear in WvW again? I farm and buy my own siege. Most people I know do that.

In times of the Queue it is annoying to see people asking for mesmers in the jp. It handicaps the people actually WvWing if there are lots of people in the jp.

The JP is part of WvW, maybe they should add a capture point at the chest location that ticks the magical pointless point total up to make you guys happy?

It’s a place to find a different kind of PvP. Yea there are carebears there desperately trying to avoid PvP and they are the most fun to kill. On average though, the people that go there for PvP are at a much higher skill level than any other area of WvW. It’s fun, small scale, there is no retreat and there is a small reward at the end if you choose to go for it.

The idea that your side is loosing because 15 people are at the JP is just an excuse just like culling or stacking or Mesmer portals. Every side has to deal with it.

They should just introduce an openworld pvp-enabled map with jumping puzzles. There is certainly enough space on the map for it. But throwing PVE-related fodder into organized mass pvp is silly.

Anet wants you to participate in WvW to earn your legendary. The idea is you have “mastered” every aspect of the game. I will never get a legendary. Why? Mainly due to map completion and crafting. My highest crafting skill is 75. I don’t care how easy it is, I hate crafting. I will never do 100% map complete. I hate that too. I don’t complain about it because I understand it’s part of their design I just accept it and do what I like which is WvW. If I do decide to go for a legendary at some point, I do it knowing I will have to participate in parts of the game I find distasteful. Same goes for all of us.

You do realize that there are lot of us who reject the legendary path because LOL legendary weapons are glorified exotics prettied up?

Just because Anet wants players to do x, doesn’t mean x is worth doing for players. And Anet should rethink things like jumping puzzles in WvW.

Carebear things belong in Carebear land.

If WvW took place in the openworld it wouldn’t last because PVE people would complain.

I guess I’m confused so you don’t care about them for “farming mats” for your legendary then? If you don’t like PvP why are you in WvW at all?

If you are just saying it doesn’t belong in WvW then I simply disagree. It attracts smaller scale PvP in an open world environment. It’s a lot of fun for those that participate in it. It is completely optional after all.

IMO there should just be no queue to enter any BG. Let all come but then people would complain about imbalance. In the end the JP won’t be camped unless there are people to kill so it evens out for the servers and has hardly any effect on the overall WvW points for one server vs another if at all.

You are generally confused altogether.

And, no, it does not belong in WvW. There’s no objective in the JP for the “team”. It takes up space for players who are trying to help the team on some servers. People who have 0 interest in WvW go to the JP and never help the team. Even the Grub fiends on my server are more productive.

And LOL @ no queue… the game would not be playable since this little thing we call Lag still exists…

It was some other guy complaining about farming mats.

Anyway, many games have done no queue for open world PvP and been fine. DAOC and Darkfall off the top of my head. Being outnumbered at times is part of open world PvP.

You think people are wasting space in the JP well I think half of every zerg is a waist of space, half of the time they are fighting nothing but undefended keeps/camps. There are different play-styles in WvW and JP PvP is one of them, sorry you don’t like it.

Please stop this QQ the JP especially the EB one is the best PvP in this game. I’d rather break a JP siege camp than take a tower that will flip in 20 mins.

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

Stiv.1820:

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

Stiv.1820:

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

The JP should be removed. Sure, you can get siege from it, but how many carebears go in there and never appear in WvW again? I farm and buy my own siege. Most people I know do that.

In times of the Queue it is annoying to see people asking for mesmers in the jp. It handicaps the people actually WvWing if there are lots of people in the jp.

The JP is part of WvW, maybe they should add a capture point at the chest location that ticks the magical pointless point total up to make you guys happy?

It’s a place to find a different kind of PvP. Yea there are carebears there desperately trying to avoid PvP and they are the most fun to kill. On average though, the people that go there for PvP are at a much higher skill level than any other area of WvW. It’s fun, small scale, there is no retreat and there is a small reward at the end if you choose to go for it.

The idea that your side is loosing because 15 people are at the JP is just an excuse just like culling or stacking or Mesmer portals. Every side has to deal with it.

They should just introduce an openworld pvp-enabled map with jumping puzzles. There is certainly enough space on the map for it. But throwing PVE-related fodder into organized mass pvp is silly.

Anet wants you to participate in WvW to earn your legendary. The idea is you have “mastered” every aspect of the game. I will never get a legendary. Why? Mainly due to map completion and crafting. My highest crafting skill is 75. I don’t care how easy it is, I hate crafting. I will never do 100% map complete. I hate that too. I don’t complain about it because I understand it’s part of their design I just accept it and do what I like which is WvW. If I do decide to go for a legendary at some point, I do it knowing I will have to participate in parts of the game I find distasteful. Same goes for all of us.

You do realize that there are lot of us who reject the legendary path because LOL legendary weapons are glorified exotics prettied up?

Just because Anet wants players to do x, doesn’t mean x is worth doing for players. And Anet should rethink things like jumping puzzles in WvW.

Carebear things belong in Carebear land.

If WvW took place in the openworld it wouldn’t last because PVE people would complain.

I guess I’m confused so you don’t care about them for “farming mats” for your legendary then? If you don’t like PvP why are you in WvW at all?

If you are just saying it doesn’t belong in WvW then I simply disagree. It attracts smaller scale PvP in an open world environment. It’s a lot of fun for those that participate in it. It is completely optional after all.

IMO there should just be no queue to enter any BG. Let all come but then people would complain about imbalance. In the end the JP won’t be camped unless there are people to kill so it evens out for the servers and has hardly any effect on the overall WvW points for one server vs another if at all.

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

Stiv.1820:

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

The JP should be removed. Sure, you can get siege from it, but how many carebears go in there and never appear in WvW again? I farm and buy my own siege. Most people I know do that.

In times of the Queue it is annoying to see people asking for mesmers in the jp. It handicaps the people actually WvWing if there are lots of people in the jp.

The JP is part of WvW, maybe they should add a capture point at the chest location that ticks the magical pointless point total up to make you guys happy?

It’s a place to find a different kind of PvP. Yea there are carebears there desperately trying to avoid PvP and they are the most fun to kill. On average though, the people that go there for PvP are at a much higher skill level than any other area of WvW. It’s fun, small scale, there is no retreat and there is a small reward at the end if you choose to go for it.

The idea that your side is loosing because 15 people are at the JP is just an excuse just like culling or stacking or Mesmer portals. Every side has to deal with it.

They should just introduce an openworld pvp-enabled map with jumping puzzles. There is certainly enough space on the map for it. But throwing PVE-related fodder into organized mass pvp is silly.

Anet wants you to participate in WvW to earn your legendary. The idea is you have “mastered” every aspect of the game. I will never get a legendary. Why? Mainly due to map completion and crafting. My highest crafting skill is 75. I don’t care how easy it is, I hate crafting. I will never do 100% map complete. I hate that too. I don’t complain about it because I understand it’s part of their design I just accept it and do what I like which is WvW. If I do decide to go for a legendary at some point, I do it knowing I will have to participate in parts of the game I find distasteful. Same goes for all of us.

Zonghui.4570:

So i have been playing this game since beta/headstart. I can pve for hours on end in this game and not get bored. Off and on I would WvW but all I found myself doing was Zerging. If anyone has played DAoC back with the old frontiers you will know where I am getting at. Every once and a while I have no issue zerging, but on occasions i would like to be able to find 1v1, 2v2, even 5v5/10 fights but it seems whenever we (my guildmates and I) do this and take smaller camps/points to help out around the map that we always end up getting zerged. Does anyone else enjoy the smaller warfare as the Zerg/Zerg are taking the bigger targets? If so are there any “hot” spot (like Emain is DAoC) that this normally occurs?

My time in DAoC was much more memorable due to my set group running around, letting the zergs take over what they will, while handling the smaller groups/points. If this just doesn’t happen it is a shame.

Played DAOC for years and yes this is possible. It’s harder to get but possible. The biggest problem is when you do find these fights they are great and fun in that moment in time but when they are over, you realize you have no idea who you fought, can’t talk to them about builds or generate any sort of community/rivalry. That is the main thing that is missing from WvW and I really hope that changes (aside from a WvW progression system they have stated they are working on). It is a small thing that adds a lot of longevity to a game.

Back to your topic, if you are part of a very small group of people solo to 3 or so, I would recommend everyone be a Thief. This is due to their mobility and slipperyness, they are best suited to avoid the zerg. If you have 2 thieves and 1 of any other class, that one guy will be dying all the time to zergs.

If you are talking bigger groups of 4+ then it’s just about group comp. You want a couple thieves for shadow refuge a mesmer or two for hit and run portal tactics, a guardian because guardian and engie & necro for area denial and stuff like that. Groups of 4+ really have to use terrain and portal to avoid zergs.

Your methods are the way to do it. Go on the opposite side of the map from the commanders and take camps. They will attract people but always be ready to bail if the zerg shows up. Coordinated refuge and portal takes care of that pretty well. Another option is the regulate the Eternal jump puzzle. You will help a lot of people out and get a lot of small scale PvP.

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

The JP should be removed. Sure, you can get siege from it, but how many carebears go in there and never appear in WvW again? I farm and buy my own siege. Most people I know do that.

In times of the Queue it is annoying to see people asking for mesmers in the jp. It handicaps the people actually WvWing if there are lots of people in the jp.

The JP is part of WvW, maybe they should add a capture point at the chest location that ticks the magical pointless point total up to make you guys happy?

It’s a place to find a different kind of PvP. Yea there are carebears there desperately trying to avoid PvP and they are the most fun to kill. On average though, the people that go there for PvP are at a much higher skill level than any other area of WvW. It’s fun, small scale, there is no retreat and there is a small reward at the end if you choose to go for it.

The idea that your side is loosing because 15 people are at the JP is just an excuse just like culling or stacking or Mesmer portals. Every side has to deal with it.

varonecl.4265:

Stiv.1820:

The puzzle is a source of badges, items and siege for whoever “holds” it just like any other WvW point. It just doesn’t have circle. There are people who dedicate lots of time to hold puzzles for their side and fight against those holding it for their enemies. This is a very fun part of WvW PvP. People need to stop thinking it’s their right to open the chest. If they can’t get to it that’s on them and their server.

People who yell at you for asking for help are just elitist ahats.

I have asked the opposing players for help getting to them. That has helped in some cases. Your last comment is the heart of the problem. If the WvW were balanced then there would be no issue, but I can not inspire a server to choose to be active participants in WvW PvP, this means that the players who want to play WvW congregate on one server or another that is dominant in WvW and it gains more players as those who are looking to engage in PvE content and obtaining mats for endgame skins join those servers as well creating a lopsided loop.

This weekend I will probably join the opposing server just to farm the mats needed adding to their player base. I will not even attack anyone on the opposing side if possible because I do not care to engage in WvW PvP. After I get the mats I will relog onto the server where my guildies are and continue my play.

With that said is this the type of play WvW was supposed to inspire? Seems ridiculous to me.

What do you mean by farming mats needed for endgame skins in WvW? Are you talking about badges to buy the item for Legendary weapons? What other mat is WvW only? Are you talking about taking advantage of the out-manned buff or something?

If you are talking about badges then going to WvW and farming each JP with sometimes multiple characters per day just to avoid any sort of PvP is sort of going against Anet’s design philosophy and that could be why you are having a problem.

It’s my understanding that in order to acquire a legendary they have designed it so you have to participate in almost everything the PvE side of the game has to offer. Exploration, dungeons, events, crafting and WvW. You get badges even by running with a zerg. The idea is to get the legendary you participate in WvW on some level, not just farm the JP but that’s what a lot of people seem to be doing. That method in my opinion is just sort of counter to what Anet had in mind and that’s why there are so many complaints.

Galandil.9641:

Stiv.1820:

Exactly, making the game extremely boring.

Why, do you think that atm the metagame is enjoyable with all these bunker/burst build?

It seems to me that the conquest game type is pushing all the players to the extremes, bunkers on one side, and bursters on the other, with nothing really useful in the middle.

And this, to me, sounds really boring, not the contrary.

I think it’s exactly as you say, the conquest game type being the only one that’s the problem for sPvP. When holding a point is the main objective bunkers are going to show up. If anything burst is not on par with bunkers atm or we need more viable builds with buff sheering.

I don’t think removing powerful CC+burst is the answer though. The need for reaction based stun breakers is a big part of a skill based game. The people who can’t do it or refuse to slot them die and QQ. Just look at WvW players.

The puzzle is a source of badges, items and siege for whoever “holds” it just like any other WvW point. It just doesn’t have circle. There are people who dedicate lots of time to hold puzzles for their side and fight against those holding it for their enemies. This is a very fun part of WvW PvP. People need to stop thinking it’s their right to open the chest. If they can’t get to it that’s on them and their server.

People who yell at you for asking for help are just elitist ahats.

Shadow.3475:

As i wrote before they need to add a unstealth skill for some classes, say 1 class have a solo unstealth that last 20sec and 30sec cd and 1 class have a group unstealth that last for 15sec and 20sec cd, solo = only for you, group = for the group your in, no mater if you are next to other players or on difrent side off the map. The unstealth shouldnt be like in SW-TOR were the stealthed player poped out off stealth, it should be so the player/players see stealthed enemys without the stealthed player knowing do they see me or not.
And then a pot that you can buy that do solo unstealth for 30sec and 40sec CD.

What you are experiencing is a learn to play issue. My condolences.

Let’s give everyone a consumable that removes other profession defining abilities as well. Pot to remove ranger pets on 30 or 40 second cool-down, Pot to disarm a warrior, Pot to prevent mesmer clones, Pot to prevent Ele stance changes. So many great options for your pot idea!

Tulisin.6945:

HtFde.3856:

Is perma stealth really a feature of the game or is the 3 seconds of being exposed between stealths more the intention? Has there been an official statement from ANet regarding constructive perma stealth (i.e. not via culling issues but by design)?

The “revealed” debuff is a 3 second debuff that prevents restealthing only when attacking from stealth. So, by design, if you aren’t attacking anyone then you can chain together stealth effects to achieve permastealth. The only time this really becomes a balance issue is if you can actually do something useful by standing around in stealth not attacking anyone. The upcoming change should fix that issue.

They do intend you are able to chain stealth when not attacking but not forever. Anet has made constant changes to fix anything that allowed stealth for a prolonged time. They have capped it to 15s, put a 8sec CD on the stealth part of our fall dmg trait (which isn’t even needed anymore because of the cap).

The thing is a d/p build that achieves this is so bad in all other ways, I doubt you will see it after this change. It’s only productive as a glass cannon/back-stab type build that doesn’t have the required init regen. I wouldn’t be surprised if they still nerf it’s ability to perma stealth though. Hopefully not hitting the rest of us with collateral damage like the fall trait that still hasn’t been changed back.

Galandil.9641:

Is this really a whine thread about thieves stomping while stealthed? Which, as other people correctly pointed, CAN be interrupted by aoe, no-target interrupting skills even while stealthed?

I hope that you’ll never get stomped by a thief that uses Black Powder as a “sure” finisher, which is even way better than stealth-stomp (it negates guardian’s pulse, necro’s fear, etc.), or you’ll get out of your mind.

Should thieves whine if they get downed, use the #2 teleport and then get killed by a GS warrior that just presses the #2 HB key?

I don’t get all this hating regarding the thief profession, it’s not even remotely the OP class that people tend to think it is…

Thief is OP to bads because they don’t want to learn mechanics. They just want things to be simple.

You do understand that you can both damage and knockback/knockdown a stealthed player who is trying to finish you? You should know about how long a finisher is and always assume a thief you see stealth near you has started one and use your defensive ability at the right time. If you have other players around you, it just takes one knock-back from one of them to get you back up.

When comparing downed states, I really don’t see the problem when Eles get a 1000 range immunity bubble around all keeps and safety doors since they can mist form to safety and res themselves up.

ZLE.8293:

Sithaco.4673:

You know what the real problem with these builds that people aren’t properly explaining. It isn’t the damage it causes, because that is countered by the low health/armor the glass cannon has. It is the fact that some of these builds are nearly impossible to counter.

The real problem is that the most people don’t want such burst builds to exist in a first place.Counterable or not.They just want it to be erased,so they could safely remove the stunbreakers to free a UI spot for the next offensive skill/signet.

Exactly, making the game extremely boring.

Killing downed thieves follows a pretty simple flow.

1. Do you have an instant teleport ability that is off cool-down? —-> Stomp
2. Are you able to start the stomp immediately after the Thief went down? —-> Stomp
3. Else simply DPS the thief through the port and manually DPS the area where they stealth.

Situation 1 lets you follow the Thief while doing your stomping animation and completing the stomp on the first try

2 allows you to readjust after they teleport and even if they wait until the last second, you will complete the 2nd stomp before their stealth comes off cool-down.

3 is the best way to deal with a downed thief without wasting time if the other two options aren’t available.

Thief (and maybe D/D Ele arguably) is the best “pubstomping” profession out there. WvW is chalk full of bad players who are too busy complaining to learn the other classes in order to counter.

If you know mechanics and what your enemy can do, Thieves (any prof really) are fairly balanced. If you don’t understand, Thieves are invisible, magical, pwnmonsters that your mommy told you didn’t exist.

First buy an entire set of zerker armor/accessories/weapons masterwork/green. It’s hardly worse than rares.

Now just do whatever you like. WvW/FoTM/whatever. Each run of FoTM can net you 60s-1g if you sell everything. I just sell rares straight up. Don’t bother gambling. You will get enough cash for an exotic every 2 days or so with very casual play almost no matter what you do unless you constantly die in WvW then don’t do that for money.

Ele is on top for supply running. They are by far the fastest profession, not from perma swift either. I chased a d/d ele around for quite a while last night and as a highly mobile thief, there was zero chance of catching him.

Aeden.5896:

Q: Will thieves still get event credit for capturing nodes if they happen to be in stealth on the completion “tick?”

I assumed that was the reason stealth worked the way it did in WvW.

Yes, I’ve left a camp after fighting a little while and gotten a gold half way across the map when it finally gets taken.

FireRunner.9481:

Thief stealth skills are EXTREMELY overpowered. It is ridiculous one class has this much power over all over classes. I have seen thief and thief go stealth 3 times in a row countless times. They need to do something such as:

1. Add longer timer to being able to re-stealth.
2. Remove stealth if player is damaged.
3. Not allow player to move if in stealth mode.

As of right now thieves are almost gods in PvP. It’s so ridiculous it’s stupid.

Hallmark post of a terrible player. You don’t understand the class so you can’t fight it. Learn the class so you don’t make these posts that make you look like a QQing zergling.

Flames aside, I highly recommend you play the Thief to level 30 or so. It doesn’t take long and will do wonders for your understanding of the mechanics. Yes, the theif class mechanics are so different than all others that it requires this little extra effort to combat them. Doing this for all classes never hurts your ability to PvP though.

Ermergerd we don’t have to see this forum clogged with these threads anymore!

I use P/D – D/D condition with lots of vit and toughness thrown in. 10/0/30/30/0. I don’t even move a single trait around for PvE and do really well. ~21K health and ~2500 armor you aren’t squishy at all. Only way it’s not useful is if you have lots of bleed players in your PvE team and are always at 25 cap.

Please stop taking this OP seriously. He’s lying about one of two things. Either that picture is way back before Heartseeker nerf or he is not “decked out” in PvP gear which I take to mean WvW (p/v/t) gear. Maybe he is talking about sPvP in offensive gear, either way that damage would only happen pre nerf or from a massive power over armor ratio over 1.0 where the attacker is getting a huge dmg bonus.

I recently beat 2 thieves and a ranger 3 on 1 all guilded in WvW and as soon as the Thieves saw me they both hit haste and Heartseeker spammed. They had zero chance to win because it’s so easy to avoid and counter. Any theif that does any sort of dmg with Heartseeker has ~13K health.

The OP is bad, just bad. He needs to learn to dodge, learn to trait right, learn to manage cool-downs probably all of the above.

bettadenu.5483:

DanH.5879:

+1 to the op that opened the thread, finally someone who cares !

Yes i’m so glad that we finally get some attention! To be honest I was starting to feel left out as a Thief, good to see someone caring about our profession.

You guys realize this is the thread they are pointing everyone to who is calling for Thief nerfs right? This is the new dumping ground for all Thief QQ.

I guess it’s a good thing since the WvW forums are just full of level 30s getting 3 shot by thieves and complaining they are OP, stealth = invulnerability and there is no way to stop a stealth stomp.

When I first got to 80 I bought Runes of Adventurer because they had a 100% endurance on heal ability. That got nerfed to 50% the next patch. A couple weeks ago I saved up 5 gold to buy the guild back slot and now you can get the same one for 8s from Black Lion because they drop like candy in FOTM.

Dems the breaks. You gambled and lost.

How old is that screenshot? I don’t even see how that’s possible anymore but even if it was, how do you get hit by 3 heartsekers in a row really?

All I’m going to say is this is all L2P issues. Elementalists have everything they need to destroy or fight to a draw every viable thief build in d/d alone.

Jack of Tears.9458:

Stiv.1820:

You are almost required to play a Thief to understand their mechanics since their initiative system and stealth is so drastically different than all other professions.

But please god don’t change this! Don’t homogenize us to make us “easier to understand”! The draw of the Thief class is that we’re mechanically different and require a new set of skills to play … you take that away and you might as well delete the class.

Not sure if you thought I was advocating for that to change but just in case, I’m definitely not. Just pointing out that we take the most effort to learn to counter.

The Thief is tricky to balance. Right now they are fairly balanced at the high end. If you run into skilled players they can stand up to a Thief 1 on 1 and will know how to counter.

The masses in WvW and hot join sPvP are by a huge majority unskilled and don’t have knowledge of game mechanics. Thieves mop up (pubstomp) these people like crazy due to the fact they require the most understanding of mechanistic to counter. You are almost required to play a Thief to understand their mechanics since their initiative system and stealth is so drastically different than all other professions.

Anet has to choose to just deal with all the QQ and nerf calls in order to keep Thieves balanced for the higher skill/knowledge end of PvP or they give in and nerf them for the masses making them useless for high end PvP.

I personally hope Anet continues to allow other professions to have what they need to counter Thieves but faults the players for not using them correctly instead of just pointing to the Thief as OP.

So far the Thief changes and some developer comments in the sPvP forums have supported this idea of holding players accountable and not letting them get away with generalized Nerf whine/pressure translating to code changes to appease the masses.

edit: pretty much same thoughts as LiuliRenai above..

I have vit on every gear piece as well and have almost 21K HP. I thought Thieves were the lowest HP pool. How do you have such low health if you have vit on all gear? Even without any dodging or stun breaks I could survive that Alpha with 21Khp and 2500 armor.

I haven’t done number crunching but I’m pretty sure toughness would be better than healing power for longer duration fights. I guess you could have both but I prefer vit and toughness so that I can survive BS thieves, nade egnies, HUNDURD BURRRRDS and the like.